82: Babylon (2022)

Alex and Nick discuss a new film they both love that no one is talking about, Damien Chazelle’s big swing, "Babylon." The guys talk Chazelle’s career, the culture turning on prestige films, a never-better Margot Robbie, the parallels between "Babylon" and "Irréversible," and much more.
In the middle of the episode, Alex invites a lunatic to call into the show and share his opinion on "Babylon." Hold on tight for this one.
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Watch Alex's films at http://alexwithrow.com/
Watch Nick's films at https://www.nicholasdostal.com/
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Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching I'm Alex with there on. I'm joined by my best man, Nick. So how you doing there? Gloria Swanson. Wow. Way to go. Way to go. Way, go. I'm doing good, man. I'm. I'm fuckin pumped. I'm excited to be here. We're. We're very excited. We are in person. We're in my apartment loft here in the suburb of Washington, D.C. We rarely get to do these, like, in person. It's so fun. You're here for New Years. How are you feeling? I'm feeling like we've never done this before. We've never covered a movie right after we've seen it. We literally just saw Babylon and we saw Babylon. All 3 hours and 10 minutes of it. We went and had a little dinner and we just got back from dinner and we're like, Let's go, let's fire it up. We haven't we talked about it a little bit. But yes, we have just seen Damien Chazelle's Babylon and where to begin. We we kind of call our shot early on this one and we said like we're going to cover it no matter what, like whether we like it or whether we don't because we both like Damien Chazelle. But okay, this is our want to start before we talk about if we liked it or not. We did discuss a little bit today about like what do we know going into this? And it basically all I knew was that it was it is not being critically well-regarded. It has not made any money, which like no movie has, except no movie in 2022 as except Maverick and Avatar two. It's not making any money. Critics don't like it. And you know, I've heard it's outrageous. I've heard this all this crazy stuff. But we had talked about it was kind of like making us even a little more intrigued to see it. But that was about it. That's all we knew, like going into it. The the theory that I believe that we have is that the lower a Rotten Tomatoes score that the movie has is the more they feel like the movie. I've done a full 180 on this because that's exactly how it is. Now what we both agreed on is we were just kind of spitballing like, why aren't people like it is there? Why wouldn't critics be like this? And we both kind of identified early that it's probably not terribly politically correct. And I would say, I don't know, form minutes into it. And then like in minute eight, we were just dying laughing and I went, Yep, here it is. Like, here it is. It isn't that every it starts so strong. And then, I mean, I don't want to speak for you, but I was sitting right next to you like we both absolutely loved this thing. Yeah, we loved it. We had the time of our lives on this completely debaucherous ride. And I as soon as it was done, I looked at you and I said, You know, Damien Chazelle didn't do this incorrectly. People are just perceiving it incorrectly, I think. And I think times have changed a lot and this movie hasn't necessarily caught up with that. And I think it's a lot for people. But yeah, we both really liked it. I mean, I love it. I absolutely loved it. Like completely loved it. Like from start to finish. We had some people in our audience that I like. It was a bad audience to see a movie with, but I still nonetheless checked in and we had people get up and leave. Yeah, we did leave for good. Yeah, they left for good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We had people on their phone. Yeah, just idiots, though. It's like, Why are you here? I know. Yeah. Yeah, but they did checked out. Yeah, they checked out the people that were talking behind this ad that was just. They were just talkers. Yeah, I think they were a little nervous about some of the guys. I think so. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But outside of that, I was like, Huh, Okay. AUDIENCE Our audience. There are people that are literally leaving the theater, and I don't understand why the movie does change pace at a certain point, but if you're locked into it, that pace change is not a bad thing. And then where you finally go at the end, Oh my God, that end. Yeah, that end just blew me away. It like it's a big swing that big. And we're not going to do spoilers, spoilers on new movies, but, you know, like it, it arrives at a place. I mean, we're going to talk about all this, but like, the length is very intimidating. I know, but we're it landed. I mean, we both kind of we like gasped and kind of laughed. And I was just so impressed at the swing of it. I was like, Wow, he really fucking did that. Like, like, whoa, this is a this is a young woo. Okay. So this is something that we've never talked about on the part that I'll bring up is that we have a lot of conversations today about the directors of all American directors, to be specific. Yeah, yeah. Of who are the directors that we have today that are really kind of like paving the way for when that paving the way, the ones who are on the way like who are the young directors of today, and Damien Chazelle. I think he's got the capability because everyone under the sun loves whiplash. Yeah, yeah, for sure. La la Land was up for Oscars the most Oscars. It was tied with all about even Titanic and at the best Oscar nominations ever in the history of movies. And then you get First Man, which is a movie that nobody talks about totally. It's an unbelievably well-made, great movie. So this guy is like three for three. And then he goes and takes on the biggest