62. Waqar Shaikh: Mastering the Marathon of Technology Leadership - Discipline Drives Success

Ever wondered how the discipline from your morning jog could be the secret sauce behind your work achievements? Waqar Shaikh, an accomplished tech executive and endurance athlete, joins us from Karachi's bustling streets to the innovative corridors of T-Mobile, Google Cloud, and Accenture, unraveling this intricate web. His story is a testament to how applying sports principles to professional life can inspire growth, instilling vital traits such as persistence and meticulous attention to detail.

Childhood memories often include scraped knees and impromptu games of tag, but for Waqar, they were the building blocks for his illustrious career. We reminisce about how unstructured play and team sports imprinted essential social skills and a sense of community, which later translated into corporate success. Through Waqar's lens, we appreciate the unexpected twists of mentorship and seize opportunities that can define our path, whether in the field or in the boardroom.

As our conversation weaves through the stamina of running to the endurance required in the workplace, the parallels are clear: both demand consistency, routine, and self-care. We explore how these shared principles shape us into better athletes and more effective professionals, with Waqar's own journey providing a blueprint for balancing a tech-savvy career with a passion for pushing physical limits. Join us for this insightful synthesis of athleticism and innovation, where the four C's - Creativity, Curiosity, Communication, and Collaboration - emerge as cornerstones of fulfillment in both life and career.

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Transcript

Waqar: 0:00

I think how we do one thing is almost like how we do everything, as a say, how you show up in your personal life is all you show at work. In vice versa. It's hard to separate. There used to be thought that you can turn on and off a switch. I believe that's hard to do and you can maybe tone it down a bit. But you are who you are.

Waqar: 0:18

If you're being honest with yourself, what running has brought to my career or work in vice versa, being an endurance athlete, you've got to show up on a regular basis, on a consistent basis, got to put the mileage in and build that muscle. But it's not only doing the mileage, it's also you have to start doing small things together with it, like eating well, sleeping some strength and stretching and then periodically taking some breaks to let that training soak in and absorb in. So do you build that strength? And I believe, from a career perspective, work perspective, we have to show up every day. We have to earn success, we have to earn respect.

Waqar: 1:04

Very frequently, some people just do a project or a B project or do this or that and let's sit down those laurels. I believe you just have to show up every day to be your best person, best self, to have that continued success and, like in running in career, you have to do the small things too. Build a relationship with people, take care of your own self, take care of your team, get the right nutrients in your body, take care of yourself cognitively, like do you have enough white space? Do you have enough breaks built in? I mean, we have a culture in the US we don't take a lot of breaks. I think on average, some status American worker takes like eight days a year.

Klara: 1:42

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Grand Slam Journey podcast, where we discuss various topics related to finding our passion and purpose, maximizing our potential sports, life after sports and transitioning from one chapter of our lives to the next, growing our skills and leadership in whatever we decide to put our minds into. For my guest, Waqar Shaikh, reas of all of the above sports, business and technology. Wakar is an endurance athlete and a business and technology executive With over 20 years in technology and management roles spanning from strategy delivery, operations, sales partnerships and building high performing teams with expertise in managing change during hyper growth. Most recently, as a VP of digital at T-Mobile, he led development of all digital products, provided technology consulting and supported B2B relationships with enterprise and government customers. Before that, he was at Google Cloud for over four years, where he grew Google's cloud business in the Pacific Northwest, competing against Microsoft and Amazon in their backyard. He led teams to enable machine learning, AI and infrastructure modernization capabilities for clients. And before Google, wakar spent eight years at Accenture, where one of the key projects he developed and run IoT partnership between Accenture and Microsoft. It's been such a great conversation with Wakar and I thought this episode would be a great summary to close the 2023 year with.

Klara: 3:46

Wakar has an interesting journey, growing up in Karachi, pakistan, with a dynamic and multicultural background. When he was young, he learned how to speak fluently three different languages and we discussed the impact of that and how that helped him to understand that, helped him perceive multicultural environments in his business and professional life. We talked about the importance of play, learning and curiosity. I love how Wakar mentions number of times, serendipity and chance. There are areas of life that we just can't plan for and being able to see chance and grabbing opportunities when you see them in front of you. We talk about the power of consistency. What does being an athlete mean and how does it translate to our performance, not just in the athletic world, but in our professional lives? What does it mean? Being balanced and staying focused in our careers, work and life? And, of course, as both of us are curious about technology, we talk about some of the new trends or perhaps not new generative AI, which has been around for over a year now, and both of us are very interested in the applications and problems that this technology may help solve. Last but not least, we end with summarizing the importance of the four C's Creativity, curiosity, communication and collaboration.

Klara: 5:32

Ladies and gentlemen, it has been a year full of podcasting for me. I have certainly learned a lot. Trying to release my episodes on weekly basis is not easy, but still very enjoyable. This is the last episode of the year. I wish you all productive, fun and successful 2024. However, you define success for yourself. I have amazing lineup of guests coming in in January, and so I hope you continue to tune in. If you enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to share it with someone you believe may enjoy it as well. Consider leaving a review on Apple podcasts and Spotify, and don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. This is your host, clara Gossova. Thank you for tuning in, and now I bring you Wakar Shake. Welcome to Greenstone Journey podcast. Wakar. Happy Monday. How are you Doing? Great, clara.

Waqar: 6:35

Thanks for having me. Yes, it's a pleasure.

Klara: 6:38

I know we have been talking about this for a while and calendars finally aligned, so I'm excited to talk to you about many things sports and technology but before we dive into those two topics, I want to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself to our listeners.

Waqar: 6:58

Yeah, it's been quite a bit of juggler with our schedules, so glad to be here. Finally, a bit about me, sam Wakar, based out of his Seattle. I'm a father of two little ones, six and four. I start with that because right these days they take a lot of my time in my mind share and I'm an avid runner, although again, I'm in a mode of thinking a lot about it because I'm injured after some intense events this summer.

Waqar: 7:25

Beyond that, from a professional side recently I was VP of Digital at T-Mobile. I was leading their T-Mobile for business unit for all digital needs. Prior to that, spent about four years at Google Cloud, joined them in the early days when they were just in that hyper growth or starting off. In that phase I led the Western states, which is all states from Washington down to New Mexico, excluding California on the Western side of the US. Super fun time there, build a team from small and full to large, 50 plus folks and the revenues grew. We had specialization and this was great time there.

Waqar: 8:02

Before that did a bunch of strategy consulting work, partnership work, an extension that. Sometimes I had four careers there Pure delivery work when I joined and I did some strategy work with mobile and digital and then did some practice business building, as we call it in the consulting world in the last four years. We're around just partnerships and growing a business from zero in a new technology. Iot was just, I think, starting to pick up, or people are coining it to internet of things, and they were like what's that mean? So really fun to be at that early stage and form a alliance partnership with Microsoft that was also getting into that space and do solution development, go to market sales, some marketing. So I really enjoyed that overall general manager type of role.

Waqar: 8:48

And then, a little before that, I spent 10 years in Iowa working for a financial services company. I say my career was born in Iowa. I'm working for that Super conservative, steady and solid organization that was there more than 100 years, started as a DBA and more on the data and system side, and as I was working there, I wanted to do more, explore more. Yes, I should also add I am an immigrant. I moved here when I was 18. I had just finished high school in Karachi and I just came and landed in Des Moines, iowa, which I'd never seen of being before. So the first few years were a ride in terms of this culture, people in, especially the snow, I can imagine would love to dive into that because I always wonder, especially for people who never grew up in snow.

Klara: 9:38

I've had my own, even relearning. After almost decade of living between Texas and California, moving back to Jersey I thought I knew winter, growing up in four seasons, but I totally forgot. So yeah, relearning to live in the winter and learning from scratch is something for sure interesting. But I'm always curious about my guests upbringing. I believe the way we grow up. It shapes a lot of who we are and how we navigate our life and leadership and passions later on. So tell me a little bit about how is it to grow up in Karachi and what influenced you or what helped you find your passions with running and technology. So even my upbringing I would break it down into two pieces.

Waqar: 10:28

The first seven years was actually outside Karachi, about 300 miles, when my grandfather lived and my uncles lived. I was born there. We all lived in one big house, a multi-family. I had 15 years of experience in the snow. I had a house, a multi-family. I had 15, 16 aunt and uncles in the same roof. About 10 or 12 of my cousins were there, so there was always something happening. It's always chaos and busy, so, as you can imagine, about 30 people in the house. Not only that, the first level of that house was my grandpa's clinic. He was a doctor and my dad's a doctor. My uncles are doctors, so there's a lot of commotion, people coming in, people coming out.

Waqar: 11:08

I think that excitement and energy and always play somebody was always watching for me or was there to engage with me gave me a sense or a personality where I think I find joy in almost anything that we think plays a big part of who I am. And then, when I was seven, we moved and I moved to Karachi, which is again a big, cosmopolitan city, like right now. I think it's 25, 27 million people, crowded and dense, and we went from Kepert there. The language changed so we spoke native language in D there in Kerala and Karachi speaking Urdu. So that was the transition and right away, within a few months, we joined an English media school. As we said, the whole medium was in English, which I did not know English at all. So that was a big step for us and the right step.

Waqar: 12:00

And a person who was super instrumental in helping my dad and us to make that leap, which I am so grateful to, otherwise I would not be here, is one of our neighbor. She had just finished high school, or even undergrad. She met my dad and my dad was telling her well, we're going to put the kids into Cindy and Urdu school. And she's like no, you should go to English medium because that's what she studied, that's the way to go, that's the way the world is going. And she just took us under her covers, under her charge. My dad's like, ok, he trusted her.

Waqar: 12:32

And there was five of us then, because I'm my sixth sibling, so two were still not there and that was life changing because we had no idea about the way of living and doing things in karate versus small town, different communication, studying mechanisms. But that was great in the sense that at home I spoke Cindy with all my neighbors I spoke Urdu and when I went to school I spoke in English. So doing that translation back and forth quickly at that time was nothing. But when I look back now I think that really wires your brain and your personality in a different way and that's also helped me as I came to you.

Waqar: 13:10

As I started working with people from different cultures and places, I feel like generally I've assimilated, I've connected and I have been able to work easily relatively. I don't think too much about it because that was a little bit of normal, even though that society varies homogenous from a lot of culture and religion perspective. But this variety that I got earlier on gave me a decent foundation because I think US, compared to many other parts of the world, is super diverse. When you go in the workforce or even in an academic setting, and to be able to accept and be also comfortable with who you are, I think my early days helped me shape a little bit then.

Klara: 13:48

That's fantastic and such a dynamic upbringing. It seems you have a lot going on, and what comes to mind is your level of adaptability and being able to find passion in the little things that probably as the day goes. You mentioned playing as a big part of who I am, which I think playfulness is so important, and maintaining playfulness as we grow through life or in our careers. I think it's really important. So I would love to dive into that. But you also mentioned the cultural differences and being able to adjust, because I really believe that different languages connected different cultures and understanding how the languages structure teaches you how different cultures may also think. So if you were to maybe reflect on some of those things that I mentioned and feel free to add others, what do you think is really the core, or have you make sense of the main skill sets that you had experienced through that upbringing?

Waqar: 14:56

I think the main thing was the different languages in almost different cultures on a daily basis that I had to fluidly move between. That gave me a sense of learning, resiliency or adaptation. That's helped in life much more than I recognize and think about. I've been reflecting a little bit on it now than I ever did and I think maybe some of that helped me in that is the play part, like when we played or went out, which is so unusual nowadays.

Waqar: 15:27

Me and my wife we've been talking about this how do we raise our kids? Nobody goes out to play. But when I was little we just went out. We met people. I had friends far and wide. Here my kids have friends like maybe three or two, four blocks where we live, which is very different Having that play.

Waqar: 15:44

Just go out and I'm engaging with a different set of people in a way, a language and how they grow, how they operate, how they think, how they solve, how they team.

Waqar: 15:54

And then I'm going back to school again. I was in my cricket team, I was in my soccer team and some track and again there was a little bit of different mechanism there and some people coming from different backgrounds, but the fact that we were all playing a sport, coming together as a team that allowed us to rally together and I think that's been a big, big thing for me and I'm so grateful that somehow in my early days I got into team sports a lot more in team sports than individual, that you just work Like you have a goal and you put your differences aside Although in corporate setting that can hinder, but hinder I mean that doesn't happen translate as well, because people forget the mission or vision. That's where leadership comes in. I think we have to constantly keep that in front of our teams, or the purpose has to be greater, that people just know it. But in that, going back as a child, I mean all you want to do is have fun and play or win as a team.

Waqar: 16:45

And then you forget about your differences and that was a really beautiful setting to ingrain that in me. And when you are out together, have a common goal. You think about the goal. You don't think about your differences in different approaches.

Klara: 16:59

Yeah, I love that. So it seemed like you were naturally drawn to sports. You mentioned already a few. Is it part of the upbringing and the play culture that you grew up in, or was there someone who influenced you? And how did your passion to seem like through different sports also attracted you to running, which is now your main thing that you do in practice?

Waqar: 17:24

There was a lot of play just on the streets, informally, but a little bit more serious at a school level. That happened by chance. In my family there's nobody who played sports. I was the only first kid. We just played a little bit of random here and there, but not representing your class or your house or your school. That was by far a stretch. It was during one recess. We were just playing tag and stuff and there was a coach. His name is Irfan. He was standing there and just observing and he observed me playing, just being brought, athlete, running and dodging. He's like well, come on over here, kid, do you want to play baseball? I'm like I've never played baseball. I know what baseball is. So this is like in Pakistan Baseball is not a normal game. He's like don't worry, I'll teach you, but do you want to play? I'm like yeah, of course I want to play. So I showed up on a practice one afternoon and he gives me a baseball mid-club, shows me how to catch the ball I mean, there's other people too. Similarly, because our school was just forming a team and baseball had been just somehow started in the region of the city. So we just picked people who didn't play and I was one of those.

Waqar: 18:32

But I did play cricket. I had good reflexes, I was fast, running-wise, and then I just put all in it. I mean, if there was a ball coming, the ball's not getting out of my reach, I'm getting it. That attitude and energy just helped me kind of do well in the first practice. Second practice and within like four weeks I was the mainstay of the team in many ways. I was out in the outfield and just running catching balls. So that's how I started. So once I got to know him he saw my again energy and passion in what I did and everything I did. So he pulled me to soccer then because I could run fast and I can kick the ball around a bit. So that was the next sport Then.

Waqar: 19:10

I was always pretty good at cricket, because cricket is the main sport in Pakistan. You're playing on the streets day and night During summer when school's off 10, 30 in the morning to 1.30, three hours. You come home, eat lunch, take a nap. Four to seven Again, you go out and play like six hours a day and when you play that much at that age you really really build some muscles and technique. So then I got into cricket team and then later on we had a little bit of a track event and again, playing all these sports, I built some strength and stamina and a decent track. So that's how I got into it.

Waqar: 19:42

Just by pure chance he saw me and he kind of took me under his wings and played all these sports and then when I was in my high school later on there was a big competition around track. It was a different school. We stayed connected. He's like I'll coach you, he'll coach me for free. I didn't even have proper running shoes I used to use to have normal shoes. He gave me his old shoes like try these. I still have his spikes that I wore for my first track races on dirt and I was like a size eight and those shoes are like size six and a half. I'll wear these.

Waqar: 20:14

So his influence on me was tremendous in terms of just exploring my own talents around athletics or sports, getting really into it. He took me to the gym. He showed me how to work different machines. I'd never been to a gym before and now I'm like I can't thank him enough for that, because running or being outdoors is such a big part of who I am, who my family is we live in Seattle and one reason we don't want to leave Seattle I mean you never say never because who knows what life brings but it's because of the nature around it, access to the hiking and the running. And all started at that recess when I was just playing tag with my friends and he saw me and I got into one sport and second sport and then just did some track with him, super, super grateful, and I have come to believe, like many people, life has turns and events that you don't know where they lead to. You just have to be ready to take a turn.

Klara: 21:14

Yeah, and it seemed like you really grabbed that opportunity. It was an invitation that your coach and mentor was sort of offering you and it was like, yeah, I'm gonna try this and you put in your full heart and effort into it. And it seems like, a little by little, it was a journey that evolved from one sport to another, but your hard work, commitment and willingness to succeed and be great at whatever you put your energy into drove you to the next level. How fantastic. Are you still in touch with your coach or mentor? Do you still talk to him?

Waqar: 21:49

Yeah, absolutely Whenever I go back to Karachi. We meet up periodically. I'll text him or call him. Definitely he's on my list and in my thoughts all the time.

Klara: 22:00

Fantastic and you're just about technology. So we know kind of where your passion for sports came from. I guess science is connected to your father and grandfather and their clinic. But how did your technology journey start and evolve?

Waqar: 22:17

So I come from a family of doctors right Grandpa, dad, uncles and there was a good thought in my family I should be a doctor too and, growing in that culture, everybody wants to be a doctor or an engineer. But there's also another thought that persists in that region is your career should provide you more than anything. Like you do what makes sense from mostly financial or society status perspective, right and passion and what you're really good at it comes second. You have to be very pragmatic. The culture is in that way.

Waqar: 22:51

So in those days like this was mid to late 90s, but dad heard about the whole internet boom and technology and as we were thinking about US colleges and he mentioned this IT boom happening, you should think about that, you should do that and I'm like okay, in many ways I'm like I don't want to take any guidance on what did they tell us? Like we look down on our parents who forces in the past now right, but in that time I was a really good kid and I just did what he told me. So I just went into IT in that way and I'm so glad I did, because I've learned so much more. I mean, being in tech has filled my curiosity to the brain and it continues to you because there's so much happening.

Waqar: 23:32

It's exposed me to ways of thinking, ways of working. I've met so many people, so many cultures because of tech that I couldn't imagine a better career for myself. But to go back, how did I get? Initially it was by chance, it was more of a pragmatic choice. Hey, you're gonna go. What would make sense, what would get you a good job right away? I'm like, oh, you're becoming technologist. And so, instead of going into computer science, I did go into information systems and double in finance, because I was always a little bit more oriented in business or how we applied, rather than just do hardcore coding, which also has served me really well to date, I believe. But now I'm a big enthusiast and fan of how we're evolving, how we're shaping, especially with AI now. It's just super exciting.

Klara: 24:23

Yes, and hopefully we can dive into that, because I've been reading and studying AI quite a bit. I know you have as well, so I'm sure we'll have an opportunity to touch on that. But going back to your transition, so you're researching colleges in the US. For me it was like a whole different world. I had no clue how to pick colleges coming to US. I pretty much just said almost yes to one of the first ones that came to me. But how did you pick Iowa out of the whole world in the US and the college you chose for yourself?

Waqar: 24:56

Again, that's also an opportune or stroke of luck. In some ways. I did get into Drake, which is in Des Moines, iowa pretty reputable small private school, actually liberal arts. But that was my first plan. I was going to go to another college in the East Coast. Two factors pulled me to Iowa. One, a buddy of mine. He might listen to this podcast and I should give him credit, but I was pissed at him at that time. He was going to go to Drake and I think his mom called me and told me hey, you guys have been together since, I think, grade four. It would be good to be in the same place. What do you think I'm like yeah, I think that's.

Waqar: 25:32

I mean I was paying the same amount, same reputation and that kind of connected with me, I think that makes sense.

Waqar: 25:38

Yeah, let's do it. And then I talked to my dad about it and he's like, yeah, that's a good school too, because one of his colleagues' son was studying there too and he just kept raving about Drake. So that endorsement and this little poll from my friend, I'm like, all right, I changed my decision to go there. So that's how I ended up in Drake. It did happen that that friend of mine who was going to come with me, he changed his plans and he ended up going to East Coast to a different school, a better school that he was wait-listed on. But then he caught a call and he's like I'm going to go there. I'm like, but I was said and done, I was happy with the decision and I'm glad I did, because Drake was wonderful for me.

Waqar: 26:15

Small school in the town of like Des Moines, where there's a lot of family values, culture, people were extremely nice. I don't think I could have asked for a better place to go, minus the cold. I met my current wife there. We got to know each other then and we were friends for a long time. My first job was at principal financial group in Des Moines. That was like the premier employer when I graduated it was around 2002 and that's when the economy and the first bubble burst and like crap, people getting laid off. People were not getting jobs. But I was super fortunate that I ended up with principal and I did well. There grew my career. They sponsored me for my visa and stuff gave me lots of opportunities to grow. So, yes, that again was a chance that happened. Instead of going to some college on the East Coast, I ended up in Midwest and I did fairly okay. And from one thing to the other, life just keeps happening.

Klara: 27:18

I love that and technology sports. Looking back in the convergence of the two, what do you find are some of the similarities? I know you've always kind of kept on the running passion and you've been competing in quite a few different venues and events Anything that you wanna highlight that have been your most exciting events or events that you really remember, and so the skill set that you see transfers over to your technical world and the skills as sort of you transitioned then from there from the financial group to Ascension, google, t-mobile. What do you see as the main similarities or skills that you apply in your everyday life?

Waqar: 28:09

That's a good question. I've been reflecting a little bit on some of that. I think how we do one thing is almost like how we do everything. As they say, how you show up in your personal life is all you show at work in vice versa. It's hard to separate. There used to be thought that you can turn on and off a switch. I believe that's hard to do and we can maybe tone it down a bit. But you are who you are if you're being honest with yourself and there's multiple angles we can take for that question. But I'll go one path. What running has brought to my career or work in vice versa?

Waqar: 28:47

Being an endurance athlete, you've got to show up on a regular basis, on a consistent basis, got to put the mileage in and build that muscle. But it's not only doing the mileage, it's also you have to start doing small things together with it, like eating well, sleeping, some strength and stretching and then periodically taking some breaks to let that training soak in and absorb in so that you build that strength. And I believe from a career perspective, work perspective, we have to show up every day. We have to earn success, we have to earn respect. Very frequently Some people just do a project or a B project, or do this or that and let's sit down those laurels. I believe you just have to show up every day to be your best person, best self, to have that continued success. Now, just like running mile after mile, and like in running in career, you have to do the small things too. Build a relationship with people, take care of your own self and take care of your team. Get the right nutrients in your body, take care of yourself cognitively, like do you have enough white space? Do you have enough breaks built in?

Waqar: 30:02

I mean, we have a culture in the US we don't take a lot of breaks. I think on average, some status American worker takes like eight days a year, that's it. And I think for Europeans it's like 23 to 27, like three acts, which is great. Here I think we just live to work versus work being part of life. I think there has to be a little balance. That running for me personally has given me that balance. That I have something else to focus on, passion and motivation when something is not going well at work. If I can go get a good workout in life's good, the world's good, I don't dwell on that as much so. That way it's being a good balancer for me, but also applying those principles of regular work and taking care of the small things that can help elevate you as an athlete or as a professional, things that we sometimes don't think about.

Klara: 30:58

I love that and I know you and I were discussing on a couple other goals we had before that you're quite adamant about the routine and your schedule that you've created and you're really tracking your performance and you see that correlation between your performance when you're running and, obviously, your performance in the business world. So staying active is for you Same way for me, actually a way to become a better human in the professional life or personal career. That's paying our bills, anything you wanna share what. I'm just curious how do you structure your day and what are some of the most important things you're focusing on? Now?

Klara: 31:35

I know you mentioned you're injured, so if you wanna get into that, I know injuries are super hard to handle as well and overcome and I'm recognizing one of the biggest things of getting older is recovering from injury because it takes you much, much longer to recover. Even me now you know, closer to 40 than it was in my 20s. Like your, recovery from an injury is twice or three times as long and so being consistent like you mentioned, the consistency and not getting injured is really important to allow that consistency to build up. So I'm fine tuning my routine as I grow older to really more focus on staying healthy and not get injured Cause, then that creates a whole nother dynamic of lack of consistency.

Waqar: 32:22

Yeah, I mean, there's a saying in our running group probably in any other sport too, I think would be when we're injured, our partner's spouses don't wanna be around us. We're just not pleasant. It's just like go to the doctor, go get your massage, go get your PD get fixed soon, because we're just, you know not ourselves.

Klara: 32:42

We're present.

Waqar: 32:44

Yeah, I mean some things that work really well for me. I try to do them on a regular basis. Doesn't happen all the time is make sure you carve out that an hour, 45 minutes for yourself. Best thing for me to do is in the morning, if I get up, start my day on that positive note, get those endorphins, get it out of the way. Then I'm not thinking all day and it kind of somehow just settles down my emotions and sharpens my cognitive processing and I'm ready for the day. So a lot of times I'm up around 515, 530, regardless summer or winter, and just try to get in that 45 minutes or an hour. Even if I don't get out, I'll do a bit at home because for kids or I didn't sleep well, I have to work on something right away. That's one thing. Just get it in as much as you can. Don't let two, three days go by without getting some sort of run workout, whatever you choose.

Waqar: 33:35

The other part that I'm quite religious about is to sleep, I believe again for a physical recovery, like the whole day, the toll things take on you you need that, the best recovery tool that exists out there is not a pill, not a massage gun, all that, it's the sleep, and your bed is your best friend in many ways. I try to get an average seven to eight hours, sometimes a little bit more, sometimes less. Recently I've been trying to focus a lot more on my quality. I used to get quantity, but my quality was always a little bit shaky, so I'm working on that part.

Waqar: 34:10

But getting a run in the morning or some sort of workout in a sleep, that's super, super critical and then straight hydrated throughout the day, that's been another thing. You got to keep yourself flushed, because that does really give you a lot more energy, and you just maybe stay away from caffeine too, then. Caffeine is awesome, I love the taste of coffee, but it's just temporary, right. So you got to start the day with that, but later on I try to move to green tea or just plain water and then all along just a healthy diet too. Again, when I'm training her, I'm thinking about the carbs, the protein, the veggies, and I used to do all that for just performance, like my training. But as I've gone a little bit older, I'm like all that stuff really just means well for my body and who I am, how I feel, so it just makes me a better person.

Waqar: 34:59

It's not about just athletic performance. Anyways, this is what we should do all along sleep well, keep drinking water, have nutrients like fruits and veggies, which we all know, but we don't do it. But I started doing it a lot more because when I was training I was doing performance. I was just not running five, seven miles just for a jog. I'm trying to hit some time goals and then when you want to drive like a Ferrari, you got to give that the high octane fuel. You can't give it 87. So that was the analogy that came in my mind and that changed my mindset. And then I'm like well, this helps me cognitively and we need to stay stable and emotionally strong, which helps me at work and my relationships. Being an athlete has anchored my life in so many ways, which I'm super grateful for.

Klara: 35:44

I love it. I want to catch pace on the quality of sleep because I'm sure that's many people strug with it, including myself. I feel like I find you in my routine, but I feel like routine may be different for everyone. What is the focus towards, or have you find something that works now that helps you get better quality of sleep when you do on a regular basis?

Waqar: 36:06

So I've got a new garment recently, so I'm tracking my itari a lot more. My old one did some. I had a Fitbit, but somehow I feel like garments are decent for me and I can see the correlation on different things with it. What seems to work like the obvious. Get away from the screen, at least an hour 45 minutes.

Waqar: 36:26

I feel like I can get to that 90% of the time to still be as I don't do it, so that's been a big one because I used to be just working till I went to bed, so I stopped doing that. The one thing that's worked well is just read on a piece of paper not Kindle, not iPad, a book and I kid you, not for the last several months, as I just even read 20 minutes to go to bed. I just so much more clarity of thought. You just calm down a little bit more, you sleep deeper and that seems to be have done the magic. Or when I wake up in the middle and I can't go back to sleep, that book is still right next to me Before I was open up and checked my email or respond to something.

Waqar: 37:06

I do some digital now for several months I'll just pop that book up with a little reading light and read a few more pages and then go back to sleep. I said that's helped Keeping the room a little cooler. My wife likes them all warm, I like it cooler, so we've had some. So I kind of play around with the sheets, but finding that right temperature has been a pretty big part too.

Klara: 37:30

I love all the ones you mentioned, especially reading the book. It's also been a game changer for me and recognize I have to go back to it because one of the best routines before you go to bed. It just helps you slow down and think about different things and the day and just keep going through different thoughts in your head. It's just such a great setting for, or part of the routine before going to sleep so I need to add it back to my routine.

Waqar: 38:01

Well, and on that too, just like with running, I think that made me eat well, hydrate more and then pack in my cognitive and overall well-being. This is just now my running. It's me in my life. I'm starting to think more and see that just reading is just not my sleep quality anymore. Reading is a lot more than that and improves your reading power, comprehension, which we have so much information coming in these days. We gotta keep that trained. But then also it helps us develop a deeper thought, deeper thinking.

Waqar: 38:35

That again is getting very shallow in this hyper-connected world we live in. We just wanna read the headlines or tweets. But to really have a good perspective, really know what things work, what things don't work, or go to level two, three of a problem, you gotta think beyond that. One of the challenges I see in workforce is everybody throws out strategy and thought, but when you think deeper, how we can pull it off or how we need to work, what you need to bring in, it's not a lot of people. I mean it's just a little bit again shallow. I mean that's been one of my reasons to do is dig deep into that part, allow myself to focus more and let those words, concepts kind of seep into the mind. So you have a form and opinion, much more than just reading a tweet or headline.

Klara: 39:21

Yeah, and recognize actually everything you mentioned. I've experienced myself too Curious. What are you reading now, then? Wakar, or any books, top books you wanna share you've read recently.

Waqar: 39:34

I'm still finishing stolen focus. My wife recommended it. It's been on my list for a while. It's all about how our focus has been basically stolen away by hyperconnectivity, so it's a must read. I think we're all of us I finished sapiens earlier this summer loved that one too. There's another one, give and take, I think, by Adam Graham. That was really good. This talks about people who are always giving and people always taking in the success chance of their success. I've got another book, the Second Mountain, as my next one that I want to read. It's been on the list for a while. Yeah, that's all that can come to my mind at this point. I'm trying to get more into my reading habit for better sleep and just keep myself more informed.

Klara: 40:21

Yeah, they're great. I'll add them to my list. I actually haven't read any of those yet, but I've heard some of those. So, going back to your career in technology you mentioned you started after college in financial services in Des Moines, iowa, and then you wanted to explore the world more and see what else is out there and, if you look back, what had driven your decisions to explore the new opportunities and even any takeaways you have from those roles that you would want to share with the audience, especially maybe I'll share from my perspective consulting.

Klara: 41:01

I like the concept of consulting, but I always struggle with this. For me, consulting is sort of like this paperware presentation thing and typically when we have consultants come in, at least from the leadership, from what I see, they pay the consultants to justify the strategy they want to follow. So for me, consulting has this like interesting space from my experience of whether I trust it or whether it's just somebody paying somebody else to justify the next path that the business should take and the leaders want to go, but they want somebody else to create for them. What's your view on that, wakar?

Waqar: 41:39

That is super interesting and that is common belief I had the same one to a certain degree that consultants they just come in and take my idea, then pitch it to my management, which is what happens sometimes when I was in the trenches and the deeps me in my role. But, having worked quite a bit in a consulting firm in new technologies and solving some of the bigger, bigger problems that companies bring to us, there are other things that have happened. Beyond creating PowerPoints, I do believe some good consulting teams they really create something unique. They really bring innovation to our clients, like when mobile thing boomed after iPhone and, let's say, for B2B I don't know 2010, after the B2C initial few years, companies needed to know what to do, what technologies and at Accenture we were already playing with them and we built some frameworks because we had people who just spot day in, day out about it and they built those frameworks and tooling and capability models that some of these large organizations people might be thinking about it. But one of the things I learned in being at Accenture or any other consulting firm was they have some of the best minds, that deep thinkers, and they're very structured people, so they bring the clarity to the table for our clients. So they augment the client from a thinking perspective. They augment the client from a clarity perspective to propel them forward. So I have changed my mind in many ways about consultants, having been one maybe, maybe unbiased, or I got more empathy for them because I got to see what they were building and some of the projects that I did. We did some really cool, innovative work that the client was not thinking about, and now I think the same thing is happening with the AI. It's like there's more and more creative things coming. People are thinking outside the box, people, companies who've been living breathing this for a while, like the BigTag. They have a lot more to offer to clients who are like banking, maybe, or manufacturing or telcos, that have been more or less siloed in their own world and that's great, but siloed from the advancement and the vision that BigTag have had.

Waqar: 43:47

But to answer your question around my move to PFD, to Accenture, that was very conscious and conscious, not just in Accenture. I wanted to go into consulting in general and Accenture just happened to happen, was around. I was hungry, I was curious, I wanted to learn more, I wanted to do more. I had this fancy desire of like. I want to travel, which got debunked pretty quickly. You travel forward with consulting, you see nothing. You see a hotel room in your office. That's about it Most of the time. You do get to travel now and then on the weekends depending on the project.

Waqar: 44:22

But what drew me was a curiosity and desire to learn more, solve bigger problems, meet more people. While I had a wonderful time at Principal, I got promoted pretty regularly. People loved me. I enjoyed working with them at the Great Work-Life Balance. But I wanted something different at that stage in my life and I opted for that. I want to take my skill and apply while growing. I always wanted to bring some value but also get more value from the other organization to continue to grow myself and my career. So that was how I moved into that space, you know, for multi-reasons.

Waqar: 44:56

And once I got there, then the mobile boom was happening around me to be I'm like, I want to learn, I want to do that. I just don't want to do your data or delivery work. I mean it was fun, but I just want to do something more. I've always been a little bit attracted to the new thing or solving for that, learning about that and see how I can apply it. So that happened for like two, three years and then IOT was starting to come up.

Waqar: 45:20

But at the same time I got married and we lived in Tucson for a while, but we were moving to Seattle for my white job as a professor at UC Washington and I did not want to do my old role because that required a lot of travel. I wanted something less traveling, and that's when we were just forming this alliance with Microsoft or on IOT. So that was the main driver I don't want to travel, I want to do something fun, but I don't want to travel. So that was a priority and that led to me being taken on this role around building partnership with IOT, which was one of the best roles I had. So it's kind of how it worked out. I'm like I want to work like balance. I don't want to travel, but I happened to be one of the best projects in the company in a field that was just growing Like IOT, and that, too, with a partner that was investing billions of dollars into this technology, and so the stars aligned and I got that role and I let that role for three, four years and then my move from extension to Google was again all right. I've done consulting for a while, I've done partnership.

Waqar: 46:21

I live in Seattle, hear about Amazon. You heard about Microsoft, the big tech, that growing fast and innovating, and you hear a lot about the culture and so that intrigued me. I'm like, how do they work? How are they growing so fast? What is it about working in a big tech? So, again, I think my curiosity and desire to learn experience that drew me to explore.

