Big Boobs, Small Boobs, Flat Nipples, Inverted Nipples

Big Breasts.  Small Breasts

Flat Nipples. Inverted Nipples

Does any of this really matter??

You want to listen to this episode to get all the info. The real info.

If you are a new listener, we would love to hear from you.  Please consider leaving us a review on itunes or sending us an email with your suggestions and comments to badassbreastfeedingpodcast@gmail.com

WE HAVE TRANSCRIPTS!!  You can also add your email to our list and have episodes sent right to your inbox!

Things we talked about:

Do bigger breasts mean more milk? [3:25]

Feeding positions for large breasts [8:49]

The Boob Sling [13:11]

Sagging breasts [15:19]

The C- hold  [19:47]

Nipples [21:51]

Inverted nipples [25:53]

Nipple shields [27:39]

All  bodies look different [33:15]

Today’s Shout Out is to Black Birth Workers Rock [18:42]

Blackbirthworkersrock.com

*This Episode is sponsored by Original Sprout and Sheila Darling Coaching

Links to information we discussed or episodes you should check out!

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/bra-fitting-101-with-rumina-nursingwear/

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/breastfeeding-intervention-tools/

Information about reverse pressure softening

https://kellymom.com/bf/concerns/mother/rev_pressure_soft_cotterman/

Set up your consultation with Dianne

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/consultations/     

Check out Dianne’s blog here~

https://diannecassidyconsulting.com/milklytheblog/

Follow our Podcast~

• https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com

Here is how you can connect with Dianne and Abby~

• Abby Theuring  https://www.thebadassbreastfeeder.com
• Dianne Cassidy http://www.diannecassidyconsulting.com

Music we use~

Music: "Levels of Greatness" from "We Used to Paint Stars in the Sky (2012)" courtesy of Scott Holmes at freemusicarchive.org/music/Scott Holmes

Transcript

dianne (00:21):
[inaudible] Hi, welcome to the badass breastfeeding podcast. It's Dianne your lactation consultant,
abby (00:26):
And this is Abby. The badass breastfeeder. And today's episode is brought to you by Sheila Darling
coaching. Sheila Darling is a social worker, certified hypnotherapist and mindfulness meditation teacher,
and could be your start to a more peaceful life. And today's episode is also brought to you by original
sprout. Original sprout carries, safe, effective, and pediatrician, tested shampoos, conditioners, styling,
and body care products produced and packaged in the United States. Uh, and you will hear more about
these sponsors later, uh, but they make this podcast possible. So please head to
badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com and check out our sponsor page. If you need anything, see if you can
give them any of your business while you're there, scroll down and absolutely enter your email address.
And we'll send these episodes right to your inbox on Monday, so you don't have to go searching for it.
Um, and now Dianne has our review of the week.
dianne (01:19):
Our review of the week comes off of iTunes. So thank you so much for putting this on iTunes for us. It's
from Taylor Garnermaker. I want to make sure that I got that right, because she put her name in there. A
lot of people don't do that. So thank you so much for telling us who you are. My new favorite podcasts. I
wish I had heard this before I even gave birth and more so as I struggled the first few months,
breastfeeding my daughter, such empowering information, as well as informative conversations about
the stuff that truly matters. Thank you so much. I'm glad you found us. I'm glad you thought it was
helpful. Thank you for the review. And you can send us reviews, either, put them on iTunes. You can put
them in email form and send them to us at badassbreastfeedingpodcast@gmail.com. And we are going
to today talk about some stuff that truly matters for real, for real. It all matters. Yeah. All the stuff we
talk about,
abby (02:17):
We never talked about something that doesn't matter.
dianne (02:18):
That's very true.
abby (02:19):
because I'll just stay in bed.
dianne (02:23):
Yes. We always matter. So we are going to talk about though, like boobs, shape, size, nipple, shape,
abby (02:32):
Yes boobs and Nipples, come in, all kinds of shapes and sizes. And you know, it's really amazing. The
amount of different shapes and sizes and things that are going on with that body part, you know, it's
incredible
dianne (02:48):

