1 00:00:03,024 --> 00:00:06,028 Speaker 2: This is the Rebel HR Podcast, the podcast about all 2 00:00:06,149 --> 00:00:08,131 things innovation in the people's space. 3 00:00:08,131 --> 00:00:09,614 I'm Kyle Rode. 4 00:00:09,614 --> 00:00:10,595 Let's start the show. 5 00:00:10,595 --> 00:00:16,602 Welcome back HR community. 6 00:00:16,602 --> 00:00:20,306 Thrilled to have this conversation today With us. 7 00:00:20,306 --> 00:00:21,827 We have Christy Smith. 8 00:00:21,827 --> 00:00:26,193 Christy is the founder of the Humanity Studio, a leadership 9 00:00:26,254 --> 00:00:31,146 advisory firm, and author of the book that is coming out in the 10 00:00:31,185 --> 00:00:34,432 very, very near future Embrace the Power of Human-Powered 11 00:00:34,500 --> 00:00:38,412 Leadership with her book Essential how Distributed Teams, 12 00:00:38,412 --> 00:00:42,244 generative AI and Global Shifts Are Creating a New 13 00:00:42,947 --> 00:00:44,652 Human-Powered Leadership. 14 00:00:44,652 --> 00:00:48,049 Christy wrote that book with Kelly Monaghan, phd. 15 00:00:48,049 --> 00:00:49,765 Christy, thank you so much for joining us. 16 00:00:50,307 --> 00:00:51,149 Speaker 1: Thanks for having me. 17 00:00:52,381 --> 00:00:54,289 Speaker 2: Well, extremely excited to have you. 18 00:00:54,289 --> 00:00:59,152 As we were kind of doing the pre-meeting before I hit record, 19 00:00:59,152 --> 00:01:02,814 I was telling you that this book just hits so many of these 20 00:01:03,357 --> 00:01:06,745 topics that I think are so incredibly critical for so many 21 00:01:06,766 --> 00:01:10,513 of us in the HR community, and I'm really excited for the book 22 00:01:10,953 --> 00:01:11,373 to come out. 23 00:01:11,373 --> 00:01:12,240 I'm curious. 24 00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,390 My first question for you is what motivated you to write a 25 00:01:16,549 --> 00:01:18,453 book on these topics? 26 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:23,391 Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, many, many years of really having the 27 00:01:23,432 --> 00:01:27,962 privilege to serve clients in the C-suite you know, minus two, 28 00:01:27,962 --> 00:01:35,602 three in organizations and your colleagues in HR and really 29 00:01:35,683 --> 00:01:40,975 seeing the shift, especially now and since the pandemic of 30 00:01:41,137 --> 00:01:45,728 what's required of leaders and what the relationship with 31 00:01:45,789 --> 00:01:49,126 employees are, employees' relationship with organizations 32 00:01:49,206 --> 00:01:52,542 and how those drastically have shifted and the expectations 33 00:01:52,602 --> 00:01:53,123 have shifted. 34 00:01:53,123 --> 00:01:57,816 So I was excited to dig in and look at those shifts and 35 00:01:58,759 --> 00:02:00,022 hopefully provide some answers. 36 00:02:01,584 --> 00:02:05,450 Speaker 2: Well, I am waiting these answers as well because I 37 00:02:05,469 --> 00:02:06,852 got a lot of questions. 38 00:02:07,313 --> 00:02:08,014 Speaker 1: I bet yeah. 39 00:02:08,715 --> 00:02:09,014 Speaker 2: I got. 40 00:02:09,034 --> 00:02:15,949 Yeah, I mean, there's so much here, right, and I think you 41 00:02:15,968 --> 00:02:18,493 know there's a lot of conversation around this stuff, 42 00:02:19,882 --> 00:02:23,824 but it's a really, really big question and I think COVID 43 00:02:23,844 --> 00:02:28,048 accelerated this, right, but but this was always kind of where 44 00:02:28,068 --> 00:02:31,525 we were marching towards anyways as a society, you know, as as 45 00:02:31,985 --> 00:02:37,352 virtual work became more more relevant, generative AI has, you 46 00:02:37,352 --> 00:02:38,939 know, I mean that's been around for a long time. 47 00:02:39,060 --> 00:02:41,407 Now it's actually to a point where we're seeing it more 48 00:02:41,427 --> 00:02:45,379 incorporated in the workplace, you know, and the globalization 49 00:02:45,760 --> 00:02:50,289 and distribution of employees, you know, is kind of a natural 50 00:02:50,330 --> 00:02:51,413 evolution of our economy. 51 00:02:51,413 --> 00:02:55,989 So, you know, these are all very logical shifts, but we 52 00:02:56,008 --> 00:02:58,621 don't necessarily have the tools to deal with them yet. 53 00:02:58,621 --> 00:03:02,586 Or, certainly, as we look at, like, our leadership development 54 00:03:02,586 --> 00:03:07,435 programs, they're still kind of targeted towards in-person 55 00:03:07,474 --> 00:03:11,205 leaders and you know, it's kind of like a lot of this leadership 56 00:03:11,205 --> 00:03:13,569 stuff is basically the same stuff that's been around since 57 00:03:13,590 --> 00:03:15,133 the 50s, 60s and 70s. 58 00:03:15,133 --> 00:03:19,564 So I'm curious, as you think about this, this challenge, what 59 00:03:19,564 --> 00:03:22,448 are, what are some of these areas where you feel like we 60 00:03:22,489 --> 00:03:27,435 need to, we need to broadly focus on adjusting the way that 61 00:03:27,474 --> 00:03:27,895 we lead? 62 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:32,819 Speaker 1: Well, I think I think first is a is a mindset shift, 63 00:03:33,020 --> 00:03:36,828 right, I think that you know, as you say, some of the shifts 64 00:03:36,929 --> 00:03:41,603 that are occurring may be logical, right, but the fact 65 00:03:41,663 --> 00:03:47,013 that they're happening in such a compressed way and it's such 66 00:03:47,152 --> 00:03:52,429 volume, right, I think, adds a layer of complexity both for 67 00:03:52,489 --> 00:03:56,000 leaders and employees to kind of digest this, right. 68 00:03:56,000 --> 00:04:01,326 So we're not just talking about the, the direct impacts on an 69 00:04:01,426 --> 00:04:06,433 organization's ability to grow or to globalize, or to develop 70 00:04:06,514 --> 00:04:09,102 product or to embrace technology . 71 00:04:09,102 --> 00:04:15,132 We're talking about we're living in a polarized society 72 00:04:15,893 --> 00:04:16,654 around the globe. 73 00:04:16,654 --> 00:04:20,745 We are dealing with wars on multiple fronts. 74 00:04:20,745 --> 00:04:25,291 We're dealing with people who are trying to take care of their 75 00:04:25,291 --> 00:04:30,605 children and their elders right , and there are not in many 76 00:04:30,665 --> 00:04:34,552 countries, this included those services that allow us to do 77 00:04:34,612 --> 00:04:37,843 this and go work right in an affordable way. 78 00:04:37,843 --> 00:04:43,208 And so you know, we can't just look at what are the 79 00:04:43,367 --> 00:04:44,889 organizational impacts. 80 00:04:44,889 --> 00:04:50,434 This is really a socioeconomic and political world that we live 81 00:04:50,434 --> 00:04:53,357 in that are impacting employees as they cross the threshold of 82 00:04:53,416 --> 00:04:53,637 work. 83 00:04:54,220 --> 00:05:00,653 So I think that leaders are very , very, very in tuned to this, 84 00:05:08,581 --> 00:05:08,880 to this, right. 