Top5 Elements of a Persuasive Story

Josh Tobiessen, founder of Shared Story Consulting and a New York Times "Critics Pick" playwright, sat down with Tara Thurber to share his experience and tips for developing a persuasive story.

Together, Tara and Josh explore the importance of character development, overall objective and the details required to produce an effective story that urges readers to take action.

Top5 Elements of a Persuasive Story

1. Character
2. Objective
3. Action
4. Stakes
5. Details

Speaker Bio: For two decades Josh Tobiessen been engaging audiences as a playwright and sharing the power of storytelling as workshop leader. As a playwright, his work has been seen across the country, and twice named a “Critics Pick” by the New York Times. As an instructor, he’s led classes and workshops at universities and theaters and, with Shared Story Consulting, he has taught business storytelling skills to a variety of groups including entrepreneurs developing pitches, interns hoping to build relationships at work, nonprofit boards hoping to increase engagement with their organization.  

Transcript

Tara Thurber: 0:05

Hey everyone, welcome back to Top5 brought to you by DefineTalent. We are a results driven service working with clients to connect them with quality talent as well as working to make an impact within the recruiting industry. We talk straight about today's professional world with real world professionals, experts in recruitment, job seekers and business owners alike. Have a question for us. Send it in and you might spur our next conversation. I'm Tara Thurber, co founder and director of talent partnerships a DefinedTalent. And joining me today is Josh Tobiessen, founder of Shared Story Consulting. Hey, Josh, how are you today?

Josh Tobiessen: 0:47

I'm great. Thanks for having me here.

Tara Thurber: 0:49

Awesome, super glad to have you on. I'd love for you.

Josh Tobiessen: 0:52

Good to be here.

Tara Thurber: 0:53

Thank you so much. I'd love for you to just introduce yourself and tell the audience a bit about how you started Shared Story Consulting, and what your mission is.

Josh Tobiessen: 1:03

Yeah, great. I have a theatre background. That's where I started, I started out writing and performing in plays when I was living in Galway, Ireland. And we would be doing performances and spaces so small, I could actually reach out and touch the audience. So that made connecting with the audience feel very urgent, but also very rewarding when it worked well. So since then, I've come back to the States, obviously, I've had plays that I've written that have been published and produced across the country. But I've always been amazed by the power of good stories to connect with an audience. And I love sharing that power with others. So I taught playwriting for a very long time. But I started shared story consulting, as a way of using those storytelling skills to help people and organizations build the relationships, they need to thrive, by helping them talk about what they do in a way that, you know, makes them care that makes other people care. Yeah, absolutely.

Tara Thurber: 1:52

Right. And makes other people listen and pay attention too, which is so important. You know, and I feel We were coming here with your Top5 Elements of that when I talk to so many candidates, so many clients, they have a tough time talking about themselves, they have a tough time bringing the importance of what they want to share to the forefront. So I'm super excited to dive in a little bit. a Persuasive Story. So let's talk about those top five elements.

Josh Tobiessen: 2:27

Sure, let's get into it. Well, okay, first, there's character, I think that without character, you don't have a story, you just have a grocery list or whatever it is.

Tara Thurber: 2:35

Right (laughs).

Josh Tobiessen: 2:35

And so the characters can be, you know, it's often I have people focusing on themselves, I have people focusing on their audience, because their audiences another key character, but really a character in your story could be anyone who's affected by the work that you do any of those stakeholders, that's very important. The second element is objective. Because as you were saying, with the people that you've been working with, if you're not able to clearly talk about who you are and what you're trying to accomplish, people won't know how to help you. So you're just going to kind of be rattling off to no avail, right?

Tara Thurber: 3:05

Yeah (laughs).

Josh Tobiessen: 3:06

The third element is action. Because, as they say, actions speak louder than words. So what have you done that proves your character? What have you done that proves what you do. So obviously, you're going to use words to tell people that but telling people what those actions are, that prove who you are, I think he's very effective at kind of building trust with your audience. So element number four is stakes, because you can be doing the most important work out there in the most effective way possible. But if you can't make people care about what you're doing, you're not going to build those relationships, you're not going to be able to get ahead. And then the fifth element that I think is important that kind of covers is over everything else, as well as the details, it's really important to give the audience a chance to imagine themselves in your story. And you do that by giving them details that are memorable, that allow them to come into the story.

