1 00:00:00,119 --> 00:00:01,604 Speaker 1: You know, the greatest advice I always give HR 2 00:00:01,604 --> 00:00:04,532 people is learn the business of the business. 3 00:00:04,532 --> 00:00:06,403 You have to speak their language. 4 00:00:06,403 --> 00:00:08,089 You have to understand that. 5 00:00:08,089 --> 00:00:10,146 You have to worry about the people but you have to worry 6 00:00:10,185 --> 00:00:11,211 about the business right. 7 00:00:11,211 --> 00:00:13,884 Instead of flooding an organizational layoff, perhaps 8 00:00:13,945 --> 00:00:17,097 you should be triggering discussions on a layoff because 9 00:00:17,138 --> 00:00:18,442 you understand the business right. 10 00:00:18,442 --> 00:00:21,690 So you know, really understand the business and learn to say 11 00:00:21,751 --> 00:00:24,527 yes, not get your influence by saying no. 12 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:32,363 Speaker 2: This is the Rebel HR Podcast, the podcast where we 13 00:00:32,384 --> 00:00:33,750 talk to HR innovators about all things people, leadership. 14 00:00:33,750 --> 00:00:35,375 If you're looking for places to find about new ways to think 15 00:00:35,396 --> 00:00:38,143 about the world of work, this is the podcast for you. 16 00:00:38,143 --> 00:00:41,430 Please subscribe to your favorite podcast listening 17 00:00:41,470 --> 00:00:43,624 platform today and leave us a review. 18 00:00:43,624 --> 00:00:48,923 Rebel on HR Rebels Welcome back . 19 00:00:48,923 --> 00:00:49,905 Rebel HR listeners. 20 00:00:49,905 --> 00:00:52,332 Extremely excited for the conversation today. 21 00:00:52,332 --> 00:00:55,487 I had to hit record because we were just having a wonderful 22 00:00:55,527 --> 00:00:59,524 conversation about everything from working back at the deli 23 00:00:59,545 --> 00:01:02,813 shop to weddings and wearing ties, and so with us today is 24 00:01:02,853 --> 00:01:03,604 Bob Kelleher. 25 00:01:03,604 --> 00:01:06,862 Bob is an author, speaker and founder of the Employee 26 00:01:06,903 --> 00:01:07,805 Engagement Group. 27 00:01:07,805 --> 00:01:11,751 He also has founded the AEC HR Summit. 28 00:01:11,751 --> 00:01:14,468 He is a thought leader on employee engagement and 29 00:01:14,528 --> 00:01:14,992 leadership. 30 00:01:14,992 --> 00:01:18,763 He presents to audiences, including my company, about all 31 00:01:18,844 --> 00:01:21,790 things related to employee engagement and great leadership. 32 00:01:21,790 --> 00:01:25,427 A really great friend and a great colleague. 33 00:01:25,427 --> 00:01:26,762 Bob, welcome to the show. 34 00:01:27,683 --> 00:01:29,188 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Kyle. 35 00:01:29,188 --> 00:01:32,480 I am absolutely delighted to be here with you and your audience 36 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:32,480 . 37 00:01:32,480 --> 00:01:32,802 Thanks. 38 00:01:33,724 --> 00:01:36,609 Speaker 2: Thank you and I appreciate you taking the time 39 00:01:37,691 --> 00:01:40,703 today, and I really think that our listeners are going to get 40 00:01:40,743 --> 00:01:41,605 some great content. 41 00:01:41,605 --> 00:01:46,126 I think that my personal experience with some of the work 42 00:01:46,126 --> 00:01:48,331 that you've done and the things that you've shared with my team 43 00:01:48,331 --> 00:01:50,620 have been really impactful, and I've heard nothing but 44 00:01:50,661 --> 00:01:54,409 wonderful, wonderful responses from some of the work we've done 45 00:01:54,409 --> 00:01:56,462 , and I just think it's going to be really valuable for our 46 00:01:56,503 --> 00:01:56,903 listeners. 47 00:01:56,903 --> 00:02:00,320 So I'd like to start out by just understanding a little bit 48 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:01,944 more about your background. 49 00:02:01,944 --> 00:02:06,353 What brought you into the rich world of employee engagement? 50 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,609 Speaker 1: Well, I think this will certainly resonate with 51 00:02:10,650 --> 00:02:11,230 your listeners. 52 00:02:11,230 --> 00:02:17,110 I'm a human resources professional, so I spent many 53 00:02:17,169 --> 00:02:18,132 years in the trenches. 54 00:02:18,132 --> 00:02:21,782 I think I'll be giving my age away, but here goes. 55 00:02:21,782 --> 00:02:31,487 I was a personnel rep in 1985 and to a series of jobs in the 56 00:02:31,527 --> 00:02:33,889 human resources area. 57 00:02:33,889 --> 00:02:38,772 I became corporate employment manager, became director of 58 00:02:38,793 --> 00:02:42,895 training and development, became chief HR officer, became 59 00:02:42,975 --> 00:02:46,277 executive VP of human resources and organizational development 60 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,366 and actually became chief operations officer. 61 00:02:49,366 --> 00:02:52,272 So I've spoken at a lot of HR conferences. 62 00:02:52,272 --> 00:02:55,645 Just on that note alone. 63 00:02:55,645 --> 00:03:00,274 As you know, Kyle, hr doesn't usually get a seat at the table 64 00:03:00,433 --> 00:03:05,146 in which you are running the company, and I did, and I think 65 00:03:05,227 --> 00:03:10,615 it speaks to your audience that if you operate as the HR 66 00:03:10,715 --> 00:03:14,562 traditional caretaker of policies, you're not going to 67 00:03:14,602 --> 00:03:16,127 become chief operations officer. 68 00:03:16,127 --> 00:03:22,012 So I did that for over 30 years . 69 00:03:22,012 --> 00:03:28,710 In 2009, I was chief HR officer for a global 50,000 employee 70 00:03:28,751 --> 00:03:29,110 company. 71 00:03:29,372 --> 00:03:31,294 I had an epiphany I wanted to. 72 00:03:31,294 --> 00:03:34,824 I heard from so many people that I needed to write a book. 73 00:03:34,824 --> 00:03:39,740 You know I had spent many years inside focusing on engagement 74 00:03:40,944 --> 00:03:45,824 as a business driver, not as a nice to do thing and just so 75 00:03:45,864 --> 00:03:48,371 many people said, hey, you have to capture this. 76 00:03:48,371 --> 00:03:49,745 You know this is a case study. 77 00:03:49,745 --> 00:03:51,185 So I wrote my first book. 78 00:03:51,185 --> 00:03:54,628 People started asking me to talk on the book. 79 00:03:54,628 --> 00:03:57,671 That led to really a speaking business. 80 00:03:57,671 --> 00:04:00,990 People started asking me can you come and help us? 81 00:04:00,990 --> 00:04:03,468 And that led to you know, a consulting business. 82 00:04:03,468 --> 00:04:06,143 Then they started asking, hey, do you do surveys? 83 00:04:06,143 --> 00:04:08,890 And too much of a capitalist to always say no. 84 00:04:08,890 --> 00:04:12,811 So I finally said yes and that led to you know selling products 85 00:04:12,811 --> 00:04:16,007 , and, and, and here I am. 86 00:04:16,007 --> 00:04:18,391 So for the past 13 years I've, I've. 87 00:04:18,391 --> 00:04:24,250 People could find me at the employee engagement group on 88 00:04:24,331 --> 00:04:25,353 employeeengagementcom. 89 00:04:27,300 --> 00:04:29,927 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and you know, I, I think, I think it's 90 00:04:29,966 --> 00:04:34,144 really important to uh, uh, you know, maybe take a step back and 91 00:04:34,144 --> 00:04:37,699 and and dig into one of the comments you made, cause it's 92 00:04:37,718 --> 00:04:42,728 something that I, you know, I I've seen, um, again and again. 93 00:04:42,728 --> 00:04:49,639 When employee engagement works whether it's a department that's 94 00:04:49,639 --> 00:04:52,444 engaged or a company that's engaged, or a leader that's 95 00:04:52,504 --> 00:04:58,560 engaged, the business just runs better, it just works. 