Brett managed to change my mind on a few things today.
In this episode we discuss:
[0:00:01] George Reid: Welcome to us. Always Day One. My name is George Reid, a former Amazonian turned amazon consultant. Each week on the podcast you're going to hear industry experts, brand owners and amazon employees share their answers to the basic yet fundamental questions you should be asking yourself bang your amazon business now, let's jump in. Hello ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of It's always Day Wrong. Uh Always day wrong, wow! Great. Start, always day one. Today I've got Brett joining me to talk a little bit about amazon Brett, trying to give us that 10 22nd background on yourself.
[0:00:35] Brett Bohannon: Yeah, I guess it's always day wrong with me. All right. Um A little background about myself, I started in the amazon space, actually created my own um Amazon brand with my wife back in 2016, mid 2016, right before Review Gate in October 2016. Um then sold it in 2018, created my own boutique agency um got bought out and was with a large digital marketing firm up until like the height of Covid got burned out and now doing my own thing with brands. So that's me in a nutshell.
[0:01:16] George Reid: Good man. I didn't know about the amazon brand back in the day. You were there kind of a really nice period then I imagine.
[0:01:23] Brett Bohannon: Yeah. Yeah it was a great period, it was, I mean I'll spare like a long back story but I think we just had our second care first kid and um I was traveling a bunch and my wife's like my wife's best friend's boyfriend at the time was like a yogi amazon ebay seller and he kind of, he kind of gave me a couple tidbits and there's one thing that they said to me, they're like if it doesn't work just sell it for what you bought it for and tried in and we did, our first product was like a hit. Pretty awesome.
[0:01:57] George Reid: Yeah, I love those are the stories I know a friend of mine Ben, he kind of launched that similar to the time. Um and then I guess the Glory Days are winding down a little bit from there, it's not quite as easy now, but we're getting some strategies. So to kick things off me, what can brands we're doing this year onwards to create sustainable success?
[0:02:19] Brett Bohannon: That's a good question. Um Man, there's there's times I I always like to to really lay it down the foundations um because if you're not laying that foundation you don't have much to work on. Um So I think that's super important and I think a lot of brands don't really understand that, especially the big ones. I see, I see it all the time where they just paste their, you know, their title and bullet points from their website that the Shop of fire or whatever on to amazon and that's it. Um there's been tons of brands that I've worked with in the past on vendor central that are, that are just like that, they've given it to someone at amazon years and years ago and then it was just the exact same thing. So I think foundations is key. Um obviously I think that's becoming more prevalent with brands these days. I think from there there's just tons to do, but I think one of the biggest things is is like a regeneration and try to connect the two spheres of e commerce and amazon into one and and working off of that obviously with in terms of services within amazon, but I think, I think that's kind of the next big thing for brands to do on amazon
[0:03:39] George Reid: And what would your foundations typically consist of them? It was quite a broad, broad topic that what does that look like when you break it down?
[0:03:47] Brett Bohannon: Yeah, I mean it's a super broad topic, but essentially what it is, it's just a fully optimised and this thing um title, bullet points, pictures, videos, um A plus content description back end, I think back end is actually becoming more and more important, um and you can just see that with, you know, all the amazon consultants out there, posting things on linkedin about new features that are coming up on the front end and usually those are all pulled in from the back end. So any attributes within the back end I think should always be filled out that can be, you know, uh you know, equate to what your product is.
[0:04:28] George Reid: Yeah, we're talking about those flat files, right, The endless columns that are available to you to actually study them no matter what category. Because it's going to vary from categories. Category.
[0:04:39] Brett Bohannon: Yeah, exactly. I mean not every single attributes going to work because, you know, the subcategory flat files are going to be the same as other subcategory flat files within that same category. So the browse node is super important to look at and to figure out, you know, obviously, you know, you're not going to have a battery, like on your shampoo product, you know, so it's it's just I just want to make sure that it's that it's attributable to your product and actually put that detail in there. Um it's only going to help in the long run and help altogether.
[0:05:14] George Reid: And when you look at things like titles now, how do you typically have to structure them? I've always personally thought of going, it's the first five keywords to have a big impact and then look to kind of truncated a little bit. What's your thoughts around that now? Because it seems to move every six months?