Tara Thurber: 3:57

I love all of these elements. And I feel, example, working with candidates that are trying to write a marketing pitch, or a summary of who they are, the character, the objective, the action, the stakes, the details, all of these are super, super important to these individuals, for them to allow themselves to tell that story, right? I would love it if you could elaborate a little bit more on the importance of solid character development when you're crafting a story.

Josh Tobiessen: 4:34

Yeah, I think that that's so important. And I think that we all have seen stories with bad character development (laughs).

Tara Thurber: 4:40

Right (laughs).

Josh Tobiessen: 4:40

They just don't hold us you know, the stories that we love watching whether it's through TV, film books, or whatever. We love that because we really love the characters within that you understand them. You know, we feel like we know them well. So those are so important because the characters are the audience's entry point in your story essentially. Right. Because Story has the power, has the ability to motivate and inspire people because it connects with people's emotions that connects to them on an emotional level. But if you don't have characters that the audience can understand, then the audience won't be able to use their imagination and put themselves in that story and you know, have the effect of those emotions. So two great things that I think of when you're thinking about characters, two great ways to connect, I think are understanding a character's values and a character's background. So that's, in other words, what they care about, and essentially why they care about that. If you keep these elements in mind, you connect with people on an emotional level, because you get them to understand that if you get three stars out there, so if you keep those elements in mind, people have the ability, as I said, to connect on that emotional level, because they use their imagination, and then they're in the story. They're sort of a part of the story. They're helping you write this story in the way. So yeah, that's essentially that's what it's there.

Tara Thurber: 5:58

That's awesome.

Josh Tobiessen: 5:59

It's understandable characters that allow you to imagine yourself in that story, and through your imagination, through using your imagination, you feel those emotions, and you feel the power of that story.

Tara Thurber: 6:09

Wow. And then speaking of that feeling on top of it, how we speak, and what we say is super important, especially when telling a story, right? How do you ensure that the dialogue is compelling, effective and gets the point across outside of the solid character development? Now we've got dialogue, how can you make sure you get that point across thoroughly?

Josh Tobiessen: 6:37

Yeah, I think when you're, when you're writing, I think it's really important to be clear, to be specific. Take the time to make the story short, you know, there's a quote like, I would have written something shorter, if I had more time (laughs). Take that time to you know not be boring and

Tara Thurber: 6:50

Right (laughs). not repeat yourself. And then, as I said, the specific is important. So being specific about the details, the details are going to be what people remember about your story. And that's going to activate their imagination. So that's important. But remember, of course, not to overload them with those specific details, because then you're, falling afoul of the the first rule there. But another thing I think is really important is that you're not going to write it perfectly the first time, you're not just going to sit down there and write the perfect story, you have to keep practicing, you have to talk to people, you have to come up with some ideas and share them with other people, people that it's safe to share them with, maybe not the highest stakes clients that you have there (laughs). Right (laughs).

Josh Tobiessen: 7:35

But the more you tell your story, the more you share your story, the better you get at it, the better you are at seeing what's working, seeing when people are checking their watches, or looking off, checking their phones. And I think that's a great way to make sure that you're gonna have an impact by essentially trying it out through trial and error.

Tara Thurber: 7:51

Right. It's almost like it begins to evolve. Or it can evolve over time through who you're speaking to who you're sharing it with.

Josh Tobiessen: 8:01

Yeah.

Tara Thurber: 8:02

Bringing in different insight to then go back to it and evolve it even more.

Josh Tobiessen: 8:07

Yeah, and ensuring that you're staying with your theme through the entire story as well. I think that helps you keep from going off on tangents. So I like to think about, if you think about what your values are, what your company's values are having everything to connect to that. So who you are, what your values are inform what you want, what your mission or objectives are. And those inform your actions. And your actions are all informed by the stakes are the things that you care about. So just making sure there's that connection throughout all of those elements, I think is important to your story. And then of course, you mentioned how do you get your point across? Well, I think that oftentimes, we just want to tell people what the point of the story is.

Tara Thurber: 8:45

Right (laughs) Yup.

Josh Tobiessen: 8:46

This is this. I want you to do this. The point of this story is you need to move 10 feet over in that direction. So do it when I think it's almost much more effective to let people get there on their own. So if you say you're sitting on a train track, I can hear the whistle blowing, they're gonna get up and move 10 feet over. Whereas if you just tell them to move out of the way, they might figure out why they shouldn't, they might find some resistance. But if you allow them to kind of see the facts, and come to that conclusion on their own, that's more powerful for them, because that's gonna motivate them more and they're gonna feel like they're a part of that solution. They're gonna have some buy in.