Until I started working in this field, I thought everybody had boobs that looked like mine. Yeah. Like I
really did. I didn't know that there were so many differences or that anything really mattered, you
know? Like what, like I just didn't think that it really mattered, like what your boob size was as far as like
breastfeeding and all of that stuff. Even when I got pregnant, I was like, I never thought that it would
matter. So where does this idea come from? That it matters. You know, that your breast size is going to
impact your breastfeeding or that your nipple is going to impact your breastfeeding. I never would have
considered that at all.
abby (03:25):
No, I know when it comes in with all of that other confusing information, cause it's, you know, we think
it kind of makes logical sense that like, well, if you have big boobs, then you have more milk than if you
have small boobs. Right? I mean like a big water balloon is going to have more water in it than a small
water balloon, but turns out it's actually not even, that's not even true at all. Oh, it has nothing to even
have absolutely nothing to do with the amount of milk that your body is making the size of your breasts.
You know, it doesn't affect milk supply even a little bit. Not at all. It's not related at all. It turns out the
size doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.
dianne (04:10):
It really does not matter at all. The only thing that matters. I think with, if we're going to say any of it
matters is that sometimes it's hard to position a baby when you're bigger breasted or you feel like
you're going to suffocate your baby when you're bigger breasted. Like I said, I see that all the time, the
moms are like, Oh my God, my baby, my breast is bigger than my baby's head. I'm going to suffocate
them. But you won't
abby (04:32):
And it's can be more difficult and we can talk about, you know, different things you can do if you have
larger breasts, you know, as far as positioning goes and trying to deal with that, because that's the thing
that is a thing that's really sometimes really difficult for people. They have to figure that out.
dianne (04:46):
Yeah, absolutely. But one of the other things too, that comes up and I know this is how I felt because
when I had my kids, when I had my first son, I was like, really like, kind of, I guess I was skinny. I dunno,
you look back and you don't ever think yourself as skinny, but, um, I was a distance runner and stuff like
that. And in the service, and I know I was, I was way smaller than I am right now. Like my breast size was
way smaller than it is right now. And then my milk came in and I was like, Oh my God, I look obscene
because I was not prepared for my breast size to get as big as it was when I was that small. So I was like,
Oh my, what am I supposed to do with this? Like I was like, I can't leave the house. I look obscene. This is
insane.
abby (05:33):
Yeah. I know. It's weird to have that body part or any part of your body just changed so drastically. Right.
Speaker 2 (05:39):
And then women that already have big breasts are like, I'm not going to get bigger. Am I? And it's like,
yeah, you will. Yeah.

abby (05:44):
There's that scene in that movie? What's that movie called? Um, Oh God. Um, John Travolta is the like
guy and Kirstie Alley has a baby Look, who's talking Baby talks. Yeah. Baby's voice. I can't even
remember this movie is so old.
dianne (06:02):
It sounds like Bruce Willis or something.
abby (06:04):
and Kirsty Allie's pregnant. And at the beginning and her boobs have gotten really big. So she's like
standing in the mirror and she's trying to be like all sultry, you know? And she's like, Ooh, look it, look.
And then she's just like, Oh, I hate this.
dianne (06:18):
It really is like, and some people love it, but I was just like, Oh my God,
abby (06:24):
No, it's just too weird to have any innate thing changed. So drastically so rapidly. It's just like, Whoa,
what's happening here. Yeah.
dianne (06:31):
Uh, I mean, and I've had moms be like, I went from, you know, this size to a triple G like stuff I never
even knew existed. I didn't know. There was such a thing as a triple G. Yeah.
abby (06:41):
And that's what, and that becomes an issue actually, when you're trying to find a nursing bra. Yeah. You
know, and it's like, well, what size am I even? And is it going to change and how you know, so it's really
hard to get a good size. Um, and you do want a good size cause you don't want to be constricted. Cause
then you don't want to be, you know, especially really early on like having things too tight. And they're
really key, you know, the milk is all constricted.
dianne (07:07):
Yup. And then you're going to change again. So nothing's going to change, don't put, you know, a whole
lot of money. We have an episode, I'll link it in the show notes about, um, sizing with Rumina. Oh yeah.
So I will, yeah. I'll link that in the show notes. Cause that was, that was a while back.
abby (07:23):
a really long time ago.
dianne (07:23):
Yeah. But that might be really helpful if anybody is looking to, you know, size because it is, it is really
hard. But when you go to try to breastfeed this baby and you have bigger breasts, it's like, how do I, I
can't even see where the nipple is, you know? Or I can't, I'm having a hard time positioning and the
baby, what do I do with this?

abby (07:41):
Right. Or the nipple is so huge. And it's like, well, they told me I should put most of the Ariel on the
baby's mouth, except my areola is the size, like a tea saucer. Yeah. And so how's that even possible, you
know? And then you have to kind of realize that that's not going to happen.
dianne (07:55):
Right. And that is one positional thing. Like when people say to me, I'm trying to get more of the areola
in the baby's mouth and it's like, but everybody has a different size areola.
abby (08:06):
Like how do we know? Right.
dianne (08:07):
So you can't really go by that as your guideline. Don't go by that as your guideline. If the latch is
comfortable, go by that as your guideline, not by how much areola you can stuff in your baby's mouth,
because
abby (08:20):
Yeah. If your areola is the size of a tea saucer, then it's not, that's not going to happen. And that's not
useful either. That's never, it's never going to happen. Your baby can't fit all that in their mouth.
dianne (08:28):
No, not at all. They don't need to. Go by What's comfortable for you. As far as what it feels like
breastfeeding, a lot of breastfeeding is by feel. So you want to know that you're like feeling comfortable
with the latch and feeling comfortable with where you're sitting and where, what you're doing and how
you're, you know, how you're positioning your breast. Yeah.
abby (08:49):
Since we're going on and on about large breasts. Yeah. Maybe we could talk about, you know, some of
the positions, because one of the things that people are really, you know, we see breastfeeding as like
people we, you, you normally see is like holding the baby in the cradle hold, which is really difficult.
That's a really difficult position for somebody who has really, really large breasts. Yes. And so you can try
things like some things that people say are, are more, um, useful to them are like the cross cradle, you
know, where you're kind of like the baby is just like across your right under your breasts or the football
hold. Yes. People swear by this football hold. I could never figure that out, But it doesn't Matter. It's not,
it's not about me.
dianne (09:36):
It was never, My go-to either.
abby (09:39):
So that's Where your baby is like on your breast. And then they're kind of to your side on the same side
of the, of your body, that, that they're that of the breast that they're attached to,
dianne (09:49):

They're like right up against your rib cage. Right? Yeah. And that can be really helpful with bigger breasts
because then you can really get a better idea. You can see the baby a little bit better and kind of see
what's going on. Um, one of the things that is really important, and this is all like kind of newborn baby
stuff, because as your baby gets bigger. It's going to be a lot easier. Right. But when you have a newborn
things like the cradle hold, like you were saying, it's just like way too hard. Even just for any newborn,
because it's just your baby So floppy, but you really need to have a good support pillow or something.
That's very going to really support you well so that you can feel comfortable with positioning your baby.
If you're trying to like, hold your breast and trying to hold the baby and trying to manipulate your body
in a specific way. Like that can be really uncomfortable after a while. So we want you to have something
that's going to be really, really stable and where you can like lay your baby on it and manipulate how
you're holding your breasts because you're always no matter what your breast size is. I always tell the
mother is like, you still have to hold the breast. Even if your breast is small because your baby can't
support the weight. I mean, that's just too much weight for your baby.
abby (11:03):
Another thing that's always good to master is no matter your breast size either is laying down. Yes.
Because laying down sideline position is just awesome in all kinds of ways, because you're laying down. I
swear to that love to lead. I know. And all of these things are so hard to pick to picture. And this is where
Google can come in really handy. We will give you permission sometimes to use Google, but not always,
but in this position, if you Google like breastfeeding positions or large breasted breastfeeding positions
that people who have large breasts have, you know, been able to say that works for them, then you get
up, you can see it, you know, which is harder for us to explain in a podcast, but when you can actually
see it, and then you can try these things, you know, some, some, some of them will work and some of
them will feel really weird to you. And then you can just mess around with the different positions until
you find a comfortable one. And then just like, go nuts. Just like, do that, do that one. And that's, you
know, like you said, it's not going to last forever because eventually your baby gets more head control
and more control over everything and they're bigger and they're easier to deal with.
dianne (12:12):
Right. And I have moms that will ask me all the time, well, how am I supposed to breastfeed in public
with a pillow? And you know, this is what we're talking about now with the, all the support and trying
new things and trying different positions and getting comfortable. This is all newborn baby stuff. The
first few weeks, when we want you to be home breastfeeding, your baby, like that is your job in the
beginning is just kind of like hanging out with your baby, getting used to everything, figuring it all out.
And it doesn't necessarily come naturally. Like breastfeeding is the most unnatural, natural thing you'll
do.
abby (12:53):
Yeah, totally. And some people, some people think it's really helpful to like roll a towel up under their
breasts and like, kind of bring it up because if it's sag and way down, they're just like, Oh, I can't, like you
said, he can't see. And it's kind of hard to deal with. So you can roll a towel up under there. I've even
heard of people like tying a scarf around their neck and like under their breast and creating like a boob
sling. Yeah.
dianne (13:16):
Yeah.

abby (13:17):
I mean, I kind Of just want to do that anyway. It seems like really comfortable. And I, you know, I have,
you know, some people have, I have a friend who, um, was super large breasted all through like, like as
soon as she hit puberty and she has had just chronic back problems, like really bad back back problems.
And she would go to the doctor, my back my back and they're just like, yeah, well, it's not, you know, I
guess you want to, I wish I had known about the boobs sling and I could've just like put her in some
boob slings. And she actually ended up recently. She's had, she has two kids and she's having another
one in like next month. Um, but like a couple of years ago she got a breasts. She got breast reduction
surgery. This is so like off topic, nothing to do with anything. I just want to tell the end of the story is
that she got breast reduction surgery and her back problems are completely gone. That's amazing. Yeah.
So anyway, um, do you have anything more about large breasts?
dianne (14:13):
Just that I want moms to not feel uncomfortable breastfeeding with this, you know, with, with having
larger breasts
abby (14:23):
You're so not alone. And like, honestly, if you feel more comfortable, like if you are in public and you feel
more comfortable with a cover, like cover, right, it's fine. It's always okay to cover. I feel like we've
gotten to this point in like this breastfeeding movement where it's just like, you know, I will be
uncovered and free the nipple and, you know, let the, my titties hang out and that's awesome. Like, I
want that to go on. But the thing is, if you're not comfortable with that, that's totally fine. You are
allowed to cover. And it's, you know, if that makes you more comfortable than like, we highly encourage
that.
dianne (14:59):
Yeah. Whatever works for you, but you're not going to suffocate your baby. No, you will not suffocate
your baby and you will make enough milk. I mean, it will, the breast size is fine, but it's totally okay. And
you will get a little bit bigger and then you're going to get, hopefully, well, I shouldn't say you're going to
go back to your regular size cause not everybody does, but you know, and breastfeeding does not make
your breasts sag. That's another thing that, that comes up quite a bit. It's actually pregnancy that does
that. It's not breastfeeding so and genetics. So don't worry if you're getting bigger and you're worried
about, Oh my God, my breasts going to sag, is this going to happen? Is that going to happen now? It's
okay. No, no worries.
abby (15:41):
Yeah. I mean, this is what they're for. So this is what they're for. They're actually supposed to sag a little
bit after, you know, after you have the kids, that's just how it is. Um, what about the deal with like, well,
so like large areas, super large areolas or really large nipples that are like so big that the baby can't fit
them in the mouth.
dianne (15:59):
So yeah. Should we get into nipples after we hear from our sponsors?
abby (16:04):

Oh my God. Really? Okay. Time is going by so fast.
dianne (16:09):
We have so much to talk about.
New Speaker (16:11):
Okay. Yes, we will be right back. Okay. Today's episode is brought to you by original sprout original
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for 25% off of your purchase. And today's episode is also sponsored by Sheila Darling coaching. The
transition to Parenthood can be intense feelings of anxiety and depression are actually quite common.
Your feelings should not be ignored. You deserve space where you can process this transition and all of
the emotional and psychological changes that come with it. You may hear people telling you to just
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schedule your consultation today and mention this podcast and get 10% off of a coaching package. Um,
all of our sponsors and their promo codes can be found in our show notes. Under this episode on
badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com our show notes will also include further information about things we
talk about in this episode and at badassbreastfeeding podcast.com. You'll also find our breastfeeding
resources, all of our other episodes and information about scheduling your very own one-on-one online
lactation consultation with Dianne. And our shout out of the week goes to black birth workers rock. Uh,
this is an Instagram account and you can also, uh, find the, um, there, um, Oh, more information at, um,
black birth workers, rock.com. You will find a black birth workers, rock directory. If you are looking for,
um, a black birth worker and follow the account, it's got lovely, um, you know, birthing and fertility and
lactation and, you know, paternal health, um, information. So again, information or Instagram, black
birth workers rock on, on Instagram, and you can follow them. And that's all, I've got awesome. So
before we go on to nipple stuff, should we talk about small boobs? Yeah, because I'll also, again, again
with the large boobs before we move on, like the C hold and sandwiching of breast a little bit, if that's
going to help you get like the nipple into your baby's mouth, it's really big. You can use the C hold, which
is just kind of, you know, you put, take your hand and making the shape of a C around it, compressing a
little where it turns into kind of how you would push down on a sandwich before you take a bite out of
it.
dianne (20:09):
Yeah, just a little bit further back. Like not right at the nipple, but further back, like in the breast tissue
and don't hold it too hard because I've had some others that actually like, cause bruising on their breast
tissue because they're holding so tight. Yeah.

abby (20:23):
Yeah. You don't need to do that. You need to just compress for a second, let your baby get their mouth
around it. And then you can just let go. Just support. You can also massage your breasts. I mean like
large breasts with like a lot of tissue massage can help. Um, and then small boobs. So for small boobs, I
don't know. Do you see a lot of issues with this?
dianne (20:44):
Not really, Really small, really like people really are worried that they're not going to make enough milk
when they have small breasts. And you will like some of the people that I've seen that have crazy
oversupply come with small breasts, it has nothing to do with the size of your breast at all.
abby (21:04):
But the same thing applies. Like if you, if you want to kind of help your baby, if you want to, if you need
to, you know, depending on how small they are, you know, if you need to kind of protrude your nipple
out a little bit to help the baby get a latch, you can do the, C hold again. Or the V hold.
dianne (21:21):
I like the C a little bit better. Well, yeah, I think it's less awkward
abby (21:27):
Accomplishes the same thing. So you're just trying to push out a little bit to give your baby a little bit of
assistance, which, you know, they can all use in the beginning, despite whatever breast size you have
sometimes going to say that help, they just need help getting on latched on and that these are all things
that you can do to help them latch. So nipples,
dianne (21:47):
Nipples, uh, the nipple.
abby (21:51):
So there's all kinds of things that go on with this, right? There's like partially protruding, nipples, uni,
lateral flat nipples and inverted nipples and dimples. And it's crazy. It's amazing. How many different
things go on with nipples? I didn't know.
dianne (22:07):
I know. I didn't know either. And people think that if their nipples aren't perfectly perfect, like, I don't
even know, like where do we see nipples other than porn? I don't know. But,
abby (22:21):
Well, I mean, Oh, well I guess those are always like kind of your typical, what you think a nipple would
look.
dianne (22:28):
Right? Right. But sometimes like if you see those ads for like the swimsuit issues and stuff like that, you
can like, see the nipples protruding, you know, like

abby (22:39):
It's like in like Showgirls where they were putting ice on their nipples and like making them stick out
through their tops.
dianne (22:46):
Give me a break. This is not the real world. You know? Like it's just not, you're good with the movie
references today.
abby (22:58):
I do. Yes. Just pop call to reference. That's my thing.
dianne (23:03):
But nipples, I think are more of a stressor for breastfeeders than breast size even. Yeah. Because
everybody worries about like, what if my nipples too big? What if my nipple is too small? What if my
nipples flat? And one of the things that happens that I see happening is that sometimes the
breastfeeding mother doesn't even consider it until somebody says to them, usually in the hospital. Oh,
you have big nipples. Oh, you have flat nipples. Oh, your nipples are really small. Oh. And then the
mother calls me. They're like, well, they said I had small nipples. Is that why the baby's not
breastfeeding? Well they said I had flat nipples. They said I had this. No, they just don't know how to
help you. So they're going to blame your breast, nipple size. Like that's what they're doing. Right. I have
not. I mean, first of all, the flat nipple thing, I don't meet too many mothers that truly have, and have
had flat nipples their entire life. A lot of nipples flatten out when your milk starts to come in because
your body is filled with fluid, from labor and delivery. So that breast tissue does get very swollen, which
will flatten out the nipple. That is not forever. It goes away. But the rest of it, like the small nipples,
inverted nipples, all that stuff, like babies can still latch. We, I mean, I remember a lactation consultant I
used to work with. She was amazing. And she was like, we don't call it breasts. It's not called nipple
feeding. It's called breastfeeding. They can still latch regardless of what the nipple looks like. And they
can,
abby (24:42):
I mean, they're not latching to the tip of it anyway. Right. You know, they're latching kind of around it,
direct latching to the, you know, the areola area. Right. So it really doesn't matter.
dianne (24:56):
I mean, the only time I ever see it really cause a problem. And again, if it ever causes a problem with
latch, it's usually just in the beginning because of the swollen breast tissue. That's really the bigger issue,
not the nipple, it's the swollen breast tissue, because of all the fluid that they pump into when you're in
labor. So that is usually the bigger issue. Or if you have a situation where you have a super little like
preemie baby and your nipple is a lot bigger, like in those kinds of situations. Yeah. You might have a
little bit of a harder time kind of getting things going, but it doesn't mean that your baby is not going to
breastfeed. And those are very specific situations. That is not everybody that is not every baby. And
every parent that is just a very specific like, okay, my baby was born several weeks early is very, very
small. And I happen to have over overly big nipples. I mean, you don't see that every day.
abby (25:51):

Yeah.
dianne (25:53):
Now the inverted nipple thing, I just had this happen very recently with somebody. And she contacted
me prior to having the baby when she was pregnant still because she was concerned that she had an
inverted nipple and wasn't going to be able to breastfeed if you have an inverted nipple or two inverted
nipples that does not mean you can't breastfeed. That is not a game changer. Babies can still latch and
breastfeed. And I did see this baby and mother after they had their baby and she was the baby breastfed
Great on an inverted Nipple. It can, it can happen. Don't let anybody tell you it can't.
abby (26:39):
Yeah. Are there times that it can't do you see baby struggling with this? I mean
dianne (26:44):
Sometimes, but again, it comes down to a lot of that swelling, the milk coming in and the fluid, because
then it just stretches that out a lot more. Sometimes what I will see or what I have seen. I won't say it
happens every time, but what I have seen some nipples sometimes when they're inverted will come out
when you breastfeed. Yeah. Yeah. So what I have seen happen in the past is like, the nipple will come
out. Mom will breastfeed, the nipple will come out and then it'll fold back in after she's done
breastfeeding. And it will feel very raw because it's still like, you know, wet from breastfeeding and it
just goes in it reverts back in and it kind of can feel raw and it's not healing well. So sometimes that can
cause a problem, but we just have to be more cautious with healing, but I don't ever really see it be a
huge issue. You can use a nipple shield. I see a lot of families do that.
abby (27:39):
I was going to ask about that. So yeah. So getting started, and then if you're going to do that though,
then we need some help getting off of it too. Right?
dianne (27:49):
Yeah. You should always be working with a lactation consultant just to be sure that
abby (27:53):
Especially if you start like an intervention like that. Yeah,
dianne (27:56):
Absolutely. And what can happen too is like, say, for example, maybe you're in the hospital and you
have an inverted nipple and they say, okay, lets give you a nipple shield because you have an inverted
nipple, but maybe that's not the reason why the baby wasn't breastfeeding. Well, you know what I
mean? Maybe it was a different reason. Maybe they're not sucking well or something, you know, like
I've seen that happen too, where everybody thought it was this, you know, this nipple issue, but it really
wasn't, it was something completely different. So if you do start with a nipple shield, that's not the end
of the world. And sometimes it will help you pull the nipple out as well as a baby is nursing. But we can
totally get off of that too, but definitely work with somebody you want to be working with a lactation
consultant to make sure you're on the right path.

abby (28:42):
What do you think about the, these there's these like things like you can pump for a couple minutes
beforehand to get your nipple to pop out, like, or like rolling, you know, kind of rolling the nipple in
between your finger, your thumb and your index finger a little to pop it out.
dianne (28:58):
Yep. You can do that. Um, I would recommend that before the pumping only because it just seems
easier. Right? Exactly. I mean, not that the pumping does it like you can, but who is that ahead of their
baby that they're like, okay, I know the baby's is gonna want to eat in five minutes. So let me just, you
know, it's really hard to feed on demand and be a few minutes ahead of your baby so that you can pump
first.
abby (29:22):
No, especially if you could just roll a little in between your fingers, if that, you know, and if that works
for you, then just do that. Absolutely. What do you think about, um, breast shells, these things? So a
breast shell, if you don't know, it's like a little thing that you can put on your nipple, like in between
feedings that creates like a little suction that pops the nipple out. Is that right? Am I explaining?
dianne (29:46):
Yeah, you're explaining it right. There's no evidence to really show that they help because sometimes
they'll say wear them during pregnancy and it'll help the nipple to pop out. Yeah. That's what we hear
sometimes too.
abby (29:58):
No, I just assumed that it would just pop it out. Like in that moment, not like long-term like, if you just
wear them, like it'll and then like next time your baby wants to nurse. You're like, Oh yeah, we're all
prepped over here.
dianne (30:08):
Know? Yeah. But I mean, there's not a lot of research behind it. Sometimes it can kind of like press on
that breast tissue. Um, reverse pressure softening. I don't know if we've ever talked about that on the
show, but reverse pressure. I'll put a link to it. Cause there's a, like, there's a really good, um,
informational piece about it. Um, I'll, I'll link that in the show notes, but reverse pressure softening, all
that is, is like kind of methodically going around the areola, pushing back, pushing that fluid back so that
the nipple pops out because honestly, a lot of this is just fluid retention when you're talking flat nipples.
Cool. Yeah. So that can work really well.
abby (30:50):
I mean, I think a lot of things, what happens with this, like you were saying is, is like a large areola, uh, or
like a really small nipple or a flat nipple, inverted nipple. A lot of times you hear, maybe you don't even
know that this is a thing for, for you to your breast or just your breast. Right. You're just like, okay, this is
just the girls. I've always hung out with whatever. Or maybe they're not girls. I don't, you know,
whatever your breasts don't have to have a gender. You're just whatever, just a body part that you're
used to. And then you're in the hospital, like you said, and somebody was like, Oh my God, you have
really big nipples or you have flat nipples or whatever. Like we better get a nipple shield over here. You

