Are You Worried About Foremilk and Hindmilk?

Have you ever heard of foremilk and hindmilk? 

Are you worried your baby won’t get hind milk if they don’t feed a specific way?

Are you confused by this whole concept of different milks?

You aren’t alone.  And we are about to squash this whole idea of fancy milk.

If you are a new listener, we would love to hear from you.  Please consider leaving us a review on itunes or sending us an email with your suggestions and comments to badassbreastfeedingpodcast@gmail.com

WE HAVE TRANSCRIPTS!!  You can also add your email to our list and have episodes sent right to your inbox!

Things we talked about:

Revolution Parenting is here!!  [4:13]

What is fore milk and hind milk [7:38]

Time is obsolete [9:21]

The fore milk / hind milk questions [11:22]

There are not 2 kinds of milk [12:50]

Hind milk and weight gain [14:43]

Parent blame [19:45]

Timed feeds [21:08]

Total volume of milk consumed [27:35]

What the baby is doing at the breast/chest is more important than the time spent there [32:44]

*This Episode is sponsored by Original Sprout and Sheila Darling Coaching

Links to information we discussed or episodes you should check out!

http://www.nancymohrbacher.com/articles/2010/6/27/worries-about-foremilk-and-hindmilk.html

Set up your consultation with Dianne

https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com/consultations/     

Check out Dianne’s blog here~

https://diannecassidyconsulting.com/milklytheblog/

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• https://badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com

Here is how you can connect with Dianne and Abby~

• Abby Theuring  https://www.thebadassbreastfeeder.com
• Dianne Cassidy http://www.diannecassidyconsulting.com

Music we use~

Music: "Levels of Greatness" from "We Used to Paint Stars in the Sky (2012)" courtesy of Scott Holmes at freemusicarchive.org/music/Scott Holmes

Transcript

dianne (00:00):

Welcome to The badass breastfeeding podcast. This is Dianne. Your lactation consultant.

abby (00:25):

And this is Abby. The badass breastfeeder and today's episode is brought to you by original sprout. Original sprout carries safe, effective, and pediatrician, tested shampoos, conditioners, styling, and body care products produced and packed in California USA. And today's episode is also brought to you by Sheila Darling coaching. Sheila Darling is a social worker, a certified hypnotherapist and mindfulness meditation teacher. And we will hear more from our sponsors later. Um, but now you can't well, not now later, also later, even later later go to badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com. No, just right when you're done right. When the end of this episode is over, go to badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com and check out our sponsor page. Um, and see if you can give any of our sponsors your business because the sponsors are what makes this podcast possible. Um, and while you're there, you can scroll down and enter your email address and get episodes sent straight to your inbox every Monday. And, uh, Dianne now I think has our review of the week. I always say I think, but I know for sure. I know, I know it's a fact.

dianne (01:30):

I'm not just going to show up with this review.

abby (01:33):

I think Dianne has our review of the week. I don't want to be all presumptuous and just assume that she has it.

dianne (01:38):

Well, I do. So you happen to be right this week, Abby, this comes from, let me move it a little bit here. I got all these screens and everything going here. So this is from Kim, from Rochester and she says, you've made me smile during the most isolating time. Thank you so much for your podcast. I discovered it around the start of the pandemic. When my last baby was nine months old, he's now 22 months, just a little separation from this. I had to like really do the math in my head to figure out how long this pandemic has been. Like Holy shit.

abby (02:14):

I know, nine months pandemic 22 months. Like it was like, wow, this is not my strong point, but we get it.

dianne (02:21):

Yes, we do. It's been a long time. He's now 22 months. And I was in tears tonight about weaning my last baby, because I feel it's time, but it's such a loss to know you're done after you've gone through so much to make it work. I've listened to every episode. I eagerly await the new one every week. Still you've gotten me through late nights unpacking after we moved, got me through my doing endless dishes and laundry with three kids home 24/7. This has been the most isolating time and I cannot thank you enough. I've been through so many breastfeeding problems breastfeeding each baby longer than the next. I'm not going to share all the bad experiences I've had with medical professionals. Just thank you for the, to listen and hear That I am not alone. Please, please, please do a parenting podcast. Remember you mentioned, I remember you mentioning it a while ago. You make me feel that what I have done to be a responsive parent is worth it and continue to give me the confidence in my decisions. Thanks so much, PS. I love Abby's comments about capitalism too.

