Insider's Guide to Energy

106 – A Fireside Chat with Hosts Chris Sass and Johan Oberg

January 22, 2023 Chris Sass Season 4 Episode 106
Insider's Guide to Energy
106 – A Fireside Chat with Hosts Chris Sass and Johan Oberg
Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

This week hosts Chris Sass and Johan Oberg sit down together in Zurich to enjoy a beer and discuss some of their favorite topics and guests over the past year. Join us for this fireside chat to hear about the guests and topics that stood out, and what’s in store for 2023. 

10:27.34 

chrissass 

 Hello and welcome to insider's guide to energy today. We're going to do something a little bit different today. Johann and I are gonna go back and we're gonna review the year and review the program where we're at Johann. How's it going today. It's great and looking forward to this show is slightly different and the. Even more looking forward to do this in person. This is one of the first times if not the second time we actually do it face-to-face. Yeah, we tried early on when we started this podcast to be in the same room. The intention was to have beers for you watching the video and to do a podcast recording and then what we realized is we didn't have the text. To do it so we ended up being in the same building but not the same room because we're getting feedback loops of the mics correct and with this new setup. It looks amazing. First of all and sound is great and so much you see when you look at someone to speak to someone right? I love the teams I love all these. Virtual things. But this is different. Yeah I mean it's's it's truly a conversation. We. We have a sound board. We've grown. The podcast has turned into a businesses and of itself for lack of a better term and it really has taken on a life of its own I it's a long way from that first interview we did when we brought you on board to see if we want to have an energy podcast and. And I think our personal journeys have been quite a bit I mean it's a few years later for sure for sure. We just celebrated a hundred episodes on the main show and I think apart from all the learnings we have I think the whole idea of this podcast in general you know I just probably didn't expect it to grow. 

  

12:03.70 

chrissass 

Way it grew in in in that period of time you know, hundred episode plus all the extra material. All the extra shows and not talking about the engagement we had on social media that the response we get from our audience. It's quite remarkable. Yeah I mean it's been a fun ride right? We have a hundred shows. On the main show. We've got probably I would bet at least another 50 episodes of content that we've done with other shows we do and as it is today. There's the main show that's kind of what we call serendipous walks of energy really mostly focused on energy transition. Then there is a. Science program that's in production right now that we're I think 4 or 5 episodes into which hasn't even released so the audience hasn't even heard it yet. But there's insider's guide to energy data science energy science and then there's ah ev miniseries which is also mid-production with about 18 hours of content and production right now and so all those. Hold on. We got people sitting in the background if you want to be on the podcast. 

  

13:11.40 

chrissass 

You're welcome to be on it but you'll be famous. 

  

13:17.25 

chrissass 

So the show's really taken off over one hundred episodes we got multiple podcasts that we've done right? We got ev miniseries at data science show. We've had the future leaders program. We have a job board. That's active. We've gone through a number of amazing young volunteers that were their graduate students are really in their career. They've been a part of our program for school. Years and it's just been an amazing journey pretty frankly, it's been fun. No I agree and I think you mentioned the volunteers that we have on the show we do this on our spare time and we've had a lot of great good health and I found it probably most interesting in terms of you know these younger people I wouldn't say that we're old. But. Younger than us that that has this passion for energy and you know if I were in my mid 20 s thirty s energy was probably not on the core of my agenda and I'm amazed that it is. But once you start digging into it and I think that's my outcome from the whole episode that we run and this is. An extremely interesting area complex but interesting I think it's a complexity that I learned right when we first started I was still very naive about energy. It was very binary and if you didn't say the world need to be renewable like tomorrow I kind of thought you were some right-wing conspiracy. Person and the more you look at the reality of where things are you realize how complex each and every one of these issues are and there's no single answer and so the journey's been interesting we and we can talk everything from offshore wind to nuclear power to geothermal and in each and every one of those episodes I learned some. 