movie he's ever made. Oh, yeah. And it is handled so well. Yeah, like it really is. This is his movie, like. Yeah, Yeah. I feel like I heard Damien Chazelle's voice. There was so well said, Everett. Like, okay, so when he went to La La Land because like Whiplash, it wins the Oscar for editing it, like rightly so. It has so many crazy cuts and all those things are cuts. La la Land has like a few of those now, much that it's very like concerned with. It's composed compositions, very long shots. There's not a lot the terrible amount of long takes and whiplash and then first man it's like it's he's way more concerned with like set pieces and that's like its own thing in terms of editing style. I don't remember a lot of like quick cutting and stuff. Babylon is a mix of all of that, all of that. There is some there is like these great set pieces of these really long one or shots, and then it's boom, boom, boom, boom. And he cuts like six times. And then you go back to what I'm certain is that oner. But we still have like those six insert shots and I went, okay, cool. So you're not this isn't this stuffy type of filmmaking where you're like, all right, it's all one shot. Like we got to I mean, this is it. This is it. Like you're okay to even break that shot and incorporate some of this really funky and fun editing? So it's the same editors whiplash. She's worked with him the whole time. Same DP is La la Land. And first man. So yeah, I agree. The whole time I was watching it, I was like, This is the movie. At least as of right now that he was born to make. Yes. Whiplash was like, Cool. You all gave me $3.3 million and 19 days to film. I'm going to do what I can, and that movie's just like a smash. It's Melo Lands like, right, here's a little more money. And then you know, you go have your, your glorious, like, Oscar moment of I mean we all know how envelope Kate went, but I mean you're like your thing like that was your that was a real big sophomore like crowning achievement. But yes man the whole time I was watching this and knowing it's not like we saw this, like we're not at a press screening. We're not even at this the day of where we waited so we could watch this together, knowing without reading anywhere, any reviews. We know the temperature that the culture is viewing this movie as. And that was just really upsetting me the whole time I was watching it because I went, I don't who knows what the hell is perfect anymore? I don't know. It's perfect. But like, I'm this is 3 hours, 9 minutes. I've never been bored. I haven't been bored at all. Not really enjoying it. I get everything. It's not hard to follow. It's immensely entertaining, incredibly outrageous. But like, what's the problem? Like, why is why? Why do people not care anymore? I mean, this is a different topic that we talk about a lot. But I just I kept I kept being hit with this thing of like this dude got $80 million to make this huge movie. It is a Damien Chazelle movie. And like, it doesn't seem like anyone cares. And I hope he's not internalizing that being like, did I do something wrong? Because he didn't know like a total expression of who he is as an artist that that's what this is. I was going to say this actually when we left the theater, I never got a chance. I'm glad we're doing it now. On the part line is that this is one gigantic piece of art. Yeah, Yeah. This is a this is his take on old Hollywood mixed with new Hollywood. Yeah. And whatever the fuck that means, because that's some question that we pose to ourselves all the time on this part is like, where is the state of movies today? Yeah, this is something that it's very clear that he is thinking about as well. It's so bombastic and outrageous, but it's also really grounded in a lot of real emotional. There's just a lot going on in this movie and it's all like easy, breezy, fucking good. I don't understand what the hell's wrong with me. I don't I mean, okay, well, you know, length and all that, and I guess they hear that there's, like, some crazy stuff in it, like, Yeah, it's not. I thought it was a very good reflection of the time, a very accurate reflection of the time. But this is, you know, the movie starts in like 1926 and we're in 2022. A lot has changed. I get that. But I'm right in the middle of this book called Hollywood An oral History by Sam Wasson, and he was on Bret Easton Ellis podcast. He's great. It's a great book, but it's like an oral history of the dawn of film through Netflix. And there and he got this none of it is fake. He got all this from like interviews that people did, you know, way after the fact, like inside the Actor's Studio before that, like talking like Greta Garbo, like doing an interview in 1940 and he's transcribing, saying that it is widely understood that film as an art form when it was created in the years that they figured out how to, like, actually tell stories in the in those sort of like 20 years since. So when this movie starts, people are having a fucking ball making these movies that don't have sound because it makes things so much easier when there's no sound. And this what I've gotten from just a knowledge of cinema and from this book specifically is when sound got introduced that changed everything. All the fun was out of it because it all became hyper technical overnight. You got to hit your mark. You have to speak your line right at this exact settings so that your directly above the microphone or else you have to do take after take after take when before a year before we can just go in the middle of the desert and act like fucking lunatics because it doesn't matter. We're going to add in those title text cards later. This movie captured that. I thought so. So well about how sound really did change. Like it just changed everything and it really decimated this industry, not only because everything had to be more technical, but like as the Margot Robbie character is illustrated, she has this kind of thick New Jersey accent and it doesn't you know, it's kind of it's funny and kitschy and cute for her first few sound movies. Then people are sick of the Jersey accent. They're like, You got to drop this. So I just thought it captured all that so, so well. It really did. And you really felt that that's the shift. That That's the shift. Yeah. In the in the pace of the movie where I started noticing people start falling out is because this movie is 3 hours plus. Yeah. Yeah. And a lot of that outrageousness takes up more than the first half. I would, yeah. I never checked my, my phone to check the time, but I was trying to keep a gauge of like. Yes, it was, it wasn't like exactly the halfway point. But there is, there's a very distinct shift, not unlike Boogie Nights, which is a movie we both brought up very quickly as we were walking to the restaurant, like there are not the whole thing, but there are shades in here of that. It's like, Look how fucking fun this is. And Boogie Nights when they're all shooting on film, film, film, film, seventies. It's all good. We're doing this. Everything is in tension. We have to pick our shots and then move to videotape. And it's just like, who cares? We just film and film and, you know, Yeah, Bill's daddy killed his wife. Like, everything sucks. It's the eighties. It's not that dramatic of a shift, but there's definitely a shift with the introduction of Sound in Babylon that was like as movie fan was just fucking fascinating to watch. Like, I just really enjoyed my time watching that shift take place. And it just, it, it really kind of resonates with where we're at today and this unknown spot when it comes to movies. So yeah, I, I really, I agree with your sentiment that I, I hope that the director, Damien Chazelle, does not think that he did something wrong here. And if you're going to make a movie as confident as this, yeah, I imagine that you probably knew going into it like this. It's a big swing. It's yeah. And yeah, I just worry about like not, it's not even his confidence. Like he'll be fine. Like he has a best director Oscar. He's the youngest person to ever win best director. He'll be fine. But it's like, is he or anyone ever getting $80 million to do something like this again? Like, is that going to happen where it's released in theaters and not on Netflix first? Like, I don't know. I just it was so much fun watching that. Just all of it was a feast. It's so well shot. The score is amazing. The sound is amazing. Like, the performance is great. But it was just I mean, it was shot on film. You can tell looking at it and I'm watching it like, but this is like actually a feast to watch. It was just fun to watch. It's a movie at all. See, in theaters. Yeah, it really, really is. It really is. And I mean, oh, my God, it's how things change when sound took effect. And I actually talked a lot about this on the Blond podcast when I started doing my and 17 break down about how things change in like 1967, 68, 69 with the banishment of the Hays Code. But the Hays Code started in the thirties, so everything before the thirties it was free reign. Like in college I took history of the documentary courses, some of the first images ever committed to film to celluloid, 24 frames per second, or pornography like I've seen it, I've seen it in the movie, kind of touch on that. But it's people just like going at it for a three minute short and this is like 1899 that this stuff was made. So the movie really touched on this like, Hey, this wasn't this is the twenties and thirties, but like just because what you've seen in movies of everyone very buttoned up, like the image you've been shown that we've been given in movies as not the way this was, There is coke, there's alcohol, a lot of alcohol. There was complete just sex mayhem from everyone, like everyone's having sex with everyone. It doesn't gender forget about it like it does. It doesn't matter. Like everyone's bouncing around and then it becomes with the evolution of matching sound to these images. That's also when the business took over and everything is in studio eyes. It's like, you know, you're working, you're an MGM player now, you're a Paramount player, you know, whatever, you're a Columbia player. And it became a business. Whereas before the thirties, before this Hays Code, people were kind of making money off of it. But these are like Nickelodeon's people are paying five $0.10 just to sit in for like a couple of minutes or a couple of hours. I really loved how it captured all that, like it was a crazy ass time. And it may not like if you don't know anything about this period, you might be like, Whoa, It's just like, this is too much. But no, this is pretty much how it was. Like everyone was just going nuts all the time. No cameras around taking pictures of you knows there's social media, right? Exactly. There. I was going to ask, like in talking about the NC 17 rating. Yes. Like this is not rated. And she said, Ah, ah. Now that blows my mind. Yeah. I don't I mean he would have, I don't know, I guess he would have towed the line here. But like I said, like by minute eight, I don't know if I've ever seen that in a major Hollywood movie. I, you know, there's some stuff that happens. Mr.. Mr.. Piggy I was like, Oh my God, this both were like, Holy shit. I was like, This movie's incredible. I don't care what happens out for this. The fact that this is even happening right now before my eyes, this is incredible. Well, the first thing like, I don't want to say what it is, but, you know, like in Saving Private Ryan, when like, that was the first time we saw, like, blood splatter on the lens. Oh, yeah. Well, that's cool. The same blood of the ladies. But I was like, I can't believe they're doing this, man. This is fucking crazy. And then, I mean, okay, let's a hug, right? I guess we could start to get into the. I do want to say I'm going to tease this. I don't know if it's going to happen. We've mentioned our friend Dan on the podcast a few times and I he saw the movie before us and he has been very, very interested to talk about it with us. So I told him, if you wants to call in during the podcast, I will answer it and we'll put him on the spot to hear what he thought. Again, this man's a total lunatic. We'll see. We'll see if that happens. But we we are telling him what we thought of the movie before he tells us because, oh, wait, we're doing that. I hope if he calls. I thought we were to have what he says first. No, that's what I mean. Okay. Okay. Wrong. No, we are going to make him tell us. Yes. Yes. What he thought first, because if we tell him, he would base his his opinion on ours and we're going to be like, well, null and void. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, we can get into Damien Chazelle like, I mean, obviously we both really love Babylon. Like, I'm going to say this a lot throughout this podcast. I would just really urge people to go see it. Like, my dad is a prime candidate for this. He he will I know him. He will love this movie. The reviews have turned him off from it. Like he says, the same type of reviews as Amsterdam. I watch Amsterdam the most terrible. Like that's it's like it's not a good movie. I'm sorry like this is not and to compare like I'm the only one making that comparison. It's just weird that the reviews are like, equally as bad, but I think bad reviews are probably coming true. Oh, my God, He's here. He's here. Oh, my God. He's. He's there in Colorado at 845. I told you we put him on for this movie. Hello? Hello? Hello. I just heard you up on the podcast. Your your live as we speak. Hello, fellow. What are you, Watchers. Oh, very nice. What do you what It's all about That. That's good. That's good, That's good. And Brace is here. We're taking callers. Okay. I told you I told you I We want to know what you thought of it before we tell you what we thought. So tell us. Just like high level stuff, what did you think of the movie? You know, after I got out of the movie, I actually wrote down on my phone how I felt about it. Okay. How often do you do that? Never. He knew because I told him I abided by the board here. That's why I appreciate the research. Well, also because I saw the first 45 minutes twice. That's right. You're. Wow. Well, you're close to Buffalo right now. He's not in Buffalo, but your power went out the first time you saw it. That's right. Yeah, it was. Are we doing spoilers? I want to like, say anything about it. Well, I mean, you can. I mean, in the first 45 minutes that's probably trying say you guys have context. Yeah. He is driving to pick up the camera. The power went out for me. Oh, that's ah, that's a bummer. That's such a cool scene. Everything up to that point. But it's so it's a really short thing that I wrote. I want to hear. It is I love the first two thirds and then the last third of the movie. It got super serious, so I was forced to shift gears the most emotionally. It felt like I was on cocaine through the entire movie. And then at that last third, the drugs were yanked away from me and I was forced to suffer and sit through the pain of it. So that's like Boogie Nights attorney said, Kind of. That's like, what? It's a great analogy. No, that that's great. That's very well said. I yeah like I hear that we haven't we haven't gotten to like that far in the plot description but we did mention that there are some tonal shifts. Some tonal shifts. Yeah. That is when people left. Yeah, I'm going to, I'm in the extreme minority and about you guys, but I have a feeling I fucking love it. Do we love? Yeah, we loved it. We loved it. I didn't know if you were going to like it. We we were tempted to like texture would be like, do we fucking to hated it and see what you said. But no, we love you. Wouldn't care. I will. I knew. I knew when I saw it when I finished it the first time because I haven't seen I didn't know how much the particular movie that the Damian pays homage to in the movie meant to him. And I've never seen that particular film that I'm talking about. So I'm like, by the end of the movie, when it's like when all that stuff happening, I was like, I thought of the both of you because I know you've seen the movie that I'm talking about so much in that movie. And I'm like, Oh, no, wait a minute, wait a minute. I genuinely have no idea what movie you're talking about. Oh, oh, okay. Okay. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Okay. No, okay. I will. I will have to cut cut that out. But I'll say okay. Yes, I do know what movie you're talking about. And it that's where. Yeah. Yeah. I mean that was, that was a really cool thing how they like compared that and we're weaving that in and you know they really brought it home right at the very end. But yeah, yeah, the first 5 minutes you see stuff coming out of things you never thought you'd see. We just talked about this stuff coming. The I loved it. I thought it was I mean it's this stuff is, is mostly ambitious. I mean, I've only seen these once each, but it's like, I can't believe they gave them carte blanche on this. I don't think I ever will again. Yeah, that's what we were just talking about. We're wondering. It's going to. It's tanking, but no, it's. It's just so ridiculous, dude. Yeah, we're. We don't want to say what it is, but the thing you're referring to. But then that's when we were like, Oh, okay, we get why people don't like this. But then and when we get to the party and it's the, you know, Piggy, is that what she's calling him or whatever you remember, that's when we were like, Oh my God. And, you know, Nick's laugh like, in comedies is nonstop. And it was nonstop. The elephant. Oh, yes, it was. Oh, yes, it was all it was all about someone yelling elephant walks. And they're like, What the. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You were like, What the hell's going on? Okay, well, wait, wait. What did you think of Toby? I thought he was absolutely bananas. Yeah, he was nuts. I read. I did read an article that he just did it because it was fun, but I was like, When are you going to show up? And then I'm like, Oh, it makes sense when it finally gets to him. Yeah, like, he's just like he's taking he's, he's, he's, he's showing you a part of Los Angeles that no one knows existed in that no one probably knows wants to exist. But it's just, it's just you just get as you get deeper into his into his I don't know, his psychosis, his psyche, his mind. It's. It's insane. Yeah. Like, yeah, he's drinking ether cocktails. Yeah. Yeah. Did you catch that? I was like, is that the same shit from, like, fear and loathing? Like, is that what they're drinking? Like, this is. No, he's. But yeah, Toby was wonderful. I thought. I thought, man, he stole the movie. Yeah, we were. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to talk about this. We? Yeah. Like, I've never seen that guy before. I had no idea who that was. And I thought they put a lot of the emotional weight of the movie, especially toward, like, the, I guess, the back half or the the lead on him, the the relationship with him and Margot at all in the trailer. Yeah. I never saw the trailer. I bought it, but I had assumed that no one knew going in that it was going to be about not the two of them, but that's like the core. Like their relationship as friends just goes throughout the entire movie. Well, my first clue was that he was nominated for like a Golden Globe, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I was like, Oh, wow, that's weird. I didn't. Okay, clearly this is someone to pay attention the most. Screentime. And yet Brad Pitt's always great always. But he's just like and also I have to say, the attention to detail going on in the background of all the scenes. Well said. Yeah, the first time at twice. So like when it's win win, I think it's when Manny is talking to Flea. I had no idea. Flea We didn't either. We loved it. We loved the Italy. He was great. He was great. Really good. Yeah. Because you see Brad Pitt, like, trying to walk across the balloons in the background and like, the beginning the first, like, 20 minutes and see, I mean, there's probably so much to catch. Yeah, See, I didn't even see that shit. So they something I noticed because I thought twice. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, it's just the tiny things in the back. Yeah. Everyone. I don't know. I love Margot. I the scene when they're shooting talkies is it's all. Yeah. It's just, it just feels like the way they cut it. Even like the musician, like. Yeah, yeah. You know, that pussy song is a real song. I read that an article, by the way. It is. It is a real song. Came out in the twenties. Wow. Because that's what I'm saying. Like, everyone thinks the twenties were all prude, but it wasn't like they were around doing this stuff. Well, okay, I did not know that that's all over the place, but no, it's okay. It's okay. Brain scattered like the movie. But yet the way it was cut, it just it never made you feel comfortable until the cuts. The scenes got longer and jumped left in the last third. Yeah, that's true. That's true. I definitely noticed that kind of it was. It was a drug, like I said, like a drug, like I said, on cocaine. And then the coke was taken away. It was taken away. Take it away. I was like, okay, any questions for Dan for signing off? You did very well. Dan I thought you hated I did. I'm glad you liked it. No, I want to see it again. But it's such a commitment. I mean, yeah, it is. It was where you bought it all. That's. I guess that's a good question. Very. You feel that there is a time maybe, and like, the second. Third or that they were two thirds in. I was, I was like are we going to get a lyric aleo cameo. Well I mean he's friends with Toby, right, And Lucas houses. Yeah. Yeah. Lucas has yeah, Yeah, I, I was because it felt like a movie. Leo would just pop in. It would have been cool. That would have it. It would be cool if he was in like, that dungeon. Oh, my. You just one of the people. What if he was the main the main attraction? Look at this freak like minute two you were in. Yeah. Yeah, it was. Oh, yeah, it was. Yeah, it was pretty much from, like the first explosion and then with with Peggy, I went, Oh, my God. Like, I can't believe. Oh, yeah, I couldn't believe he's doing it. Okay, one thing that I'll let you go. Yeah. It's also like, I mean, this is going to be cut, but it's like the scene where he walks in to the talkie for the first time. It's like, I can't imagine people in their twenties losing their mind. Yeah, no, no, that's. I already touched on that about how the introduction of sound like changed everything because it made everything so much more technical and you saw like that sound engineer was like directing the scene, like he was the person in charge of like, No, you got to hit your mark. You had to do all that stuff. Yeah, exactly. Exactly. So ridiculous. I know, I know. That's how it was. And last question, Dan, did you notice that there's a melody that's the same melody from La la Land that also appears in First Man and also appears in this. No, I didn't. You did. Yeah, that's a dead answer. Yeah, it kind of sounds like City of Stars. It's like a little sweet. It's like a little PNC. Yeah, but I feel like it would come up in, like, the most random times, right? Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes. Usually to, like, put a little, like, punctuation on an emotion or something. You guys both on a set throughout. Yeah. Yeah. And you said Nick said something to me and, and I was like, Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. Well, I mean, I rewatched La La Land this morning because I got up early, so I was watching it. So that was kind of fresh in my head. And I definitely, I do not remember it from First Man though, is I don't remember. It's even more subtle than it wasn't this okay? But it happens when any time that he's looking up at the moon. Okay. Oh, it's a good kind of. Yeah. Good. Margaret is terrible over that guy. Oh, yeah, that was. That was obsessed. Yes, she was great, man. Got to really? Yeah. Wait a minute. Okay, one question. Literally. Last question. I'm going to let you go. What was like do you know the industry that Tobey Maguire was in or like, I just kind of missed that. Obviously, he's not connected to the film business, but like, what did he do, though? Robbie's character, she, like, lost a bunch of money to him, I guess, cause I assume that was she. I think it was gambling. Yeah. Yeah, it was. It was. But he must. He must have. I think he must run a casino, an underground casino, I'm guessing. You know, that makes sense. Since L.A., like deep, dark L.A. underground guy who has ties and everything, and she lost a bunch of money because even Manny mentions, like, you do not get involved with these people. Yeah, well, yeah. And, like, I mean, I'm going to mention a filmmaker that you're a big fan of. Like, I got irreversible vibes from that. I mean, they're going down, like, in this Descent into Hell with all that red. And. And that was right after the kind of Boogie Nights stuff. I was like, Oh, I see what he's doing here. He even called it the asshole. The asshole? Yeah, it's called the asshole, right? Yeah, the asshole of L.A.. Yeah. Director of Jesus Christ. That was. That was absolutely a fucking irreversible comp. Absolutely. Yeah. It's the guy I love. It was the guy that went with Manny. Was he the drug Sherpa? Yeah. What they call him the Count. He was the count. Yeah. He always had the drugs for that. Yeah. Yeah, He's a great fucking idiot. That that that. That was a great scene. I mean, we're jumping around here. I know, but when people get to that scene, that was like a lot of tension there. We were like, Oh, fuck. It was. I mean, he said it was. It was like, like every descent into a different floor was more and more like the deeper they get into this whole they've dug, they put themselves in. Yeah. Yeah. And it's just, oh the harder it is it to crawl out and every floor gets more and more fucked. Yeah that's right. Oh it's just. Oh not one floor down. It's okay. All right. Thank you, sir. We're going to let you go. You guys would love it. Yeah, we did. We did? Yeah, we definitely do. Very much. Yeah. No, I'm going to actually, I'm going to about. I'm about to watch everything everywhere. I'll watch my parents when I'm really excited. Yeah. Oh, really? I'm kidding. Oh, God, Tim, it's. Oh, they got so excited. It was gonna be like, take two, take two. It's going to come around. Oh, fuck. Fucking hilarious. No, I did. I did watch Spirited the Bryan Reynolds and Will Ferrell with them and it was quite lovely. I've heard it's funny. So fucking spirited love for I, I do. I love Will Ferrell too. I'd like to see it. It's a, it's a musical, but it's great. Are you all right? Thank you, sir. We appreciate your time. No, we're off when this podcast is done. I want to talk more and more about this fucking movie. Yeah, we will. We can get info on spoilers and stuff. Yeah, it's wild. Okay. All right, guys. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye, then. That was fun. That was good. That was no surprise. You did well. Everything you said. Yeah, All out. Everything I said was. I mean, God, where do we even go from here? That was. Yeah, that was jumping around a little bit. I took his first point and just without spoilers, kind of get into that about how the movie does like, change. It has like a vibe in it. So okay, let's, we'll talk about the structure now, how it starts. Like I was clocking early on that we're getting like a 15 to 20 minute to 25 minute set piece, basically. And that's what he's doing. And we had like four or we basically had like five of them. And this it's not like there's not like chapter cards or anything, but I got that. That's what he was doing. And then he kind of abandoned that. And it went more, much more like narrative focused of following these people around. And I was okay with that. But that's like, that's a big shift to take, But it's something you can do in like a three hour and nine minute movie, you know, And and I think, you know, Dan actually brought up a good point about the way that that made him feel, because I think if I had to guess that was the intention. Yeah, the intention was okay. Yes. Because we are talking about how this was all so much fun until it all changed. And when you're on that ride and then it drops, yeah, all of a sudden reality sinks in now and like, this isn't fun anymore. And now life is here. So I, I can see how artistically with when Chazelle made that choice, this is this the pacing, the tone, everything changes. And even in a three hour movie, this is going to be a hard pill for people to swallow. Yeah. And now if you're on the ride and you're watching it and being like, okay, this is all intentional, I don't think people think about that very much. I don't think people understand necessarily that this is a this is the choice the directors making these making it for specific reasons. This feeling that you don't like anymore is not the movie falling apart. No, it's all intention. It's all intentional. And I think maybe audiences kind of look at what they've been seeing and now what they're seeing and being like, The fuck happened? This movie, it just fell off the rails. This is a really good point. This is a really good thing to talk about. I mentioned this when I talked about when I gave like my capsule review of Tara. How it's so I've noticed. I don't know when this trend started of calling something saying as as a way to criticize a movie that it left me cold and it's like I, I get that. But sometimes I mean if a comedy leaves you cold in the comedy fail, but like, if a movie like Tara or Babylon have certain parts of it, if you're like, well, I was having a lot of fun. It was really outrageous. And then it just made me feel like kind of uneasy and cold. It's like, Yeah, that's the point. And, you know, whether you vibe with that or not, that's up to you. That's why I keep, I don't know, Boogie Nights is just like really in my head about how you think you're watching one movie and then William H. Macy does what he does at that New Year's party. Yeah. Oh, this is a completely different movie. And again, I'm not saying that that that's like the most dramatic change ever in Boogie Nights. BABYLON It doesn't really do that. But I kind of sensed watching it like, okay, this is really very debaucherous. Everything's all fun. And knowing what I know about cinema, how like the bottom kind of gave out in terms of the creativity. When sound was introduced, I went, I don't know if this is going to I don't think this is going to be a happy go lucky time for everyone involved the entire time. And I dug that and I know you dig that, But yeah, I think it's I think it's okay to prepare people for that sort of journey that this isn't like I mean, where's the conflict? And everyone just like having a great time for 3 hours or 9 minutes, you know, like some shit's going to go down, That's all. Yeah. And I think I don't think it's a bad thing to say that, too, because I think if you're listening to this and you haven't seen it and you're going to go see it and take in everything, the movie's given you like have fun with the movie when it's having fun, but then also like stay in it for even if it's not exactly nice or pleasant, like this is a director that's like, truly, truly he's got something to say. Oh yeah, and it's not a bad thing. I agree. It is not a bad thing. That's exactly why I told you. Like he did not get this wrong. No, because, like, I, I, I've loved all the movies that he's made, and I would have been the first to say, like, I mean, this was a little too a little too indulgent, a little to this. And I remember telling you, like, I think the length will be because I'm wondering if they're going to have an overture in intermission. All that didn't have any of that? No, it didn't. And it didn't need it. Like no mood. It moved just fine. But I did wonder if it was going to have that. And I'm like, you just made a three hour, nine minute movie because you could like. And that's the only you know, there's a little bit of Magnolia in that as well of like you, you know, here's your not blank check but here's your $80 million check, Like, here's your carte blanche. Go do what you want, your final cut. And it is a shame that it's being I mean, just completely critically ignored. I didn't really I didn't expect this. I didn't I don't know. I know people aren't going to the movies as much, but I thought I genuinely did think that Avatar two would have. It's kind of like a I forget what you call it, like a a counter release. Like, I remember when I went and saw I'll try to go see Independence Day for the first time, it sold out. So my mom was like, All right, we're going to go see this movie called The Rock instead. And today, I like the rock better than Independence Day, but they released it at the same time for that reason. So it's like, you know, Avatar two is PG 13. Maybe some other people, like maybe the kids go to that and the adults go to Babylon. That's how it was when we were kids in the nineties that clearly with these numbers it just that that doesn't exist anymore. This movie's made $5.9 million on an $80 million budget. And that $80 million budget does not account for marketing in this Trailers played before every fucking movie I've seen for like the past two months. So like the marketing budget was high. So that's, I mean that is a like, that's a huge bomb. And I just talked about the film and like, this movie's bombing too, and I don't I don't know if these are a reflection, if this is a reflection of the directors anymore. I actually I don't I don't think it is at all. I think it's a reflection of the audiences. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's exactly what this is. I think I think movie audiences, especially since coming out of the and the way that they choose to go see movies now, I think it's very, very clear that if they don't have it prior relationship to the movie in some type of way where there's a history behind it or like I've brought Christopher Nolan, I think he's the only director, American director right now. We're talking on American audiences that will make a movie and people are just going to go to it just because they want to see when Nolan does next. I think Nolan, who is British, would take exception to your American comment. Oh, well, that's no, that's very true. But you know what? You literally brought that point up yesterday. This is why 2023 is going to be kind of fun for us in the way that like we're going to be tracking Oppenheimer because Nolan movies do well whether they are related to Batman or whether they are Inception or Interstellar, like they make money. Tenet did not do well. And that's because of that's a lot of because that was literally the first movie released in theaters after COVID. So I get that. But Oppenheimer is going to be like a real big test because if that movie bombs, if people don't show up for it, we're for I don't know. I'm just saying it'll happen. Okay. I, I, I, like I so badly want to agree with you. I don't know anymore. I knew Avatar two wasn't going to bomb and we're going to do an Avatar two episode coming up. I knew that people were talking all this shit about it. You don't doubt Big Jim? I knew it wasn't going to have a huge, like crazy opening weekend numbers because Avatar two is going to be in theaters until like March or April. So it's going to make it's money. I knew that. But if Oppenheimer doesn't make money because he's he's really one of the last ones like I'm doing IMAX, I'm doing this. So I'm very curious about that. I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I think I think that will be fine. But I mean, I don't like unfortunately, because we were going back to the beginning part of this podcast episode, we were talking about directors. Yeah, that can sell. I did think I think Damien Chazelle is a director of today that I think is pretty much like, Can you think of anyone that doesn't like whiplash? Like, No, I've never spoken with someone who's like, I wasn't it wasn't for me. Like, I've never I've, I've talked to people. Some people on film Twitter have it went through a bit of a reappraisal that I don't agree with about just their relationship and how it's toxic, which it is, of course, and how he shouldn't be finding validation through such a toxic figure. And it's like that's the I think that's the point. Exactly is correct. Oh, I know. I'm just getting upset. But no, like, I mean, that movie's just like, thrilling. I get why people would have their issues with La la land or First Man wouldn't be for them. But Whiplash is like, it's kind of like that's just it's such a good, perfect indie. Yeah. Million dollars like hands Good. And La La Land is pretty much beloved. Like, like, Yeah, I feel like Damien Chazelle is a director. That pretty much across the word. Jen I'm generalizing here, sure, But for the most part people that that, that know his movies are like I like that director Yeah And he's young Yeah. And so when you're thinking about these young kids, he's now going to be like, he's only going to be making big movies. I hope so. I mean, I hope so. But we kind of talked about like there's not many young directors now that are really coming up that are going to be that kind of director. Like a champion for film. Exactly. And this is a guy that we talked about even before Babylon was even, like, greenlit. We're like, I think Chazelle's kind of got his finger on the pulse. Yes. Of being the director, the up and coming director who is clearly making good work. I said before we saw this movie, he's three for three and. I believe he is four for motherfucking four with this. Yeah. Boy, the audiences, it's just tricky to something like the fable and gets like astounding reviews and it's going to be nominated for a bunch of Oscars. I know. That is whether it wins in the I don't know, I was kind of calling my shot and being like, Spielberg might win his third. That seems less and less likely because like, no one saw that movie, but that movie was still critically revered and no one showed up to it. And then Babylon doesn't get the critical appraisal that the fair woman's got and still no one showed up to it. So my whole thing is like, are people even like going to discover these movies when they're like, release later? Like, I don't. Damien Chazelle is of the very few people who does have his pulse on the stuff and who really like watching any of his movies. You go. Not only does this guy love movies, this guy knows what he's doing. He knows. We were talking this morning like the first 15 minutes of First man are like some of my favorite. It's just one of my favorite scenes from any movie the last ten years. I thought it was like, incredible and so tense. And I'm like, How the hell did you do this? Like, this is that level of tension, like that's made by someone who knows what they're doing and really cares that their audience feels that level of tension. And I love that about him. I wish more people cared. I don't know. I don't know. I wonder if this will be a thing like when this comes out on streaming, if it'll do well. I mean, this is a movie to go see in theaters, but maybe it will. It'll be interesting to see how this does during awards, because is this a situation where you double down? This movie tried to get its money back by like having him win a bunch of awards and be like, Hey, everyone, the Oscars are coming up. Go see Babylon. It's the greatest movie you'll ever see. And they're really trying to push that. Yeah, we can talk about something because that could be a narrative. Yeah, I mean, I had Oscar predictions, not even I'm not even at the winner phase yet, but just like nomination phase about how. Okay, so before the 2018 Oscars were announced, I literally thought he was going to be right up there for you know, he's going to be nominated for directing first man like Gosling is going to be nominated everything. And then it comes out and he gets like four nominations all below the line. Names like, you know, wins visual effects, which is good, gets like a sound nomination. So I went, okay, something's changed here because he nominated La la Land 14 times. And you all said, like, fuck you to first, man, I don't know how this is going to do nomination wise. I genuinely don't. There's ten best picture nominees. I don't. I don't even know if it sneaks in there. I know in my mind, Oh, man, I hope I. I do too. I mean, I, I don't know, like, critics didn't like it and like, no one's showing up for it. But there usually is one movie that, like, kind of surprises us and gets a few more. I don't expect the best director. I don't know. An acting nomination. I don't know. I don't know. And then I would love if I loved Margot Robbie in this. I loved her in it. I would love for her to be nominated. Might be my favorite performance I've ever seen. Yeah. Like she was really good and really committed. I think this could get nominated for a score, potentially cinematography, sound, editing, all that stuff. But it's going to lose all that to Avatar or everything everywhere. So it's like it's not going to win anything. I really don't think so. And I don't I don't know. It's it'll be to track that. This is completely off topic because we're going to the Oscars by the spring up for I forget we were having a conversation about sound. