71. Jeanette Irekvist︱President Ericsson Canada on Leading Through Change and Future of Telecom and AI

Embarking on a leadership journey fraught with challenges and triumphs, I had the pleasure of engaging in an intimate conversation with Jeanette Irekvist, President of Ericsson Canada. From her modest beginnings in a small Swedish town to steering a tech giant, Jeanette's narrative is a beacon of inspiration, highlighting the necessity of delivering exceptional work and navigating professional disagreements with grace. Tune in to uncover how embracing cultural diversity has been pivotal in fostering a collaborative atmosphere within her team, and how fairness has become the cornerstone of her leadership philosophy.

Navigating the complexities of leadership, particularly as a woman, Jeanette shares the integral role of emotional intelligence in guiding a team through the unpredictable realms of technology and innovation. Her story exemplifies the power of adaptability, evidenced by her ascent from a background in business and law to a revered executive position. This episode explores the delicate balance between commanding respect and offering empathy and how maintaining calmness in the eye of a storm can be the most effective tool in a leader's arsenal.

As we peer into the crystal ball of the future, we engage with the profound advancements in Telecom, open systems, AI, and convergence, contemplating the ethical responsibility we bear in their deployment. This episode does not shy away from the pressing issues that accompany such progress, including the role of technology in reshaping the job market and fulfilling societal needs. Emphasizing the importance of mentorship and challenging the imposter syndrome, this dialogue encourages every listener to step confidently into their potential and embrace the transformative power of continuous personal and professional growth.

Jeanette's  LinkedIn profile

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Transcript

Jeanette: 0:00

There's something about fairness of how you treat people Always treat people in the same way, whoever they are in the company, whatever role they're doing. Their contributions just as important. So you're always having that fairness around people and that's maybe the equality we talked a little bit before. Good people always come back to you. Here we are sitting, you tried to move as far away as possible and, you know, still here you are. Good people come back to you, but people in general. So treat people with respect.

Jeanette: 0:31

There's something around karma. I'm not a Buddhist, etc. But there's something around karma. So you do treat people in a certain way and I expect everybody around me to be extremely respectful to each other, even when they disagree. That's okay. They can disagree all day long, but they are respectful and they are going to be professional to each other and I expect everyone to be that in whatever circumstances.

Jeanette: 0:53

That is and simply also coming back to that, you know we all carry our own history and career, all different backgrounds, especially here in Canada where we have extreme diversity. You need to make sure that you really are taking care of that and being that person. Totally a little bit about discipline when it comes to respect. It's also about being respectful of doing what is expected from you and doing it in time and quality, because others are dependent on you. So how do you ensure that you actually help others and allow others to be in collaboration? Because in the end, it's a team. So if I'm not doing my part, then quickly start spalling apart on the weakest link in the chain. And there's a lot to be said. I think about that. It depends on context. I probably highlight different things.

Klara: 1:40

Hello, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to Grand Slam Journey podcast, where we discuss various topics related to the Grand Slam Journey of our lives Sports, business and technology, and growing our skills and leadership in whatever we decide to put our minds into. For my guest today, areas of business and technology. I know Jeanette from my days at Ericsson. I've had the privilege to learn from and be mentored by Jeanette on several occasions and I've decided to keep her in my life, even after I have embarked on a new career journey. I think about my time at Ericsson very fondly and meeting Jeanette has been definitely one of the best experiences. During this episode, we talk about her journey from small town in Sweden all the way to now becoming the president of Ericsson Canada. We talk about Jeanette's leadership and her principles. I highlight several qualities that I have personally observed and learned from Jeanette, as well as her view on telecommunications, the outlook on the industry, artificial intelligence and convergence of the two.

Klara: 2:58

If you enjoyed this listen, please share it with someone you believe may enjoy it as well. Consider leaving a review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, and don't forget to subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. Note this episode is also available in video on YouTube Grand Slam Journey Channel This is your host Klara Jagosova . Thank you for tuning in, and now I bring you Jeanette Irekvist. Hello, Jeanette, welcome to the Grand Slam Journey Podcast. So great to have you.

Jeanette: 3:31

Thank you, clara, for having me. It's fantastic to see you and get to talk to you. Thank you for inviting me. Oh, thank you.

Klara: 3:40

I've been so privileged to have you as an amazing leader and mentor in my life. There's many things, as I reflect on my Erkson career, that I am very grateful for and think very highly about, and actually having the chance to meet you and learn from you is definitely one of the top, and so I'm so thrilled to talk about your Grand Slam Journey of life from Sweden To now being the president of Erkson in Canada. I know you're also an athlete you do running, skiing and many of the things that you have experienced who have your tremendous career. So I'm curious where this conversation takes us, but I want to give you an opportunity to introduce yourself to the listeners, anything you want to add and you'd like people to know about you. Thank you for that introduction.

Jeanette: 4:34

I feel it adds to the pressure of this conversation, but I'll just maybe just do kind of a checkpoint in time where I'm at now, because I think we'll talk a lot about why and where and how it took me here.

Jeanette: 4:47

But so today, as you said, I'm leading ourselves and business and operations here in Erkson in Canada, been doing so for a couple of years and also in my presidential I get the privilege to work with our R&D, so our research and development sites here in Canada, which are two amazing sites with an Ottawa, montreal, who are really helping Erkson stay in the forefront of technology.

Jeanette: 5:11

So that's really my role as it is today and it's been a long and a winding road and I am not here to give any career advice because I've never really had any good career planning myself, so I can just start with that. But really been doing all the things that you actually more or less can see in the company and been around, and I think that's maybe what took me to this place, but we'll talk more about that. But that's where today I'm living outside Toronto and I've been in North America for the past 10 years, after having been at Erkson for over 20 years. The last 20 years has been in the US and Canada, so it's been a very privileged and blessed journey.

Klara: 5:50

I love diving into all of that and I would say you're underplaying your skill set. I do actually have some surprise quotes. Yes, I'm still connected to some of your teams and I was asking them what should I bring up? What should I ask Jeanette, how's her leadership? And so I'm going to try to bring some of those up because later on in the conversation, because they're just fantastic and I think they deserve to be heard from across the world. But I do want to go back. Maybe I want to start back in Sweden. I love knowing where my guests come from. I have international guests and so it's always interesting to hear about their upbringing in their country, where they're from. So you're obviously from Sweden, but if you take us back a little bit to your upbringing, did you play sports? And even what may have influenced you on this path of business and technology?

Jeanette: 6:45

I guess that's a long dinner conversation to how you know who are you. Where did you come from? I'm a small town girl from a small town and outside a small town in Sweden, so really out in the small suburban areas, and I am a child of an immigrant mother and a Swedish father. So I grew up, I guess, multicultural my whole life. I love Sweden and all the beauty of it as a country but as a people, the openness and willingness to always see new things, but also simplicity and equality. That goes across as kind of a red thread throughout our culture and who we are.