  

14:55.82 

chrissass 

We had um turbines in the ocean right generating power um, all that stuff has been pretty amazing for me as a learning curve now I agree and I think that the whole complexity around the whole energy ecosystem as we discussed. You know we have the utilities we have the as you mentioned all the startups and different. Renewable energy sources. We talk about storage and but I think the ecosystem in this transformation was kind of is the best the highlight for me this is where you know individual things you can learn a little bit more by geothermal. You can learn a little bit more about nukes. A little bit more about solar and how that sets together. But how this is all coming together I think is quite interesting and especially we had. We had a few on the show when we talked about the pipeline in in the us that was down for a bit and you start realizing. You know who owns the responsibility of this ecosystem you know parts. It's still regulatory governmentally driven some is private and that interaction between these and we also have the paradise fire in in California kind of alluding to this as well that you know who actually carries. Responsibility for the entire infrastructure and this I found quite interesting because I don't have the answer to this yet? No, but it's always policy everything we get to always comes down to policy right? So the technology for a lot of the energies here. The investment is based on policy. 

  

16:23.67 

chrissass 

Right? If you look at their inflation reduction act. It's both spiking investment and what it's doing to the economy. Um for jump starting maybe hydrogen in North America and other technologies. It's always about policy. So the thing that you learn is you can't do an energy podcast and not go near politics and go near people. It would be impossible. No I agree but I think the 1 thing that stood out a little bit with this was not really the policies of the investment and reduction acts. Okay, we put a lot of money into increase in the renewable production in the us similar schemes are around everywhere. So that's I think. That's not really a difference but still what I think there's been less talk about there might be talk about it. We haven't we had a few guests on but less talk about is the ownership between the different pieces so you look at the grid who actually owns it who will actually build this infrastructure to take care of it. 1 thing of investing of producing it. But if we can't transport it and the pipeline I thought was quite of an interesting one because everyone was blaming everyone for who actually owned the parts that got ransomed. It's still fascinating to me that this is not really solved or discussed in the matter I. Show. Yeah, and I think it' doing the podcast what it does is exposes it to a lot more people right? So one of my motivations besides learning personally is bringing the audience along to the journey. It's we try to find guests that we think are going to be interesting. We never really know because we have the conversation during the interview. So it's it's. 

  

18:00.19 

chrissass 

Really a stop in the dark what we do is a leap of faith. We find somebody that has a topic that they talked about or has a biography a bio that says hey they're going to be talking about a topic that interests us and then we have ah a candid conversation about it and bring the guests along for me that that has been part of the journey that makes insider's guide what it is. It differentiates us from different podcasts I think because what we're doing is we're having a genuine conversation. There's not scripted questions. There isn't all that it's really it goes wherever it goes and occasionally you and I have gone clearly we didn't think an interview would go. We brought a guest on thinking we were covering 1 job but and we made a hard right and had a great interview and I think that's. Key isn't it because you always talk about this serendipity walk through energy and that means really that we have we do have an agenda because we're here to learn about the energy ecosystem and the energy world but we don't have an agenda that we're pushing something special so we can be pretty open. And I think that's also where we always talk about the asking the stupid questions. Well don't you remember early on when we got our first dose of unhappy fans because we take our guests at face value right? We always tell the guests we come on. We're not investigate every two quarters we just want to learn. We want to hear your story. I believe the audience is right I believe you know we have the ability to ask inquisitive questions and we had 1 guest on and we got so much hate mail saying well they're their business models flaw. There are a bunch of cros that that that energy model won't work and I was really taken back when we first did that and I offered the other people person that was. 

  

19:32.90 

chrissass 

Fawing said well give me give me feedback. What do you want to talk about why is that that but realize that we have day job to and night we do this for fun right? This isn't a full time job. We're not invest. 

  

19:46.49 

chrissass 

Couple years of production with me now I think so and I think that goes back to what we discussed in the beginning as well. The complexity around this because if there was a silver bullet to solve this that the way forward this this would have been done but there as you said that there are political interests in this one. There are personal interests around this There are even academics. There are scientific differences in terms of what works and what doesn't work so it's not a silver bullet that we're going to solve of all this I think everyone has the same thing we need cheaper better energy and how we're going to produce that that differs quite a bit so we need cheaper better energy now. That's what we need. For sure why because if you look at where we're heading in terms of electrification I think we're going to restart replace where we're already replacing look at where I've come from those Scandinavian countries I think the Norwegian market right now in 2022 70 % plus new sold cars were electric. That's going to change something so. 

21:03.80 

chrissass 

Back. So the dog is let in no more barking. We're back to the program. You know we're talking about the. 

  

21:15.63 

chrissass 

Really do need ah a different approach or a less expensive approach or I still hold you with the premise I had probably early in the first year of doing this with you is it if it all goes well the price of energy goes down because you look at the amount of development that be going in the pendulum is going to go too far. There's gonna be too many projects. 

  

21:37.73 

chrissass 

The price comes down now I during this interim between now and then probably goes out because there's. Scarcity but you know things that open your eyes is what's the reality right? So I recently spoke to Graham Cooper at national grid and he was he wasn't worried about the infrastructure getting built you know. 

  

22:02.18 

chrissass 

And you know the argument was made well, it's an energy transition. Not an energy switch and that it will get there in time and there's release to be there right? So it really depends who you're talking to as to. The outcome is I guess 1 thing that would be interesting me is we kind of have this recap episode was what technology have you found is your favorite. What surprised you along the way. What have we uncovered that. 

  

22:28.89 

chrissass 

I think there's you know, ah covering over a hundred episodes coming into. This is fairly new even though I was working for a utility company. It was a fairly new industry for me. It obviously one of the reasons coming on but when we talk about technology there. There's so many specifics. Talked about wave energy. For example, we talk about a lot of these things that seems pretty obvious to a certain extent. You can drag some energy from it I think the fact that the areas that have kind of triggered me a little bit is on the storage fronts. You know we talk we talk about. Producing the energy but the actual storage capabilities and we had a number of these not particularly creating the energy or but producing the energy but storing it from mine storage we had we had rocket fuels that there's quite a few things that that. Literally follows the same thing that we have today that we need but that I've never heard of before so I think storage is probably the one maybe because I was less involved in it. But you know batteries in general as well. so storage I mean I heard a lot of interesting stories right? Everything from basically. Blocks up and lowering your downnetic energy to different molecules that you're going to create and create a molecule hydro storage un pumped hydro you know whether it be a mine or elsewhere. What's interesting to me is for the most part we're not getting new and emerging technologies that are disruptive. 

  

24:03.30 

chrissass 

The technology may be refined. You know Lithium batteries or your different type of battery or flow batteries or depending on what they. Changing But what was kind of eye-opening is there isn't you know. 

  

24:22.41 

chrissass 

I Don't see that in the core technology. What I see the change is in the architecture of how the power is brought out and how the markets are changing with. Architecture right? So What I don't recall is having an episode where I had an aha moment open Cool. They're doing storage. You know something I'd never heard of people. 

  

24:45.84 

chrissass 

And that technology been around but forever just never commercialized the economics before we've had you know Hydrogen Engine Economics didn't work but the technology wasn't so. 

  

24:57.67 

chrissass 

What's been eye-opening is that there really aren't amazing technologies. But then then maybe the episode we're breaking rocks with electricity that was a new. 

  

25:06.75 

chrissass 

But I can't think of a lot of new technologies. So are you I like that in analogy but is that something you think we're waiting for it or let me rephrase the question is that something you're waiting for this this kind of I wouldn't say the aha moment but this wanted to kind of new approaches. Think problem Morton because right now I don't as you said I don't think we see we see the same thing delivered in different packages but we also don't see the success yet and we have a growth curve. That's. 

  

25:38.74 

chrissass 

Thirty five Twenty fifty and so if you look at um, evs right? Evs are a very efficient way right now from the technology we have for transportation for individual. 

  

25:59.92 

chrissass 

Companies every day. Yeah there's a lot of invest going into it but it doesn't mean that's a solution right? The storage and battery lifting. Storage tech. Yeah I watched this YouTube video yesterday it was it was funny. It was this gentleman I think he must either be a teacher or taking these kids and he was talking about energy potential and he basically puts a barrel of the pealon barrel on his roof uses a solar panel that was donated to him and runs a little pump during the day and pumps it out for. On lights all night long and basically so. 

  

26:31.21 

chrissass 

He basically used it to charge his own other things literally by putting. 

  

26:41.80 

chrissass 

Foreign um, none of that was sureably sexy and interesting I mean it is interesting to watch but it wasn't the terrible and new but isn't maybe that the I'm not sure the new is the word for it but isn't that the whole thing then that we're moving away from I wouldn't say moving away from. We're complimentmenting the. Big scale energy production the big scale energy distribution to what we've had on the show. We're talking about micro-grids we talked about small scale nukes. We talked about you know, maybe always bringing it down to private networks around this rather than having it. So You know, traditional the way we do it. So suddenly now that's got change right? I mean if you remember our interview with Meredith right? and so talked about the grid and the unintended consequences of policy right? And so if the base load isn't handled it according to em Meredith right? and we were talking about that what happens. So. Generate power and do some shaving of power prices and that you know do some interesting things. Somebody's still got to create pay for the baseload and where does that come from. 

  

27:45.99 

chrissass 

So that the podcast is really focused on the commercial. 

  

27:51.95 

chrissass 

That you know we we've had this conversation multiple times if you're going to do solar and if you're in a lowin income area or maybe an apartment complex. 

  

28:08.71 

chrissass 

So but that doesn't that's not mutually exclusive is it because if you look at evs for example, okay, the whole story. We take the number one in Tesla you know Tesla started off with saying you know we want to change the world by ev. Let's sell to the coolest car. The most expensive best car there is and from there on we'll take the profits and we build a kind of. A car for the normal person I don't think 70000 all the cars normal but the whole idea around it and nothing if you look at if you look at what we see with solar I think we had a few on the show talking about solar buildings sold both on scale and in terms of solar parts but also in smaller parts. Where suddenly now the economics is there. So you're not literally buying it due to the fact that it's renewable or that it's solar buying this is cheaper so the business model and we're friends I know you live in an apartment. Yep what solar are you doing well because I don't own the apartment I have no influence apart from being. Tenant of it. But if I go back to the house that I have in in Sweden I have a garage towards with the sun The few hours we have sun in Sweden is up. But yeah I get solar for like a week here basically the thing is that. You know I did a calculation of this before we moved down here Switzerland and even then the solar was quite expensive but the business model was there and imagine now it was 6 down six years down the road we're talking probably a third of that cost and it's not stopping so I don't see why not and never mind where you start seeing we had. 

  

29:46.21 

chrissass 

This on a few of the Ev guys coming on and you doing a whole series of evs where you have the bidirectional as Well. So I think you know the smaller scale I think is starting to become quite Interesting. We always talk about scale because there's energy but maybe not everything needs to be scalable. Maybe you take care of yourself take care of your. Neighborhood and that's a good start. Yeah mean I see that I mean I look at the geopox Politics college. 

  

30:20.80 

chrissass 

So a lot of it isn't the technology I go back to. It's all about. 

  

30:37.12 

chrissass 

Yeah, most of that stuff in the department we're sitting in right now right? um. 

  

30:51.40 

chrissass 

Need to you know if you if you're in Denver and you're putting a new development and you're go have solar in rooftop because that's what gonna need by code. It's also financially viable. It can be but I don't know that it always is I think I don't know that it's totally viable yet for everybody all right. That may be not everywhere. But you start looking at place in California or Australia. You know we see that um abundance of so sun to and I mean amazing and you weren't on the about two weeks ago weren't able to line up over holidays is I interviewed this couple that is driving. Through Africa so they started I listened to it and drove deraica and back and you know. 

  

31:33.83 

chrissass 

Bunch of solar panels out, get sixty meters of panels and charge your car and. 

  

31:42.25 

chrissass 

You're like oh cool I'll just gonna let your car I'll put panels on you know around me the property and what it showed me is that you actually can't I mean there the and there ranges four hundred kilometers or so a day that to 24 hours and you like I'm some limited but think but. 

  

31:59.22 

chrissass 

No for sure so to me that was pretty interesting. It was kind of. 

  

32:07.72 

chrissass 

But the reason it was fun is it was showing a use case or someone trying to make. 

  

32:13.64 

chrissass 

Grassroots and perhaps a lot of our guests who are actually coming in and so. 

  

32:42.43 

chrissass 

Water up during the day and get for the for the yes for the boilers. The. Forget what they I know which one you mean life forgot will put in the but links. But I think I think the once again, we we're talking about literally the doing the same thing we've done and just doing it differently in many ways. But if I if I change the subject. Totally you mentioned. Going off rail a little bit or going off road not just literally and with this electric vehicles for Africa but also what really fascinated me from the start when we set up the start of the show. You know we hadn't. We had an audience that we kind of belonged to in a way we looked at people working in the energy industry. Mainly across utilities and beyond a little bit beyond on some kind of senior level that that thought this could be interesting that's kind of who we talked to though. So the ones we talked to during the day and then they grew and 1 of the things that really that I really liked when we brought on a few and we had a few on. The investors. So suddenly now we got people that hold on this podcast is quite interesting because you bring on a lot of guests you bring on a lot of new topics that we might not have heard of and this is quite interesting because there's a lot it used to be in this I don't know about 2023 now but it used to be a lot of money available and there still is. 

  

34:04.46 

chrissass 

I mean absolutely I mean last night I was out with an investor coming out of daba. Go down there and there's conference going on right now and they were talking about markets for renewables and creating some new markets and there was a conversation. That's my day job is around markets and it was interesting. The kind of things that were being pitched in dabos you know over expensive bottles of. And over all the other stuff that goes with it but it will make a difference. 

  

34:33.58 

chrissass 

Yeah I think I think the investment angle is always important. We spent time Greentown labs had us there live in Boston we did interview our Hundredth episode was Greentown labs I don't know how many companies they've been able to help get funded along. 

  

34:50.51 

chrissass 

That the funding is fundamental to all of it now where I'm foolish and why we started the future leaders program is if I were 20 something today if could be um, what I would say is this is the same. I had when I was young when I went through and was in technology joined. 

  

35:10.76 

chrissass 

And it's even better because there's a forcing function here. There're trillions of dollars getting spent less now obviously with a current recession or whatever. But. 

  

35:21.99 

chrissass 

Just not hyper growth and there's still going to be opportunity because whether the economy is good bad or and different for the next 3 

  

35:29.00 

chrissass 

It doesn't matter people need to solve this problem and there's opportunity. 

  

35:37.21 

chrissass 

We spoke at eta ha um, their master's program. About a month or so ago and in speaking of my opening address I'm like. 

  

35:57.73 

chrissass 

The room are in a unique position to get funded are. 

  

36:10.00 

chrissass 

If I was at the beginning of my career I Wish I'd be there. You know I ending my career in this space. Where for me I have already said my next company is. 

  

36:24.82 

chrissass 

That's what wakes me up in the morning and that's what I want to do so I don't just want to be in energy I want to be in the energy transition. That's how I want to do the next startup I do when I want to do an exit from this one to. Energy transition that wouldn't surprise me at all I got to new here over 2 years now and discussing this I see your passion I got to ask you 1 question though, you do a lot of work on the universities you mentioned eth. We've done quite a few of these meet the boss kind of a thing where you bring. You know some of our leaders from the park energy access live energy access live thanks for the help of the explanation but 1 thing when I when I graduated university and where I come from the people that went to the energy industry was usually engineers and they were looking. Kind of a safe harbor you know you got a job in engineer company. You work your way up and it're kind of stable. So the people that went into where we come from which is the.com or the communication was more the cowboys that were looking for a wild ride and something that's changing. But when you speak to the. 

  

37:29.63 

chrissass 

Students today and you go to engineering one of the top engineering schools and in in Europe at least and not the world with eth. Do. Do you do you see that kind of does it bring back a little bit from the communication era and the kind of the DNA of those kind of. Persons that yes energy is now becoming extremely sexy. It's becoming something that is transforming and we see a lot of opportunities or is it still saying that we we're gonna do I'm an engineer I'm just gonna refine. What's always been done. So let's be transparent so we spent a lot of time in Houston I do spend time with Houston quite a bit Houston. Is energy capital the world despite you know, living here and a commodities capital in Switzerland there's quite a bit energy out of Houston and there's also quite a bit of people that understand that even if hydrocarbons are on their way down that there's still need and emphasis. There. So I was really surprised when I started working with a few of. More legacy companies that they could find employees because I couldn't imagine being 20 something and thinking I would want to go hydro do hydrocarbons. But I think it's a function of your background the economics and other things there but there are some wonderful people that want to do that and then there's others that took these kind of degrees and are doing things like carbon and sequestration. Doing other things to help improve the industry so thats that's one track? Yeah, then the majority of the folks that I'm meeting that wanted to be in energy are gen z and they just want to be doing the right thing they want to make an impact. So yes, they're willing to go work for a company. Um, but I think what they want to do is kind of people look at what they're doing. That's. 

  

39:06.97 

chrissass 

Where you know for me the dot coms was an extension of growing up in the 80 s and seeing the Reagan era and Gordon Gecko and you know everybody wanted to be a pharmaceutical sales rep back then. 

  

39:19.40 

chrissass 

The dot coms came along. That's good or commercial real estate. There were different trends along the way whereas if you wanted to make significant um upsides you enjoy. And I think the difference here is and I know a number of techs most of my tech friends have transitioned from just general technology to energy because they can make an impact right? So you can do something amazing you can still make a significant return There's still people that are going to make a lot of wealth doing the right. Saying as you drop energy cross down as you make it accessible. Everybody. There's. Businesses and I think the sharp young folks that see that now I don't just get engineers though I get people across the board that are reaching out whether they're coming into the future leaders program. We do quite a bit with some of the Mba program. We're working with Harvard's Mba program. There was a number of energy students involved there so it wasn't just the mit types. Talking to It was also the business folks. They're really doing a lot and pretty much every major Mba program has an energy program and so when we. 

  

40:24.63 

chrissass 

Can't throw these kinds of businesses in the speed without the entire team. Yes I need someone to design. I Yes I need software engineers but I also need marking people I Sales rep I need the entire gambit to make this out. 

  

40:37.45 

chrissass 

Exciting to be on beauty today which I think is wonderful and um and we have a few of them on I think I remember also one of the episodes we have on and with one of our climate. How should we put it and the one that said I was wrong about everything. Ah probably yes. Everything you said so far is just inaccurate even though we like a little bit of controversy on the show. That's an interesting but I think it's interesting because we talk about and we had numbers on the show I do this because I want to change the world I do this because of this the greater good et cetera e cetera but. Surely at the back of their head and that's what Elon Musk said about tesla as well and he became the richest man in the world in in literally 10 years so surely it's as you mentioned we're seeing also quite a bit of the financial and the commercial side of this one similar to I think what we did in the. But in the middle of the wild west right for sure. So the problem is and we've had this with solar developers and developers is you can basically anoint yourself an expert in the field. Ah fish I'm into energy and you're an energy expert now the divide that I've seen is there's the legacy. The kind of companies you came from that. Additional operators. They see the new people coming in and say they just there. There's no way a tech year this person come in and solve this problem because we've been doing this a long time. We've got the experience betterors energy market they don't understand. They're not going to be successful and both you and I came from telecom when we know no matter how much you want that to be. 

  

42:13.60 

chrissass 

Case that doesn't always apply now certainly there are lessons that we learned there's certainly things in the regulatory space and things that you need to have the experience to do, but it doesn't mean there aren't disruptors coming in to change it and it doesn't mean there's not a lot of opportunity to. Wealth but I don't think the majority of the young people I need are really concerned about wealth. They're concerned about having something that's rewarding to them making enough to be comfortable and do whatever their lifestyle demands but they're not looking to be yes I do know a few people have shown me a picture of a superyott and they' blood down that which no matter how inconsistent that is with your desire. Renewable energy because most inefficient thing you could have but they still have that desire and they want to help people. No I Totally and I think that's noble and maybe I'm a little bit was owning a Supernat Noble No not the super Jo of your of course. But the whole but concept of working for is not just. Profit but I'm pretty sure with the money we're starting to see coming into this. You got a platform you look at War What we used to do in my previous Job. We did software for energy management as well as Ev charging and you know we've had a few on the show as Well. That talked about this whole. System of Ev charging if we come back to that and some of them you can you can almost see that what we're waiting for is one of the big ones just to put pick us up. Yeah, and which is fine but it is. That's why you start business right? Yeah I'm an entrepreneur I'm starting I'm an energy tech that we started number of years ago. It's maturing. 

  

43:43.79 

chrissass 

Always looking for an exit right? No, but what I mean is that that's this part of it in in you know what? my mom taught me along the way right? if I have more means I can do more for sure right? So I can either to go volunteer and stop envelopes and do some stuff or if. 

  

44:00.20 

chrissass 

Quite dramatic right? And so I think a lot of these folks will have means because the businesses are going to start. 

  

44:08.11 

chrissass 

Pretty groups are going to make money on it. Um, and it comes at a good time right? There's recession. There's hard places to be there's just demand across the market to go do this. It's going to be driven. 

  

44:21.24 

chrissass 

People work in the normal world right now robots are replacing people absolutely that right? So if you can find a way to go into an industry that you should be able to reinvent yourself 2 or 3 times within that and. 

  

44:34.61 

chrissass 

it's a no- brainer no for sure and then don't take me wrong I'm a big fan of it as well and you start looking at the reinvestment that happens you know if you look at the I e look at the it investments out of the scandin you know obviously being in Scandinavian you see a few of the big ones I settled. Spotify and a few wants they raised so much money and the few of the founders and the few of the people that were there in the beginning klarn are being one of them as well. They didn' an exit with a lot of money but that money got invested in the ecosystem again I think we starting to see that coming into the renewables as well. Not just the big. The startup companies are doing the excess but is reinvest. More new technologies. You just mentioned it yourself once you do your next exit. You're back into renewable or back into the and e focus on renewable. So I think that's going to feed the system even more I totally agree. So we've had kind of a roundabout conversations. The virus we always do um. You know as we bring this kind of close 2023 is an exciting year for insiders' guys. We've got a lot of content growing. We've got some new players. We've got those eta hots atth students. We have about 2 or 3 of them joined us as producers we've got in the team that we had from last year continue to grow what do you want to see happen on the podcast personally is or a guest that you're dying to see or a topic that we haven't covered what do you want to see in 2023 and those of you listening please send in and we got a ton of email from you don't be afraid to send in an email or wearre one in your towns have a beer with us and tell you what you going to see. 

  

46:06.38 

chrissass 

We'll do it. But right now I want to know what Johan wants. There's the more you the more you go into this one the more you realize that you don't know I think that's a good starting point. So there's a few guests that I always wanted on and a few people. Obviously Ella Musk will be great to have on so elon if you're listening to this one give me a call and we'll get you on. Don't worry. There are certain areas that I think will be interesting and maybe even more from a public part from a regulatory point of view. It might be a boring topic but it's such vital. But it's funny. So Dominic who just joined us as a producer on the main show and he's still getting brought into the show policy and regulatory is his thing. The first list of the 5. 

  

46:53.83 

chrissass 

Hoping to bring on so the way we work at insider' guide is we're team. So yes, know we kind of dictate top down but the end of the day we all decide what we want to do including our producers. So those of you that want to meet people in the industry just do volunteer with us because you will and he made this list. He said hey you know you guys don't do enough policy. You don't do enough regulation. And literally his first 5 or 6 the spreadsheet sent me his first week on board was I want these guys to be on your show. So a pretty good chance since our newest producer wants that that you may get that this you see it. It comes around it comes around but this is what I like about the show is what I think we're we've done this we have a curiosity. We have had some fantastic guests that helped us to kind of curate this curiosity to a certain point. But um, the more we talk about it I think the more we see a little bit the directions we're going and we see the different pieces to so what I want to see is we got this set up for those of you watching the video you can see we have mics for a couple more people. So I'm waiting for Johann to use some of his local connections to get a few more beers and have all of us sitting around the table or around the living room sitting and have 3 or 4 of us and have a conversation in a room together just like we're doing today I think that would be fun and I think we'll go back and revisit some of the content we had. Um, is what I do find is every time we have a new show. It just creates more questions for me and it accelerates where we go is what I hope hons as well as like it did last year we had this whole pocket at mit startup store. They were amazing. The stories the success. 

  

48:30.23 

chrissass 

What I think will happen is we'll have another pocket of really interesting guests that bring along some of their colleagues and that's why I call it serendipitous word I have no idea what your topics will be but it's gonna be amazing. Ah agree I agree I look forward to I look forward work with you rest of 2023 for our audience I hope you've enjoyed this kind of. Fireside chat. It's been fun for me. It's been a little bit of reminiscent a little bit of insight. Johann that work were clearly very different. You watch the YouTube and watch me. 

  

48:59.76 

chrissass 

But let's go back to that point you know we're different people but the feedback I get from the audience. Is you both appreciate that we have different perspectives. We all appreciate that we have perspectives. 

  

49:11.82 

chrissass 

Look forward to 2023 look forward to hearing from you guys for audience if you haven't yet subscribed if you haven't shared with your friends please do and we will talk to you again next week. 

Introduction
Energy Ecosystem Complexity
Guest Selection
Cheaper, Better Energy?
Technology Favorites
Electric Vehicles and Solar
Geopolitics
Energy Investing
Young Talent in Energy
What's Coming in 2023