Waqar: 46:44

So I was interviewing with AWS at that time. I had an offer from them and to be with Google. By chance there was some other company and I chose Google because they were in that hyper growth mode. They were in the dog Google Cloud, but they had a bigger umbrella of alphabet slash Google that had built amazing products like YouTube and Gmail and maps and just search, which I believe have changed the way we live our lives.

Waqar: 47:10

Yes, we had just had a baby at that time was six, seven months old, and anytime you needed some help, you just call a nanny, youtube or YouTube doctor, right. And how do you even change a diaper, how do you feed a formula or help keep baby with the gas or burping Like it's changed our lives. You go to a new city, you don't need to know anything about the city. Google Maps is there I mean, there are other maps applications to you but it's just changed and I thought I want to be part of an organization that is driving that sort of massive change at just on a daily life.

Waqar: 47:44

And then, in some ways, I think Google Cloud is doing that for the enterprise, for a good competition. You can make arguments seem for Azure and AWS, but they're the same mix. That's what led me to Google and I think that experience was incredible, coming in the early stage of Cloud Road, when we didn't have full teams, we didn't have supporting teams that customers did not know about. Do you even have a cloud offering? So we had to just educate them on that and just understand the market. And I was in the toughest region in the world in my opinion, because here's Microsoft headquartered, here's AWS headquartered and here's Google Cloud, the new kid on the block trying to compete and win their business in their backyard.

Waqar: 48:27

A lot of our clients. Their execs worked at AWS or Microsoft, so they had affinities to them. But again, that was a great challenge for me and my team. How are we going to do it? We could just gone sales cloud and cost savings. You had to go deeper than that.

Waqar: 48:42

And I think that challenge is to fine tune our pitch. Fine rational ways we can do it, get creative on the commercials do in the business. Which was hard initially, then slowly, I think we got better at it. We knew how to pitch it. We had better commercials. We got some better products too. We got some better recognition in the market. Our teams got better. So it took some time, but it was again. Show up every day, work at it, keep tweaking, keep fine tuning.

Klara: 49:10

Definitely, those running skills that you mentioned earlier are very applicable to that role in what you were building at Google, and I'm just curious if you can share a little bit more, because that time is definitely interesting, right? Microsoft AWS are at a more of a clout pace, and then Google said we need to join this race too. And everybody's been saying, look, they're way behind, they're never going to catch up. It's been a period of time where everybody's been very skeptical about the Google Cloud. I mean, they tend to be doing much, much better than they have in the past. I believe they're still third, right, when it comes to a market share, but when it comes to closing the gap between the two established cloud players, I feel like they have done a tremendous work. If you look back on it, I don't know what you can share, given that you worked for Google, but anything when it comes to learning or somebody going through a similar phase maybe different program, different projects what would you guide people to focus on?

Waqar: 50:14

That's a really good question. There were many things going well for Google while the market was still difficult. I mean the brand name that goes well, right. These opens up the conversation, opens the door, which a startup any other company would probably have it hard to do that. So it definitely did have a great stack. I mean credibility in terms of hey, we got Gmail and YouTube and search Like nine of the 10 apps with 1 billion users, active users are owned by Google, so just that credential. We know a thing or two about running at scale and doing ML and AI.

Waqar: 50:53

Before everybody was talking about ML and AI, I think that was going well, but despite that, if somebody's already moved to Azure or AWS, they've already read the benefit of why go to cloud, like efficiency and optimization and cost and some innovation. So I think the message learning for us was really to find the customer's need Plus. What is our value prop, how can we differentiate ourselves, how can we solve the problem differently and, focusing on that, the customer's problem, and how your solution fits there, Even if your solution doesn't solve their problem completely, can you bring in a partner into the mix to bring a full solution? I love one of the words, phrases that was used serve, not sell. That was a phrase that Tatorship came up with.

Waqar: 51:44

And I think that is incredible when you serve. The selling and the commercials are a byproduct. Yes, they happen and that was an ethos that we did adopt on our team to solve the problem. Learn about that and patience and continue to build relationships, because, at the end of the day, people buy from people. They have to trust you. I love your tech, but will you really do it? Will you stand behind it If I call you? Will you come and solve it? Fix my problem, because that's what CIOs and VPs and SVPs are thinking about their career, their life, the companies that are on the line if they're moving major systems. So, building that trust and finding, tuning a pitch to solve the problem, I think those are two big things and I think those can apply to any company in any phase, only growth phase. Can you think of anything else?

Klara: 52:38

I think you summed it up beautifully and I love the focus on serving. Even from my sales and business development world, Everybody always tries to sell the solution right. That's companies. We need to make money and we need to create business. But if you really get to know the customer and are truthful and credible and understanding their needs and their true problems and you position it towards what they really need, I think that's the best way and sometimes I actually think also the best thing you can tell them look, this is not for you, you have different needs and at least you will learn trust and credibility and the next time around, when that needs changed, that will come back to you Like really holding your trust and credibility. With letting them know, asking the questions, that they know what may or may not solve their problem. I think is so important. So you touched on it beautifully.

Waqar: 53:33

And just thinking about it, I actually give the same advice to some startups around the product I go to market. I'm like you have to solve the problem.

Klara: 53:44

I want to touch base on AI and ML and it might be natural path from Google. But maybe before we go there, I still have one more question. I'm very curious about your Google to T-Mobile transition because I've been in the telco carrier world and I also work with Google's and the Metas of the world obviously network Apple which I can't talk about on the podcast since it's separate from my role now but some of the books, at least that I've read, argue that all the telcom and sort of carriers want to be the Google's and Apple's and Microsoft's of the world. They want to figure out how to be more like them and perhaps the argument is that they're stealing sort of the value and telcos are becoming more and more utility providers, sort of just a connectivity that everyone needs, but are having a really hard time innovating or creating something that is unique.

Klara: 54:42

And so you had gone through this really unique journey, kind of reflecting back on what you said and summarizing. You always picked kind of the new trends and you tried to position yourself to the opportunities and what the new trends were with IoT, consulting, cloud and now you're sort of going through my career from this Google company that obviously is a great name. Everybody would want to work for more to the T-Mobile carrier, and what people would argue is more of the utility space. What was that decision and what was that transition like? If you know, whatever you can share openly.

Waqar: 55:23

Good question and a lot of people asked that when I was making the truth. That was in some ways a little surprised or just did add up for some folks, but it made complete sense for me, and I'll tell you what was my biggest driver. It was really to be in the client's shoes, become the client, be in the deep trenches and actually make stuff happen. Make stuff happen from a digital perspective, the transformation that I was working with several clients to help them craft using cloud or data and analytics, and some of these advanced technologies that all the cloud providers are building. We're more or less selling and implementing a piece of that. I'm like I want to see what it's like when you're in there.

Waqar: 56:10

How do you make decisions or what are the factors beyond this technology, which we all know? There are factors beyond technology that influence a decision and I wanted to be in that driving seat. I wanted to be in the midst of that, to gain an empathy or understanding of the client and the world they live in. So that was purely my decision to go in there, see, learn that, and also, as I've always thought of, learning and curiosity has led me, and then technology and trends have been fortunately, the same path, but I also tried to bring something along. So what I bring was my knowledge and understanding, experience working at Big Tech, working at Accenture like pure delivery organization strategy, and helping T-Mobile for business move along a bit further. So that's really what drove me to make this switch.

Waqar: 57:00

And also to your point. A lot of the companies are starting to pivot. I mean, we live in the world of software. Every business is pretty much a software business and in some ways, telcos are trying to beat that too. And that's how I can bring in a bit of culture, a little bit of drive, that sense of urgency. How do we do stuff, how do we move towards that path? How do we adopt technologies that are closer to digital native? And they are on that journey just like any other organization is, or telcos are. I think it's going to take a while Because they have some systems and processes, organizational designs, that are a little bit more legacy and not necessarily design and build and establish for speed, which is how cloud and digital natives established. So, yeah, I think it's going to be some time before telcos can get there.

Klara: 57:52

Yeah, I always joke, but kind of seriousness when people start talking about legacy system. If you come from a telcom world, you know all about legacy system and there's many of them and it's not easy to move and transition as we all would like and want. So definitely understand that. So maybe going from the legacy systems to the new trends AI, ML I know, as you've kind of shared through how this conversation, you're always curious and passionate about the new things, which obviously this is kind of the generative AI, Some of the most momentums we have had in a past year than we have had in the past decades or two. Probably it's kind of the big new trend. What makes you excited about it and what is it that you're diving into most now? Is there a company or specific area that you're really curious about and poking in deeper?

Waqar: 58:52

Yeah, there's so much in that topic, in that question, and this thing is changing so rapidly, so fast, like just this morning. I haven't read the whole thing, but by the next administration they've released their AI framework, slash policy and guidance, which can influence a lot of the companies. The way I'm thinking about it is back to some of the things we were touching upon. What are the challenges we've got that this new technology is going to solve for us? You know what is the problem and how I can apply these LLMs to some generative AI techniques that can make it easy. So the problems exist. It's not going to mean you, it's just the solving method is going to evolve and change and I'm thinking more and more of an application side than any core technology or a trend perspective.

Waqar: 59:46

I think there's great room in customer-oriented, customer service side of the house. Healthcare is a big one. I believe education is huge. I mean, our education system is pretty archaic and it's been working for the last 70, 80 years and we have not adapted to it completely. I think that's where a lot of innovation could come and is coming. I love what Khan Academy is doing with Khan Amigo Super awesome.

Waqar: 1:00:11

Personally, I haven't dove into any one particular thing, but I just keep thinking about how we can apply it At a general level. I do think it will increase our productivity at an individual level. So I'm super excited about that getting some Excel or PowerPoint or email or getting our ideas out and just giving it a prompt or some bullet points that we have, and how do I write a paper about it so I can share that thought. I think that writer's block is going to be minimized, the bar is going to get lower so we can have more thoughtful dialogue around it. So I'm excited to see how, if we adopted in whole organization, how all of us can do that, and how we can all maybe mine our data better now that everybody has a drive or drop box and hard drive and then share points and other.

Waqar: 1:01:00

Well, what if it all just comes together and you ask somebody a question and it does give you an answer back, so you're not starting from scratch. So I do think that productivity and creativity is going to go to the next level and that excites me. I think people have thought, mentioned in these terms, the way I think of the AI wave is same way what the industrial and the machinery revolution that came it gave us actual physical muscle, like instead of needing, like, 100 people to move a big rock or boulder, now you just have one machine. So the machine gave us physical muscle. This AI is giving us brain power, brain muscle. So what we can do right now with like us at 10 people, we might be able to do it one or two people.

Waqar: 1:01:43

But those other eight or nine people will have to do something else, you know, to create those products or solutions, get more creative. I do see a lot more hope in it. I'm excited about it. It's almost like movie to sci-fi that we used to see growing up. It's real, it's here with us. So in that regard, I'm super excited about what is to come and how I will adapt with it or how we will apply it to the teams that we work on. So I can't wait to see what companies do, what we all do, I agree.

Klara: 1:02:11

I think, solving some of these really big problems that we haven't been able to solve yet. Right, because all of that data and with the proper, obviously everything depends on the value of the data and the quality of the data and the LLM models. But I feel like this really gives us opportunity to solve some of the big problems we've been contemplating about for a long time. And then you never know, when you kind of get closer to solving the problem or you solve it, what new problems we uncover. Maybe they'll be even bigger than the ones we kind of see ahead. Right, it's like you never know what you don't know. It's like what's behind the curtain of the things that we don't know yet.

Klara: 1:02:54

I'm curious.

Klara: 1:02:55

I want to ask you one more question about the open source versus closed source, given that you actually worked at Google and Google has been traditionally open source software company and pioneering for open source.

Klara: 1:03:08

But, similar to you, I get a bunch of emails in my mailbox that I try to go through every morning.

Klara: 1:03:12

So this morning I got sort of this trend right that the market seems to be split, at least in the startup world, almost equally between the open source versus closed source LLMs, and actually it seems like at least Meta right this the open source sort of with the llama too, but Google is actually leaning more towards the closed source LLMs and there's like arguments against the safety, like will the open source be easier hackable or perhaps use more by the people in the wrong way, versus the closed source would be used by the right problem solving and by the right companies. I personally haven't gotten fully my opinion about it, but I was curious what are your thoughts and, given you've worked at Google, any other perspective that you may have from the past, like the fact that they're supporting more of the closed source LLM? Is there maybe a little bit of trend or things they may have learned from the past open source software that they're now pivoting in this new kind of trend of evolution and technology to a closed source model?

Waqar: 1:04:23

That's a very thoughtful question and I think it requires deeper thought and deeper expertise than I have in this phase. I mean, all we read and see. The open source aspect is always better. It leads to innovation. It applies the thinking, innovation on top of each other. Right, and that's what Meta is doing, that's what a lot of the companies and I support that and I really believe that's gonna take us to the next level of innovation in solving a problem In the same separate thread, and Google's always been advocate of that.

Waqar: 1:04:54

That's why they pushed out the you know transformers first 2017. So they're in the founding fathers in the way of this whole wave in other Kubernetes and other products have released. So they are definitely at the forefront of this. But if they're pausing or reflecting, that makes me pause and reflect you a little bit and my hypothesis on what they may be thinking I don't know, I haven't talked to anybody is. There's still a lot of nuances around the ethical AI aspect responsible, what can happen, and I believe Google's trying to work on some of that or understand that better. They've had some of this technology, but they didn't push it out as early and if you think about GPT-4, or GPT-3.5 came last November and then within months, there's a wave of stuff from Google and Meta.

Waqar: 1:05:45

So there were some companies thinking about not willing to take the risk yet because there's still stuff that needs to be worked out that we're all talking about in the doom scenario that people are coming up with, I do think, from innovation and growth and creativity and solving open sources away, because there's so many domains, so many areas that I don't think these companies can get to it.

Waqar: 1:06:03

We need to allow people to get to it. There are people who are in that region and that domain, part of the world that see problem, but they can use a foundation of Meta or Google or others to build on their scenarios. I do think that's a path forward. Google stands right now on that, maybe just more cautionary as we learn more. They have a lot more at stake just from a brand and reputation perspective and just the goodness in the world. So it's to be seen where it leads. But I think the advancements that we do see right now are incredible and the pace at its convenience is incredible and I can't wait to see what comes out of it. In general, I'm more hopeful than scared of this AI way. Maybe it's just because I like taking a little bit of risk and playing with things, but I don't know what's your thought on this? Actually, open source versus close in Google stands.

Klara: 1:06:57

I agree with you. I haven't fully formed an opinion on it, so I need to do research. I think just from the credibility of thinking about the companies and maybe it's not fair to judge them. I mean, meta's always been open source and just the way they've kind of run this. So the fact that they're going to continue to go with that trend, even with the Telcom and for us project right, they have that sort of part of how they structure their company, so it makes sense for them to perhaps continue with that trend.

Klara: 1:07:27

The fact that Google's leaning towards closed source makes me think that they're, I would argue, a bit more analytical, and so they probably know things that I don't know.

Klara: 1:07:39

And so that makes me ponder about what else is there that I don't know and why they're kind of going that path and choosing that path first, whether it's just from purity of trying to test different business models, because even thinking about the Android and iOS ecosystem, that's a pure example of open and closed right or whether it's something more, as you mentioned, ethical technology related and having things more under control, because there is a lot Once you get these models out to the world, whatever you continue to build out on top of it once the I don't know what the right saying is rabbit is out of the bag in Czech.

Klara: 1:08:18

I don't know how that translates to English. It's hard to catch it back and edit it or make some additional changes, and so I wonder if they actually know how much harm that can create and then trying to be more controlled with the way they approach it and more, maybe, accountable to their responsibilities, maybe still one of the things that we need to continue to monitor and measure until we know more of where this whole trend is heading, which I don't know if we're going to know any damn soon. I think it's something that everyone's sponsoring, including people who are way better at this and smarter at this than I am.

Waqar: 1:08:56

No, I'm with you totally. I think we need to let it play out a little bit and see what happens, or what use cases get adopted, what challenges we find, what risk we find. We've talked a lot about some hypothetical and maybe some real, but there's not as many real applications yet relative to the amount of advancement we're seeing. So I'm curious and keen to see more of that coming up.

Klara: 1:09:24

Yeah, it's really an exciting trend. One of the ones I've been listening to, davin and Lately, is Nvidia. They have actually Willie Fenn podcast and they have amazing guests of different use cases on the Nvidia podcast that. They talk about different AMLs and how people are using that, so I'll add it to the episode notes. Feel free to listen to anything else. What card that you actually listen you find most useful in this space for learning or satisfying your own curiosity around it.

Waqar: 1:09:54

Thank you for showing that I'm going to look up that podcast. Well, generally I'm all over the place with podcasts. I listen to WOOP podcasts for my fitness and well-being perspective. They've got some good research, even though I don't own a WOOP band. So it's amazing that they put that content and I am consuming it. Initially I used to feel guilty. Maybe I should get a band. Since I'm listening to the content, I'm like no, no, no, this is only content, so I don't know what that is.

Klara: 1:10:19

I enjoyed it to you. Actually, I have to say I listened to their podcast as well.

Waqar: 1:10:23

Yeah, kristin is awesome with her insights. I've been listening to a lot about ESG because that's an area that I'm a little interested in around climate and governance. Scott Galloway he's got some good podcasts around different topics. Reed Hoffman he's been pretty impressive just in for founders, and he's got some around AI Because he's got this company, I think, inflection AI with DeepMind founder, which is super fascinating. What they're trying to build like chatbot of all chatbots, so it's pretty cool. So, yeah, I don't have anything one particular one, but I just randomly see what comes up along the way and then pick them up and follow along.

Klara: 1:11:10

Last two closing questions Soakar, we've talked a little bit about sports technology, the combination of the two, ai. As you see this world evolving, which actually I share from my perspective, it seems to be getting faster and faster. Especially this past month, I actually really sense that I needed to focus more on myself and close in on just what's most important for me. But what would you inspire people to be doing more of or less of?

Waqar: 1:11:42

Oh, that's a tough one. It's hard to tell my kids what to do. To tell everybody what to do. Ha, ha ha.

Klara: 1:11:50

And feel free to reframe within your realm of perspective of what you're focusing on now or what your family is focusing on now.

Waqar: 1:11:59

Like for us in our household. What me and my wife were thinking about for kids is slowing things down a little bit, making them more real by real spending time with people we care about, being in the community, doing a little bit more volunteer work. I mean, social media is great, screens are great. They aid our life, but just finding a better balance with it than we've had in the past, I believe. And as we look to future, like something that I'm thinking about, I mean that technology is changing so fast. The way we work is changing so fast. What should we be thinking about, from a skills and personal traits perspective that will keep us ever green? I think about it for myself. I mean, I've still got some career left and my kids. What will they be for them? It's things that you hear about, the things that I see in the real world that stand out, and I think that would be impactful and useful, just that.

Waqar: 1:13:05

How do we get creative? How do we build a muscle of creativity? Is it innate or can you be creative? And I think online creativity is an element of curiosity asking the why and be willing to dig deep into it and then, once you ask why, connecting the dots from that to otherwise, that you may have explored and see patterns and willing to again do something about it by willing to do something about it yourself. If you're part of the team, bring it to the team and communicate. That leads to that skill set of communication which, again, is getting challenging a bit, because if you're so much more on media like email or text and a lot of that is happening in that fashion how do we communicate in voice with people and team, or reconform, and do you think, again, AI can help us a little bit in that way?

Waqar: 1:13:57

But developing that skill is key. So I think creativity, curiosity and communication, and then an aspect of that is collaboration. How do we work with each other better? I think there's a lot of polarization happening around us from different lenses, but at the end of the day, we have to find ways to work with each other. So I think that's a skill, that's a way, that's a working personality trait that we want to be able to listen to each other, understand each other, feel that empathy, have that compassion, but still move forward to advance the goals we have.

Klara: 1:14:33

Love. It Sounds like 4C Creativity, curiosity, communication and collaboration. Those great together Waka perfect. I love it for an ending. Thank you so much for your time. Anyone who wants to reach out and have a conversation about creativity, curiosity, communication and collaboration, what's the best way for them to reach you or follow you?

Waqar: 1:14:58

LinkedIn is the best. I'm pretty regularly on it. So, yes, I love to hear people's thoughts and some ideas.

Klara: 1:15:06

Excellent. I'll add it to the episode now. If you enjoyed this episode. I want to ask you to please do two things that would help me greatly when please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, spotify or any other podcasting platform that you use to listen to this episode. Two, please share this podcast with a friend who you believe might enjoy it as well. It is a great way to remind someone you care about them by sharing a conversation they might be interested in. Thank you for listening.