1 00:00:03,024 --> 00:00:06,049 Speaker 2: This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all 2 00:00:06,149 --> 00:00:08,151 things innovation in the people's space. 3 00:00:08,151 --> 00:00:09,614 I'm Kyle Rode. 4 00:00:09,614 --> 00:00:10,595 Let's start the show. 5 00:00:10,595 --> 00:00:16,402 Welcome back, rebel HR community. 6 00:00:16,402 --> 00:00:18,766 We are going to have a fun conversation today. 7 00:00:18,766 --> 00:00:23,673 We have somebody who is a like minded individual as myself. 8 00:00:23,673 --> 00:00:25,516 His name is Ben Eden. 9 00:00:25,516 --> 00:00:29,504 Ben is a best-selling author of a book that is available now 10 00:00:29,925 --> 00:00:31,289 how we See Ourselves. 11 00:00:31,289 --> 00:00:36,348 We're going to be talking all about how we can use how we see 12 00:00:36,389 --> 00:00:39,116 ourselves to be successful in today's world. 13 00:00:39,116 --> 00:00:40,179 Ben, welcome to the show. 14 00:00:40,962 --> 00:00:41,783 Thank you so much, kyle. 15 00:00:41,783 --> 00:00:42,325 Happy to be here. 16 00:00:42,325 --> 00:00:44,991 Well, I'm super happy that you are here. 17 00:00:44,991 --> 00:00:50,850 Finally, we connected probably almost five years ago for the 18 00:00:50,911 --> 00:00:53,542 first time and I think at that point I'm like this guy's 19 00:00:53,622 --> 00:00:56,429 awesome, we should totally have you on the podcast. 20 00:00:56,429 --> 00:00:58,273 And then it just didn't happen. 21 00:00:58,273 --> 00:01:03,426 So I'm so happy it's it's happening now and and um, in 22 00:01:03,466 --> 00:01:06,191 that time that time, I think when we first spoke, you were 23 00:01:06,210 --> 00:01:08,534 just starting your business and just starting to get stuff 24 00:01:08,575 --> 00:01:08,875 launched. 25 00:01:08,875 --> 00:01:14,825 Congratulations on your success and congratulations on this 26 00:01:14,887 --> 00:01:15,046 book. 27 00:01:15,046 --> 00:01:17,445 I'm really excited to talk about it today and just excited 28 00:01:17,465 --> 00:01:18,067 to have you on the show. 29 00:01:18,810 --> 00:01:19,412 Speaker 3: Thank you so much. 30 00:01:19,412 --> 00:01:21,325 Yes, it's definitely been a journey, but a fun one. 31 00:01:22,769 --> 00:01:25,066 Speaker 2: Yeah, likewise, a lot has happened in the last five 32 00:01:25,105 --> 00:01:25,266 years. 33 00:01:25,266 --> 00:01:28,230 I don't even think I'm the same human that you spoke to five 34 00:01:28,271 --> 00:01:28,712 years ago. 35 00:01:28,712 --> 00:01:32,525 I think that's most of us through COVID, right, yeah? 36 00:01:32,525 --> 00:01:35,736 So I want to ask you the question I ask all authors, 37 00:01:35,816 --> 00:01:40,367 which is you know, quite simply, what motivated you to write 38 00:01:40,888 --> 00:01:42,953 this book, why this topic? 39 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:46,206 Speaker 3: Well, I'll jump right into a short story. 40 00:01:46,206 --> 00:01:46,849 Does that sound okay? 41 00:01:47,379 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 2: Perfect. 42 00:01:48,483 --> 00:01:48,742 Speaker 3: Awesome. 43 00:01:48,742 --> 00:01:51,930 So, yeah, I mean, even growing up I never really had the idea 44 00:01:52,171 --> 00:01:55,144 nor the goal to write a book, but it came to me over the last 45 00:01:55,186 --> 00:01:57,980 few years and here's why the book is called how we See 46 00:01:58,019 --> 00:02:01,728 Ourselves, and it's all about how self-perception drives not 47 00:02:01,789 --> 00:02:06,046 only the success that we achieve but the happiness we experience 48 00:02:06,046 --> 00:02:06,569 along the way. 49 00:02:06,569 --> 00:02:11,175 So I learned this when I was an HR executive and I had done 50 00:02:11,235 --> 00:02:14,104 what most of the world teaches on how to achieve success. 51 00:02:14,104 --> 00:02:16,871 I did the bachelor's degree, I did the master's degree, I 52 00:02:16,911 --> 00:02:19,006 became a senior certified professional. 53 00:02:19,006 --> 00:02:22,699 I started as an intern, I grew to manage the department and 54 00:02:22,718 --> 00:02:24,562 helped grow this company to become international. 55 00:02:24,562 --> 00:02:28,408 Yay, success, right, yeah. 56 00:02:28,408 --> 00:02:31,534 And all this was in my 20s and I'm thinking, okay, I made it. 57 00:02:31,534 --> 00:02:36,691 But after a number of things happened and one day my boss 58 00:02:36,730 --> 00:02:39,862 comes to me and says Ben, we have nothing against you, we 59 00:02:39,902 --> 00:02:41,145 just hate HR. 60 00:02:41,145 --> 00:02:47,133 I thought, well, I'm HR, so how am I supposed to take that? 61 00:02:47,133 --> 00:02:49,622 Everything that I've done in these last few years has grown 62 00:02:49,682 --> 00:02:52,087 my identity as an HR professional. 63 00:02:52,087 --> 00:02:56,644 And if you say you hate that, then I understand it to mean you 64 00:02:56,644 --> 00:02:57,887 hate me and everything about me . 65 00:02:59,550 --> 00:03:02,383 And here's what's interesting Society teaches us to chase 66 00:03:02,423 --> 00:03:02,804 results. 67 00:03:02,804 --> 00:03:05,247 I mean, if you think about it when you're going to school, 68 00:03:05,268 --> 00:03:06,770 what are you supposed to get A's ? 69 00:03:06,770 --> 00:03:09,115 And if you get A's, what does that mean about you? 70 00:03:09,115 --> 00:03:12,487 Oh, you're a smart kid, you're an, a student, you're capable 71 00:03:12,508 --> 00:03:13,009 and everything else. 72 00:03:13,009 --> 00:03:14,300 But what if you get an F? 73 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:16,423 What does that mean about you? 74 00:03:16,423 --> 00:03:18,205 Well, it means you're a failure . 75 00:03:18,205 --> 00:03:20,187 At least that's how people interpret it. 76 00:03:20,187 --> 00:03:24,252 But the interesting thing is, an F grade does not mean failure 77 00:03:24,252 --> 00:03:24,252 . 78 00:03:24,252 --> 00:03:25,775 It means a failing grade. 79 00:03:25,775 --> 00:03:29,431 But we don't talk about it that way because we too quickly 80 00:03:29,973 --> 00:03:32,501 identify ourselves based on the results that we have. 81 00:03:34,344 --> 00:03:38,652 So, learning this, even as I was an HR executive in my 20s and 82 00:03:38,693 --> 00:03:39,801 everybody's like dude, you made it. 83 00:03:39,801 --> 00:03:41,807 You got the picture perfect life, traveling the world and 84 00:03:41,828 --> 00:03:42,509 having all the things. 