Ep 9. Belonging

What is belonging and what can we do to build belonging within the health professions?

In our latest podcast episode, Laura Bulk chats with Anna about belonging and her research about experiences of disabled health professionals and health professional students. We touch on allyship, intersectionality, interdependence and showing up for each other as we work towards building belonging (and occupational justice) within our world.

To learn more about the research-based theatre performance that Laura was part of developing, go here and here

On December 20, 2020 from 12-2 PM, the AmCan AHA moment is hosting a live virtual performance of 'Alone in the Ring' - you're invited and you can show up and learn more about what we can do to build belonging within the health professions with disabled health professionals - register here

Transcript

Amelia: 0:00

Welcome to the'Do What You Love' podcast. We believe that doing and belonging contribute to wellbeing. And through this podcast, we will explore how to share strategies for doing exactly that what you love. Although some members are health and wellbeing professionals. This podcast provides wellness management in an informational manner. Only under no circumstances. Should this podcast substitute for a call or visit with a healthcare professional that is, or can become familiar with your lived experience.

Anna: 0:58

Hello everyone! It's Anna here and today I am joined by Laura Bulk and we are going to be chatting about belonging within the OT profession. Welcome Laura!

Laura: 1:09

Thank you. Good morning or afternoon.

Anna: 1:13

So, on the'Do What You Love' podcast, we really care about what people love to do and what it brings them. I was wondering if you could let me know what one of your favorite occupations is and what does it bring to your life?

Laura: 1:26

That's a great question and a difficult one. Uh, I think, Hmm. I think one of my favorite occupations perhaps is being with. People being with people I care about. Um, and that changes at different times, uh, such as COVID tide when it might not be physically together, or it might be doing one of my other favorite occupations, which is walking. I just love, uh, being, having that freedom. And I think walking to me brings freedom. It's just, just moving and breathing fresh air and being with them. Someone else, um, and sharing life together. Uh, yeah, so it's a couple of my favorite occupations.

Anna: 2:16

yeah, it was so nice to meet this summer when we went for that walk by all the farms and stuff. It was really, yeah. I was like, Oh my gosh. Laura is so close. So, uh, for audiences, Laura can please briefly introduce yourself and your OT path so far. What you're kind of up to.

Laura: 2:30

No. Absolutely. So, um, um, as you've already heard, my name is Laura Laura Yvonne Bulk. Um, I was born on the traditional territory of the W̱SÁNEĆ people, but my family, uh, moved from the Netherlands. We were settlers from there. Uh, and, um, maybe that's where my OT journey begins at a very young age when I was born and throughout my growing up years, I met various people with disabilities. I, um, am a disabled person myself and was involved in that community. And I have a few. Particular instances I can recall of different people I met throughout those years. Uh, for example, one 12 year old who had never brushed his own teeth, not because he couldn't, but because he was blind and so no one had ever let him try. Someone had always done it for him. And so things like that, um, made me think, well, you know, when I. When I grow up, if I grow up, um, I am going to, uh, Find a job or a creative career where I can help people gain the skills and the confidence that they need to live the lives they desire. And, and what I now know as engaged in occupation, uh, that's meaningful to them. I thought I would have to invent a career, turns out occupational therapy exists, and I think that's what it is. So, uh, when I graduated high school, that was about when I learned about OT. Uh, and I, well, you need to get an undergrad to, uh, start the master's program. And so I got my undergrad is a long story, but I was going to get it in, in nutrition and dietetics, but I ended up getting in social work very different path the last couple of years of my undergrad. Um, and then I, I got into the OT program and I got to do that and had a, uh, a good experience there, uh, with my classmates and cohort, uh, and, and interesting experiences, um, on placements and that kind of thing. And then when I was nearing the end of my, MOT, my masters of occupational therapy, uh, someone said,"Hey, would you like to stay in, do your PhD with me?" And I was like, I'm going to have to Google what that means. Um, because being first generation university student, I didn't really have a frame of reference to understand what a PhD even is or what doing one would mean. I ended up. Agreeing to a PhD. Um, because I, I found that as a social worker and an occupational therapist and, a member of a disabled community, I witnessed that sometimes people have the skills and the confidence and need to live the lives they desire, but they don't because there are institutional and societal and, um, cultural and attitudinal barriers in the way. And I think... I hope doing a PhD, um, is helping me to perhaps create small change in, in those, uh, levels of, of things. So that brings me to today. I did, I did practice as well as I started my PhD. I worked in private practice for a while. And now I, um, practice in a bit of a, um, emerging area as, um, an accessibility advisor at a university. Uh, so there are some OTs working in higher education and it's kind of an emerging area.

Anna: 6:31

So I remember when we were walking in the summer, um, we had some really great chats about belonging and ableism and some of those institutional barriers. So, uh, I was hoping today we could chat a little bit more about belonging and ways that we can build belonging within our profession. So to start, what does belonging mean to you?

Laura: 6:53

Hm, that's my question. So I asked that question of a lot of people. Um, only I ask it slightly differently, so, and I would love to hear your answer, um, of how, how you would complete the sentence. I know I belong when, and for me it's become a very, um, Thick answer, uh, with a lot of pieces, because I have been thinking about it a lot as part of my, um, PhD work and asking a lot of people, uh, what belonging is. And so I think some of the things that, that resonate most for me around what is belonging, um, include. Well, just that sense that you're wanted, um, that, uh, if, if I am not there something is missing. Um, because I belong there. Um, for me, it's not about similarity. I think, uh, some of the groups where I have the strongest sense of belonging, I. Uh, are, are the most diverse groups and, and groups of people. I don't necessarily have a lot of observable characteristics in common with. I also, it's interesting, even as I say that, I, I know that the, the sense of belonging, the feeling is different when I am in, for example, in a group of blind people or, um, in a disabled space, uh, that sense of belonging is different, uh, with different groups. And then when I'm with my spiritual community, again, it's a different sense. Um, and both are equally belonging-full. Yeah. Yeah.

Anna: 8:51

Yeah. Okay. I'll try and answer that question from my perspective.

Laura: 8:55

Alright!

Anna: 8:56

Um, so I feel like I belong when I feel totally comfortable as I am. Um, I feel like I can express myself. Um, I feel like if I make a mistake, that's okay. I'm just like laugh it off. Or, um, it's just like, okay. Um, and I feel like I'm loved. I feel like I'm welcome. I feel like people are like happy to see me. Um, I feel like I'm contributing to the group. Um, yeah. And I feel like I'm just like, I can just feel free to be who I am and what I want. And I guess, yeah, it kind of boils down to like, I feel free to be who I am. Like if I want to laugh out loud, I can or want to goofy dance. I can, and like sing, like tell a joke like it, I can and or tell a story and, um, Just like we can have these meaningful conversations and it's not like, I feel like when I don't belong, maybe you're looking at the opposite. I feel like I'm like kind of holding myself back and I feel like, maybe I'm like, Oh, it's okay to say this here. I don't know. Um, it's okay to act like how like his okay. To be this way. Is it okay? Like, I feel almost like I'm like treading on eggshells when I feel like I don't belong, I'm like, Oh, what the kind of like putting feelers out there. Cause I don't feel super comfortable. Like, like what is the groups vibe? Like where is it? Whereas if I belong. I'm like, I can do whatever I want and people love me here.

Laura: 10:27

Did you read my dissertation because

Anna: 10:31

I haven't yet just

Laura: 10:32

yeah. I

Anna: 10:34

doing as much reading lately in the last week.

Laura: 10:36

Yes, that that is fair. Well, you, um, you shared a lot of, a lot of things that I think resonate with what I heard in, in the work that I did asking very, like many, many people, um, about their sense of belonging. Um, And it's similar when I think about, um, as a profession and as an occupational therapist, that's another one of those spaces where we can think: do, do I belong here? Um, what is my sense of belonging like? Um, and, and it's interesting your, your comments about, um, like being, being who I truly am, or just being myself and I, of course, think back to the doing, being belonging, becoming those pieces that we talk about in occupational science. And, um, and I think another, another piece of that when I think about belonging in the profession, is that becoming piece and'am I, am I becoming what an occupational therapist is supposed to be?' Has been kind of a, a question or maybe was, um, and is I think for some, some students and young or newer occupational therapists. And in the profession. It's, it's also unique because thinking about just being ourselves and, and there's this tension between what it means to be a professional or, you know, an occupational therapist particularly. And, um, and then what it means to just be myself, my whole self. And for me, that includes my blind self. And is is my disabled self welcome as part of my occupational therapist self? Um, and, and that's something we talked about before as well, and thinking about, yeah. Do do, do we as disabled people belong, um, in the profession? And, um, I, uh, I want to say yes, but I have to say not always. Um, and I think it's shifting for sure. Um, there are some really, uh, beautiful allies that we have, um, who are, um, working alongside one another and myself and others, uh, to shift the conversation, um, toward acceptance and embracing diversity, including disability as diversity, um, and shifting away from the narrative of disability as a deficit and know disability as diversity. Um, yeah. And so it's exciting to see some of this work happening. But there still exists this tension between the, uh, what is a professional and a professional is"autonomous" and a professional is"healthy" and a lot of these things are now air quotes, by the way, is the action of helping others. And the, um, stereotype of what a disabled person is is that they are, are dependent and they are not healthy and they are, uh, the one in need of help. And, and those two identities seem incongruent. And so how can that disabled identity belong in, with, uh, the professional identity? And so that some of the work that we're doing is to shift some of those ideas and stereotypes about, um, what it means to be disabled person and what it means to be a professional for that matter. And this idea of, um, of dependence as a bad thing, and thinking about interdependence and how that's what we are as humans we are meant to be interdependent beings. Um, and that, that is a good thing. And that, um, Yeah, I could go on and on,

Anna: 15:06

Yeah.

Laura: 15:07

yeah. Yeah.

Anna: 15:09

Yeah. I think like with, I think it's interesting, like bringing up becoming because, um, like from my perspective, like I see the profession, I'm like, there's so many different ways to do occupational therapy and like we're profession and this is why I am passionate about this like we're a profession that advocates for accessibility and inclusion and diversity, and I'm like, why can't we see this all the time in our own backyard?

Laura: 15:41

Yeah, it's it's ironic and tragically so. Uh, and I think I, I, um, operate from a worldview and a stance of assuming the best in people, um, and who maybe sometimes wrongly. Uh, but I think often rightly and I think people perhaps are they're they're, they're afraid. Maybe there's some fear involved. There's this thought that, well, we, you know, Well, the thing that we hear so many times, and I don't even want to say it is well,'is it safe for patients?' It's this question and, and they don't know, they maybe have not, um, lived life with a disabled person or as a disabled person. They don't know the unique strengths that having a disability, um, brings to, to your way of being and doing in the world. Um, and they, they know how, how OT has always been done in their experience and have many, many things on their plate and, um, have many pressures and don't perhaps have capacity or don't feel they have capacity to re-imagine how it can be done differently. And so I don't want to make excuses for people, but I also want to acknowledge that, um, I hope people are doing their best, and I hope that we can help them do better, um, as, as best we can

Anna: 17:29

Yeah. What are some of those actions that you think we can take, um, to build belonging within profession and go from like what? Talking to the talk to walking the walk and

Laura: 17:39

or wheeling the feel I like to say wheel the spiel.

Anna: 17:45

Totally.

Laura: 17:46

Yeah. So I think, um, part of it is listening, um, and, and listening. However you listen to us, uh, and, and, um, understand, or maybe not understanding it's, it's, that's a high level, but, um, taking in people's stories, um, and, uh, I think another piece is being open to creativity and being creative yourself. I think, uh, this, and this is part of the broader conversation around equity and diversity, um, and making, making this part of that broader conversation. Um, moving away from. That deficit approach, uh, to a diversity approach. I think those are helpful things. I think I'm saying that we have, uh, legislation or we have policies around inclusion and accommodations and having maybe something on your website that says, if you need accommodations, this is who you contact. Yeah. Um, that that's good, but it's another thing to say: we want disabled people here, profession. We, we are recruiting specifically for diversity, including disability, and that is a very different thing than just... then saying we have accommodation processes and we, we are an equity employer or an equity, um, uh, school. Like that's very different to, to know that I'm wanted. And that I specifically am wanted is a powerful thing, I think. And can. Um, contribute to belonging and then it's, it's kind of a snowball effect. When we have more of us, then it will be, Oh, like, look at that. There, there, there are people who have disabilities in that profession. And, um, yeah, so that kind of shifts happened slowly, but it's happening. I hope.

Anna: 20:12

As we were talking earlier about belonging and feeling of being loved is there and being wanted to be there. Um, I also, I think about how we connect with each other, um, and how we all kind of give something to each other. And we like as much as we are, as much as our society really values independence. I want to go back to that concept that we were talking about earlier with interdependence and how we can all contribute something to each other's lives. Um, and we are all dependent on each other. Like, um, I know for me personally, like I used to live alone and, um, that was really hard. I'm a very social person then just before COVID I moved into a house with three, actually four other people to start. Um, and. We all have our like, um, own things that we do and we have our own strengths and we have things that we have more support with and we have all these meaningful conversations. So we just like help each other out, um, and help each other like process things or like get something really heavy up the stairs. One of my roommates is a CrossFit games athlete, so he's super strong....or help- like we all offer different things to different people so I think if we normalize more interdependence, we can really, um, build that culture of belonging and diversity, um, rather than having it being with the competition of independence.

Laura: 21:48

Yeah, absolutely. And, and what you said actually reminds me of something one of my participants said in, in the research that I did, um, and she talked about being part of a village is, is how she phrased it and being a part of this village where we, we all support one another. And I think also, you know, you can think of it, it's like an ecosystem and if one part is missing, then all the other parts lose out. They, they there's a deficit. Thinking about the interdependence and, um, in our profession, like we can, we can think about, well, if I am not very good at one particular part of the work, but one of my colleagues is really good at that, but they're not good at one other part. Sometimes we can, we can balance each other out, um, thinking about your housemates and, you know, maybe you can't carry this up the stairs, but your roommate can, and maybe your roommate, you know, can't make a poached egg, but you can kind of thing.

Anna: 23:05

we have lots of talks about, um, like what are your highs and lows of the days? And like, we just kind of bring in support for each other. It's like, okay, you're having a hard time with this. Um, is there things that we can do support you in meeting that? Or is there something that we can take off your plate this week? And, um, it's like, we're always checking on each other and just seeing how we can support each other so we can all kind of thrive in our house.

Laura: 23:29

Yep. Absolutely. Cause we're all, we're all part of a whole. And, and so I hope that that totally we can find in our places of work as occupational therapists and different health professionals, is that we're part of a whole, and our, our goals, we have many, but one of them is to just serve the people we work with. And we can do that best when we are, are working interdependently. Um, and yeah, I think that connects very closely with this idea of disability being diversity and, um, Yeah. Hmm. I have another, um, friend and colleague who, uh, runs a whole workshop around belonging. And one of the things he does is tells a story about, um, making soup or stew and, um, Sounds like the best stews have all these diverse ingredients. And, you know, if, if that cumin wasn't there, this stew would really not be as good. So maybe that's a better analogy And I think you spoke to how our society here in North America, or on Turtle Island. So many people here, um, really focus on independence and our profession has been notorious for that as well. And I don't want to say that is without value because there are folks who want to be independent and there are aspects maybe of my own life, or, yeah, I do. I do want to do certain things independently and that's okay. But I am not an independent being. I am being created to be in relationship with other people, um, and to contribute and have others contribute to my wellbeing um, as I contribute to theirs.

Anna: 25:43

Yeah. I think like all of our actions have an influence on each other I actually took some time off and away from the OT profession for a few months. Um, my family was going through some things, um, with some of my family members living with addictions. Um, And both of my grandparents had recently just passed away. So I went to Austria for four months and I lived in a village and, um, things that were really supportive for health and wellbeing was when we were doing things together. And. I could reach out to friends who are like my parents' age. Um, and they just like, I was like can you help me, like, learn how to drive manual on a mountain? But also for my family members, it was really helpful when we were doing things together and just like, okay, well, I'll do part of the activity and then you can do the other part. And we just kind of built things in, we were doing things together and really, um, having conversations and supporting each other. And I think it was just so beautiful being there. I was like,"Oh my gosh. Every I can reach out to anyone. I just like pop down someone else's house and we're gonna have breakfast and then I can ask them for something or they can ask me for something. And, um, yeah, it really is like, it's a kind of a magical, it was a really nice experience.

Laura: 27:02

Yeah, it does sound magical. And, and that's the magical world we want to create, um, including in our professions. And I think. Creating that is, is challenging in general, um, and in the place where we are located, at least. Um, and I think it's even more challenging in the professions because of that tension that exists. Um, yeah.

Anna: 27:32

Yeah that competitiveness as well and I would say moreso in academia

Laura: 27:36

yeah, there's definitely in. So in my cohort, in my masters of occupational therapy, it was very collegial. The first week, maybe first day we had like a, a shared drive where we would put all our notes and we would pass it around, you

Anna: 27:57

Wow.

Laura: 27:58

Missed anything. And it was extremely collaborative. I know that's not true of every class. So I was very honored to be part of that. And, um, I think, uh, in the professions themselves, it varies by different professions, for sure. At least in my observations and, and what I've heard from, from folks, um, I've spoken with. And so that idea of competition, um, is definitely an issue, uh, in academia, as you said, uh, yes, a big issue. And, and I hope that I can be part of, you know, one ripple of change, uh, in that, uh, because, um, yeah, to me, it's, it's. It is futile to wish my own success at someone else's lack thereof. Um, and then when I'm thinking about, um, the professions, I think one of the other tensions I talked about kind of the identity piece, uh, before about, um, what does it mean to be a professional and then.

Anna: 29:17

Yeah. Kind of like reconciling those identity. Yeah.

Laura: 29:21

Yeah. And, and for educators, it's also challenging because you, okay. Yeah. I talked also about the, the re-imagining and the work of re-imagining and that is work. Um, and then there's also this idea of, well, we are also beholden to the regulators and the regulators- they're also working at re-imagining. Um, and, and then, but then there's the health authority. So then we also have to, we're beholden to them as well. And so it's a very complex system. And so sometimes that can be, I could say used as an excuse, but also as a reason for someone to feel helpless, um, like I can't create change in this... well, no, yes, you can. At least in your own attitude. That, that is one place to start. Yeah.

Anna: 30:24

thinking about those, like, yes, we can make these changes and those possibilities. What would you think are some like small kind of everyday actions that occupational therapists, and I would hope like all the health professions could take to, um, really show that we want disabled help professionals in our midst.

Laura: 30:42

Hmm. Okay. So. You mentioned everyday actions. I'm going to raise one. That's maybe not every day, but on admissions websites to have a statement that we want disabled people. Not that we will accept them because of we're legally obliged, but we're recruiting for disabled people. Um, I think everyday actions is thinking about our language and why we choose certain terms and how we're using them. So you've heard me using identity first language. Um, and I, I alternate with person first and I use identity first because being a disabled person that's a part of my identity. It's not all of who I am, but it is part of my identity. It's a community I belong to, um, and that I am happy and proud to belong to. Um, and so that's why I use those, those words in, in that order. Um, and, and thinking about the language we use when we're talking about our clients as well. Sometimes we slip into, um, using language that maybe we wouldn't use in front of our clients. Um, and why, why would you use that language when you're talking about them when they're not present? Uh, shifting some of our language from a disease patient?

Anna: 32:17

Wait.

Laura: 32:18

Um, if that's one that I hear a lot it's it's the,"oh the x disease patient in bed five". Um, well, yeah, that, that can be very dehumanizing and it's, I mean, if it's an identity for them, if it's, um, a group they belong to like my identity first disabled person language. Um, but most often that is not the case. Um, so yeah, I think language shapes a lot of our attitude and, and kind of the atmosphere around us. Um, I think that we, we can, um, promote disabled people and people from other equity seeking groups. Um, Promote them if you have the power to promote them in their career. Sure. But also, um, highlighting their voices and, and, um, listening again. And again, it comes, I come back to listening. And I think it's, uh, it's interesting: I mentioned people from other equity seeking groups and something that I have learned, and am learning, um, is again, we are interdependent and as people from different equity seeking groups, um, it is no good if we are sticking in our own group and, and'fighting the good fight,' so to speak, um, for that group without acting in solidarity and being an ally with people from other equity seeking groups. And so something that, um, I learned, I was doing a workshop about, um, enacting the truth and reconciliation commission in, um, higher education spaces. And something that stood out to me about, um, what I learned there was show up. And so I wrote it on a cue card and it is actually sitting on the edge of my computer right now. And it's this idea of showing up for other people's things. So I don't just go to the play that's about the experience of disabled health professionals while I'm in it. I have to be there, but I also, I. Make the time I take the time to go to the play. That's called'Dark Secrets'. It's a, uh, research-based theater, um, about experiences, um, in residential schools, and peer to peer violence. And, and that's not a fun thing to go to, but it was like, no, I need to show up for them. Um, And I think that's important. And, and in back to that question of how can we in our everyday actions, uh, create a space for belonging. And I think, um, it needs to be a broad perspective. So it's not just to, how do I create a space of belonging for disabled people? No, it's how do I create a space of belonging and that it includes everyone. Um, yeah.

Anna: 35:51

Yeah a culture of belonging

Laura: 35:53

Yeah. Anyway, I could go on, but yields to read the dissertation.

Anna: 35:59

I'm going to read your dissertation. I think I'm also going to have to go and watch that play, the'Dark Secrets'.

Laura: 36:04

Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's, um, I'll add one more thing. Uh, because this is something that came out. Very clearly as well in, in the research. And so the stories of participants is, um, small gestures of belonging. And so gestures of belonging is, is this phrase that I've used to, to speak to, um, the little things that you can do. So, uh, inviting someone to go for a walk over lunch break. Um, letting me know that there is coffee in, in the coffee room or, um, because you know that I don't see very well telling me there there's a plate of cookies on the table over there. Um, or there's a wet paint sign, like little things. Yeah, that let me know that people are aware I'm here. People, um, want me to be here and want me to, um, uh, fully participate in, in the space.

Anna: 37:13

Yeah. I think that also like reflecting on like online media and using alt text and everything

Laura: 37:20

Oh, yes. And that is such a seemingly simple one that often doesn't happen. And again, people either don't think of it, um, is they're not aware or they are just quickly tweeting something. And so it's, it's really. I just got to get this tweet out there and then I'm onto my next thing. And there's kind of this idea of, I don't, I don't have time for it. And I say, no, you don't have time not to do these things. You, you need to make this a priority and, um, creating a space where everyone can find a sense of belonging. That's something that you need to prioritize. And, um, it's not an optional thing. Um, it is something that makes our profession better and there's literature to show, um, that, um, having a more diverse workforce, including diversity of disability, improves patient outcomes. It, um, improves health equity, people who were less likely to seek healthcare become more likely to seek healthcare. Um, there, there are all these, all these ways that it it's going to save our system money. In the end. We know the bottom line is so important for people. Um, yeah, so. Uh, I don't want that to be a decision making factor, but, you know, whenever we need to make sure those policy makers know,

Anna: 39:05

I think like, um, as we're talking about this culture of belonging, um, also kind of goes with like the aspect of cultural humility that I saw you talk about at CHES at UBC. reflecting back on that talk, like, what do you think would be important for our audiences to know about cultural humility? Um, and I know we talked about this potentially being another whole other podcast, um, but just like a little intro, um, spiele.

Laura: 39:31

Yeah. So, um, I, I would love to have another opportunity to have a conversation about this group theory, this perspective, this, uh, concept of, of cultural, cultural safety, um, cultural humility, cultural competence. There are lots of different concepts. Um, and one of them, cultural safety, uh, Is is actually, um, a concept from a Maori scholar, uh, which spoke to, um, and their name is Ramsden, and it spoke to, uh, Indigenous experiences. And, um, and, and I think it's important to acknowledge that. And. I have found that the concept and concepts related to it are very helpful for thinking about disability experience and the disabled experience. And, um, I mentioned that I belong to a, a culture, um, a disabled culture and my culture is, is important to me and, um, shows up in who I am in the workplace and in the profession as well. And cultural safety- it really, um, it, it, it's met through actions that recognize and respect and nurture the unique cultural identity, um, of other people, so of a patient or clients. Um, and then also of the people who you work with and colleagues. And it's interesting. One of the sort of prerequisites for, um, cultural safety is that there is representation. Um, and so without representation of disabled people in our profession, we will never reach cultural safety. And, and so I think that's an important piece to keep, to keep in mind and keep pushing toward, um,

Anna: 41:48

I think like my perspective, as well as like, I I'm very into like citizen engagement in healthcare and, um, partnerships and how we can kind of bring people together from diverse backgrounds and diverse cultures to co-create things, um, for wellbeing and have some of those like reconciliation conversations. Um, and I think like part of that as well is just like acknowledging how does my own culture influence how I'm being in this space um, Of how it could be shaping him, viewing a situation or how like, just like where I come from, what I've learned in life and how that is shaping what, the way I view and experience and a way I am presenting myself in a space

Laura: 42:35

yeah, and I think that's important to remember for us as healthcare professionals, we don't become washed of everything else when we're in our role as an occupational therapist or other health professional, we, hopefully, are whole humans and bring our humanity into the work we're doing. And it reminds me of, um, some other work that I did. Um, another research project with, uh, folks talking about perspectives on what professionalism is, and particularly, uh, getting the perspectives of people who are using the healthcare system. So not, not the scholars, not the educators, not the regulators or the healthcare professionals. Um, but folks who identified as patients or clients. Uh, some of the things that they shared were very much in line with kind of what's in the scholarly literature, around, you know, competence, you need to know what you're doing. And for our, our participants, that was kind of, well, that goes without saying, you need to like, have a license and know how to do the stuff. Um, and, and professional boundaries. So not like. You know, having a romantic relationship with a client, like they're like, uh, like that's, you know, but the things that they really emphasized in their stories were humanity. So treating me with humanity, um, treating me as part of the team. I'm not just this center and all of the team works or no, I'm part of the team. Um, and then also. Humility and integrity, integrity, and humility. They were linked with like, things like admitting when you don't know something and doing the work to figure it out. So if I have like a rare disease, I don't want you to pretend, you know what you're doing and then like go into the other room, go like I have no idea. I want you to admit you don't know. You haven't heard of this, but you're going to do the work to figure it out and, and to partner with me, um, on this, on this journey that I'm on. Um, yeah. And so bringing kind of your whole self as a healthcare professional, um, is yeah it's really important. And from the patient/client perspectives, that's part of what it means to be a professional is to bring your whole self And again, it's a different context then when you're hanging out with your friends, it's a different context then, um, then when you're with your family, maybe, um, and so you, you will behave differently and your focus is going to be on that individual. So bringing your whole self, but you're not necessarily going to disclose. All these different things, unless it's helpful

Anna: 45:45

Yeah, exactly.

Laura: 45:46

for the person who is the focus of the interaction. Um, but that doesn't mean your whole self isn't there.

Anna: 45:53

Yeah. I like to think of it like personally as a professional. I think of it as like bringing my whole self in a way that's intentionally supportive.

Laura: 46:02

Yeah. Yeah. That's a really good way to put it.

Anna: 46:05

Yeah. Yeah. I'm wondering, Laura, if you have any last golden nuggets for our audience or anything that you want us to touch on today that we didn't get to.

Laura: 46:15

Oh, I think we're just going to have to have like a whole other conversation. I really enjoyed talking with you. Um, I think a golden nugget... I think it's important for people to, um, remember that you have a role to play, in this ecosystem or village that no, no part is unimportant. Um, and so you're wanted and you're needed and you're necessary, uh, for whatever, whatever group that is to be functioning. And, and it's interesting. Great. Now, um, in the time of COVID COVID tide, um, when you, you folks started this podcast, um, that is enacted in different ways. Um, and I think I'll encourage folks to read and look up the poem,"Zoomlandia" and think about as we move perhaps eventually into, being in person for things more often, um, and getting out and about more, um, remember that not everyone's quarantine ends with yours, that there, um, are folks whose experience means that they have needed to self isolate, um, uh, for times in our lives because of health or disability related stuff that we have going on. Um, and this time has given us an opportunity to build skills, um, and will, to bring concerts and plays and meetings and work into our homes. Um, and I want us to not lose the creativity that has been born out of this time. Um, There, yes, have been a lot of challenging things and there are some affordances in this time. Um, and I want us to hold onto those.

Anna: 48:43

Thank you, Laura. It was so nice chatting to you today and I'm excited for our next conversation.

Laura: 48:48

Me too.

Anna: 48:49

Bye

Laura: 48:50

Bye for now

Amelia: 49:32

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