WEBVTT 00:00:03.024 --> 00:00:08.151 This is the Rebel HR podcast, the podcast about all things innovation in the people's space. 00:00:08.151 --> 00:00:09.614 I'm Kyle Rode. 00:00:09.614 --> 00:00:10.595 Let's start the show. 00:00:10.595 --> 00:00:16.402 Welcome back, rebel HR community. 00:00:16.402 --> 00:00:18.766 We are going to have a fun conversation today. 00:00:18.766 --> 00:00:23.673 We have somebody who is a like minded individual as myself. 00:00:23.673 --> 00:00:25.516 His name is Ben Eden. 00:00:25.516 --> 00:00:31.289 Ben is a best-selling author of a book that is available now how we See Ourselves. 00:00:31.289 --> 00:00:39.116 We're going to be talking all about how we can use how we see ourselves to be successful in today's world. 00:00:39.116 --> 00:00:40.179 Ben, welcome to the show. 00:00:40.962 --> 00:00:41.783 Thank you so much, kyle. 00:00:41.783 --> 00:00:42.325 Happy to be here. 00:00:42.325 --> 00:00:44.991 Well, I'm super happy that you are here. 00:00:44.991 --> 00:00:56.429 Finally, we connected probably almost five years ago for the first time and I think at that point I'm like this guy's awesome, we should totally have you on the podcast. 00:00:56.429 --> 00:00:58.273 And then it just didn't happen. 00:00:58.273 --> 00:01:08.875 So I'm so happy it's it's happening now and and um, in that time that time, I think when we first spoke, you were just starting your business and just starting to get stuff launched. 00:01:08.875 --> 00:01:15.046 Congratulations on your success and congratulations on this book. 00:01:15.046 --> 00:01:18.067 I'm really excited to talk about it today and just excited to have you on the show. 00:01:18.810 --> 00:01:19.412 Thank you so much. 00:01:19.412 --> 00:01:21.325 Yes, it's definitely been a journey, but a fun one. 00:01:22.769 --> 00:01:25.266 Yeah, likewise, a lot has happened in the last five years. 00:01:25.266 --> 00:01:28.712 I don't even think I'm the same human that you spoke to five years ago. 00:01:28.712 --> 00:01:32.525 I think that's most of us through COVID, right, yeah? 00:01:32.525 --> 00:01:42.953 So I want to ask you the question I ask all authors, which is you know, quite simply, what motivated you to write this book, why this topic? 00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:46.206 Well, I'll jump right into a short story. 00:01:46.206 --> 00:01:46.849 Does that sound okay? 00:01:47.379 --> 00:01:47.760 Perfect. 00:01:48.483 --> 00:01:48.742 Awesome. 00:01:48.742 --> 00:02:06.569 So, yeah, I mean, even growing up I never really had the idea nor the goal to write a book, but it came to me over the last few years and here's why the book is called how we See Ourselves, and it's all about how self-perception drives not only the success that we achieve but the happiness we experience along the way. 00:02:06.569 --> 00:02:14.104 So I learned this when I was an HR executive and I had done what most of the world teaches on how to achieve success. 00:02:14.104 --> 00:02:19.006 I did the bachelor's degree, I did the master's degree, I became a senior certified professional. 00:02:19.006 --> 00:02:24.562 I started as an intern, I grew to manage the department and helped grow this company to become international. 00:02:24.562 --> 00:02:28.408 Yay, success, right, yeah. 00:02:28.408 --> 00:02:31.534 And all this was in my 20s and I'm thinking, okay, I made it. 00:02:31.534 --> 00:02:41.145 But after a number of things happened and one day my boss comes to me and says Ben, we have nothing against you, we just hate HR. 00:02:41.145 --> 00:02:47.133 I thought, well, I'm HR, so how am I supposed to take that? 00:02:47.133 --> 00:02:52.087 Everything that I've done in these last few years has grown my identity as an HR professional. 00:02:52.087 --> 00:02:57.887 And if you say you hate that, then I understand it to mean you hate me and everything about me. 00:02:59.550 --> 00:03:02.804 And here's what's interesting Society teaches us to chase results. 00:03:02.804 --> 00:03:06.770 I mean, if you think about it when you're going to school, what are you supposed to get A's? 00:03:06.770 --> 00:03:09.115 And if you get A's, what does that mean about you? 00:03:09.115 --> 00:03:13.009 Oh, you're a smart kid, you're an, a student, you're capable and everything else. 00:03:13.009 --> 00:03:14.300 But what if you get an F? 00:03:14.300 --> 00:03:16.423 What does that mean about you? 00:03:16.423 --> 00:03:18.205 Well, it means you're a failure. 00:03:18.205 --> 00:03:20.187 At least that's how people interpret it. 00:03:20.187 --> 00:03:24.252 But the interesting thing is, an F grade does not mean failure. 00:03:24.252 --> 00:03:25.775 It means a failing grade. 