know, I don't know if you're going to be able to breastfeed. And then like, all this stuff starts happening
that causes panic when it's kind of similar to the whole, um, lip tied tongue tie thing that we were
talking about. How like, you know, we get really panicked about it, but sometimes it doesn't affect
anything at all. Right. You know, it doesn't affect anything or like the interventions are kind of premature
or unnecessary or some other things could have been tried or whatever. And we're just kind of jumping
to cause we're very like intervention focused, you know? So it's just like, Oh, well we need to intervene
here. We need to do something when it could be that it's just not necessary to y'all at all. And you know,
give it a try, give it some time, like anybody else with nursing
dianne (32:13):
I've had. And this has happened more than once to me where somebody has said, I was told my nipples
were really big and I had no idea that that was like an issue. Or I had no idea that they were big or I even
had a partner say to me once they said my wife's nipples were really big. I didn't even think, I didn't
think anything. I don't think they're strange. Like these poor families, like she's walking around thinking,
she's like a circus freak now because people are like, your nipples are really big. I think one of them even
said, they asked to take a picture like for, you know, for like research or whatever, come on because the
nipples were so big and I'm like,
abby (32:54):
Well, some nipples are big. Some butts are big. I mean, I have a big, but you want to take a picture for
research, a picture of my ass, here go ahead Like Based on what, based on like, again, like these ideal
pictures of whatever you know, of this ideal image we have of, of bodies. And then it's like, well, it strays
from that. So it's strange when actually bodies just look all different. Right. And they're all made to birth
and nurse babies. Like, that's just how it is.
dianne (33:23):
That's kind of how I always think of it. And maybe it's wrong. Like maybe I am just like living in this
alternate universe where I am like, we have these bodies that are meant to birth and breastfeed these
babies. Why is it that our environment is trying to find a way for this not to happen naturally. Yeah.
We've managed to come this far. We, as, as a species, right. You managed to get to the year 2021 as a
species.
abby (33:50):
Barely. I mean that we're screwing it up. We weren't screwing it up before now. It's like, Oh my God.
dianne (33:55):
Yeah. But you know, like what happened if somebody had a big nipple back in, you know, whatever year
when babies were being born and the people say, Oh, well your nipples to big that your baby's just going
to have to drink tree sap,
abby (34:12):
Can you imagine the Hunter gatherer societies like, Oh my God, large nipple too large, too large. You're
ousted.
dianne (34:22):

It's insanity. It's insanity.
abby (34:25):
Yeah. I know we've been so fooled and tricked into thinking that our bodies are not, they don't work and
they don't function the way that they're supposed to. Um, when they look different from, you know, the
magazine
dianne (34:41):
Who looks like that. And I, you know, because of photoshop
abby (34:45):
Like that, this is what I always want to tell people, that person in that picture doesn't even look like that.
Right.
dianne (34:49):
That's just what I was going to say. They don't look like that either. Yeah. It's yeah. It's a farce.
abby (34:57):
Yeah. Well, thank you, Dianne. That was very informative.
dianne (35:01):
I aim to please, but don't worry about your nipples or your breasts. Your baby's going to breastfeed
beautifully.
abby (35:08):
Yeah. And if you need a little help, will join the club, you know, contact a lactation consultant or let us
know and we'll, you know, walk you through it. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:16):
Good luck. Bye. Bye. [inaudible].