Conflicting Information

Have you ever received conflicting breastfeeding information?

If you answered YES, where did it come from?

We are talking about conflicting information, and what you can do about it.  Don’t miss out.

If you are a new listener, we would love to hear from you.  Please consider leaving us a review on itunes or sending us an email with your suggestions and comments to badassbreastfeedingpodcast@gmail.com

WE HAVE TRANSCRIPTS!!  You can also add your email to our list and have episodes sent right to your inbox!

Things we talked about: 

Conflicting information at the hospital [4:29]

Dianne has a list [8:16]

Painful feeds [9:16]

Elimination diets [13:51]

Dairy issues [15:18]

Cluster feeding [22:42]

Things are too complicated [25:37]

Waking for feeds [26:49]

Listen to your baby [32:47]

Get explanations! [35:45]

Today’s Shout Out is to Eri Guajardo Johnson [22:02]

@birthbruja on Instagram

*This Episode is sponsored by Fairhaven Health and Sheila Darling Coaching

Links to information we discussed or episodes you should check out!

 https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/baby-friendly-hospitals/

 https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/episode/medical-info-to-flush-down-the-toilet/

 
Set up your consultation with Dianne

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/consultations/     

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https://diannecassidyconsulting.com/milklytheblog/

 
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Here is how you can connect with Dianne and Abby~

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• Dianne Cassidy http://www.diannecassidyconsulting.com

 
Music we use~

Music: "Levels of Greatness" from "We Used to Paint Stars in the Sky (2012)" courtesy of Scott Holmes at freemusicarchive.org/music/Scott Holmes

Transcript

dianne  (00:00):

hi. Welcome to the badass breastfeeding podcast. This is Dianne your lactation consultant.

abby  (00:26):

and I'm Abby. The badass breastfeeder. and today's episode is brought to you by fair Haven health. Stop battling with milk storage bags filled with either too much milk or too little milk. The milkies milk trays. Freeze your milk into one ounce sticks. And today's episode is also brought to you by Sheila Darling coaching. Sheila Darling is a social worker, certified hypnotherapist and mindfulness meditation teacher, and could be your start to a more peaceful life. Um, we'll hear more about these sponsors later, but in the meantime, you can head to badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com and check out the sponsor page because they make this podcast possible and check there and see if you can give them any of your business. And while you're there, scroll down and enter your email address and we'll send the episodes straight to your inbox. And now Dianne has our review of the week.

dianne  (01:19):

Yes, it comes from iTunes. And this is from HollyAmber, and it's new listener love. Yes, this is just what I needed right now. I am here for it. Thank you. I jumped and hollered with excitement at some of the research you have armed me with in my arsenal for the next person that tells me that my baby is too skinny and I need more milk fat. I actually cried listening to the breast sleeping episode. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you, Holly, Amber for putting this out there, that breast sleeping episode. Yeah. And that was a killer.

abby  (01:53):

I know people love that. I mean, it's such a big topic.

dianne  (01:57):

It's a huge topic and thank you very much for the review. We love it. She put this on iTunes for us, which is great. Um, you can also send us an email if you want to at Badassbreastfeedingpodcast@gmail.com and we get those too and that's all I got today. We're going to talk about some fun stuff.

abby  (02:17):

Yeah. So I don't know if you've ever noticed. Sometimes when you have a baby, you hear one thing and then from someone else you hear a completely different thing.

dianne  (02:28):

Yeah. That happens every once in a while. In a blue moon.

abby  (02:33):

very rarely yeah. Sarcasm we're being sarcastic. Right. Okay.

dianne  (02:37):

Yes. Totally sarcastic. Right now.

abby  (02:41):

It's like on social media when you need the font, just to make sure. Oh yeah, they haven't invented that yet. I don't know why. Um, yeah. So WTF, as my dad says, WTF man

dianne  (02:54):

close the front door!

abby  (02:59):

Uh, yeah, it's really frustrating. And it's no wonder people don't know what to do, um, about breastfeeding or any birth or, you know, anything like that.