00:03:25.775 --> 00:03:32.501 But we don't talk about it that way because we too quickly identify ourselves based on the results that we have. 00:03:34.344 --> 00:03:39.801 So, learning this, even as I was an HR executive in my 20s and everybody's like dude, you made it. 00:03:39.801 --> 00:03:42.509 You got the picture perfect life, traveling the world and having all the things. 00:03:42.509 --> 00:03:45.745 I was suffering in silence because now I thought, well, am I? 00:03:45.745 --> 00:03:50.813 I felt undervalued and unwanted and even a necessary evil. 00:03:50.813 --> 00:03:59.243 Yeah, and when you feel this way, when your confidence is shot, you either underperform or you're overcompensate. 00:03:59.243 --> 00:04:04.543 And so I tried those things and I turned to coping mechanisms to try to feel better. 00:04:04.543 --> 00:04:07.564 I ultimately turned to an addiction and of course, those didn't work. 00:04:07.564 --> 00:04:08.965 So I discovered therapy. 00:04:09.340 --> 00:04:15.272 I discovered coaching changed the way that I saw myself and the world I saw started to change. 00:04:15.272 --> 00:04:17.447 I started to think well, hold on here. 00:04:17.447 --> 00:04:20.569 Even though they hate HR, that doesn't mean I am a terrible person. 00:04:20.569 --> 00:04:23.209 I still have a lot of value to offer. 00:04:23.209 --> 00:04:29.910 And what was cool is I turned this around and I went to my professional friends and I'm like hmm, you're successful. 00:04:29.910 --> 00:04:32.807 Have you ever felt unvalued, unwanted, not good enough? 00:04:32.807 --> 00:04:35.538 And they're like bro, we often feel this way. 00:04:35.538 --> 00:04:36.942 The problem is nobody talks about it. 00:04:36.942 --> 00:04:53.564 So then, after four or five years of coaching and it always comes down to how they see themselves, no matter the result that they're going for confidence at work, promotions, making more money, losing weight, whatever it happens to be always comes down to that. 00:04:53.564 --> 00:04:56.552 I started to think oh, why am I have a book in here? 00:05:00.362 --> 00:05:01.603 yeah, so you know it's, it's. 00:05:01.603 --> 00:05:30.387 It's funny listening to you talk because I'm literally like, oh well, you're describing my experience, you know, and it's very similar, right, and just happened to be at the right place at the right time, with the right people around me and, um, in the right circumstances and, you know, found myself in a successful HR career. 00:05:30.387 --> 00:05:35.971 Um, and also found myself surrounded with people that didn't want me there, right, you know. 00:05:35.971 --> 00:05:43.146 Now they liked me as as me, but they hated my profession, they hated what I stood for. 00:05:43.146 --> 00:05:45.343 Right, like you, still got the jokes. 00:05:45.343 --> 00:05:48.983 You know, hr is here, we can't have, we can't have fun anymore. 00:05:48.983 --> 00:05:59.886 Right, exactly, say what you want to say, you know, and it's, it's like as much as you want to, like, you know, laugh it off, it sucks. 00:05:59.886 --> 00:06:10.348 Right, and and and I I would say you know, from my standpoint, very similar experience to you, where you question your self-worth and you and you wonder what. 00:06:10.468 --> 00:06:12.593 You know, who am I? 00:06:12.593 --> 00:06:13.882 Because this is my identity. 00:06:13.882 --> 00:06:20.744 It was my identity in many cases, in many places and and certainly in many people's eyes, it is still my identity. 00:06:20.744 --> 00:06:23.369 I'm that, I am literally called the HR guy. 00:06:23.369 --> 00:06:37.226 You know, in like the, like my circle, but, um, that's part of what this podcast is about is like like throwing that away, rejecting that right, rebelling against that, that identity. 00:06:37.226 --> 00:07:01.711 And so I I love your approach on um self perception because I think I think that is so much the root of where the problem exists, and so I'm fascinated to kind of through your work and the work you've done with clients and some of your research and just your own personal self-work. 00:07:01.711 --> 00:07:07.331 What are the steps now that we're in a safe enough space to admit this? 00:07:07.331 --> 00:07:16.490 What are the steps where we can start to build ourselves back up from this unfair external perception that so many people have about us? 00:07:17.180 --> 00:07:18.865 Yeah, that's a great question. 00:07:18.865 --> 00:07:24.665 So we'll break this apart a little bit and I'll give you two stories to relate and then we'll get into this solution. 00:07:24.665 --> 00:07:33.464 And, as you were mentioning before this episode, you know, unfortunately media and tv shows put paint hr in a negative light. 