Tara Thurber: 9:26

Wow. And then I love the whole buy in aspect too, because it's bringing the viewer the listener into the story, and allowing them to be part of it. And that buy in is super important. Because I think without that buy-in you've got a loss story.

Josh Tobiessen: 9:46

Yeah, absolutely.

Tara Thurber: 9:46

To somebody else's ears, right? Or somebody else's eyes depending on if it's written or digital or verbal.

Josh Tobiessen: 9:54

I really think the goal I mean, I love storytelling and I love stories, but I really think the goal of storytelling is to stop telling a story and get into a conversation. So the more you can bring them into that, the more you can have them already bringing elements of themselves into your story.

Tara Thurber: 10:08

Right.

Josh Tobiessen: 10:08

I think the easier it is to jump into that conversation.

Tara Thurber: 10:12

Love that kind of hopping all the way to the end... Let's look at endings, you know endings can

Josh Tobiessen: 10:17

(laughs) make or break a story. How can one ensure an impactful ending that drives the point home, makes the listener think or take action. And I feel that everybody wants their listener, when they're done to think about it further, not just close the book or watch the story, listen to the story and then walk away. There's that that continuous connection that I feel any person would want their story to evolve and move forward with. So howvdo you ensure that the endings are impactful? Yeah I think that that really leads to the points the difference between an entertaining story and persuasive story or a story that you want to tell them the

Tara Thurber: 11:18

Right. business world. Right.

Josh Tobiessen: 11:18

Because with an entertaining story, you have a The end of your story is actually an invitation lot of the same elements, you want to keep all everything related to your theme, you have a character who wants something, and by the end of that they either get that or they don't. And if you like your character, and you care about their objective, you're going to follow that story to see whether they get that or not. And if you're watching a movie, you want them to get that and have that satisfying ending at the end. But in a persuasive story, or a business story, it's, I think the key is you actually don't really give an ending to the story. for your other for your audience to join you and complete that story with you. So thinking about how you can really show the stakes, how you can show how interesting the characters are, how important the work is, but then implying that this story isn't going to finish until the two of you work together to finish it and to have that completion. So being able to present them with an image of what the conclusion might be like if they joined, I think is important. And having that be something that you know that your audience is going to appreciate. So you really have to know your audience, I think to get that to work.

Tara Thurber: 12:27

Well. And that makes sense too, when I think about a business story, you know, you want to know your ideal client profile. And you want to know all of these things prior to putting your story out there. And then really leaving it open ended and putting that call to action. So what do you want that listener to do once you tell that story? And if that person clicks on a button and says I want to schedule a call today, it's almost like there's a win right there for the story that's been told in the business world, right?

Josh Tobiessen: 13:03

Yeah, absolutely. And I think when you think about the stories that we watch, that we stream on Netflix, or whatever Disney+.

Tara Thurber: 13:12

Right.

Josh Tobiessen: 13:12

They they want you to binge watch things, right. So they're always having a cliffhanger. And then they don't end their episodes, because they know that they want you to keep going, they want you to click Next episode, you know, in the business world, you want them people to click Make an appointment or something like that.

Tara Thurber: 13:28

Yeah (laughs).

Josh Tobiessen: 13:29

So that's why you have to imply what the ending could be, how awesome it could be for everyone involved, but then not take it all the way there until you have the other person on your team.

Tara Thurber: 13:43

Very awesome. Josh, it's super interesting. When I think about the business world and all the different stories that really happen. It's the sales pitch. It's the investor donor appeal, it's a motivational speeches that one gives, and making an impact and having that call to action is really the whole point of somebody putting that information out there. Right. It's drawing the audience back to you. I really love all of these elements. I think that each one of these elements really plays an important role in so many different worlds when creating stories. It's very interesting to see how it kind of fits into the professional storytelling boxes, especially when it comes to the audience and it comes to the work that you're doing and the actions and the why it's like that who, what, when, where, why. Coming through your story.

Josh Tobiessen: 14:46

And it works in different ways to I mean.

Tara Thurber: 14:48

Yeah,.

