WEBVTT 00:00:03.024 --> 00:00:08.131 This is the Rebel HR Podcast, the podcast about all things innovation in the people's space. 00:00:08.131 --> 00:00:09.614 I'm Kyle Rode. 00:00:09.614 --> 00:00:10.595 Let's start the show. 00:00:10.595 --> 00:00:16.602 Welcome back HR community. 00:00:16.602 --> 00:00:20.306 Thrilled to have this conversation today With us. 00:00:20.306 --> 00:00:21.827 We have Christy Smith. 00:00:21.827 --> 00:00:44.652 Christy is the founder of the Humanity Studio, a leadership advisory firm, and author of the book that is coming out in the very, very near future Embrace the Power of Human-Powered Leadership with her book Essential how Distributed Teams, generative AI and Global Shifts Are Creating a New Human-Powered Leadership. 00:00:44.652 --> 00:00:48.049 Christy wrote that book with Kelly Monaghan, phd. 00:00:48.049 --> 00:00:49.765 Christy, thank you so much for joining us. 00:00:50.307 --> 00:00:51.149 Thanks for having me. 00:00:52.381 --> 00:00:54.289 Well, extremely excited to have you. 00:00:54.289 --> 00:01:11.373 As we were kind of doing the pre-meeting before I hit record, I was telling you that this book just hits so many of these topics that I think are so incredibly critical for so many of us in the HR community, and I'm really excited for the book to come out. 00:01:11.373 --> 00:01:12.240 I'm curious. 00:01:12.240 --> 00:01:18.453 My first question for you is what motivated you to write a book on these topics? 00:01:19.200 --> 00:01:53.123 Yeah, Well, many, many years of really having the privilege to serve clients in the C-suite you know, minus two, three in organizations and your colleagues in HR and really seeing the shift, especially now and since the pandemic of what's required of leaders and what the relationship with employees are, employees' relationship with organizations and how those drastically have shifted and the expectations have shifted. 00:01:53.123 --> 00:02:00.022 So I was excited to dig in and look at those shifts and hopefully provide some answers. 00:02:01.584 --> 00:02:06.852 Well, I am waiting these answers as well because I got a lot of questions. 00:02:07.313 --> 00:02:08.014 I bet yeah. 00:02:08.715 --> 00:02:09.014 I got. 00:02:09.034 --> 00:02:38.939 Yeah, I mean, there's so much here, right, and I think you know there's a lot of conversation around this stuff, but it's a really, really big question and I think COVID accelerated this, right, but but this was always kind of where we were marching towards anyways as a society, you know, as as virtual work became more more relevant, generative AI has, you know, I mean that's been around for a long time. 00:02:39.060 --> 00:02:51.413 Now it's actually to a point where we're seeing it more incorporated in the workplace, you know, and the globalization and distribution of employees, you know, is kind of a natural evolution of our economy. 00:02:51.413 --> 00:02:58.621 So, you know, these are all very logical shifts, but we don't necessarily have the tools to deal with them yet. 00:02:58.621 --> 00:03:15.133 Or, certainly, as we look at, like, our leadership development programs, they're still kind of targeted towards in-person leaders and you know, it's kind of like a lot of this leadership stuff is basically the same stuff that's been around since the 50s, 60s and 70s. 00:03:15.133 --> 00:03:27.895 So I'm curious, as you think about this, this challenge, what are, what are some of these areas where you feel like we need to, we need to broadly focus on adjusting the way that we lead? 00:03:28.960 --> 00:03:56.000 Well, I think I think first is a is a mindset shift, right, I think that you know, as you say, some of the shifts that are occurring may be logical, right, but the fact that they're happening in such a compressed way and it's such volume, right, I think, adds a layer of complexity both for leaders and employees to kind of digest this, right. 00:03:56.000 --> 00:04:09.102 So we're not just talking about the, the direct impacts on an organization's ability to grow or to globalize, or to develop product or to embrace technology. 00:04:09.102 --> 00:04:16.654 We're talking about we're living in a polarized society around the globe. 00:04:16.654 --> 00:04:20.745 We are dealing with wars on multiple fronts. 00:04:20.745 --> 00:04:37.843 We're dealing with people who are trying to take care of their children and their elders right, and there are not in many countries, this included those services that allow us to do this and go work right in an affordable way. 00:04:37.843 --> 00:04:44.889 And so you know, we can't just look at what are the organizational impacts. 00:04:44.889 --> 00:04:53.637 This is really a socioeconomic and political world that we live in that are impacting employees as they cross the threshold of work. 00:04:54.220 --> 00:05:08.880 So I think that leaders are very, very, very in tuned to this, to this, right. 00:05:08.880 --> 00:05:12.348 If you look at what leaders came out of Davos last year talking about, it was the global unrest this year. 00:05:12.348 --> 00:05:29.122 They're talking about a lot about the global unrest and culture and, as you say, how do we motivate, keep a workforce and engage a workforce where trust and engagement scores are the lowest that they've ever been, right? 00:05:29.122 --> 00:05:57.581 So this all demands a different kind of leader, not one that just has a fiduciary responsibility of run a P&L, but one that is A a global citizen now P&L, but one that is A a global citizen now and B needs to care for their employees in a fundamentally different way and engage their employees in a different way, absolutely. 00:05:58.702 --> 00:06:30.887 I think it's fascinating to me the broad impact on engagement scores here over the last few years where you know we actually everybody assumed that they would go on the in the basement right when, you know, the pandemic hit and they actually went up a little bit but then ever since then they've just, they've just it's been a downward spiral like a flywheel of doom, and especially globally, when you step outside of the US they're lower right. 00:06:30.887 --> 00:06:35.093 The engagement index scores continue to kind of sink. 00:06:35.093 --> 00:06:37.928 What do you attribute that to in your research? 00:06:38.511 --> 00:06:51.548 Well, I think that there are a couple of things, but let's talk about that in context that low employee engagement scores and productivity scores are costing us $8.8 trillion a year. 00:06:51.548 --> 00:06:56.262 Now, that's equivalent to Microsoft, amazon and Apple together. 00:06:56.262 --> 00:06:58.245 Think about that. 00:06:58.245 --> 00:07:08.180 The strain on our economy as a result of those low engagement scores and lost productivity is really significant. 00:07:08.180 --> 00:07:13.509 I attribute it to your question to a couple of things. 00:07:13.509 --> 00:07:28.915 One is we're asking employees to learn technologies and to change processes and structures without any help right. 00:07:28.915 --> 00:07:32.370 Our learning and development, investment and learning development has gone down. 00:07:32.370 --> 00:07:37.411 Secondly, we are not our insides aren't matching our outsides. 00:07:37.519 --> 00:07:47.432 When we were writing the book, we were looking at not only the realities of technology and AI and you know the change and shift in leadership. 00:07:48.000 --> 00:08:00.173 We wanted to answer the question of you know what do employees require of their leaders, and they were very clear on four things Purpose, make sure your insides match your outsides. 00:08:00.173 --> 00:08:06.312 Live up to your values, live up to the purpose statements that you are talking about. 00:08:06.312 --> 00:08:13.374 The second is agency, and this is to the point that we were talking before we went online. 00:08:13.374 --> 00:08:34.530 Is you know this notion of distributed work, working when, where and how I want, and you know making sure that my work fits into my life right Agency and defining myself in the way that I want to define myself, not being defined by a category created by the organization. 00:08:34.530 --> 00:08:42.374 Wellness is the third area that the expectation of employees have of their employees. 00:08:42.374 --> 00:08:57.086 Employers are to make sure that their employers provide them with wellness, not only in mental health or health preventative health but also financial health benefits, those kinds of things. 00:08:57.086 --> 00:09:02.485 And then, lastly, connection create areas and opportunities for employees to connect. 00:09:06.652 --> 00:09:07.232 Absolutely so. 00:09:07.232 --> 00:09:11.850 I want to dig into kind of each one of these, but before I do I'm curious. 00:09:11.850 --> 00:09:22.543 You know, I've heard this a lot, especially over the last few years, and a lot of times it's from employees who are maybe more tenured or used to doing things a certain way. 00:09:22.543 --> 00:09:32.660 It's like it's like this, this the speed of change continues to to accelerate, and I think there's a, there's a lot of at least in my organization. 00:09:32.660 --> 00:09:36.230 We see a lot of organizational stress because of that. 00:09:36.230 --> 00:09:38.000 It's like, oh my gosh, when are we going to catch up? 00:09:38.000 --> 00:09:40.144 You know, when are we going to catch up to this change? 00:09:40.144 --> 00:09:41.807 When are we going to get to catch our breath? 00:09:41.807 --> 00:10:12.910 But broadly, I hear that, you know, I kind of hear that in society too, right, it's like, if you like, there's just there's so much, and so would you attribute that feeling to really a lack of adhering to these four things and supporting employees along the way, as because the rate of change is accelerating, right, I mean, it's just naturally going to with some of these societal and technological changes. 00:10:13.460 --> 00:10:14.504 Yeah, without a doubt. 00:10:14.504 --> 00:10:16.567 You know, I think that there are a couple of things. 00:10:16.567 --> 00:10:32.249 Yes, I would say that these four areas that we examine in the book are completely related to the ability for employees and leaders themselves to be resilient right through the process of change. 00:10:32.249 --> 00:10:33.631 So that's one. 00:10:33.631 --> 00:10:35.307 Two is change is constant. 00:10:35.307 --> 00:10:50.769 You know, I'm just that old that I remember, you know, early in my career as a consultant, where we were doing change management programs for organizations and, frankly, consultancies are still doing that today. 00:10:51.711 --> 00:10:58.948 What we have not done is build the muscle for change within the design of work. 00:10:58.948 --> 00:11:01.092 Work should be dynamic. 00:11:01.092 --> 00:11:04.572 You know we have talked about things like agility, but we haven't prepared employees for what should be dynamic. 00:11:04.572 --> 00:11:10.148 You know we have talked about things like agility, but we haven't prepared employees for what should be constant. 00:11:10.148 --> 00:11:18.624 Change right and plan for that, not only in processes but also in terms of time. 00:11:18.624 --> 00:11:26.195 When you are going through a change, it requires your leader and your team to spend more time together. 00:11:26.195 --> 00:11:51.269 What we see in organizations today is we're going to go through this transformation and saddle up and just do it Rather than building the vision for it, what they can expect of it, how their work will change, how they're going to be developed with regards to their own skills and capabilities and how. 00:11:51.269 --> 00:11:51.909 You know. 00:11:51.909 --> 00:11:59.432 What does the outcome look like for you, your team and everyone else, and that, I think, is what is lacking. 00:11:59.432 --> 00:12:08.046 It's not that change is, you know, hard, it's just we don't know how to talk about it and plan for it in organizations. 00:12:10.216 --> 00:12:30.662 Yeah, I totally agree and I think you know I like the phrase that change is the only constant right Because it's, you know, that's just the world we live in and so often, once you get through a, a change, a lot of times the people that were really resistant look back and go oh, that wasn't so bad. 00:12:30.662 --> 00:12:37.442 You know, it's almost like the fear of change was was worse than the actual execution of said change event. 00:12:37.442 --> 00:12:40.849 Right, um and but. 00:12:40.849 --> 00:12:52.102 But I do find that the differentiator so many times of a good experience versus a bad experience comes down to a great leader. 00:12:53.044 --> 00:12:53.706 Without a doubt. 00:12:53.936 --> 00:13:05.567 So it you know that's, and so I do think, like, in kind of the point of of this book here is, you know it's, it's giving a roadmap for for leaders to understand how to, how to lead people through this. 00:13:05.567 --> 00:13:07.047 So I want for leaders to understand how to how to lead people, uh, through this. 00:13:07.047 --> 00:13:08.269 So I want, I want to circle around. 00:13:08.269 --> 00:13:17.368 I love the uh, the term that you used, uh, when you were talking about purpose, and that is the insides match the outsides. 00:13:17.368 --> 00:13:18.895 Can you unpack that phrase for us? 00:13:18.895 --> 00:13:19.697 Um? 00:13:19.716 --> 00:13:23.201 just cause I, I love that that uh kind of visual. 00:13:24.062 --> 00:13:32.934 Yeah, I mean, I think that let me give an example of you know how I've seen this play out in many organizations. 00:13:32.934 --> 00:13:45.044 Many organizations, as you well know, will have great diversity, equity and inclusion statements, right, and that they value this more than anything else. 00:13:45.044 --> 00:13:49.778 Statements, and that they value this more than anything else. 00:13:49.778 --> 00:14:01.681 Yet when you look at the amount of individuals who are sitting in the C-suite minus two or three they are very homogeneous and the constant argument is that, well, it's a pipeline issue. 00:14:01.681 --> 00:14:13.907 You know, I absolutely categorically think that's a BS statement, and so I think that that's an easy example, right? 00:14:13.907 --> 00:14:26.047 You know, you say that you value this, you say that you want this, and yet for 40 years, we've not seen much progress in terms of marginalized communities reaching the C-suite. 00:14:26.047 --> 00:14:27.196 That's one example. 00:14:27.196 --> 00:14:48.498 Another example is you know, we want to live our ESG values and yet our carbon footprint and nothing that we do related to that our packaging, our relationship to how we get things to our clients, those kinds of things are not lived up to. 00:14:50.221 --> 00:14:54.548 We have, you know, great statements from CEOs about this. 00:14:54.548 --> 00:14:57.759 Is, you know, a caring family. 00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:00.125 We think of our employees as family. 00:15:00.125 --> 00:15:04.539 That's perhaps the most damaging phrase I think can come out of a senior leader's mouth Now. 00:15:04.539 --> 00:15:08.735 I's perhaps the most um damaging phrase I I uh think can come out of a senior leader's mouth Now. 00:15:08.735 --> 00:15:18.504 I think that the intentions are really good, but there is absolutely that is not felt um throughout an organization. 00:15:18.504 --> 00:15:33.532 Um, and we treat each other pretty poorly, um, things like oh, you know the bad guys, managers who are verbally abusive or abusive in any way, if they're top performers, they say in their role. 00:15:33.532 --> 00:15:37.019 Yet companies say, yeah, we don't tolerate that behavior. 00:15:37.019 --> 00:15:47.956 So it's these little things, both on a macro and micro level, that organizations really have to have the courage to live to their values. 00:15:47.956 --> 00:15:54.301 Now our younger generations are exposing this right, left and center in their organizations. 00:15:54.301 --> 00:16:05.666 You just go on Fishbowl or any other kind of platform and you can see how culture is eroded or that the insides don't match the outsides. 00:16:07.308 --> 00:16:23.860 Totally, yeah, I think, yes, I love ESG from the standpoint that it's elevated, the conversation right, and now we have a terminology for it. 00:16:23.860 --> 00:16:36.179 But I think there's so much BS in ESG, right, and I would say same comment in DEI or any of these acronyms and I think, yeah, I totally agree. 00:16:36.179 --> 00:16:44.259 So much of this is about being authentic with know, being authentic with with saying you know, doing what you say you're going to do, standing up for these values. 00:16:44.259 --> 00:17:04.939 And I totally side note, I didn't, I didn't understand the like, how toxic the statement that we are like a family was until I, you know, I I had I don't know a little bit of a, you know, an eye opening moment where, you know, somebody was like, do you know how dysfunctional my family was? 00:17:05.279 --> 00:17:07.512 Yeah, like, that's exactly how this is. 00:17:07.512 --> 00:17:23.881 So, yeah, you're right, it's like and this, you know, this was a long time ago and I was like, oh, yeah, maybe we shouldn't call it a family because we actually that's not necessarily a positive connotation and it's not actually accurate, right, we're pursuing a common goal. 00:17:23.881 --> 00:17:32.881 You know, we're pursuing common interests, we want to help and support each other, but we are not a family unit. 00:17:32.881 --> 00:17:35.144 Right, we can fire people. 00:17:35.144 --> 00:17:37.134 You know, this is different. 00:17:37.575 --> 00:17:53.463 Yeah, and again, I think that you know this there's there is very little malice when leaders want to talk about these kinds of things and that they, they truly believe it, but they're in very privileged positions, right, right. 00:17:53.463 --> 00:18:11.549 And so I think that we just have to acknowledge that if we, as a company, are really going to set forth purpose, then that means purpose stays alive, because you're talking about the connections of purpose to work and customers and patients and all of that all of the time, right? 00:18:11.549 --> 00:18:23.425 But leaders are pressured around short term outcomes rather than that ethos of a long-term purpose and values. 00:18:23.425 --> 00:18:42.451 Now, they're not at odds with one another, of course, but because of those short-term metrics and goals that a leader has to create in order to show value to the street, you know it is, it is purposes lost, yeah. 00:18:44.034 --> 00:18:46.878 Right, it's only, it's only as important. 00:18:46.878 --> 00:18:51.695 It's only as important as how important you make the measurements Correct, right? 00:18:51.695 --> 00:18:54.026 Or how important that is to the stakeholders? 00:18:54.026 --> 00:18:55.631 Yeah, like the people that, really. 00:18:55.631 --> 00:18:58.579 I mean, that's the reality of a for-profit enterprise, correct? 00:18:58.579 --> 00:19:00.856 You know what are the dollars and cents associated. 00:19:00.856 --> 00:19:06.634 If it's small, while we might care, it's not going to rise to the level of importance of profitability. 00:19:07.319 --> 00:19:10.597 Period end of story right, Unless you're losing the right people. 00:19:10.597 --> 00:19:12.756 Unless you're losing the right people. 00:19:13.317 --> 00:19:20.349 Right, right, okay, I love that, so, okay. 00:19:20.349 --> 00:19:23.597 So I want to maybe jump into a little bit of a tangent, because I feel like I can't go podcast without talking about this. 00:19:23.597 --> 00:19:34.804 So, speaking of BS, how much of the noise around generative AI is real, like, like, like, what? 00:19:34.804 --> 00:19:39.766 What should we be preparing ourselves and our leaders for as it relates to this AI? 00:19:39.766 --> 00:19:53.363 Because I feel like there's so many headlines but when you really unpack it it's not as transformative as everybody thinks it's going to be, as it relates to kind of the humanity within the workplace. 