dianne  (03:10):

And I find it very entertaining that the people that are usually giving this information are not the breastfeeding people.

abby  (03:21):

Oh my God. I just saw the most hilarious thing in my newsfeed. I started following all these like media outlets. I don't know why it's not a good time, not a good time, not a good time to be reading all the headlines. I'm going to have to unfollow them. But I was like, I want some like, just like a little more, like, not just like, you know, the sensationalized kind of media, you know, I was looking for something a little more like balanced, but I think I clicked too many. But anyway, there was this one, there was this one headline that was like scientists suggest, um, that we stopped social distancing. And so I was like, I'm just here for the comments, because I want to, I don't know what it was like this, you know, whatever it was, this clickbait stuff of like, you know, probably a few scientists were like, it's time to stop social distances. And get our life back. You know, I don't know whatever. And someone's comment was like, now who are these scientists? Because if it's, if it's quote, my gynecologist said we should stop social distancing that I'm not listening to them. Whatever. I thought it was hilarious. Like, it's so true, like who is saying this? I mean, it was it coming from because that matters.

dianne  (04:29):

It does matter. And that we're going to talk about that today. We're going to talk about like things that you can do to combat this because the contradicting info is out of control and I hear it everywhere. So I'm in a peds office, you know, seeing these families coming in and one of the benefits of being in a peds office and one of the benefits of being actually in private practice is that I see people that have delivered at every hospital in town. So I get to hear what's going on at all the hospitals and every single person I'm going to, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, it's every single one because I, I really feel like it is doesn't matter where they deliver. They complained to me about the contradicting information that the labor delivery nurse told them one thing. And then their nurse that was there overnight told them something different.

abby  (05:21):

I gonna say it varies from nurse to nurse. Yeah. And then not even hospital the hospital.

dianne  (05:26):

Oh. And then the lactation consultant told them something different and yeah. Shift to shift. And then, you know, then you had the hospital pediatrician come in and say something completely different. And then sometimes they're openly contradicting the other one. Oh, don't listen to that.

abby  (05:40):

sometimes they don't like each other.

dianne  (05:44):

Its insanity. And you're just a brand new mother. Right. Trying to get by. You're in a sleep deprived fog, probably coming off some kind of medication too. And what are you supposed to be doing? You don't know what you're doing.

abby  (06:02):

I remember that being in the hospital. Cause we were in the hospital. I don't know. A couple of days I had an episiotomy. So like

dianne  (06:08):

Oh God don't get me started,

abby  (06:10):

They, you know, I was there for like a three days maybe, um, total. I don't, you know who, who, who remembers, but Like They would do this. They would just come in and they would be like, what's going on here? Oh no, this is all wrong. We need to completely redo all of this. They would like redo my IVs and stuff. They like, Oh my God, she totally did this so wrong. And then they would like redo it and all. And then like the, the, the person you believe is the, is the second one because you believe that they're like, because they're so outraged. Right. They're so outraged. And they're like, Oh my God, this is totally wrong. So you're like, Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God, it must be wrong. And you're just on this roller coaster.

dianne  (06:52):

It's insane. It is. It's crazy. So that is where we really get. That is one of our biggest newborn obstacles I feel like is that in the hospital, you're getting so much crazy information and you don't even know what you should be doing or believing. And then they want to act like you should know, that's my favorite. That they're like, what? You didn't wake up the baby to eat. Why didn't you do that? And it's like, well, how are you supposed to know? First of all, they're telling you when to poop. And then the next time they come in, they're expecting that you should know everything. So it can be really, really overwhelming and very, very frustrating. And I, I hear this all the time. So we're going to talk about the contradictions.

abby  (07:36):

and on top of it, they're like bottom line. Like Then we have the policy of the protocol, the procedure of like pushing the formula. Right. You know? Cause that's just like a normal, that's like they have that. They're like, Oh, we can use this. And so let's just, and then we, you know, and then we have that agenda too absolutely everything completely, almost impossible. It's a miracle that people leave the hospital breastfeeding.

dianne  (08:03):