abby (03:19):

Right on.

dianne (03:23):

So we're so happy to have been with you through all the things.

abby (03:26):

That's fantastic. Can't imagine moving with three little kids during a pandemic.

dianne (03:30):

Oh my gosh. I know that's not moving anyway. It sounds awful. But then any moving,

abby (03:35):

moving is terrible.

dianne (03:36):

Oh, add the rest to it. Oh my goodness. And it's just so much. I felt, I don't know what I would've done. If I had like a baby and then toddlers during a pandemic, when you can't leave the house and you're schooling with them and you're doing all the things and it's just, it's so much.

abby (03:59):

Yeah. It's been really, really hard. And we are doing the parenting podcast. Speaking of the parenting podcast. Good call. I was like, we got to tell these people that we're doing the podcast. Cause nobody knows.

dianne (04:11):

Nobody knows its our secret.

abby (04:13):

Yeah. So check it out. It's called revolution parenting. Cause we're starting a parenting revolution and you can find it on iTunes. I think it's coming to all. It will be in all of the places where you find podcasts. I think that it takes a little while to get to some places like, I don't know Spotify or Spotify.

dianne (04:32):

It's on Spotify now. iTunes is up. But I think some of the other ones are like filtering through. So you'll find it, but it's out there.

abby (04:41):

So yeah. Yeah. Listen and, and we'd love to yeah, today we're going to bless. So yeah, you can leave reviews on iTunes or anywhere you want and Oh, I forgot about that. That's all right.

dianne (04:58):

Hopefully, you know, yes. You hear my spiel every week. I'm just sitting here holding my cup of coffee, ready to complain about our topic.

abby (05:05):

I know. Yeah. Here's a, here's a here we're getting into a controversial topic today who knew that the fat content of breast milk could be a controversial topic. Well, I knew cause I'm on social media. And so I know that if you want to like tear the walls down today, you can just talk about like fat content in breast milk and everyone will lose their minds.

dianne (05:27):

And everybody thinks they know what they're talking about too.

abby (05:29):

Everybody is an expert. On fat content in breast milk. Yeah. So we're going to break it down and I don't know, you probably have you guys heard of fore milk and hind milk.

dianne (05:42):

because you know, your breast just like slammed the door on the, fore milk after 10 minutes and opens the door to the hind milk, right? Yeah. Doesn't your breast work like that.

abby (05:54):

And an one more thing to worry about that's you need is one more thing to uselessly and needlessly and unnecessarily think about and worry about,

dianne (06:03):

Because I hear that all the time. Well, it's the baby been on long enough? Are they going to get the hind milk? What if the baby doesn't get the hind milk? The doctor said to that if I leave the baby on for this long, 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 18 minutes, whatever. Put in a number, then the baby's going to get the Hind milk. So the baby wouldn't stay on that long. So now they're not going to get the hind milk

abby (06:24):

fucking doctor, right?

dianne (06:26):

The hind milk, the Hind milk. Where's the hind milk. I hate it.

abby (06:32):

Okay. So let's talk about what is fore milk and what is Hindmilk?

dianne (06:35):

What did that, do we want to, do we want to read the thing or what should we just the, um, Nancy Mohrbacher. Oh yeah. Well,

abby (06:44):

I mean we can, I mean read the whole article?

dianne (06:47):

No, not the whole article, but she had some good points

abby (06:49):

In here and she does have a good, some good points in here. So we're going over like, um, Nancy Mohrbacher is a lactation consultant who writes a lot of books and things and she has a, um, a great post, um, about for milk and Hindmilk. Um, and she really just breaks it down, um, about why this concern and why these worries are not necessary.

dianne (07:20):

And this article is from 2010. And one of the books that she is referencing in here is from 2003, this has been going like we're almost 20 years later now. And people are still like, Oh my God, fore milk and Hind milk.

abby (07:38):

I know I hate the person who like, even just came up with this. I know who decided this. I have my capitalist suspicion. But anyway, it's totally out there. Um, so fore milk is the milk that your baby gets right when they start nursing. So it is, you know, the, the milk, the first milk that comes out as they're nursing and it's lower in fat content because it takes the body a minute to start making fat or something.

dianne (08:13):

Just the way it is

abby (08:16):

And this has the milk further as the, as, as more and more milk comes out, the fat content continues to increase. And as we get to the, to the, to the back of the breast or the hind milk, I don't know what you're saying to the breast. I don't want to say empty the breasts. I hate the word empty. And when it comes to breasts, because they're not empty, but, um, the milk that's fattier has higher fat content.

dianne (08:40):

So the, the breasts, like as it's draining becomes fattier, the milk becomes fattier as it's draining. So if your baby is an efficient feeder, even if they're on for five minutes, they're draining, you know, they're, they're getting the milk that they need to get. And they're going to be getting the fatty milk because your body is going to adapt to what your baby is doing. So we don't really need to worry if we put so much concentration and to my gosh, we need to leave the baby on a certain amount of time that it doesn't matter the time it matters the baby and the feeding and the frequency of the feeding. That's what matters. The time is obsolete. We don't want to, we don't even care about that has nothing to do with the time. Your body does not switch to fatty milk after a certain amount of time,

abby (09:35):

Because everybody, every baby feeds for different amounts of time. Some babies take a really long time to feed some babies, take a short time to feed some breasts, hold a lot of milk all at once. Some breasts hold smaller amounts of milk at once. And none of this matters, Nope. Your body knows your body just knows. Like, like, remember that humans have survived this long before this podcast where we were discussing fore milk and Hindmilk. Like, you know, your body knows your baby and knows how to make the milk and the appropriate amounts of nutrients. I mean, someone found out, I guess, that, that the earlier milk, you know, the milk that comes out first had a lower fat content than the later milk, and then made a big freaking deal about it, right? Like, and then made a whole thing about it. And it was like, no, that's just the way it is. And like, your body knows what to do. And your body knows how to give your baby the appropriate amount of milk. There's no, there's no mystery here. There's no puzzle. There's no maze to get through, to get to the, you know, the right answer for your baby. Your body's already got that set up, you know, skip the schedules, breastfeed on demand. And like we're done here, right? End of story. Goodbye.

dianne (11:05):

Join us next week. So what she's saying here, one of the things she says here is I'm going to read the worries cause she puts, she puts up some questions that are very, very common that all of you listening may have thought at one point or another. Confusion about fore milk and hind milk has led to all sorts of uncertainty. Are there two distinctly different types of milk? Does the baby need to breastfeed for a specific number of minutes before fore milk suddenly turns to hind milk? Can a baby miss out on hind milk altogether? If you breastfeeds for too short a time? if this happens often, will his weight gain suffer? Sometimes health care providers get into the act telling breastfeeding mothers. They should watch the clock to make sure their baby breastfeeds long enough to get the hind milk with the number of minutes recommended varying by whoever's talking to, right. What do we really need to know about fore milk and hind milk? Is there any reason to worry? So that's, those are like basically the questions I hear all the time. And are you seeing the same thing on social media?

abby (12:10):

Absolutely. Totally.

dianne (12:11):

How long should the baby stay on to get the hind milk?

abby (12:15):

Right. You got to your, my, you know, people like my baby's not gaining enough weight. Oh, are you making sure that your baby's getting, you know, Hind milk? Cause then you get all the whole, you know, it turns into a big chat room with people who don't know what they're talking about, giving each other, all of this advice that they've read in the you know, on blogs and stuff where everybody's concern and anxiety is now being exacerbated by information. That's just not accurate. So yeah. I mean, I definitely, you hear all these things and you hear all these concerns, um, and yeah, you do.

dianne (12:50):

So what she says here is there are not two kinds of milk, which there is not, you have your breast milk and then you have your breast milk. But you have, despite this kind of belief, there is no magic moment when fore milk becomes hind milk. As the baby breastfeeds, the increase in fat content is gradual with the milk becoming fattier and fattier over time as the breast drains more fully. So the more the baby eats and the more the baby's like drinking and draining the fattier, the milk becomes like it just, yeah,

abby (13:25):

This concept always makes me laugh. It's like, you know, make sure your baby's feeding long enough. Like, is your baby feeding long enough on one breast? Like, how do you make a baby breastfeed? Right? Like, this is what I never understood was just like, well, no, you gotta, you know, you gotta make the baby drink longer on this breast. Well, I, I don't have any control over my baby's decision to like continue swallowing milk. Like they just stop when they stop and then fall asleep and then they're done. Like, and that's all you need to worry about, but I just love the thing. It's like, well, what's the alternative here. Forcing them to continue sucking and swallowing. Um, that's impossible.

dianne (14:04):

They're not going to eat if they don't want to eat

abby (14:06):

And they, yeah. And you don't need to worry about it. They're just going to eat and whatever they're getting is perfect.

dianne (14:15):

And now this one here is for all those people that Abby was just talking about, your baby's not getting the high milk, so they're not going to gain any weight. The total milk consumed daily, not the hind milk determines baby's weight gain, whether babies breastfeed often for shorter periods or go for hours between feedings and feed longer, the total daily fat consumption does not actually vary.

abby (14:39):

Yeah. Right. I mean, it's like, it all evens out in the end

dianne (14:43):

And that's just like us, right? Like it's real. It's just like us. It's just like larger humans. You, shouldn't be looking at like every single meal and every single thing it's like kind of like, okay, everything all evens out in the end. And it's the same thing with babies, right? Some days are going to be hungrier some days. You're not going to be some days your baby's going to eat more. They're going to cluster feed more. They're going to be a little hungrier they're growing. Some days are going to be sleepy or they're not going to eat as much. It doesn't mean that they're not going to gain weight. It's all gonna even out in the end.

abby (15:19):

Right? Yeah. It's all. Yeah. You don't need to stress over each feeding. No. And how they got at each feeding and cause it doesn't that doesn't take into account What happened the rest of the day. And at the end of the day, when you measure all the babies, it all evens out.

dianne (15:35):

Yes. So try not to worry

abby (15:37):

I mean, again, how did we survive all this time without knowing about this and not thinking about it? I know we don't need it. It's so cool. Our brains just get in our way, like our bodies know what they're doing and our brains just ruin everything.

dianne (15:51):

Is it really like, we really think too much about this, honestly. Like we really are putting way too much effort into something that has been done naturally for so many years.

abby (16:02):

Well, and I feel like there are entities that benefit from us, freaking out about this and then deciding that our bodies aren't working and then we stop and then we buy a substitute. And then, you know, the system continues, its happy this way. This all fuels our capitalist system of again, I know I am harping on this all the time, but it is true. You can't, you can't make money off of somebody breastfeeding their baby. Like we need to our society and our system that operates that were inside of benefits from us having all this bad information and perpetuates it through their marketing that, you know, your milk is not, they're not allowed to outright say that, but they will find a way to make you doubt your body and your ability to, for your body to nurture your baby. And there are no doubts there, but we have them all in our head.

dianne (17:01):

So should we talk more about that after our Sponsors? Because I have a couple of things to add to that too.

abby (17:06):

Okay, good. Okay. Well, we'll be right back after a word from our sponsors. Today's episode is sponsored by Sheila Darling coaching. The transition to Parenthood can be intense. Feelings of anxiety and depression are actually quite common. Your feelings should not be ignored. You deserve space where you can process this transition and all of the emotional and psychological changes that come with it. You may hear people telling you to just enjoy it, or it all goes by so fast. These statements are dismissive of the changes we go through. When we have a new baby transitioning to a new family member, isn't always a peaceful journey we see on TV. Sheila, Darling coaching can be that professional support person that Dianne and I are always saying, there is no shame getting Sheila Darling is a social worker, a certified hypnotherapist and mindfulness meditation teacher. And could be your start to a more peaceful life. Head to Sheiladarling.com to schedule your consultation today and mentioned this podcast and get 10% off of a coaching package. And today's episode is also brought to you by original sprout. Original sprout carries safe, effective, and pediatrician, tested shampoos, conditioners, styling, and body care products produced and packaged in California USA. The Tahitian, the Tahitian collection includes the Island bliss shampoo, the lush Island conditioner, protective protein mist and Tahitian hair oil are all formulated with oils, such as coconut oil, linseed oil, jojoba oil, mongango oil and argan oil. These oils provide extra moisturizing to control frizz, prevent breakage, and restore dry and brittle strands. Leaving your hair luscious, shiny, and soft. All of our, all of original Sprout's products are Parabon and Phalate free, safe for everyone vegan and cruelty free. They are not just for babies. Check out the entire line@originalsprout.com and use code badass for 25% off of your purchase and the sponsors and their promo codes can be found in our show notes. Under this episode at badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com our show notes also include further information about things we talked about in this episode and at badassbreastfeedingpodcast.com, you'll find our breastfeeding resources, all of our other episodes and information about scheduling your very own one-on-one online lactation consultation with Dianne. And now you had something to add to my rant. Yeah.

dianne (19:45):

One of the things that I was thinking of while you were saying that is that like, we always blame the mother, right? The parent. We always, absolutely. We always blame the feeding parent. Oh, you're, milk's not good enough. Your milk is not fatty enough. Your milk is not. Doesn't have enough calories in it. Oh my God. I still hate that one.

abby (20:03):

My God, the fricking calories,

dianne (20:05):

you know, every time there's something happening, we always blame the parent. And that is not the case. There's nothing wrong with your milk. Your milk is fine,

abby (20:13):

Right? You have no control over it. So you can freak out. We can all freak out and feel guilty and shame and all that stuff. We have zero control over this. Our body knows what we're doing. We can have confidence and pride and empowerment in that. Our body knows exactly what to do. And anyone who says different is a frigging liar.

dianne (20:34):

They're saying here too, research indicates. There's no reason to worry about for milk and high milk to coax a baby to feed longer. As long as baby's breastfeeding effectively. And the mother does not cut feeding short baby will receive about the same amount of milk fat over the course of a day. No matter what the breastfeeding pattern, this is because the baby who breastfeeds more often consumes fore milk higher in fat than the baby who breastfeeds less often. So in the end, it all evens out. The other thing that I wanted to make sure we talked about was the timed feeds. Timed feeds or what screws everything up. Right? Right. Like that's where, like, basically that's what they're saying here. If you're going to be timing your baby, that's just where you're going to run into problems with fore milk and hind milk. So it's when people give you that suggestion of how long has baby staying on? What are they doing? What are they doing while they're on there? Are they breastfeeding frequently enough? Are they on for a certain amount of time? Oh, they shouldn't be on for that long. That's the other one that gets me to, when people say, Oh, well, my baby is breastfeeding. Or, you know, been on the breast for 20 minutes. Oh, they shouldn't be on that long. A baby doesn't need that long. Anything after 10 minutes is just them doing, you know, just some pacifying. How do you know? Yeah. Yeah. Cause they're manipulating you. I mean, w we should not be timing them, get rid of the timing, those stupid apps that are like all every, Oh, well, I gotta, I gotta start my app so it can tell me exactly how long my baby is feeding for down to the second.

abby (22:15):

Don't worry about those. Ridiculous. No, don't no. And don't yeah, you can't. I forgot what I was going to say. I was just going to start ranting again.

dianne (22:30):

The time to feeds are not necessary and they are going to like, if you are cutting your baby off at a certain time and switching them, okay. Only 15 minutes on this breast. And then switching them to the, to the other side, you're not letting them do what they need to do. You're not letting them feed efficiently.

abby (22:48):

Oh, that was what I was going to say. It's so much more than food. Yes. There's so much going on here. There's like, they're not just feeding. So like they're feeding on and off. You might not even know. Sometimes you do know if you get to kind of learn the suckle and the feel, whatever. Maybe not. It doesn't matter because this is the, you know, you've heard all of our other episodes. If you've heard of the episodes, um, about, you know, like, you know, we talk about this a lot in like bed sharing episodes where like you are the only environment that they are acclimated to. They, you can't, you're, they're just going to be there doing what they need to do. And it all goes together. There's no separation between like, Oh, they're just comfort nursing. Or they're, you know, now they're feeding and that it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter. You don't need to dissect it and know what they're doing every second, the one thing is wrong. And one thing is good. Just put them on there.

dianne (23:41):

Nothing's wrong. It's a baby. Like if putting in, if you're, if you're latching them and responding to their needs, it doesn't matter what kind of milk they're getting. You know, they're just, they're, they're getting what they need to get. Whenever there is an issue. Whenever I see a problem with like, you know, fore milk hind milk, the only time I ever really talk about a fore milk hind milk thing is if there is an oversupply issue and then there's way too much milk. And then the baby isn't able to really, you know, like there's just too much milk to deal with. So then we kind of fall into like a fore milk hind milk issue with something like that. But that's the only time I ever really talk about it is when there is an oversupply problem. So if you are just, you know, feeding your baby, there's no issues, there's no problems. They're gaining weight. Like, why are we even thinking about it? The majority of people don't even need to think about this.

abby (24:50):

Right. And, but it also, if you have an oversupply issue and you're working on like trying to get control over that, um, you, you also don't need to worry about for milk and Hind milk. No, I mean, this is something to like, you know, something that contributes to issues with over supply, but you don't need to, like you don't, if you're dealing with an oversupply, then just get some help dealing with the oversupply or deal with the oversupply. Don't dissect the oversupply and think about all the different ways that you can worry about your oversupply. It's not necessary. Just like, you know, okay. There's some issues that, you know, if you have an oversupply, you are very aware of the issues that come with oversupply, you're experiencing them, you know, there's clogged, ducts and mastitis and all the there's a whole long list of things that are problematic with an oversupply. And so if you have an oversupply then like, okay, there's ways that we can deal with that. We can, you know, you know, a lactation consultant, or maybe you just know on your own, like how to deal with that and what works for you. And then just do that. You know, there's all kinds of ways that we can worry about different things. And like, I love that we have like access to all of this information and, you know, people love like, you know, evidence-based, you know, research and, and, you know, we talk about all this stuff, but it's not necessary for like every single person to know every single thing about every single thing. It's not helpful when you're actually just trying to feed your baby, you know, just deal with an issue. And then, you know, focus on that. And then, you know, things will all work out once the oversupply is kind of managed, you know, things will go, things will go smoothly and you'll never even have to, you know, spend your time, you know, freaking out about the fore milk and hind milk.

dianne (26:37):

Yeah. It shouldn't be something that we're even worrying about. Right.

abby (26:40):

Right. It's an interesting discussion. If you're interested in breast milk, if you're interested in kind of the science behind that and whatever, but like applying that to you, just at home, trying to feed your baby, that's not going to those don't mingle well. All it does is cause you stress and it's not necessary that piece of information. And so I don't want to say like, Oh, we should censor what we tell parents. Absolutely not. We should never censor anything. And people should have all the information that they need to be successful, but this is not information that you need to be successful. This is not, this is not, this is not a worry.

dianne (27:16):

No, at least it should not be at all.

abby (27:18):

Right. It shouldn't. Yeah. This shouldn't be on anybody's list of worries.

dianne (27:22):

So there's another, um, I'm going to read another one of her little paragraphs here because I love one of the things she says in this what's most important to a baby's weight gain and growth is the total volume of milk consumed every 24 hours on average babies consume about 750 milliliters of milk per day. And that is about 25 ounces. I Googled that my brain doesn't do that kind of math.

abby (27:47):

Yes get the Google calendar out. Or the calculator I'm like, hold on a second. I could have worked these inches to centimeters and centimeters to inches. I'm like, hold on, hold on.

dianne (27:56):

I know. So that's about 25 ounces per day. People ask me all the time, how much should a baby get per day? So it's about 25 ounces or so as far as growth is concerned, it doesn't matter if a baby takes 30 milliliters every hour or 95 milliliters every three hours, as long as he receives enough milk. Overall, in fact, research has found that whether babies practice the frequent feedings of traditional cultures or the longer intervals common in the West, they take about the same amount of milk each day and get about the same amount of milk fats. So it really like when they looked at all these babies, no matter where they are, they're all doing the same thing,

abby (28:39):

Right. In the cultures where babies really are just on the parent's chest, they're born, they're on the, on the parent's chest feeding. Once the parents starts walking around again, they're tied to their chest in a wrap and they're just there. That's where they live. Always. They just Have access to the breasts at all times. And then over here, we're just like, its too much. And then two or three hours is too much whatever. And you know, and she's saying like at the end of the day, actually it all evens out. Yeah. So you know another reason to just not worry about it.

dianne (29:13):

No, it all is okay. It's all. Okay.

abby (29:17):

They're getting enough fat. And they're getting enough calories for crying out loud. I love it. How, like a baby, it's just like, you need more fat and you need more calories. And then you get to be a grownup and it's like, you have too much fat and you have too many calories. Oh my God, it's such a mind.

dianne (29:32):

I know there was one time when I used to work for the WIC department, they came in like this, um, uh, it was like a task force for obesity.

abby (29:43):

Oh my God.

dianne (29:44):

Came in to talk to us. Right. Oh my God. And they were like, starting, you know, the education pieces based on two year olds. And I was like, why aren't we starting? Like, why aren't we focusing on how we're feeding early? You know, because we know that bottle-feeding is linked to more obesity. We know that. So why aren't we doing that kind of education from the very start? And they're like, we don't do that. We only go from the age two.

abby (30:14):

Yeah. So do you remember? Cause that was Michelle Obama's thing, right? Childhood obesity. That was like her. Cause every first lady has like a thing. Her thing was child obesity, childhood obesity. Right? Yeah. And so I always thought that I always thought that I was like, why isn't there more about this, about breastfeeding and everything that she's talking about and all these initiatives that she started and all this, you know, the whole big thing there, breastfeeding was not a part of the discussion. No, never. And I'm like, come on, man. This is like exactly where it starts. I know also don't get me started on obesity. Cause like whatever, that's a very, a multifaceted issue. It's totally way more than what we're going to talk about in the next couple of minutes at the end of this podcast.

dianne (30:55):

We Really focus on like when it comes to babies and breastfeed, we're like, are they getting what they need? Are they get it? We really don't trust the process. Your body is going to do what they need it to do. But then if your baby doesn't look as chunky as the breastfed baby next door, then you worry about the fat in your milk. You worry about the Hindmilk. You worry about, no, this is the way your baby is supposed to be designed. That's the way.

abby (31:19):

Yeah. And for pumping people too, cause people will pump milk and then they'll have a bunch of like fat will separate to the top. And then people are like, Oh my God, look at all the fat that she has. I don't have that much fat on my pump milk. And then I'm not getting enough fat. How do I get, you know, it doesn't know. Cause that baby needs more fat than your baby. That's just what your body, their body is making milk for that baby. Your baby, your body's making milk for your baby. There's no, you can't compare. There's nothing. It's always right. It's perfect. The milk in that bottle is perfect. The milk in this bottle is perfect. There's no need to think about it. No, there's no such thing as your body making the wrong milk for your baby.

dianne (31:56):

And uh, you know, I was thinking about that whole pumping thing when we first started this episode and I think you had said something or read something. I don't know, but like how would they have even known fore milk and hind milk without pumping? You know what I mean? Like without making it expressed milk, I don't even think it would be. Nobody really thinks about it unless they see their milk expressed.

abby (32:21):

Yeah. That's true. Well, I'm sure people worry about it all across the board because then they're like, Oh my God. Well they said they were supposed to feed for 15 minutes on this breast because they need to get the hind milk. But my baby only feed for eight minutes and I can't get them to go back on. You're not a magician.

dianne (32:34):

So they're just not getting the hind milk?Yes they are.

abby (32:37):

You can't like you, you, yeah, your baby stopped. Cause they're done and your body knows it and your baby knows it. Get over it.

dianne (32:44):

I always try to tell people it is more about what the baby's doing when they're there and not about the amount of time that they're there, but you can't worry about the amount of time that they're there. It's what they're doing. And I even consider that like for very, very newborns and sometimes, you know how newborns will just like sit and suckle and doze and you know, like that's how those things. So I'm like, well we want, you know, we want to look at the amount of time that they're actually feeding. Like we don't, we don't want you to keep a baby on the breast for your or on your chest for 15 minutes. If they're not feeding, you know, like we want them to actually be feeding. So we want to stimulate them and wake them and you know, keep them, you know, kind of going so that they're feeding. But we, you know, it's not about the time. It's what they're doing while they're there. You know, they need, they need the suckle time. They need the cuddle time. They need the feed time. They need all of that. They don't just need to, okay. You were out there for five minutes. Did you get what you need to do? you know, it's not, it's not about that. It's about like the whole thing. Does that make sense?

abby (33:56):

Yeah. I mean, you can't dissect everything that's going on there. It's a whole thing where there's a million things going on all at once And it's all Works perfectly. You don't need to worry about it

dianne (34:06):

No. So your milk is perfect. Don't worry about what's there. Right?

abby (34:12):

You don't need to worry about it. If somebody says like, Oh, fore milk hind milk to you just be like, no, no, no. Don't, don't put that in my head

dianne (34:17):

No, just squash it. Yep. Squash it. And you're good.

abby (34:22):

Another myth squashed.

dianne (34:25):

You're welcome.

abby (34:27):

Thanks for listening. Thank you.

Speaker 1 (34:40):

[inaudible].