[0:05:32] Brett Bohannon: Yeah, that's a that's a great question. I've I've been been in the game for the amount of years, I've tried a bunch of different things. I personally like the brand name and then kind of the main keyword or main search term phrase, exact phrase kind of broad match kind of right after it. Especially like that mostly because of mobile and I think that's still important and I think sometimes it gets looked over is like I think our mobile, it's like 67, maybe the like characters that you actually see on the mobile device and that could have that can change per category. But if you just think about what you're going to see and if you see a brand name with like the main search term in the front or mobile, I think that's super important for click through it. Um So I think, you know, I think that's a good structure, you know, they changed it so much over the years and you know, without um you know, I don't even know the names of the underneath the delete button, I don't even know, shift underneath that one. They changed it where you can't use certain things and whatnot. I mean I've just updated the title for a brand where you could and they didn't do anything about it. So it's just kind of like keeping up your brass of like some of those best practices and admitting things that maybe don't make sense. Now, I know one of the biggest things is like title mate. Um I think the best thing to do these days is just run a test. Now that amazon allows you to run a test, run a test for different brands and I'll always say just look at you, like look at the first page of the, of the search term results and find out what other people are doing it. You know, I think titles are super important. I think the more juice you can have, your titles are better.
[0:07:20] George Reid: You mentioned that slamming that brand name in the front and in some categories your that's enforced. However, saying that I've always had this kind of thought of if your brand name doesn't really mean anything, if you're not a brand yet, what I said brand, but recognize that people are aware of you in the category, Does it hold any value to put that in, given that it's going to appear on the list in any way and no one's gonna know who that brand is. So my argument against it would be kind of, no one knows what the brand is, it's got no keyword relevance in a primary keyword spot. Do you always want to include it or?
[0:08:01] Brett Bohannon: So I'll play Devil's advocate on that one. I still think yes. Mostly because if you're going to be doing advertising, if you're going to be doing all those things within amazon that are going to create more of a brand awareness play, then I think it's super important to have it on there because it's just straight depressions. So if that person keeps on seeing that brand name, you know, in a sponsored display on the side or underneath, you know, bullet points on another listing or or or something else, it might get ingrained into their brain. So I'd say yes, but at the same time, I agree with you. If you're doing sponsored display advertising, if you're doing advertising to a, you know, top of the funnel audience that are cold, that don't doesn't know your brain yet, then you're going to get into their mind that brand name is going to be on their mind, they're gonna keep seeing that product placement wherever it may be, within amazon or off of amazon and it's going to be in the mind, but at the same time, yes. You know, they don't know it yet, but if you think long term, I think that's that's the key benefit of having a brand name in the beginning of the titles.
[0:09:12] George Reid: Yeah, admittedly, you know, you've changed my thought process a little bit on that because I was always, that is a waste of space. But now you pitched it like, that does make a lot more sense to go. We're utilizing these ads too. Stay front of mind for many consumers and many consumers aren't necessarily gonna buy today. Maybe they're gonna buy in 123 weeks. They've already seen an ad, they've seen the colours of your brand, they've seen whatever, and then they've seen that brand name, they're making those kind of associations consciously, which are going to come back. Maybe it's in the shop, they see you and it's brilliant or they see your facebook card brilliant or it's um, if it's on amazon again, you know, there's already kind of registered a bit of value within them. Yeah. Change your mind on that one power,
[0:10:02] Brett Bohannon: I guess. I'm glad I can do that.
[0:10:07] George Reid: I about next question. What can brands be doing to drive higher lifetime value on amazon?
[0:10:15] Brett Bohannon: Great question. Um I really liked that question because as I stated, I think that's you know, I've always said like the e commerce ecosystem um and amazon playing a huge role or not, I mean everyone knows numbers, I don't know off the top of my head, but amazon plays a big role and it's, I think it's just continues to play a big role. So you know obviously amazon doesn't want you to grab any of your customers data or anything. I mean they proven that with you know the orders and not able to see information from the orders a couple years back or a year back or so um and then just recently, you know taken away that fulfillment report with all the, with all the order information. So I think the best thing to do is is to provide extreme value for when that person gets the product on their doorstep. Um and that is branding alone. I mean, I always say like, the first impression is huge because they're gonna open that box, so they're going to see your product. Like we, so my product that I used to sell these bracelets, they're they're essential oil, jewelry bracelets. And it's, you know, back in that day, it was like, I think it was like the second or third product like that on amazon. Um and it just blew up. But what we did was we always put it in a burlap bag because he was super boho and super cheek, or cute as my wife would say, and it and it created that good impression. So they liked it, you know, and then kind of after that is is some sort of insert, of course you want it to be, you know, T. O. S comply a ble um there's tons of them out there and I think you've seen them. I've seen them. There's tons of examples that are aren't and that are absolutely ridiculous. You can actually tell the ones that are, you know, straight from chinese sellers and other ones that are a little bit more creative. But if you have it where those are completely T. O. S. You know, compatible, comply double whatever that that can help with L. T. V. Um and if you do it in a good way, then it can even help even further with L. T. V. Where you can get creative with it again, but you got to be T. O. S. Compatible or comply double.
[0:12:39] George Reid: What are some of the better things you can be putting on those inserts now which are comply a bill but also um they create a bit of excitement. They encourage that uses to take action. What have, what have you seen in your side?
[0:12:55] Brett Bohannon: Yeah. I've seen a lot of things I've seen is like, hey, you know, um you know I've done this, I'm doing this with some brands like join our V. I. P. List. I think that that's a huge thing that's going around now. It's actually been around forever. Um But I think it's just getting a little bit more juice. Um When I say forever my my, you know, my tenure of being in an amazon space, but it's getting a little bit more juice nowadays where people, you know, it's like, hey come to our V. I. P. Group and I think you posted about this a couple times too, haven't you?
[0:13:30] George Reid: Yeah, discuss them.
[0:13:32] Brett Bohannon: Yeah. I think it's I think it's a fantastic strategy and opportunity to get customer feedback continuously. You get their information, their email address, and then you follow them into a group, but then you also have their email address to nurture them for other opportunities on amazon. So directive always back to amazon and get them back there to buy more products and buy more products and then you can segment them however much. I mean Bannon chat does a really good job of of being able to segment customers and put them through funnels and all kinds of good stuff. So I think I think that's a crucial uh you know, role and you know, I definitely top the, you know, the group and the V. I. P. Aspect of it.
[0:14:18] George Reid: How do you so with that, are you looking to encourage many chat still? I've kind of personally gone off a little bit in the last six months just because of how they've put all these restrictions on you. Now. I'm more arguing the point that get them into something like a facebook group may be obtained an email in there, um because you can get such visibility With a Facebook group in comparisons, funny, normal post, you know, some of the ones in the Amazon creatives, like 80 of people and groups here, you're not gonna get that anywhere else. Would it make more sense to drive them to a facebook group where you've created that community rather than too many chat where you can then direct into a group, but you're getting these additional points, um, and maybe a bit of friction and then you don't own the data anyway. Like these subscribers has suddenly become a lot less valuable in my opinion.
[0:15:14] Brett Bohannon: Yeah, that's a that's a great point. I think, I think it depends on kind of the strategy, um, and your overall business plan with them. Um because I know facebook groups can be similar where you don't actually think groups are a little bit easier. I'm not too familiar with facebook groups. My wife is like the one that facebook guru, but you know, once once you posted a group, most of them see if there might be some algorithm changes where they might not see it. What I like about manny chat is, I think there's a lot of opportunity to, you can email and text within manage chat. I've used the email future within manny chat and actually had a tremendous open rate um and the text is even better. I mean the open rate for text is even better. So I think that's where it plays into the fact that you can nurture them within that. I think landing pages are also going to start making a come back to. It used to be you know that big squeeze page they used to be able to do back in the day. I think that's a good opportunity to to kind of get that initial um you know, data of the customer and then direct them to manage chat or take them outside and manage chat and put them through like an email funnel. I honestly I just think it's endless. And you just kind of going to have to keep trying.
[0:16:32] George Reid: Yeah, it's just an experimentation. I mean, would you be putting an experimenting with different inserts and go what we're gonna do? 500 of these. 500 of these, some go too many shots, some go directly to Facebook, some go directly to wherever and utilizing Q. R. Codes I guess to see how many are getting scanned Or how many results are getting hitting that particular page. So you know of those 500 300 did well and came through too many chat when they saw that as an option 300 Came back to Facebook where there's only 100 decided to go through to the landing page to learn about X. Y. Zed. And I guess you then measuring a little bit um b. I I agree of landing pages. Maga Simoni Hoffman is I've always liked the idea of reducing the number of clicks. Someone has to do. So if you're sending them to extend to why then to zed? Is that the best customer experience? Perhaps not? And at what point you able to offer value of each of those X. Y. Zed? If you're not offering value? Is it just a little bit of fluff that can create chair? I don't know. What do you think?