It really, it really is. It really is because some of the things that come out are just ridiculous. So what are the things that you hear? So have a list. I made a list.

abby  (08:15):

I love lists.

dianne  (08:16):

So we hear all the time, you know, with the, we get it with the newborns and then we also see it in the doctor's offices. You know, like, they'll tell you something in the hospital. Then you go to your pediatrician and they'll tell you something completely different. Sometimes even pediatrician to pediatrician, like there might be more than one pediatrician and the same office. And you're going to hear different things from both of those pediatricians, which is, can be really well.

abby  (08:37):

I don't do it that way. That's not how I do it. Well, what do you mean? Oh, you do it. This shouldn't be, this should just be like, Oh way. I know there's not like multiple ways of doing this.

dianne  (08:46):

This is why we need training. And I don't know if you guys listened to the baby friendly hospital episode where they were talking about were talking about one of the steps to being a baby friendly hospital, is that everybody has the same training. And that's why this is important because that contradicting information is really confusing. So it is nice if we all have the same information. So one of the things that we hear a lot is that breastfeeding hurts, right? That's like one of the biggest things to hear breastfeeding hurts breastfeeding. Isn't supposed to be painful, but when people tell you, Oh yeah, of course it's going to hurt. Of course it's going to hurt. Like I've had like the nurses in the hospital tell mothers, Oh yeah, of course. It's going to hurt. Of course it's hurt. You're breastfeeding. That's what happens. Yeah. It's going to hurt you. It's not supposed to be painful. You're not supposed to have pain that lasts throughout the whole feeding. You're not supposed to be miserable and in pain the entire time until your nipples tough it up. Which I still don't know what that means. And I've been in this field for, I don't know how long now and nipples toughening up. Isn't a thing. So if somebody is telling you, Oh, but they told me it was going to hurt. So I was just trying to stick it out, trying to stick it out. Like, yeah.

abby  (10:07):

It's only going to get worse if it hurts. Now, now there's a difference between like, okay, I've never done this before. This feels really weird. And maybe it's uncomfortable and maybe you have different people have different, you know, sensitivity. Maybe some person feels nothing. Maybe another person's like, Oh, it's always just a little bit weird. But Pain, pain, pain Is a sign that something's wrong.

dianne  (10:29):

Like, and I always try to, because everybody has a different threshold and you know, different sensations and everything. I always try to make sure that I tell breast and chest feeding parents. If it lasts, if this pain that you feel lasts throughout the feeding, that is something we need to fix. If it happens in the very beginning and then it goes away within like 30 seconds, that's your body adapting. And that's okay. And even that is going to go away. Well, you're not going to feel, you'll feel the tugging, which might be strange. It might be a strange sensation, but you should not feel painful feedings. You should not have that pain last the entire time the baby is on. That is not okay.

abby  (11:13):

I think in our culture too, we've also just become like, well, it hurts. Who cares? You know, you're just whatever. Just get, just suck it up. Hey, whatever, you know, you're, you're a, you're a, you're a person who had a baby and is now breastfeeding or chest feeding. It's like, you're supposed to just be okay with pain. Like we don't care. Like if it, if it was a man in a hurts, they'd be like, Oh no, this is not supposed to, or we need to fix this. You know? But for it, with us, it's just like, whatever, just deal with it. It doesn't have to hurt. And it doesn't, we can help it not make it hurt less.

dianne  (11:46):

Right. And when I tell me, well, the nurse said, you're breastfeeding. Of course, it's going to be painful. Basically. They're telling you like, suck it up. Like you said, like, suck it up you're breastfeeding. How would we have sustained as a society for millions of years by breastfeeding? If it was a painful experience, right? Like who would do it? Nobody. It's like, okay, slam your finger in the door 12 times a day and continue to do it. Like, come on, nobody's doing that. So it's no wonder that people quit because they get the message that it's going to be painful. And then they come and see me. And I'm like, no, it's not supposed to be painful. They said it was going to be, and everybody said, it's going to be painful. No, it's not supposed to be painful. It's painful. That's, that's a problem. And any other aspect of our lives, if we have pain, we know it's an issue. Right.

abby  (12:41):

Right. if it hurts, when you pee, you're not just like, Oh, okay, well I just need to suck it up and just like push through this pain of no, you're like, Oh my God, something's wrong. I need to hurry. I need to fix it.

dianne  (12:56):

I mean, it's just insane to me that people think that this is okay. Like, no, it's not. You're not supposed to. And then when you get that, when they bleed and crack, then they toughen up and then it's fine. No, you're not supposed to be bleeding. Like why do people think that bleeding is the threshold of where you have the happiness of where you're breastfeeding relationship.

abby  (13:16):

That is a really good sign when it starts bleeding. You're almost there crazy.

dianne  (13:20):

Oh my God. I could go on about that forever. So a lot of medical professionals that I have heard will say that the pain is normal, but it's really not. And it's very important to remember. It's not supposed to last the whole time. If you latch the baby and say, Oh, this is painful, but then it goes away in 30 seconds. That's like I said, that is normal. But I feel like nobody really explains that. They just say, Oh yeah, painful. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're going to have pain. Of course. It's going to be painful. That's just part of it. Pain is just part of it. Yeah. My next contradicting info is the elimination diet thing.

abby  (13:53):

Oh like your baby is fussy. Therefore you should cut out dairy.

dianne  (13:59):

and all the other things like, I, I really see. I mean, I see people that do this all the time and it's usually the first line of defense. Like, Oh, I don't even know. Like I get so frustrated with this. It's not even funny. But if a baby is fussy or there's anything going on with the baby spitting up fussiness, um, gosh, poopy like pooping too much, like a lot of different issues that you see. Those are things that a lactation consultant can help you with. Those are not necessarily like pediatrician problems, but that's exactly where they go. My baby's fussy. My baby's spitting up. Okay. Let's eliminate dairy. That's the first thing we're going to go to, like, why don't we see a lactation consultant and we can figure out exactly what's going on. That would probably be the better, the better thing. They're just guessing there. They're just saying to you, Oh, well it could be this. So why don't we just, you know, why don't we just, you know,

abby  (15:06):

They don't know. So they're just saying something to like, to T to like, get you out of the office. You know? They're like, Oh, well, yeah, maybe that, you know, we'll just do that.

dianne  (15:18):

I mean, it is not common in other cultures for foods to be an issue. This is something here. This is a, this dairy thing is like Western society kind of thing. Like this is not.

abby  (15:31):

Well actually the consumption of it too.

dianne  (15:33):

Oh is it really?

abby  (15:35):

Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of cultures that don't like at all, like consume dairy at the levels that we do, but that is a whole other podcast that I'll start someday

dianne  (15:43):

The Dairy Podcast

abby  (15:47):

It doesn't just have to be dairy. Anything people say like, you know, they say it about anything, you know, any kind of, we were just, we were just saying dairy because using it as one of the things that people freak out about, but breast milk doesn't tend to operate like that. Right? Like you couldn't, you eat this, all the food goes into your boob and squirts out your nipple and then irritates your baby.

dianne  (16:07):

It's just not realistic. And yes, if your baby is fussy, it doesn't, it's not always related to something to a feeding issue. And then people say, Oh, well, there was blood in his poop. They tested his poop. There's blood in the poop. You're going to find that 98% of the time. I'm sorry. And I hate to tell people that because it's going to freak them out, but that is not uncommon. And if it's like, unless you are seeing like actual like blood, but they're like definitely. Did you see the blood? No, but they said it's trace amounts in there. So I have to give up dairy. I have not - I've seen a lot of people give up dairy and I have not seen a lot of babies that actually have a problem with dairy. So I did actually meet somebody the other day whose baby had actually had a dairy issue. And in fact, now he's four and she just had her second baby. Now he's four and still can't have dairy. Like, and the family has food allergies, like extensive food allergies. So that makes sense to me. But usually what you see is mom going off of it sometimes they're like, I haven't noticed a difference. I've been off dairy for two weeks and I'm like, all right, that's probably not what it is then. But that's what the doctor said. It was. So that's what I have to do.

abby  (17:25):

Breast milk. I mean, breast milk is not made from the contents of your stomach, not blood to product. You're not just eating. It's not, it's not, it's not like that.

dianne  (17:36):

And babies are fussy. I think we're expecting that. Like these babies are going to be like, you know, eat, sleep poop and not make a sound unless they need to do one of those things.

abby  (17:47):

That's what they do on TV.

dianne  (17:48):

I know that's true. And in the movies, that's what your babies are doing. So if there's anything outside of that, they get worried about it. And it's not necessarily something that you're doing. Like, w we're not, you're not doing it.

abby  (18:04):

It puts it all on you. And you're not doing anything to make your baby fussy. Your baby's fussy because they're a baby.

dianne  (18:10):

And then when somebody says, well, what did you eat there? That's obviously them saying, you did something wrong. You did this. And it's not an it's. So it is so unbelievable how damaging those statements are. And I've heard even the, some of the I've had colleagues very, very, very educated in this field. Colleagues say to me, the baby was fussy. My husband said, well, you did drink a coffee. That's not right. Right. Like there. And they know in their own head that that's not right, but they need that verification from somebody else who knows. And I'm like, no, that's not right. Okay. I just needed to make sure I know. I know in my head, that is probably not right, but I just needed to, I just needed to say it out loud, make sure. And you're getting that from your partner who 'A' never breastfed and '2', is a male. So why would we maybe, maybe, yeah. Yeah. But in this case it was so, um, w why are we listening to them?

abby  (19:18):

They don't, I mean, unless they're a lactation consultant, then I would say you don't have the answers yet. Right. Should we talk here more about that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. We'll be right back. Today's episode is brought to you by Fair Haven Health. Are you tired of defrosting, breast milk from your storage bags only to find that it's too much or too little? What if you could defrost the exact amount of milk you need? Every time. The milkies milk trays look like regular ice cube trays, but have 16 semi cylinder cavities that each hold one ounce of milk. When it's time to feed your baby or prepare bottles for the day, just pop However many breastmilk sticks you need into any type of, of brand of bottle, nothing wasted, no extra breast milk leftover, tempting your caregiver to overfeed your baby and blow through your precious stash. Once the sticks are frozen, just transfer them to a freezer bag, freeing up the milk trays for your next batch of breast milk. And they come with lids. So you can stack them, which will free up space in your freezer. They're reusable, environmentally friendly, made with food safe plastic, and can be used for baby food later on no BPA, phalates or dyes co check out Uh, the milkies milk trays at fairHavenhealth.com. That's F a I R H a V E Nhealth.com and use code badass for 15% off of your purchase there. And today's episode is also brought to you by Sheila Darling coaching. The transition to Parenthood can be intense. Feelings of anxiety. Depression are actually quite common. Your feelings should not be ignored. You deserve space where you can process this transition and all of the emotional and psychological changes that come with it. You may hear people telling you to just enjoy it, or it all goes by so fast. These statements are dismissive of the changes we go through. When we have a new baby transitioning to a new family member, isn't always the peaceful journey we see on TV. Sheila Darling coaching can be that professional support person that Dianne and I are always saying, there is no shame in getting Sheila Darling is a social worker, certified hypnotherapist and mindfulness meditation teacher, and could be your start to a more peaceful life head to Sheila darling.com to schedule your consultation today and mentioned this podcast when scheduling and receive 10% off of a coaching package, these sponsors and their promo codes can be found in our show notes. Under this episode on badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com our show notes will also include further information about things we talk about in this episode and at badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com. You'll also find our breastfeeding resources, all of our other episodes and information about scheduling your very own. On-line a one-on-one lactation consultation with Dianne and, uh, this week, shout out, goes to, um, Eri Guajardo Johnson on, uh, Instagram. You can find them @birthbruja that's birth B R U J a. And this is liberational de-colonial practices of healing, birth work and life. They offer workshops, events, Um, they have a book club and a podcast, and it's just very informative, uh, Instagram feed. So give them a follow, um, @birthbruja on Instagram and now back to conflicting information.

dianne  (22:42):

My next one is cluster feeding. Cluster feeding is normal, and often you will hear people say, Nope, baby should be on. Leave him on for 15 minutes. That goes along with my next one of the timed feeds latch up, keep them on for 15 minutes and that's it. They should not be eating longer than 15 minutes. No baby should be eating longer than 15 minutes, or no babies should be eating any shorter. They need to be on at least 15 minutes for them to get what they need to get or else they're not going to get the hind milk. I hear that.

abby  (23:20):

Or they can't just sit there and rest either and just be there, just because it's a nice place to be. This was my whole thing in the hospital because, you know, I gave birth to Jack who, um, they told me he was hungry because I wasn't making enough milk. So then I had to use formula because there is a piece of conflicting information. If I ever heard one, my milk will come in. If I use formula that helps. I didn't know anything about like, you know, I didn't know anything. So I just gave formula with the idea, like, this is going to be like really helpful for my milk to come in. And then they're like, okay, so you breastfeed, um, for 20 minutes on each side and then give a bottle of formula. And that was my life for months. And I was like, it's, it's also feels wrong. It's just like so wrong. It's so wrong. And so many levels to just also it's through the night and every time to be like timing, 20 minutes on each breast and then giving a bottle of formula and the baby's trying to sleep too.

dianne  (24:27):

So many reasons why that is not okay, but they just kind of like throw these numbers at you and

abby  (24:36):

Right. And then you become obsessed with them. I was obsessed with those numbers. I mean, that's exactly how I, yeah.

dianne  (24:41):

And there's no reasoning behind it. They just say, this is what you do. Or if you say, if you go into a office, I don't care. If it's your peds office, your ob office, your primary care, your therapist. I don't care who it is. If you go in there and you say, my baby is feeding for an hour at a time, they're going to tell you, your baby, shouldn't be feeding for an hour at a time, or that you don't have enough milk or you are, you know, just take them off after 15 minutes because no baby needs to feed longer than that. There's so much more to it than that. Like you can't just assume like, okay, let's just, you know, take the baby off because we know that they've gotten what they need in a certain amount of time. Like, how do you know that? How do you know? I mean, 15 minutes might even be too much. They might be already done, but just comforting and soothing. And

abby  (25:37):

That's the other thing. There's more to it. There's also less to it. Stop. It's not that complicated. You put your baby to your breast and leave them alone.

dianne  (25:46):

We make this way harder than it needs to be. It's

abby  (25:49):

So not hard. And we are just like nothing to do with clocks. Like people have lived for hundreds of thousands of years without clocks, like feeding their babies. We just put them there, just put them there and stop and then go about, do something else with your brain.

dianne  (26:06):

I know it's totally, totally easy. You don't need to worry about how long they're there or what they're doing while they're there. And it just, it becomes this obsession of,

abby  (26:17):

Okay, are they eating? Are they eating? Are they comfort nursing? Right? Who cares? You don't need to know.

dianne  (26:23):

And when people Tell you that they can't comfort nurse, that's not, that's a contradiction too, because they will comfort nurse. I'm sorry. That's what they're, that's what they do. That's what they're supposed to be doing. Now. They need to, they need their mother. That's what they need to be doing. Um, all right. The time fees, blah, blah. Oh. And the waking the baby to feed. And don't wake the baby to feed That's All the time. Should I wake the baby up to feed? Should I not like the baby to feed? What do I do with the baby? What happens to the baby? Will the baby die? If I don't wake the baby up to feed, will they shrivel up? What's going to happen with the baby. You didn't, you wake the baby. Why didn't you wake the baby? Don't ever wake a sleeping baby. Like it's constant. It's like, Oh my gosh. That is just so there's so much contradiction with that. I mean, did you hear one way or the other?

abby  (27:19):

Yeah, I mean, yeah. So, um, I could never let my baby sleep. I was always poking him and making sure he was breathing, which was just a constantly waking him up. Um, I don't remember with Jack. I don't remember. I mean, I remember with Exley that, um, I finally got the right information and so I was like, I just asked the question. I said, how long, you know, how long, how long can you do I wake him up or not? Um, and it was Nancy Mohrbacher who was like, you know, just let him sleep, get some sleep, let him sleep. If it's like more than five hours, wake him up. Right. And so I was like, okay, cool. You know, thank God. I was like, Oh cool. Five hours of sleep. Wow. That's amazing.

dianne  (28:07):

But this is another thing that I hear very different information, conflicting info on, depending on which doctor is talking and or which nurses talking, which medical professionals talking.

abby  (28:18):

Yeah. Cause you all straight up here both.

dianne  (28:20):

Oh yeah. You'll hear, you know, they can go 4 or 5 hours

abby  (28:22):

No, you need to wake them up. No, you need to wake up every two hours. Every two hours, you have to wake them up, wake them up. You gotta wake them up.

dianne  (28:28):

And this is just me that feels like this. But whenever there's like differences that vast from medical professional to medical professional, that makes me believe that they're just making it up.

abby  (28:41):

Actually. I do remember with Jack, because that was the whole time feedings and bottle. So then it was like feed for 20 minutes on each side, give a bottle. And then I had like, then I had like, how am I didn't even have that much time left until two hours. It was two hours again. Yeah. And then I'd start the whole thing over again all day, all night now. And it was so unnecessary.

dianne  (29:04):

I like to look at it from a baby's perspective. Right. I know that's crazy. But I like to say, okay, so what is your baby doing? Is your baby gaining weight Well? Are they pooping and peeing? Are they feeding, you know, frequent several times a day, whatever, you know, like, I don't want to, I don't like putting these blanket statements that are just going to cover every single baby that's been born on the planet today.

abby  (29:31):

That's a good point. Yeah.

dianne  (29:32):

So we really need to look at all the situations. If your baby is gaining well, I would not be waking them during the night because they're feeding frequently during the day, if your baby is struggling to gain weight, then maybe we will have you waking the baby up after three or four hours overnight. But you get, tend to get into this situation where you're waking a baby to eat overnight. That doesn't want to be woken up. And now you're just wasting your time trying to get this baby awake to feed when they're not feeding well, because they're sleeping. And then there's like, well, right. Cause they don't want to be awake either everybody wants to sleep. And then you have people that tell you don't wake the baby. Don't wake the baby during the day. They're napping. They'll wake up when they're ready. Don't, don't wake the baby up to sometimes, especially in that first week or two of your baby's life, they will sleep during the day. Like they will just, you let them sleep. They'll sleep four or five hours during the daytime. And you know, aunt Sally over there is telling you don't wake the baby up, baby sleeping. Well, then your baby's going to be up half the night because they just had their long stretch during the day. So during the daytime, I always tell people like, if you wake your baby up during the day, every couple of hours, cause you're awake anyway, everybody's awake, you know, like, and you want your baby to get on that kind of a routine eventually, and then let them sleep at night. But one of the things that we see a lot of is you go to the pediatrician like, you know, when your baby's first born and then maybe, uh, you know, another time during that week or so, and then maybe at two weeks, then maybe at a month and then you don't see them again until the baby is like two or three months old. So in the, in between that time, parents are too afraid to kind of take it on their own, to stop waking their baby up. I've seen parents at three and four months still waking their baby up overnight. Like still setting an alarm and waking their baby overnight because that's what they were told to do when their baby was a week old and nobody ever corrects it for them. That is just like such a contra-indication of, of what you're supposed to be doing.

abby  (31:41):

And so exhausting and not necessary.

dianne  (31:43):

Exactly. So exhausting and not necessary.

abby  (31:45):

I feel like we think if we're not being tortured by it, then we're doing something wrong. Like we're supposed to be tortured by this whole process. And if it's going ease, if it's, you know, if there's an easier way out, then we're somehow not like a, you know, a good enough parent or we're not, you know, we're not, you know, we have to constantly be martyring ourselves. Oh my gosh, in order to have value, we make it like, it can, it can be easy. It can get easier. There are, that can be things that are easier. Like it's not easy. Like no, no, just Parenthood is not easy, but like sleeping at night is easier than waking your baby up. First of all, it's not necessary. And it's just easier. Get some sleep. You're allowed to sleep. You're allowed to sleep. We're not even allowed to sleep. We're not allowed to eat. We're not allowed to sleep. We're not allowed to like, you know, have anything comfortable. We're not allowed to sit on the couch. Then you're just right. If you sit on the couch, then you're lazy. How could you possibly be sitting on the couch? You lazy cow.

dianne  (32:47):

But it's so crazy to me that we don't listen to our baby. You know, like this, we don't trust the process. Like your baby knows what they want to do. Listen to them, follow their lead. They're always right. They know what they want to do, but we want to always interject our own agenda or somebody else's telling us what our agenda should be is usually what it is. Somebody else's interjecting their agenda onto you. And that's not right. They don't have your baby. It's totally different. I had somebody say to me the other day, and this was fantastic. I should make a meme out of it. Somebody said that they were, that they heard or they were told, why are you listening to somebody? And this had to do with babies. Why are you listening to somebody who never did what you're trying to do? It is not their experience. And it's true. Like this is your baby that you grew that you birthed. Why are we listening to what somebody else tells us about what they need? Like they don't know

abby  (33:48):

If I needed information about mountain climbing. I'm certainly not going to ask somebody Who's never mountain climbed.

dianne  (33:53):

Right?

abby  (33:54):

Hey Dad, what about mountain climbing? I'm sure. He'll say something too. He'll be like, well in mountain climbing. No, no, no, no, no.

dianne  (34:02):

WTF.

abby  (34:03):

people like people just do this. It's like, no, consider the source. Yeah.

dianne  (34:10):

This is your baby. Nobody knows your baby. Like you do. Nobody. Nobody knows your baby. Like you do. So what are the cool things that happened once when I was working in the hospital was I walked into this room and it was day two of this baby's life walked into the room and I'm Dianne the lactation consultant. And the partner says to me, okay, let me get your opinion on something. And went on to ask me a question. I can't remember what the question was, but he was very, he wasn't even going to like pretend that the contract, that the con the con flipping information, I can't even talk. That the conflicting information wasn't happening. He was like, all right, I heard this from this person and this, from this person, what are you going to tell me about this? And I was like, okay, let's talk about it. You know? And I went on to tell it, to explain, which is the other thing that's missing. Why the story is different today than it was yesterday. Now your baby's a little bit more awake. We're going to be doing this with your baby today, blah, blah, blah. So this, this is what you should expect on the second day. Um, there might be, you know, hearing test today, which might make your baby more fussy. Maybe there's a circumcision involved, which might make your baby more fussy. Maybe you're discharging today. Know like there's other things that need to be said. It's day 2. Day One was a different story. But nobody says that nobody explains anything. You should be getting explanations. And if you're not, if somebody says to you do 15 minutes per side, ask them why, why, why, why do I need to do that? Why is that important? What if my baby doesn't want to feed for 15 minutes, then I'm, I should fight them and keep the try to attempt to keep them there for 15 minutes or else they're not getting what they need. Like why, what is the reasoning behind what they're telling you? You can ask that there's no reason why you can't counter their information with a question. You know, there's nothing wrong with that. Find out where this information is coming from. If somebody is telling you something, or if you're reading it somewhere, make sure there's a research link somewhere. Like if you're reading something like just some random blog that doesn't belong to me or Abby, then, you know, like find out where that information is coming from. If it doesn't sound right, it probably isn't, you know, get good information. It's out there. Sometimes you just really have to look for it. True. That's all I got. Hey, thanks for letting me be on my soapbox. Yeah, my contradicting information.

abby  (36:59):

And we'll see you next week. Bye

Speaker 1 (37:14):

[inaudible].