WEBVTT 00:00:00.381 --> 00:00:03.471 You are stacking all those positive priming moments. 00:00:03.471 --> 00:00:19.928 Now, on the flip side, what people are doing usually in a workday is first they look at the news, which actually makes you 20% to 30% less productive, and then, when they say they have a bad day, I challenge whether they had a bad day, because what you had is you had a bad moment. 00:00:20.920 --> 00:00:22.809 This is the Rebel HR Podcast. 00:00:22.809 --> 00:00:30.114 If you're a professional looking for innovative, thought-provoking information in the world of human resources, this is the right podcast for you. 00:00:30.114 --> 00:00:40.162 Alright, Rebel Human Resources listener. 00:00:40.162 --> 00:00:42.587 I am extremely pumped up for today's show. 00:00:42.587 --> 00:00:49.235 We've got a great guest with some fascinating innovations that I think you should listen to. 00:00:49.235 --> 00:00:52.310 So I'd like to introduce you all to Jeff Harry. 00:00:52.310 --> 00:01:01.174 Jeff shows individuals and companies how to tap into their true selves to feel their happiest and most fulfilled, all by playing. 00:01:01.174 --> 00:01:14.588 He's got a bunch of awesome results behind his name Top 100 HR influencers by Engagedly Top HR influencers to watch by Bamboo HR. 00:01:14.588 --> 00:01:20.909 I don't have enough time to read them all, so I am going to let Jeff talk about some of that. 00:01:20.909 --> 00:01:21.933 Welcome to the show, Jeff. 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:23.436 Hey, thanks so much for having me. 00:01:23.462 --> 00:01:24.474 I'm super amped talk about some of that. 00:01:24.474 --> 00:01:26.135 So welcome to the show, jeff. 00:01:26.135 --> 00:01:26.995 Hey, thanks so much for having me. 00:01:26.995 --> 00:01:27.715 I'm super amped, me too. 00:01:27.715 --> 00:01:27.995 Me too. 00:01:27.995 --> 00:01:28.576 I think this is perfect. 00:01:28.576 --> 00:01:34.444 It's been an interesting year, 2020, and it'll be nice to focus on some fun. 00:01:34.444 --> 00:01:46.471 Yeah, with us today is Molly, our esteemed co-host, and she will be asking some questions as well, so let's get started All right. 00:01:46.471 --> 00:01:54.852 All right, jeff, so I will let you give our listeners a little bit of your background. 00:01:54.852 --> 00:01:55.935 Why don't you tell us about yourself? 00:01:56.340 --> 00:01:59.105 Sure, so I'll tell you my like Batman origin story. 00:01:59.105 --> 00:02:03.742 So do you remember the movie Big with Tom Hanks? 00:02:03.742 --> 00:02:04.745 You ever see that movie? 00:02:04.766 --> 00:02:05.509 Yeah, I love that movie. 00:02:05.509 --> 00:02:09.068 You put the thing in the game and then he grew up. 00:02:09.370 --> 00:02:09.590 Right. 00:02:09.590 --> 00:02:10.051 He grew up. 00:02:10.051 --> 00:02:20.336 So I saw that movie in third grade and Tom Hanks literally dances up on a piano and then they offer him a job to work in the toy industry. 00:02:20.336 --> 00:02:24.945 And as soon as I saw that I was like dude, that is exactly what I'm going to do with my life. 00:02:24.945 --> 00:02:37.603 So I started writing toy companies in third grade and I just did not stop, and they most of the time I just get rejection letters back because I think they thought I was older than I actually was. 00:02:37.603 --> 00:02:45.687 And a company just wrote me back one time and was like you should go into mechanical engineering, and I really should not have listened to them. 00:02:45.687 --> 00:02:46.370 But that's what I did. 00:02:46.370 --> 00:02:51.051 So I did that, graduated and then got in the toy industry. 00:02:51.051 --> 00:02:57.633 And I don't know if you've ever gotten what you've always wanted and then been so disappointed when you get there. 00:02:57.633 --> 00:03:00.388 But that's what was happening. 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:01.566 I was in a cubicle. 00:03:01.566 --> 00:03:04.243 The walls were padded, which you're like why are these walls padded? 00:03:04.243 --> 00:03:12.282 You know you know no fun, no play, no adults that are high-fiving, you know no toys, no kids. 00:03:12.282 --> 00:03:14.507 And I was like what am I doing here? 00:03:14.507 --> 00:03:34.856 And I remember having my little quarter-life crisis moving from New York to the Bay Area, san Francisco Bay Area, and then you know, piddling around for a little bit and then bumping into an organization that was teaching kids engineering with Lego and they basically were just playing for a living, paying 150 bucks a week like a joke of a job. 00:03:34.856 --> 00:03:37.883 But they were playing and I was like I want to get paid to play. 00:03:37.883 --> 00:03:45.810 So I stuck with them and we grew it into like the largest Lego inspired STEM organization, like in the US. 00:03:46.360 --> 00:03:51.131 But the way we did it was we just played, like we had no idea what we were doing. 00:03:51.131 --> 00:03:53.082 We made it up as we went along. 00:03:53.082 --> 00:03:55.131 We pick cities because we thought they were fun. 00:03:55.131 --> 00:03:57.240 We had no business plan, you know. 00:03:57.240 --> 00:03:58.903 We hired people because they were fun. 00:03:58.903 --> 00:04:01.891 We experimented, we failed miserably all the time. 00:04:01.891 --> 00:04:18.148 But we got so big in the Bay area At one point we were teaching 100,000 kids a year that Silicon Valley started to pay attention to us Facebook, google, adobe, netflix, all of them and they wanted us to run team building events. 00:04:18.148 --> 00:04:20.427 And we were like, yeah, of course we run team building events. 00:04:20.427 --> 00:04:23.127 Even though we didn't, we just said yes to everything, right. 00:04:23.841 --> 00:04:24.704 It's like, of course we do. 00:04:25.420 --> 00:04:26.543 Yes, we've been doing that for years. 00:04:26.543 --> 00:04:35.470 And then for the next, like eight, nine years I ran team building events for, like some of the top tech companies like in the world. 00:04:35.470 --> 00:04:42.880 But you know at the same time that they talked about innovation, disruption, agile, all those buzzwords, right. 