00:07:33.464 --> 00:07:37.620 Right, say, the office and, and you know, hr professionals there, and it's terrible. 00:07:37.620 --> 00:07:42.382 When I first got into hr and everybody said that first of all I hadn't watched the episodes, I'm like what are you talking about? 00:07:42.382 --> 00:07:43.103 Like who's? 00:07:43.124 --> 00:07:43.404 Toby. 00:07:43.404 --> 00:07:47.954 And then you watch it and you're like, oh, come on, man, yeah for real. 00:07:48.620 --> 00:07:51.329 So then that's their funny definition of HR. 00:07:51.329 --> 00:07:56.225 And then what they see as reality is the CEO is like, ah, they're just a cost center. 00:07:56.225 --> 00:07:59.483 Your coworkers are like, I have no idea what HR does. 00:07:59.483 --> 00:08:02.466 And all the employees say, oh, hr is just a bottleneck. 00:08:02.466 --> 00:08:05.408 So it's like well shoot, everybody thinks this. 00:08:05.408 --> 00:08:07.331 So what am I supposed to think about myself? 00:08:07.331 --> 00:08:21.990 And unless we have a very strong foundation, support and way of locking in our strong identity, then it's easy to believe what people think. 00:08:21.990 --> 00:08:26.425 Then you just go to work and say, well, I guess I'll handle payroll and I guess I'll do compliance and I guess I'll just be here so you don't get sued. 00:08:26.425 --> 00:08:29.011 Yeah, you know, and that's no fun. 00:08:29.011 --> 00:08:30.132 Yeah, that sucks. 00:08:30.132 --> 00:08:32.528 And you know what's interesting? 00:08:32.528 --> 00:08:33.410 I think this is funny. 00:08:33.410 --> 00:08:37.563 I speak to a lot of hr conferences, or yeah, hr professionals at these conferences. 00:08:37.563 --> 00:08:44.105 And boy do hr professionals party after the conference what are you talking about, ben? 00:08:44.144 --> 00:08:45.847 I I've never seen that. 00:08:47.552 --> 00:08:51.009 And I'm thinking well, yeah, this is the one time they actually get to let loose and have fun. 00:08:51.009 --> 00:08:54.500 Everywhere else they have to be HR right, totally. 00:08:54.601 --> 00:09:04.602 If you want to see crazy, go to an HR conference, put HR in the wild and don't let anybody else from their company go with them, and then just watch it unfold. 00:09:04.602 --> 00:09:06.909 It's fascinating, exactly. 00:09:06.909 --> 00:09:18.581 And if you're listening to this podcast and you don't know what I'm talking about, you need to get out more exactly conference, you'll see what I mean and then I'll share a recent example. 00:09:18.741 --> 00:09:34.480 So I've been to a few conferences with johnny c taylor, who's the president of national sherm right, and he shared a story, a few years ago actually, when he met with a group of very high level CEOs and just asking them hey, what do you think about your HR professionals and how's it going and everything else. 00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:40.894 And they said my HR professional is one of the most important employees in my company. 00:09:40.894 --> 00:09:48.226 The problem is they don't see that and so powerful statement right there. 00:09:48.720 --> 00:09:51.787 Yeah, so some people are saying it. 00:09:51.787 --> 00:09:56.163 Unfortunately, a lot of us live in this situation where the boss just doesn't appreciate it. 00:09:56.163 --> 00:10:09.062 I do think we're making progress, where people are starting to appreciate HR and because we're in a place in this world where we are set up to step up, if that makes sense. 00:10:09.062 --> 00:10:18.164 Because literally last week I was in a meeting with Johnny C Taylor talking about AI and human intelligence. 00:10:18.164 --> 00:10:20.527 Guess what they were saying? 00:10:20.527 --> 00:10:24.892 That AI is not a tech, not an IT problem. 00:10:24.892 --> 00:10:41.274 It is an HR situation because we get to see how to integrate human intelligence with all this other intelligence that's coming down the line and that's crucial because we can step into a place of extreme value on the strategic level. 00:10:41.274 --> 00:10:48.267 But if we have a self-perception of, well, I'm just HR, let somebody else deal with it, we're missing an opportunity. 00:10:51.282 --> 00:10:52.687 I love that and I couldn't agree more. 00:10:52.687 --> 00:10:56.986 We're supposed to be the experts on how to work. 00:10:56.986 --> 00:11:01.225 Sorry, I'm distracted. 00:11:01.225 --> 00:11:04.009 There's somebody carrying a really cute baby outside the window. 00:11:04.009 --> 00:11:06.287 Anyways, talk about human intelligence. 00:11:06.287 --> 00:11:07.210 I'm like what is that? 00:11:09.043 --> 00:11:10.609 And since we're going to edit this, I'm going to pause. 00:11:10.609 --> 00:11:13.227 Your image is frozen, but can you hear me and see me? 00:11:13.227 --> 00:11:14.899 Okay, I can hear you and see you, yeah. 00:11:16.844 --> 00:11:23.225 It will, like the Zencaster will lag it and then it will catch back up. 00:11:23.225 --> 00:11:25.871 So you're good, okay, perfect, which is funny. 00:11:25.871 --> 00:11:30.846 I'm like literally plugged in in my office fiber optic internet, so whatever. 00:11:30.846 --> 00:11:37.034 Anyways, no, okay, rewind, Edit this out. 00:11:37.034 --> 00:11:38.096 Thank you, okay. 00:11:39.240 --> 00:11:45.711 I could not agree more about the importance of HR taking ownership of things like AI. 00:11:45.711 --> 00:11:46.173 It's a great. 00:11:46.173 --> 00:11:49.344 It's a great like kind of a case study on like. 00:11:49.344 --> 00:11:54.514 Hey, we need to like, own this and become don't understand it. 00:11:54.514 --> 00:12:01.802 We need to become the experts on it, because we're the experts on how to do stuff, or we should be right. 00:12:01.802 --> 00:12:20.471 We should be, we should be making sure people understand what their job expectations are, how we, how work is designed, how's the org structure design and how ai fits into that in the day-to-day, and how we can integrate that and, oh, by the way, how we can keep people from freaking out that they're not like losing their jobs if ai starts to like. 00:12:20.491 --> 00:12:25.368 There's all these different aspects of ai that we just need to embrace and help people figure out. 00:12:25.368 --> 00:12:27.451 Right, I'm totally, totally with you. 00:12:27.451 --> 00:12:29.174 That's, that's a really great example of like. 00:12:29.174 --> 00:12:32.067 We have an opportunity to step up right like. 00:12:32.067 --> 00:12:37.586 There's so many, there's so many of those other situations that have happened just in the last five years. 00:12:37.586 --> 00:12:40.793 Right, like we, like, like I. 00:12:40.793 --> 00:12:48.664 I like to say all the time like, okay, if it's not us stepping up and helping our organizations out, then who is right? 00:12:48.664 --> 00:12:53.535 Like we're supposed to be the experts on people and all this, most of this stuff. 00:12:53.535 --> 00:13:04.109 People problems, right, or or rather, people, challenges and opportunities for us to help figure out yeah, and to your point, if we don't step up, guess what Somebody else will. 00:13:04.168 --> 00:13:05.350 Who's much less qualified? 00:13:05.350 --> 00:13:08.966 Right, right, won't solve the problems as they need to be. 00:13:12.344 --> 00:13:40.475 Yeah, I couldn't agree more and I think you know, I think the statement you made about those CEOs right that where they find HR extremely important is how can we take that kind of that mindset and how can we overlay that with our perceptions of ourselves and help ourselves show up with the confidence and capability to step into that role that our leadership team actually needs us to be stepping into? 00:13:41.317 --> 00:13:41.836 Yes, good. 00:13:41.836 --> 00:13:43.105 So I'm going to get to that right now. 00:13:43.105 --> 00:13:47.926 I'm going to catch on some words that you used, because what I do as a coach, I mean it's very powerful. 00:13:47.926 --> 00:13:53.934 Powerful the language that we use, because we have so much definition associated with the words we use. 00:13:53.934 --> 00:13:59.993 So, in other words, you had said, hey, we are the hr experts or we are hr. 00:13:59.993 --> 00:14:04.743 That can have a powerful positive connotation. 00:14:04.743 --> 00:14:11.063 It can also have a negative connotation I'm hr because it has just so much weight to that right. 00:14:11.645 --> 00:14:16.076 Yeah, I would invite us not to just define ourselves by I am hr. 00:14:16.076 --> 00:14:21.929 I would first define ourselves as experts who do hr. 00:14:21.929 --> 00:14:24.514 Okay, let me explain what that means. 00:14:24.514 --> 00:14:29.879 I mean, ceo has a title that usually the weight is wow, they're in charge of a bunch of things. 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:39.043 Even the title CFO often has okay, they're the money guy, right, but HR, as is, sometimes has that negative connotation. 00:14:39.083 --> 00:14:58.113 So what I would very much encourage and this is what I teach you first establish who you are, separate from that title, separate from the role of HR, and then you can show up as the confident professional who happens to run the HR side of the business. 00:14:58.113 --> 00:15:13.113 When you do that, you can come to the room and see Kyle as Kyle and so-and-so as so-and-so, and you're all human beings who happen to have a different angle on things finances, operations, human resources, awesome. 00:15:13.113 --> 00:15:25.731 And when you do that, then you separate yourself from the connotations, whatever they may be, of HR and then you can say look from my place of confidence and expertise, here's how we need to handle things. 00:15:25.731 --> 00:15:30.650 It separates whether I'm going to take it personally or not. 00:15:30.650 --> 00:15:34.650 It allows you to make better decisions because it's not so tied to your worth. 00:15:34.650 --> 00:15:43.208 It says this is the best decision for the company and I can say that with confidence because I've worked on my own self-confidence. 00:15:45.494 --> 00:15:45.894 I love it. 00:15:45.894 --> 00:15:58.390 I love it and I think that, interestingly, when I got into human resources, I did not go to school for HR, I fell into it. 00:15:58.390 --> 00:16:00.513 I have a business degree. 00:16:00.513 --> 00:16:13.405 I was in operations and IT before human resources and I've always identified myself as I'm just I'm a business professional that happens to do HR right, like that's kind of that's. 00:16:13.405 --> 00:16:17.485 That's kind of how I've described myself as I've and I would. 00:16:17.927 --> 00:16:37.125 I would tell you that the business leaders that I've interacted with and worked with over the years have appreciated that my perspective and perception is specifically from a business, like a holistic business lens, not just like a very short-sighted, like it's just HR right, like a ton of view. 00:16:37.125 --> 00:16:43.167 But the reality is, I think so much of that is because that's just the identity that I've projected from the beginning. 00:16:43.167 --> 00:16:47.149 Right, I'm doing the same thing that most HR professionals do. 00:16:47.149 --> 00:16:54.029 I'm focusing on compliance and making sure we're paying equitably and fairly. 00:16:54.029 --> 00:16:54.931 You know, trying to. 00:16:54.931 --> 00:16:58.456 You know be a good coach, identify great talent, make sure I have great recruiting practice. 00:16:58.456 --> 00:17:11.175 I'm doing all the same stuff, but I'm showing up in a way where my identity is broader than the role that I play, right, and so I think like anchoring to that difference of identity. 00:17:11.175 --> 00:17:16.353 While it might seem really subtle, it's a big deal right. 00:17:16.353 --> 00:17:27.069 And eventually, if you identify as a certain thing, eventually you start to believe it right, even if you don't, like, necessarily know exactly what that means. 00:17:28.133 --> 00:17:32.823 Yeah, now I'll add to that with a little example and story. 00:17:32.823 --> 00:17:40.148 In my book, how we See Ourselves, I talk about what's called the Eden model and it breaks down sections of how our brain works. 00:17:40.148 --> 00:17:49.247 Most of us focus on results, so we focus on behaviors and say, well, since I'm HR, I have to do this and even in business, you have to do this to get this result. 00:17:49.247 --> 00:17:55.682 Work more hours, whatever it is. 00:17:55.682 --> 00:17:58.368 But we don't talk about are the emotions we experience, the thoughts we have and everything else. 00:17:58.368 --> 00:18:05.191 So the point that I'm getting at is by using the model correctly, which is upside down compared to what most people experience. 00:18:05.191 --> 00:18:14.800 Is you not experience? 00:18:14.800 --> 00:18:16.865 Is you identify yourself as you want to be, as the person who's going to get those results? 00:18:16.865 --> 00:18:16.984 First? 00:18:16.984 --> 00:18:21.201 Most people say, okay, the result, I'm going to chase it, but based on who I am, it's not going to work. 00:18:21.561 --> 00:18:25.049 So here's the example she just read my book. 00:18:25.049 --> 00:18:32.510 I've never coached her, but she read my book and she's like this is amazing, because about 10 years ago she was very active in the gym. 00:18:32.510 --> 00:18:39.792 She had grown up being an athlete and loved being athletic, but for the last eight years she had struggled to go to the gym. 00:18:39.792 --> 00:18:44.051 She had struggled to just be active and be proud of her body. 00:18:44.051 --> 00:18:55.794 She had done all of the important things reading the books, trying the diets, doing the things but nothing was working until after she read my book and learned the importance of identity. 00:18:55.794 --> 00:18:59.846 She simply told herself I am an athlete. 00:18:59.846 --> 00:19:10.029 And because she saw herself that way and believed it when she told me this story, she had been going consistently to the gym for the last 13 weeks. 00:19:10.029 --> 00:19:13.623 Awesome, so it's super powerful. 00:19:13.623 --> 00:19:16.951 How we define ourselves influences everything else that we do. 00:19:16.951 --> 00:19:21.711 To your point, if I'm just HR, how are you going to act? 00:19:21.711 --> 00:19:27.777 Or if I'm a business expert who happens to run HR, how are you going to act differently there? 00:19:28.440 --> 00:19:28.559 Yeah. 00:19:28.923 --> 00:19:39.868 Or if you are a very confident human being who makes a difference in this world, who has a passion for human behavior and how it can impact the business results, who happens to be in charge of HR. 00:19:39.868 --> 00:19:43.362 Imagine the results that that type of person will get. 00:19:43.362 --> 00:19:44.964 Can you sense the difference? 00:19:45.665 --> 00:19:50.233 Yeah, yeah it's a really, really powerful thing. 00:19:50.233 --> 00:19:57.241 You know I think it's fascinating and there's um, you know there's there's a litany of research around this and I know I know you're a parent. 00:19:57.241 --> 00:20:17.892 You know, like, if your kids identify as being a certain way or not, their behavior is in, in, like, and the outcomes is actually is actually drastically different, like, so you know, if you like, like for me, like, I tell my kids, you know, we are kind, we are roads, that's who we are, we are kind as people. 00:20:17.892 --> 00:20:23.586 You know that that that's a really powerful ripple effect for them to believe Right. 00:20:23.586 --> 00:20:29.857 And you know, hopefully, if I'm doing everything else right, hopefully they'd turn out to be kind human beings when they grow up. 00:20:29.857 --> 00:20:33.226 Right, like, that's that's the hope and I think it's the same. 00:20:33.226 --> 00:20:39.391 It's that same concept that that so often I think we trick ourselves into being less effective than we are. 00:20:40.201 --> 00:20:46.643 Or I think the other thing I'm I'm fascinated to get your opinion on this is I think in HR we have a lot of people who are people pleasers. 00:20:46.643 --> 00:20:48.467 I think in HR we have a lot of people who are people pleasers. 00:20:48.467 --> 00:21:33.281 Naturally, like, people want to be liked and so they kind of modify their behavior to reflect how people that long term, you're going to die inside Because you're not actually going to be yourself, you're not actually going to be authentic, you're going to kind of be just a wet noodle and kind of flowing with the wind and people aren't going to know who you are. 00:21:33.281 --> 00:21:44.182 So so for those of us that are maybe struggle with that, where it's like you're trying to get people to like you or or or you're aware that there's a negative perception, you're trying to modify that. 00:21:44.182 --> 00:21:49.814 How can we, how can we do that without, like, losing our core identity or our sense of self? 00:21:52.298 --> 00:21:57.372 so the question is how can you adapt to people and enjoy being with people without losing your sense of self? 00:21:57.372 --> 00:21:57.701 Was that? 00:21:57.721 --> 00:21:58.082 the question. 00:21:58.502 --> 00:22:05.742 Yeah, yeah, okay well, what it comes down to first is the hard work of knowing who you are in the first place. 00:22:05.742 --> 00:22:22.611 And I say it's hard, or can be hard, because, unfortunately, most of us have gone through society being defined by our experiences, our results and our relationships, and we've had to change color so many times to fit the mold of wherever we are. 00:22:22.611 --> 00:22:43.532 And it's exhausting and to your point, at the end of the day, you're like I have no idea who I am, or I've identified myself so much with this role because this role is currently working, but then, when they consider leaving or changing their career or changing whatever it is they're like, there's no way I can do that because I have no idea who I am outside of this role or this title. 00:22:43.532 --> 00:22:48.587 So it does take work and I won't say there's a magic answer to it. 00:22:48.587 --> 00:22:58.472 So it does take work and I won't say there's a magic answer to it, but I would invite you to ponder after you listen to this podcast and just ponder this question who am I outside of my HR role? 00:22:58.472 --> 00:23:01.522 And you will probably. 00:23:01.522 --> 00:23:12.903 It might be some serious introspection, you may not like it, it may be uncomfortable and I will say, and it will be very rewarding. 00:23:12.903 --> 00:23:15.770 Okay, I would invite you to journal. 00:23:15.770 --> 00:23:21.423 Write these things down, get it out of your head and see what you write, and if you're thinking this wow, this is a bunch of negative stuff. 00:23:21.923 --> 00:23:28.367 Okay, awareness is first and then we can decide well, who do you want to be outside of your HR role? 00:23:28.367 --> 00:23:31.828 And that's where some powerful transformation can occur. 00:23:31.828 --> 00:23:36.163 Where you can add to it is supporting or surrounding yourself with the right people. 00:23:36.163 --> 00:23:38.709 If you have a community, be with them. 00:23:38.709 --> 00:23:42.808 Help, you know, be in a place where people can see you outside of your HR role. 00:23:42.808 --> 00:23:45.136 That helps decide an identity. 00:23:45.136 --> 00:23:48.704 If you believe in a higher power, you know God can tell you those things right. 00:23:48.704 --> 00:23:54.835 So there's a lot of elements that can help you understand who you are outside of your HR role. 00:23:54.835 --> 00:23:59.229 But it is crucial to understand that because otherwise, back to your point. 00:23:59.229 --> 00:24:01.762 Sometimes we define HR as well. 00:24:01.803 --> 00:24:03.688 I got into HR because I'm a people person. 00:24:03.688 --> 00:24:19.508 I like being with people, I want them to be happy at work, I want to make the termination not feel so bad and it's well, that doesn't work, yeah, so knowing who you are outside of the HR role helps you perform even better in the HR role. 00:24:19.508 --> 00:24:23.784 And how do you adapt to people Well because you understand yourself. 00:24:23.784 --> 00:24:28.607 You have a much better understanding of others and you can respond in. 00:24:28.607 --> 00:24:32.669 You know some adaptable ways in the how to win friends and influence people. 00:24:32.669 --> 00:24:43.063 Right, you can say great, I know how to listen, I know how to ask questions, I know how to talk about what they like and all of the tactics that are important without you having to change who you are. 00:24:43.063 --> 00:24:45.346 Yeah, I love that. 00:24:46.747 --> 00:25:17.868 I think it's really interesting because there's so much power in being authentic, right and so, but but we're we're seeking something right, and and I think, in general, you know that that's that's most people that like are extroverted, right, like we're just trying to connect with others. 00:25:17.868 --> 00:25:22.147 It's how we gain energy, it's it's you know, it's, it can be really really enjoyable. 00:25:22.147 --> 00:25:27.729 But, but in order to show up for others, you have to be able to show up for yourself, right like. 00:25:27.729 --> 00:25:34.688 You have to know who you are, and you know an example that I'll use. 00:25:34.688 --> 00:25:49.087 So you know, I used to be the guy that was like super professional at work, like I didn't blend personal professional at all, and you know, I showed up kind of, and I played the part really well, right, but that's really what it was. 00:25:49.087 --> 00:25:52.056 It was like I felt like I was an actor, right. 00:25:56.924 --> 00:26:10.655 And what's interesting is, through a couple pivotal moments and through community work, through some volunteer work, I had a couple light bulbs go off where it's like hey, I want to fight for this cause, for this nonprofit, and I'm going to do that and I'm not going to be ashamed of it. 00:26:10.655 --> 00:26:13.554 I'm going to share it broadly within the organization that I'm doing it. 00:26:13.554 --> 00:26:14.236 Guess what happened. 00:26:14.236 --> 00:26:22.724 Other people started to find benefit in that or saw me as a human being, and then I was getting brought into other things. 00:26:23.266 --> 00:27:16.294 My career actually took off specifically because I chose to start to be kind of my myself within the context of this professional persona that I was building, and so you know, I could not agree more that once you find that thing that makes you tech and who you are, and you start to do that work, good things happen, both personally and professionally, and for me, it's that is kind of the secret to success and and at the end of the day, I, I think I, I think you would agree with this I think that's how you make work more fun and enjoyable, right, when you can actually show up as your whole self and and and and do that work in a way that that's like fulfilling your own self identity yeah, you know, that's great. 00:27:16.314 --> 00:27:21.048 This thought came to my mind and it's this aspect of a different mindset, but also an element of fun. 00:27:21.048 --> 00:27:29.932 So try this instead of introducing yourself and saying hey, I am hr, you say I am kyle, my name is kyle, I do hr. 00:27:29.932 --> 00:27:32.018 That feels so different. 