Shaming and Judging

Shaming.  It’s Everywhere.  

Have you ever felt like someone was shaming you for your feeding choices? Or anything else?

Check out this episode about shaming, and some suggestions on how to deal with it.

If you are a new listener, we would love to hear from you.  Please consider leaving us a review on itunes or sending us an email with your suggestions and comments to badassbreastfeedingpodcast@gmail.com

WE HAVE TRANSCRIPTS!!  You can also add your email to our list and have episodes sent right to your inbox!

Things we talked about:

This might be a ranting episode [2:56]

Shame is all around us [4:09]

Barriers [7:49]

Nursing in public [11:13]

We apologize for our sour attitude about maternity leave [13:24]

It’s when they’re born we need the help [16:50]

Abby’s IG story [20:38]

Should the bullies win? [22:41]

Social media [25:41]

Changing your parenting experience [30:22]

Finding friends with kids the same age is like dating [32:44]

Knowledge is power [34:47]

Today’s Shout Out is to Melanated Midwives [19:34]

IG @melanatedmidwives or melanatedmidwives.org

*This Episode is sponsored by Fairhaven Health and Sheila Darling Coaching

Links to information we discussed or episodes you should check out!

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/cesarean-births-and-breastfeeding/

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/118-breastfeeding-myths-that-wont-die/

And this cool song~

http://foofighters.co/Shame​ 

Set up your consultation with Dianne

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/consultations/     

Check out Dianne’s blog here~

https://diannecassidyconsulting.com/milklytheblog/

Follow our Podcast~

• https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com

Here is how you can connect with Dianne and Abby~

• Abby Theuring  https://www.thebadassbreastfeeder.com
• Dianne Cassidy http://www.diannecassidyconsulting.com

Music we use~

Music: "Levels of Greatness" from "We Used to Paint Stars in the Sky (2012)" courtesy of Scott Holmes at freemusicarchive.org/music/Scott Holmes

Transcript

dianne (00:00):

Welcome to the badass breastfeeding podcast. I'm Dianne, your lactation consultant,

abby (00:25):

and I'm Abby, the badass breastfeeder. And today's episode is brought to you by Fair Haven health. If you leak breast milk, you can now stop losing it to your breast pad and instead collect it to add to your stash. And today's episode is also brought to you by Sheila Darling coaching. Sheila Darling is a social worker, certified hypnotherapist and mindfulness meditation teacher. And could be your start to a more peaceful Parenthood. We'll hear more from our sponsors later, um, but these sponsors make the podcast possible. So please head to badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com and check out our sponsor page, check there and see if you can give any of our sponsors your business while you're there, scroll down and enter your email address and get a episode sent straight to your inbox every Monday. And now Dianne has our review of the week.

dianne (01:11):

Yes, and this comes from our iTunes. So thank you so much for putting this on iTunes, because that really does help the podcast. And it comes from somebody with a lot of jumbled letters. I think I think they just put like the alphabet, which is totally fine. I don't care because we love you anyway. And it says my favorite podcast. I recommend this podcast to all of my mama friends, especially my expecting friends, being educated and myths about breastfeeding was so instrumental in my journey. The first time I fed my baby, after my C-section, the nurse told me, you will not be able to breastfeed. There's no way. Well I'm stubborn and love proving people wrong. So here we are seven months later and my baby is still exclusively breastfed. Her comment could have easily ruined my journey. And I'm sure this happens to so many moms out there. Your podcast is so helpful and informative. I listened to it religiously. Thank you both for being such amazing advocates.

abby (02:09):

Shout out to that nurse. Thanks for your help.

dianne (02:13):

And this is why like, this is why we're going to talk about shaming today because of this kind of bullshit. I can't stand it. And I feel like this is like a theme. You have a C-section and, you know, go back to the C-section episode. We did a couple weeks ago because you know, it is possible to breastfeed after a C-section don't let anybody tell you.

abby (02:32):

People breastfeed after a C-section all the time. What the hell is that even about?

dianne (02:37):

I don't know.