96 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:04,045 You see better results, and you mentioned that engagement in 97 00:05:04,064 --> 00:05:06,307 your role was really a business driver. 98 00:05:06,307 --> 00:05:08,488 So unpack that a little bit. 99 00:05:08,488 --> 00:05:11,750 You know, as we look at employee engagement, we think 100 00:05:11,790 --> 00:05:13,913 about all the things we do. 101 00:05:13,913 --> 00:05:18,516 How do we really tap into that engagement as a driver of the 102 00:05:18,596 --> 00:05:19,016 business? 103 00:05:28,560 --> 00:05:29,401 Speaker 1: Yeah, selfishly, when I started focusing on 104 00:05:29,420 --> 00:05:30,802 engagement, I didn't really know , kyle, it was going to be a 105 00:05:30,822 --> 00:05:31,163 business driver. 106 00:05:31,163 --> 00:05:33,605 I just didn't want to spend my career showing up to various 107 00:05:33,685 --> 00:05:38,571 locations and having people hate to see me because they would 108 00:05:38,610 --> 00:05:43,557 view that I was there to manage a layoff or a termination. 109 00:05:43,557 --> 00:05:48,891 I was there to let them know that their benefit premiums were 110 00:05:48,891 --> 00:05:51,180 going up, so it was all bad news stuff. 111 00:05:51,180 --> 00:05:57,574 So I really started proactively showing up to help facilitate. 112 00:05:57,574 --> 00:06:01,841 I had facilitation skills, like a lot of HR people do, and I 113 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:06,689 started facilitating group discussions about their business 114 00:06:06,689 --> 00:06:10,567 If you're underperforming in sales, why? 115 00:06:10,567 --> 00:06:14,678 So I was able to leverage facilitations, my facilitation 116 00:06:14,718 --> 00:06:16,983 skills, to really help the business. 117 00:06:16,983 --> 00:06:22,331 And this became an internal program and businesses started 118 00:06:22,571 --> 00:06:28,646 asking me to appear to do an all-day workshop on this. 119 00:06:28,646 --> 00:06:30,790 We called it Leadership Excellence Through Advanced 120 00:06:30,829 --> 00:06:35,906 Practices, but it really was an HR-led internal initiative. 121 00:06:35,906 --> 00:06:41,014 That was a business improvement program and the outcome of that 122 00:06:41,014 --> 00:06:46,411 , managers and employees would say we were engaged in the 123 00:06:46,471 --> 00:06:46,932 business. 124 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,367 And I was so early in this whole concept, kyle, that you know 125 00:06:51,466 --> 00:06:55,132 employeeengagementcom was a domain that I acquired. 126 00:06:55,132 --> 00:06:56,535 It was sitting out there. 127 00:06:56,535 --> 00:06:59,728 I acquired it because so many people said, you know, started 128 00:06:59,747 --> 00:07:00,850 calling me the engagement guy. 129 00:07:00,850 --> 00:07:07,177 So it was really in some ways, selfishly motivated to get 130 00:07:07,216 --> 00:07:10,346 myself doing things that were more positively received by the 131 00:07:10,406 --> 00:07:12,411 business instead of negatively received. 132 00:07:12,411 --> 00:07:16,908 And, as it turned out, we started tracking the business. 133 00:07:17,009 --> 00:07:20,362 If I would appear and do a workshop, we would see business 134 00:07:20,442 --> 00:07:26,273 results going up and at the time , you know, we got acquired by a 135 00:07:26,273 --> 00:07:31,065 private equity firm and the private equity people loved this 136 00:07:31,065 --> 00:07:35,841 process that we were using and they started asking me to use 137 00:07:36,081 --> 00:07:38,987 the process with sister companies and we started 138 00:07:39,069 --> 00:07:40,973 measuring the business results. 139 00:07:40,973 --> 00:07:44,848 So I was living a case study and you, and when we got 140 00:07:44,889 --> 00:07:47,944 acquired by a global company, they started asking me to do the 141 00:07:47,944 --> 00:07:53,101 same work with their Hong Kong operations, in Brazil, in Dubai. 142 00:07:53,101 --> 00:07:55,264 So I lived it. 143 00:07:55,264 --> 00:07:56,547 I lived it. 144 00:07:56,547 --> 00:08:01,495 Now, if you Google employee engagement business results, 145 00:08:01,540 --> 00:08:02,341 you'll see Gallup. 146 00:08:02,341 --> 00:08:04,505 I mean, there's a whole boutique industry right now that 147 00:08:04,505 --> 00:08:05,108 measures this. 148 00:08:05,108 --> 00:08:08,281 If you have higher engagement, you're going to have higher 149 00:08:08,321 --> 00:08:09,463 results on your business. 150 00:08:09,564 --> 00:08:13,922 And if you have lower engagement at some point in time, it will 151 00:08:13,982 --> 00:08:15,264 negatively impact the business. 152 00:08:17,088 --> 00:08:20,021 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and I think what's really interesting 153 00:08:20,442 --> 00:08:24,173 is and I'm sure many HR professionals feel this way you 154 00:08:24,214 --> 00:08:27,545 know that there's this constant question out there the seat at 155 00:08:27,564 --> 00:08:29,050 the table, as you described it right. 156 00:08:29,050 --> 00:08:32,903 You know how do you gain the, you know the credibility, how do 157 00:08:32,903 --> 00:08:33,938 you get that seat? 158 00:08:33,938 --> 00:08:38,110 And in my opinion, it really comes down to solve business 159 00:08:38,169 --> 00:08:41,908 problems and drive results, and then you don't have to fight for 160 00:08:41,908 --> 00:08:44,046 a seat, people will just ask you to be there. 161 00:08:44,046 --> 00:08:45,860 Was that your experience? 162 00:08:46,581 --> 00:08:54,974 Speaker 1: Yeah, I hated the perception of HR as the evil HR 163 00:08:54,994 --> 00:09:00,024 director in Dilbert and in some cases and I hate to insult your 164 00:09:00,125 --> 00:09:03,091 audience so I will apologize in advance for what I'm going to 165 00:09:03,130 --> 00:09:08,686 say but in some cases that reputation was deserved, with 166 00:09:08,787 --> 00:09:12,779 the HR professional who truly viewed their power, their 167 00:09:12,900 --> 00:09:17,549 influence, was the gatekeeper of policies, right? 168 00:09:17,549 --> 00:09:21,345 No, you can't do this because we'll get sued, and I always 169 00:09:21,404 --> 00:09:25,133 wanted to introduce a concept of you know, learn to say yes. 170 00:09:25,133 --> 00:09:29,206 So, if the benefit form is arriving two days late, instead 171 00:09:29,245 --> 00:09:31,909 of saying we can't give our employee and their family 172 00:09:31,970 --> 00:09:35,554 benefits, why can't we Like, why can't we? 173 00:09:35,554 --> 00:09:39,169 So let's learn to say yes, let's try to help. 174 00:09:39,299 --> 00:09:41,945 Or if somebody wants to lay someone off, I don't want to 175 00:09:41,985 --> 00:09:45,953 tell the president of the European operations they can't. 176 00:09:45,953 --> 00:09:51,254 I want to be in the position of counseling them, give them the 177 00:09:51,294 --> 00:09:54,683 pluses and minuses and letting them know this is your decision, 178 00:09:54,683 --> 00:09:55,525 not my decision. 179 00:09:55,525 --> 00:09:59,660 I'm here to help you, not here to tell you what you can and 180 00:09:59,681 --> 00:10:00,381 cannot do. 181 00:10:00,381 --> 00:10:03,528 So you know, the greatest advice I always give HR people 182 00:10:03,788 --> 00:10:06,441 is learn the business of the business. 183 00:10:06,441 --> 00:10:08,706 You have to speak their language. 184 00:10:08,706 --> 00:10:11,171 You have to understand that. 185 00:10:11,171 --> 00:10:13,764 You know you have to worry about the people, but you have 186 00:10:13,783 --> 00:10:15,168 to worry about the business, right. 187 00:10:15,168 --> 00:10:18,203 You know, instead of flooding an organizational layoff, 188 00:10:18,563 --> 00:10:23,442 perhaps you should be triggering discussions on a layoff because 189 00:10:23,442 --> 00:10:24,807 you understand the business right. 190 00:10:24,807 --> 00:10:27,865 So so you know, really understand the business and 191 00:10:27,947 --> 00:10:32,149 learn to say yes, not not get your influence by saying no. 192 00:10:35,280 --> 00:10:36,746 Speaker 4: We'll be back after a quick break. 193 00:10:36,746 --> 00:10:40,547 If you're a private practice owner, here's why you want to 194 00:10:40,648 --> 00:10:41,811 hire virtual assistants. 195 00:10:41,811 --> 00:10:45,035 Virtual assistants not only can perform all of the non-clinical 196 00:10:45,035 --> 00:10:48,408 responsibilities by supporting or replacing your current team, 197 00:10:48,721 --> 00:10:51,902 but they can do it at a fraction of 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in an operations role before human resources and I 210 00:11:34,331 --> 00:11:38,274 wanted to be in human resources after I was in that operations 211 00:11:38,754 --> 00:11:41,716 role, when I figured out what HR did and that was interesting to 212 00:11:41,716 --> 00:11:41,876 me. 213 00:11:41,876 --> 00:11:47,668 Hr did and that was interesting to me, but I had to figure out 214 00:11:47,687 --> 00:11:48,230 the business before they. 215 00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:49,556 Let me do HR and that for me that was a really big blessing 216 00:11:49,576 --> 00:11:52,525 because I had a team of you know , at certain times, well over a 217 00:11:52,566 --> 00:11:57,360 hundred employees that I was supervising and I was struggling 218 00:11:57,360 --> 00:12:02,115 as a new leader and as just as a leader in general, that when I 219 00:12:02,115 --> 00:12:05,605 went into HR, I understood the day-to-day struggles in the life 220 00:12:05,605 --> 00:12:08,110 of somebody in an operations role so I could be a better 221 00:12:08,171 --> 00:12:11,768 partner for them, and I also knew what their job was right. 222 00:12:11,768 --> 00:12:14,326 That helps you have to understand those things. 223 00:12:15,139 --> 00:12:20,985 Speaker 1: There's a reason why some of these long-standing, 224 00:12:21,046 --> 00:12:30,735 most admired companies you know, pepsi, procter Gamble, ge 225 00:12:30,796 --> 00:12:34,804 before they had their recent hiccup, they would historically 226 00:12:34,904 --> 00:12:37,692 rotate people from operations into corporate roles. 227 00:12:37,692 --> 00:12:40,024 Right, because they wanted them to understand. 228 00:12:40,024 --> 00:12:40,846 You know. 229 00:12:40,846 --> 00:12:43,392 If you're an HR person and you have no idea what the business 230 00:12:43,471 --> 00:12:46,466 is like, oh, you don't know what being in the field is like 231 00:12:46,525 --> 00:12:52,345 versus being in corporate headquarters, and I think that 232 00:12:52,424 --> 00:12:54,269 is such an important evolution. 233 00:12:54,269 --> 00:13:02,539 I always tell HR functions if you can spend time in operations 234 00:13:02,539 --> 00:13:06,850 , if you can't do it through a transfer, get out there, be 235 00:13:06,910 --> 00:13:11,571 proactive, do something that you do well for them and get you 236 00:13:11,591 --> 00:13:15,250 know, get to know their business , have them see you as part of 237 00:13:15,289 --> 00:13:18,567 their team, not part of the HR function. 238 00:13:18,567 --> 00:13:18,928 You know. 239 00:13:18,928 --> 00:13:20,807 So you know. 240 00:13:20,807 --> 00:13:24,003 I think your experience in operations, my experience as COO 241 00:13:24,003 --> 00:13:28,649 , taught me as much about my function in human resources as 242 00:13:29,110 --> 00:13:29,831 my prior. 243 00:13:29,831 --> 00:13:32,475 You know, 25 years at the time in human resources. 244 00:13:34,019 --> 00:13:34,520 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 245 00:13:34,520 --> 00:13:40,188 Yeah, it was a powerful learning moment for me thing. 246 00:13:40,188 --> 00:13:45,496 That, um, that, uh, your, your, your comments kind of jogged my 247 00:13:45,496 --> 00:13:49,725 memory about was uh, uh, you know a scenario where and I've 248 00:13:49,785 --> 00:13:52,513 told this story on the podcast before, so if I'm boring any 249 00:13:52,580 --> 00:13:57,548 listeners I apologize, but I had , uh, uh, an HR mentor early on 250 00:13:57,708 --> 00:14:02,745 who literally told me you know, hr's job is to be equal 251 00:14:02,846 --> 00:14:03,447 opportunity. 252 00:14:03,447 --> 00:14:08,363 You know, hate everybody the same, and it was. 253 00:14:08,363 --> 00:14:11,676 It was said as a joke, but there, you know, under every 254 00:14:11,736 --> 00:14:13,907 little bit of sarcasm there's a little bit of truth there. 255 00:14:13,907 --> 00:14:16,962 But that really, you know, that kind of that compliance mindset 256 00:14:16,962 --> 00:14:20,875 that, hey, let's just make sure we don't get sued, like just 257 00:14:20,936 --> 00:14:24,687 thinking in that context that will ripple out into all of your 258 00:14:24,687 --> 00:14:28,748 actions and that, just like I don't know about you, bob, that 259 00:14:28,788 --> 00:14:30,351 just sounds like that would just suck. 260 00:14:30,500 --> 00:14:33,850 Speaker 1: I don't want to do that job in a selfish way, I 261 00:14:33,889 --> 00:14:34,129 know. 262 00:14:34,311 --> 00:14:34,490 Speaker 4: I know. 263 00:14:34,840 --> 00:14:39,110 Speaker 1: And you know I have a lot of clients really all over 264 00:14:39,130 --> 00:14:44,246 the globe and you know once again I might be insulting the 265 00:14:44,307 --> 00:14:51,077 function, but if I'm hired by the CEO or COO, it's a different 266 00:14:51,077 --> 00:14:52,539 relationship. 267 00:14:52,539 --> 00:14:56,705 If I'm hired by some of the human resource folks who are 268 00:14:56,784 --> 00:15:00,469 still in that compliant telling me, you know well, you can't say 269 00:15:00,469 --> 00:15:03,532 this, you can't do this, you can't, you know. 270 00:15:03,532 --> 00:15:08,965 So it runs deep inside the function and I do think it has 271 00:15:09,066 --> 00:15:09,607 changed. 272 00:15:09,607 --> 00:15:11,647 I mean, it's changed so much for the better. 273 00:15:11,647 --> 00:15:14,583 Kyle, you know the vast majority of human resource 274 00:15:14,624 --> 00:15:15,225 professionals. 275 00:15:16,628 --> 00:15:20,316 When I first entered HR in the personnel department, you know 276 00:15:20,375 --> 00:15:22,500 we weren't trained personnel people. 277 00:15:22,500 --> 00:15:24,062 I was a former school teacher, right? 278 00:15:24,062 --> 00:15:25,182 You know we weren't trained personnel people. 279 00:15:25,182 --> 00:15:25,943 I was a former school teacher, right? 280 00:15:25,943 --> 00:15:29,307 You know it was always funny that the CFO was, you know, a 281 00:15:29,346 --> 00:15:31,028 CPA and they had an MBA. 282 00:15:31,028 --> 00:15:32,910 And you know the HR person. 283 00:15:32,910 --> 00:15:36,794 You know, six months prior they were in charge of the 284 00:15:36,835 --> 00:15:37,416 receptionist. 285 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,809 So the evolution of the function has evolved for the better so 286 00:15:46,830 --> 00:15:47,514 much in the past 30 years. 287 00:15:47,514 --> 00:15:48,519 So it's a function that I love daily. 288 00:15:48,519 --> 00:15:53,581 Even when I was COO, I was a successor to the CEO and I want 289 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:58,331 to get back into my comfort area of focusing on the people, 290 00:15:58,552 --> 00:16:02,140 which I always found to be the best part of the job, but the 291 00:16:02,181 --> 00:16:03,707 function has certainly evolved. 292 00:16:03,707 --> 00:16:08,863 The best part of the job, but the function has certainly 293 00:16:08,903 --> 00:16:10,706 evolved and these associations and podcasts and Disrupt HR. 294 00:16:10,706 --> 00:16:16,214 There is a breed of HR people that I think have been doing 295 00:16:16,274 --> 00:16:21,688 some great things pushing the function, and I'm on the second 296 00:16:22,048 --> 00:16:28,535 nine, not the front nine, but I do see a lot of people really 297 00:16:28,696 --> 00:16:33,207 pushing the function in a more innovative, edgy way. 298 00:16:33,207 --> 00:16:34,250 That I think is great. 299 00:16:36,072 --> 00:16:36,474 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 300 00:16:36,474 --> 00:16:40,241 I think that's certainly been my experience, at least over the 301 00:16:40,241 --> 00:16:45,967 last decade or so that I've been working, you know working, 302 00:16:46,229 --> 00:16:49,607 you know more more directly in the function, and, and I think 303 00:16:50,631 --> 00:16:54,464 you know what's what's really been interesting is the just the 304 00:16:54,464 --> 00:16:57,110 change over the last few years, kind of the acceleration of 305 00:16:57,169 --> 00:17:00,105 change, with, you know, trying to figure out work from home. 306 00:17:00,105 --> 00:17:04,201 You know social unrest, dealing with something that that we 307 00:17:04,241 --> 00:17:05,103 never thought we would deal with . 308 00:17:05,103 --> 00:17:09,871 You know a global pandemic and, and you know, I, I remember 309 00:17:09,931 --> 00:17:14,445 talking to, uh, to my CEO, um, who you know really well, bob, 310 00:17:14,506 --> 00:17:18,319 and you know, and, and his comment at one point was this is 311 00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:18,920 all HR. 312 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:20,221 You know all of this. 313 00:17:20,361 --> 00:17:22,980 This, this is the most important thing right now is taking care 314 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:27,262 of the people and putting the people first, and having a 315 00:17:27,363 --> 00:17:31,243 leader like that, having a focus like that, especially in these 316 00:17:31,284 --> 00:17:32,683 times, I think is so critical. 317 00:17:32,683 --> 00:17:36,626 But I guarantee you that there's so many professionals 318 00:17:36,646 --> 00:17:39,273 listening to this right now that are nodding their heads up and 319 00:17:39,314 --> 00:17:39,575 down. 320 00:17:39,575 --> 00:17:41,185 Yes, yes, I agree. 321 00:17:41,185 --> 00:17:44,653 But then the next question is but how do I do that in my 322 00:17:44,733 --> 00:17:45,414 organization? 323 00:17:45,414 --> 00:17:50,518 So, from your standpoint, bob, as you think about the changes 324 00:17:50,557 --> 00:17:53,849 that you've seen and the changes that maybe still need to occur 325 00:17:53,891 --> 00:17:55,276 in many of our organizations. 326 00:17:55,276 --> 00:17:58,526 What would be some steps that you would recommend an HR 327 00:17:58,566 --> 00:18:01,672 professional do if they see that there needs to be some level of 328 00:18:01,672 --> 00:18:05,419 change or elevation or focus on the people? 329 00:18:24,825 --> 00:18:25,926 Speaker 1: the culture that the function is not being allowed to 330 00:18:25,926 --> 00:18:27,329 , you know, be influential, or is it the individual sitting in 331 00:18:27,369 --> 00:18:29,555 the seat who's incapable of being influential? 332 00:18:29,555 --> 00:18:38,071 So it's a tough one to paint with a broad base brush, right? 333 00:18:38,071 --> 00:18:45,902 But I would say, say, if you view yourself as an innovative, 334 00:18:46,204 --> 00:18:53,715 disruptive type of HR person or function or team and you have 335 00:18:53,776 --> 00:18:59,313 some resistance because the CEO, him or her, is resistant to the 336 00:18:59,313 --> 00:19:02,183 HR function Maybe they had a bad experience, right. 337 00:19:02,183 --> 00:19:04,809 So maybe they view the HR department as the police 338 00:19:04,849 --> 00:19:09,746 department Then I would encourage you to find the most 339 00:19:09,766 --> 00:19:13,430 senior person organizationally who does support the function. 340 00:19:13,430 --> 00:19:21,479 Bond with that function, get them as your partner and 341 00:19:21,719 --> 00:19:27,586 increasing that visibility of both you personally as well as 342 00:19:27,606 --> 00:19:30,733 the function, because there's always someone who reports up to 343 00:19:30,733 --> 00:19:36,810 the CEO, who gets it in case the CEO or COO doesn't Find that 344 00:19:36,810 --> 00:19:37,250 person. 345 00:19:37,250 --> 00:19:38,432 Partner with that person. 346 00:19:38,432 --> 00:19:45,768 Create value If, by some chance , that it's the culture and it's 347 00:19:45,768 --> 00:19:48,375 an old-fashioned organizational culture that the function is 348 00:19:48,454 --> 00:19:49,726 never going to get the respect. 349 00:19:50,788 --> 00:19:55,040 Life is too short to not have influence and I would encourage 350 00:19:55,101 --> 00:19:57,988 people to weigh their career options elsewhere. 351 00:19:57,988 --> 00:20:00,294 Try to fix where you are. 352 00:20:00,294 --> 00:20:03,964 It's always easier, I think, than to look to change the jobs 353 00:20:04,085 --> 00:20:07,079 every time there's a hiccup, but occasionally you might find 354 00:20:07,121 --> 00:20:11,813 yourself in an organization that , if the frustration level is so 355 00:20:11,813 --> 00:20:15,785 high and you can't influence, there are so many organizations 356 00:20:16,026 --> 00:20:21,171 that are looking for HR to lead that I would encourage you to 357 00:20:22,212 --> 00:20:23,375 weigh some alternatives. 358 00:20:25,337 --> 00:20:25,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. 359 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,534 I think it's a really important point. 360 00:20:28,534 --> 00:20:33,356 I think having an ally is really important, the right ally 361 00:20:33,356 --> 00:20:38,507 , and I think, being honest about that, you know that 362 00:20:38,586 --> 00:20:39,367 cultural question. 363 00:20:39,367 --> 00:20:43,351 But I also think I think the other point I think that is 364 00:20:44,251 --> 00:20:47,054 really important was the comment about you know, is it the 365 00:20:47,074 --> 00:20:47,634 individual? 366 00:20:47,634 --> 00:20:52,978 You know, before you jump, have you really done everything you 367 00:20:53,038 --> 00:20:57,162 know that you can do to expand your influence? 368 00:20:57,162 --> 00:21:00,364 You know, are you saying yes as much as you can? 369 00:21:00,364 --> 00:21:03,173 Are you really thinking outside the box or are you just 370 00:21:03,233 --> 00:21:07,248 frustrated because somebody asked a question that you didn't 371 00:21:07,248 --> 00:21:08,191 like the tone of? 372 00:21:08,191 --> 00:21:12,006 You know what I mean, and and but, there's, there's, you know, 373 00:21:12,006 --> 00:21:12,346 you have. 374 00:21:12,627 --> 00:21:12,688 I. 375 00:21:12,688 --> 00:21:15,134 I truly believe you kind of have to ask those questions 376 00:21:15,194 --> 00:21:19,012 internally and, yes, once you've checked the box, that, yeah, I 377 00:21:19,073 --> 00:21:46,266 really have checked asked those questions. 378 00:21:46,326 --> 00:21:47,950 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's time to think about doing something else 379 00:21:47,950 --> 00:21:48,170 of the CEO. 380 00:21:48,170 --> 00:21:50,654 But she's bonded with the COO in such a way that it has given 381 00:21:50,674 --> 00:21:52,538 her hope and encouragement that it's a good company. 382 00:21:52,538 --> 00:21:55,064 She also views CEO tenures aren't that long and she's 383 00:21:55,084 --> 00:21:57,849 concluded that the organizational culture, the COO, 384 00:21:57,849 --> 00:22:01,178 other people it's worth sticking it out, even if the 385 00:22:01,258 --> 00:22:06,236 head person maybe has a legacy opinion of HR that isn't 386 00:22:06,296 --> 00:22:06,696 favorable. 387 00:22:06,696 --> 00:22:10,625 So you know there's such personal decisions. 388 00:22:10,625 --> 00:22:15,234 You know I do believe the HR folks can help themselves. 389 00:22:15,234 --> 00:22:20,928 Stay current, Read the latest, Go to the conferences, you know, 390 00:22:20,928 --> 00:22:25,471 hear what other people are saying, Build your network and 391 00:22:27,354 --> 00:22:32,258 look at your function in the mirror Are you a business 392 00:22:32,298 --> 00:22:35,201 partner or are you a business police department? 393 00:22:35,201 --> 00:22:38,904 And ask what can we ourselves do differently? 394 00:22:39,828 --> 00:22:42,420 Speaker 2: And ask what can we, what can we ourselves do 395 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:42,760 differently? 396 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:45,887 Yeah Well, I mean, I, you know, self admittedly, I certainly 397 00:22:45,948 --> 00:22:48,815 fall into that trap of like, almost like being like the 398 00:22:48,855 --> 00:22:52,893 traffic cop, right, and and it's , and it's because it's how many 399 00:22:52,893 --> 00:22:54,336 of us were trained or brought up? 400 00:22:54,336 --> 00:22:57,369 You know, it's, it's, you know, you're, you're, you're supposed 401 00:22:57,369 --> 00:23:00,675 to be the policy police, you're supposed to be the black and 402 00:23:00,736 --> 00:23:02,880 white decider in a lot of cases. 403 00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:10,317 But so often you lose the human element, you know, and you get 404 00:23:10,458 --> 00:23:11,059 stuck in this. 405 00:23:11,059 --> 00:23:14,592 It's almost like getting stuck in a rut where you just kind of 406 00:23:14,632 --> 00:23:18,419 become, you know, an autonomous decision maker. 407 00:23:20,366 --> 00:23:21,029 Speaker 1: It's just terrible. 408 00:23:21,029 --> 00:23:24,732 The greatest advice I give people and I used to practice 409 00:23:24,773 --> 00:23:30,750 this myself If you are in human resources, everything you do 410 00:23:30,809 --> 00:23:34,518 that's reactive doesn't get noticed unless you do something 411 00:23:34,597 --> 00:23:34,878 wrong. 412 00:23:34,878 --> 00:23:37,348 So think about that for a moment. 413 00:23:37,348 --> 00:23:40,518 All of the administrative things that people do, all of 414 00:23:40,538 --> 00:23:45,753 the reactive things filling requisitions, you know, managing 415 00:23:45,753 --> 00:23:48,442 open enrollment in your paid program and trying to deal with 416 00:23:48,462 --> 00:23:52,676 the escalation of salaries and inflationary period all of the 417 00:23:52,798 --> 00:23:56,347 administrative things that come across our desk which can 418 00:23:56,409 --> 00:24:05,526 exhaust all of us I put in a reactive camp, which can exhaust 419 00:24:05,526 --> 00:24:05,807 all of us. 420 00:24:05,807 --> 00:24:06,648 I put in a reactive camp. 421 00:24:06,669 --> 00:24:08,232 True, personal engagement occurs when we are proactive. 422 00:24:08,232 --> 00:24:08,914 So how do you establish a day? 423 00:24:08,914 --> 00:24:12,744 And I used to tell my team I had 450 HR people reporting to 424 00:24:12,785 --> 00:24:17,172 me and I used to say try to schedule your week so that 50% 425 00:24:17,192 --> 00:24:21,317 of your week is proactive and 50% of your week is reactive. 426 00:24:21,317 --> 00:24:25,329 Proactive would be you're inviting yourself to a 427 00:24:25,390 --> 00:24:28,877 department meeting, you're creating a virtual training 428 00:24:28,917 --> 00:24:34,175 program for employees, you're introducing a new employee 429 00:24:34,195 --> 00:24:39,211 referral program, and personal engagement comes when you're 430 00:24:39,291 --> 00:24:43,646 introducing and doing something proactively but the function is 431 00:24:44,348 --> 00:24:51,160 so administrative heavy that you find yourself in a rut. 432 00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,829 You can just like sit there Like I used to joke with my wife 433 00:24:54,829 --> 00:24:59,222 I could sit in my office and never do anything that would be 434 00:24:59,304 --> 00:24:59,684 proactive. 435 00:25:00,126 --> 00:25:03,890 Like everything comes to me emails, telephone calls, time 436 00:25:03,910 --> 00:25:07,337 for open enrollment boss wants to see me like everything comes. 437 00:25:07,337 --> 00:25:11,960 And when I would separate myself and introduce stuff I'm 438 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,306 designing a new program, I'm showing up to a department, I'm 439 00:25:14,346 --> 00:25:18,712 creating an event those were the things that would just make me 440 00:25:20,255 --> 00:25:23,660 be electrified and the things that would get me noticed. 441 00:25:23,660 --> 00:25:28,833 So I finally concluded hey, any proactive thing I do gets me 442 00:25:28,894 --> 00:25:31,778 positive press or the department positive press. 443 00:25:31,778 --> 00:25:35,112 Anything that's administrative that comes to me. 444 00:25:35,112 --> 00:25:37,897 The press can only be bad when you do something wrong. 445 00:25:39,906 --> 00:25:41,192 Speaker 2: Yeah, recruiting comes to mind. 446 00:25:41,192 --> 00:25:46,392 It's only bad when it's you know it's expected that you fill 447 00:25:46,392 --> 00:25:48,496 all these open positions, but it's bad when you have too many. 448 00:25:49,157 --> 00:25:53,872 Speaker 1: Absolutely the ghost positions right. 449 00:25:53,872 --> 00:25:57,491 So people get the approval for a rec and they really don't want 450 00:25:57,491 --> 00:25:58,053 to fill it. 451 00:25:58,053 --> 00:26:02,188 But it kills your process, your recruiting team. 452 00:26:02,188 --> 00:26:04,776 Days to fill a rack, yeah yeah, yeah. 453 00:26:04,776 --> 00:26:06,309 Those things can be tough. 454 00:26:07,005 --> 00:26:07,749 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've had that. 455 00:26:07,749 --> 00:26:09,127 Yeah, Especially lately. 456 00:26:09,127 --> 00:26:13,942 I seem to have a lot of those dialogues, but it's been 457 00:26:13,982 --> 00:26:14,265 interesting. 458 00:26:14,265 --> 00:26:19,615 But here's one thing that I will say on that is you know, in 459 00:26:19,615 --> 00:26:26,191 one of my, one of my locations, I have an, a leader who truly 460 00:26:26,231 --> 00:26:28,596 believes in employee engagement. 461 00:26:28,596 --> 00:26:32,348 You know, he, he, he lives it, he breathes it, he's involved, 462 00:26:32,388 --> 00:26:32,990 he listens. 463 00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:34,753 And guess who? 464 00:26:34,753 --> 00:26:38,268 Has zero open positions right now in a manufacturing setting? 465 00:26:38,268 --> 00:26:43,645 He has people asking to work here because they, they have 466 00:26:43,747 --> 00:26:45,868 referrals in front and you know, and that's just another great 467 00:26:45,888 --> 00:26:49,432 example of like the, the business is running smoothly. 