85 00:03:42,509 --> 00:03:45,585 I was suffering in silence because now I thought, well, am 86 00:03:45,685 --> 00:03:45,745 I? 87 00:03:45,745 --> 00:03:50,813 I felt undervalued and unwanted and even a necessary evil. 88 00:03:50,813 --> 00:03:55,133 Yeah, and when you feel this way, when your confidence is 89 00:03:55,193 --> 00:03:59,243 shot, you either underperform or you're overcompensate. 90 00:03:59,243 --> 00:04:03,633 And so I tried those things and I turned to coping mechanisms 91 00:04:03,673 --> 00:04:04,543 to try to feel better. 92 00:04:04,543 --> 00:04:07,122 I ultimately turned to an addiction and of course, those 93 00:04:07,163 --> 00:04:07,564 didn't work. 94 00:04:07,564 --> 00:04:08,965 So I discovered therapy. 95 00:04:09,340 --> 00:04:13,650 I discovered coaching changed the way that I saw myself and 96 00:04:13,669 --> 00:04:15,272 the world I saw started to change. 97 00:04:15,272 --> 00:04:17,447 I started to think well, hold on here. 98 00:04:17,447 --> 00:04:20,269 Even though they hate HR, that doesn't mean I am a terrible 99 00:04:20,288 --> 00:04:20,569 person. 100 00:04:20,569 --> 00:04:23,209 I still have a lot of value to offer. 101 00:04:23,209 --> 00:04:27,843 And what was cool is I turned this around and I went to my 102 00:04:27,863 --> 00:04:29,910 professional friends and I'm like hmm, you're successful. 103 00:04:29,910 --> 00:04:32,807 Have you ever felt unvalued, unwanted, not good enough? 104 00:04:32,807 --> 00:04:35,538 And they're like bro, we often feel this way. 105 00:04:35,538 --> 00:04:36,942 The problem is nobody talks about it. 106 00:04:36,942 --> 00:04:42,572 So then, after four or five years of coaching and it always 107 00:04:42,653 --> 00:04:46,021 comes down to how they see themselves, no matter the result 108 00:04:46,021 --> 00:04:48,750 that they're going for confidence at work, promotions, 109 00:04:49,192 --> 00:04:52,021 making more money, losing weight , whatever it happens to be 110 00:04:52,463 --> 00:04:53,564 always comes down to that. 111 00:04:53,564 --> 00:04:56,552 I started to think oh, why am I have a book in here? 112 00:05:00,362 --> 00:05:01,603 Speaker 2: yeah, so you know it's, it's. 113 00:05:01,603 --> 00:05:04,764 It's funny listening to you talk because I'm literally like, 114 00:05:04,764 --> 00:05:08,726 oh well, you're describing my experience, you know, and it's 115 00:05:09,286 --> 00:05:21,915 very similar, right, and just happened to be at the right 116 00:05:21,935 --> 00:05:24,476 place at the right time, with the right people around me and, 117 00:05:25,357 --> 00:05:28,642 um, in the right circumstances and, you know, found myself in a 118 00:05:28,642 --> 00:05:30,387 successful HR career. 119 00:05:30,387 --> 00:05:33,925 Um, and also found myself surrounded with people that 120 00:05:33,944 --> 00:05:35,971 didn't want me there, right, you know. 121 00:05:35,971 --> 00:05:41,841 Now they liked me as as me, but they hated my profession, they 122 00:05:41,901 --> 00:05:43,146 hated what I stood for. 123 00:05:43,146 --> 00:05:45,343 Right, like you, still got the jokes. 124 00:05:45,343 --> 00:05:48,983 You know, hr is here, we can't have, we can't have fun anymore. 125 00:05:48,983 --> 00:05:51,721 Right, exactly, say what you want to say, you know, and it's, 126 00:05:51,721 --> 00:05:58,062 it's like as much as you want to, like, you know, laugh it off 127 00:05:58,062 --> 00:05:59,886 , it sucks. 128 00:05:59,886 --> 00:06:03,754 Right, and and and I I would say you know, from my standpoint 129 00:06:03,754 --> 00:06:07,483 , very similar experience to you , where you question your 130 00:06:07,502 --> 00:06:10,348 self-worth and you and you wonder what. 131 00:06:10,468 --> 00:06:12,593 You know, who am I? 132 00:06:12,593 --> 00:06:13,882 Because this is my identity. 133 00:06:13,882 --> 00:06:16,769 It was my identity in many cases, in many places and and 134 00:06:17,009 --> 00:06:20,744 certainly in many people's eyes, it is still my identity. 135 00:06:20,744 --> 00:06:23,369 I'm that, I am literally called the HR guy. 136 00:06:23,369 --> 00:06:29,064 You know, in like the, like my circle, but, um, that's part of 137 00:06:29,084 --> 00:06:33,274 what this podcast is about is like like throwing that away, 138 00:06:33,779 --> 00:06:37,226 rejecting that right, rebelling against that, that identity. 139 00:06:37,226 --> 00:06:44,425 And so I I love your approach on um self perception because I 140 00:06:44,526 --> 00:06:49,723 think I think that is so much the root of where the problem 141 00:06:49,783 --> 00:06:54,697 exists, and so I'm fascinated to kind of through your work and 142 00:06:55,119 --> 00:06:57,543 the work you've done with clients and some of your 143 00:06:57,584 --> 00:07:01,711 research and just your own personal self-work. 144 00:07:01,711 --> 00:07:06,788 What are the steps now that we're in a safe enough space to 145 00:07:06,829 --> 00:07:07,331 admit this? 146 00:07:07,331 --> 00:07:11,012 What are the steps where we can start to build ourselves back 147 00:07:11,173 --> 00:07:15,648 up from this unfair external perception that so many people 148 00:07:15,708 --> 00:07:16,490 have about us? 149 00:07:17,180 --> 00:07:18,865 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great question. 150 00:07:18,865 --> 00:07:21,110 So we'll break this apart a little bit and I'll give you two 151 00:07:21,110 --> 00:07:24,665 stories to relate and then we'll get into this solution. 152 00:07:24,665 --> 00:07:27,872 And, as you were mentioning before this episode, you know, 153 00:07:28,233 --> 00:07:33,204 unfortunately media and tv shows put paint hr in a negative 154 00:07:33,264 --> 00:07:33,464 light. 155 00:07:33,464 --> 00:07:36,612 Right, say, the office and, and you know, hr professionals 156 00:07:36,632 --> 00:07:37,620 there, and it's terrible. 157 00:07:37,620 --> 00:07:40,529 When I first got into hr and everybody said that first of all 158 00:07:40,529 --> 00:07:42,161 I hadn't watched the episodes, I'm like what are you talking 159 00:07:42,182 --> 00:07:42,382 about? 160 00:07:42,382 --> 00:07:43,103 Like who's? 161 00:07:43,124 --> 00:07:43,404 Speaker 2: Toby. 162 00:07:43,404 --> 00:07:46,831 And then you watch it and you're like, oh, come on, man, 163 00:07:46,851 --> 00:07:47,954 yeah for real. 164 00:07:48,620 --> 00:07:51,329 Speaker 3: So then that's their funny definition of HR. 165 00:07:51,329 --> 00:07:55,040 And then what they see as reality is the CEO is like, ah, 166 00:07:55,060 --> 00:07:56,225 they're just a cost center. 167 00:07:56,225 --> 00:07:59,483 Your coworkers are like, I have no idea what HR does. 168 00:07:59,483 --> 00:08:02,466 And all the employees say, oh, hr is just a bottleneck. 169 00:08:02,466 --> 00:08:05,408 So it's like well shoot, everybody thinks this. 170 00:08:05,408 --> 00:08:07,331 So what am I supposed to think about myself? 171 00:08:07,331 --> 00:08:19,901 And unless we have a very strong foundation, support and 172 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:21,348 way of locking in our strong identity, then it's easy to 173 00:08:21,387 --> 00:08:21,990 believe what people think. 174 00:08:21,990 --> 00:08:23,257 Then you just go to work and say, well, I guess I'll handle 175 00:08:23,276 --> 00:08:25,262 payroll and I guess I'll do compliance and I guess I'll just 176 00:08:25,262 --> 00:08:26,425 be here so you don't get sued. 177 00:08:26,425 --> 00:08:29,011 Yeah, you know, and that's no fun. 178 00:08:29,011 --> 00:08:30,132 Yeah, that sucks. 179 00:08:30,132 --> 00:08:32,528 And you know what's interesting ? 180 00:08:32,528 --> 00:08:33,410 I think this is funny. 181 00:08:33,410 --> 00:08:36,240 I speak to a lot of hr conferences, or yeah, hr 182 00:08:36,260 --> 00:08:37,563 professionals at these conferences. 183 00:08:37,563 --> 00:08:42,942 And boy do hr professionals party after the conference what 184 00:08:42,961 --> 00:08:44,105 are you talking about, ben? 185 00:08:44,144 --> 00:08:45,847 Speaker 2: I I've never seen that. 186 00:08:47,552 --> 00:08:49,443 Speaker 3: And I'm thinking well , yeah, this is the one time 187 00:08:49,464 --> 00:08:51,009 they actually get to let loose and have fun. 188 00:08:51,009 --> 00:08:54,500 Everywhere else they have to be HR right, totally. 189 00:08:54,601 --> 00:08:56,769 Speaker 2: If you want to see crazy, go to an HR conference, 190 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,525 put HR in the wild and don't let anybody else from their company 191 00:09:01,525 --> 00:09:04,602 go with them, and then just watch it unfold. 192 00:09:04,602 --> 00:09:06,909 It's fascinating, exactly. 193 00:09:06,909 --> 00:09:09,839 And if you're listening to this podcast and you don't know what 194 00:09:09,839 --> 00:09:14,227 I'm talking about, you need to get out more exactly conference, 195 00:09:14,227 --> 00:09:18,581 you'll see what I mean and then I'll share a recent example. 196 00:09:18,741 --> 00:09:20,668 Speaker 3: So I've been to a few conferences with johnny c 197 00:09:20,707 --> 00:09:24,315 taylor, who's the president of national sherm right, and he 198 00:09:24,355 --> 00:09:28,169 shared a story, a few years ago actually, when he met with a 199 00:09:28,210 --> 00:09:31,582 group of very high level CEOs and just asking them hey, what 200 00:09:31,602 --> 00:09:33,957 do you think about your HR professionals and how's it going 201 00:09:33,957 --> 00:09:34,480 and everything else. 202 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:38,649 And they said my HR professional is one of the most 203 00:09:38,708 --> 00:09:40,894 important employees in my company. 204 00:09:40,894 --> 00:09:47,784 The problem is they don't see that and so powerful statement 205 00:09:47,826 --> 00:09:48,226 right there. 206 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:51,787 Yeah, so some people are saying it. 207 00:09:51,787 --> 00:09:54,893 Unfortunately, a lot of us live in this situation where the 208 00:09:54,940 --> 00:09:56,163 boss just doesn't appreciate it. 209 00:09:56,163 --> 00:09:59,691 I do think we're making progress, where people are 210 00:09:59,751 --> 00:10:03,525 starting to appreciate HR and because we're in a place in this 211 00:10:03,525 --> 00:10:09,062 world where we are set up to step up, if that makes sense. 212 00:10:09,062 --> 00:10:13,339 Because literally last week I was in a meeting with Johnny C 213 00:10:13,359 --> 00:10:18,164 Taylor talking about AI and human intelligence. 214 00:10:18,164 --> 00:10:20,527 Guess what they were saying? 215 00:10:20,527 --> 00:10:24,892 That AI is not a tech, not an IT problem. 216 00:10:24,892 --> 00:10:30,442 It is an HR situation because we get to see how to integrate 217 00:10:30,543 --> 00:10:33,350 human intelligence with all this other intelligence that's 218 00:10:33,390 --> 00:10:37,606 coming down the line and that's crucial because we can step into 219 00:10:37,606 --> 00:10:41,274 a place of extreme value on the strategic level. 220 00:10:41,274 --> 00:10:44,586 But if we have a self-perception of, well, I'm 221 00:10:44,626 --> 00:10:47,644 just HR, let somebody else deal with it, we're missing an 222 00:10:47,724 --> 00:10:48,267 opportunity. 223 00:10:51,282 --> 00:10:52,687 Speaker 2: I love that and I couldn't agree more. 224 00:10:52,687 --> 00:10:56,986 We're supposed to be the experts on how to work. 225 00:10:56,986 --> 00:11:01,225 Sorry, I'm distracted. 226 00:11:01,225 --> 00:11:03,749 There's somebody carrying a really cute baby outside the 227 00:11:03,788 --> 00:11:04,009 window. 228 00:11:04,009 --> 00:11:06,287 Anyways, talk about human intelligence. 229 00:11:06,287 --> 00:11:07,210 I'm like what is that? 230 00:11:09,043 --> 00:11:10,267 Speaker 3: And since we're going to edit this, I'm going to 231 00:11:10,287 --> 00:11:10,609 pause. 232 00:11:10,609 --> 00:11:13,227 Your image is frozen, but can you hear me and see me? 233 00:11:13,227 --> 00:11:14,899 Okay, I can hear you and see you, yeah. 234 00:11:16,844 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 2: It will, like the Zencaster will lag it and then 235 00:11:21,321 --> 00:11:23,225 it will catch back up. 236 00:11:23,225 --> 00:11:25,871 So you're good, okay, perfect, which is funny. 237 00:11:25,871 --> 00:11:29,544 I'm like literally plugged in in my office fiber optic 238 00:11:29,585 --> 00:11:30,846 internet, so whatever. 239 00:11:30,846 --> 00:11:37,034 Anyways, no, okay, rewind, Edit this out. 240 00:11:37,034 --> 00:11:38,096 Thank you, okay. 241 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:44,210 I could not agree more about the importance of HR taking 242 00:11:44,269 --> 00:11:45,711 ownership of things like AI. 243 00:11:45,711 --> 00:11:46,173 It's a great. 244 00:11:46,173 --> 00:11:49,344 It's a great like kind of a case study on like. 245 00:11:49,344 --> 00:11:54,514 Hey, we need to like, own this and become don't understand it. 246 00:11:54,514 --> 00:11:59,429 We need to become the experts on it, because we're the experts 247 00:11:59,429 --> 00:12:01,802 on how to do stuff, or we should be right. 248 00:12:01,802 --> 00:12:04,476 We should be, we should be making sure people understand 249 00:12:04,839 --> 00:12:07,587 what their job expectations are, how we, how work is designed, 250 00:12:07,648 --> 00:12:12,162 how's the org structure design and how ai fits into that in the 251 00:12:12,162 --> 00:12:14,990 day-to-day, and how we can integrate that and, oh, by the 252 00:12:15,029 --> 00:12:18,245 way, how we can keep people from freaking out that they're not 253 00:12:18,306 --> 00:12:20,471 like losing their jobs if ai starts to like. 254 00:12:20,491 --> 00:12:22,903 There's all these different aspects of ai that we just need 255 00:12:22,923 --> 00:12:25,368 to embrace and help people figure out. 256 00:12:25,368 --> 00:12:27,451 Right, I'm totally, totally with you. 257 00:12:27,451 --> 00:12:29,174 That's, that's a really great example of like. 258 00:12:29,174 --> 00:12:32,067 We have an opportunity to step up right like. 259 00:12:32,067 --> 00:12:35,162 There's so many, there's so many of those other situations 260 00:12:35,201 --> 00:12:37,586 that have happened just in the last five years. 261 00:12:37,586 --> 00:12:40,793 Right, like we, like, like I. 262 00:12:40,793 --> 00:12:44,708 I like to say all the time like , okay, if it's not us stepping 263 00:12:44,769 --> 00:12:48,664 up and helping our organizations out, then who is right? 264 00:12:48,664 --> 00:12:52,293 Like we're supposed to be the experts on people and all this, 265 00:12:53,014 --> 00:12:53,535 most of this stuff. 266 00:12:53,535 --> 00:12:58,051 People problems, right, or or rather, people, challenges and 267 00:12:58,110 --> 00:13:01,322 opportunities for us to help figure out yeah, and to your 268 00:13:01,363 --> 00:13:04,109 point, if we don't step up, guess what Somebody else will. 269 00:13:04,168 --> 00:13:05,350 Speaker 3: Who's much less qualified? 270 00:13:05,350 --> 00:13:08,966 Right, right, won't solve the problems as they need to be. 271 00:13:12,344 --> 00:13:14,902 Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I think you know, 272 00:13:14,902 --> 00:13:18,850 I think the statement you made about those CEOs right that 273 00:13:19,009 --> 00:13:25,500 where they find HR extremely important is how can we take 274 00:13:25,581 --> 00:13:30,145 that kind of that mindset and how can we overlay that with our 275 00:13:30,145 --> 00:13:33,948 perceptions of ourselves and help ourselves show up with the 276 00:13:33,989 --> 00:13:37,832 confidence and capability to step into that role that our 277 00:13:37,873 --> 00:13:40,475 leadership team actually needs us to be stepping into? 278 00:13:41,317 --> 00:13:41,836 Speaker 3: Yes, good. 279 00:13:41,836 --> 00:13:43,105 So I'm going to get to that right now. 280 00:13:43,105 --> 00:13:46,323 I'm going to catch on some words that you used, because 281 00:13:46,344 --> 00:13:47,926 what I do as a coach, I mean it's very powerful. 282 00:13:47,926 --> 00:13:50,971 Powerful the language that we use, because we have so much 283 00:13:51,431 --> 00:13:53,934 definition associated with the words we use. 284 00:13:53,934 --> 00:13:58,889 So, in other words, you had said, hey, we are the hr experts 285 00:13:58,889 --> 00:13:59,993 or we are hr. 286 00:13:59,993 --> 00:14:04,743 That can have a powerful positive connotation. 287 00:14:04,743 --> 00:14:08,871 It can also have a negative connotation I'm hr because it 288 00:14:08,912 --> 00:14:11,063 has just so much weight to that right. 289 00:14:11,645 --> 00:14:16,076 Yeah, I would invite us not to just define ourselves by I am hr 290 00:14:16,076 --> 00:14:16,076 . 291 00:14:16,076 --> 00:14:21,929 I would first define ourselves as experts who do hr. 292 00:14:21,929 --> 00:14:24,514 Okay, let me explain what that means. 293 00:14:24,514 --> 00:14:28,706 I mean, ceo has a title that usually the weight is wow, 294 00:14:28,725 --> 00:14:29,879 they're in charge of a bunch of things. 295 00:14:29,879 --> 00:14:33,326 Even the title CFO often has okay, they're the money guy, 296 00:14:33,486 --> 00:14:39,043 right, but HR, as is, sometimes has that negative connotation. 297 00:14:39,083 --> 00:14:42,692 So what I would very much encourage and this is what I 298 00:14:42,751 --> 00:14:47,005 teach you first establish who you are, separate from that 299 00:14:47,046 --> 00:14:52,542 title, separate from the role of HR, and then you can show up as 300 00:14:52,542 --> 00:14:57,692 the confident professional who happens to run the HR side of 301 00:14:57,712 --> 00:14:58,113 the business. 302 00:14:58,113 --> 00:15:03,469 When you do that, you can come to the room and see Kyle as Kyle 303 00:15:03,469 --> 00:15:06,761 and so-and-so as so-and-so, and you're all human beings who 304 00:15:06,841 --> 00:15:10,788 happen to have a different angle on things finances, operations, 305 00:15:10,788 --> 00:15:13,113 human resources, awesome. 306 00:15:13,113 --> 00:15:16,644 And when you do that, then you separate yourself from the 307 00:15:17,105 --> 00:15:21,113 connotations, whatever they may be, of HR and then you can say 308 00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:24,909 look from my place of confidence and expertise, here's how we 309 00:15:24,950 --> 00:15:25,731 need to handle things. 310 00:15:25,731 --> 00:15:30,650 It separates whether I'm going to take it personally or not. 311 00:15:30,650 --> 00:15:33,587 It allows you to make better decisions because it's not so 312 00:15:33,668 --> 00:15:34,650 tied to your worth. 313 00:15:34,650 --> 00:15:38,240 It says this is the best decision for the company and I 314 00:15:38,299 --> 00:15:42,447 can say that with confidence because I've worked on my own 315 00:15:42,528 --> 00:15:43,208 self-confidence. 316 00:15:45,494 --> 00:15:45,894 Speaker 2: I love it. 317 00:15:45,894 --> 00:15:54,388 I love it and I think that, interestingly, when I got into 318 00:15:54,427 --> 00:15:58,390 human resources, I did not go to school for HR, I fell into it. 319 00:15:58,390 --> 00:16:00,513 I have a business degree. 320 00:16:00,513 --> 00:16:09,381 I was in operations and IT before human resources and I've 321 00:16:09,402 --> 00:16:10,755 always identified myself as I'm just I'm a business professional 322 00:16:10,755 --> 00:16:13,405 that happens to do HR right, like that's kind of that's. 323 00:16:13,405 --> 00:16:17,284 That's kind of how I've described myself as I've and I 324 00:16:17,304 --> 00:16:17,485 would. 325 00:16:17,927 --> 00:16:20,576 I would tell you that the business leaders that I've 326 00:16:20,615 --> 00:16:24,284 interacted with and worked with over the years have appreciated 327 00:16:24,325 --> 00:16:28,852 that my perspective and perception is specifically from 328 00:16:28,893 --> 00:16:33,284 a business, like a holistic business lens, not just like a 329 00:16:33,365 --> 00:16:36,745 very short-sighted, like it's just HR right, like a ton of 330 00:16:36,884 --> 00:16:37,125 view. 331 00:16:37,125 --> 00:16:40,816 But the reality is, I think so much of that is because that's 332 00:16:40,836 --> 00:16:43,167 just the identity that I've projected from the beginning. 333 00:16:43,167 --> 00:16:47,149 Right, I'm doing the same thing that most HR professionals do. 334 00:16:47,149 --> 00:16:52,586 I'm focusing on compliance and making sure we're paying 335 00:16:52,788 --> 00:16:54,029 equitably and fairly. 336 00:16:54,029 --> 00:16:54,931 You know, trying to. 337 00:16:54,931 --> 00:16:57,575 You know be a good coach, identify great talent, make sure 338 00:16:57,575 --> 00:16:58,456 I have great recruiting practice. 339 00:16:58,456 --> 00:17:00,883 I'm doing all the same stuff, but I'm showing up in a way 340 00:17:01,403 --> 00:17:06,369 where my identity is broader than the role that I play, right 341 00:17:06,369 --> 00:17:11,175 , and so I think like anchoring to that difference of identity. 342 00:17:11,175 --> 00:17:16,353 While it might seem really subtle, it's a big deal right. 343 00:17:16,353 --> 00:17:20,861 And eventually, if you identify as a certain thing, eventually 344 00:17:21,041 --> 00:17:24,384 you start to believe it right, even if you don't, like, 345 00:17:24,584 --> 00:17:27,069 necessarily know exactly what that means. 346 00:17:28,133 --> 00:17:32,702 Speaker 3: Yeah, now I'll add to that with a little example and 347 00:17:32,722 --> 00:17:32,823 story. 348 00:17:32,823 --> 00:17:34,848 In my book, how we See Ourselves, I talk about what's 349 00:17:34,888 --> 00:17:39,047 called the Eden model and it breaks down sections of how our 350 00:17:39,086 --> 00:17:40,148 brain works. 351 00:17:40,148 --> 00:17:43,807 Most of us focus on results, so we focus on behaviors and say, 352 00:17:43,827 --> 00:17:47,641 well, since I'm HR, I have to do this and even in business, you 353 00:17:47,661 --> 00:17:49,247 have to do this to get this result. 354 00:17:49,247 --> 00:17:55,682 Work more hours, whatever it is . 355 00:17:55,682 --> 00:17:57,185 But we don't talk about are the emotions we experience, the 356 00:17:57,205 --> 00:17:58,368 thoughts we have and everything else. 357 00:17:58,368 --> 00:18:00,460 So the point that I'm getting at is by using the model 358 00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:04,147 correctly, which is upside down compared to what most people 359 00:18:04,710 --> 00:18:05,191 experience. 360 00:18:05,191 --> 00:18:14,800 Is you not experience? 361 00:18:14,800 --> 00:18:16,183 Is you identify yourself as you want to be, as the person who's 362 00:18:16,183 --> 00:18:16,865 going to get those results? 363 00:18:16,865 --> 00:18:16,984 First? 364 00:18:16,984 --> 00:18:19,049 Most people say, okay, the result, I'm going to chase it, 365 00:18:19,570 --> 00:18:21,201 but based on who I am, it's not going to work. 366 00:18:21,561 --> 00:18:25,049 So here's the example she just read my book. 367 00:18:25,049 --> 00:18:27,442 I've never coached her, but she read my book and she's like 368 00:18:27,461 --> 00:18:31,890 this is amazing, because about 10 years ago she was very active 369 00:18:31,890 --> 00:18:32,510 in the gym. 370 00:18:32,510 --> 00:18:35,382 She had grown up being an athlete and loved being athletic 371 00:18:35,382 --> 00:18:39,571 , but for the last eight years she had struggled to go to the 372 00:18:39,612 --> 00:18:39,792 gym. 373 00:18:39,792 --> 00:18:44,051 She had struggled to just be active and be proud of her body. 374 00:18:44,051 --> 00:18:47,083 She had done all of the important things reading the 375 00:18:47,123 --> 00:18:50,402 books, trying the diets, doing the things but nothing was 376 00:18:50,422 --> 00:18:55,132 working until after she read my book and learned the importance 377 00:18:55,192 --> 00:18:55,794 of identity. 378 00:18:55,794 --> 00:18:59,846 She simply told herself I am an athlete. 379 00:18:59,846 --> 00:19:05,521 And because she saw herself that way and believed it when 380 00:19:05,561 --> 00:19:08,366 she told me this story, she had been going consistently to the 381 00:19:08,406 --> 00:19:10,029 gym for the last 13 weeks. 382 00:19:10,029 --> 00:19:13,623 Awesome, so it's super powerful . 383 00:19:13,623 --> 00:19:16,691 How we define ourselves influences everything else that 384 00:19:16,711 --> 00:19:16,951 we do. 385 00:19:16,951 --> 00:19:21,711 To your point, if I'm just HR, how are you going to act? 386 00:19:21,711 --> 00:19:26,733 Or if I'm a business expert who happens to run HR, how are you 387 00:19:26,753 --> 00:19:27,777 going to act differently there? 388 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:28,559 Speaker 1: Yeah. 389 00:19:28,923 --> 00:19:32,203 Speaker 3: Or if you are a very confident human being who makes 390 00:19:32,243 --> 00:19:35,111 a difference in this world, who has a passion for human behavior 391 00:19:35,111 --> 00:19:38,807 and how it can impact the business results, who happens to 392 00:19:38,807 --> 00:19:39,868 be in charge of HR. 393 00:19:39,868 --> 00:19:43,362 Imagine the results that that type of person will get. 394 00:19:43,362 --> 00:19:44,964 Can you sense the difference? 