85 00:05:08,880 --> 00:05:10,244 If you look at what leaders came out of Davos last year 86 00:05:10,264 --> 00:05:12,348 talking about, it was the global unrest this year. 87 00:05:12,348 --> 00:05:15,353 They're talking about a lot about the global unrest and 88 00:05:15,413 --> 00:05:21,927 culture and, as you say, how do we motivate, keep a workforce 89 00:05:23,088 --> 00:05:26,875 and engage a workforce where trust and engagement scores are 90 00:05:26,894 --> 00:05:29,122 the lowest that they've ever been, right? 91 00:05:29,122 --> 00:05:35,932 So this all demands a different kind of leader, not one that 92 00:05:36,053 --> 00:05:41,447 just has a fiduciary responsibility of run a P&L, but 93 00:05:41,447 --> 00:05:51,382 one that is A a global citizen now P&L, but one that is A a 94 00:05:51,423 --> 00:05:53,329 global citizen now and B needs to care for their employees in a 95 00:05:53,329 --> 00:05:55,798 fundamentally different way and engage their employees in a 96 00:05:55,817 --> 00:05:57,581 different way, absolutely. 97 00:05:58,702 --> 00:06:04,149 Speaker 2: I think it's fascinating to me the broad 98 00:06:04,370 --> 00:06:08,014 impact on engagement scores here over the last few years where 99 00:06:08,134 --> 00:06:10,184 you know we actually everybody assumed that they would go on 100 00:06:10,204 --> 00:06:14,624 the in the basement right when, you know, the pandemic hit and 101 00:06:14,644 --> 00:06:17,430 they actually went up a little bit but then ever since then 102 00:06:17,451 --> 00:06:21,146 they've just, they've just it's been a downward spiral like a 103 00:06:21,208 --> 00:06:26,319 flywheel of doom, and especially globally, when you step outside 104 00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:30,887 of the US they're lower right. 105 00:06:30,887 --> 00:06:35,093 The engagement index scores continue to kind of sink. 106 00:06:35,093 --> 00:06:37,928 What do you attribute that to in your research? 107 00:06:38,511 --> 00:06:40,660 Speaker 1: Well, I think that there are a couple of things, 108 00:06:40,759 --> 00:06:45,711 but let's talk about that in context that low employee 109 00:06:45,750 --> 00:06:48,824 engagement scores and productivity scores are costing 110 00:06:49,043 --> 00:06:51,548 us $8.8 trillion a year. 111 00:06:51,548 --> 00:06:55,721 Now, that's equivalent to Microsoft, amazon and Apple 112 00:06:55,802 --> 00:06:56,262 together. 113 00:06:56,262 --> 00:06:58,245 Think about that. 114 00:06:58,245 --> 00:07:03,512 The strain on our economy as a result of those low engagement 115 00:07:03,713 --> 00:07:08,180 scores and lost productivity is really significant. 116 00:07:08,180 --> 00:07:13,509 I attribute it to your question to a couple of things. 117 00:07:13,509 --> 00:07:21,665 One is we're asking employees to learn technologies and to 118 00:07:21,846 --> 00:07:28,915 change processes and structures without any help right. 119 00:07:28,915 --> 00:07:31,346 Our learning and development, investment and learning 120 00:07:31,406 --> 00:07:32,370 development has gone down. 121 00:07:32,370 --> 00:07:36,930 Secondly, we are not our insides aren't matching our 122 00:07:37,031 --> 00:07:37,411 outsides. 123 00:07:37,519 --> 00:07:41,132 When we were writing the book, we were looking at not only the 124 00:07:41,173 --> 00:07:46,288 realities of technology and AI and you know the change and 125 00:07:46,389 --> 00:07:47,432 shift in leadership. 126 00:07:48,000 --> 00:07:51,928 We wanted to answer the question of you know what do employees 127 00:07:52,269 --> 00:07:56,144 require of their leaders, and they were very clear on four 128 00:07:56,204 --> 00:08:00,173 things Purpose, make sure your insides match your outsides. 129 00:08:00,173 --> 00:08:05,211 Live up to your values, live up to the purpose statements that 130 00:08:05,350 --> 00:08:06,312 you are talking about. 131 00:08:06,312 --> 00:08:10,725 The second is agency, and this is to the point that we were 132 00:08:10,745 --> 00:08:13,374 talking before we went online. 133 00:08:13,374 --> 00:08:17,906 Is you know this notion of distributed work, working when, 134 00:08:18,007 --> 00:08:24,648 where and how I want, and you know making sure that my work 135 00:08:24,687 --> 00:08:29,533 fits into my life right Agency and defining myself in the way 136 00:08:29,552 --> 00:08:32,785 that I want to define myself, not being defined by a category 137 00:08:32,985 --> 00:08:34,530 created by the organization. 138 00:08:34,530 --> 00:08:41,230 Wellness is the third area that the expectation of employees 139 00:08:41,312 --> 00:08:42,374 have of their employees. 140 00:08:42,374 --> 00:08:47,581 Employers are to make sure that their employers provide them 141 00:08:47,861 --> 00:08:51,611 with wellness, not only in mental health or health 142 00:08:51,753 --> 00:08:56,504 preventative health but also financial health benefits, those 143 00:08:56,504 --> 00:08:57,086 kinds of things. 144 00:08:57,086 --> 00:09:00,981 And then, lastly, connection create areas and opportunities 145 00:09:01,123 --> 00:09:02,485 for employees to connect. 146 00:09:06,652 --> 00:09:07,232 Speaker 2: Absolutely so. 147 00:09:07,232 --> 00:09:10,345 I want to dig into kind of each one of these, but before I do 148 00:09:11,248 --> 00:09:11,850 I'm curious. 149 00:09:11,850 --> 00:09:15,380 You know, I've heard this a lot , especially over the last few 150 00:09:15,441 --> 00:09:19,931 years, and a lot of times it's from employees who are maybe 151 00:09:19,971 --> 00:09:22,543 more tenured or used to doing things a certain way. 152 00:09:22,543 --> 00:09:27,844 It's like it's like this, this the speed of change continues to 153 00:09:27,844 --> 00:09:31,591 to accelerate, and I think there's a, there's a lot of at 154 00:09:31,631 --> 00:09:32,660 least in my organization. 155 00:09:32,660 --> 00:09:36,230 We see a lot of organizational stress because of that. 156 00:09:36,230 --> 00:09:38,000 It's like, oh my gosh, when are we going to catch up? 157 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,144 You know, when are we going to catch up to this change? 158 00:09:40,144 --> 00:09:41,807 When are we going to get to catch our breath? 159 00:09:41,807 --> 00:09:45,653 But broadly, I hear that, you know, I kind of hear that in 160 00:09:45,692 --> 00:09:49,327 society too, right, it's like, if you like, there's just 161 00:09:49,347 --> 00:09:55,846 there's so much, and so would you attribute that feeling to 162 00:09:56,147 --> 00:10:01,883 really a lack of adhering to these four things and supporting 163 00:10:01,883 --> 00:10:06,111 employees along the way, as because the rate of change is 164 00:10:06,172 --> 00:10:09,427 accelerating, right, I mean, it's just naturally going to 165 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:12,910 with some of these societal and technological changes. 166 00:10:13,460 --> 00:10:14,504 Speaker 1: Yeah, without a doubt . 167 00:10:14,504 --> 00:10:16,567 You know, I think that there are a couple of things. 168 00:10:16,567 --> 00:10:20,225 Yes, I would say that these four areas that we examine in 169 00:10:20,245 --> 00:10:28,038 the book are completely related to the ability for employees and 170 00:10:28,038 --> 00:10:31,326 leaders themselves to be resilient right through the 171 00:10:31,365 --> 00:10:32,249 process of change. 172 00:10:32,249 --> 00:10:33,631 So that's one. 173 00:10:33,631 --> 00:10:35,307 Two is change is constant. 174 00:10:35,307 --> 00:10:40,735 You know, I'm just that old that I remember, you know, early 175 00:10:40,735 --> 00:10:44,153 in my career as a consultant, where we were doing change 176 00:10:44,232 --> 00:10:47,703 management programs for organizations and, frankly, 177 00:10:48,485 --> 00:10:50,769 consultancies are still doing that today. 178 00:10:51,711 --> 00:10:58,067 What we have not done is build the muscle for change within the 179 00:10:58,067 --> 00:10:58,948 design of work. 180 00:10:58,948 --> 00:11:01,092 Work should be dynamic. 181 00:11:01,092 --> 00:11:03,485 You know we have talked about things like agility, but we 182 00:11:03,505 --> 00:11:04,572 haven't prepared employees for what should be dynamic. 183 00:11:04,572 --> 00:11:05,717 You know we have talked about things like agility, but we 184 00:11:05,738 --> 00:11:10,148 haven't prepared employees for what should be constant. 185 00:11:10,148 --> 00:11:17,022 Change right and plan for that, not only in processes but also 186 00:11:17,221 --> 00:11:18,624 in terms of time. 187 00:11:18,624 --> 00:11:23,211 When you are going through a change, it requires your leader 188 00:11:24,352 --> 00:11:26,195 and your team to spend more time together. 189 00:11:26,195 --> 00:11:30,333 What we see in organizations today is we're going to go 190 00:11:30,375 --> 00:11:37,190 through this transformation and saddle up and just do it Rather 191 00:11:37,269 --> 00:11:43,765 than building the vision for it, what they can expect of it, how 192 00:11:43,765 --> 00:11:46,932 their work will change, how they're going to be developed 193 00:11:46,993 --> 00:11:51,269 with regards to their own skills and capabilities and how. 194 00:11:51,269 --> 00:11:51,909 You know. 195 00:11:51,909 --> 00:11:56,065 What does the outcome look like for you, your team and everyone 196 00:11:56,065 --> 00:11:59,432 else, and that, I think, is what is lacking. 197 00:11:59,432 --> 00:12:05,298 It's not that change is, you know, hard, it's just we don't 198 00:12:05,458 --> 00:12:08,046 know how to talk about it and plan for it in organizations. 199 00:12:10,216 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, I totally agree and I think you know I like the 200 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:19,136 phrase that change is the only constant right Because it's, you 201 00:12:19,136 --> 00:12:25,220 know, that's just the world we live in and so often, once you 202 00:12:25,260 --> 00:12:28,035 get through a, a change, a lot of times the people that were 203 00:12:28,235 --> 00:12:30,662 really resistant look back and go oh, that wasn't so bad. 204 00:12:30,662 --> 00:12:34,337 You know, it's almost like the fear of change was was worse 205 00:12:34,378 --> 00:12:37,442 than the actual execution of said change event. 206 00:12:37,442 --> 00:12:40,849 Right, um and but. 207 00:12:40,849 --> 00:12:47,591 But I do find that the differentiator so many times of 208 00:12:47,831 --> 00:12:51,822 a good experience versus a bad experience comes down to a great 209 00:12:51,822 --> 00:12:52,102 leader. 210 00:12:53,044 --> 00:12:53,706 Speaker 1: Without a doubt. 211 00:12:53,936 --> 00:12:56,522 Speaker 2: So it you know that's , and so I do think, like, in 212 00:12:56,782 --> 00:13:00,197 kind of the point of of this book here is, you know it's, 213 00:13:00,557 --> 00:13:04,486 it's giving a roadmap for for leaders to understand how to, 214 00:13:04,748 --> 00:13:05,567 how to lead people through this. 215 00:13:05,567 --> 00:13:06,350 So I want for leaders to understand how to how to lead 216 00:13:06,317 --> 00:13:07,047 people, uh, through this. 217 00:13:07,047 --> 00:13:08,269 So I want, I want to circle around. 218 00:13:08,269 --> 00:13:11,294 I love the uh, the term that you used, uh, when you were 219 00:13:11,315 --> 00:13:16,645 talking about purpose, and that is the insides match the 220 00:13:16,846 --> 00:13:17,368 outsides. 221 00:13:17,368 --> 00:13:18,895 Can you unpack that phrase for us? 222 00:13:18,895 --> 00:13:19,697 Um? 223 00:13:19,716 --> 00:13:23,201 just cause I, I love that that uh kind of visual. 224 00:13:24,062 --> 00:13:27,907 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think that let me give an example of 225 00:13:29,368 --> 00:13:32,934 you know how I've seen this play out in many organizations. 226 00:13:32,934 --> 00:13:38,831 Many organizations, as you well know, will have great diversity 227 00:13:38,831 --> 00:13:42,857 , equity and inclusion statements, right, and that they 228 00:13:42,857 --> 00:13:45,044 value this more than anything else. 229 00:13:45,044 --> 00:13:49,778 Statements, and that they value this more than anything else. 230 00:13:49,778 --> 00:13:51,280 Yet when you look at the amount of individuals who are sitting 231 00:13:51,322 --> 00:13:54,668 in the C-suite minus two or three they are very homogeneous 232 00:13:56,855 --> 00:14:01,380 and the constant argument is that, well, it's a pipeline 233 00:14:01,421 --> 00:14:01,681 issue. 234 00:14:01,681 --> 00:14:08,230 You know, I absolutely categorically think that's a BS 235 00:14:08,269 --> 00:14:13,907 statement, and so I think that that's an easy example, right? 236 00:14:13,907 --> 00:14:17,304 You know, you say that you value this, you say that you 237 00:14:17,345 --> 00:14:22,721 want this, and yet for 40 years, we've not seen much progress in 238 00:14:22,721 --> 00:14:26,047 terms of marginalized communities reaching the C-suite 239 00:14:26,047 --> 00:14:26,047 . 240 00:14:26,047 --> 00:14:27,196 That's one example. 241 00:14:27,196 --> 00:14:36,172 Another example is you know, we want to live our ESG values and 242 00:14:36,172 --> 00:14:39,698 yet our carbon footprint and nothing that we do related to 243 00:14:39,759 --> 00:14:44,009 that our packaging, our relationship to how we get 244 00:14:44,089 --> 00:14:48,236 things to our clients, those kinds of things are not lived up 245 00:14:48,236 --> 00:14:48,498 to. 246 00:14:50,221 --> 00:14:54,548 We have, you know, great statements from CEOs about this. 247 00:14:54,548 --> 00:14:57,759 Is, you know, a caring family. 