Jeanette: 7:27

So loving that part, but also then having a mother who is from Croatia, I got all the sudden Mediterranean blood and habits, family culture with big dinners and I guess you see the hand gestures already coming here. It's not just Italians who have them, the rest of us from down there have them as well. Usually my husband would tell me, like you know, you're a pretty calm person in general, but your Mediterranean blood you can really show it when you, when you drive. So that's seemingly the biggest. You know, that's where I have my biggest up. I like to drive as a one of a sudden Mediterranean person, I guess that's kind of my family.

Jeanette: 8:04

So I'm used to kind of spending my summers down in Croatia and Sweden. So I'm used to that multicultural conference, which I think has absolutely affected me in my work choices, and wanting to work in a global company where you have kind of the whole world as you work in field and you get to meet people from all the cultures who continuously exposed from all that beauty and all the you know, intelligence and all those insights that you get from the whole world, and I just love that part. The other thing is that when you grow up like me, I wasn't out on a country farm so it wasn't that bad but really when you're in a small place like me, in a small village, there isn't too much to do. So you kind of have to kind of grab on to the things that are there to do. So we talked about sports.

Jeanette: 8:45

I have played soccer and ping pong. I've tried almost any sport there is because I just kind of tried it out, because you know just to have something to do and keep myself busy, and I very quickly concluded that my feet are there to run with. They should not do a ball while they're on. That's not my thing, absolutely. I'm not even close to it. So what I've done, I did a lot of swimming in my young up to kind of high schools, which I think I learned a lot around discipline and, you know, pushing through and kind of consistency.

Jeanette: 9:19

And then it worked on with European handball. A lot of Americans wouldn't know but you know the European handball way through something and I really enjoyed getting to love that. I think it was really the team sport. You know part of it and everybody finding their role and their strength in the team and how you play together and kind of leading that and through that also being engaged in anything from scouting to everything that was really in our little village to do. I've been trying it all. But so I think that's my upbringing and then as I grew up, moving to the university as more or less the far away I could from me on my small town just to see, kind of start seeing the world and I guess the rest is history.

Klara: 9:57

I love the variety in sports too, so it seems like running was one that you enjoyed quite a bit when you were young, and I know even actually when we met and you lived in Jersey, you were running some 10K and even perhaps training for half a marathon.

Jeanette: 10:12

Yes, I didn't get further in that, I'm not crazy enough for that, but I got to the half marathon.

Klara: 10:18

I didn't even do the half marathon, I stopped. Actually, I say my feet are now worn out, so I saved them for once. A week running on the court. That's about all they can handle. I actually got one of the cold plunges that you guys have naturally in Sweden and it's more common that people do. The sun and cold plunge Works actually fantastic for my feet and recovering my feet, yeah. But I'm not much of a runner anymore. I used to be, yeah, and I give skiing, so you ski, you're an avid skier.

Jeanette: 10:48

I'm skiing, but I think then again, coming back to kind of map bringing, I'm an outdoorsy person. It might be Swedish and you're far out in the woods, so for me, the natural environment where you go and you don't decompress or get strength, for me it's the woods. I would walk in, out in the woods or even in other lakes. It's always about being outdoors and the finding sports where you get that opportunity to go outdoors is a must for me because I need to get that disconnect, that freshness, fresh air or whatever. That is where you just let your thoughts roam and just be out.

Jeanette: 11:25

So after the winter it is downhill skiing as something I really do love, which has been this appointment in the Toronto winter this year we have had very warm winter, so has been less of that running, simply because not so much because I really enjoy it, if I admit it, but because it may not it does help me and you can do it anywhere. So when you're traveling, everyone has to find their outlet and whatever works with your life, take that and then I'm not as strong as you are, but I do go to the gym because I do believe that there's this strength and heart. You need to do both kind of muscles and cardio. Let's just put it that way. I don't lift as much as you do, but I do a little bit.

Klara: 12:07

Well, I started lifting more because I couldn't run as much, so I had to find a new hobby. I always say injuries make you uncover new sports, because suddenly you realize, oh I can't really do this and what do I fill up my day with and feel like I can progress, and actually that's good in lifting because I second lifting tennis players are some of the worst lifters ever, so I had to learn from the ground up of how to lift heavyweight. So it's something I'm still stuck at. When you look at actually my frame and my body weight and don't lift much weight, it just looks better on videos than the weight probably is, but it's heavy enough for me, and so I always find it's important to create variety and have change in life, especially as we uncover injuries. So I just want to commend you on adding lifting, because I think that's something that especially women underestimate quite a bit and because of the aging not that you would age, you look amazing.

Jeanette: 13:04

No, but it is with aging. I mean I don't take it like, don't worry, I'm fully embracing where I am in life, with all the challenges that might be, and it's absolutely with my age like it becomes more important. But that's I mean we all need to recognize who we are and where we are in life and help yourself the best you can. Appreciate also that you got the life with them in there without even trying to. When you said, like if I'm having an injury, I actually try to do something new. So you know, when the door closes, another one opens and I mean and really see that way not just that you're losing something, but you actually are discovering something new that you might not have otherwise have tried. So you know, I agree with you, that's a very good way of seeing it.

Klara: 13:47

Thank you. Well, it's haven't come without a lot of resistance to injuries and suddenly I realized, you know, beating my head over the wall doesn't really help. I might as well try to create a new door. Oh, that's good, yeah. And so going more into business and technology. Obviously, ericsson is an amazing brand, especially in Sweden. Actually, I left coming to sort of the mothership. When you come to the airport it almost seems like your home is like Ericsson's everywhere. I guess, from even just brand recognition, it makes sense that it will be a fantastic company to work for. But what was your journey? And you have this beautiful convergence of being a business minded leader with understanding of technology. How was that path and journey for you?

Jeanette: 14:35

So I don't think that my journey is a typical Swedish journey into Ericsson, but I'll start with, probably then, what's my more of a driver, because most people you will speak to will say that they come from the technology space, which I did not. I came from the business space and I know already. When I was a kid my mom remembers and she loves to remind me that that I was kind of picking flowers around in the gardens and then I went and sold that to my elderly neighbors as small bouquets. Now we're talking about five years old, so I guess I grew up in a way of always wanting to do something and getting things done. And then, as I grew up, as soon as you could get to work, I've always had all these odd jobs. I've been doing this like a 7-Eleven. I've been doing elderly care, I've been cleaning. I'll be standing in supermarkets, I've been selling clothes, I've been handing a cheese market out on it, like I mean, like all kind of odd jobs I've. You know, I've probably named it and I've probably had it.

Jeanette: 15:36

So I've always enjoyed working and also, especially then I realized working with two different aspects of one is drive business and drive value for whatever customers if they are coming and trying to find a new suit for their sister's wedding or if it's you know, something else is driving them. But that conversation around doing business and doing good business that actually both parties enjoy, that's I realized quickly. I really enjoy that. And then also there's something around that service, that people interaction, of finding that you do something that are value. But then I also wanted to go beyond maybe what we would call fast moving, consuming goods. That's kind of that every day, but something that drives a change, something where you feel like you're influencing where we're heading or what's going on, or the next generation or something that's there to me is around sustainability and how can we affect the, make, you know, the world actually better place.

Jeanette: 16:33

So you know, of course, enter technology because if you look at the tools we have, it's very much around the technology space and that is going to be a prime driver for more or less everything we do in society. So when I got the opportunity to join the area, I came from a business and law. Those were my degrees and you know what I brought in and then I had to model started. I always cut the third education. I had to kind of go on telecoms, one on wow and just start learning again. And then I learned technology. If you look at my peers and colleagues in the company, we have so many amazing experts and this is probably why I'm here. I wasn't 25 years later. I just thrive on the smartness that I see in the company.

Jeanette: 17:16

But I brought another aspect and kind of bringing that together and that's always been my role and that's really why I enjoy it. So when you ask you know why and why here still after all these years, it's really that that I get to really bring that together and it's been in so many different parts of our industry so it's been a typical network type of business but also been on the device side I mean more on consumer research. So there's so many aspects and perspectives on this, how we drive it, that I've been able to engage in. So I've always thought I'll have you know a couple of years and then I probably move on because you know what can I do after that. And somehow I just remained. So that was really not the intention. If I, you know, put it's a blunt, but here I am and that's still why I'm here.

Klara: 18:06

I love hearing you describing it. That really comes comes very authentic. And what comes to mind when I hear you say there's also this reinvention that stands out to me about you because, as you mentioned, every role you've had at Ericsson, it seems like, was different than the previous one, and so Ericsson is such a huge company and obviously now we're Ericsson I've still talked about we. Okay, I'm not at Ericsson anymore.

Jeanette: 18:33

I think I'll work there for too long.

Klara: 18:35

I appreciate it. I appreciate it.

Jeanette: 18:37

Thank you.

Klara: 18:38

And Ericsson is not in device anymore. There was a Sony Ericsson venture right there where fantastic phones I did have one of my first ones was the Sony Ericsson and people still remember that often but there's many different groups and it seems like your versatility through had your career and probably related to curiosity and learning, kind of helped you push yourself out of the comfort zone and try something new to where you're now at amazing position. I do want to highlight President Situ, jeanette, if there is a petition for the Ericsson CEO, I'll sign it and I know many people would as well. I think your attributes of leaderships are fantastic, but it's not supposed to be compliment. I mean it is, but it's a reality. I don't say things anymore that I truly don't mean, and so when you look at your career, maybe even I'll take you back.

Klara: 19:35

You started at Ericsson as a contract manager for the Nordics and Baltic regions, which was a really exciting time. 3g and building out 3G networks right, that's where a lot of growths have happened in telecom. And you close the first 3G deal in Nordics, building one of your first 3G networks in all of Sweden, and first on network, which is very complex, actually co-ownership for anybody who understands Telco, between the two competing operators, telya and Telethu. And so, if you look at that and their reinvention to where you at now, what are some of the key aspects you would want to highlight about your roles that you perhaps really found enjoyable and things that you've learned oh, this is actually super fun and maybe even things that didn't come as naturally to you, that you had to perhaps learn their harder way.

Jeanette: 20:33

Those are so many things at the same time, so you guide me if I get stuck on something, and I would say that it was early on.

Jeanette: 20:41

I had leaders that had the confidence in throwing me into things that I didn't know, but they were kind of there to pick me up if I needed it. So I think that just knowing that you had that support and early on and being unafraid, I mean I still have that. What is the worst thing? I mean I know I'm never going to do something that is unethical. So the worst thing that can happen to me is that I get fired, and if I get fired I'll find a new job. It's just what's the worst things that can happen to you if you stand up for something you think is right and you do what you need to do for whatever that is.

Jeanette: 21:16

So sometimes you need to just put things in perspective and think about that, and I think that there's different ways of now. Maybe I'm not answering your question, I'm going sideways here. Then you just pull me back. But there's something about how you think about a career and often I struggle with meeting especially, I think, north American young people, because they're so determined and they have such ambitions and they already can put in words. There are those ambitions of whether they're heading and I come and you know, I'm like 50 years old and I can still not put it in words and I'm like I have no idea how they do it and I certainly didn't do that there. It's like how do you, how can you be so certain of all these things that you want and where you're going? So I think then it becomes maybe more easier for me. It wasn't that way.

Jeanette: 22:01

I'm more learned where I, where I enjoyed myself, what I thought was fun, and that was very much like I said creating new business, driving value, finding where I was thinking, okay, I can make impact, I'll make a change here, I can add something. And then I drive and really learning new things, which means that I have always I don't know if I want to recommend this to anyone, but I've always taken on jobs where I don't really know it, like I'm really not certain about this thing and I am really uncomfortable, and some jobs have been like really pushing it. Getting this job was absolutely pushing it, cause I was like what do I do now? And it was in the midst of the COVID. I was sitting in Texas and I was starting to lead a Canadian organization which is like how do you do that? I had been in sales and marketing and all these roles and then a leader entrusted me to take an operational role which meant that I was going to start building networks. I had a part at. I drive in a car, blue color, people were, you know, at climbing towers. I know nothing about it and still I went out to do it and I think it's about what drives you.

Jeanette: 23:13

I really want to understand some as much as possible about what we do and really know, because when you do, you can show much higher respect to all of these different aspects and the trades that are going on in the company and you can be a better leader. I don't need to know exactly how a certain product is developed or how somebody's operating a certain system. It's okay if I don't, but I understand the complexity of their world, which means I can help them do their jobs, hopefully, in a better way and continue to be better, and we can all kind of be better together. So I think it's like that constant canyons and being okay with being fully uncomfortable in something and knowing you are not the best, probably even the worst in the team on something, and they have to kind of teach you and then trust that somebody will help you and teach you. So just to prove my point in this, I felt that in my role now I'm continuing to try to learn things, obviously, but often you know it also becomes intellectual.

Jeanette: 24:21

So back to what you said about sports etc. So I'm like I really need to push myself in being more uncomfortable. So you know between you and me what I did I started dancing. So here I am dancing and I'm trying to dance like the Buchada and all these kind of things and, like Shania Twain, these hips are not lying, my arms are not lying, they will not move, it is not happening Like. It's like so uncomfortable for me, but I'm like I need to be comfortable being uncomfortable and also knowing that so many people around me, when I'm throwing out ask or I don't think people to do things.

Jeanette: 24:57

We're all kind of in that environment continuous, and especially in an industry like this that is changing so fast and we never really know what's coming our way then we all we know is that a year from now our business looks different. We just continuously need to be comfortable with that uncertainty, etc. So I think that that's maybe what's been driving me is really I really love to learning things and push and be better and kind of get there. So I've had the breath. Others might be going much more into depth. I don't have enough patience for that. That would never work for me and I know that.

Jeanette: 25:29

So it's depending on who you are, where do you thrive and how do you learn and what really makes you tick and drive. That's the way you look at your career. But if you ask me, like did I have a plan of going for a certain role? Like just closing that first contract in 3G, you having two competitors fighting over them, trying negotiate and close a deal, no, but I realized I loved it. I loved the negotiation part. I thought it was the most fun thing ever and, you know, getting to a final point where everybody was happy like that was, you know, fantastic. So you need to kind of know this but then decide from there and maybe not make your decisions or your plans according to an organization or a title or I don't know whatever, because those are just temporary, always temporary. But think about what you get to do and what you learn and how you contribute. I think that's much more important.

Klara: 26:26

You touched on several things in your description. Now that I had written down and I actually want to tie them to some of my secret helpers that shared amazing tips. I can totally understand stepping into such a big role. I mean COVID for anyone was threatening enough and now people are worried across board for not even obviously their jobs, economy and being able to have their livelihood, but their health and health of their loved ones. And, at least from my view, you've been always very hands-on or kind of personal leader. You actually like to what I mean by that. You like to meet your team and you like to really get to know them, who they are, and so one of my friends you actually may know she said I can share her name with sell. So you've been so amazing during the COVID times, especially like balancing the COVID economic shift, remote teams, which is so hard to create this good impact and bond over virtual calls. I still love meeting people.

Klara: 27:34

3d in like the real version. I don't think anything can really fully replace it. Let's see if the ARVR will do its justice with the even Apple vision for all new glasses and spatial computing. How do you balance that? I do see that as your strength and even tying on your muta cultural perspective and what you have this taking people as individuals for kind of who they are and where they come from, but being able to inspire them to even stretch themselves beyond their comfort zone. There was another of your. Your direct reports shared with me some amazing insights about your intuitive net. Has it been something that you had to train or do you think, throughout a lot of the cultural upbringing that you have had, it came quite naturally to you?

Jeanette: 28:26

Firstly, of course, thank you for those kind words. The way I've been brought up is really that I'm not limited in any way. Maybe in behavior, certain ways you need to behave, maybe, and respect others, and all of those things which I think are very sound values. But there's never been a limit to what I can or cannot do or what I should or should not do that would have a content like a cultural context or a gender context or any of that. I've never had that. So for me those limits don't exist. So if I just put that away to begin with, then when I meet the person there, you will have a few.

Jeanette: 29:07

Of course there will be exceptions, but I would say the majority of people I always meet always underestimate how much and what they can do, how good they are, what they can achieve, what they can bring to a conversation, what they just bring by being themselves. Almost everyone underestimates that and that for me is always so interesting when I meet them. So this thing about bringing out what's best in people, that's, you know, obviously one of the absolute best part being a people either. That's why I mean this is the best part of my job. But then I think there's something else. It's something around, and you know you brought up with a golden rule, so always think about how you treat others. Treat others as you want to be treated yourself, and I fully subscribe to it.

Jeanette: 29:58

But I think that there's more to say to that, and so I think that I'm applying the golden rule with a twist, and my twist is that I believe that you need to treat every person you meet the way they need to be treated.

Jeanette: 30:13

And for me, that is when I meet you, clara, how I know you, so I kind of know it's easier.

Jeanette: 30:19

But if I meet somebody else with other needs, depending on where they are in their lives, we all come with so much history and at that specific point in life you're probably having so much with you. So it's about how do you take that person for where they are right now, with all the challenges, all the duties and everything that's in them, and kind of make the best for them. And it's not about what I would have done, because that does, at least in general, like well, I would have done and have a long list of things I could tell. But that's not the point. The point is not what I would have done or who I am. It's like, how do you take this person and just let them elevate when you have that meeting with somebody, it's just that, that opportunity to see that person flourish and go somewhere else, that I just that's for me pure beauty and love it and you're so good at it I guess even highlight even now what I have felt.

Klara: 31:14

Your presence and this is another comment that came from my friends, helpers, sending me many different emails you're so good as a leader to paying attention to that scenario, team, individual, kind of, whatever setting you're at, and your presence is always so strong and so fell that I know actually many times, when we had even mentorship meetings, I felt so bad after because I just kept going on and you just kind of let me keep going. I think you, you were 30 minutes late for just another meeting and but how do you practice that? Or has that been a skill that has been born in you would say again, through your upbringing, or you have worked on refining through? How do you career?

Jeanette: 31:59

I don't know. I wish I had a smaller answer. I really don't know.

Jeanette: 32:03

I think the pure interest and my absolutely ground belief is that people are good and people want to do good and they want to do better, sometimes to my detriment. I come from a place of trust. If I meet a person, I just assume anyone in my was and they're here because they're smart, they are learned a lot, they have had to prove themselves a lot like there's, like they have all these things, they're all the qualifications for everything. So then it's just like allowing them to kind of continue that path. So I think like that for me is kind of the basics. That's where I come from.

Jeanette: 32:38

But then I think that the holder you get and the more you can put your ego to the side or you know, you can let things go, the easier it is to let others come forward or help them, etc. I mean, I've been doing all these things, I've had this fantastic experience. I, you know, now it's for me is to find the next ones that are coming in. Those are 20 years young and me now I'm like, guys, now you need to come and take over, like that's my job, that's more my job than anything else. So I think it's a little bit of age and experience. I think you know it gets easier, but I mean from the beginning it has to be somehow, I guess, an interest and our people and you know, just as much as I'm curious in learning for my own sake, I guess I'm just as curious about people and that might come from that I'm always been mixing cultures and people and traveled.

Jeanette: 33:33

You know I traveled during my whole my whole the university years. My kids always make fun of me because I maxed out my years at university but it was often because I started double and then I traveled is it my turn? And then I started double again, just just to try to get in so many trips as possible in it, just to go out and you know and see and experience that. So I think that's maybe the basics of it, but then there's no specific. I wish I said trick or something. I even thought about that. I'm doing. It is that's probably just me it is you.

Klara: 34:09

Actually, I have to say it's from my experience in working on teams under many different leaders. This quality is just much different for you than some of the other leaders I have worked under. Not to be sexist, but I have to bring this up because I do find that the scale seems to be more common for at least some of the women leaders I have seen or I have worked under, and so at Ericsson there actually haven't been that many, so being privileged to see and experience your leadership meant a lot. And then I've seen kind of just whole other variety at Apple. That looks very different, but I find this more common with some of the strong women leaders we're able to step into almost like more different leadership styles and variety of leadership styles. Then perhaps some of the man leaders have seen and observe, I think you're probably right, and I think it's.

Jeanette: 35:10

It's not because women or men are better leaders or for different reasons, but I think there's something to be said about the context, how we grow up and I think that is we are, and at least maybe my generation and like we're brought up in certain type of context, and how the typical behaviors are and what they are, and it allows us, if we dare to, as women or as men, like it allows us different spectras, probably as well, to how we can act. So as a woman, I can be maybe a lot of things that a man is not typically supposed to be or can allow himself. So the the the spectrum of how you can behave or act in your leadership looks a bit different. I think. I think it is changing.

Jeanette: 35:57

If I look at young international as we're coming up, but I think that as we grew up, that was kind of it. So a man who is my like, a white, middle-aged man, you know, I they probably are, you know, supposed to be in a certain way, like they feel that there are also certain expectations, while I have more freedom in certain aspects, while there are other limitations I absolutely have. So I think it's something there as well, that we could have many more men that could be there, but it's not really how it's been and or even how we've been raised, and I think we'll probably see maybe a change there, as we're seeing change in leadership overall, mm-hmm and just to tie on one more that I find you do fantastic, and again it relates to this ability to stretch, to different types of leaderships.

Klara: 36:48

Understand, even at Ericsson, and some of the things I had to learn a lot is how do I become a different type of leader? And I know being part of a lot of even just the women group or really whichever group they are. Most of these groups we feel like there are some things that we're not being valued enough or we want more opportunities for progress. So if you look at Echor's the board, actually the problems are the same no matter which group you're part of. But one of the things, especially for women and what seems to be a mob, and even I struck with it myself is like there's this type of person and this is not me which I kind of disagree. I think it's a lot of applying skill set and so sorry that's a long-winded lead.

Klara: 37:33

But to say, one of the things that I really appreciate about you that helped me understand is your calmness under pressure and never being emotionally sort of out of control.

Klara: 37:44

And so me, being from a family I'm Czech ever my listeners know that, but I would say my Czech family was almost like Italians. It was always just wild, like there's you know chair being thrown out of the windows at some points of my you know live with that was just totally fine. So I've always grown up around a lot of type of drama, sort of argue, and so if you see that happening in your upbringing it wires you a certain way, and so seeing your steady women leadership that is still feminine, but being able to step into this direct, confident and assertive leader when you have to you, was so game-changing for me and it's I don't want to say I have it down, I'm practicing of how to get there and when to get there. But how was that skill for you, and is that something that you had to refine or specific instances that helped you understand how and when to step into those type of shoes, to be more direct and assertive in those conversations and don't let your emotions escalate when I was at university.

Jeanette: 38:58

It was a business course and one of the things we got was to look at commercials and ads and then we would supposed to be doing this group work around and present.

Jeanette: 39:08

Was it a good or a bad one, so to say, and why why not? So we got the one, and please do not laugh now, but we got the Swedish bikini team in the US about beer. So now I'm aging myself, I guess, because that was the case and you know we went into this and we were like looking at it and we had all our arguments but why this was a terrible commercial and they don't the goods and the baths, the ethics, more like all of those things and went into presenting this and had a discussion and we were absolutely killed in all our reasoning, in our ways of presenting it, etc. In our argumentation, and not because we were wrong, because in the end everybody, like once we were done like that, like you're actually right, this is terrible thing and for all the reasons we had, but the way we went to it and the way we approached this was emotional mm-hmm it was not objectively, it was not with, you know, some kind of facts and base on what we were doing and the why, the wrongs or however.

Jeanette: 40:14

We went into it emotionally and also assuming that everybody felt, as we did, kind of motion Lee about it, and now in that room more or less everyone did. But it doesn't mean that everybody in the world would do that, or in the US or whatever market I would be or whatever, because in that culture context maybe that would have been okay. I don't know. But it was such a pivot to point in my mind, like, as much as I believe something is fair or unfair, the way I go about it and the way I have to present it has to be an objective truth for whoever is the reader. So it's always about your audience, it's always about what you want to achieve. So if I take you back to when I do at work and if I need to achieve something, if I'm in this business presence and I'm having what I would say some Crazy augmentation back at me or people are all over the place, I'll just absorb, I'll take it, but I'm not going to lose focus on what is it that I need to achieve and where am I going? And then I take it, absorb it some of it. I just like, okay, whatever, and I just leave it. It doesn't bother me because I know where I need to go and I take, and I just need to take people to that place. So my job as a leader and we have this brain is psychology student in Sweden. Anna Tobelius is great and one of the things is like you always have to be the safest person in the room and I think that's a fantastic expression and that's my job. My job is not just there to hand out money or make decisions or like all that as well, but it is very much, especially when it is crisis, when there is a lot of emotions or a lot of uncertainties. It could be in that at the end, you just pause the conversation and you leave it and you come back and you take it again, because sometimes you just need to get everything to. You know all the feelings, how to kind of go home, sleep on it, and then we come back and you know sometimes that's it and just make a no decision, but for a good reason. That's my job is to be that person in that room and my job is to look at. Where are we having? Where do we need to go and what do we need? Who are the people I need to get with me? Who are the people who need to understand this? The whole noise of emotions and all these other things. I don't have the luxury to care for that because that's not going to take us to where we want. So I think from that point of view I guess you know that's probably perceived calm For me, it's very determined and very focused for what I want to do, and you also need to have in mind that when you do this, it's very easy to leave a lot of casualties.

Jeanette: 42:50

So I think that's. Another part for me is that when you do it this way, you need to be extremely respectful of listening to people and I say you know, thank you, I hear you at this point I will not bring that in or we will have to leave this here at the side. We can revisit it, but you need to respectful as well, because there are emotions, so you need to kind of bring that in and let them be there. Sometimes you just need to have a blowout and people like you, they just need to get it out of the system and that's OK. Like I totally get it. Like you know, like I have teenagers, I know that it's OK and then you kind of, ok, fair enough, and then you have to address the situations that needs to be handled.

Jeanette: 43:29

So it's not my intention not to seem like I don't care of people's emotions or not acknowledging that it's all there. But I also understand that it doesn't help anyone anyone if I engage in it. So I simply want and we really had one of our previous job in the team we had our slogan or like tagline whenever there were so much things going on and I just like we don't do drama. So when everything's happened we just look at each other and it's like we don't do drama and it just went away, because sometimes you don't realize that you're getting into it. So that was maybe a long and winding answer to your question and reasoning that I think that's, you know, for me a very pragmatic way as well of addressing everything that's going on. That I think it's been most beneficial for me and usually works well for me.

Klara: 44:33

But so many things you have shared, definitely observe that. It almost reminds me like when I think about it during these conversations or instances be like water, and that's what you kind of mentioned water, just observe everything and let it kind of float with it. And you have to float out Because if you start, as you mentioned, participating in drama, it just always escalate like there's no other way to deal. Escalate drama. I don't like walk away and don't participate in drama. So one of the other things that I always think about panic. When everybody else is panicking, the best thing that we can do is not panic and just be calm and everybody else will sort of feel the energy.

Klara: 45:15

Even I guess this relates to me and just to explain from tennis court how I tied it back Because even in tennis, when there's two people on the court, even for people who are spectators, you typically sense in the body language like who's up and winning. Even from the screen you can actually see the energy. It's one of the things that is very transferable for people and the human eye sort of catches. And so that's why sometimes even people say body language, like when you're on the court competing, even if you don't believe in yourself. Sometimes I have to remind myself the other person doesn't know what I'm thinking. As far as my body language is still intact and I'm pretending I'm confident, it's fine. That's what they think and that's what I need them to think. So that's all that. I guess how I rewired and tried to think about the aspect that I need to take into important meetings or meetings that I foresee could be a lot of conflict, and thank you again for the inspiration on that, jeanette.

Jeanette: 46:12

Maybe just to I was just going to say it's a little bit of the strength that you're showing there is to take adversity and just absorb it and let it go, because every day there's going to be a thousand things that doesn't go the way I wanted it to go, like you just have to deal with it. Okay, just take it on, what does that mean? And then you move on, absorb it, let it go and then you move on, because there's going to continuously be things that you're not winning that game. It's going to be something. You're going to hurt yourself, we're going to step wrong and that's going to happen. So still carrying your body is still feel strong. That is quite important to if you're going to endure any of these type of jobs, like we have.

Klara: 46:52

Yeah, so tying on your leadership principles, maybe it could be a good sequence, because you shared one. We don't do drama. Do you have any specific leadership principles that you share with your teams? Or you have guttered again, as you shared some of the learnings and observations you've had throughout your career, that you care with you and you typically want your team to know? This is how I work, this is how I operate or this is how we should think about doing things.

Jeanette: 47:21

There's so many different things. I think there's something about fairness how you treat people. Always treat people in the same way, like no matter whoever they are in the company, whatever role they're doing, their contribution is just as important. So you're always having that fairness around people and I guess that's maybe the quality. We talked a little bit before, like about the quality of people. Good people always come back to you. Here we are sitting, even if you tried to move as far away as possible, and still here you are. Good people come back to you, but people in general. So treat people with respect, because they will certainly. People are back in life.

Jeanette: 48:03

There's something around karma. I'm not a Buddhist, etc. But there's something around karma. So you do treat people in a certain way and I expect everybody around me to be extremely respectful to each other, even when they disagree. That's okay, they can disagree all day long, but they are respectful and they are going to be professional to each other and I expect everyone to be that in whatever circumstances.

Jeanette: 48:26

That is, and simply also coming back to that, we all carry our own history and put our own different backgrounds. So, especially here in Canada, where we have an extreme diversity, you need to make sure that you really are taking care of that and being that person, I have some strong fundamentalism, a little bit about discipline. When it comes to respect, it's also about being respectful of doing what is expected from you and doing it in time and quality, because others are dependent on you. So how do you ensure that you actually help others and allow others to be in collaboration? Because in the end, it's a team, so if I'm not doing my part, then it quickly starts falling apart the weakest in the link in the chain. There's a lot to be said. I think about that and depends on context. I probably highlight different things.

Klara: 49:16

Yeah, and I think I can talk about you and leadership forever and we only have limited time, so I do also want to transfer a little bit more to technology, because that's another I sense we're undermining. We have strong women in tech and sometimes we tend to marginalize ourselves on just some portion of how to manage our career and leadership. And so you have such an amazing view into Telcom. The Telcom as an industry has been under tremendous pressure for solar years, including obviously because of the business economic downturn globally overall, and now actually there's becoming a 6G hype. So I'm actually curious about your view of the industry. What is the reality you're seeing?

Jeanette: 50:04

When things are changing and when they change fast, you know we all get very nervous Because the carousel is moving faster and faster. Do I hold on? Do I get off? How do I survive this? You know another ride, but it's in the DNA of the whole engineering culture of finding new problems to solve in new ways. You know that's the challenge of it. So I think that we are in the industry that is changing very much, but it's been changing the whole time. We always say that the change has never been as fast as now and I'm like, yeah, well, we can repeat that every month because that's kind of how it feels.

Jeanette: 50:41

It's not for the faint of heart to work in this industry by all means. And I do believe that we will see a continuous change into if knowledge will be opening up and more. We talk about more of a more open type of systems and architectures. And, yes, we will absolutely see. There we will see new stakeholders and we will see all ones disappear, as we've been seeing over and over the years. I mean, that's how our competitive landscape is changing and that will continue to be so. We are seeing new technologies being introduced.

Jeanette: 51:14

Of course, now the world is all about AI and how is that going to change our business and the technology and what we do? And of course it will. I think it will both go faster and slower than we expect in certain ways. From a bigger sense, maybe go faster, but in the smaller sense, like how do we get it and how do we use it to the benefit of all that in our products and all our systems? How do we avoid the biases? How do we build organizations to actually understand what they're doing? All of that is going to take time. At the same time, we will see all of this, all these things happening and what you can actually do with it. Some of these changes were seen and come, but there needs to be critical mass of competence that knows what to do with it before it becomes prevalent, and we are far away from that. So I think there will be as much as somebody like me are dabbling with trying to figure out what AI in general is and I can use. I mean, it's going to be in the new generation growing up. Like you know, talk to my kids or teenagers. To them it's natural, it's a part of how they study or how they do something or how they work. It's just there, it's natural. So we will see that that will also happen, but it takes some time. So I think that's the beauty of being in an industry like ours that what we do is so fundamental of how we as a community not like operators and vendors, but as a community how we function.

Jeanette: 52:47

Communication is a basic human need. I mean, I know that's an air-sum tag, but for me that's really how it is. It is no matter what we say. And then the way we communicate has changed over time. Now we're not using the drums or don't have smoke signals, but it's a long way. But there's continuous change and that will continue changing. We will be part of it.

Jeanette: 53:06

But you continuously need to have smart people that are in the fore from driving that technology, making use of that technology, knowing how to operate it, how to turn it around into something that we can use, and I know that's. You know more where you're at than kind of that last user interface in front of the customer. What are the devices, what are all those things? How do we take it out? But I see that this industry is probably going through a change, but it's somewhat not more nor less than all the changes we've seen so far, but just because we're living it right now, it feels so much bigger and so much different. I think that we will.

Jeanette: 53:45

We have much more to learn and see before we know what's going to be there, but I'm really curious what we're going to be in five years If it went as fast or as slow, as you know, as we're looking at it both at the same time. So there are some of the things that are very much affecting us, but in the end, this is something that is here to stay, and then everyone might look different, with different stakeholders, absolutely, and then that will continue to change. That's just the business environment. It's not. That's business as usual. But that's the beauty. Why it's so much fun to be in this industry is because we know that we're making a change and you know, and it's not you know personally, but also you know, obviously, the society, and then you know how do we driving, you know good chains and making you know the world maybe a better place. Even so, you know it's hard not to be fascinated.

Jeanette: 54:37

Yeah, on that note, anything specifically you want to call out that you're personally optimistic about and this can be technology or the gen AI conversions of the two or kind of overall things that you're looking at personally and you're playing with I'm trying to learn a little bit more on the AI side, simply because my key things that I'm such a I guess dinosaur I don't know much about it, so you know I'm trying to understand better there, but put them particularly in trade-a-bud is that it's so much more about what individuals can learn and figure out on their own. It's like there are more and more tools for the individual to find new ways of developing and finding new areas. So we talk about open APIs and opening up networks. You can actually pull out some of the capabilities and then you will do your thing and you will find a new use case. You will find new areas and new ways of using this network that as maybe as a bigger company, as you're working on infrastructure, you won't be able to see that or find that.

Jeanette: 55:43

Also, the young generation is so much more used to just going in and doing it on their own. They're not scared that they're going to break something. They're just interested in what they will find. So they will be pushing the limits and finding all of these things on their own. So I believe there's so many things that will not be driven by a company as such or a company in base, but rather it's going to come from all the users out there and that is going to be very interesting to see.

Klara: 56:10

So it seems like you're putting more and more power to the user to figure out. If you had this information, what can you create from it, which I see the trend. I still follow Telcom and Ericsson, so understand the bondage and some of the announcements there, as well as the cradle point and what you are guys doing actually overall in the enterprise. So it makes sense.

Klara: 56:32

On the opposite side you have a big drop, so hopefully you sleep well, but if there are some things that are keeping you up at night again, hopefully there's not too many of them. Are there specific things that you're most concerned about when it comes to, again, this convergence of future technology? There's been a lot of talks of this leaving the Gen AI and the threat of this technology, and that it will replace and maybe get rid of humans at some point on its own, when it become fully aware of us and want to take over the world. What's your vision?

Jeanette: 57:06

as I don't have that dystopian view of life and our future really at this point, I have to say. But I do understand the people would be fearful on some of these things, simply because when you let loose some of the tools in the world and you don't know where it can end, it's scary and we've seen that through history. Alfred Nobel he invented the dynamite to create tunnels so we could build better infrastructure and in the end, here we were with bombs and it was used in the war. So of course, you can always find those examples of when technology is out there to be used, it will always be misused as well. So, absolutely so I think that if there's anything that keeps me up is that how do we introduce some of these areas responsibly and how do we take responsibility on how we use them and how it's done? I do believe that we do try. We had some examples here with some of the bigger players trying to counteract and work with biases in the Google IIs and others, and it didn't really go well. So of course, there will be back classes people saying, well, now you're trying to take it too far. So I think we have a journey of learning, of trying to figure out how we do this in the best way, and I think we need to allow ourselves to have that journey. When we introduce these tools, how do we usually do that in a fair and good way, without the biases and all the risks there? So I think that's something that we need to. But it also be that this is also the younger generation that's so important, because they come in and they work with it as a tool of creating good things. If it's in their chemistry class or they're discussing biology or if it is something around history and trying to find the context, and they're working on it and they critically examining what they're finding through these tools. For them it's different. They use it as something, as it's not just something you add on top of and then it becomes a threat that you don't have control over. It's something that is in their control and how they use it. So, as much as it keeps me a little bit up at night that I'm concerned that some of these tools, we don't really know what we're doing with it, I also believe that there are there's this what I've been told by the critical mass of competence coming as a genre that know, and they really know how to deal with it well and they are comfortable with it. But absolutely, I think that there is word of caution, but we have gone through the industry one at a, two, three shifts from machine to a person and we're going another shift now.

Jeanette: 59:45

I'm sure that we as humanity will survive this as well and I'm sure we will find good ways of doing it. And I actually do believe it's absolutely needed and we absolutely need this to come in and help us, because we have a population that is growing older and older. We will absolutely need, if it's robots or any help we can get in elderly care. How do we take care of all the people that will be older and they need to be taken care of? There are just so many areas where I think that it's absolutely necessary to get this into our. You know, inter-assistance, the ways of working and everything, and we won't have enough people to do all these things. So I think there's absolutely going to be a shift, or maybe what kind of competences, jobs, all of that that will be happening, but that's okay. That's how we do shifts and that's progression. Of course, it's going to be painful points, but it's still progression and I often think about it, like when I talk to my kids about jobs that they want to have.

Jeanette: 1:00:46

When I grow up, like you know, you could be a lawyer, you could do business, you could do doctor, and like it was very clear, like it was. You know, this was the many jobs you could get more, like more or less. And then you chose. And when I talk to my kids today about what are they going to be and what are the educations, like I mean, it's just like you know, it's a buffet of all these things and all these things they want to do. As you know, I have a daughter that's very artistic. If you were an artist, like when you were a kid, when I was young, like you were just going to be a poor artist at the best, like that was not a pursuit you could have. And today, of course, you have animation, you have the movies, you have all these amazing things.

Jeanette: 1:01:30

So it's like how can I even guess what she's going to be? And it's the same I see now when we see all these other shifts with all these new took models coming. It's going to open up so many new areas of works and roles and competent, all these things that people can do. It's going to be painful for us Some of us are a bit older, that you know, have lived through a life with certain competences, and it's a shift, but in the end I think it's going to work out. There's always, you know, a little bit of pain in those shifts, but you know it's going to open up so many new things that I can't even I wouldn't even try to guess today what that means. I think that's why I say I sleep pretty well at night. Yeah, I think that's good.

Klara: 1:02:14

We need sleep, especially as we grow older. Not again that you would age I age for sure. So I do need to sleep more than, let's say, even in my 20s, or I recognize that I get more around.

Jeanette: 1:02:27

Can I push back to you? Sorry I'm interrupting you and but I know that you're going to soon tell me that we can't talk more. So you are a young, very strong female leader in everything you do, even if it's direct or indirect, and you are a fantastic role model. I think for people around you that you are also very daring on taking on your roles and you jump on things and you learn new. So all the good things you have said to me, I think, during this conversation, absolutely want to just give that back to you, that it is a joy to see you and see how you have flourished and learned and dare to new things and nonetheless doing this, what you're doing right now, and going on an adventure and just starting this up. And now it's the month of International Women's Day, it's our month, so I'm going to claim us a little bit of a space here, for you and me.

Jeanette: 1:03:22

How do you see your future and ours, and what can we do to make it better for you and yours alike?

Klara: 1:03:32

Wow, that's a good question. I actually really believe that the biggest problems are always in our own minds, like as women, we are our worst enemies often and I speak from experience from myself and actually even the experience and you've personally know many of the experiences that I've had, and it goes all the way to my upbringing and childhood I think the problem that we have is actually we put the problem in the context of kind of what we call it, sex or gender, and so actually, even looking back at my career, I've created this sort of view of it as versus them, sometimes like it's women versus men. But then, like, looking back, I was absolutely not correct, because I've had some amazing men leaders and I've had some not so great leaders, but it's also because of, I would say, statistics. So if you apply just a few statistics, if you're on average in an industry, that is, you work mostly with men, you unfortunately going to probably come up to worse experiences that really too many, just because you meet so many more, and so this is even something that we all have in our own minds, and so one of the things is really just things I've been personally practicing, and I actually want to even suggest listeners to go back to episode with Eve I think she said it even better than I would say but being confident in what we can do. Sometimes it's even just being present. The Amy Cuddy Ted Talk if anybody listened to it is still one of my favorite Ted Talks.

Klara: 1:05:21

You actually said it in this podcast not putting our own boundaries in front of us and what we can and cannot achieve, because some of the best results were literally things that I could never think that I can do, including actually this podcast. I was terrified when I started, like the first episode took me five months to lunch and now I'm like, oh my God, I'm so excited. So anything is a skill and you sort of practice. So try the things that scare you, things that you have been practicing actually in your career, jeanette, and practice being your advocate. And the way to do that is really be authentic and finding things that are true to you and if you do it in the right way, I think a lot of people will realize that they're authentic and they're true to you and they're coming from the right place and hopefully will then help perhaps even join the movement or be your cheerleaders behind the closed door, when nobody's there and you're not in the room. I think that's mostly what we women can do. And I actually want to look at it from the other side because, looking at my own journey, that generation journey coming from a super small village, just the progress we women have made is impressive.

Klara: 1:06:33

My grandma run the whole family. She was like a master home educator. She raised like seven, eight kids, made sure everybody's fed. Always people came there gathered. She had scheduled for everybody and remembered who has what. My mom is a small business owner, one of the most successful women in the area we live in. I run business globally and my sister is financing business in some of the largest companies that we can ever dream of. So if you just look at like the trajectory of the four generations of, like my grandma, from communist era to all the way to my sister, on all that she will achieve, it's fantastic and so maybe it's just more naive. But I think again it's more of us throwing our own barriers in front of ourselves. But let me stop there, jeanette. What do we want to add or change?

Jeanette: 1:07:27

I'm listening to you under. There's so much to be said, so this should be a separate part of someone's own, I think. But there is something I want to address that maybe that I do believe that some is overused and we all often talk about the imposter syndrome. So, like I said, you come into this room and you have this feeling, oh, I'm probably not good enough, I don't feel this and we will get this, and I really don't believe in it. I don't believe there is an imposter syndrome in that sense, because I have never met a person and mostly women, let's talk about it and I would say that any underrepresented group that comes into a room with all these other that is not good enough, not ready enough, is not brave enough. They would be in that room otherwise, and because I know it's so much harder for that person to be in that room than for probably for everyone else. So for me there's that imposition. That is something that we have been told that we are feeling because we're not fitting in, but then I'm like, no, it's not, it has nothing to do with that person. It is then a systemic problem. So then it's a problem of inclusion.

Jeanette: 1:08:46

So, as much as we talk about diversity and that we need to love everybody in there. We need to include them. Everybody needs to be feel included at their own merits, at this, as who they are, the fully authentic Clara who's coming in with all, all the things she is, and when we do that, there's really no imposter syndrome why would there be one? But it's something that we continuously are taught that that's our problem. So we need to be a little bit more of this or that. We need to lean in a little bit more. We need to speak up a little bit more. We need to.

Jeanette: 1:09:23

I don't know whatever it is and I'm like, no, no, I don't think so. Well, I mean, each and everyone has things to work on. It might be that you need to speak up a bit more, you need to sound like everyone else has something to work on, but don't don't be made to believe it's because you don't fit in or you shouldn't be there, or you are not really there for whatever reason. Like that needs to go away, like anyone who feel that they're in an unrepresentative group. Here is gender. You are part of it and we need to foster that inclusivity into it.

Jeanette: 1:09:59

We can't just say we're going to have diversity and then we don't include people and allow them to be themselves without them having to prove it, and then we have to prove them having to prove themselves in a certain context, in a certain environment, then we haven't really made no progress. So I think it's like when you come into that room next time and if somebody said, oh, I'm feeling very much impulsive syndrome, which I have used myself just to work clear, I'm going to be like why, why would I, why does that make anyone feel like that? That's one of the things I'm going to try to fight is that I have women that use us, that they feel that, and I'm going to say why. And if that's the case, and then if I can affect the environment, then it's for me, then it's my problem. It's not this whoever it is joining the team is problem.

Klara: 1:10:45

That can be a whole other episode for imposter syndrome, because I have very strong feelings about it. I didn't know what imposter syndrome is or was until more of like the US academia pushed it into my head and I feel like it's being pushed on us women in all of the training, leadership meetings, so much more and to a point where everybody can probably hear I'm frustrated about it Because I think everyone in their life at some point men and women included have felt, have felt, incapable and lacking confidence, and the reason is it doesn't even why I don't know if, why even like matters. So what Like you feel like you're scared. Just do it anyways. I think that's how, again, you learn and step into the next step. So going back practicing might not be emotional Well, I am. So there's still some things that really make me emotional.

Klara: 1:11:38

Imposter syndrome is one of the things that I'm still trying to find way how to actually be on the reverse side and don't push it on women and so I love it Totally with you and actually, on that, one of the things in comments that, again, one of my helpers shared here is about how great you are with inviting people to speak up and this inclusiveness again that opening the room where people are feeling like they're being accepted and appreciated. Are there any tips you want to share that leaders can take on? A practice that you're aware that you use, that have worked the best for you?

Jeanette: 1:12:24

Be present when you meet somebody. I mean I don't fill in my phone. If I do, I mean then I'm lost. Like, be present when you have a person and you have them in front of you and you have their time, make the most of it, not just listening, but hear them and really understand what you're doing.

Jeanette: 1:12:43

I also come from a place of belief rather than disbelief. So be kind, be generous to the person that you meet them. Just assume the best and allow them maybe to grow from there, because if you come from that place and people feel like you're there to that you trust them and that you're there to help them and that you're actually interested in what they're saying, you will get the best out of anyone. So for me it's really. But being just present and allowing that person you have in front of you to be all that you are now focusing on listening on, and they are the ones that are most important for you at this time. That makes it so much easier, and that's really true, because when you are interacting with somebody, that's how it should be. If you are somewhere else, then politely say sorry, I need to do something different. That's okay. I mean that happens. But when you are with somebody, treat them with all respect you can and just make them be the most important person because they are in that conversation you have.

Klara: 1:13:49

I agree On that note. We have about a minute before you have to leave Anything else. Jeanette, do you want to leave listeners with? I think that alone should be a fantastic advice for anybody to practice in 2024 and skill that I feel like no matter how good somebody can get, or even me personally, there's always a way to improve. But anything else you want to leave listeners with and maybe what's the best way to follow you? I know you have a LinkedIn profile, so I added your permission to the episode notes, if that's okay, but anything else you want to share?

Jeanette: 1:14:24

Yes, linkedin is the best way. I'll just take that one quickly, then you can always reach out. Linkedin is probably the best way. I would just say that I think we live in times that are very divisive. We focus a lot on what is different, what is dividing us, what is keeping us apart, rather than asking what is pulling us together, what makes us one, what makes us human.

Jeanette: 1:14:51

Solidarity is almost a word that is hard to use without feeling a little bit silly, but I think those things are, more than ever, important right now, with the times we're seeing. We have a lot of election going around the world. We will see a lot of changes and a lot of political instability. I think for us as people, really caring for each other and being kind and making sure that we try to look at what is bringing us together and offering opportunities to bring us together, I think will be more important this year than it ever has, and I think that anything that you can do as a person, if that's individually or for your team or in a bigger way in your community, I think that's really, if anything, that's what I hope that people will take the time to do this year.

Klara: 1:15:42

Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for your time, jeanette, and just being in touch and allowing me to check in with you. You've guided me on my career journey many times and always been there to provide your perspective, which I truly value and appreciate, and thank you again for the conversation.

Jeanette: 1:16:01

Thank you, Clara, and it is absolutely a privilege and joy to be around you and follow your journey as well. So thank you for having me I love it and for all of you. Keep on listening to Clara, I'm sure you will learn a lot more. Take care.

Klara: 1:16:42

Thank you.