395 00:19:45,665 --> 00:19:50,233 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah it's a really, really powerful thing. 396 00:19:50,233 --> 00:19:52,282 You know I think it's fascinating and there's um, you 397 00:19:52,644 --> 00:19:56,359 know there's there's a litany of research around this and I know 398 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:57,241 I know you're a parent. 399 00:19:57,241 --> 00:20:02,372 You know, like, if your kids identify as being a certain way 400 00:20:02,512 --> 00:20:06,744 or not, their behavior is in, in , like, and the outcomes is 401 00:20:06,805 --> 00:20:09,769 actually is actually drastically different, like, so you know, 402 00:20:09,809 --> 00:20:13,674 if you like, like for me, like, I tell my kids, you know, we are 403 00:20:13,674 --> 00:20:17,892 kind, we are roads, that's who we are, we are kind as people. 404 00:20:17,892 --> 00:20:21,883 You know that that that's a really powerful ripple effect 405 00:20:21,942 --> 00:20:23,586 for them to believe Right. 406 00:20:23,586 --> 00:20:27,252 And you know, hopefully, if I'm doing everything else right, 407 00:20:27,373 --> 00:20:29,698 hopefully they'd turn out to be kind human beings when they grow 408 00:20:29,698 --> 00:20:29,857 up. 409 00:20:29,857 --> 00:20:33,226 Right, like, that's that's the hope and I think it's the same. 410 00:20:33,226 --> 00:20:37,084 It's that same concept that that so often I think we trick 411 00:20:37,144 --> 00:20:39,391 ourselves into being less effective than we are. 412 00:20:40,201 --> 00:20:42,643 Or I think the other thing I'm I'm fascinated to get your 413 00:20:42,683 --> 00:20:46,201 opinion on this is I think in HR we have a lot of people who are 414 00:20:46,201 --> 00:20:46,643 people pleasers. 415 00:20:46,643 --> 00:20:48,467 I think in HR we have a lot of people who are people pleasers. 416 00:20:48,467 --> 00:21:18,192 Naturally, like, people want to be liked and so they kind of 417 00:21:18,212 --> 00:21:21,615 modify their behavior to reflect how people that long term, 418 00:21:21,635 --> 00:21:25,047 you're going to die inside Because you're not actually 419 00:21:25,067 --> 00:21:26,839 going to be yourself, you're not actually going to be authentic, 420 00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:30,814 you're going to kind of be just a wet noodle and kind of 421 00:21:31,194 --> 00:21:32,961 flowing with the wind and people aren't going to know who you 422 00:21:33,182 --> 00:21:33,281 are. 423 00:21:33,281 --> 00:21:37,172 So so for those of us that are maybe struggle with that, where 424 00:21:37,192 --> 00:21:41,335 it's like you're trying to get people to like you or or or 425 00:21:41,355 --> 00:21:43,141 you're aware that there's a negative perception, you're 426 00:21:43,161 --> 00:21:44,182 trying to modify that. 427 00:21:44,182 --> 00:21:48,211 How can we, how can we do that without, like, losing our core 428 00:21:48,250 --> 00:21:49,814 identity or our sense of self? 429 00:21:52,298 --> 00:21:55,246 Speaker 3: so the question is how can you adapt to people and 430 00:21:55,286 --> 00:21:57,372 enjoy being with people without losing your sense of self? 431 00:21:57,372 --> 00:21:57,701 Was that? 432 00:21:57,721 --> 00:21:58,082 Speaker 1: the question. 433 00:21:58,502 --> 00:22:02,977 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay well , what it comes down to first is 434 00:22:02,977 --> 00:22:05,742 the hard work of knowing who you are in the first place. 435 00:22:05,742 --> 00:22:10,792 And I say it's hard, or can be hard, because, unfortunately, 436 00:22:10,853 --> 00:22:14,326 most of us have gone through society being defined by our 437 00:22:14,667 --> 00:22:18,701 experiences, our results and our relationships, and we've had to 438 00:22:18,701 --> 00:22:22,611 change color so many times to fit the mold of wherever we are. 439 00:22:22,611 --> 00:22:25,523 And it's exhausting and to your point, at the end of the day, 440 00:22:25,545 --> 00:22:29,724 you're like I have no idea who I am, or I've identified myself 441 00:22:29,805 --> 00:22:32,632 so much with this role because this role is currently working, 442 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:37,155 but then, when they consider leaving or changing their career 443 00:22:37,155 --> 00:22:39,301 or changing whatever it is they're like, there's no way I 444 00:22:39,343 --> 00:22:42,169 can do that because I have no idea who I am outside of this 445 00:22:42,490 --> 00:22:43,532 role or this title. 446 00:22:43,532 --> 00:22:48,267 So it does take work and I won't say there's a magic answer 447 00:22:48,267 --> 00:22:48,587 to it. 448 00:22:48,587 --> 00:22:52,019 So it does take work and I won't say there's a magic answer 449 00:22:52,019 --> 00:22:55,244 to it, but I would invite you to ponder after you listen to 450 00:22:55,285 --> 00:22:57,269 this podcast and just ponder this question who am I outside 451 00:22:57,349 --> 00:22:58,472 of my HR role? 452 00:22:58,472 --> 00:23:01,522 And you will probably. 453 00:23:01,522 --> 00:23:07,344 It might be some serious introspection, you may not like 454 00:23:07,423 --> 00:23:12,182 it, it may be uncomfortable and I will say, and it will be very 455 00:23:12,343 --> 00:23:12,903 rewarding. 456 00:23:12,903 --> 00:23:15,770 Okay, I would invite you to journal. 457 00:23:15,770 --> 00:23:18,644 Write these things down, get it out of your head and see what 458 00:23:18,664 --> 00:23:20,559 you write, and if you're thinking this wow, this is a 459 00:23:20,580 --> 00:23:21,423 bunch of negative stuff. 460 00:23:21,923 --> 00:23:26,040 Okay, awareness is first and then we can decide well, who do 461 00:23:26,060 --> 00:23:28,367 you want to be outside of your HR role? 462 00:23:28,367 --> 00:23:31,828 And that's where some powerful transformation can occur. 463 00:23:31,828 --> 00:23:35,039 Where you can add to it is supporting or surrounding 464 00:23:35,140 --> 00:23:36,163 yourself with the right people. 465 00:23:36,163 --> 00:23:38,709 If you have a community, be with them. 466 00:23:38,709 --> 00:23:41,965 Help, you know, be in a place where people can see you outside 467 00:23:41,965 --> 00:23:42,808 of your HR role. 468 00:23:42,808 --> 00:23:45,136 That helps decide an identity. 469 00:23:45,136 --> 00:23:47,742 If you believe in a higher power, you know God can tell you 470 00:23:47,742 --> 00:23:48,704 those things right. 471 00:23:48,704 --> 00:23:52,892 So there's a lot of elements that can help you understand who 472 00:23:52,892 --> 00:23:54,835 you are outside of your HR role . 473 00:23:54,835 --> 00:23:58,768 But it is crucial to understand that because otherwise, back to 474 00:23:58,768 --> 00:23:59,229 your point. 475 00:23:59,229 --> 00:24:01,762 Sometimes we define HR as well. 476 00:24:01,803 --> 00:24:03,688 I got into HR because I'm a people person. 477 00:24:03,688 --> 00:24:07,143 I like being with people, I want them to be happy at work, I 478 00:24:07,143 --> 00:24:10,768 want to make the termination not feel so bad and it's well, 479 00:24:10,807 --> 00:24:14,634 that doesn't work, yeah, so knowing who you are outside of 480 00:24:14,653 --> 00:24:19,508 the HR role helps you perform even better in the HR role. 481 00:24:19,508 --> 00:24:23,241 And how do you adapt to people Well because you understand 482 00:24:23,281 --> 00:24:23,784 yourself. 483 00:24:23,784 --> 00:24:26,997 You have a much better understanding of others and you 484 00:24:27,037 --> 00:24:28,607 can respond in. 485 00:24:28,607 --> 00:24:31,787 You know some adaptable ways in the how to win friends and 486 00:24:31,967 --> 00:24:32,669 influence people. 487 00:24:32,669 --> 00:24:35,801 Right, you can say great, I know how to listen, I know how 488 00:24:35,842 --> 00:24:39,130 to ask questions, I know how to talk about what they like and 489 00:24:39,170 --> 00:24:42,320 all of the tactics that are important without you having to 490 00:24:42,340 --> 00:24:43,063 change who you are. 491 00:24:43,063 --> 00:24:45,346 Yeah, I love that. 492 00:24:46,747 --> 00:24:51,910 Speaker 2: I think it's really interesting because there's so 493 00:24:51,990 --> 00:24:59,394 much power in being authentic, right and so, but but we're 494 00:24:59,414 --> 00:25:12,469 we're seeking something right, and and I think, in general, you 495 00:25:12,469 --> 00:25:16,076 know that that's that's most people that like are extroverted 496 00:25:16,076 --> 00:25:17,868 , right, like we're just trying to connect with others. 497 00:25:17,868 --> 00:25:20,856 It's how we gain energy, it's it's you know, it's, it can be 498 00:25:20,924 --> 00:25:22,147 really really enjoyable. 499 00:25:22,147 --> 00:25:25,977 But, but in order to show up for others, you have to be able 500 00:25:25,997 --> 00:25:27,729 to show up for yourself, right like. 501 00:25:27,729 --> 00:25:34,406 You have to know who you are, and you know an example that 502 00:25:34,426 --> 00:25:34,688 I'll use. 503 00:25:34,688 --> 00:25:37,994 So you know, I used to be the guy that was like super 504 00:25:38,055 --> 00:25:40,809 professional at work, like I didn't blend personal 505 00:25:40,871 --> 00:25:45,372 professional at all, and you know, I showed up kind of, and I 506 00:25:45,372 --> 00:25:48,907 played the part really well, right, but that's really what it 507 00:25:48,907 --> 00:25:49,087 was. 508 00:25:49,087 --> 00:25:52,056 It was like I felt like I was an actor, right. 509 00:25:56,924 --> 00:25:58,233 And what's interesting is, through a couple pivotal moments 510 00:25:58,233 --> 00:26:00,747 and through community work, through some volunteer work, I 511 00:26:00,788 --> 00:26:04,874 had a couple light bulbs go off where it's like hey, I want to 512 00:26:04,933 --> 00:26:09,010 fight for this cause, for this nonprofit, and I'm going to do 513 00:26:09,070 --> 00:26:10,655 that and I'm not going to be ashamed of it. 514 00:26:10,655 --> 00:26:13,092 I'm going to share it broadly within the organization that I'm 515 00:26:13,092 --> 00:26:13,554 doing it. 516 00:26:13,554 --> 00:26:14,236 Guess what happened. 517 00:26:14,236 --> 00:26:20,358 Other people started to find benefit in that or saw me as a 518 00:26:20,439 --> 00:26:22,544 human being, and then I was getting brought into other 519 00:26:22,585 --> 00:26:22,724 things. 520 00:26:23,266 --> 00:26:26,912 My career actually took off specifically because I chose to 521 00:26:26,971 --> 00:26:32,065 start to be kind of my myself within the context of this 522 00:26:32,144 --> 00:26:36,394 professional persona that I was building, and so you know, I 523 00:26:36,454 --> 00:26:41,992 could not agree more that once you find that thing that makes 524 00:26:42,032 --> 00:26:45,986 you tech and who you are, and you start to do that work, good 525 00:26:46,066 --> 00:26:49,973 things happen, both personally and professionally, and for me, 526 00:26:50,054 --> 00:26:53,647 it's that is kind of the secret to success and and at the end of 527 00:26:53,647 --> 00:26:58,057 the day, I, I think I, I think you would agree with this I 528 00:26:58,097 --> 00:27:02,092 think that's how you make work more fun and enjoyable, right, 529 00:27:02,112 --> 00:27:07,852 when you can actually show up as your whole self and and and and 530 00:27:07,852 --> 00:27:12,122 do that work in a way that that's like fulfilling your own 531 00:27:12,702 --> 00:27:16,294 self identity yeah, you know, that's great. 532 00:27:16,314 --> 00:27:18,601 Speaker 3: This thought came to my mind and it's this aspect of 533 00:27:19,063 --> 00:27:21,048 a different mindset, but also an element of fun. 534 00:27:21,048 --> 00:27:24,976 So try this instead of introducing yourself and saying 535 00:27:25,016 --> 00:27:29,932 hey, I am hr, you say I am kyle, my name is kyle, I do hr. 536 00:27:29,932 --> 00:27:32,018 That feels so different. 537 00:27:32,018 --> 00:27:35,279 And then somebody's like whoa kyle, tell me about you and not 538 00:27:35,299 --> 00:27:35,862 just, oh, I'm hr. 539 00:27:35,862 --> 00:27:36,786 What the heck does that mean? 540 00:27:36,786 --> 00:27:41,316 Or I already know what that means I couldn't agree more. 541 00:27:41,336 --> 00:27:43,548 Speaker 2: I one of the one of the best facilitator tricks I've 542 00:27:43,548 --> 00:27:45,594 ever seen, and it's not even a trick, it's just like. 543 00:27:45,594 --> 00:27:46,435 It's just who he is. 544 00:27:46,435 --> 00:27:49,569 Uh, one of my, one of my dear friends and and he's been a 545 00:27:49,589 --> 00:27:52,255 guest on this podcast before his name's Bob Kelleher. 546 00:27:52,255 --> 00:27:58,313 Before he does a presentation, he literally shows a slide with 547 00:27:58,413 --> 00:28:03,025 him about him and his family and he's a family man and he talks 548 00:28:03,105 --> 00:28:06,875 about he just talks about who he is as a human being, before he 549 00:28:06,914 --> 00:28:17,067 talks about all the accolades and he's got all the accolades 550 00:28:17,228 --> 00:28:18,771 and all the books and the bestsellers and and the story 551 00:28:18,791 --> 00:28:18,912 career. 552 00:28:18,912 --> 00:28:21,499 But it's it's bob, the man that gets people to buy in before 553 00:28:21,519 --> 00:28:23,284 bob, the you know guy who wrote literally wrote the book on 554 00:28:23,384 --> 00:28:26,150 employee engagement, right, you know, it's like that's exciting 555 00:28:26,170 --> 00:28:28,474 and interesting for you know, for me, just because it's like 556 00:28:28,555 --> 00:28:30,199 I'm like, wow, that's really cool. 557 00:28:30,199 --> 00:28:36,173 But I love Bob because of who Bob is, not because of what Bob 558 00:28:36,213 --> 00:28:36,694 has done. 559 00:28:36,996 --> 00:28:40,306 To go circle all the way back to where we started this, right, 560 00:28:40,405 --> 00:28:45,666 it's about who you are, not your accomplishments, right, not the 561 00:28:45,666 --> 00:28:46,970 grade that you get in school. 562 00:28:46,970 --> 00:28:50,176 So I love that. 563 00:28:50,176 --> 00:28:57,269 I love that, that, that approach, um, so so we're, we're 564 00:28:57,269 --> 00:28:58,413 coming kind of, you know, towards, towards the end of our 565 00:28:58,434 --> 00:28:58,695 time together. 566 00:28:58,695 --> 00:28:59,922 I warned you when we hit record , I'm like we're going to just 567 00:28:59,942 --> 00:29:01,386 get warmed up and then we're going to, then it's going to be 568 00:29:01,446 --> 00:29:02,229 over, right? 569 00:29:02,229 --> 00:29:04,755 Um, we're going to shift gears. 570 00:29:04,755 --> 00:29:12,886 I want to, I'm fascinated to get your, to get your, uh, your 571 00:29:12,906 --> 00:29:13,728 response to the, the rebel hr flash round. 572 00:29:13,728 --> 00:29:14,009 Are you ready? 573 00:29:14,009 --> 00:29:14,449 Ready, all right. 574 00:29:14,449 --> 00:29:20,019 So, question number one given what we've talked about, where 575 00:29:20,058 --> 00:29:32,417 do we need to rebel? 576 00:29:33,538 --> 00:29:35,984 Speaker 3: okay, yes, exactly what we're, what we've been 577 00:29:36,005 --> 00:29:36,465 talking about. 578 00:29:36,465 --> 00:29:40,035 You need to rebel on this way that hr is seen but, most 579 00:29:40,095 --> 00:29:41,526 importantly, how you see yourself. 580 00:29:41,526 --> 00:29:47,492 No longer define yourself as I'm just the hr guy or HR person 581 00:29:47,492 --> 00:29:47,492 . 582 00:29:47,492 --> 00:29:53,161 Right, I am Ben, who happens to do HR and watch what happens. 583 00:29:55,527 --> 00:29:55,887 Speaker 2: I love it. 584 00:29:55,887 --> 00:29:59,657 Question number two who should we be listening to? 585 00:30:02,785 --> 00:30:03,326 Speaker 3: Broadly. 586 00:30:03,326 --> 00:30:05,953 You should be listening to the people who believe in you and 587 00:30:05,993 --> 00:30:09,204 who know who you are as a person , so that identity is super 588 00:30:09,305 --> 00:30:09,746 strong. 589 00:30:09,746 --> 00:30:12,512 And then, just as an example, since I brought him up in the 590 00:30:12,532 --> 00:30:16,569 podcast, johnny C Taylor, he believes in you as a person and 591 00:30:16,990 --> 00:30:17,571 what you can do. 592 00:30:20,439 --> 00:30:20,740 Speaker 2: Love it. 593 00:30:20,740 --> 00:30:23,987 Final question how can our listeners connect with you? 594 00:30:25,971 --> 00:30:27,894 Speaker 3: You know, go to my website howwesee see 595 00:30:27,973 --> 00:30:29,135 ourselvescom. 596 00:30:29,135 --> 00:30:32,167 That's where you can get a copy of the book and how you can 597 00:30:32,208 --> 00:30:32,809 connect with me. 598 00:30:32,809 --> 00:30:34,934 I on a lot of social media. 599 00:30:34,934 --> 00:30:37,972 I do a lot of work so you can watch me speak, you can connect 600 00:30:38,073 --> 00:30:41,786 to me in some group sessions and I can help address what you're 601 00:30:41,806 --> 00:30:44,874 going through and help strengthen that identity that 602 00:30:44,933 --> 00:30:47,808 allows you to not only get better results but, most 603 00:30:47,868 --> 00:30:49,873 importantly, the experience happiness along the way. 604 00:30:49,893 --> 00:30:51,897 Speaker 2: I love it. 605 00:30:51,897 --> 00:30:54,653 We will have all that information in the show notes, 606 00:30:54,673 --> 00:30:57,653 so take a moment, open up your podcast player and click on in 607 00:30:58,385 --> 00:30:58,707 the book. 608 00:30:58,707 --> 00:31:00,393 Again is how we See Ourselves. 609 00:31:00,393 --> 00:31:05,751 It is available now where books are sold Best-selling title. 610 00:31:05,751 --> 00:31:09,964 And congratulations again to Ben on all your success and 611 00:31:09,984 --> 00:31:12,051 thanks for spending just a few minutes with us here today. 612 00:31:12,874 --> 00:31:13,675 Speaker 1: Thank, you so much, Kyle. 613 00:31:13,675 --> 00:31:19,036 All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast. 614 00:31:19,036 --> 00:31:21,031 Big thank you to our guests. 615 00:31:21,031 --> 00:31:26,372 Follow us on Facebook at Rebel HR Podcast, Twitter at Rebel HR 616 00:31:26,412 --> 00:31:29,752 Guy, or see our website at rebelHumanResourcescom. 617 00:31:29,752 --> 00:31:33,520 The views and opinions expressed by Rebel HR Podcast 618 00:31:33,540 --> 00:31:35,708 are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the 619 00:31:35,728 --> 00:31:39,636 official policy or position of any of the organizations that we 620 00:31:39,636 --> 00:31:40,018 represent. 621 00:31:40,018 --> 00:31:43,532 No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast.