Zurich Tours With a Twist: Hidden Hikes, Swiss Chocolate & the Circular Economy

What if exploring Zurich could make you healthier and help the planet?

In this episode, I’m joined by two inspiring women who are changing how we experience Switzerland’s biggest city without the crowds or the big carbon footprint.

First, meet Giada Rocca, a former lawyer and yoga teacher who now leads energizing urban hikes through Zurich. Her company, Zurich Urban Hikes, blends movement, nature, and history into one unforgettable experience, perfect for those curious about hiking in Switzerland but short on time.

Also meet Diana Fischer, a tourism professional with a master’s degree in innovation and management. She’s the founder of Detours Zurich, which runs Zurich walking tours with a difference: each one is rooted in social impact tourism, from ethical chocolate tastings to upcycling workshops and circular economy initiatives.

You’ll discover what an urban hike is and why it’s a unique way to experience Zurich. We explore how Zurich tours like Zurich Urban Hikes and Detours Zurich support the local community and combat over-tourism through ethical tourism and social impact tourism. 

You’ll learn practical tips for responsible travel, how to embrace slow travel, and how Zurich walking tours can connect you with local changemakers, hidden spots, and even wild food. 

Whether you’re planning to go hiking in Switzerland, or just want to see Zurich in a more authentic way, this episode will open your eyes to Zurich’s sustainable, soulful side.

So lace up your walking shoes and tune in! Zurich is ready to surprise you.

Safe travels,

Carolyn

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Transcript

Carolyn Schönafinger: Welcome to the Holidays to Switzerland podcast. If you're planning a trip to Switzerland, this is the podcast for you. I'm your host, Carolyn Schönafinger, the founder of holidaystoswitzerland.com. In each episode, my expert guests and I share practical tips to help you plan your dream trip to Switzerland.

You'll get helpful advice about traveling around Switzerland and hear about the most popular destinations, as well as some hidden gems. We'll introduce you to plenty of wonderful experiences that you can enjoy as part of your Swiss vacation. Each episode is packed with expert tips, itinerary ideas, and inspiration to help make your Swiss vacation planning easy.

So let's dive in.

Gruezi, hi there. Welcome to Episode 136 of the Holidays to Switzerland podcast.

What are some of the must-do activities on your Switzerland itinerary? When you're visiting the cities, you're probably planning to wander around the Old Town, and there's probably some chocolate tasting amongst your activities too. If you're heading to Zurich, you can do both of those things, but in a unique, meaningful, and sustainable way.

Today, I'm chatting with two inspiring women who are changing the way travelers experience Switzerland's largest city. You'll hear how Giada Rocca brought her love of hiking to Zurich's streets, designing city-based urban hikes that combine exercise, culture, and hidden gems all without leaving the city limits. Meanwhile, Diana Fischer shares the story behind Detour Zurich, her innovative tour company that's putting social impact and sustainability at the heart of its tours.

Diana shares how her walking tours connect visitors with locals, focus on important global topics like food waste and ethical fashion, and include hands-on workshops such as making your own bean-to-bar chocolate or upcycling with a Zurich designer.

If you'd like to explore Zurich beyond the regular tourist trail and in a sustainable and meaningful way, you're going to love my conversation with Giada and Diana.

Good morning, ladies. Thank you so much for coming onto the podcast to share with our listeners all about your amazing tours that you both operate in Zurich. Let's start with Giada. Would you like to introduce yourself and give us a bit of a background about where you're from and what you do?

Giada Rocca: Good morning, Carolyn, and thank you for having me. I've been listening to your podcast forever, so I'm very honored to be here as a guest.

My name is Giada. I'm originally from Rome, Italy. However, I lived mostly abroad, as my father was a diplomat. I've had my share of moving countries, moving schools, changing jobs, learning new languages and endlessly adapting to new cultures and circumstances. So I know a little bit about that.

I moved to Switzerland six years ago, and professionally, I used to be a lawyer, so something very different from what I do now. I spent a great amount of time being a lawyer. Then my children were born. I became a mother. I took on a new role as a mother. This pushed me more and more into a different direction.

I became a yoga teacher. I started guiding people, hosting, and eventually moving to Switzerland. I combined the yoga with nature, and I started doing yoga and hiking retreats. And this is like a marriage made in heaven. There's no better nature, no more beautiful nature than in Switzerland, in my opinion.

I realized how much I enjoyed the hosting and the guiding part of it, so I eventually became a tour guide. And I love, just love, to be a hostess and show people around Switzerland. So that's been my path. Very colorful.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Yeah, fantastic. So definitely coming from the corporate side of things to a more nature-based profession. So yeah, what a fantastic transformation. Thank you for sharing that.

Diana, how do I pronounce your name? Perhaps you could put me straight there and tell me a bit about your background.

Diana Fischer: Hi Carolyn, and thank you so much for having me on the podcast, and hello to all the listeners. Correct, my name is Diana, and I was born and raised in Slovakia. My entire professional career actually has been in tourism, so that led me to travel and move around quite a bit.

I studied and lived in England. Then I moved to Austria, where I finished my master's in innovation and management in tourism. Then I moved to the Czech Republic, to Prague, and finally, eight years ago, I settled here in Zurich, which I made my home.

Eight years ago I arrived here, and in 2021, I started my own tour company called Detour Zurich. What we do, we offer social impact walking tours that give back to the community. It's always been a pleasure to be in the tourism sector, either in academia or in practice, and I am very excited to bring these experiences alive to visitors and locals alike.

Carolyn Schönafinger: What actually inspired you to start Detour Zurich, and how did the idea for combining tourism and social impact come about?

Diana Fischer: Yeah, so I always had aspirations to start my own business, and I was always drawn to the experience. But a true catalyst for me was actually the pandemic, because it became very obvious how interdependent the whole tourism industry is and how much the local communities were affected by the pandemic.

It all became obvious to me, and I became convinced that we need to change the way we operate businesses in tourism, as we often have a tendency to focus on creating profit and raising the volumes of the guests. I believe that we need to shift the focus more to creating value, or to add value, to the local communities through tourism.

So I wanted to find an alternative to the traditional model of sightseeing, and bring a product that would already in its design benefit the local communities and make a positive impact in the local communities. That's how the whole idea of combining tourism and social impact came about.

The year 2021 was, of course, still the year when the pandemic was still there. So it was definitely an interesting time to start a business in tourism during this time. But I think it also has proven that this model is different, and that it brings value not only to visitors but also to locals.

That was the whole concept, how I started to think about this, and how I designed a product that would also be suitable as much for travelers as for the locals here in Zurich.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Yeah, absolutely fantastic. All right. Well, I look forward to hearing a bit more about the tours that you operate shortly.

But what about you, Giada? How did your idea for Zurich Urban Hikes come about, and what actually is an urban hike? Perhaps you'd like to tell us that as well.

Giada Rocca: Yeah, what is it? What inspired me is actually my love of hiking.

I said it before, I love this country. I love the natural beauty that it has to offer. And also it's a small country, so it's actually feasible to walk around a lot. It's not these big cities where, you know, it's just a nightmare. Cities are small. Even Zurich is a large, small city. At the end of the day, by international standards, it's quite a village, only 400,000 people living there.

So my love of hiking, my love of moving, my love of being outdoors, exploring, I tried to think of a way of combining all those cool aspects of hiking: the adventure, the planning aspect, the physical activity, getting that natural high and feeling like you've been able to accomplish something really cool with your day.

I tried to think of how could I compress all this into an experience that you could enjoy just outside your front door with a short amount of time.

The biggest variables whenever you think of hiking are the weather. In Switzerland, the weather is not just a variable for hiking, it's the main subject of conversation at any given day. The weather can really alter your plans, and it's the biggest factor when deciding to go hiking. It can also be dangerous if the weather is not good, or you have to change your day, or you have to change your route, etc.

The second factor is time. It's time-consuming. You have to travel to whichever mountain destination area you want to go hiking, and then you have the actual hiking time. So weather and time really limit your options.

What inspired me was really to cut down the difficult factors, keep the cool ones, and turn it into an experience which could really be tailor-made in the city. By removing the weather and time, now we can hike in the city. We can hike whenever we want, and for as long as we want. We're in the city, it's safe. You can always bail out. You can always find shelter if it starts raining or pouring. You're not in the middle of a mountain somewhere.

And so it's a safe, approachable, and manageable way of going hiking. So an urban hike, yeah, that’s what it is. I mean, it's exactly what it sounds like. It's a city adventure on foot.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Okay, I was going to ask you, what makes your urban hikes unique? I think you've kind of told us that there. But what parts of the city do the participants get to explore? Is it all the main, you know, the famous or well-known sites? Or do you take them off the beaten path a bit?

Giada Rocca: As I said, it's a small city, so we definitely love the Old Town. All our tours will definitely touch on the Old Town. I always think of Zurich as this city with a village at its heart. A village is the Old Town. It's like taking a step through time. You're walking through these little cobblestone streets.

I love to tell people, just get lost in the Old Town. Just no map, no iPhone, nothing. It's safe. You can't get too lost, and even if you do, you'll find your way. There are these guild houses and the little goldsmith that still makes the gold by hand, or the bookbinder, all these local artisans. It really transports you to another time.

So the Old Town is definitely something that is included in all our hikes. It's full of surprises, adventures. We touch on all the nice viewpoints. So we'll hike up to the Lindenhof, and we'll see the Grossmünster, but maybe not from the most obvious photo point that is on all the Instagram feeds. We'll maybe find it from a little bit of a tucked-away alley or a corner where it's really framed in between two buildings. That's what makes it special. It's unexpected. It's offbeat. It's away from the main streets.

And the most important thing is that you work for all your viewpoints, so you get there with your own legs, and it's that much sweeter.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Absolutely, you're getting your exercise while you're discovering all these amazing sites.

Diana, how do your tours differ from traditional city tours, and what can participants on your tours expect?

Diana Fischer: Yes, a very good question. So it's called a Detour because it's not really about sightseeing as it is about the topics that we want to raise awareness about. These topics are societal challenges that we believe need attention in this world, and we need to talk about them.

For example, we touch on the topics of food waste, fast fashion, or overconsumption, and we basically show participants the local solutions to these global challenges.

One big part is that our guests get to know the local changemakers, as we like to call them. They get to meet members of the local community, learn about their projects, and have a chance to look behind the scenes.

Another difference is that the tours are, on average, longer than your traditional walking tour. We allow enough time, on average, each tour is about three hours, to actually create these meaningful conversations and exchanges.

What is also different compared to other traditional sightseeing tours is that it's always active and interactive. There is always either a workshop, an activity, or an engagement with the local project so that people can really get hands-on, get active, and try these topics in practice.

So this would be, I guess, the main difference, yeah.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Okay, so obviously, sustainability and social impact are very important to you and are core parts of your tours. So how do you and Detour collaborate with the local community? What are some of the ways? Or can you share some examples of how people on the tour can really get involved with those local communities?

Diana Fischer: Yes, so basically, each tour is designed together with the local community, together with our partners. So it's never going to be just us or our guides talking to you and guiding you, but you can see us more as a facilitator or connector between the guest and the community.

Maybe I will bring an example of our ethical chocolate tour. Chocolate is, of course, a big topic in Switzerland, and for instance, with this product, we collaborate with three partners.

First is a local NGO called Good Chocolate Hub. They advocate for sustainable practices when it comes to cocoa production and chocolate consumption in Switzerland. They do the first part of the tour, which is a workshop where we educate our guests on the history of chocolate in Switzerland. How come Switzerland is so famous for chocolate when there are no cacao trees growing here?

We talk about the ethics, we talk about the value chain. Then the second partner involved in this tour is a bean-to-bar manufacturer. So after we cover the theory, the guests can see in practice how sustainability can be brought to life and how the chocolate makers themselves take their view on this. The tour participants can observe each step of production.

The third partner is a fair-trade store that gives us space to hold this workshop. So basically, it's never just us, we always connect different parts.

When we talk about social impact or giving back to the community and collaborating with our partners, we also share the profit from each tour with our partners. That’s a direct contribution, financially. You can also see this on our website, we came up with so-called Impact Wheels where you, as a tour participant, can look at where your money goes exactly, who we support, and how the money is distributed from your tour ticket.

But I think, for me, even more important than the financial part is the giving-back aspect, that with each tour we aim to inspire change. For example, with this ethical chocolate tour, it’s a great example, we often have guests come back to us after the tour and say they've changed their perspective and consumer behavior when it comes to chocolate.

After they learn how much work is behind it, what the value chain looks like, when they learn about the cocoa farmers and the whole journey from raw beans to a chocolate bar, they start looking for more sustainable options.

So I think that’s a wonderful way to bring all these topics together, to inspire change and support small local chocolate makers and the work of the NGO. And basically, each tour has a similar concept depending on the topic we focus on. In this case, I mentioned the ethical chocolate tour.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Yeah, wonderful. So it sounds like both of you really support those local artisans, in your instance, the ethical chocolate makers you've just mentioned, and Giada is taking her guests to goldsmiths and bookbinders that are obviously very, very local. So that's fantastic. Giada, are there other ways that your urban hikes incorporate sustainable practices?

Giada Rocca: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I love everything Diana said, and my urban hikes are just by definition sustainable. I mean, we use the power of our legs, so they're 100% car-free and 100% powered by human energy.

Also, for example, that's something very important, you know, sustainability. So we always encourage guests to bring their own water bottles, and we introduce them to the fantastic world of public drinking water fountains in Zurich. I'm from Rome, and we have a lot of water in Rome, but not as many as in Zurich. So there's one around every corner.

People start to count them, and then they get obsessed, and they're like, "I'm going to go and find some more on my time." People really enjoy drinking this pure Alpine water, which is incredibly fresh, and free, by the way. Things for free in Zurich! So it's a really nice way to be sustainable. Bring your water bottle, or maybe buy one while you're in Zurich, and learn about ditching the plastic bottles.

Another thing, for example, we pass by some sustainable shops. You might have heard of this one: the S-Bar in the Old Town in Zurich. We might pass by there. It's a shop that sells second-day food, like second-day bread. It's called yesterday's fresh stuff today. You're eating fresh things from yesterday, which are still delicious but maybe at half price instead of throwing things away. It's about conserving food and avoiding food waste.

We might just pass through there, and it's a local shop. If people want to grab a pastry for a reasonable price, or come back later, that's on the way, and it definitely focuses on sustainability.

But one more thing, which I think is really important, is the mindset. Because when you walk, essentially you're slowing down. It's all part of this slow travel experience. You're not zipping around in a car or in a bus, you’re actually taking your time. And as you walk and slow down, you start to connect more with your surroundings.

You notice things, and all of a sudden it's like, "Oh, what about that?" and "Oh, I'm going to come back here later and look at that," or "Can we pop into this shop?" So you start to have a connection with the place. It's not so impersonal anymore. It's about slowing down and maybe seeing less, but seeing it better, and actually bringing your interest to learning about the local shops or the local culture.

So I think walking is at the base of all these sustainable practices. For me, it's a lifestyle. It's really about making these small choices every day. When people come on a hiking tour and they realize, "I can do this in my own city, not just because I'm here in Zurich on vacation, but I can actually walk at home. I can walk to the groceries, I can walk to the post office." You can incorporate little walks everywhere, ditch your car, make your life just a little bit more sustainable, and get a bit of a workout in there, a bit of a step count.

That's a win-win for sustainability. More walking, less plastic, and little choices every day that make a bigger impact.

Carolyn Schönafinger: I'm sure there are some hidden secrets in all our cities that we're not aware of. If we just set off with the aim to find something new, I'm sure we would.

Giada Rocca: So please stay curious.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Yeah, exactly. So tell us a bit more about the different tours that you offer. Do people need to be regular walkers, or is it okay for someone who perhaps doesn’t walk too often for leisure? What do we need to know about the tours that you offer?

Giada Rocca: I mean, we have three different tours. They're mainly based on length and duration. I always say, you don't need to be an athlete, you don't need to be a runner or anything like this, but you do have to have a base. You have to be used to walking a little bit every day.

Of course, you're on vacation, so people tend to get a little bit outside of their comfort zone when they're on vacation. You don’t have the stress, you don’t have the time constraints, and maybe you’re willing to go a bit outside of your comfort zone.

It is not a mountain hiking trail, so there are no mountain risks or anything like that associated with walking. We're just walking in the streets, but we’re taking as many stairs as we can find.

If you're a regular gym exerciser, if you walk around a bit, we have a short tour which I like to call The Quickie. Exactly what it sounds like, it's a quickie. So it's just one and a half hours and four and a half kilometers. That’s just under three miles. It’s the shortest one, and it’s all in the city, in the Old Town.

If you're short on time and you just want to get a quick overview of the city, that's your go-to, the Quickie.

Then we have The Classic, which is my favorite one. It gives you a better, bigger, bird’s-eye view of the city. It’s not just the Old Town; it’s also the whole university quarter, which is fascinating. I mean, this is where Albert Einstein used to walk around in the early 1900s. Just that by itself! And there are some of the most beautiful views of the city. I love this area, and it's a steep climb to get there, we get those steps in!

This one’s about three to three and a half hours, depending on the pace of the group, and about nine kilometers, so just under six miles.

Then we have one which is the longest one. It’s called The Distance. This one actually is a four and a half to five-hour affair. Definitely here I would recommend it for those more fitness enthusiasts. It’s also at a faster pace. Once we get out of the town, so we’ll do the city, and then we’ll go out along the lake. This part will be more fast-paced and really just about seeing the scenery and getting that different layer of the lake and the mountains and the trees.

This is a full half-day hiking adventure. If you walk and exercise regularly, any one of these tours is fine for you, and you will be happy. You will be sore afterwards, in that really nice, yummy way, where your body is tired, your eyes are full of impressions, and your heart is full from a wonderful day out. That’s the idea. Just like in any mountain hike.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Excellent. So do you offer the tours all year round, or is it only over the summer months?

Giada Rocca: They're offered all year round. Of course, we're in the city, so again, as I said, you can always bail out. I mean, if it's raining too hard or if there's snow or anything happening, you can just take a tram and go back to your hotel. You're not stranded somewhere in a mountain.

There's always shelter. We can always take cover in a coffee shop and support some local businesses. So that's always an option. The tours are offered year-round. Of course, they're adapted. If I get a booking and it's really bad weather, I'm open to adapting the tour, adapting the route, or rescheduling for another day. But doing the tours in the city really allows us to do them all year round.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Okay, excellent. All right, so Diana, let's hear about all the different offerings that Detour has. You've already mentioned that ethical chocolate tour. What else do you have available?

Diana Fischer: Ethical chocolate is definitely one of the best sellers, because, of course, it's chocolate! People get to taste a lot of it. As I already mentioned, it includes a workshop and a visit to a bean-to-bar chocolate manufactory. It's about three hours long, and we go around by public transportation.

The next tour is called Circular City. This one is themed around the circular economy. It's for anyone interested in circular design. We visit different small label ateliers, ethical brands, secondhand markets, material markets, or community spaces. Our guests get to know the people behind all these projects.

The highlight of the tour is always an upcycling workshop that we do at a small design atelier together with a local artist. Tour participants learn how to turn discarded materials into new items. So again, we bring the theory into practice, and guests can create their own little takeaway souvenir from the tour.

Then we have, my favorite tour, it's called Conscious Foodies, because I’m a big foodie and I love food. This is really an unconventional food experience, or how I like to call it: a rebellion against traditional food tours. We shift from passive city dwellers to active urban foragers.

This tour is themed around urban foraging. You basically learn what grows around you here in Zurich’s urban landscape. We collect herbs, wild plants, and roots. We learn about nature's magic, and then we cook with what we find, which could be a cooking session either outdoors or indoors, depending on the weather.

It’s a wonderful tour that connects the community through food and nature. Because our experiences are usually booked by locals and visitors alike, it's always a nice mix of people. People enjoy meeting each other and making new friends. I think food connects people in the best way.

Finally, we have our Bean-to-Bar Chocolate Course. This is a more hands-on experience that also revolves around chocolate. On this tour, we go a bit further away from Zurich. We take a local scenic train ride through beautiful Swiss countryside, about 45 minutes, and arrive at a small, local bean-to-bar manufacturer.

There, we are welcomed by the founders. Guests learn about the history of chocolate, observe each step of production, and the best part, they get to make their own chocolate. Everyone makes six bars of chocolate. We also do a chocolate quiz, and people get to try not only chocolate but also different parts of the cocoa fruit.

We offer cocoa juice and make cocoa tea, so guests really get to know what you can do with cacao beans, beyond just chocolate. These are our offerings right now. We mostly offer our tours from March until December.

The only exception is the Conscious Foodies tour when we forage, because foraging is best from April through September. And of course, it's very seasonal, because different plants and herbs grow at different times. So that’s the only one that’s more limited due to seasonality. But the rest of the tours we do all year round.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Ah, excellent. And what sort of group size is typical for your tours? Do you have a maximum number that you can take?

Diana Fischer: Yes, so in order to keep the experiences as intimate as possible, we usually don't take more than 15 guests. So 15 guests would be the group size, which allows good space and room for exchanges between people.

Because I think if you have large groups, then this interaction disappears, and the guests don’t have the same experience. So maximum 15 guests would be on our tours.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Sure. And do you yourself get involved with guiding on any of the tours?

Diana Fischer: Yes, so you can definitely meet me, especially on the chocolate tour. We love chocolate! But we are also a very small team. There are seven of us altogether, so there’s a high chance you’ll see me on one of the tours.

As I mentioned, for the foraging, we have a local forager who guides that experience, but someone from the Detour team is always present. So yes, if you come to Zurich and book a Detour, there’s a very high chance you’ll see me.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Wonderful. Well, that would be excellent. What sort of feedback have you received from travelers?

I mean, you mentioned earlier that some of your clients start to look at their chocolate purchases and chocolate habits a bit differently after doing the Ethical Chocolate Tour. Have you received other feedback from clients that made you think, "Wow, this makes it all worthwhile, this is what I hoped would happen when I first thought of starting Detour Zurich"?

Diana Fischer: I think that for me, the most exciting part is definitely to see the change, or to see that we inspire change.

For example, like you already mentioned, in their consumer behavior. People always appreciate, and we always get positive feedback about, the fact that they really engage with the local community.

Let me take our Circular City tour. People are inspired to actually incorporate the concept of circularity into their everyday lives. They get to know the places where they can go to repair, shop secondhand, etc. There’s a bigger understanding of what Zurich has to offer on these topics.

People always appreciate the hands-on aspects of the tours. There is always an activity. It’s never passive. You are never just a listener while we explain circular economy. It’s really hands-on. You get to know the members of the local community.

People also love the exclusive, behind-the-scenes look. For instance, when we go to a chocolate manufacturer, it’s not like you’re there with 40 other travelers. It’s just your group. There is time and space dedicated to learning and exchanging and really getting to know the local people.

And what I always love to see, and what makes me think, "Okay, it works, it makes sense", is that people follow up. We once had a very sweet family from Canada who, two or three weeks after the tour, started making their own chocolate at home.

They simply bought cocoa beans because they learned they could do the first steps at home, roasting and grinding the beans. And they started making chocolate!

So what drives me forward is knowing that we can inspire that kind of positive change, and that we can help these local projects by bringing people there, by making our guests and locals more aware of these initiatives. That way, we can support life in Zurich. It's a wonderful way to bring all this together in the tourism field.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Yeah, definitely. And yeah, it must make your heart swell when you know that you've been able to sort of push them along in the way that they've changed and started thinking about things differently, which is fantastic. Giada, I'm sure that on your tours, well, I didn’t actually ask you the maximum number of people that you can take on your tours, but I guess because of the style of tour that you're doing, you actually get a real connection with some of your guests. What are some of the memorable experiences, or some of the most heartening feedback that you've had from some of your guests?

Giada Rocca: Yeah, sure. I mean, as far as group size, we also have a maximum of 10, really, because more than that and the experience becomes a bit difficult. We want to keep the group as small as possible. Also, zipping around, as far as the pace of the group, we need to be a little bit on the same pace and try to adjust. Whenever you're in a group, you have to adjust to your slowest members. So we don't want to have huge groups. We keep it tight.

As far as experiences, I mean, similar to what Diana just said, it makes me smile when I get pictures from my guests who send me videos of the stairs they just ran up, or they tell me, "I didn’t take the elevator!" They send a little picture, and it's like, yay! It makes you smile. It means the seed was planted. It’s something they took home with them. And it’s a little choice.

Again, it’s like a small choice, whether you recycle. Something that is also very visible here in Switzerland is how much people are invested in the whole community. We recycle, we recycle everything. And you see this even on the tour, like, "Oh, now I can throw this away, and I don’t just throw it in a bin. I have to choose: is it metal, plastic, paper, this or that?" There’s a whole choice that you have to make right there. And that’s the reason why, because it gets recycled.

So you learn a little bit about this culture, and maybe when you go home, you make that extra effort to recycle in a conscious way so it actually makes it into the circle.

Highlights of every tour have to be the picnics when we reach our highest point. I always, well, I shouldn’t say this, because it’s a bit of a surprise, but I always whip out, like on any good hike, some cheese and bread.

They're all local cheeses from the Zurich region. We have the Zurich Grand Cru or cheeses made here in the Oberland around Zurich, and some local soap, maybe local bread from the region. It’s always a surprise, because it’s always after our highest point, maybe two-thirds into the tour. We all have a little picnic. We share some food.

As Diana said, nothing brings people together like food. It’s also a way of showcasing a little bit of what is famous, cheese, chocolate, and bread of Switzerland, and having this community moment to just exchange impressions.

Also remember, we’re walking, we’re hiking, so we’re not stopping. The tour is not a history tour. There are no long explanations about anything. The commentary is just sprinkled in along the way. It’s more about fun facts or trivia about Zurich.

So there’s also this nice moment where we stop, and we all sort of exchange our impressions about what’s going on and how we’re doing. And yeah, it’s always a nice highlight moment to hear from everybody else.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Yeah, great. And as you both said, food does bring people together, and it also makes you sort of stop and slow down and think about what you're doing. And that's the whole idea behind both your tour companies. So Giada, before we finish, what tips would you give to travelers who want to experience Zurich beyond the typical tourist trail? Obviously they need to do one of your tours. But what other tips do you have for people?

Giada Rocca: Yeah, I mean, after you've come on an urban hike and you have more time in Zurich, it's your second time, just remember, walk, don't rush. Okay? The magic is in the small streets. It's not on the main streets. Take your time. Explore. Pop into the local stores. Have a look. Don't be shy. Get a little lost, like I said before. Ditch the map for a second and just use your, I don't know, intuition. Shall I turn left or right? And see where that takes you.

Remember that Zurich is safe. It's very safe. You see little kids walking to school, four or five-year-old kids. So they are safe. You're safe too. Nothing's going to happen to you. Live a little bit on the wild side. Maybe ride on a Zurich tram. This is like the old-world feeling of riding around in the city with these above-ground trains. They're called trams, and they're basically part of the city's identity.

You can get on a tram and just sit there. You can see what kind of people get on and off. You get a little glimpse into local life. You'll see mothers, people going to work, whole school classrooms full of little kids going on a field trip. Everybody rides the public transportation system. In fact, many people don’t even own a car. They walk or they ride the trams, which are all, by the way, powered by sustainable hydroelectric power. So that’s already also in the mix.

And then just, you know, maybe skip the bigger cafeterias or restaurants. Especially now that the weather is getting nicer, spring and summer, a lot of Zurich locals like to just grab something for lunch and eat outside.

So maybe grab a bratwurst, the typical sausage, or grab yourself a coffee and a Gipfeli, which is our version of a croissant, and go eat outside. Go and hang out at the lake. Go to a bench. Put your feet in the water. Do what the locals do. Slow down and really enjoy the city like a local. Those are my tips.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Diana, over-tourism is a term that we're hearing more and more lately, and it applies to countries all around the world. So for anyone listening who is planning their trip to Switzerland, what tips can you give them? What should they think about when they’re planning their trip so they can limit their negative impact, but not miss out on having a fantastic experience?

Diana Fischer: I have one simple tip for your listeners: go slow and small.

Slow, meaning if you can stay in a destination longer, don’t just visit a place to tick it off your bucket list. Try to immerse yourself in the community. Meet the local people, talk to them, maybe attend local events or sport matches. Try staying in a small village near the city you originally planned to visit. That gives you the chance to travel slowly.

I believe, just like Giada said, we should take advantage of Switzerland’s excellent public transportation and take our time to immerse ourselves in the places we choose to visit.

Travel small means supporting small, local businesses. For example, when you’re booking your hotel, don’t go for a resort or a chain hotel. Try to find a small, family-run hotel, or even consider a homestay. Think about where your money goes. When you book an experience, does the money stay in the local community or go to someone far removed from the destination?

If you can, book directly. Many travelers aren’t aware that when you book through platforms like Viator or GetYourGuide, suppliers are often charged high commissions. So they don’t earn as much as they would if you booked directly through their website.

There’s pressure on consumers, on us as travelers, to invest more time in researching our trips. Ask your hotel or tour company what they’re doing in terms of sustainability and community support. You’ll usually get a good sense of their transparency by what they share on their website.

Of course, there’s also a lot of greenwashing out there. So it really is up to us to spend a little more time researching before we travel. Then while we’re at the destination, we should focus on those small local businesses that should benefit from tourism.

Yes, slow and small. That would be my advice.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Yeah. Well, that's excellent advice. And I think too, if we think about that, in 10 years, in 20 years, do we want those small, family-run hotels still to be operating? Do we want the small tour operators like yourselves still to be able to operate?

Booking direct is the best way to go about that, because as you said, booking through those big platforms, the person that's providing the tour or accommodation gets so much of the cost taken out, they don't get it. So yeah, it's not sustainable for them. It's not a sustainable way to operate.

Well, thank you so much. I will include links to both your websites in the show notes for this episode. But Diana, perhaps first, if you'd like to tell us where people can find you.

Diana Fischer: Yes, so I would love to invite all of your listeners to check our website: https://www.detours-zurich.ch.

If you’d like to follow us on social media, we’re on Instagram, Facebook, and I’m also happy to connect on LinkedIn. So yeah, all the traditional channels.

And yes, I’d like to also say thank you, Carolyn, for having us. And I’d like to extend greetings to all of your listeners. It was lovely to hear more from Giada and her urban hikes. Thank you very much.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Oh, my pleasure. Giada, where can people get information about your Zurich Urban Hikes?

Giada Rocca: Yes, certainly. On the website: https://www.zurichurbanhikes.com. Also Instagram: @zurich.urban.hikes, and LinkedIn, just like Diana mentioned, all the traditional outlets.

If you go on the website, you can send an inquiry directly. You have WhatsApp, you can contact me directly. It's mainly me doing the hikes. I have some colleagues sometimes, but it's mainly me. So the chances are you’ll go hiking with me.

It would be my pleasure to show you around. Just bring your good tread shoes, please, no flip-flops!

And of course, I want to say again, thank you for inviting me on the show. I'm really happy, as I said, I've been a listener for a long time, to have been here today with Diana. I think we have very complementary types of approach to slow travel, and yeah, I love it.

Thank you very much, Carolyn, for hosting us. And thank you to all the listeners. We do hope to see you in Zurich, either hiking or going on a sustainable chocolate tour. Just contact us.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Well yeah, it's been great chatting to you both. And I'm so happy that I was able to connect you two. And yeah, before we started recording, you realized that you both kind of live in the same neighborhood! So that’s wonderful.

I really hope that we’ve made everyone listening a bit more curious about your tours and how they can have a better impact when they travel, especially when visiting Zurich.

So thank you again, ladies.

Diana Fischer: Thank you so much.

Giada Rocca: Thank you.

Carolyn Schönafinger: Wow. What an inspiring and thought-provoking conversation that was. If you're looking to experience Zurich beyond the usual tourist trail, I hope today's episode has inspired you to slow down, explore on foot, and even connect with the local community.

Will you discover hidden gems on an urban hike with Giada, or perhaps make a positive impact by participating in one of the Detour Zurich tours? Maybe you'll do both!

They are both fantastic options for anyone who wants a more meaningful, sustainable, and memorable activity in Zurich.

You can learn more about today’s guests and get links to both the Zurich Urban Hikes and Detour Zurich websites in the show notes for this episode. I’ll also include a link to my free guide, “21 Useful Things to Know Before You Visit Switzerland,” in the show notes too.

Those show notes are available at holidaystoswitzerland.com/podcast.

Thank you so much for joining me today. I really hope you enjoyed this episode. If you did, please share it with your family, friends, and colleagues who are planning their own trip to Switzerland. And if you have a moment, I’d be super grateful if you could leave a five-star rating or review wherever you listen to podcasts.

Thank you so much again for tuning in. Until next time, tschüss!