abby (02:39):

one does not equal the other. Why do we ask to just it's any, every single thing that you come across, it's like, well, you can't breastfeed. It's just, your pants are too tight. You can't breastfeed. I mean like, how are these things nothing's even connected?

dianne (02:56):

No, it's just ridiculous. I don't know if we should just get right into it or what I think we are thought this might be a ranting episode. I will just put that out there right now. This might possibly be ranting. Yeah.

abby (03:12):

we are here to validate all of your feelings. And then maybe we can share some of the things that we do. I can share some of the things that I've done, you know, in response to this.

dianne (03:20):

I mean the whole, and I, we decided to do a shaming episode. First of all, I don't want anybody to think that, you know, the way they choose to feed their baby is wrong or whatever. Like, however you choose to feed your baby is how you choose to feed the baby. And that is your choice. That is your choice to make. But if you choose to breastfeed and people tell you, you shouldn't be, or it's not enough, or they're destroying their baby or they're ruining something or they're ruining their body by breastfeeding any of these things, or they can't like it's nobody's business. Why you have to put your 2 cents in. I don't understand, but it's not your business. I mean, it's just, it's so frustrating to me.

abby (04:09):

Well, I think we live in a culture where shame is very shame is big here. We use shame to control people. You know, we just do it starting with little kids, you know, when they don't behave the way we want them to, or just like, literally like shame on you or, you know, don't do that. Or what were you thinking? Or, you know, you know, that's naughty. You know, all of these like shaming things. And we, this goes across the board for most of our experience. If you are anybody living here, I was going to say, well, I mean, we can say who it's worse for. I don't know. You know, it's probably the same for the worst for the people that everything is worse for. Um, but, um, even like white men, you know, shame on you for having feelings, shame on you for, you know, being vulnerable or is it, you know, there's just shame is, is a way that we control people and keep everybody in the line that we want them to be in. And, um, you know, you started to say this before, like, however you feed your baby, but let's face it, like shame exists across the board, right. Especially now, like with the, you know, the breastfeeding movement and all of that, you know, there's a lot of people who, you know, truly share their experiences, that when they were bottle feeding, they were shamed. You know, it's just like, it's, it's just a way that we behave towards people too. I mean, there's so many layers to it, you know, we're trying to control people, we're reacting to on our own feelings and insecurities and you know about our own choices. I think sometimes, um, I mean, I suppose we'll focus mostly on the breastfeeding chest feeding part here, because that's our podcast, but let's like, let's be real. We are aware that it happens all across the board.

dianne (05:59):

Oh, absolutely. And I was just, as you were saying that, I mean, and that's exactly what I meant when I said, you know, how you feed your baby is how you feed your baby. And I know that bottle-feeding shaming happens because we hear about it all the time. But because I'm in the breastfeeding chest feeding world, I don't see the bottle shaming. I see.

abby (06:20):

Well, and, and I, yeah, and I think that, that, that there is something to be said to that, that in general bottles are more normal. There are more normalized than like breastfeeding. You know, I think that within certain circles, you know, you're going to, you're definitely going to see people. I've seen people say like, Hey, you know, to, to people who are using formula, like, I can't believe you put that poison inside your baby. What's wrong. Sorry. But formula is the best choice for some people. That's just the bottom line. Argue with me, go ahead.

dianne (06:56):

No, you're right.

abby (06:58):

It's the best choice for some people. And that's none of your freaking business, right? And this all takes our eyes off of the fact that formula companies did all of this to us. The whole breast is best campaign that was invented by a formula company. That's marketing. Breast is best, But if you can't, you know, and then the whole mommy Wars thing that wasn't, that's all, that's all marketing from formula companies, creating all of this, like insane arguing in fighting and all this stuff that we do with each other that helps them sell their product. The breastfeeding Is just a bodily function. That's all it is. This is just a normal bodily function that some most people want to do. And we should be helping people do it. But we have these huge barriers of like these marketing from these trillion dollar companies.

dianne (07:49):