00:19:53.363 --> 00:19:58.061 So what's your perspective on AI and how that kind of interplays with all of these leadership? 00:19:58.509 --> 00:20:03.321 Yeah, I think the advances in technology and AI would certainly fall into this. 00:20:03.321 --> 00:20:43.650 So, whether you're talking about AI or automation, you know, and data that we get from it all goodness right, I think that they can be very powerful tools for good right, powerful tools for good right, but there is such a lack of understanding of how, when, where to use these in the context of not only a company, but in the context of someone's job, their relationship to another area of the company, or their relationship to the end user, customer or ecosystem partners. 00:20:43.650 --> 00:20:47.198 Right, and what what we've done. 00:20:47.198 --> 00:20:57.391 You know we love heroes, whether those are hero CEOs that we put on a pedestal or hero technologies that we put on a pedestal Right. 00:20:57.391 --> 00:20:59.976 We love that Right that we put on a pedestal. 00:20:59.976 --> 00:21:00.777 Right, we love that right. 00:21:00.797 --> 00:21:07.952 However, what we don't do is be curious enough to say how is this really going to work? 00:21:07.952 --> 00:21:15.038 Not only for me as a boomer who really has a hard time integrating new technology, right? 00:21:15.038 --> 00:21:51.887 Or as me relating to a Gen Z who's in my organization, who's using this all the time and, frankly, getting fabulous ideas, but there's so many're going to use AI. 00:21:51.887 --> 00:21:57.558 Here's the context and outcomes we're looking for for AI. 00:21:57.558 --> 00:21:59.863 Here's how it's going to impact your job. 00:21:59.863 --> 00:22:03.094 Here's how we're going to train you around this. 00:22:03.515 --> 00:22:17.839 And oh, by the way, what we need from you is not only using the tool in the right way, but also being smart enough and analytical enough to say what answer I get. 00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:39.679 Question that Is that you know those analytical skills and critical thinking around the tool and to understand the outcome in the context of the impact to you know, whatever product we're developing or whatever customer interaction we're having, those are the things that we have not done. 00:22:39.679 --> 00:22:47.500 Therefore, I think that you're talking about the noise of generative AI and all that it's talking about. 00:22:47.500 --> 00:22:53.806 Well, people are talking about it because nobody can define what does it actually mean, not only to the company, but for the team and for me as an employee? 00:22:53.806 --> 00:22:55.451 And oh, by the way, train me. 00:22:56.335 --> 00:22:58.481 Right, right, which we've already touched on. 00:22:58.481 --> 00:22:59.243 That I love. 00:22:59.243 --> 00:23:08.818 I love the uh, I love tying it down back to like the hero, like like thinking of AI as this hero, almost on this like hero's journey, right, but the reality is like like it is. 00:23:08.818 --> 00:23:10.502 It's it's really really undefined. 00:23:10.502 --> 00:23:11.811 It's a really really broad topic. 00:23:11.811 --> 00:23:16.460 I think my favorite prompt in chat, gpt, is what was your source for this information? 00:23:16.460 --> 00:23:19.724 And it's like yeah, you know, cat, fancycom, right. 00:23:19.744 --> 00:23:21.718 You know, like like you gotta you gotta like. 00:23:22.220 --> 00:23:29.871 It's no different than like Googling something and then hoping that you get a you know, a decent, you know valid response, but you still like. 00:23:29.871 --> 00:23:41.486 The ability to like, question the data and the outcome and use your own kind of you know analytical capabilities is even more critical now than it ever has. 00:23:42.131 --> 00:23:54.941 You know, I think that if you look at the impact of this technology and most technologies that you know are entering into the workforce today, they're not working because people are not being given the time. 00:23:54.941 --> 00:24:04.163 In fact, you know there was a study in the New York Times talked about this that actually AI is more. 00:24:04.163 --> 00:24:10.066 People are rejecting it within their organizations because the fact is that they can't. 00:24:10.066 --> 00:24:11.866 You know, they don't have time to use it. 00:24:13.788 --> 00:24:14.248 Interesting. 00:24:14.288 --> 00:24:16.929 They don't understand how to use it within the context of their job. 00:24:19.074 --> 00:24:37.621 Yeah, yeah, it's really, you know, it's, it's fascinating because, you know, I, I hear that and that makes sense to me and, and you know, just in my own anecdotal experience, you know there's, you know everybody's in such a rush and it's, you know, yeah, well, let's say, I've got this AI tool and I'm supposed to test this out, but you know, I got, I got this, this and this I got to get done. 00:24:37.621 --> 00:24:39.944 I'm just not going to have time, Forget it, I'll just do it myself. 00:24:41.567 --> 00:24:43.491 Or I'll go ask the guy that I always ask. 00:24:43.913 --> 00:25:07.540 Right, right, because it's easier or I just know how to do it, but the reality is this could be an enabler, right, as we talk about the rate of change and some of these challenges, I will tell you as a global HR professional AI has an extremely exciting use case for translation, language and communication. 00:25:07.540 --> 00:25:15.443 Um, you know, I use it to recap almost every single meeting that I do now, and it's pretty darn good at it, right, but? 00:25:15.443 --> 00:25:16.290 But I don't use it. 00:25:16.290 --> 00:25:19.395 I don't use it to make really thoughtful strategic decisions. 00:25:19.395 --> 00:25:36.605 Right, I use it to recap things and then and then prompt, you know, other dialogue and you can use it for translation capability, but it can, like this can, really make you know, the employee experience significantly better if we take the time to figure out how it works. 00:25:37.289 --> 00:25:47.497 Well, and if you take the time to train people, I mean, your schedule probably looks like mine, which I've changed dramatically that you know I am on the West Coast, so I have the curse of the West Coast. 00:25:47.497 --> 00:25:49.040 You know it's 6 am to. 00:25:49.040 --> 00:25:59.400 You know 6 pm, meeting after meeting, after meeting after meeting there's no, and then after 6 pm, getting the work done right and summing up things. 00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.182 That's not sustainable. 00:26:02.182 --> 00:26:06.385 I don't live that way anymore, but it is not sustainable. 00:26:06.385 --> 00:26:40.181 And the reality is, if we are going to use tools like AI or other analytical and insight tools or automation manufacturing, whatever it is, we need to take the time to teach people and to give them opportunities to practice it, and we're just not doing that in the name of productivity, which is why engagement is so low and why you know we're spending $322 billion a year on mental health issues. 00:26:40.181 --> 00:26:41.943 I mean, that is the new pandemic. 00:26:43.190 --> 00:26:43.932 Yeah, yeah. 00:26:43.932 --> 00:26:57.923 So let's, let's talk about that a little bit and I you know, and you talked about you know, you talked about purpose, agency, wellness and connection, and I think, I think my, my thought would be that this wellness and connection piece are so incredibly intertwined. 00:26:58.190 --> 00:26:58.391 Yes. 00:26:58.934 --> 00:27:01.529 And I will like like my own personal experience. 00:27:01.529 --> 00:27:05.101 So I was essentially stuck at home for a year. 00:27:05.101 --> 00:27:18.763 In that time we transitioned from a largely in-person workplace into almost exclusively virtual as it related to meetings and offices. 00:27:18.763 --> 00:27:23.872 But I was just personally lonely. 00:27:23.872 --> 00:27:25.596 I'm an extrovert, right, there's a reason I'm in human resources. 00:27:25.596 --> 00:27:48.795 I actually like people believe it or not, to anybody that's listening to this but you know it's like lonely and tedious to just be sitting at home and there's no break or disconnect between that little desk that you sit at and talk on a laptop on, versus the you know, driving to an office that can actually missed a commute, believe it or not. 00:27:48.795 --> 00:27:53.003 Um, and, and so you know, I'm curious what? 00:27:53.003 --> 00:28:03.939 What advice do you have for us that work in these organizations that that have have this as a component of their workplace and will continue to have it for the you know foreseeable future? 00:28:03.939 --> 00:28:15.471 How can we help support mental health, support that connectedness and, you know, kind of give people what they're asking for in their employment experience? 00:28:15.770 --> 00:28:18.977 Yeah, well, I mean, I think that the basics have to be there, right? 00:28:18.977 --> 00:28:34.164 So if you think of Maslow's hierarchy of needs, the organization has to provide services that people have access to and that are paid for to get mental health services right. 00:28:34.164 --> 00:28:50.951 So I think that that's changed a lot, and you've seen technology really impact that capability Companies like BetterUp, for instance, being able to provide that kind of access is really quite remarkable. 00:28:50.951 --> 00:29:05.195 I think the other thing is is we have to start thinking about what are the systemic issues that are impacting mental health at work, whether in a distributed way or not. 00:29:05.195 --> 00:29:18.458 Those systemic issues and the return to office kind of mandates impact women and people of color more significantly than straight white men. 00:29:18.458 --> 00:29:23.865 Because of child care issues, right, or elder care issues. 00:29:23.865 --> 00:29:28.778 We don't have, you know, access. 00:29:28.778 --> 00:29:35.354 A lot of our companies don't have access for child care stipends or elder care stipends. 00:29:35.354 --> 00:29:49.759 So that is a huge impact In terms of, you know, the ability for individuals to find meaning and connection at work. 00:29:50.241 --> 00:30:01.044 It really goes back to what we've been talking about even before the pandemic that we still haven't executed well on, and that is how do we design work differently, right? 00:30:01.044 --> 00:30:14.540 How do we fundamentally design work differently so that people can have much more flexibility and predictability in their days for either coming into work or not coming into work. 00:30:14.540 --> 00:30:15.903 Who are they? 00:30:15.903 --> 00:30:16.890 You know? 00:30:16.890 --> 00:30:25.305 Are we taking a project-based model where people can work on their work in teams, whether it's in this format or not? 00:30:25.305 --> 00:30:27.053 So we just haven't. 00:30:27.053 --> 00:30:32.903 We've had a failure of imagination and execution when it comes to how we design work. 00:30:34.413 --> 00:30:36.820 I think that's a power, really powerful point. 00:30:36.820 --> 00:30:46.000 A power, really powerful point, um, you know, and I, and I think it's it's, it's interesting because, yeah, this, this isn't, this isn't new. 00:30:46.000 --> 00:30:50.657 You know, people have been asking for flexibility in the workplace for for years. 00:30:50.657 --> 00:30:57.234 Um, I continue to see more and more and more what I like the outside trickling in. 00:30:57.655 --> 00:31:19.817 Right, there used to be such a like, such an attitude, certainly when I first started in my career, that you leave home, at home, and you know, you, you, you shut that door when you come into work and you go back home and you leave, you leave them both separate, right, but the reality is now, everything's integrated, right, there's no, you, you're not leaving it at home, um, you're bringing it with you. 00:31:19.817 --> 00:31:22.267 And, and the reality is, human beings don't operate like that. 00:31:22.267 --> 00:31:27.309 You can't compartmentalize your entire existence and hope to not have some sort of a mental break. 00:31:27.309 --> 00:31:29.173 I mean, it's just not how it worked. 00:31:29.173 --> 00:31:39.811 And so I think we've, we're realizing as a society this isn't working, um, but to your point, we, we have, we have an opportunity now to be creative, to think a little differently and redesign this. 00:31:40.313 --> 00:31:44.936 Yeah, we have generations in the workforce who are in polar opposite thinking around this. 00:31:45.876 --> 00:31:46.758 Yeah, absolutely. 00:31:47.499 --> 00:31:50.401 And who have different skills to navigate it. 00:31:51.422 --> 00:31:52.221 That's fascinating. 00:31:52.221 --> 00:32:00.616 I mean, you know, there's like this great sucking sound to get everybody back in the office now, you know, and it, and it's like, well, it's so I and it, you know, I'll tell a true story. 00:32:00.616 --> 00:32:06.516 So, you know, we had a similar, similar phenomenon in my organization and we brought a bunch of people back. 00:32:06.516 --> 00:32:12.045 And you know it was a, it was a broad initiative and you know, our thought is, well, it's really going to drive engagement. 00:32:12.045 --> 00:32:15.211 Let's get people back collaborating more and collaborating more. 00:32:15.251 --> 00:32:30.049 And somebody came to my office after we started and said, you know, I'm just sitting on virtual teams meetings in a cubicle with, like, nobody else around me, right, like I'm literally doing exactly what I'm like, yeah, maybe we can think a little differently about this, right? 00:32:30.049 --> 00:32:38.176 So if you're in the office, collaborate, like there should be like an intentional collaborative opportunity, and that makes sense to have people in person for some of these things. 00:32:38.176 --> 00:32:41.205 But where it's not required, then why are you requiring it? 00:32:41.205 --> 00:32:45.582 Right, and I, I, my argument is I think it's more about that flexibility piece. 00:32:45.582 --> 00:32:53.386 People don't necessarily care about being in the office, but they want that flexibility in that, that, uh, that agency, as you put it to. 00:32:54.327 --> 00:32:54.607 Yeah. 00:32:54.607 --> 00:33:10.662 And for those who are not in the office, yeah, those who are not in the office, let's be creative and look at the zip codes of where our employees are working remotely and, you know, rent out a table at, or reserve a table at, starbucks for everybody to go work there. 00:33:11.125 --> 00:33:13.574 Right, right I mean there's a lot of ways to do this. 00:33:13.865 --> 00:33:15.428 There's a lot of ways to do this. 00:33:15.428 --> 00:33:18.874 I know that sounds simple, but gosh, you know that does not take. 00:33:18.874 --> 00:33:21.498 You know that doesn't take a lot. 00:33:22.098 --> 00:33:25.986 Right, right, totally, totally agree, so much. 00:33:25.986 --> 00:33:34.548 So my argument on that is like and so I I'm a little bit in the middle on this Like I, I love being in person. 00:33:34.548 --> 00:33:39.195 Personally, I also appreciate that some people don't. 00:33:39.195 --> 00:33:50.256 But there's also like, I think that you just have to be very, very intentional about it, right, like, if you have an intentional collaborative opportunity and you need to be in person, great, go figure it out. 00:33:50.256 --> 00:34:08.338 But where you don't need to, there's a ton of there's like technology enabled tools where you can collaborate really, really heavily asynchronously, yeah, and probably do, probably have people perform better, because maybe someone has their best ideas at two in the morning and somebody does at 10 in the morning. 00:34:08.338 --> 00:34:09.527 Right, you know, there's all these. 00:34:09.527 --> 00:34:12.396 Now you're, now you're actually playing to somebody's. 00:34:12.396 --> 00:34:15.827 You know own individual um, you know capabilities. 00:34:15.827 --> 00:34:17.090 That is 100, yeah, I capabilities. 00:34:17.110 --> 00:34:17.992 That is a hundred percent. 00:34:18.293 --> 00:34:19.976 Yeah, I'm totally, I'm totally with you. 00:34:19.976 --> 00:34:27.284 Well, I told you before we hit record that we would just start getting into the heart of the conversation and not want it to end. 00:34:27.284 --> 00:34:30.394 But unfortunately, here we are. 00:34:30.394 --> 00:34:36.134 So we're going to awkwardly and unfortunately shift into the Rebel HR flash round. 00:34:36.134 --> 00:34:40.891 So, all right, question number one where do we need to rebel? 00:34:42.724 --> 00:34:45.074 Designing new models for leadership. 00:34:49.367 --> 00:35:06.320 I couldn't agree more, and I think you know I love that you have kind of put a roadmap together in this book, and I think it's just so incredibly correct that this is what employees are asking for. 00:35:06.320 --> 00:35:14.235 This is what they've been asking for for a while, but at a certain point this is just going to become a mandate. 00:35:14.235 --> 00:35:21.177 This has to be the new model, because the employers and leaders that don't adopt this approach are just not going to be able to keep people. 00:35:21.177 --> 00:35:22.465 I mean, that's just the reality of it. 00:35:22.626 --> 00:35:29.268 So yeah, we believe that, obviously believe that very strongly in the emotional leader and leader Yep. 00:35:29.809 --> 00:35:31.012 Couldn't, couldn't agree more. 00:35:31.012 --> 00:35:33.737 Question number two who should we be listening to? 00:35:41.244 --> 00:35:43.108 we be listening to Yourself. 00:35:43.108 --> 00:36:02.635 I think we need more time for people to be in reflection and really discernment, not only around what they want for their own lives, but their own desires for their purpose in the work that they do and how they build that connection for themselves, not wait for someone to build it for them. 00:36:04.793 --> 00:36:18.335 I love that, I love that response and in this, you know, especially in this, in this world there's there's a lot of external noise and external factors and influences and I think the people that can get reflective and quiet. 00:36:18.335 --> 00:36:23.697 You know that's necessary for a number of reasons. 00:36:23.697 --> 00:36:29.105 All right, last question how can our listeners connect with you and how can they get their hands on the book? 00:36:30.027 --> 00:36:39.219 Yeah, they can go to our website, smith-monaghancom, and that's where you'll find information on the book. 00:36:39.219 --> 00:36:42.815 You will also find links to the Humanity Studio. 00:36:42.815 --> 00:36:51.775 You can also go straight to thehumanitystudiocom and you will find more about us and the book. 00:36:53.056 --> 00:36:53.438 I love it. 00:36:53.438 --> 00:37:07.081 The book, one more time, is Essential, and the subtitle is how Distributed Teams, generative AI and Global Shifts are Creating a New Human-Powered Leadership. 00:37:07.081 --> 00:37:09.387 We will have a link to that in the show notes. 00:37:09.387 --> 00:37:13.197 Open up your podcast player, click in and get your hands on the book. 00:37:13.197 --> 00:37:16.237 Christy, just an absolutely wonderful conversation. 00:37:16.237 --> 00:37:21.456 Thank you for putting in the time and energy to put this content out there and appreciate your work. 00:37:22.005 --> 00:37:23.931 Thank you, kyle, really had a great time. 00:37:23.931 --> 00:37:24.713 Thank you. 00:37:26.465 --> 00:37:29.715 All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast. 00:37:29.715 --> 00:37:31.719 Big thank you to our guests. 00:37:31.719 --> 00:37:40.431 Follow us on Facebook at Rebel HR podcast, Twitter at RebelGuy, or see our website at RebelHumanResourcescom. 00:37:40.431 --> 00:37:50.652 The views and opinions expressed by RebelHR Podcast are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. 00:37:50.652 --> 00:37:54.211 No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast. 00:37:54.211 --> 00:37:56.364 Baby.