[0:17:42] Brett Bohannon: Yeah no valid points for sure. I love the least amount of clicks that you can do to get to something. Um, Just like just like anything, you know when you're driving the least amount of turns and whatnot, you know? But uh yeah, I totally agree. I think again, I just think it really depends because you can go down so many different avenues and I just think it depends. It's like, okay, we want to create a V. I. P. Group and not nurture them right away but use them for product launches down the road. Then I think both facebook facebook groups. All right. All right. You know, if you're like, hey, I wanna build my list up. How can I do that as fast as possible? Um, You know, I think, I think that, you know, that's 11 avenue to go down and then you can kind of fine tune the strategy for that. And then if you're just like, hey, long term, I want to build our list as well and also get people into a group. All right, let's, you know, inserts might be a good opportunity for that because it's going to, you know, especially if if you're in the building phase and you don't have as many monthly orders, it's obviously gonna be longer. But you know, if you're pumping out the orders that could be a little faster. So I think it just all depends.
[0:18:59] George Reid: And would you be utilizing the box as well or would you just be going simple box, good opening experience, nice in sir Or you going, there's a bit of kind of shelf space, shall we say on the box, which may as well be utilized plus the box. If it's nice, sticks around for a little bit longer And then it's always got that help, video or tutorial video or V. I. P. Group QR code sat there which they continuously see and as a box which gets kind of sticking around for a bit longer, maybe a bit longer than an insert which may not go in the fridge may get binned. So would you put them in a box?
[0:19:40] Brett Bohannon: Yeah I like that idea. Um I think the more touch points that you can have with the customer's eyes the better. So I'd even almost like repetitive lee put it somewhere on the box uh and then put it on into like you know in for instance like a QR code um just have it in in multiple places for them to see. Um And like just you saying that just even thinking about that, you can even maybe do two different QR codes and then that's where you can kind of test your theory of different Avenues are different, you know, roads to go down in regards to the funnel, you can kind of see, hey, this person did the box QR code or out of 500 units, 300 of them scan the box and 200 scan the inserts and then you can kind of decide on what to do from there. I think, I think making decisions off of data and and passed information is super important,
[0:20:38] George Reid: just pivoting a little bit then what brands impressing you a lot at the moment and why?
[0:20:45] Brett Bohannon: Oh, good question. Uh, mm, off the top of my head and it's probably because I'm kind of in the space and I've been seeing them quite a bit. Um, Poppy is doing a really good job. I know you posted about their creative a little while ago. Um they're growing tremendously. Um and you know, they're in that kind of space where it's, it's interesting because you don't necessarily need to know that you have to have the product, but they just do a really good job of marketing their product on amazon and off of amazon to. Um but they're doing a really good job. I think they're one of those brands that has a lot of brand uh search volume on amazon. So I don't think there, you know, they're really paying attention too much else. Um but along those lines is like Poppy and then um ali Pops doing a good job too. I think they've grown quite a bit over over the past years. Uh like all the time I had those two are doing really good.
[0:21:54] George Reid: You think that starts just because they've got phenomenal creative? I know poppies weren't always named poppies, they had another name beforehand when they went on shark tank, and then since they were taking over or not taken over, got invested in, they rebranded massively became poppies, But do you think it's just their content, they're nailing it with, or what do you like about them on the actual amazon platform looking through now?
[0:22:21] Brett Bohannon: Yeah, I think it's, I think it's their, their creative mostly. Um, it's super good. Um, and I catch you. I like, I like any, like, any brand that's, that's kind of playing outside of the box. Um like Destiny, I think her name's Destiny Watson. Am I saying that right? Her and I posted something about this dog food brand. I'm gonna kind of go off on a tangent here. Um but it was, but it's like, I love, I love you dog, I love, love, it's a weird brand name, I can't pronounce it. But they were the first ones that I see go really awesome with sponsor brand videos. Where is this? Like whoa. Like and it was the one where you scroll down and you see a dog's tail wagging and it hits all the letters of the words in the ad and it's just super eye catching. And I saw someone post on them the other day. I think this was in the U. K. Like a soda brand that did it where it was like a video opening the bottle and then the soda just exploding all over the screen. Like just those kind of eye catching things. I love when brands do that and they play outside of the box a little bit and they kind of stretch it a little bit because I think it sets a new course for everyone else to kind of follow and and to try. Um so I think that's super important as any brand.
[0:23:50] George Reid: Yeah, I remember seeing the dog one as well and just the fact that a lot of people in the amazon community are sharing and talking about and reacting to it and bear in mind we see a lot more content than most others on amazon and we're making noise about that particular thing. The same with amazon created, it's like part of the reason is like you're seeing stuff all the time, okay people are saying this is good then it's worthwhile getting some inspiration from it. And that's the objective here. Like you looking to get inspiration from what others are doing and if you look at what properties got going on now, it's not necessarily that that complex what they've got going, what they're doing that is well shot images or well well done renders. I imagine it looks like a render and then just simple infographics which you could literally create on canvas to. Um But then they're doing a good job and I guess part of that does come down to having a good product as well because I look at some of the bullet points, it's it's not the best. Um And the title isn't even the easiest to read. Um But I guess it just proves the point that if you've got a good brand and a good product you can get away with more stuff. Um I haven't seen that video out, so the video is good. Another eight pluses. Great. The storefront? Strong.
[0:25:12] Brett Bohannon: Yeah. I haven't seen, I don't think I've seen their video ads either um Or I just don't it's not not coming to the top of my mind, but I think I think it also showcases that a brand that does a good job outside of amazon pretty much will also do a good job inside of amazon. Um You know because they have that that search ability so that just kind of gives legs to the to the numbers out there that people are shopping on amazon and continue to do so.
[0:25:45] George Reid: Mhm. Okay, I want to finish off with a bit of a speed round and we can call it a day. Um So kick things off three quick questions, number one, what is the biggest threat to a brand selling on amazon right now?
[0:25:59] Brett Bohannon: Good question. I think it's it's that LTV um it's how do I know that this person is going to come back in order? How do I capture this, this customer? I think that's one of the biggest threats right now,
[0:26:13] George Reid: man like it. If you only had 10-K would you start an amazon business? Yeah,
[0:26:19] Brett Bohannon: that's a good question. I would, I would say yes because I could probably do it with like half of that and then utilize the other half. You build a brand around it um with what I know. So yeah, I would do it.
[0:26:36] George Reid: But if you were your average Joe your mom and pop in the middle of the middle of nowhere, 10 grand you reckon this enough these days?
[0:26:45] Brett Bohannon: Yeah, I'm very optimistic and I'd say yes. Um but I would give a fair warning of how and where you get your information from. I think there's, I was at this I'm sorry to go a little further on this. But last night I was actually looking through like you know, facebook and twitter and there's just so many people out there that are touting these things for FDA sellers and I'm like man I really wish people would stop doing this. But if I was going to give any advice start off with whatever you can't start off and just learn. I mean yeah like just just learn but be careful what you take it what what what kind of information you take out there
[0:27:31] George Reid: roles in nicely to this and if you are running an amazon business on your own what skill set would you be looking for in your first higher
[0:27:41] Brett Bohannon: man? I would just say tenacity. Um Someone that can kind of just figure it out. It's it's a it's something unlike anything else out there. I've I've actually hired someone that had no amazon experience and uh it's a humbling thing uh This person came from the S. E. O. Background so that was kind of good but it was it was it's a completely different beast. Um So just like patients in and being okay with not knowing everything. I think that's super important. Because I also saw this person kind of get down on himself because he just didn't know it was just like you kind of have to just be okay with that.
[0:28:32] George Reid: Yeah particularly how quickly it's moving. It's impossible to know everything. Even if you work in the advertising space and let alone you're never going to know every little nut and cranny. So for individuals like you and I who are more generalists and lean into different areas it's impossible to know everything 100%. But you aren't. The tenacity is a good one bro. It's been a pleasure it's been a pleasure mate. Thanks for thanks for taking the time I'll let you get back to look after the family. Who it sounds sounds like a waiting for you to join them.
[0:29:07] Brett Bohannon: Um Sorry if you can hear them, but yeah, they're all right. No
[0:29:12] George Reid: worries. No worries. Um but pleasure speaking mate, and look forward to the next year
[0:29:18] Brett Bohannon: George. Take everybody
[0:29:19] George Reid: you do about it. Hey guys, just a quick one. If you are enjoying the podcast, I either have some actionable next steps or new ideas. I'd really appreciate if you could one subscribe to the show and leave us review. These are really, really important to us as you probably know, being in the amazon world and two. If you're looking for additional support with your brand, head over to the website. It's always day one dot co dot UK where we've got links to other resources. As often our guys speak soon.