And the barriers really are just unbelievable. Like the ridiculous, the barriers, the barriers are things like insurance doesn't cover it. So I can't see a lactation specialist, you know, leave maternity leave. Things that should be available readily to families is not that miseducation that we are constantly talking about. You know, you're going to your, your pediatrician and your OB and you know, the nurses and for information, and this is what you're getting like our review of the week. Well, you can't breastfeed because you were, you had a C-section. I mean, that, that's the information you get from somebody who really believes that. I mean, she, obviously this nurse really believed that that was the case, right. And this is the information that we're putting out there into the universe. And like, you have these little voices like ours that are going, no, that's not true. That's not correct. But it, how far does that really get

abby (09:00):

How far does it get when you're inside of a huge hospital system that also is funded by formula. And that's just the protocol. That's just the big machine that we're inside of. And then you have somebody. Yeah. Somebody going like, well, no, you actually can breastfeed. Okay. Well, but that's not, it's not that simple to just be like, well, yes I can. Cause I did the same thing when I was in the hospital with Jack, I was like, I don't want that formula. I just want to breastfeed. And they pushed back. They're like, well, no, you can't. You have to, your baby's hungry . What am I supposed to do?

dianne (09:33):

Yeah. People are terrified that, that they're doing something wrong. And you know, and I've had people think that they can't, that formula has to be somewhere in the mix. Even if breastfeeding is fine, there's no problem. It's going well, I have had people say to me, so at what point do I introduce formula? You never have to, if you don't want to

abby (09:56):

The normal. Yeah. It's so normalized that we just figure that it's part of it. Same with pumps. People are like, Oh, you're, you know, it's like a, it's like a baby shower gift a pump. You don't, you don't need this. Unless you're going to go to work or, or be away from your baby. You don't need a pump. But like, this is what capitalism does. Right? Yeah. I don't think that we understand. I don't think we truly, truly understand how powerful capitalism is on our lives. We, this marketing of these products has made us believe that these are needed things in order for us to be successful. Even though they've only been invented in like the past 100 years, how did we get here? How have we survived?

dianne (10:39):

It gets just gets more and more every year. I mean, the pump industry is growing by leaps and bounds. And you know, everybody is all about pumping, which if you need to, okay, and you need to, you need, you need to, you need to, uh, which is fine. And we're glad that we have those things. And I think when, when families start to pump, they realize how miserable that really is. I think when you're pregnant, it sounds like a great idea. And then when you have your baby .

abby (11:13):

it's just a normal thing that you're going to do. You're like, this is what people do. Yeah. Great. And then you get into it, all of it. And it's like, what? It's not what I thought it was going to be. And people are like, well, just put it in a box, just put it in a bottle. Yes. And that goes along with the breastfeeding in public too, where there's so much shame around this, you know, just put it in a bottle. Why do you need to do that here? Just stay home, just cover up just whatever. And that's a whole other thing that stops people from being able to, you know, to feel like they can breast or chest feed is just all of this. And probably along with the, mostly with the nursing and public comes with the, how highly our bodies are. Oh my God. Put that boob away. How dare you. That's for sex. That's not for feeding babies.

dianne (12:03):

Somebody said that to me recently. She said that God, maybe it was a email or something that I received from a listener. And she said that like, everybody that she knew was not supportive of her breastfeeding relationship. And even her grandmother said, that's not what those are for. Her grandmother. That's not what those are for.

abby (12:25):

Yes. And again, this is how we keep people, how we control people, controlling people in our society means making money. And we control people, you know, by, you know, shaming them about their bodies. And then they don't even know what they're for. And then people can't be successful this way. And then all these companies make more money. It really does come down to that. It's all capitalism.

dianne (12:48):

Well, it's all. Yeah. I mean, that's why you can't get lactation services covered right. By insurance because it's, it's a money-making thing.

abby (12:55):

Well, right. And like we see, how far do we have to fight for maternity leave? No one plans on giving us more maternity leave. That's not an, that is no one's ultimate plan that would bring down drastically. Um, the use of formula and, and huge pharmaceutical corporations that, that, that are upholding this capitalist system and pumps and pumps and yet, right. And that would be, that would take a major hit. Well, that's not going to happen. Sorry to be so hopeless. But I mean, you know, it's not just like, it's not just these things are all interconnected. These are not individual issues. We think all maternity leave, we just need to like, you know, change, um, change policy. And i mean That is how, how you do it. But I mean, it's not going to be that easy because there are all these corporations that are not going to easily let that happen.

dianne (13:45):

Well, there's a lot of facets there that go along with it, the maternity leave process, but the support are, we could definitely do better in the support realm. I mean, there are other countries that send, you know, the midwives or health professionals to the homes automatically for months after babies are born to check in on the families and make sure everything's going okay and make sure the baby's gaining well. And that there's no questions about feeds. However, you decide to feed your baby. You still get that support. And that is a positive thing when you're trying to figure out how to manage life with a new baby.

abby (14:26):

Well, right. But here healthcare is privatized and you have to be able to afford to afford it in order to have it. And so we don't, we're not going to pay for that.

dianne (14:36):

No, no, absolutely not. So it's like, and I said this to somebody the other day, I had a conversation with somebody because I don't know if this happens to people. This probably does happen to you. If you go out in public, back in the day, when we used to associate with other humans on a regular basis, if somebody asks what you do and you say what you do, and for me, I say, I'm a lactation consultant and people will say, all right, I've come to the point where I just say, I help with moms and babies. That's what I say from now, because if I say I'm a lactation consultant I either get somebody telling me their story of what happened to them or telling me why they shouldn't breastfeed, why they couldn't breastfeed, or they just go, Oh, and never talked to me again. Like, it's usually one of those three things. So somebody recently kind of got into this, you know, talking to me about it and what happened with their journey. And then somebody else was like, I was sitting with a couple of people and then somebody else was like, I just couldn't do it. I knew it was the very best thing for my baby, but it just wasn't working. And I'm like, that kind of conversation actually makes me feel very uncomfortable because it's sad to me. You know, it really is. It's sad to me. And I always say, well, you really need the support. You really do. You really need the support. And in our society, they support you up until the minute you have that baby you're at doctor's appointments weekly when you are pregnant every week. Right? Every single week, you're at a doctor's appointment in the last trimester usually, or the last month, last month. And then you have your baby and they say, we'll see you in six weeks, unless there's a problem. Yeah. And then that's it. You have a new human being that you've been tasked with keeping alive. And they're like, good luck.

abby (16:36):

Right. And they're inside. They're not going anywhere. Especially the last trimester. Like what, right. What are you looking for there? They're just in there, they're cooked, just waiting for the door to open. Like, what is the, what do we need to look at every two seconds?

dianne (16:50):

I know it's when they're born that we need the help. That's when we need the help. And that's when we're shut off and turned away. But we can talk more about that after our sponsors

abby (17:04):

Sounds good. We'll be right back. Today's episode is sponsored by Sheila Darling coaching. A new baby can add intense amounts of anxiety and depression, no sleep, feeling overwhelmed, looking at your sweet baby and wondering how this tiny human can cause so much chaos. The transition to Parenthood is an entire identity shift. You weren't prepared for. If one more person tells you that this time goes by so quickly, you might just punch them in the face. Transitioning to a new family member takes patience self-compassion and support. Sheila Darlene coaching can be that professional support person that Dianne and I are always saying, there is no shame in getting Sheila Darling is a social worker, certified hypnotherapist and mindfulness meditation teacher. And could be your start to a more peaceful life. Head to Sheiladarling.com to schedule your consultationToday. Mention the badass breastfeeding podcast and you'll receive 10% off a coaching package. Today's episode is also brought to you by FairHaven Health. Do you leak breast milk? Have you ever thought about how much breast milk you are soaking up into your breast pads and throwing away? What if you could catch that milk and add it to your stash? Instead, the milkies milk saver allows you to do just that slide, the milk saver into your bra or tank top on the non-nursing side to catch the let down while you breastfeed. People are adding ounces upon ounces to their stash on a daily basis. Thousands and thousands of breastfeeders have discovered this product. It holds two ounces of milk it's comfortable to wear and reusable. You might be thinking that you don't leak very much. That is what most people say before they actually use the milk saver. You will be shocked at how much milk you collected, how much liquid gold you were throwing into the garbage. This milk can be used to beef up your stash to make breast milk keepsakes for baths, for breast milk, popsicles lotions, soaps, you name it. Breast milk is worth saving. Check out the Milkies milk saver at FairHaven health that's F a I R H a V E N. health.com and use code badass for 15% off of your purchase. Uh, these sponsors and their promo codes can be found in our show notes. Under this episode on badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com our show notes will also include further information about things we talk about in the episode and at badasssbreastfeedingpodcast.com. You will also find our breastfeeding resources, all of our other episodes and information about scheduling your very own one-on-one online lactation consultation with Dianne. And this week's shout out, goes to Melanated Midwives. A very simply more black indigenous people of color midwives are needed. Melanated midwives provides financial support through three, $5,000 scholarships annually to student midwives that identify as black indigenous or a person of color. You can head to melanated midwives on Instagram or melanated midwives.org. And back to shaming, back to shaming. I have a story.

dianne (20:09):

Perfect.

abby (20:09):

I was, um, I posted something on Instagram recently. I can't remember what it was. Oh. Something about how, like, so the, you know, all the shaming that goes into all of this, it gets even worse as they get older, right. As your kid gets older as like toddler, small children who are breastfeeding, extended breastfeeding. Absolutely. And, um, this, I posted something about like, you know, they're never too old to, to, to nurse, whatever.

dianne (20:37):

I saw that post. Yeah.

abby (20:38):

Well, somebody was like, well, I know a nine year old who's still nursing. And so maybe there is too old. And so I said, why, why, why is that? Why is this these two people, this parent and this child who've decided that nursing is still works for them. Why is that any of our business? And so this person said, well, this, you know, this he's getting teased at school and bullied, and he doesn't even want to go on sleepovers because of it. Um, and I'm, I'm, I'm using a sarcastic voice and we weren't arguing, but we were just, I was, you know, this is the reasoning was that they were being bullied. Um, they don't want to go on sleepovers and that, um, you know, that they were suffering socially and emotionally. Um, so my question is, why, why do we need to, so it's, then now it's the responsibility of this parent to interrupt this situation between these, with her and her child, because jerk offs are bullying him at school. Like which one is the problem here? Right? The nine-year-old nursing, which is very unusual. You don't hear about it very much. So that's why we're deciding that it's bad and not the bullies that needs, you know, need to get their heads checked by their parents or teachers or whatever.

dianne (22:13):

I also kind of feel like the mother's being blamed here. Like she's forcing a child. And I know we talked about this in the past. Like, you can't force anyone to breastfeed.

abby (22:27):

Oh, I, the, my favorite quote by somebody I want them on my page was like, if they're still latching, they're not too old. Like latching equals not too old, like they're still latching. Then they're still still appropriate for them to do

dianne (22:41):

For them to say, well, this child is being teased. I feel like, well, so the mother should stop right now. Well, obviously she's, this is a joint relationship here. Right. And you're right. Why should we say, Oh, okay. So the bullies win the bullies win,

abby (23:00):

Not okay. These people, it's not okay to treat people like this just because somebody is doing something different than you. How about we normalize other people doing different things than we do?

dianne (23:08):

That's a great idea

abby (23:09):

and shutting the hell up about it? Yeah. I mean, it's very unusual for a nine-year-old to still be nursing. I mean, Jack was six and a half. You hear, you know, that you hear this, the saying of like kids naturally wean between two and a half and seven, but like not, you know, if kids naturally wean a little bit earlier than that, then it's going to be also logical that there will be some kids who wean a little bit later. Right. And it comes out to that, that, that this parent is just nursing him to sleep at night, which is totally normal. That's what happens when the older kids are still nursing. It's generally just to sleep at night. That's always the very last session to go. Right, right. That to sleep at night. Um, and if this is working for them, then I don't understand why anybody is talking about it. And, and, and he doesn't want to go on sleepovers since when is that a measure of anything?