00:27:32.018 --> 00:27:35.862 And then somebody's like whoa kyle, tell me about you and not just, oh, I'm hr. 00:27:35.862 --> 00:27:36.786 What the heck does that mean? 00:27:36.786 --> 00:27:41.316 Or I already know what that means I couldn't agree more. 00:27:41.336 --> 00:27:45.594 I one of the one of the best facilitator tricks I've ever seen, and it's not even a trick, it's just like. 00:27:45.594 --> 00:27:46.435 It's just who he is. 00:27:46.435 --> 00:27:52.255 Uh, one of my, one of my dear friends and and he's been a guest on this podcast before his name's Bob Kelleher. 00:27:52.255 --> 00:28:18.912 Before he does a presentation, he literally shows a slide with him about him and his family and he's a family man and he talks about he just talks about who he is as a human being, before he talks about all the accolades and he's got all the accolades and all the books and the bestsellers and and the story career. 00:28:18.912 --> 00:28:30.199 But it's it's bob, the man that gets people to buy in before bob, the you know guy who wrote literally wrote the book on employee engagement, right, you know, it's like that's exciting and interesting for you know, for me, just because it's like I'm like, wow, that's really cool. 00:28:30.199 --> 00:28:36.694 But I love Bob because of who Bob is, not because of what Bob has done. 00:28:36.996 --> 00:28:46.970 To go circle all the way back to where we started this, right, it's about who you are, not your accomplishments, right, not the grade that you get in school. 00:28:46.970 --> 00:28:50.176 So I love that. 00:28:50.176 --> 00:28:58.695 I love that, that, that approach, um, so so we're, we're coming kind of, you know, towards, towards the end of our time together. 00:28:58.695 --> 00:29:02.229 I warned you when we hit record, I'm like we're going to just get warmed up and then we're going to, then it's going to be over, right? 00:29:02.229 --> 00:29:04.755 Um, we're going to shift gears. 00:29:04.755 --> 00:29:13.728 I want to, I'm fascinated to get your, to get your, uh, your response to the, the rebel hr flash round. 00:29:13.728 --> 00:29:14.009 Are you ready? 00:29:14.009 --> 00:29:14.449 Ready, all right. 00:29:14.449 --> 00:29:32.417 So, question number one given what we've talked about, where do we need to rebel? 00:29:33.538 --> 00:29:36.465 okay, yes, exactly what we're, what we've been talking about. 00:29:36.465 --> 00:29:41.526 You need to rebel on this way that hr is seen but, most importantly, how you see yourself. 00:29:41.526 --> 00:29:47.492 No longer define yourself as I'm just the hr guy or HR person. 00:29:47.492 --> 00:29:53.161 Right, I am Ben, who happens to do HR and watch what happens. 00:29:55.527 --> 00:29:55.887 I love it. 00:29:55.887 --> 00:29:59.657 Question number two who should we be listening to? 00:30:02.785 --> 00:30:03.326 Broadly. 00:30:03.326 --> 00:30:09.746 You should be listening to the people who believe in you and who know who you are as a person, so that identity is super strong. 00:30:09.746 --> 00:30:17.571 And then, just as an example, since I brought him up in the podcast, johnny C Taylor, he believes in you as a person and what you can do. 00:30:20.439 --> 00:30:20.740 Love it. 00:30:20.740 --> 00:30:23.987 Final question how can our listeners connect with you? 00:30:25.971 --> 00:30:29.135 You know, go to my website howwesee see ourselvescom. 00:30:29.135 --> 00:30:32.809 That's where you can get a copy of the book and how you can connect with me. 00:30:32.809 --> 00:30:34.934 I on a lot of social media. 00:30:34.934 --> 00:30:49.873 I do a lot of work so you can watch me speak, you can connect to me in some group sessions and I can help address what you're going through and help strengthen that identity that allows you to not only get better results but, most importantly, the experience happiness along the way. 00:30:49.893 --> 00:30:51.897 I love it. 00:30:51.897 --> 00:30:58.707 We will have all that information in the show notes, so take a moment, open up your podcast player and click on in the book. 00:30:58.707 --> 00:31:00.393 Again is how we See Ourselves. 00:31:00.393 --> 00:31:05.751 It is available now where books are sold Best-selling title. 00:31:05.751 --> 00:31:12.051 And congratulations again to Ben on all your success and thanks for spending just a few minutes with us here today. 00:31:12.874 --> 00:31:13.675 Thank, you so much, Kyle. 00:31:13.675 --> 00:31:19.036 All right, that does it for the Rebel HR podcast. 00:31:19.036 --> 00:31:21.031 Big thank you to our guests. 00:31:21.031 --> 00:31:29.752 Follow us on Facebook at Rebel HR Podcast, Twitter at Rebel HR Guy, or see our website at rebelHumanResourcescom. 00:31:29.752 --> 00:31:40.018 The views and opinions expressed by Rebel HR Podcast are those of the authors and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of any of the organizations that we represent. 00:31:40.018 --> 00:31:43.532 No animals were harmed during the filming of this podcast.