68. John Neville︱Ace Your Life: Leadership and Transforming Challenges into Opportunities

When words cross paths with destiny, they can ignite a journey beyond our wildest imaginations. Join me alongside the multi-industry maestro John Neville as we share tales of transformation and the profound influence tennis, business, and technology have had on our lives. From a serendipitous elevator pitch that catapulted my career into a new orbit at Ericsson to the woven intricacies of trust and positive reinforcement, our dialogue is a testament to the power of communication. We celebrate the swift passage of life, reminding listeners to indulge in passions that go beyond the material, for it's these pursuits that truly color our existence with joy.

The symphony of life often mirrors the ebb and flow of sports, a theme we explore fervently through the lens of John's evolution from team sports to the solitary dance of tennis. We take you through a voyage of adapting to the rigors of an individual sport, adjusting workouts as we navigate aging and injuries,  and embracing the buoyant embrace of swimming to aid in recovery and maintain peak fitness. Every scar, be it from sports injuries or the passage of time, tells a story of growth and the opportunity to embrace new beginnings, and we're unearthing the treasures hidden within these narratives.

Lastly, we chart the course of John's 43-year odyssey across the ever-transforming landscapes of leadership and communication. Reflect on the lessons etched by industry titans and the trials that have sculpted John's approach to building resilient teams. John casts a vision toward the horizon of generative AI and sustainable technology, inspiring us to consider our legacies in the wake of a post-pandemic world. As we peer into the future, poised at the cusp of 2024, we invite you to ponder the impact of your own contributions to society's fabric of well-being.

Connect with John via LinkedIn

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Transcript

John: 0:00

This transcends business and personal, I think, recognizing that words matter Anytime I found myself, in a situation where I let our negative emotion guide any engagement.

John: 0:14

anger, pressure. It's hard to take back. The consequences of letting that happen can last a very long time. So we all can probably think of times in life where shouldn't have said that, shouldn't have done that and it could have been hurtful to people, just not necessary. What's the point, right? So always positive reinforcement, even though you're addressing a negative situation with somebody, leaves them better than putting them in a bad place or putting them down or making them feel insufficient or inferior.

John: 0:53

Secondly, if you trust, make sure there's a foundation for the trust, because the people who you think are closest to you are the ones that potentially could do the most harm if you let them. So trust has to be earned, not just given, but last but not least, enjoy it. It goes by really quick and we're all just passing through. None of these things, if you love them, will never love you back. None of these jobs, the money, won't love you back, it's what you do with it. So if you end up in your life doing what you love and call it work, that's the best possible scenario.

Klara: 1:42

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Grand Slam Journey podcast, where we discuss various things related to the Grand Slam Journey of our lives Our athletic endeavors, lessons we have learned from sports and how we apply them in the next chapter of our lives, including areas of business and technology. My today's guest is John Neville. John has been one of the leaders who chose to hire me for my first role at Ericsson, and I have been privileged to observe and learn from his leadership. John is an avat tennis player with deep passion for creating business around technology. He has gone through six different industries and had senior executive roles in companies such as Nortel Networks, Ericsson, adtramron, FogHorn Systems and currently incubating several companies in the generative AI space.

Klara: 2:45

I still remember the first meeting where I had met John. I was a recent MBA graduate and was invited to participate in a networking event that John was attending Up and arriving, I found myself in a room full of other talented people. There were probably 35 to 50 of us. John asked each of us to introduce ourselves, use our elevator pitch and, based on that, he created a short list of candidates who then went through next round of interviews. For whatever reason, my short pitch resonated with John and I'm privileged to have been selected as one of the candidates and having the opportunity to go through the interview rounds and eventually landing my first role at Ericsson. I find that we all have people that come to our lives perhaps randomly and certain bittersly. John is one of those people for me and I'm thrilled that I had the opportunity to talk to him on the podcast about tennis, business technology and his leadership style.

Klara: 4:02

I hope you enjoyed the conversation. If you do, please share with someone who may enjoy it as well. Consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and feel free to check out the YouTube Grinslam Journey channel if you wanna follow in a video format. This is your host, clara Egocova. Thank you for tuning in, and now I bring you John Neville. Hello John, welcome on the Grinslam Journey podcast. How are you?

John: 4:31

Doing great. Clara Nice, to be here with you. I was looking forward to it.

Klara: 4:35

Yeah, I have as well, and I've always admired your leadership and actually part of this conversation. I want to thank you for your influence on my life, you actually being one of the key leaders who chose to hire me at Ericsson, which I still ponder about why and how that happened. Obviously, back when I started, I had no clue that I could do the job that you hired me for, so I'm daddily grateful for that first opportunity and the style of leadership. So I hope we'll dive into that aspect. But we have many things in common, including you being a big tennis fan and tennis player even now, so we want to talk about that, as well as your impressive career, obviously, in telecom technology and many things that you're doing now. So that's a quick intro from me, but I want to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself, anything you want to add and you want listeners to know about you.

John: 5:35

Thank you, claire. Well, first, of, all it was very easy to hire you after I met you. Some people you just recognize right away their potential. And I have to say that clearly you were one that the potential was far greater than they even realized when we first met. I just want to state that up front and hopefully you know I can cover 43 years in the time allotted, but we'll take a shot at it.

Klara: 6:01

I typically always like to start at the beginning. I know you've had big passion in tennis, and so I'm curious if you could tell us a little bit about your upbringing. Did you start playing tennis when you were young, or what did your athletic upbringing look like?

John: 6:17

I kind of wish that I had started tennis much earlier. I would have avoided so many injuries by growing up playing ice hockey and football. But I didn't pick up tennis, claire, until I was late in my teens and then on into college and then a pause, sort of to raise a family, and then, once the children were old enough, I got back into it to sort of earn my meals every day, because without the tennis it would have been very difficult with the weight management.

Klara: 6:49

I enjoyed tennis and I do enjoy it abitly.

John: 6:52

now I'm living here in Florida so we get a seasonal aspect that year round. And again, I'm still using it as primarily exercise and weight management, so I earn my meals every time I play.

Klara: 7:05

Yes, I've actually hadn't realized until recently, when I started tracking my tennis workouts with Apple Watch, how demanding the sport is, because I feel like when you grow up doing it, when you're a kid, you sort of take it as granted, like running four or five hours on the court was just a normal thing for me and I never realized how many miles and steps you actually put in chasing the yellow tennis ball. I think it's a really good distraction to actually get a really good exercise in, and so now as I look at my Apple Watch after a workout, I was like wow, I burned what? 1500 moves calories, yeah, one and a half hours, it is a good exercise. But actually I'm curious. I do now remember you mentioned you played ice hockey and football earlier, which they're both team sports. So how did you transition to tennis? What are kind of the differences that attracted you to tennis? And even while you're passionate about it, I always find that my guests share their own personal things, what they like about the sport. So I'm curious about yours.

John: 8:11

Yeah, I mean growing up playing violent sports and, as I mentioned already, the associated impacts on the body. I mean, at this point I have two metal hips. I'll give that to ice hockey, primarily Growing up in a team sport environment. It's very competitive. You learn how to be a competitor. You learn how to be a competitor along with your teammates and I think tennis offered me the ability to obviously continue to exercise without the violence, Although it is the movements are violence, and I wish I could say that I could do four or five hours, like you just mentioned, but for the two to three hours that I do get to

John: 8:52

play. It's very challenging because it's very aerobic. The movements are sudden to start, stop and I really enjoy the competition without fear of too many injuries. I still manage to fall into the net sometimes when I'm rushing for a drop shot, but far less injuries than hockey and football. Actually, you know the team aspect because I do play doubles. So you know there's a, there's a team there, even though it's only two people, but you rely on them and they rely on you. So very similar to football where there's 11 and ice hockey where there's six. So you know I enjoy the team aspect of it, but I do enjoy even the individual challenge. It's very good and motivating for me to always have that in my life.

Klara: 9:39

So do you play both? Do you still play singles as well, or mostly doubles? I do. I do play singles.

John: 9:45

I had to take a little bit of time off in between my surgeries for my hips, but no, I'm back to playing at the four-oh level and I play here Ultimate Tennis in Sarasota, brampton and I did make it to the semifinals in the last season. So, I'm proud to say that and just so happy that I can do it.

Klara: 10:07

Yes, I mean that's impressive. I have to say, the four or five hours of training was back in the day. There's no way my body can handle that amount of training now. I mean, I work out every day but I can play tennis without completely ruining my body, Maybe once a week, max once every other week. I always believe that the sport that we used to play the most is the one that hurts us the most.

Klara: 10:32

So I have to tame my enthusiasm because as soon as I get a hope, I was like maybe I'm pain free and I can play. Then it like sets me back and kind of the old injuries that I created back in college Pick back up. And so the problem I have is it takes me a lot of time to recover, which I don't have now, obviously, with a full time job. But I'm impressed how much you're still able to play, especially after your hip surgeries, and then we talked several years back when you were preparing, I believe, for your first one. So how is the whole process and recovery for you?

John: 11:10

It's really eye-opening when you get to a point, for the first time in your life, where you're limited by your movement without having and experiencing very intense pain. So, as you know, if you do anything repetitive through your life, those things are going to wear out.

John: 11:29

And I guess as an after effect of the violence force playing a lot of tennis, further complicating the issue with the hip. But it was good though, because I think what it forces you to do is, with most things in life you learn how to compensate. You learn how to balance your activities so that you don't just do one thing. I couldn't run with the hip and I needed to reduce my body mass, so I started swimming. So that limitation in my life forced me to learn to swim. I taught myself on YouTube and since then since 2011, I guess I've been swimming almost every day about a mile, and that's also helped me with my tennis. So it's sometimes how your limitations can help you expand your horizons and open other doors. So I maintain a regimen of tennis swimming, and, you know, lightweight it's not so much heavy anymore, but that gives you the balance in my life to do everything that's still within my realm of possibility.

Klara: 12:30

Love that. Did your swimming help with a little bit of your back and shoulder? Because we just recently moved to Texas and we have a nice size pool 25 meters and when I came here I was like I'm just going to swim. Maybe just once a week I'll go into the pool and swim for 30, 45 minutes because I've had also shoulder and back issues. I think there's some things from tennis. But I was like that may help. And I did it once and I was like, oh, this is a different tiredness. Swimming is not as easy as it was in college so it's definitely requires a different, just type of endurance. What have you felt after adding swimming to your routine?

John: 13:08

Swimming is a great exercise. You use a majority of the muscles in your body. It helps your breathing, the rhythm of your breathing and your cardio endurance Because, as you know, if you run on a treadmill every day, your resistance to that exercise builds and then, unless you change the routine, you'll probably hit a plateau. So by adding swimming to the running, it gave me more versatility in my cardio and it complimented.

John: 13:36

So I think that's the same way in life. I mean, look, just sticking on tennis, right. If you play tennis only on one surface, you become really a good clay player, right? And then when you challenge somebody on a different surface like grass, and they play phenomenon grass you're going to lose. So it's the same, I found, with everything the more versatility you can get, the more experience you can get outside of one particular regimen, the better you'll be at all of them. So when you can be accomplished in clay, you can be accomplished in hard courts and you can be accomplished in grass, then you'll be like people like Federer and Jochimich who could win on all three, and there are some that can only win on one, and so their careers are somewhat more limited than the others. Right, it's the same in business. It's the same in exercise. It's the same in diversity and diet. It's the same with your friends, your family. The more experiences you can accumulate in different circumstances and scenarios, I think the more well-rounded and better you'll be. It's just no esophagus at this point.

Klara: 14:45

I agree. I've had similar realization, especially with the workouts that I do, as you mentioned, like if you get injured. You just have to be creative in finding what is the next thing that my body allows me to do and that allows you to strengthen in a different way. So I had to stop doing CrossFit because I tweaked my back way too much. But I'm now able to do powerlifting and focusing on powerlifting. That strengthens my body differently, but I'm more focused on the form and because you're more still and controlled movement, that allows me to kind of gain different strength. But actually, going back to you and even diet, since you have a really nice routine, what's your routine now? What do you follow? How does your health fitness week look like, john?

John: 15:31

Sadly, as we get older, I mean, the metabolism changes, so it becomes very important to be very strict. So I actually keep a food diary and I limit myself now to a cup of coffee in the morning and I won't eat anything. I allow myself to eat between 11 and noon and then I won't allow myself to eat again until five o'clock and I cannot eat after six. So I'll limit myself to that diet every day and it seems to be, along with the tennis and the swimming and the lighter weight exercise, accomplishing what I need to.

John: 16:11

It wasn't always that way, but it's just a necessity when you need to gravitate towards in life and I think, again sticking with the theme, I mean discipline and then with versatility, to balance your life.

John: 16:25

It applies again with not only your diet, your exercise, but also in business and your career. So I would say, not to belabor the point, but I started 43 years ago and I worked 10 years in one industry and then I shifted for another three years into a different industry and then subsequent another nine years and since then I've covered six different industries and it's very similar to the variability that you want to have, the versatility that you want to have with everything else your diet because all of those different industries had a common thread but they allowed me to. Every time in aggregate when I did a change, it made it easier to make the next change. So, just like you're saying, when you balance your life and you go outside the comfort zone and you widen the box, it just makes every new advancement easier than the last one, as opposed to just staying in the box your whole life and then you know, after so many years trying to get out of it, it's very hard.

Klara: 17:35

I love that comparison. It makes me think a little bit also about languages. Like when you learn languages, I think the more languages you know, the next one you learn you can compare to one of the previous ones or you sort of put it together. I feel like the third or fourth is easier to learn than perhaps it was the first one because you have some other base or understanding to build on. It seems like that's the same for you and the industries. Are you better at kind of spotting, once you kind of learn one and you transition to the next one, spotting what the similarities and differences are, and sort of are able to build on the understanding that you have built by working in the previous one?

John: 18:19

Like I said, there's a common thread that run through all businesses, industries. It's pretty much people how you deal with people you bring with you. But when you try to adapt, let's say, from IT computing into telecom, into artificial intelligence and then into power generation, Technology is also a common thread, but there are different types of technologies. Once you become adaptive learning technologies, every new technology you pick up becomes easier to learn and you bring with you the things that are common in business, which are the interaction with people, the experience with people, the ability to know how to do deals. But I would say that limiting yourself to any one particular opportunity has some benefits, but in my life I can say that trying different things has helped me be better at all of them, Just like languages, as you said. I think if you learn the romance languages, so once you learn Spanish and French, it's more common and then you can probably become more adaptive learning even different languages like German.

Klara: 19:23

While we're on the industries, do you have a favorite one? I don't know if the current one you're in is your favorite, or when you look at an industry that you believe fits you really well, how do you recognize that is that even exists?

John: 19:38

The challenge is when you want to expand your horizons, because the ones that you like the most are always the ones that you had the most success, so that would then tend to try to keep you with familiarity in the box. The trick becomes when you do decide to expand your horizons stick with the new thing long enough so that you could take what made you successful in the last and apply it to the new without getting frustrated, and always going back to what you knew best before.

John: 20:13

I think that has allowed me to look back on all of my different endeavors in a positive way, because when you start a new company or a new job or a new industry, the learning part could be either frustrating and you give up, or it could be exhilarating and it just makes you focus more to conquer it. And I guess that's the nature of competitive people they stick with it, they don't let whatever it is defeat them. They want to defeat it. But again that's another common thread through everything we do.

Klara: 20:49

Curious now, as you mentioned it, because I have my own personal experience recently when I switched from Ericsson to Apple. New beginning is it threatening or exhilarating for you? How do you describe your new beginnings? Where do you thrive the most, john?

John: 21:06

I would say that every time I make a change, there tends to be an opportunity for negativity to creep in. Oh, this was not what I had before. It's not as good. I should have stuck with that, but I think it's. It's sort of like a road with a hill, you know, you start on the front side of the hill and as long as you're willing To conquer the hill and get to the other side, then it's downhill once you get to the top, and I think when you do that enough and you made it to the top before then the top is always attainable. So for me it's. I never stop until I reach the peak and then, when I get to the downside, it's time for another peak, at least for now. I don't know if I'll be able to do that forever, but for now that's the key for me seeing another peak and the satisfaction that comes with reaching it.

Klara: 21:56

How do you recognize that you're on the peak? Because I think that can be Different or could be difficult in many ways. You never know. Well, is this a peak, is this just a valley? And it's gonna go back up again, because life is never linear. How do you know when is the right time to jump to a different industry or find a new peak to climb?

John: 22:18

We all live by Personal goals that we create, and then there are also goals, as you know, that are thrust upon us Exterior goals, right? So take Ericsson, for example.

John: 22:31

It was definitely a big valley in 2007 when there was no LTE, verizon had done no business with Ericsson and I was offered the job to take Ericsson into Verizon and, and by 2016, nine and a half years later, we were the number one largest account in history of the company. So that's a well-defined peak right. We've gone where no one else has gone before to the top and I think at that point it was clear to me that there was another peak to be found. So, when you get to the top, when you win the Grand Slam, is it possible to win two Grand Slams or do you try something different? So I think that was my point. When we won the Grand Slam and Ericsson by bringing the Verizon account to the top, it was time to find another challenge.

Klara: 23:25

And just going back to tennis, and then I want to dive into more of your career and leadership. What are some of the key learnings that you take from tennis, because you're still very competitive now, as you mentioned, you reached was it? The semifinals. How do you balance the competition on the court and how does that mindset transfer to your business?

John: 23:45

So, Recognizing your limitations in life, or is probably the key to success, in addition to recognizing your potential. But I could tell you in the semifinals I learned because in my life I've always chosen to. There's no losing, there's only lessons, right. So I didn't lose the semifinals. I've learned why I did and, quite frankly, it's a best of three sets. I won the first set 11-9 in a tiebreaker, but that one set took 90 minutes and by the end of that 90 minutes and I was playing a gentleman who was 20 years younger.

Klara: 24:25

Wow.

John: 24:26

I hit my wall of my two metal hips. You know that's an extra five pounds of titanium. So I recognize that I couldn't play longer sets, longer points, because I don't have age as my advantage and I certainly don't have a natural bodily structure, because the metal hips are more difficult, they tire. So I Ended up winning the first set and losing the next set and then lost the tiebreaker, simply because I didn't play it properly. I should have played shorter points instead. You know baseliding, this baseliner, and so the next time that won't happen.

John: 25:05

I'll place your order points of try to put more pressure, you know, try to put away the approach shots and not spend, you know, an hour and a half with one set.

Klara: 25:15

I Mean, I just think the strategy. It seems like you're leaned on his game that you were comfortable with, perhaps before as well, but realizing that you need to change strategy as kind of you age. Which brings me to Another thing that I also struggle with. So I'm wondering how you're dealing with it, because the problem with tennis I know I will never be as good as I was when I played I think the problem with sports and why people eventually later on in life abandoned the sports that were great at Because, as you mentioned, like the peak of improving Is. I mean, it's not possible. I don't have the time in the day. I'm very much aware of aging.

Klara: 25:57

I have many injuries from tennis that I gotta navigate around. So I get more sometimes joy from the other sports, say like lifting, where I can gradually improve my squat or Push press, or you can see very clearly the progression of you being able to lift more weights. How do you deal with that Mentally, especially with that two middle hips even? I'm wondering like your doctor surgeon probably Wasn't recommending tennis as one of the sports to go back. Many tennis players have hip issues because of the side movements and they're just constant back and forth. So how do you, I guess one navigate that in your mind and even like, as you navigated the injury and contemplating about Going back to tennis, what made you still go back? No, I need this in my life.

John: 26:46

It's good for me overall in the benefits, for me personally, far outweigh the risks. To answer your question, the main thing is, the enemy Of good enough is trying to be great. So I think when you're in this position in life where you're ascending, you're young and you're strong, you need to transition from where you thought you needed to be great to good enough, because now I'm going to learn to be good enough to win, and it doesn't have to be 6060, it just has to be good enough to win. And that's just something in life you learn to accept with most things. Like you said. Oh, you know, I realize I'm not going to be as good, but why not just good enough?

Klara: 27:47

I am good enough, mostly now sort of the level I play, and I had to adjust my mindset a lot going back on the court. Especially my serve hasn't been serving. It's gotten a little bit better after my shoulder surgery but I know it will never be sort of as I needed or I was used to my serve to be, because that was the one that created my points. So there's a bit of different strategy I need to play. I get foot issues, which my Custom orthotics really help, but I also can't run for too long Because then my feet just wear out really quickly. So there's like a lot of things kind of what you touched on, the strategy. I need to be very mindful of what game I can and cannot afford to play.

John: 28:34

So look at it this way, claire If you're practicing and you're hitting with your partner and next to you are Two women who are playing in college division one, do you look to see how you can beat them, or do you look across the net to see if you're good enough to play that person?

Klara: 28:58

Because there's a big difference, right.

John: 29:00

Which court do you belong? On which court will you accept? Yeah, I mean, it was a point in time when you could have gone over to the other court. Yeah right, but good enough.

Klara: 29:14

Becomes the new metric, because that's why we have levels in tennis, mm-hmm.

John: 29:20

I mean I think I can make it back to four, five, with a lot of work and dedication, but not forever. And In life you have levels too.

Klara: 29:29

Yeah, I guess it seems like you've really been able to just focus on, as you mentioned, the court. You're on and just measuring yourself Against sort of the level of the game and maybe my problem still is like deep down inside, like I know what level I am, but I don't want to accept that level.

John: 29:50

Yeah, like I said, recognizing your limitations as opposed to your ambitions that Move beyond your limitations is the key to success. I Mean like in business, they call it the Peter principle. Right, rise into your level of competency in Tennis with your 4-0 and you want to win the 5-0 division.

Klara: 30:13

Well, that's a great ambition.

John: 30:16

But you know, there's a reason why five o's are five o's and four O's are four O's right.

Klara: 30:21

Yeah, and so going a little bit more into your recovery, two hip surgeries is no joke. I think this is very invasive surgery and it's hard to come back to, especially again the side movement of tennis. How did you navigate that? What helped you get back on the court to recover?

John: 30:42

it was a combination of the movements. In tennis you need to have strength to your point switching directions very quickly. So I would say that when I did the swimming, I did it with purpose. So I added some equipment, so I added fins for resistance on my legs, I added paddles for resistance for my shoulders and I just use that Low impact sport to build more strength in my legs and shoulders, which are also vital for tests. So I did it with a purpose, because I knew that I'm not competitive in swimming but I use it to help me be more competitive in tennis and so, you know, adding those to the regimen helped a lot. So it strengthened my legs Without impacting my joints and strengthen my shoulders because you know, as you know, the surf that becomes problematic as well. So, yeah, I actually use the swimming to compliment the tennis and that helped with the recovery, and then the lighter weight training Also compliments that as well.

Klara: 31:46

What do you do?

John: 31:47

for that?

Klara: 31:48

What do you do for your lightweight training? What your routine typically looks like on my legs.

John: 31:54

I typically just do the leg extensions and the leg press and then I use the flippers in the pool and I have to do a thousand meters in 20 minutes. Otherwise you're not kicking hard enough, but you could probably do much better than me. So I think at this stage happening just turn 65 again, time is a thief and never our friend.

Klara: 32:18

So you take what you can back so let's make a transition to your career, and maybe starting in telecom. I'm actually even curious what pulled you to the industry at the beginning? How did you find passion with technology and telecommunications? In any key learnings you want to share of what you enjoyed about that industry specifically?

John: 32:40

now I'm gonna date myself because we're going way back Long before there was anything resembling a cell phone. So I graduated college in 1981. I had two job offers, one from IBM and another from a startup which is now Eulig Packard. My primary focus was to get into sales and technology sales. So I did pick the smaller Company because I didn't want to be in such a very bureaucratic environment. So I went with digital and I did that for 10 years and I learned sales and my assignment was to be selling computers to Bell laboratories in the telecom industry. That's where I was assigned and it was it was a good assignment.

John: 33:21

It was a growing industry at that time because obviously you know, in 1981, compared to where we are now, you know, you can only imagine.

Klara: 33:31

Yeah, we had landlines. We had pay phones.

John: 33:34

Over the course of the last 43 years, communications have come a long way. I've had the opportunity to see every single piece of it, understand every single piece of it and apply it, because it's the foundational aspect for many industries, every industry I've been in has had.

Klara: 33:52

Communications is sort of the foundational element to it which is helping mm-hmm, and You've had several different leadership roles, obviously through telecom and your best career, even working at Verizon business. Nortel networks which actually still even when I was at Ericsson there's many people that were ex-Nortel and always talked about Nortel is in many ways the star, but also the debacle, as far as kind of what happened to the company. At the end, when you look at your even telecom career, what are some of the key defining moments you would say influenced your growth and leadership? Are there maybe even specific roles that you really believe that helped you push to the next level, or examples you want to share?

John: 34:43

I would say I was so fortunate to be associated with some of the best people in the industry coming out of computers that are designed to Work within the operating environment of telecoms. I ended up working at what in this down for Eisen, and I happened to, you know, be assigned to work with and for the who eventually became the CEO Verizon, ivan Cyberg, and Just being associated with him for that time period was wonderful because I've learned a lot and he was a gentleman of humble background who, you know, actually built the largest telecommunications company in the world From a very small, and I was able to be, you know, with him along, and not only then working there, but then working, obviously you know, outside of horizon, as a vendor or partner to Verizon. So so, starting in Verizon and then working to service Verizon, he always used to say doesn't matter, john, you were on my payroll, now You're still working for me off my payroll.

Klara: 35:50

So that was the benefit because when I went to Nortel was to handle Verizon.

John: 35:54

When I went to, eric said was to handle Verizon, and Some of the other ventures also centered around Verizon. So it's good that Verizon was a very big company.

Klara: 36:04

Yes, I do want to touch base on what you mentioned and what to me it stood out. This kind of the support system Like there's the truth of who you associate yourself with and people say average, like the five people around you is more like who you become, and this is a common theme across the podcast and the interviews I have. What are you an athlete? You always want to have the coaches, or sometimes the competitors, that push you further and help you uncover, as you mentioned, your strengths or limitations. But it's equally important, if not more, in business when you're trying to grow like who is your team and the support system?

Klara: 36:44

And I've seen kind of many differences, even for me personally, as I reflect through the career that I've had actually it's in tennis or now business and technology what are some of the key things you would want to suggest? People and how to choose the right Team or be part of the support system, because I think that's also learning as I'm growing and Realizing her. Maybe this team wasn't the right fit and I sort of learn through those experiences. But as you obviously have so much more experience, is there something specific now, as you know yourself, that you really mindful about who the team is to help you become even better the people that you need around you.

John: 37:29

Yeah, okay. So first of all, the people around you, Especially the people who are in leadership positions. I must admit that I've learned a lot About what to do from them, and then there are many others that I learned what not to do, and I think the recognition of the difference between what's good and what's not so good, because if you do things over and over and repeat them, they become habits. So it's really important to understand with the people that surround you, especially the ones that influence you from the top, is the. The moral compass north, is the, are the ethics north? You know, always keep your compass north and Recognize the good things and then, when it's the other way, recognize the not so good things and avoid repeating them. And I think that's been really important Because sometimes just the day-to-day activities With pressure, if people handle pressure different ways and it's coming from above you, it's easy to just Pass that down, even if it's destructive. So if you learn how to filter out the bad and just Reinforce the good, those to me are the most important things. Mm-hmm.

Klara: 39:04

There is actually a special example that's coming to mind and I want to call out for everyone, because it was just so powerful. I think you and I had met several years back. You came to our house for a coffee. I've actually realized I've recently went through maybe not so good experience. You said to me maybe it was like one sentence.

Klara: 39:27

It was like you got to move on, take the learning and move on, which is literally what tennis players do too. You can't be stuck on your loss. You got to realize look, I lost to your semi-final example. What do I learn from that and how do I adjust my strategy? And it was actually so powerful like it made me realize oh my god, why am I dwelling on this? This is such a good learning and sometimes you learn from the bad things even more Because, as you mentioned, it allows you to define what you don't want to be and what you don't want to do. How do you balance that you like? Looking back at your career, have you learned more from the bad things that happened to you or the good things?

John: 40:11

That's a tricky one, because we have a defense mechanism where we try to remember only the good things and forget the bad. But I would say it's probably important to do both Recognize the really good things and still remember the lessons from the bad, because then, if you don't, you're prone to repeat them, and even you know when things get really tough they may let them creep back in. So I would say that balance is key. Don't ever forget the bad ones, even though it's painful to remember them, and you know when you need a booth, tell yourself well, I did overcome them and here are the good things that happened. As a result, you're your own best cheerleader in life. Sometimes you're your only cheerleader in life, and that's just got to be good enough.

Klara: 41:17

On that note, I do three things, or maybe top three that where some of the key learnings and it can be like good example, which you mentioned, some of the great leaders you have had or bad example that really helped you understand look, this is what I don't want to be, and how did you kind of pivot towards the leader that you want to be?

John: 41:42

So this transcends business and personal. I think recognizing the words matter Anytime. I found myself in a situation where I let you know a negative emotion guide any engagement, anger, you know, pressure. It's hard to take that back. The consequences of letting that happen can last a very long time. So we all can probably think of times in life where should I said that, shouldn't I done that, and it could have been hurtful to people, just not necessary. What's the point right?

John: 42:26

So always positive reinforcement, even though you're addressing a negative situation with somebody, leaves them better than putting them in a bad place or putting them down or making them feel and you know insufficient or inferior Like everyone else. I have to admit that's happened. So I would just go back in life if I could just undo those. Well, maybe I wouldn't have learned from them, but that's what I've learned. Don't let that guide your behavior. Secondly, if you trust, make sure there's a foundation for the trust, because the people who you think are closest to you are the ones that potentially could do the most harm if you let them. So trust has to be earned, not just given. And I think the last but not least, enjoy it. It goes by really quick and we're all just passing through. None of these things. If you love them, we'll never love you back. None of these jobs Right the money won't love you back. It's what you do with it. So If you end up in your life doing what you love and call it work, that's the best possible scenario.

Klara: 43:57

I do love all of those things you shared.

Klara: 43:59

Maybe just to bring up a specific example and you know, with the personally thank you, it meant so much to me early on in my career to have a leader like you being present, and you've always been away in a different office but I've always felt that if I needed to talk to you you were accessible and actually your style of leadership. Also, when you came visited California or where in the office that I was at, you always made time to catch up, whether it was just for coffee, even though you've always had business schedule and obviously meetings and other purpose, and so that alone early on in my career like having a leader like you create the time meant so much. So I'm very grateful for that. You know, maybe not everybody has that type of leader and opportunity and it had like a huge influence for me and motivation early on to like, ok, joe knows about me, I'd better do a good job and I wanted to be my best because I knew in some shape or form you knew of me and obviously probably were aware of the results I'm creating or not creating and I want to be my best leader and I want to be my best leader.

Klara: 45:18

I think I'm on your leadership. I feel like even reflecting on my career and again having you as a first sort of big. I almost feel there is a change in the style of leadership and obviously you've been in this industry way longer. How do you reflect on leadership when you were starting and do you see any changes of the leaders now and how they behave, or any differences and trends?

John: 45:40

I think the world has changed a lot. I mean, it used to be that we all gathered in a place, right, we had to work to a location, and then we all spent a lot of time together and communication was much more personal. You know, nonverbal communication is supposed to be really important, so all of that has kind of changed post-COVID. A lot of meetings like this are different than meetings face to face, so I think we're all going to be somewhat having to adjust to our environment. But you know, when it gets right down to it, the core always remains the people, not so much what surrounds them but what's inside them.

John: 46:25

So, thankfully, that remains the same. You just need to find a way to find what's inside people even though you're not there with them. So now that's what you do, like with these podcasts, you dig a little deeper than a traditional Zoom call, right, and that's much appreciated, clara. So I would say the only thing you owe me now is a tennis lesson you got to get me so I can beat that guy again, instead of spending 90 minutes in one set.

Klara: 46:56

Of course You're welcome anytime in our home in Texas. We'll make sure we serve you good, nutritious food. We got a grass-fed meat, we'll get you protein going and we can get you even a whole tennis cap if you want. John, we can prepare to make sure you're in touch.

John: 47:14

I'm not too far from you in my new office location in Houston, so when I get down there I'll be more than happy to take the drive over.

Klara: 47:22

Excellent, you can show me your swim workouts too, so it's a trade-off. We have a good pool so we can go do some laps there.

John: 47:30

I'll bring my short flippers.

Klara: 47:33

You have transitioned, as you mentioned, through telecom, to a different industry. Now I know you're focusing a lot on gen, ai, Smart, intelligent data and information. What are you most excited about as you move and transition from your past industries to this one, and how do you look at the future opportunities ahead?

John: 47:55

So the generative AI we've been incubating two companies and we're at the very tail end of that and that looks like we'll be successful there with the exits. My latest venture is in clean, eco-friendly technology that improves the environment. So I think my swan song will be helping to sustain the planet and make it a viable place Now that I know I'm going to be a grandfather for the first time. So I'm actually contributing to the health and well-being of my lineage as we move forward by doing this green tech power company. So that's exciting. Congratulations, just kind of giving back. Yes, congratulations.

Klara: 48:43

And anything you want to leave for people as 2024 is here. Obviously, there's a lot of unrest in the world, people worried about the current wars, even the status of the economy, any trouble, mind things that you would want to inspire people to be doing more for yourself.

John: 49:00

What I use myself is can get really caught up in a lot of negativity that's communicated many different mediums. Again, take the information you need before you make decisions, but don't let the information prevent you or scare you from doing things. I've always had this no, no fear, but be respectful of danger, and there are a lot of dangerous things out there that could get in your way that you probably, if you focused on it, would get in your way. Focus on the positive, the things you can control and add value. That's it, simple.

Klara: 49:41

Like a tennis player, you got to know what's in your control and you can only focus on your strategy and the tennis ball when it's on your side of the court and what you do with it. Yeah, what color is the writing on the?

John: 49:54

board as long as you can figure that out. You know you're doing the right thing, right.

Klara: 50:00

Yes, speak about the focus that you have developed. That was always the number one trick, mike Ochi, to tell me if your game is not going good. You got to focus on the ball and try to see it as close and as good as what's written on it. So that's how you know you're paying attention on what's most important. Thank you very much, john. Anyone who wants to reach out to you I know you're a busy man you do have a LinkedIn profile. I will add it, with your permission, to the episode notes if anybody wants to connect. Any other best way to reach you or stay in touch.

John: 50:35

No, that's perfect. I look forward, though, to connecting with you and playing a little tennis, and even doing a few laps.

Klara: 50:42

Excellent, I did too. I'll be expecting you. If you enjoyed this episode. I want to ask you to please do two things that would help me greatly. One, please consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify or any other podcasting platform that you use to listen to this episode. Two, please share this podcast with a friend who you believe might enjoy it as well. It is a great way to remind someone you care about them by sharing a conversation they might be interested in. Thank you for listening.