Josh Tobiessen: 14:49

I do workshops for sort of team building story skill workshops for organizations that want their people to understand their mission and become aligned with their mission. So I've done workshops opts for onboarding interns who want to build stories that will help them meet mentors or collaborators. I've done workshops for nonprofit board members who want to get better stories so that they can re-engage people and or engage people more with their organization. And then for small organizations, I also just help them with their story to sharpen it into a tool that they can use to build the relationships that they need to thrive. You know?

Tara Thurber: 15:25

That's so awesome, Josh, and I love that you're doing that as workshops, you're going into the large and small businesses, what would you say the impact is, would you say there's a bigger impact between you having doing workshops with smaller teams versus larger teams?

Josh Tobiessen: 15:46

Yeah, I think that the value of doing it with a smaller team is that there's two values in the workshop. One is that you learn story skills. And in the workshops, I walk you through how to tell a story that is going to be focused on something specific that that workshop that the people in that workshop are going to need stories for. But the secondary use of those workshops is really the team building element of it. So the more we can hear other people's stories, the more you understand why other people are a part of that organization, the more you understand their values, their background, and why they care about the work that they're doing. And that builds trust in that team. So you see that through that, there's more innovation, there's more collaboration, there's more fun at work. And there's more, as I said, trust between the people that are working together.

Tara Thurber: 16:37

And I just on a slight tangent, I love the fact too, that you're working with individuals to tell that internal story and branding. I mean, that's it, that's company branding right there that can be so important for candidates that are out there looking for a job. I know so many people that will do research on companies, and they'll want to know, what's the culture like? What's, the company "story" so to speak, right? But then you also can flip that switch and be able to utilize the story based on the mission and what you're putting out there for your buyers, your audience, you know, it's two different audiences essentially.

Josh Tobiessen: 17:25

Yeah, absolutely.

Tara Thurber: 17:26

I love that you're kind of touching base on.

Josh Tobiessen: 17:29

Yeah, it's putting that message out there into the world. But it's also focusing on that message yourself. Because that can act as an internal compass for yourself, your business, which helps streamline all the actions that you take, you know, what's worthy of your time, and effort and what isn't, you know?

Tara Thurber: 17:45

Wonderful. So, Josh, I do have one last question for you. It's a fun one here. Can you share a favorite story you've either written or read as a child that left an impact on you throughout your life?

Josh Tobiessen: 18:02

I think it's interesting that the story that comes to mind is actually a book that I used to read that my dad recently gave to me for to give to my kids. So it's a Mysterious Tadpole, by Stephen Kellogg. And I don't know if you know this story, but a kid is given a small tadpole by his uncle who lives in Scotland, and he's trying to raise it and ends up it's not a Frog. It's not turning into a frog. Now he's growing bigger and bigger and bigger. And that, you know, it's in the bathtub, it's eventually sneak into a swimming pool. And then they have to figure out how they're

Tara Thurber: 18:33

(laughs) going to keep it essentially keep it to keep it from going to a zoo or something like that. But whenever I think of that, I just always think we take responsibility for these things in our lives, and we have no idea what they're going to turn out, you know, it starts out small, and then it just starts growing. And this kid in the story just keeps loving this creature as it grows bigger and bigger, and just figures out how to make it work. And never gives up on it. So I don't know if that's an idea, or if it's a business that you start or whatever that is. Right.

Josh Tobiessen: 19:04

I think that humans have a great capacity for adapting and to that situation that you know, of course, if you had at the beginning of the story, if someone had been to that kid, hey, do you want this giant monster?

Tara Thurber: 19:15

Right! (laughs)

Josh Tobiessen: 19:15

Probably wouldn't have said "yes."

Tara Thurber: 19:18

That's awesome. I love that story. I'm gonna have to look that book up. I feel that that would be a good one for my girls to my girls night to read together. Yeah,

Josh Tobiessen: 19:25

it's it's fun. And there's there's great illustrations, too, which is really fun.

Tara Thurber: 19:30

Cool. Well, listen, Josh, thank you so very much for joining us today. It was really a pleasure having you sharing your top five elements of a persuasive story. I would love to also get your information out there to the audience. So when we post this, we'll make sure to make sure to share your LinkedIn profile, your website, anything else that you want to send to me, we'll put out there and I'm excited to get this out there to everybody. Sounds great. It's been fun. Awesome thanks Josh Have a great day

Josh Tobiessen: 20:02

Thanks, Tara, bye.

Tara Thurber: 20:04

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