248 00:14:57,759 --> 00:15:00,125 We think of our employees as family. 249 00:15:00,125 --> 00:15:03,498 That's perhaps the most damaging phrase I think can come 250 00:15:03,498 --> 00:15:04,539 out of a senior leader's mouth Now. 251 00:15:04,539 --> 00:15:06,225 I's perhaps the most um damaging phrase I I uh think can 252 00:15:06,225 --> 00:15:08,735 come out of a senior leader's mouth Now. 253 00:15:08,735 --> 00:15:13,063 I think that the intentions are really good, but there is 254 00:15:13,485 --> 00:15:18,504 absolutely that is not felt um throughout an organization. 255 00:15:18,504 --> 00:15:24,200 Um, and we treat each other pretty poorly, um, things like 256 00:15:24,660 --> 00:15:29,095 oh, you know the bad guys, managers who are verbally 257 00:15:29,316 --> 00:15:32,607 abusive or abusive in any way, if they're top performers, they 258 00:15:32,668 --> 00:15:33,532 say in their role. 259 00:15:33,532 --> 00:15:37,019 Yet companies say, yeah, we don't tolerate that behavior. 260 00:15:37,019 --> 00:15:42,518 So it's these little things, both on a macro and micro level, 261 00:15:42,518 --> 00:15:47,394 that organizations really have to have the courage to live to 262 00:15:47,434 --> 00:15:47,956 their values. 263 00:15:47,956 --> 00:15:51,346 Now our younger generations are exposing this right, left and 264 00:15:51,385 --> 00:15:54,301 center in their organizations. 265 00:15:54,301 --> 00:16:00,777 You just go on Fishbowl or any other kind of platform and you 266 00:16:00,836 --> 00:16:05,004 can see how culture is eroded or that the insides don't match 267 00:16:05,065 --> 00:16:05,666 the outsides. 268 00:16:07,308 --> 00:16:16,596 Speaker 2: Totally, yeah, I think, yes, I love ESG from the 269 00:16:16,636 --> 00:16:22,395 standpoint that it's elevated, the conversation right, and now 270 00:16:22,436 --> 00:16:23,860 we have a terminology for it. 271 00:16:23,860 --> 00:16:29,052 But I think there's so much BS in ESG, right, and I would say 272 00:16:29,715 --> 00:16:34,796 same comment in DEI or any of these acronyms and I think, yeah 273 00:16:34,796 --> 00:16:36,179 , I totally agree. 274 00:16:36,179 --> 00:16:39,397 So much of this is about being authentic with know, being 275 00:16:39,456 --> 00:16:42,514 authentic with with saying you know, doing what you say you're 276 00:16:42,533 --> 00:16:44,259 going to do, standing up for these values. 277 00:16:44,259 --> 00:16:51,044 And I totally side note, I didn't, I didn't understand the 278 00:16:51,426 --> 00:16:55,195 like, how toxic the statement that we are like a family was 279 00:16:56,418 --> 00:17:00,427 until I, you know, I I had I don't know a little bit of a, 280 00:17:00,827 --> 00:17:03,234 you know, an eye opening moment where, you know, somebody was 281 00:17:03,294 --> 00:17:04,939 like, do you know how dysfunctional my family was? 282 00:17:05,279 --> 00:17:07,512 Yeah, like, that's exactly how this is. 283 00:17:07,512 --> 00:17:12,423 So, yeah, you're right, it's like and this, you know, this 284 00:17:12,442 --> 00:17:14,434 was a long time ago and I was like, oh, yeah, maybe we 285 00:17:14,454 --> 00:17:20,632 shouldn't call it a family because we actually that's not 286 00:17:20,692 --> 00:17:21,976 necessarily a positive connotation and it's not 287 00:17:21,996 --> 00:17:23,881 actually accurate, right, we're pursuing a common goal. 288 00:17:23,881 --> 00:17:27,811 You know, we're pursuing common interests, we want to help and 289 00:17:27,832 --> 00:17:32,881 support each other, but we are not a family unit. 290 00:17:32,881 --> 00:17:35,144 Right, we can fire people. 291 00:17:35,144 --> 00:17:37,134 You know, this is different. 292 00:17:37,575 --> 00:17:40,609 Speaker 1: Yeah, and again, I think that you know this there's 293 00:17:40,609 --> 00:17:43,999 there is very little malice when leaders want to talk about 294 00:17:44,058 --> 00:17:49,317 these kinds of things and that they, they truly believe it, but 295 00:17:49,317 --> 00:17:53,463 they're in very privileged positions, right, right. 296 00:17:53,463 --> 00:17:57,913 And so I think that we just have to acknowledge that if we, 297 00:17:58,013 --> 00:18:02,638 as a company, are really going to set forth purpose, then that 298 00:18:02,759 --> 00:18:05,701 means purpose stays alive, because you're talking about the 299 00:18:05,701 --> 00:18:08,644 connections of purpose to work and customers and patients and 300 00:18:08,785 --> 00:18:11,549 all of that all of the time, right? 301 00:18:11,549 --> 00:18:17,438 But leaders are pressured around short term outcomes 302 00:18:18,118 --> 00:18:23,425 rather than that ethos of a long-term purpose and values. 303 00:18:23,425 --> 00:18:27,377 Now, they're not at odds with one another, of course, but 304 00:18:27,438 --> 00:18:32,755 because of those short-term metrics and goals that a leader 305 00:18:32,815 --> 00:18:39,451 has to create in order to show value to the street, you know it 306 00:18:39,451 --> 00:18:42,451 is, it is purposes lost, yeah. 307 00:18:44,034 --> 00:18:46,878 Speaker 2: Right, it's only, it's only as important. 308 00:18:46,878 --> 00:18:50,211 It's only as important as how important you make the 309 00:18:50,250 --> 00:18:51,695 measurements Correct, right? 310 00:18:51,695 --> 00:18:54,026 Or how important that is to the stakeholders? 311 00:18:54,026 --> 00:18:55,631 Yeah, like the people that, really. 312 00:18:55,631 --> 00:18:58,579 I mean, that's the reality of a for-profit enterprise, correct? 313 00:18:58,579 --> 00:19:00,856 You know what are the dollars and cents associated. 314 00:19:00,856 --> 00:19:05,039 If it's small, while we might care, it's not going to rise to 315 00:19:05,059 --> 00:19:06,634 the level of importance of profitability. 316 00:19:07,319 --> 00:19:09,996 Speaker 1: Period end of story right, Unless you're losing the 317 00:19:10,036 --> 00:19:10,597 right people. 318 00:19:10,597 --> 00:19:12,756 Unless you're losing the right people. 319 00:19:13,317 --> 00:19:20,349 Speaker 2: Right, right, okay, I love that, so, okay. 320 00:19:20,349 --> 00:19:21,773 So I want to maybe jump into a little bit of a tangent, because 321 00:19:21,773 --> 00:19:23,597 I feel like I can't go podcast without talking about this. 322 00:19:23,597 --> 00:19:31,178 So, speaking of BS, how much of the noise around generative AI 323 00:19:32,400 --> 00:19:34,804 is real, like, like, like, what? 324 00:19:34,804 --> 00:19:38,220 What should we be preparing ourselves and our leaders for as 325 00:19:38,220 --> 00:19:39,766 it relates to this AI? 326 00:19:39,766 --> 00:19:43,278 Because I feel like there's so many headlines but when you 327 00:19:43,298 --> 00:19:48,231 really unpack it it's not as transformative as everybody 328 00:19:48,271 --> 00:19:52,520 thinks it's going to be, as it relates to kind of the humanity 329 00:19:52,560 --> 00:19:53,363 within the workplace. 330 00:19:53,363 --> 00:19:55,895 So what's your perspective on AI and how that kind of 331 00:19:56,096 --> 00:19:58,061 interplays with all of these leadership? 332 00:19:58,509 --> 00:20:01,898 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the advances in technology and AI 333 00:20:01,919 --> 00:20:03,321 would certainly fall into this. 334 00:20:03,321 --> 00:20:07,342 So, whether you're talking about AI or automation, you know 335 00:20:07,342 --> 00:20:12,413 , and data that we get from it all goodness right, I think that 336 00:20:12,413 --> 00:20:26,711 they can be very powerful tools for good right, powerful tools 337 00:20:26,730 --> 00:20:28,134 for good right, but there is such a lack of understanding of 338 00:20:28,153 --> 00:20:30,298 how, when, where to use these in the context of not only a 339 00:20:30,357 --> 00:20:35,070 company, but in the context of someone's job, their 340 00:20:35,111 --> 00:20:38,077 relationship to another area of the company, or their 341 00:20:38,137 --> 00:20:43,650 relationship to the end user, customer or ecosystem partners. 342 00:20:43,650 --> 00:20:47,198 Right, and what what we've done . 343 00:20:47,198 --> 00:20:52,535 You know we love heroes, whether those are hero CEOs that 344 00:20:52,535 --> 00:20:56,021 we put on a pedestal or hero technologies that we put on a 345 00:20:56,061 --> 00:20:57,391 pedestal Right. 346 00:20:57,391 --> 00:20:59,976 We love that Right that we put on a pedestal. 347 00:20:59,976 --> 00:21:00,777 Right, we love that right. 348 00:21:00,797 --> 00:21:07,151 However, what we don't do is be curious enough to say how is 349 00:21:07,171 --> 00:21:07,952 this really going to work? 350 00:21:07,952 --> 00:21:12,522 Not only for me as a boomer who really has a hard time 351 00:21:12,750 --> 00:21:15,038 integrating new technology, right? 352 00:21:15,038 --> 00:21:21,623 Or as me relating to a Gen Z who's in my organization, who's 353 00:21:21,742 --> 00:21:25,069 using this all the time and, frankly, getting fabulous ideas, 354 00:21:25,069 --> 00:21:51,887 but there's so many're going to use AI. 355 00:21:51,887 --> 00:21:57,558 Here's the context and outcomes we're looking for for AI. 356 00:21:57,558 --> 00:21:59,863 Here's how it's going to impact your job. 357 00:21:59,863 --> 00:22:03,094 Here's how we're going to train you around this. 358 00:22:03,515 --> 00:22:08,523 And oh, by the way, what we need from you is not only using the 359 00:22:08,564 --> 00:22:14,076 tool in the right way, but also being smart enough and 360 00:22:14,296 --> 00:22:17,839 analytical enough to say what answer I get. 361 00:22:17,839 --> 00:22:23,946 Question that Is that you know those analytical skills and 362 00:22:24,150 --> 00:22:28,597 critical thinking around the tool and to understand the 363 00:22:28,719 --> 00:22:33,473 outcome in the context of the impact to you know, whatever 364 00:22:33,534 --> 00:22:36,080 product we're developing or whatever customer interaction 365 00:22:36,101 --> 00:22:39,679 we're having, those are the things that we have not done. 366 00:22:39,679 --> 00:22:46,576 Therefore, I think that you're talking about the noise of 367 00:22:46,596 --> 00:22:47,500 generative AI and all that it's talking about. 368 00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:48,688 Well, people are talking about it because nobody can define 369 00:22:48,708 --> 00:22:51,898 what does it actually mean, not only to the company, but for the 370 00:22:51,898 --> 00:22:53,806 team and for me as an employee? 371 00:22:53,806 --> 00:22:55,451 And oh, by the way, train me. 372 00:22:56,335 --> 00:22:58,481 Speaker 2: Right, right, which we've already touched on. 373 00:22:58,481 --> 00:22:59,243 That I love. 374 00:22:59,243 --> 00:23:02,996 I love the uh, I love tying it down back to like the hero, like 375 00:23:02,996 --> 00:23:05,730 like thinking of AI as this hero, almost on this like hero's 376 00:23:05,730 --> 00:23:08,818 journey, right, but the reality is like like it is. 377 00:23:08,818 --> 00:23:10,502 It's it's really really undefined. 378 00:23:10,502 --> 00:23:11,811 It's a really really broad topic. 379 00:23:11,811 --> 00:23:15,037 I think my favorite prompt in chat, gpt, is what was your 380 00:23:15,096 --> 00:23:16,460 source for this information? 381 00:23:16,460 --> 00:23:19,724 And it's like yeah, you know, cat, fancycom, right. 382 00:23:19,744 --> 00:23:21,718 Speaker 1: You know, like like you gotta you gotta like. 383 00:23:22,220 --> 00:23:24,510 Speaker 2: It's no different than like Googling something and 384 00:23:24,510 --> 00:23:28,343 then hoping that you get a you know, a decent, you know valid 385 00:23:28,462 --> 00:23:29,871 response, but you still like. 386 00:23:29,871 --> 00:23:35,422 The ability to like, question the data and the outcome and use 387 00:23:35,422 --> 00:23:39,779 your own kind of you know analytical capabilities is even 388 00:23:39,819 --> 00:23:41,486 more critical now than it ever has. 389 00:23:42,131 --> 00:23:45,476 Speaker 1: You know, I think that if you look at the impact 390 00:23:45,817 --> 00:23:49,542 of this technology and most technologies that you know are 391 00:23:49,583 --> 00:23:52,432 entering into the workforce today, they're not working 392 00:23:52,493 --> 00:23:54,941 because people are not being given the time. 393 00:23:54,941 --> 00:23:58,221 In fact, you know there was a study in the New York Times 394 00:23:58,281 --> 00:24:04,163 talked about this that actually AI is more. 395 00:24:04,163 --> 00:24:08,645 People are rejecting it within their organizations because the 396 00:24:08,705 --> 00:24:10,066 fact is that they can't. 397 00:24:10,066 --> 00:24:11,866 You know, they don't have time to use it. 398 00:24:13,788 --> 00:24:14,248 Speaker 2: Interesting. 399 00:24:14,288 --> 00:24:15,887 Speaker 1: They don't understand how to use it within the 400 00:24:15,907 --> 00:24:16,929 context of their job. 401 00:24:19,074 --> 00:24:20,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's really, you know, it's, it's 402 00:24:20,410 --> 00:24:24,559 fascinating because, you know, I , I hear that and that makes 403 00:24:24,599 --> 00:24:27,894 sense to me and, and you know, just in my own anecdotal 404 00:24:27,955 --> 00:24:30,622 experience, you know there's, you know everybody's in such a 405 00:24:30,721 --> 00:24:33,954 rush and it's, you know, yeah, well, let's say, I've got this 406 00:24:33,974 --> 00:24:36,159 AI tool and I'm supposed to test this out, but you know, I got, 407 00:24:36,199 --> 00:24:37,621 I got this, this and this I got to get done. 408 00:24:37,621 --> 00:24:39,463 I'm just not going to have time , Forget it, I'll just do it 409 00:24:39,503 --> 00:24:39,944 myself. 410 00:24:41,567 --> 00:24:43,491 Speaker 1: Or I'll go ask the guy that I always ask. 411 00:24:43,913 --> 00:24:47,511 Speaker 2: Right, right, because it's easier or I just know how 412 00:24:47,551 --> 00:24:51,030 to do it, but the reality is this could be an enabler, right, 413 00:24:51,030 --> 00:24:54,829 as we talk about the rate of change and some of these 414 00:24:54,871 --> 00:25:01,940 challenges, I will tell you as a global HR professional AI has 415 00:25:02,150 --> 00:25:06,819 an extremely exciting use case for translation, language and 416 00:25:06,859 --> 00:25:07,540 communication. 417 00:25:07,540 --> 00:25:11,335 Um, you know, I use it to recap almost every single meeting 418 00:25:11,375 --> 00:25:15,443 that I do now, and it's pretty darn good at it, right, but? 419 00:25:15,443 --> 00:25:16,290 But I don't use it. 420 00:25:16,290 --> 00:25:19,395 I don't use it to make really thoughtful strategic decisions. 421 00:25:19,395 --> 00:25:23,823 Right, I use it to recap things and then and then prompt, you 422 00:25:23,843 --> 00:25:29,132 know, other dialogue and you can use it for translation 423 00:25:29,152 --> 00:25:31,455 capability, but it can, like this can, really make you know, 424 00:25:31,936 --> 00:25:35,221 the employee experience significantly better if we take 425 00:25:35,241 --> 00:25:36,605 the time to figure out how it works. 426 00:25:37,289 --> 00:25:39,575 Speaker 1: Well, and if you take the time to train people, I 427 00:25:39,615 --> 00:25:43,060 mean, your schedule probably looks like mine, which I've 428 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:46,173 changed dramatically that you know I am on the West Coast, so 429 00:25:46,193 --> 00:25:47,497 I have the curse of the West Coast. 430 00:25:47,497 --> 00:25:49,040 You know it's 6 am to. 431 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,594 You know 6 pm, meeting after meeting, after meeting after 432 00:25:53,653 --> 00:25:57,278 meeting there's no, and then after 6 pm, getting the work 433 00:25:57,337 --> 00:25:59,400 done right and summing up things . 434 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,182 That's not sustainable. 435 00:26:02,182 --> 00:26:06,385 I don't live that way anymore, but it is not sustainable. 436 00:26:06,385 --> 00:26:23,073 And the reality is, if we are going to use tools like AI or 437 00:26:23,113 --> 00:26:24,135 other analytical and insight tools or automation 438 00:26:24,155 --> 00:26:25,357 manufacturing, whatever it is, we need to take the time to 439 00:26:25,419 --> 00:26:27,323 teach people and to give them opportunities to practice it, 440 00:26:27,984 --> 00:26:31,355 and we're just not doing that in the name of productivity, which 441 00:26:31,355 --> 00:26:35,231 is why engagement is so low and why you know we're spending 442 00:26:35,271 --> 00:26:40,181 $322 billion a year on mental health issues. 443 00:26:40,181 --> 00:26:41,943 I mean, that is the new pandemic. 444 00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:43,932 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. 445 00:26:43,932 --> 00:26:45,958 So let's, let's talk about that a little bit and I you know, 446 00:26:46,259 --> 00:26:49,655 and you talked about you know, you talked about purpose, agency 447 00:26:49,655 --> 00:26:53,653 , wellness and connection, and I think, I think my, my thought 448 00:26:53,693 --> 00:26:56,420 would be that this wellness and connection piece are so 449 00:26:56,601 --> 00:26:57,923 incredibly intertwined. 450 00:26:58,190 --> 00:26:58,391 Speaker 1: Yes. 451 00:26:58,934 --> 00:27:01,529 Speaker 2: And I will like like my own personal experience. 452 00:27:01,529 --> 00:27:05,101 So I was essentially stuck at home for a year. 453 00:27:05,101 --> 00:27:12,269 In that time we transitioned from a largely in-person 454 00:27:12,288 --> 00:27:15,836 workplace into almost exclusively virtual as it 455 00:27:15,896 --> 00:27:18,763 related to meetings and offices. 456 00:27:18,763 --> 00:27:23,872 But I was just personally lonely. 457 00:27:23,872 --> 00:27:25,076 I'm an extrovert, right, there's a reason I'm in human 458 00:27:25,135 --> 00:27:25,596 resources. 459 00:27:25,596 --> 00:27:28,192 I actually like people believe it or not, to anybody that's 460 00:27:28,211 --> 00:27:35,943 listening to this but you know it's like lonely and tedious to 461 00:27:36,003 --> 00:27:39,193 just be sitting at home and there's no break or disconnect 462 00:27:39,213 --> 00:27:43,160 between that little desk that you sit at and talk on a laptop 463 00:27:43,361 --> 00:27:47,250 on, versus the you know, driving to an office that can actually 464 00:27:47,332 --> 00:27:48,795 missed a commute, believe it or not. 465 00:27:48,795 --> 00:27:53,003 Um, and, and so you know, I'm curious what? 466 00:27:53,003 --> 00:27:56,376 What advice do you have for us that work in these organizations 467 00:27:56,376 --> 00:28:00,125 that that have have this as a component of their workplace and 468 00:28:00,125 --> 00:28:03,939 will continue to have it for the you know foreseeable future? 469 00:28:03,939 --> 00:28:08,651 How can we help support mental health, support that 470 00:28:08,711 --> 00:28:13,645 connectedness and, you know, kind of give people what they're 471 00:28:13,645 --> 00:28:15,471 asking for in their employment experience? 472 00:28:15,770 --> 00:28:18,296 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean, I think that the basics have to 473 00:28:18,336 --> 00:28:18,977 be there, right? 474 00:28:18,977 --> 00:28:21,540 So if you think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the 475 00:28:21,621 --> 00:28:27,009 organization has to provide services that people have access 476 00:28:27,009 --> 00:28:34,164 to and that are paid for to get mental health services right. 477 00:28:34,164 --> 00:28:37,512 So I think that that's changed a lot, and you've seen 478 00:28:37,613 --> 00:28:42,510 technology really impact that capability Companies like 479 00:28:42,751 --> 00:28:47,859 BetterUp, for instance, being able to provide that kind of 480 00:28:48,741 --> 00:28:50,951 access is really quite remarkable. 481 00:28:50,951 --> 00:28:55,355 I think the other thing is is we have to start thinking about 482 00:28:55,496 --> 00:29:01,282 what are the systemic issues that are impacting mental health 483 00:29:01,282 --> 00:29:05,195 at work, whether in a distributed way or not. 484 00:29:05,195 --> 00:29:10,900 Those systemic issues and the return to office kind of 485 00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:16,315 mandates impact women and people of color more significantly 486 00:29:16,694 --> 00:29:18,458 than straight white men. 487 00:29:18,458 --> 00:29:23,865 Because of child care issues, right, or elder care issues. 488 00:29:23,865 --> 00:29:28,778 We don't have, you know, access . 489 00:29:28,778 --> 00:29:31,964 A lot of our companies don't have access for child care 490 00:29:32,651 --> 00:29:35,354 stipends or elder care stipends. 491 00:29:35,354 --> 00:29:43,563 So that is a huge impact In terms of, you know, the ability 492 00:29:44,443 --> 00:29:49,759 for individuals to find meaning and connection at work. 493 00:29:50,241 --> 00:29:52,829 It really goes back to what we've been talking about even 494 00:29:52,990 --> 00:29:56,876 before the pandemic that we still haven't executed well on, 495 00:29:56,957 --> 00:30:01,044 and that is how do we design work differently, right? 496 00:30:01,044 --> 00:30:05,438 How do we fundamentally design work differently so that people 497 00:30:05,678 --> 00:30:10,614 can have much more flexibility and predictability in their days 498 00:30:10,614 --> 00:30:14,540 for either coming into work or not coming into work. 499 00:30:14,540 --> 00:30:15,903 Who are they? 500 00:30:15,903 --> 00:30:16,890 You know? 501 00:30:16,890 --> 00:30:21,498 Are we taking a project-based model where people can work on 502 00:30:21,518 --> 00:30:25,305 their work in teams, whether it's in this format or not? 503 00:30:25,305 --> 00:30:27,053 So we just haven't. 504 00:30:27,053 --> 00:30:31,280 We've had a failure of imagination and execution when 505 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:32,903 it comes to how we design work. 506 00:30:34,413 --> 00:30:36,820 Speaker 2: I think that's a power, really powerful point. 507 00:30:36,820 --> 00:30:42,792 A power, really powerful point, um, you know, and I, and I 508 00:30:42,813 --> 00:30:43,875 think it's it's, it's interesting because, yeah, this, 509 00:30:43,875 --> 00:30:46,000 this isn't, this isn't new. 510 00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,571 You know, people have been asking for flexibility in the 511 00:30:48,612 --> 00:30:50,657 workplace for for years. 512 00:30:50,657 --> 00:30:55,912 Um, I continue to see more and more and more what I like the 513 00:30:56,073 --> 00:30:57,234 outside trickling in. 514 00:30:57,655 --> 00:31:00,430 Right, there used to be such a like, such an attitude, 515 00:31:00,470 --> 00:31:03,637 certainly when I first started in my career, that you leave 516 00:31:03,704 --> 00:31:08,535 home, at home, and you know, you , you, you shut that door when 517 00:31:08,555 --> 00:31:11,887 you come into work and you go back home and you leave, you 518 00:31:11,948 --> 00:31:14,634 leave them both separate, right, but the reality is now, 519 00:31:14,695 --> 00:31:17,150 everything's integrated, right, there's no, you, you're not 520 00:31:17,191 --> 00:31:19,817 leaving it at home, um, you're bringing it with you. 521 00:31:19,817 --> 00:31:22,267 And, and the reality is, human beings don't operate like that. 522 00:31:22,267 --> 00:31:24,773 You can't compartmentalize your entire existence and hope to 523 00:31:24,855 --> 00:31:27,309 not have some sort of a mental break. 524 00:31:27,309 --> 00:31:29,173 I mean, it's just not how it worked. 525 00:31:29,173 --> 00:31:32,105 And so I think we've, we're realizing as a society this 526 00:31:32,165 --> 00:31:35,648 isn't working, um, but to your point, we, we have, we have an 527 00:31:35,709 --> 00:31:38,411 opportunity now to be creative, to think a little differently 528 00:31:38,872 --> 00:31:39,811 and redesign this. 529 00:31:40,313 --> 00:31:42,434 Speaker 1: Yeah, we have generations in the workforce who 530 00:31:42,434 --> 00:31:44,936 are in polar opposite thinking around this. 531 00:31:45,876 --> 00:31:46,758 Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. 532 00:31:47,499 --> 00:31:50,401 Speaker 1: And who have different skills to navigate it. 533 00:31:51,422 --> 00:31:52,221 Speaker 2: That's fascinating. 534 00:31:52,221 --> 00:31:54,526 I mean, you know, there's like this great sucking sound to get 535 00:31:54,546 --> 00:31:56,970 everybody back in the office now , you know, and it, and it's 536 00:31:57,090 --> 00:32:00,616 like, well, it's so I and it, you know, I'll tell a true story 537 00:32:00,616 --> 00:32:00,616 . 538 00:32:00,616 --> 00:32:04,289 So, you know, we had a similar, similar phenomenon in my 539 00:32:04,349 --> 00:32:06,516 organization and we brought a bunch of people back. 540 00:32:06,516 --> 00:32:10,244 And you know it was a, it was a broad initiative and you know, 541 00:32:10,285 --> 00:32:12,045 our thought is, well, it's really going to drive engagement 542 00:32:12,045 --> 00:32:12,045 . 543 00:32:12,045 --> 00:32:14,048 Let's get people back collaborating more and 544 00:32:14,088 --> 00:32:15,211 collaborating more. 545 00:32:15,251 --> 00:32:18,538 And somebody came to my office after we started and said, you 546 00:32:18,578 --> 00:32:24,250 know, I'm just sitting on virtual teams meetings in a 547 00:32:24,270 --> 00:32:25,415 cubicle with, like, nobody else around me, right, like I'm 548 00:32:25,435 --> 00:32:27,042 literally doing exactly what I'm like, yeah, maybe we can think 549 00:32:27,083 --> 00:32:30,049 a little differently about this, right? 550 00:32:30,049 --> 00:32:33,096 So if you're in the office, collaborate, like there should 551 00:32:33,116 --> 00:32:35,390 be like an intentional collaborative opportunity, and 552 00:32:35,410 --> 00:32:37,836 that makes sense to have people in person for some of these 553 00:32:37,896 --> 00:32:38,176 things. 554 00:32:38,176 --> 00:32:41,205 But where it's not required, then why are you requiring it? 555 00:32:41,205 --> 00:32:44,597 Right, and I, I, my argument is I think it's more about that 556 00:32:44,659 --> 00:32:45,582 flexibility piece. 557 00:32:45,582 --> 00:32:48,570 People don't necessarily care about being in the office, but 558 00:32:48,590 --> 00:32:52,006 they want that flexibility in that, that, uh, that agency, as 559 00:32:52,066 --> 00:32:53,386 you put it to. 560 00:32:54,327 --> 00:32:54,607 Speaker 1: Yeah. 561 00:32:54,607 --> 00:32:57,951 And for those who are not in the office, yeah, those who are 562 00:32:57,990 --> 00:33:00,874 not in the office, let's be creative and look at the zip 563 00:33:00,894 --> 00:33:04,997 codes of where our employees are working remotely and, you know, 564 00:33:04,997 --> 00:33:09,681 rent out a table at, or reserve a table at, starbucks for 565 00:33:09,721 --> 00:33:10,662 everybody to go work there. 566 00:33:11,125 --> 00:33:13,574 Speaker 2: Right, right I mean there's a lot of ways to do this 567 00:33:13,574 --> 00:33:13,574 . 568 00:33:13,865 --> 00:33:15,428 Speaker 1: There's a lot of ways to do this. 569 00:33:15,428 --> 00:33:18,472 I know that sounds simple, but gosh, you know that does not 570 00:33:18,553 --> 00:33:18,874 take. 571 00:33:18,874 --> 00:33:21,498 You know that doesn't take a lot. 572 00:33:22,098 --> 00:33:25,986 Speaker 2: Right, right, totally , totally agree, so much. 573 00:33:25,986 --> 00:33:31,115 So my argument on that is like and so I I'm a little bit in the 574 00:33:31,115 --> 00:33:34,548 middle on this Like I, I love being in person. 575 00:33:34,548 --> 00:33:39,195 Personally, I also appreciate that some people don't. 576 00:33:39,195 --> 00:33:44,412 But there's also like, I think that you just have to be very, 577 00:33:44,452 --> 00:33:46,365 very intentional about it, right , like, if you have an 578 00:33:46,404 --> 00:33:48,692 intentional collaborative opportunity and you need to be 579 00:33:48,731 --> 00:33:50,256 in person, great, go figure it out. 580 00:33:50,256 --> 00:33:54,017 But where you don't need to, there's a ton of there's like 581 00:33:54,439 --> 00:33:56,767 technology enabled tools where you can collaborate really, 582 00:33:56,787 --> 00:34:02,380 really heavily asynchronously, yeah, and probably do, probably 583 00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:05,508 have people perform better, because maybe someone has their 584 00:34:05,528 --> 00:34:08,018 best ideas at two in the morning and somebody does at 10 in the 585 00:34:08,057 --> 00:34:08,338 morning. 586 00:34:08,338 --> 00:34:09,527 Right, you know, there's all these. 587 00:34:09,527 --> 00:34:12,396 Now you're, now you're actually playing to somebody's. 588 00:34:12,396 --> 00:34:15,827 You know own individual um, you know capabilities. 589 00:34:15,827 --> 00:34:17,090 That is 100, yeah, I capabilities. 590 00:34:17,110 --> 00:34:17,992 Speaker 1: That is a hundred percent. 591 00:34:18,293 --> 00:34:19,976 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm totally, I'm totally with you. 592 00:34:19,976 --> 00:34:24,255 Well, I told you before we hit record that we would just start 593 00:34:24,315 --> 00:34:27,041 getting into the heart of the conversation and not want it to 594 00:34:27,204 --> 00:34:27,284 end. 595 00:34:27,284 --> 00:34:30,394 But unfortunately, here we are. 596 00:34:30,394 --> 00:34:34,588 So we're going to awkwardly and unfortunately shift into the 597 00:34:34,648 --> 00:34:36,134 Rebel HR flash round. 598 00:34:36,134 --> 00:34:40,891 So, all right, question number one where do we need to rebel? 599 00:34:42,724 --> 00:34:45,074 Speaker 1: Designing new models for leadership. 600 00:34:49,367 --> 00:34:54,614 Speaker 2: I couldn't agree more , and I think you know I love 601 00:34:54,675 --> 00:34:57,472 that you have kind of put a roadmap together in this book, 602 00:34:58,606 --> 00:35:02,974 and I think it's just so incredibly correct that this is 603 00:35:03,054 --> 00:35:06,320 what employees are asking for. 604 00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:12,210 This is what they've been asking for for a while, but at a 605 00:35:12,210 --> 00:35:14,235 certain point this is just going to become a mandate. 606 00:35:14,235 --> 00:35:17,351 This has to be the new model, because the employers and 607 00:35:17,371 --> 00:35:20,436 leaders that don't adopt this approach are just not going to 608 00:35:20,456 --> 00:35:21,177 be able to keep people. 609 00:35:21,177 --> 00:35:22,465 I mean, that's just the reality of it. 610 00:35:22,626 --> 00:35:25,172 Speaker 1: So yeah, we believe that, obviously believe that 611 00:35:25,192 --> 00:35:29,268 very strongly in the emotional leader and leader Yep. 612 00:35:29,809 --> 00:35:31,012 Speaker 2: Couldn't, couldn't agree more. 613 00:35:31,012 --> 00:35:33,737 Question number two who should we be listening to? 614 00:35:41,244 --> 00:35:43,108 Speaker 1: we be listening to Yourself. 615 00:35:43,108 --> 00:35:45,731 I think we need more time for people to be in reflection and 616 00:35:45,751 --> 00:35:49,759 really discernment, not only around what they want for their 617 00:35:49,838 --> 00:35:55,916 own lives, but their own desires for their purpose in the work 618 00:35:55,956 --> 00:36:00,108 that they do and how they build that connection for themselves, 619 00:36:00,228 --> 00:36:02,635 not wait for someone to build it for them. 620 00:36:04,793 --> 00:36:07,726 Speaker 2: I love that, I love that response and in this, you 621 00:36:07,746 --> 00:36:11,342 know, especially in this, in this world there's there's a lot 622 00:36:11,342 --> 00:36:15,047 of external noise and external factors and influences and I 623 00:36:15,086 --> 00:36:18,335 think the people that can get reflective and quiet. 624 00:36:18,335 --> 00:36:23,697 You know that's necessary for a number of reasons. 625 00:36:23,697 --> 00:36:27,492 All right, last question how can our listeners connect with 626 00:36:27,532 --> 00:36:29,105 you and how can they get their hands on the book? 627 00:36:30,027 --> 00:36:36,255 Speaker 1: Yeah, they can go to our website, smith-monaghancom, 628 00:36:36,777 --> 00:36:39,219 and that's where you'll find information on the book. 629 00:36:39,219 --> 00:36:42,815 You will also find links to the Humanity Studio. 630 00:36:42,815 --> 00:36:48,086 You can also go straight to thehumanitystudiocom and you 631 00:36:48,106 --> 00:36:51,775 will find more about us and the book. 632 00:36:53,056 --> 00:36:53,438 Speaker 2: I love it. 633 00:36:53,438 --> 00:36:59,250 The book, one more time, is Essential, and the subtitle is 634 00:36:59,329 --> 00:37:03,050 how Distributed Teams, generative AI and Global Shifts 635 00:37:03,130 --> 00:37:07,081 are Creating a New Human-Powered Leadership. 636 00:37:07,081 --> 00:37:09,387 We will have a link to that in the show notes. 637 00:37:09,387 --> 00:37:12,896 Open up your podcast player, click in and get your hands on 638 00:37:12,936 --> 00:37:13,197 the book. 639 00:37:13,197 --> 00:37:16,237 Christy, just an absolutely wonderful conversation. 640 00:37:16,237 --> 00:37:19,088 Thank you for putting in the time and energy to put this 641 00:37:19,128 --> 00:37:21,456 content out there and appreciate your work. 642 00:37:22,005 --> 00:37:23,931 Speaker 1: Thank you, kyle, really had a great time. 643 00:37:23,931 --> 00:37:24,713 Thank you. 644 00:37:26,465 --> 00:37:29,715 Speaker 2: All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast. 645 00:37:29,715 --> 00:37:31,719 Big thank you to our guests. 646 00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:37,353 Follow us on Facebook at Rebel HR podcast, Twitter at RebelGuy, 647 00:37:37,353 --> 00:37:40,431 or see our website at RebelHumanResourcescom. 648 00:37:40,431 --> 00:37:44,259 The views and opinions expressed by RebelHR Podcast are 649 00:37:44,259 --> 00:37:46,358 those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the 650 00:37:46,378 --> 00:37:50,269 official policy or position of any of the organizations that we 651 00:37:50,269 --> 00:37:50,652 represent. 652 00:37:50,652 --> 00:37:54,211 No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. 653 00:37:54,211 --> 00:37:56,364 Baby.