dianne (24:03):

Be like, okay,

abby (24:04):

Doesn't nurse anymore. He's nine. You won't catch him sleeping over at anybody else's house. It's like, this is my house. I'm not comfortable sleeping at your house. Why is that a thing? its so Culturally normal it's so like, then we just think that that's like a developmental milestone or something.

dianne (24:23):

So let's take away, let's take away the comfort and the security that this child has. Right. Because I'm sorry if I, if somebody is bullying me, the one thing that I want to do is go to the person that makes me feel most secure. Yeah. It makes me feel the best. So let's take that away on top of it. Yeah.

abby (24:45):

It's so frustrating though, that, that we, can't just, it's so frustrating that this simple, simple bodily function has become so taboo that like, just any part of it is controversial. Like what's like really a controversy.

dianne (25:05):

Yeah. It's just, it's nobody's business. That's the thing they kill it. It's just, it's, it's nobody's business. Nobody should have a say in how you do, you feed your child, it's your decision to make, and whether you do it in public, or you do it somewhere else regarding how you, what that choice is, you should not be questioned for it. You just shouldn't be, I mean, the social media, like that can be a really difficult thing because a lot of families will look to social media for, especially during the pandemic for some kind of connection and, you know, advice and just being able to connect with other mothers and other parents. And then you have people saying things like, Oh, you're not breastfeeding anymore. Oh, you're still breastfeeding. I mean, it's nobody's business.

New Speaker (26:08):

Yeah. That's how the badass breastfeeder started is when I was Jack was like, I don't know, eight months or something. He, um, I was at a park nursing him in a park. I didn't know anything, you know, that was it. I didn't know anybody who had a baby. I didn't know anything about like social things on social media. I wasn't, you know, I, I joined this, I was on Facebook and I joined this like Facebook mom group, but it was very general. And, um, I always, like, it was kind of fun being in there because there were other parents and whatever, going through the same thing I was going through. And, um, I was in the park and it was like really oddly warm day. And like, I don't know, February or March or something. And I saw, I said to my friend, I was like, take a picture of us. And so she took a picture and I posted it in this group and I broke the internet. I have broken the internet a lot, which is super fun. Um, I, it wasn't fun that time. Cause I was like, what is happening? I didn't know any of this, you know? And it was just this huge explosion that we still see happening today of one side was like, that's awesome. You know? Yay. And the other side was like, that's disgusting. That's gross. How come you don't have a cover on, you know, why are you putting that in here? Why would we want to see that? I was like, wow. Oh my God, I'm going to start a Facebook page. And I'm going to just fill everybody's newsfeeds with breastfeeding pictures. And that's how it started. But it's like, it's, it's, It's so weird because I feel like also there's this whole, you and I didn't grow up with social media. And there's a whole generation of parents now who did, and uh, parents and people that are having babies now that they don't remember the beginning of social, they've always had it. Right. You know? And, and, and this type of thing is so extreme. But like, in my experience, I think because you have, because I remember life without it, I don't believe. And I also also just, you know, if you just put your phone down for a little while and go outside and interact and walk around people, aren't saying this to our faces, as much as they do on social media, you know, you know what I mean? Like, of course it happens. People are shamed for breastfeeding in public and all these comments happened to us in person, but they don't happen at the intensity as it can happen on social media. Don't say anything that you would not say that to my face. If, you know, if we were, if you were sitting next to me, you wouldn't have said that. Right. And, um, I, yeah, I feel like social media ads is such a, it's a, you know, it's, it really can affect your mental health.

dianne (28:56):

Absolutely. It absolutely can. And really make you think twice about what you're doing. Like this stranger that you may never come face to face with has just made you question everything you're doing

abby (29:11):

Right. Or feel ashamed about something that's just normal. Like again, a normal, I like to call breastfeeding a normal bodily function because that's what it is. It's not this outrageous thing that somebody invented to freak everyone out. Like this Is just as like, it's your body. It's as normal as you, like, you know, having the baby inside your belly and it coming out in nursing, it's all connected. It's all just as normal. We're not like, Oh my God, you're pregnant in public. Go away. All I hear is pregnant, waddling people around everywhere. And we're just like, Oh right. A pregnant person. And it's so fun. And then it's like, then the baby comes out and it's like, Oh my God, everyone. It's just like open day for critics. It's unbelievable. And so what do we do? I mean, I don't want to leave people without any ideas on things like they can do. So I have an idea. One of the things that I think w w I, I I'll say the main thing, the thing that changed completely changed my parenting experience was finding other people that were nursing and especially nursing toddlers. As I got into that age, that changed everything. I felt, I felt more, I felt way more normal. I felt like I felt like it went easier too, because you're around them and you're seeing it happening. And you're like, okay, this is how it's supposed to go. You know, I remember seeing it is super important for it to, for success. Um, and so finding those people and you can find them online, find them on, um, you know, if you, social media is very helpful for that finding people, and you can find people in your area, but then meet up in person like, Hey, do you want to go to the park? Do you want to, like, you know, do you want to hang out and just like, hang out and nurse together, it sounds weird, but that's what we did. We just got together. And we would just nurse in the park

dianne (31:09):

Being surrounded by people that are like-minded is hugely powerful. It really is. And it really makes you feel way more confident, especially if it's something that you're not feeling that confident about, which is parenting overall, I think is something that we don't feel that confident about. Yeah. But you're always going to want to be surrounded in your parenting journey by people that are like-minded, you know, even like my kids are older and I still will go to my friends that have kids the same age as my kids, and talk to them about what's happening or talk to them about an issue I'm having, or ask a question about something just to see how they, how did they deal with it? Yeah. You know, and I don't, I know I'm not going to be shamed for, you know, my child is not taking as many classes as theirs, or if my child doesn't have a job or whatever, you know, like it's not, I'm not worried about being shamed when I go to people that I'm connected to.

abby (32:13):

Right. Um, yeah. I was going to say too that, um, what was I going to say? Oh yeah. So in the beginning, like I remember feeling this way in the beginning when you're like, I feel like, I don't know. I feel like now I kind of have friends that our kids are the same age and we're kind of like steady, but like in the beginning, when you're out, you're searching like for friends with like a three month old or a six week old or whatever, it's like just being on the dating market again. Oh my God. Like, you know, you're like trying to reach out, Hey, do you will, do you want to get together for coffee? Do you want to like, want to hang out? And it's totally that, all of that over again. And, um, I went through like, you know, I had a lot of dates with People that didn't work out. Um, I had somebody once make like a racist comment and I was like, Oh, what just happened? And like, I came home crying. I was like, I'm never going to find any friends. Oh my God. Yeah. So, yeah. And then, you know, you just gotta keep, you know, keep looking, you know, until you find that till you find the right one or group, you know? Um, but I feel like that's the biggest thing. And, you know, I think also you gotta people, we have to start putting social media into perspective. Um, and, and, you know, the stuff that goes in with all the, you know, the family critics and the, and the, and the, you know, the misinformed medical system. I mean, I think just like knowing, knowing that they have the, a lot of wrong information, knowing that your family just, you know, that it's not a cultural norm. Um, and so people around you are going to have the wrong information or strong, strange opinions about it. Um, at least knowing that it's not you, it's them, you know,

dianne (34:13):

Just thinking of that too, about the education piece. And I know that we talk a lot here about myths and things like that, and we kind of joke about it and laugh like, Oh my gosh, this myth. And, you know, but knowing what the truth is, and knowing, you know, the research behind it and the education behind it can really, You know, help you When you're facing that when you're facing those people that want to shame and doubt you and all of that stuff to have that information will make you feel so much more confident, too.

abby (34:46):

Absolutely.

dianne (34:47):

knowledge is power. Right. I think I learned that on an ABC special. Knowledge is power

abby (34:55):

PBS or something,

dianne (34:57):

Something like that, but it's true. It's true. The more, you know, the better off you you can be and you can help educate others to spread the spread the news. Thanks for listening. Thank you.