00:04:42.880 --> 00:05:06.600 They had not created a safe, psychologically you know, comfortable work environment for people to play and take risks, and the reason why is they weren't having the harder conversations, like how to deal with toxicity at work, how to address racism at work, how to deal with office politics, how to have a hard conversation, how to get your staff and flow like all of that, how to deal with office politics, how to have a hard conversation, how to get your staff and flow like all of that. 00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:07.845 How to deal with your inner critic. 00:05:07.845 --> 00:05:18.600 So I created Rediscover your Play as a way of combining positive psychology and play to tackle some of a company's biggest, most challenging issues. 00:05:19.302 --> 00:05:24.732 So you got exactly what you wanted, and you hated every minute of it. 00:05:24.793 --> 00:05:26.295 Is that fair yeah? 00:05:27.581 --> 00:05:29.048 So I'm just recalling the movie. 00:05:29.048 --> 00:05:37.574 So basically, the people who were classified as the bad guys were like, just like what it's actually like to work in corporate America, right? 00:05:37.634 --> 00:05:45.742 exactly Right, because, like you never know right, like you always dream it's going to be amazing, right, like you, you always drink it's going to be amazing. 00:05:45.742 --> 00:05:47.906 And then you get to corporate America and you were like, where did all the? 00:05:47.906 --> 00:05:54.747 Why is everyone's energy just being sucked out of them, like your soul is being sucked out of you? 00:05:54.747 --> 00:05:58.473 I remember once I left a job in a dramatic way. 00:05:58.473 --> 00:06:01.026 There was this Kaiser Permanente, like hospital job. 00:06:01.026 --> 00:06:01.767 You know. 00:06:01.767 --> 00:06:04.281 I was like just doing admin work or something there. 00:06:04.281 --> 00:06:06.427 I quit right on the spot. 00:06:06.769 --> 00:06:14.329 And I remember, as I was leaving, I looked at a bunch of my former colleagues, former right, um, and they were like what are you doing? 00:06:14.329 --> 00:06:15.632 Where are you going? 00:06:15.632 --> 00:06:16.362 Why are you leaving? 00:06:16.362 --> 00:06:21.302 And I was like we just spoke last week about how you've been wanting to leave for five years. 00:06:21.302 --> 00:06:27.091 I'm just taking your advice and doing it instead of like dying a slow death here, you know. 00:06:27.091 --> 00:06:30.543 But they were like no, stay with us, stay in the suffering. 00:06:30.543 --> 00:06:33.644 And I'm like nah, dude, I'm good, I am good. 00:06:33.644 --> 00:06:36.850 And I think that was the last cubicle job yeah, I ever had. 00:06:38.401 --> 00:06:40.728 Good for you for taking that leap. 00:06:40.728 --> 00:06:45.706 Most people don't I know it's so sad. 00:06:46.387 --> 00:06:58.372 It really is, really is I just remember, you know, if we're talking movies here, the the one that resonates the most with me is office space oh, yes, but it's it's like I love that movie. 00:06:58.413 --> 00:07:01.882 I still love that movie I still watch clips every week once in a while. 00:07:01.882 --> 00:07:28.584 I'll just watch clips of of him when he, like uh, talks to the two hr guys that are letting everyone go and he's, like I do basically like 17 minutes of work a week middle management potential yes I'm not great at movie quotes or anything, but the movie that's sticking out to the time of year is office christmas party oh yeah, you're the crazy hr lady molly, for sure 00:07:29.045 --> 00:07:37.009 see, I need to watch that I haven't seen that when you're in hr, it's great that's a that you know that. 00:07:37.149 --> 00:07:43.884 I think that is probably the most um accurate depiction of an hr professional that I've seen on screen. 00:07:43.884 --> 00:07:48.853 Um, If you haven't seen it, if you're in HR it's required viewing Okay. 00:07:48.994 --> 00:07:49.836 Don't watch it with your kids. 00:07:49.836 --> 00:07:52.120 Let's just say, okay, I need to watch it. 00:07:52.180 --> 00:07:53.084 Molly, you describe it. 00:07:53.600 --> 00:07:54.925 Don't watch it with your kids. 00:07:55.487 --> 00:07:58.247 No, I heard it's quite raunchy. 00:07:58.247 --> 00:08:06.353 Very much so, but it's fun, which is great because this year, like people are doing it virtual, so we're not going to have as many of those issues. 00:08:07.540 --> 00:08:08.966 As long as everybody wears pants. 00:08:12.721 --> 00:08:13.723 That's asking a lot. 00:08:13.723 --> 00:08:14.786 That's asking a lot. 00:08:15.750 --> 00:08:19.408 Okay, jeff, so you had said you started doing team building events. 00:08:19.990 --> 00:08:20.091 Yeah. 00:08:20.259 --> 00:08:24.512 I know there's a lot of organizations that of course, they want to do a team building event. 00:08:24.512 --> 00:08:29.009 They're always looking for things, but I also feel like a lot of organizations get it wrong. 00:08:29.009 --> 00:08:32.645 Where and why do people get it wrong and what is your advice? 00:08:32.645 --> 00:08:34.049 What's your best team builder? 00:08:35.158 --> 00:08:35.340 Yeah. 00:08:35.340 --> 00:08:39.331 So I actually stopped doing like the stuff I now do. 00:08:39.331 --> 00:08:45.020 You know, I actually stopped doing team building events because I felt like they were they're just kind of like bowling Right. 00:08:45.020 --> 00:09:07.159 They're just kind of like bowling right, like they're like, hey, you feel good for just a little bit and then you, you know, then you go back to whatever you're doing, and I think I think where people get it wrong um, companies get it wrong is they bring some team building organization in and then they are thinking like afterwards, everything's going to just change, right, you know. 00:09:07.159 --> 00:09:23.125 And and the fact fact is, if you're not taking risks and trying to have hard conversations or trying to go somewhere with it, then it's just going to be something happy, like going to play pool or ping pong, which is totally fine and people connect that way as well, but you're not really going to go deep, deep right. 00:09:23.125 --> 00:09:29.254 So I think people have to adjust their expectations of what they actually expect from a team building event. 00:09:30.760 --> 00:09:36.654 Yeah, I actually I am not a big fan of like the let's do the one-off. 00:09:36.654 --> 00:09:38.119 Like trust falls in the office. 00:09:38.119 --> 00:09:38.740 Right, right. 00:09:38.740 --> 00:09:54.605 You know like every time I've tried to do something like that in my career, everybody has literally like they hear it and they're like ugh, yeah, why do people say that they do that because it's forced. 00:09:54.746 --> 00:09:55.850 Fun, right. 00:09:55.850 --> 00:10:04.053 Right, the whole idea of play, if you think about it, in a playground, a kid has the option to play or not play. 00:10:04.053 --> 00:10:06.629 They have the option to do whatever they want. 00:10:06.629 --> 00:10:08.399 They could just observe from the sidelines. 00:10:08.399 --> 00:10:21.671 But with, I think, a lot of team building events, you know, and a lot of times when, like the HR staff's, like we're going to, we're going to become a team, you know, like I know, we haven't talked at all the whole year, but now, this hour, we're going to all get along. 00:10:21.671 --> 00:10:28.900 It's just like dude. 00:10:28.900 --> 00:10:29.604 Where we're going to all get along. 00:10:29.604 --> 00:10:30.005 It's just like dude. 00:10:30.005 --> 00:10:30.509 This is just come on, man. 00:10:30.528 --> 00:10:37.849 I remember once running a team building event for a biomedical company that shall not be named and it was at a winery, and this is when I was still doing the Lego gig. 00:10:37.849 --> 00:10:46.488 And I remember, during the team building event, where they're all building something together, right, and then the boss turns to everyone. 00:10:46.488 --> 00:10:48.544 He goes get away, everyone, move back. 00:10:48.544 --> 00:11:00.866 I got this and he just moved like 20 VP executives that are like managing multimillion dollar, if not billion dollar deals, and it was just like everyone, move away. 00:11:00.866 --> 00:11:02.586 I'm going to work on this by myself. 00:11:02.586 --> 00:11:08.793 So 20 people who were at the winery just started drinking wine because they're like, well, I don't want to hang out with this guy. 00:11:08.793 --> 00:11:11.629 And then during the debrief, they were like what happened there? 00:11:11.629 --> 00:11:12.321 And he goes. 00:11:12.321 --> 00:11:22.826 Well, the reason why I had to do that was because I have a lot of experience with Lego, so that's why I had to step up and it was like, oh my gosh guys, this is it. 00:11:22.826 --> 00:11:26.822 Gosh guys, like this is it. 00:11:26.822 --> 00:11:27.484 This is the problem. 00:11:27.484 --> 00:11:28.144 I can't help you with this. 00:11:28.164 --> 00:11:28.566 I can't, I can't like. 00:11:28.566 --> 00:11:30.429 This is deep seated, so that was part of the reason why I started. 00:11:30.890 --> 00:11:32.583 Rediscover your Play, because I was like yo. 00:11:32.583 --> 00:11:34.432 We need to talk about toxicity at work. 00:11:34.432 --> 00:11:42.303 We need to talk about office politics, like we need to have that hard conversation because right now we're just tiptoeing around it and it sucks. 00:11:44.086 --> 00:11:47.773 The elephant, the room, yeah, so how do you? 00:11:47.773 --> 00:11:48.534 How do you do that? 00:11:49.823 --> 00:12:03.601 oh which which one talking about office politics or toxic people, because I can get into the toxic people how do you love me, a toxic person yeah give all the good stories you do get all the good stories. 00:12:03.662 --> 00:12:08.480 So here I'll go through, like the you know, because we go through a bunch of different steps. 00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:14.972 So I think you know, whenever I'm talking about toxic people, we have to first put it into context. 00:12:14.972 --> 00:12:22.187 Right, like I ran this workshop it's called Dealing with A-Holes at Work Through Play, like that literally is the name of the workshop. 00:12:22.187 --> 00:12:30.548 And I did it with my friend, gary Ware, and we never thought anyone would say yes to this. 00:12:30.548 --> 00:12:31.451 Right, like why would anyone say yes to it? 00:12:31.451 --> 00:12:34.903 But we applied to some of the top conferences, like like in the country, and then, and then they were like, yes, we need this. 00:12:34.903 --> 00:12:36.207 So then we were like, oh sweet. 00:12:36.207 --> 00:12:42.688 So then we like traveled to Australia to do it and we did it right before, you know, right before quarantine, quarantine. 00:12:42.688 --> 00:12:48.668 And while we were running it in australia, like people were both laughing and crying during the workshop. 00:12:48.668 --> 00:13:01.485 But the main reason they were doing that is because a lot of them did not realize that, that they, they thought they were the only ones, they thought that they were the only ones that left a job because of a toxic person. 00:13:01.485 --> 00:13:18.854 And then we shared, like this study done by Sherm about how, like I think October 2019, they did this study where $223 billion has been lost by fortune 500 companies alone just in the last five years due to toxic people. 00:13:18.854 --> 00:13:22.263 And these are only the companies that are willing to admit it. 00:13:22.263 --> 00:13:28.094 Right, so it must be even a larger amount of money, but 223 billion, fricking dollars. 00:13:28.094 --> 00:13:33.932 So it's just like, why are we letting toxic people, just like, run amok at our companies? 00:13:33.932 --> 00:13:41.750 Right, so, you know, when we run the workshop, we're like first, it's like listen, this is all about setting boundaries and like being very clear about them. 00:13:41.750 --> 00:13:46.562 So our first suggestion this is we go from easiest to hardest, right? 00:13:46.562 --> 00:13:55.028 So easiest is that toxic person is taking up a lot of time and meetings, right, they're sucking the energy, sucking the soul out of the meeting. 00:13:55.028 --> 00:13:57.341 They're talking 60 to 80% of the meeting. 00:13:57.341 --> 00:14:01.850 So I always recommend like listen, we got to start organizing, right? 00:14:01.850 --> 00:14:08.347 So, hey, kyle, molly, the next time you're speaking up and that guy cuts you off, I'm going to be like whoa, whoa, whoa, chad. 00:14:08.347 --> 00:14:12.951 Sorry, if your name's Chad, I'm sorry, but I'm going to use you as the a-hole in this example. 00:14:12.951 --> 00:14:15.701 Hey, chad, kyle was still sharing something. 00:14:15.701 --> 00:14:17.342 Can we hear what he has to say? 00:14:17.342 --> 00:14:34.312 Wait, can we hear more from Molly, because if Molly hasn't been able to speak up yet, you know, and and we start to occupy the meeting back, and this is something you do over the next three to six months, where you are slowly taking over right and not letting this person dominate the meeting. 00:14:34.312 --> 00:14:35.937 So that's the easiest one. 00:14:35.977 --> 00:14:51.794 The second one is actually confronting that toxic person like head on, and that's not confronting them and attacking their behavior, but you are or not attacking their behavior, but you are not attacking their character, but you are addressing their behavior and the impact that it's having. 00:14:51.794 --> 00:15:07.402 So I'd be like hey, chad, you know, when you cut off Molly, when she was in the middle of saying something, you know, not only were you communicating that you didn't want to hear from her, but you were also communicating to Kyle and myself and everyone else here that you didn't want to hear. 00:15:07.402 --> 00:15:10.010 What we had to say Is that the intent? 00:15:10.010 --> 00:15:10.841 Was that your intent? 00:15:10.841 --> 00:15:12.508 You know, because that's the impact you're having. 00:15:12.508 --> 00:15:24.592 And then just see, because a lot of toxic people are like engineers that just have bad communication skills and they might not know Right, but say, for example, they're like hey, man, f f you, I'll do whatever I want. 00:15:24.592 --> 00:15:25.474 My name's chad. 00:15:25.474 --> 00:15:29.311 Okay, all right, let's deal with it. 00:15:29.390 --> 00:15:46.802 So then the next thing obviously is like, not just approaching their supervisor or their supervisor supervisor, if they're you know a-holes but but when you approach them, approaching it from the the context of what impact they're having, it's just like listen, I know Chad is the brilliant jerk. 00:15:46.802 --> 00:15:52.721 He brings in $700,000 a year right In revenue, or whatever that case may be. 00:15:52.721 --> 00:15:57.993 Simon Sinek talks a lot about how the brilliant jerk is never wanted on the Navy SEALs. 00:15:57.993 --> 00:16:08.787 The Navy SEALs will never take the bravest person, they'll never take the most athletic or the smartest, because if they're the brilliant jerk, they're going to destroy the team. 00:16:08.787 --> 00:16:22.227 So when you say, hey, chad has been bringing in all these revenue, but he's also caused three people to quit, which actually has cost us a million dollars, we're actually losing $300,000 by keeping Chad. 00:16:22.808 --> 00:16:27.182 So can we address this person's behavior because he's causing this impact? 00:16:27.182 --> 00:16:42.730 And when you say it like that, then they really have a choice Like are we going to, you know, go with the values that we claim, we say we're doing, or are they going to be hypocritical at that point and and and support Chad? 00:16:42.730 --> 00:16:47.003 And if they support Chad, at that point, you know, maybe this is not the right place for you. 00:16:47.003 --> 00:17:05.771 But then the hardest way of dealing with a toxic person is you actually have to address your own inner Chad, your own inner toxic person, your own inner a-hole, like your own inner, you know, critic, right, because there's a reason why Chad triggers you. 00:17:05.972 --> 00:17:13.167 Maybe you think you're an imposter, maybe you think you shouldn't get paid as much as him, maybe you think you shouldn't be speaking up at work, right, or at a meeting. 00:17:13.167 --> 00:17:21.204 But if you're like, wait a minute, like no way dude, like Chad's an idiot, like I definitely should be his boss, I definitely should be paid double his salary. 00:17:21.204 --> 00:17:25.536 You know, I definitely am not an imposter, I kick ass at this job. 00:17:25.536 --> 00:17:33.586 And you actually believe that the next time Chad is super rude to you, you just turn to him and you're just like Chad don't ever speak to me in that way. 00:17:33.586 --> 00:17:37.762 And then, once they do that, it's just like oh, molly just stepped up to Chad. 00:17:37.762 --> 00:17:38.806 And then Kyle's like man. 00:17:38.986 --> 00:17:40.309 I'm going to step up to Chad. 00:17:40.309 --> 00:17:47.101 And then Jeff's like I'm stepping up to Chad too, I'm not going to tolerate this. 00:17:47.101 --> 00:17:48.540 And then, all of a sudden, everyone's stepping up to Chad and he has a choice. 00:17:48.540 --> 00:17:54.147 He either changes his behavior and gets his stuff together, his shit together, or he leaves. 00:17:54.147 --> 00:18:00.508 And that's what's happening, because you're sucking the energy out of that toxic person damn Chad. 00:18:01.536 --> 00:18:02.623 I know, molly. 00:18:02.623 --> 00:18:04.690 I have a question for you am I Chad? 00:18:07.701 --> 00:18:09.027 you do interrupt me quite a bit. 00:18:10.627 --> 00:18:11.194 I do interrupt. 00:18:11.194 --> 00:18:13.428 Maybe I need to be the one to shut up. 00:18:14.582 --> 00:18:14.987 No. 00:18:15.413 --> 00:18:16.782 We all got a little Chad in us maybe. 00:18:16.864 --> 00:18:18.167 We all got a little Chad in us. 00:18:19.779 --> 00:18:21.627 Sorry to any listener named Chad. 00:18:22.161 --> 00:18:31.001 Yeah, I'm so sorry, I actually wrestle with this a lot, like do you think Chad is toxic at the core, like most of the time? 00:18:31.001 --> 00:18:32.405 Can you change a Chad? 00:18:32.405 --> 00:18:34.652 Do they change you can? 00:18:35.361 --> 00:18:36.827 You can change a Chad. 00:18:36.827 --> 00:18:40.269 The question is is, how long are you willing to tolerate it? 00:18:40.269 --> 00:18:42.366 Right, I had a Chad at one of my jobs. 00:18:42.366 --> 00:18:44.046 He didn't change for five years. 00:18:44.046 --> 00:18:53.243 Like like he had to be reprimanded numerous times and it was about to the point where he was going to get fired and then he, he got help, you know. 00:18:53.243 --> 00:19:00.428 Then he like started seeing a therapist and addressing stuff, but like, if you're willing to put in that work, you know, or like setting that boundary. 00:19:00.428 --> 00:19:11.666 But I think also we all want to be the hero in our story, so we want ch Chad to be the villain and sometimes Chad isn't the villain, right, like sometimes he just like sucks at communicating. 00:19:12.126 --> 00:19:26.680 So we have to feel what is it like to be that person Like. 00:19:26.680 --> 00:19:30.130 Some people are like, ooh, I like it, and others are like, oh, get this off me. 00:19:30.130 --> 00:19:35.762 Like I never want to be this mean, right, but it's interesting just to put yourself in that person's shoes, right. 00:19:35.762 --> 00:19:41.503 And then and then we practice actually role-playing, like how would you have this hard conversation with this person? 00:19:41.503 --> 00:19:50.063 Because, guess what, it's not just going to be one conversation, it's going to be one over and over again for like over a year before you finally maybe make some inroads. 00:19:51.865 --> 00:19:53.308 I see this a lot with leaders. 00:19:53.308 --> 00:19:57.946 So they bring on like a new hire and they're just not performing where they need to perform. 00:19:57.946 --> 00:20:02.705 So leaders are instantly like, well, this guy doesn't give a crap, or this Chad is, he's not a good fit. 00:20:02.705 --> 00:20:13.448 Chad's being a jerk, instead of truly asking the hard questions to themselves or admitting that they can't get Chad where he needs to go. 00:20:13.448 --> 00:20:15.692 Right, right, you know. 00:20:17.034 --> 00:20:21.903 Right and I think about you know, just in the context of you know, personal experience. 00:20:21.903 --> 00:20:41.727 A lot of these people Chad's um are jerks because they're, they've been rewarded to exhibit that behavior either be aggressive and drive sales and be pushy, and they get the promotions and the raises and the recognition, yeah. 00:20:42.288 --> 00:20:49.440 So so that's where, like, you have to slowly change that culture by challenging that right. 00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:55.593 I know so many salespeople that are just like that and maybe that works in certain realms. 00:20:55.593 --> 00:20:58.114 But I remember talking to this one guy and he knew it. 00:20:58.114 --> 00:21:01.788 He was just like yeah, I know I'm an a-hole, I don't really care and I know it's just like. 00:21:01.788 --> 00:21:03.375 Well, do you know the impact you're having? 00:21:03.375 --> 00:21:12.607 He's like look, it works, and as long as it works, I'm going to keep doing it. 00:21:12.607 --> 00:21:14.933 So everyone else has to make it seem, make it so that it doesn't work anymore, right? 00:21:14.933 --> 00:21:20.314 Like they keep getting rewarded for that, they keep getting their bonuses, even though they get complaints all the time. 00:21:20.314 --> 00:21:22.605 So why should they change, right? 00:21:24.628 --> 00:21:35.580 So in HR, in the HR space, a lot of us sometimes not me, but there are a lot of HR individuals that have to deal with the Chad that is, let's say, the CEO. 00:21:36.221 --> 00:21:36.442 Yeah. 00:21:37.184 --> 00:21:42.272 Would your advice change or be any different for that HR individual? 00:21:44.316 --> 00:21:46.920 like what power dynamics exist. 00:21:46.920 --> 00:21:54.645 Because, I mean, we have to be careful sometimes, right, because sometimes we don't want to speak up to the person because we're like that person is just going to fire us. 00:21:54.645 --> 00:21:57.413 And that might be true or it might not be true. 00:21:57.413 --> 00:21:59.546 You have to, you have to gauge that for yourself. 00:21:59.546 --> 00:22:32.347 But if someone that is like a 10 year, like it's been part of HR for a while, and can represent the group and knows that you know they have cover, right, they have other VPs that are going to vouch for them, so that even if that CEO snaps and is like, oh, get rid of Kyle, because you know he challenged me, you know, you know you're not going to get removed, then it's worth challenging that CEO and then again approaching it from the standpoint of like, listen, ceo, you know our sales numbers right now. 00:22:32.347 --> 00:22:35.256 You know we hit 2 million. 00:22:35.256 --> 00:22:43.294 I have a way in which we could probably hit 2.5 or 3 million, which means your bonus is going to be much larger and the board of directors is going to love you. 00:22:43.294 --> 00:22:45.108 Do you want to know how to do that? 00:22:45.108 --> 00:22:47.836 And they're like, oh, why Stop being such a dick? 00:22:47.836 --> 00:22:55.316 Like hey, like you, you know this is super easy, like you know, and I even call the team leaders all the time. 00:22:55.316 --> 00:23:02.297 You know, especially in this virtual space, people are already 85 disengaged from work. 00:23:02.297 --> 00:23:06.367 They must be even more disengaged now that they're at home. 00:23:06.367 --> 00:23:09.211 Right, they might be even thinking about other jobs. 00:23:09.211 --> 00:23:19.032 But one quick thing you can do that would be amazing for your staff is to reach out to them one-on-one and be like hey, you know, I know this has been a tough year. 00:23:19.534 --> 00:23:22.391 What is the work that you love to do most at this job? 00:23:22.391 --> 00:23:24.618 Like the work where you forget about time. 00:23:24.618 --> 00:23:27.750 Marcus Buckingham refers to it as the red thread work. 00:23:27.750 --> 00:23:30.488 Gay Hendricks refers to it as your zone of genius. 00:23:30.488 --> 00:23:38.278 You know that work that is just you that, frankly, if no one paid you, you'd still do this work, you know, and you ask them that you know. 00:23:38.480 --> 00:23:40.246 Okay, sweet, you love talking to clients. 00:23:40.246 --> 00:23:41.308 You love connecting with people. 00:23:41.308 --> 00:23:43.796 What percentage of time do you currently do that? 00:23:43.796 --> 00:23:45.628 Oh, only 15%. 00:23:45.628 --> 00:24:05.877 Is there any way in which we can figure out how you can go from 15 to 20%, which maybe is like one to two extra hours, and by doing that you're actually helping them get into their flow work which actually has, you know, exponential results on productivity, because there's a ripple effect on all the other work that they're doing. 00:24:05.877 --> 00:24:09.909 And you do the other thing, which is really powerful, where you communicate. 00:24:09.909 --> 00:24:25.481 Hey, I see you, I hear you and I care about you as a human being, and this is why I want to figure out how you can do more of the work that makes you come alive, and when you do that, you're going to reduce your turnover. 00:24:25.481 --> 00:24:29.829 You're going to have people stay longer and then you're going to have people that are going to be more committed to you. 00:24:32.795 --> 00:24:34.217 Absolutely. 00:24:34.217 --> 00:24:37.288 I'm reflecting, and this is great content. 00:24:37.288 --> 00:24:51.151 I just remember earlier in my career, new HR professional, a lot of this stuff is so heavy and the feedback that I would get is a lot of this stuff is so heavy and the feedback that I would get is you know, have a little bit more fun. 00:24:51.151 --> 00:24:54.213 And I'd look at somebody and be like, but this isn't fun. 00:24:54.213 --> 00:24:56.875 I'm dealing with problem performers. 00:24:56.875 --> 00:25:04.021 People are mad I can't hire enough people, and even the ones I do don't stick around long enough to you know, make a difference. 00:25:04.021 --> 00:25:11.086 And you know it's it, it's it. 00:25:11.086 --> 00:25:12.923 It's really easy to lose sight of the, the fun stuff in in the in, in kind of the muck. 00:25:12.923 --> 00:25:13.946 So so what? 00:25:13.946 --> 00:25:23.617 What do you do when you're working with teams or when you're, when you're working through your process, to re-instill that sense of fun and enjoyment in work? 00:25:24.065 --> 00:25:24.144 I. 00:25:24.144 --> 00:25:27.234 I think you have to tie it back to your why right? 00:25:27.234 --> 00:25:28.730 Like, what are you doing there? 00:25:28.730 --> 00:25:31.634 Like, why did you start in HR in the first place? 00:25:31.634 --> 00:25:32.971 Like, let's figure that out. 00:25:32.971 --> 00:25:47.799 You know we run a workshop called your Future is when your Fun Is right, and part of the reason why I say that is, you know Stephen Johnson talks about you'll find the future where people are having the most fun. 00:25:47.799 --> 00:26:00.009 You'll find the future where people are having the most fun, and if you look at the organizations that are most resilient right now, that are thriving in 2020, tiktok, disney, hulu, netflix it's because people are having fun there. 00:26:00.009 --> 00:26:17.218 Even you know and I don't support Jeff Bezos at all, but you know, when he started Amazon, he was tackling some of the most interesting issues in the tech world and all the tech heads wanted to hang out with him because that was the most interesting place to be. 00:26:17.218 --> 00:26:23.979 So you have to think about that for you of just like, what are the way, what are the things that like, drive me right? 00:26:24.285 --> 00:26:29.537 So in our your Future is when your Fun Is workshop, we actually ask people what did you love to do as a kid? 00:26:29.537 --> 00:26:34.253 Right, and I do it with my friend, lauren, yee, and she goes. 00:26:34.253 --> 00:26:35.356 You know what I love to do as a kid. 00:26:35.356 --> 00:26:38.413 I love playing sardines, which is reverse hide-and-seek. 00:26:38.413 --> 00:26:39.395 It's such a fun game. 00:26:39.395 --> 00:26:42.946 Basically, somebody hides, everyone looks for that person. 00:26:42.946 --> 00:26:49.876 If you find that person that's hidden, you hide too and then you stack in like a pack of sardines until finally there's like eight people in a corner. 00:26:49.876 --> 00:26:57.826 One person's like where's everybody, and everyone else is like be quiet, don't say anything. 00:26:57.826 --> 00:26:59.509 You know, I've done this with adults. 00:26:59.509 --> 00:26:59.868 It's hilarious. 00:26:59.868 --> 00:27:00.851 We like all hid underneath a house, you know. 00:27:00.851 --> 00:27:01.992 So like it's great when you're a little tipsy too. 00:27:01.992 --> 00:27:04.036 Anyway, so I was like what is it that you love to do? 00:27:04.036 --> 00:27:04.455 What do you? 00:27:04.455 --> 00:27:06.599 What do you love, right, what do you love about sardines? 00:27:06.599 --> 00:27:12.875 And she was like I love that it's creative, I love that it's collaborative, I love that it has connection. 00:27:13.585 --> 00:27:26.318 And then we took those play values that she had and we were like what of your work that you do in a given day or in a given week has those aspects or has all of those aspects? 00:27:26.318 --> 00:27:35.057 So I would challenge your staff, or your, your staff or you, to like write down all the tasks, all the things that you do, and and figure out what is. 00:27:35.057 --> 00:27:45.369 What is it that is, is the the good stuff, the delicious stuff, right, and then start your day doing that work before you do anything else. 00:27:45.369 --> 00:27:59.799 Because when you do that like I start my day with a TikTok right, like I make a TikTok video that has no ROI, has no productive value, but it positively primes my day to see the day as play right. 00:27:59.799 --> 00:28:06.137 And then my friend Desiree taught me this trick of, like you ask this question how can it get any better than this? 00:28:06.137 --> 00:28:09.855 So, when something good happens, or like I start my day in a fun way and then I go, oh, how can it get any better than this? 00:28:09.855 --> 00:28:12.384 So, when something good happens, or like I start my day in a fun way and then I go, ooh, how can it get any better than this? 00:28:12.384 --> 00:28:18.817 Ooh, well then, I was on a podcast with this this guy, chris Lynn, and he did such a fricking, phenomenal interview. 00:28:18.817 --> 00:28:19.990 How can it get any better than this? 00:28:19.990 --> 00:28:24.909 I just got off the phone with a client of mine and inspired her to start making videos and take risks. 00:28:24.909 --> 00:28:26.211 Ooh, how can it get any better than this? 00:28:26.211 --> 00:28:30.659 Now Kyle and Molly and I are talking on the Rebel HR podcast. 00:28:30.659 --> 00:28:31.180 Let's go. 00:28:32.106 --> 00:28:35.952 And then you were stacking all those positive priming moments. 00:28:36.464 --> 00:28:49.893 Now, on the flip side, what people are doing usually in a workday is first they look at the news, which actually makes you 20 to 30% less productive, and then, when they say they have a bad day, I challenged whether they had a bad day. 00:28:50.306 --> 00:28:57.633 Because what you had is you had a bad moment and, based off of positive psychology thoughts, only last between nine seconds and 90 seconds. 00:28:57.633 --> 00:29:12.775 So you had a bad moment, and then you ruminated about that bad moment over and over again like a thousand times in your head, and then you primed your mind to look for the next bad moment and the next bad moment and the next bad moment until you made up a bad day. 00:29:12.775 --> 00:29:23.730 And it's really hard in HR because you get shit on all the time, like people are always throwing all the problems your way, so you're always feeling like you're getting all these bad moments. 00:29:23.730 --> 00:29:30.173 So by simply flipping it and being like you know Ooh, let me do something fun, how can it get any better than this? 00:29:30.173 --> 00:29:36.672 And being curious about how your day might go, that is how you can change your day and possibly change the way you work. 00:29:39.116 --> 00:29:41.271 Oh my gosh, I just had like a revelatory moment. 00:29:41.271 --> 00:29:42.490 It's like sweet. 00:29:42.490 --> 00:29:51.119 So I just heard, I heard that and I thought it's like when you get a new car and then you're driving and you see that same car everywhere now yeah. 00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:52.730 And you never noticed the car before? 00:29:54.872 --> 00:29:54.951 Am. 00:29:55.032 --> 00:30:11.147 I on the same page, right, that is exactly what your brain is doing all the time, because your brain is looking for patterns, right Like it's constantly looking for patterns to see whether there's danger or not danger that's what your prefrontal cortex, or inner critic, is doing. 00:30:11.147 --> 00:30:15.597 So when you prime your mind to look for good patterns, things happen. 00:30:15.597 --> 00:30:26.801 Here's another tip that's really cool at meetings you can actually positively prime a meeting by whoever starts the meeting, and this is before the meeting actually starts. 00:30:26.801 --> 00:30:29.633 Let's say the first people that join the virtual call. 00:30:29.633 --> 00:30:37.988 Let's say someone is like showing baby pictures or showing their baby or something happy, or they're telling about some happy story that happened or some fun thing they did during the weekend. 00:30:37.988 --> 00:30:42.926 You have now primed the meeting to be positive, so the meeting is going to be more productive. 00:30:42.926 --> 00:30:56.688 But if the first people on the call were complaining before anyone joins, productivity you know the meeting goes really badly, drops dramatically so, and you don't even have to be the leader of the meeting, it's just the first person to speak. 00:30:57.971 --> 00:31:02.439 So so should we just ban negative um conversations and meetings? 00:31:02.439 --> 00:31:02.986 Is that or the idea? 00:31:02.986 --> 00:31:03.165 You know? 00:31:03.165 --> 00:31:03.386 Why are we? 00:31:03.406 --> 00:31:03.728 complaining. 00:31:03.728 --> 00:31:07.115 Are we complaining just to complain Because like that's what we do here, or are we complaining? 00:31:07.115 --> 00:31:10.730 Are we complaining just to complain Because, like that's what we do here? 00:31:10.730 --> 00:31:14.545 Or are we complaining with the idea of, like trying to solve a problem. 00:31:14.545 --> 00:31:26.528 Like you have had friends right that are that are complaining and you're like oh, you've said this so many times Like you just want to tell them, like dude, just deal with it already, break up with that person or whatever. 00:31:26.528 --> 00:31:28.353 Just you know, or whatever. 00:31:28.353 --> 00:31:31.346 But sometimes people just want to complain for complaint's sake. 00:31:31.346 --> 00:31:38.530 So it's cool if you say that like, hey, I just want to word vomit right now and I just want to complain Awesome. 00:31:38.530 --> 00:31:54.615 But at some point then be like, okay, we're going to allow people to complain, but then yo, now we got to actually address, let's actually figure out some solutions to this instead of just bsing around these problems so how do you address the, the people? 00:31:54.635 --> 00:32:06.031 because I guarantee you there's some people in the audience sitting here thinking, yeah, this sounds good, uh, this, you know this guy sounds cool and you know this is a fun premise, right, but how this? 00:32:06.031 --> 00:32:12.681 This sounds a little bit fuzzy and kind of like one of these HR initiatives. 00:32:12.681 --> 00:32:20.678 How do you address those people that are coming from a context of work sucks, deal with it. 00:32:21.420 --> 00:32:22.361 Yeah, sure, yeah. 00:32:22.361 --> 00:32:29.617 So let's talk about examples of success, right, like? 00:32:29.617 --> 00:32:35.986 Let's take, for example, google. 00:32:35.986 --> 00:32:44.808 You know, with their 20% rule, they gave their staff a fifth of their time to, uh, pursue things that interest them as long as it benefits the organization from that, from that um initiative. 00:32:44.808 --> 00:32:47.614 That is where Google meet was created. 00:32:47.614 --> 00:32:50.298 That is where Gmail was created. 00:32:50.298 --> 00:32:58.538 So many of the billion-dollar ventures that Google did were because they allowed their staff to play. 00:32:58.865 --> 00:33:07.672 Now you, as a smaller organization, can't give your staff a fifth of the time, but you can find an hour to give them an extra hour. 00:33:07.672 --> 00:33:11.949 Just see, don't believe me, let's experiment with it, right, you know? 00:33:11.949 --> 00:33:16.077 Look at Tony Hsieh that ran Zappos, like us, such a huge loss. 00:33:16.077 --> 00:33:24.165 That dude would pay people three grand to leave his organization, like they would be there for a month. 00:33:24.165 --> 00:33:35.719 And he's like, you know, if you don't like the culture here, because we are just super nerdy and we we actually are, you know how they always say, like, be whoever you want to be, be your authentic self, but then they don't follow through with it. 00:33:35.719 --> 00:33:40.815 You know he actually allowed people to show up however they wanted to show up, right, you know? 00:33:40.815 --> 00:33:47.618 Blue hair and all, and then after a month you'd be like I'm going to give you $3,000 to leave, do you want to leave? 00:33:47.618 --> 00:33:52.381 And then people actually stayed if they were really committed. 00:33:52.721 --> 00:34:02.663 So there's many examples of what fun actually can do for the organization, because think about the organizations that are not having fun. 00:34:02.663 --> 00:34:20.309 There was an organization not too long ago that was super stiff, that heard these ideas and were like, oh you know, I just heard about this really small organization, small company that is selling or send mailing dvds to people, like, can you believe that? 00:34:20.309 --> 00:34:26.153 And then they're now talking about, like you know, you can download a movie or watch it on your computer. 00:34:26.153 --> 00:34:27.438 That that's so dumb, right? 00:34:27.438 --> 00:34:28.523 Yo guess what? 00:34:28.523 --> 00:34:29.847 Blockbuster is gone now. 00:34:30.027 --> 00:34:53.150 Because they were stiff, because they were like, because they weren't really willing to adapt or be resilient and, frankly, a lot of staff don't want to go back to normal, right, you know there's going to be a drastic new normal where we can bring more humanity to work, because right now, 85% of people are freaking, disengaged at work. 00:34:53.150 --> 00:34:59.849 People can only focus, I think, for about two hours and 53 minutes of an eight-hour workday. 00:34:59.849 --> 00:35:09.916 So, knowing this, knowing that all these studies communicate this, why would it be focused on trying to get them to do the best work that they want to do. 00:35:09.916 --> 00:35:14.396 That actually will produce the most productivity for the organization. 00:35:15.306 --> 00:35:29.695 One thing I hear a lot of is organizations say yeah, that's great for these companies that have the money or the build outs to create a fun space, right, but we are an old a building still in cubicles. 00:35:29.695 --> 00:35:31.699 How do you? 00:35:31.699 --> 00:35:38.257 You have to have the space to cultivate, play and kind of in the same realm, like now that we're all in a virtual world. 00:35:38.257 --> 00:35:39.306 How has that shifted? 00:35:40.969 --> 00:35:46.146 So I think in the virtual world this is where there's a lot of experimentation, right? 00:35:46.146 --> 00:35:55.036 You know, even if you can't move like the this really old organization has been around for a hundred years you can have an influence on your team. 00:35:55.036 --> 00:35:57.748 If you have any staff, you can start there. 00:35:57.748 --> 00:36:18.527 You know I think it was Sinek, who was Simon Sinek who was talking about it where, at this really bad organization, there was one team that was doing really innovative, creative things, and then people wanted to get part of that team, and then leaders, a lot of VPs, were like what's happening with that team? 00:36:18.527 --> 00:36:21.737 Why are they producing at such an exponential rate? 00:36:21.737 --> 00:36:24.956 And then they started to adopt some of those practices. 00:36:25.317 --> 00:36:37.733 So you need to focus on what is within your circle of influence, right, your circle of control, and instead of thinking like, oh, I got to change this entire organization, I got to change how the CEO approaches it, just do it for yourself. 00:36:37.733 --> 00:36:41.871 First, identify what are the fun things that I want to do for me, awesome, okay. 00:36:41.871 --> 00:36:46.153 What are the fun things I want to do for my staff, sweet, that make them come most alive? 00:36:46.153 --> 00:36:53.396 You know, how can, how can we take a problem that we always have and instead of doing it in the mundane way. 00:36:53.396 --> 00:36:57.710 You know, let's figure out a more playful, creative way of doing it. 00:36:57.989 --> 00:37:08.990 You know, one of the worst brainstorming sessions you can do is to have people go into a box room, you know, sit at a box table and be like you have an hour, come up with your best ideas. 00:37:08.990 --> 00:37:13.380 Like, let's think, let's rethink how we're going to do a brainstorming meeting. 00:37:13.380 --> 00:37:22.757 You know, maybe all of you are on your phone and you're all walking while you're on your phone and talking, like, figure, try out different ways of positively prime the meeting. 00:37:22.757 --> 00:37:32.686 Like, just keep experimenting, because I think the biggest problem we have is have is we lack hope and we're super pessimistic. 00:37:32.686 --> 00:37:35.514 So we're like, yeah, it's never going to work here. 00:37:35.514 --> 00:37:37.827 Well, maybe it won't or maybe it will. 00:37:37.827 --> 00:37:40.735 Why don't we try it and just see what happens? 00:37:42.126 --> 00:37:58.769 So I think one of the interesting things is, as I'm reflecting on some of this advice is I'm thinking about your career path and you strike me as an individual that you're going to find happiness wherever you are, and if you can't, you're not going to stick around. 00:37:58.931 --> 00:37:59.090 No. 00:37:59.425 --> 00:38:09.536 And I think about so many people that I know who do stick around and and just wallow in the misery and don't know how to get out of it. 00:38:09.536 --> 00:38:19.829 So so when we have those employees that we know are just like they hate their job, they're totally in the wrong job, but they're effective, they get it done. 00:38:22.420 --> 00:38:23.483