468 00:26:49,432 --> 00:26:52,377 You know, retention is great because we have a leader who 469 00:26:52,819 --> 00:26:54,930 believes in employee engagement and truly supports. 470 00:26:55,653 --> 00:26:55,933 Speaker 1: It's not. 471 00:26:55,933 --> 00:26:59,015 It's not coincidental, kyle, it's it. 472 00:26:59,015 --> 00:27:03,717 There's a reason why he has no open requisitions. 473 00:27:07,366 --> 00:27:07,448 Speaker 2: Yeah. 474 00:27:07,448 --> 00:27:10,714 So even if you're just looking at this from a purely selfish 475 00:27:10,836 --> 00:27:14,211 standpoint, it's like it really isn't fun to have to hire people 476 00:27:14,211 --> 00:27:15,233 and have vacant positions. 477 00:27:15,233 --> 00:27:18,146 So if you don't want to do that , then employee engagement can 478 00:27:18,166 --> 00:27:18,548 really help. 479 00:27:19,568 --> 00:27:22,753 Speaker 1: Well, think of filling your swimming pool. 480 00:27:22,753 --> 00:27:28,170 If you have a big giant hole in your liner, right, it's really 481 00:27:28,230 --> 00:27:28,771 difficult. 482 00:27:28,771 --> 00:27:33,608 And it's the same concept If you have low engagement, which 483 00:27:33,769 --> 00:27:37,856 usually results in higher than industry average voluntary 484 00:27:37,896 --> 00:27:40,203 turnover right, and you're trying to grow your business, 485 00:27:40,606 --> 00:27:43,807 the hardest thing in the world to do is add headcount while 486 00:27:43,846 --> 00:27:48,030 you're also replacing headcount, you know, and it becomes toxic. 487 00:27:48,030 --> 00:27:51,603 You know, as people leave, even people who weren't thinking of 488 00:27:51,663 --> 00:27:53,751 leaving start thinking of leaving. 489 00:27:53,751 --> 00:27:55,211 Right, it's the Pied Piper effect. 490 00:27:55,211 --> 00:28:00,170 And I think you know focusing on engagement has just so many 491 00:28:00,390 --> 00:28:01,453 tangible benefits. 492 00:28:01,453 --> 00:28:05,576 Something as simple as your employee referral percents go 493 00:28:05,657 --> 00:28:09,309 way up when people are engaged enough to refer their colleagues 494 00:28:09,309 --> 00:28:09,309 . 495 00:28:10,875 --> 00:28:12,846 Speaker 2: Absolutely so. 496 00:28:12,846 --> 00:28:15,207 I do want to talk about that a little bit Obviously. 497 00:28:15,207 --> 00:28:17,213 You know you're a subject matter expert. 498 00:28:17,213 --> 00:28:20,431 You've lived it, You've written the books. 499 00:28:20,431 --> 00:28:24,127 Subject matter expert You've lived it, You've written the 500 00:28:24,147 --> 00:28:25,451 books For organizations that are looking at engagement or maybe 501 00:28:25,471 --> 00:28:26,532 are wanting to look at engagement. 502 00:28:26,532 --> 00:28:30,209 Where would you say the best place to start is? 503 00:28:30,209 --> 00:28:32,694 Do you start with measuring how you're doing? 504 00:28:32,694 --> 00:28:34,306 Do you start with learning and development? 505 00:28:34,306 --> 00:28:37,173 Where would you advise that we start to think about this? 506 00:28:37,173 --> 00:28:39,267 If this is new for us, yeah. 507 00:28:39,809 --> 00:28:43,868 Speaker 1: So this is going to sound self-serving because we do 508 00:28:43,868 --> 00:28:47,103 engagement surveys, but I don't really care who you use to do 509 00:28:47,143 --> 00:28:50,493 an engagement survey, but you need to have a baseline right, 510 00:28:50,574 --> 00:28:53,446 and the baseline can't be this is what HR thinks or this is 511 00:28:53,507 --> 00:28:56,999 what the leaders think, because the leaders in HR always think 512 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,347 more positively than what is really happening, right. 513 00:29:00,347 --> 00:29:05,157 So the metaphor I like to use, kyle you would never go to your 514 00:29:05,218 --> 00:29:10,035 doctor's office the annual physical without getting blood 515 00:29:10,075 --> 00:29:15,098 work right, and I think an engagement survey is your blood 516 00:29:15,138 --> 00:29:16,724 work for your organization. 517 00:29:16,724 --> 00:29:19,974 You need to know where are the pain points. 518 00:29:19,974 --> 00:29:22,807 So, before you, you know, focus on training and development. 519 00:29:22,807 --> 00:29:24,192 Is that a pain point? 520 00:29:24,192 --> 00:29:24,573 You know? 521 00:29:24,573 --> 00:29:26,317 Is that where the focus should be? 522 00:29:26,317 --> 00:29:27,165 Is it? 523 00:29:27,165 --> 00:29:28,008 You know? 524 00:29:28,028 --> 00:29:31,395 Do you have a leadership issue? 525 00:29:31,395 --> 00:29:36,868 You know, I always look at an engagement survey and I can tell 526 00:29:36,868 --> 00:29:40,998 from the first review that you don't have an engagement issue. 527 00:29:40,998 --> 00:29:43,547 You have a leadership trust issue and because you have a 528 00:29:43,567 --> 00:29:46,194 leadership trust issue, it's trickling throughout the 529 00:29:46,255 --> 00:29:46,836 organization. 530 00:29:46,836 --> 00:29:49,632 So if you focus on training and development, that's not going 531 00:29:49,652 --> 00:29:51,256 to fix your leadership trust issue. 532 00:29:51,256 --> 00:29:57,213 So, you know, give yourself some data and view engagement 533 00:29:57,233 --> 00:29:58,596 like the CFO views. 534 00:29:58,596 --> 00:30:03,425 You know, views the P&L statement Capture your data that 535 00:30:03,425 --> 00:30:08,808 gives you some idea of where to focus your energy, as well as 536 00:30:08,828 --> 00:30:11,576 what locations or departments or divisions you should be 537 00:30:11,636 --> 00:30:12,519 focusing your energy on. 538 00:30:15,426 --> 00:30:16,873 Speaker 4: We'll be back after a quick break. 539 00:30:18,707 --> 00:30:21,493 Speaker 3: At my current company , I've generated seven figures 540 00:30:21,534 --> 00:30:26,030 in revenue in just six months doing all the sales by myself. 541 00:30:26,030 --> 00:30:29,176 Just me and Rumi, my secret weapon. 542 00:30:29,176 --> 00:30:31,467 Rumi isn't just another meeting app. 543 00:30:31,467 --> 00:30:34,294 It's like Zoom or Google Meet, but with AI tools that 544 00:30:34,433 --> 00:30:35,738 supercharge my results. 545 00:30:35,738 --> 00:30:39,548 Rumi records every meeting, gives me real-time insights 546 00:30:39,568 --> 00:30:42,711 during sales calls and if I've met with a prospect in the past, 547 00:30:42,711 --> 00:30:45,695 rumi's meeting memory answers any questions I have. 548 00:30:45,695 --> 00:30:46,576 Before the call. 549 00:30:46,576 --> 00:30:49,480 I don't waste time digging through notes Rumi preps me 550 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:50,101 instantly. 551 00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:04,261 Speaker 2: Go to tryrumiai that's tryrumiai for a 14-day 552 00:31:04,281 --> 00:31:04,542 free trial? 553 00:31:04,542 --> 00:31:07,448 Absolutely, and I can attest you know we started doing this a 554 00:31:07,448 --> 00:31:07,769 few years ago. 555 00:31:07,769 --> 00:31:09,811 It really highlighted some areas of focus. 556 00:31:09,811 --> 00:31:13,176 The other thing that really helped us do was figure out what 557 00:31:13,176 --> 00:31:20,846 to actually prioritize, because , like you said, you could sit 558 00:31:20,865 --> 00:31:22,488 here and even in the 50% proactive stuff that you're 559 00:31:22,528 --> 00:31:23,890 trying to do, if you're throwing all your energy at a program 560 00:31:23,930 --> 00:31:27,374 that your employees don't feel like is a need, you're not going 561 00:31:27,374 --> 00:31:29,997 to move the needle as much as if you actually try to solve a 562 00:31:30,057 --> 00:31:33,240 problem that they have in their day-to-day work. 563 00:31:34,186 --> 00:31:37,647 Speaker 1: Great case study on that Near 2000,. 564 00:31:37,647 --> 00:31:40,717 We were owned by a German firm, the firm I was with. 565 00:31:40,717 --> 00:31:45,248 We were about at the time about 1,200 employees, and we were 566 00:31:45,307 --> 00:31:47,888 acquired the German parent. 567 00:31:47,888 --> 00:31:51,709 They wanted to exit their North American business, so they 568 00:31:51,729 --> 00:31:54,477 brought in a private equity firm and we partnered with them. 569 00:31:54,477 --> 00:31:57,614 So I became a management owner, because we all had to write 570 00:31:57,634 --> 00:32:01,113 checks too and the private equity folks wanted to come in 571 00:32:01,164 --> 00:32:01,767 with a bang. 572 00:32:01,886 --> 00:32:05,056 So they said Bob, what do you think of us doubling the 401k 573 00:32:05,096 --> 00:32:05,376 match? 574 00:32:05,376 --> 00:32:10,012 And you know the typical HR response might be oh, that's 575 00:32:10,053 --> 00:32:11,176 great news, let's do it. 576 00:32:11,176 --> 00:32:14,530 So I said well, you know that's going to cost us. 577 00:32:14,530 --> 00:32:19,326 You know I forget the amount, but let's just say you know that 578 00:32:19,326 --> 00:32:20,527 was going to be like a million dollars. 579 00:32:20,527 --> 00:32:22,627 I said, well, I don't really. 580 00:32:22,627 --> 00:32:27,352 I'm not hearing a lot of people tell us that our 401k match is 581 00:32:27,432 --> 00:32:28,152 not competitive. 582 00:32:28,152 --> 00:32:30,753 In fact, it's probably right at the baseline of competitiveness 583 00:32:30,753 --> 00:32:30,753 . 584 00:32:30,753 --> 00:32:33,496 Why don't we ask our employees what they think? 585 00:32:34,155 --> 00:32:38,019 So we actually did a pulse survey and overwhelming the 586 00:32:38,058 --> 00:32:39,640 response was training and development. 587 00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:41,401 Like it wasn't even close. 588 00:32:41,401 --> 00:32:43,442 We had over 1,000 comments. 589 00:32:43,442 --> 00:32:50,012 Now one person said can we have more 401k match dollars? 590 00:32:50,012 --> 00:32:50,934 So what I use? 591 00:32:50,934 --> 00:32:55,119 I took that and I said we could build a corporate university 592 00:32:55,599 --> 00:32:58,923 for a smaller amount than what you want to spend. 593 00:32:58,923 --> 00:33:01,172 Let's create a best-in-class corporate university. 594 00:33:01,172 --> 00:33:03,851 And that's what we did and it was a game changer. 595 00:33:03,851 --> 00:33:09,476 So we were all set to spend money to fix a need that we 596 00:33:09,576 --> 00:33:14,817 didn't have and we reallocated the funds to a need that we did 597 00:33:14,898 --> 00:33:15,220 have. 598 00:33:15,220 --> 00:33:18,551 That, you know, truly became an engagement game changer. 599 00:33:20,207 --> 00:33:24,913 Speaker 2: That's a great example and, I think, a great 600 00:33:24,952 --> 00:33:29,203 reminder that we need to have a baseline and have a consistent 601 00:33:29,263 --> 00:33:30,964 measurement style as well. 602 00:33:30,964 --> 00:33:36,996 I think I will put a plug in here, not necessarily to be 603 00:33:37,056 --> 00:33:41,353 serving you, Bob, specifically, but I do strongly believe you 604 00:33:41,393 --> 00:33:45,635 need to go to a professional survey company as opposed to 605 00:33:45,675 --> 00:33:48,026 trying to do all these surveys yourself, because there are. 606 00:33:48,026 --> 00:33:51,778 You know, survey design is one of those sciences that there's. 607 00:33:51,778 --> 00:33:55,770 You really need an expert to understand and then to, and then 608 00:33:55,770 --> 00:33:58,826 probably more importantly, to actually interpret that data in 609 00:33:58,865 --> 00:34:00,148 a way that's actionable, right? 610 00:34:00,148 --> 00:34:01,852 That's the other big issue, right? 611 00:34:02,634 --> 00:34:07,949 Speaker 1: And you know any survey provider and you know, I 612 00:34:07,989 --> 00:34:10,936 know all of them and they all provide great benchmarks, right? 613 00:34:10,936 --> 00:34:15,293 Because if you do a survey without external benchmarks, I'm 614 00:34:15,293 --> 00:34:18,849 going to tell you right now compensation is going to come in 615 00:34:18,849 --> 00:34:20,932 low and you're going to think you have a compensation issue. 616 00:34:20,932 --> 00:34:25,682 Now, as it stands in these inflationary times, you probably 617 00:34:25,682 --> 00:34:26,625 do have a compensation issue. 618 00:34:27,246 --> 00:34:28,211 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're probably legit. 619 00:34:28,724 --> 00:34:32,632 Speaker 1: Yeah, but typically you don't have a compensation 620 00:34:32,693 --> 00:34:36,306 issue and as soon as you benchmark it, you'll see that 621 00:34:36,467 --> 00:34:39,914 your compensation scores, based on engagement, could be in the 622 00:34:39,934 --> 00:34:41,885 top 90 percentile right. 623 00:34:41,885 --> 00:34:44,396 So you end up focusing on things that you shouldn't be 624 00:34:44,436 --> 00:34:47,507 focusing on, based on an artificial benchmark against 625 00:34:47,527 --> 00:34:47,989 yourself. 626 00:34:47,989 --> 00:34:50,677 So having the external benchmarks I think you know 627 00:34:50,985 --> 00:34:54,994 provides a very accurate prism on where you should be focusing 628 00:34:55,034 --> 00:34:57,007 your time and energy, Absolutely . 629 00:34:58,213 --> 00:34:59,641 Speaker 2: Well, this has been a great conversation. 630 00:34:59,641 --> 00:35:02,829 Unfortunately, we're coming to the end of our time together and 631 00:35:02,829 --> 00:35:06,077 I'm sure you're running off to another all-day workshop or 632 00:35:06,157 --> 00:35:09,070 something like that, so I want to shift gears and get into the 633 00:35:09,632 --> 00:35:11,496 Rebel HR flash-around questions. 634 00:35:11,496 --> 00:35:15,202 Question number one where does HR need to rebel? 635 00:35:17,465 --> 00:35:25,592 Speaker 1: I would rebel on the administrative perception side 636 00:35:25,652 --> 00:35:34,579 of things and, you know, be viewed organizationally as a 637 00:35:34,679 --> 00:35:39,822 driver of innovative thoughts inside your organization. 638 00:35:39,822 --> 00:35:43,467 You know, when you think of innovation you generally don't 639 00:35:43,507 --> 00:35:47,251 think of the HR department, right, but if you think of it, 640 00:35:47,445 --> 00:35:49,793 the HR department is the people department. 641 00:35:49,793 --> 00:35:53,735 Innovation is born from people. 642 00:35:53,735 --> 00:35:59,545 So how can you shift the perception organizationally that 643 00:35:59,545 --> 00:36:03,251 we are here providing administrative support and we 644 00:36:03,351 --> 00:36:08,759 are here providing cutting edge consultative insights to the 645 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:09,481 organization? 646 00:36:09,481 --> 00:36:12,313 That's what I would suggest. 647 00:36:12,875 --> 00:36:13,335 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 648 00:36:13,335 --> 00:36:16,432 Question number two who should we be listening to? 649 00:36:18,846 --> 00:36:21,090 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know I. 650 00:36:21,090 --> 00:36:22,755 So here's a plug for you. 651 00:36:22,755 --> 00:36:26,869 You know I love these disruptive folks that are doing 652 00:36:26,889 --> 00:36:31,605 the podcast and the conferences and and you know I think there's 653 00:36:31,605 --> 00:36:36,010 a whole new breed of disruption taking place. 654 00:36:36,010 --> 00:36:40,795 And you know, inside the function, you know people that I 655 00:36:40,795 --> 00:36:45,985 tend to kind of read and listen to. 656 00:36:45,985 --> 00:36:50,211 You know I love Malcolm Gladwell. 657 00:36:50,211 --> 00:36:56,646 You know I think he bridges personal and business in such a 658 00:36:56,706 --> 00:37:05,367 great way and I've spoken alongside Dan Pink and his work 659 00:37:05,427 --> 00:37:08,594 is always exceptional and it leads always with the people 660 00:37:08,675 --> 00:37:09,858 part of the business. 661 00:37:11,085 --> 00:37:16,338 Thomas Friedman is a brilliant mind. 662 00:37:16,338 --> 00:37:20,768 I think if you're not a global company today, you will be 663 00:37:20,847 --> 00:37:28,914 tomorrow, and his work, his legacy book the World is Flat, 664 00:37:29,293 --> 00:37:33,679 is probably the greatest business book you'll ever read. 665 00:37:33,679 --> 00:37:45,514 Innovation side the Innovator's Dilemma by Clayton Christensen 666 00:37:45,576 --> 00:37:48,588 from Harvard Business School is a must-read for every HR 667 00:37:48,610 --> 00:37:49,213 professional. 668 00:37:49,213 --> 00:37:56,728 Even if you read the Steve Jobs story, he'll reference it that 669 00:37:56,809 --> 00:37:57,853 it changed his life. 670 00:37:57,853 --> 00:38:07,146 And if you're trying to be disruptive, one of the ways of 671 00:38:07,208 --> 00:38:09,570 getting there is to be more innovative yourself, and Clayton 672 00:38:09,570 --> 00:38:12,114 Christensen's work is a cutting edge work in the work of 673 00:38:12,155 --> 00:38:12,596 innovation. 674 00:38:14,900 --> 00:38:15,360 Speaker 2: Absolutely. 675 00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,672 I'll put a couple of plugs out there. 676 00:38:17,672 --> 00:38:20,693 Bob's got a couple of great books as well. 677 00:38:28,865 --> 00:38:30,327 Speaker 1: I'll put a couple of plugs out there. 678 00:38:30,327 --> 00:38:33,688 Bob's got a couple of great books as well. 679 00:38:33,688 --> 00:38:35,510 I Engage your Personal Engagement Roadmap Is that. 680 00:38:35,510 --> 00:38:37,971 The most recent book Talks quite a bit about what happens 681 00:38:38,130 --> 00:38:42,572 at home influences you at work, and it was written for COVID 682 00:38:42,592 --> 00:38:47,036 times in some ways because of as we all found ourselves, you 683 00:38:47,076 --> 00:38:49,476 know, in hybrid workforces, right. 684 00:38:49,476 --> 00:38:51,757 So it's a terrific book. 685 00:38:51,757 --> 00:38:57,641 It's personal, it has 22 career rest stops, so it's not so much 686 00:38:57,641 --> 00:39:00,422 a book for leaders although leaders love it to do with their 687 00:39:00,422 --> 00:39:08,851 team but it's a wonderful book for an individual to figure out 688 00:39:08,871 --> 00:39:10,436 their own personal engagement and why it might be waning 689 00:39:10,456 --> 00:39:12,523 Absolutely, and then we'll also include in the show notes. 690 00:39:12,563 --> 00:39:14,889 Speaker 2: There's actually on Bob's website. 691 00:39:14,889 --> 00:39:18,275 There's actually a page dedicated to employee engagement 692 00:39:18,275 --> 00:39:18,577 books. 693 00:39:18,577 --> 00:39:20,329 There's some other recommendations out there. 694 00:39:20,329 --> 00:39:26,768 Of course, his books are available, so open up your 695 00:39:26,788 --> 00:39:28,012 podcast player and click in there and you'll be able to find 696 00:39:28,012 --> 00:39:28,112 that. 697 00:39:28,112 --> 00:39:29,838 So last question how can our listeners connect with you? 698 00:39:31,865 --> 00:39:34,731 Speaker 1: If you go on YouTube, you know some of the most 699 00:39:34,911 --> 00:39:38,338 watched videos in the world. 700 00:39:38,338 --> 00:39:41,371 You know who's seeking your boat. 701 00:39:41,371 --> 00:39:43,092 It's a video I did a few years back. 702 00:39:43,092 --> 00:39:44,711 It's at 1.3 million views. 703 00:39:44,711 --> 00:39:48,235 So there are some cool ways of connecting with me just on 704 00:39:48,275 --> 00:39:50,070 YouTube, and those are free ways , right. 705 00:39:50,070 --> 00:39:52,371 You know things that you can do and share the videos. 706 00:39:52,371 --> 00:39:53,313 They're four minutes long. 707 00:39:53,313 --> 00:39:57,373 Share them with your team A great way of leveraging 708 00:39:57,413 --> 00:39:59,317 engagement in a very inexpensive way. 709 00:39:59,317 --> 00:40:05,407 You can find me on employeeengagementcom pretty 710 00:40:05,527 --> 00:40:07,650 easy website, and you know there's a resource section. 711 00:40:07,650 --> 00:40:09,632 We post articles, best practices. 712 00:40:09,632 --> 00:40:15,440 You know a lot of free stuff and then there's ways of seeing 713 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:19,146 how you bring me in either to give a talk. 714 00:40:19,146 --> 00:40:23,217 We do workshops was I was joking, uh, with kyle before we 715 00:40:23,456 --> 00:40:25,409 uh went live that you know these . 716 00:40:25,409 --> 00:40:28,237 These zoom talks have been very powerful because it allows me 717 00:40:28,257 --> 00:40:34,273 to wear shorts as I give a talk, so that's a benefit. 718 00:40:35,956 --> 00:40:38,304 Speaker 2: yeah, and as far as you look professional to me, bob 719 00:40:38,304 --> 00:40:39,726 , so you know shorts or whatever . 720 00:40:39,726 --> 00:40:45,532 You know, we talked about that on our first podcast ever and I 721 00:40:45,592 --> 00:40:48,235 think we described it as it's like a reverse mullet, right, 722 00:40:48,275 --> 00:40:50,719 it's like there's business on top and a party on the bottom, 723 00:40:52,101 --> 00:40:52,862 party on Bob. 724 00:40:53,704 --> 00:40:54,706 Speaker 1: I love that. 725 00:40:54,706 --> 00:40:57,771 I'm going to steal that, but I will give you, I will give you 726 00:40:57,791 --> 00:40:59,034 credit that but I will give you credit. 727 00:40:59,394 --> 00:41:02,639 Speaker 2: I think I stole it from some video I saw somewhere, 728 00:41:02,639 --> 00:41:08,451 so I can't take credit, but I love the description. 729 00:41:08,451 --> 00:41:09,795 Bob, this has just been absolutely wonderful. 730 00:41:09,795 --> 00:41:11,039 Again, I know your time is very valuable. 731 00:41:11,039 --> 00:41:13,005 I appreciate you giving us a couple minutes here. 732 00:41:13,005 --> 00:41:16,074 I know that our listeners are going to take a lot away from 733 00:41:16,114 --> 00:41:16,275 this. 734 00:41:16,275 --> 00:41:18,512 We'll have all that information in the show notes. 735 00:41:18,512 --> 00:41:19,597 Check it out. 736 00:41:19,597 --> 00:41:21,485 Really appreciate the time, Bob . 737 00:41:22,248 --> 00:41:26,677 Speaker 1: Hey, you're both a great professional colleague as 738 00:41:26,697 --> 00:41:27,259 well as a friend. 739 00:41:27,259 --> 00:41:28,206 Thank you, Kyle. 740 00:41:28,206 --> 00:41:29,750 Thanks Bob, Take care. 741 00:41:31,452 --> 00:41:34,659 Speaker 2: All right, that does it for the Rebel HR Podcast. 742 00:41:34,659 --> 00:41:36,668 Big thank you to our guests. 743 00:41:36,668 --> 00:41:41,396 Follow us on Facebook at RebelHR Podcast, twitter at 744 00:41:41,476 --> 00:41:45,809 RebelHRGuy, or see our website at RebelHumanResourcescom. 745 00:41:45,809 --> 00:41:49,217 The views and opinions expressed by RebelHR Podcast are 746 00:41:49,217 --> 00:41:51,338 those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the 747 00:41:51,358 --> 00:41:55,248 official policy or position of any of the organizations that we 748 00:41:55,248 --> 00:41:55,688 represent. 749 00:41:55,688 --> 00:41:59,152 No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast.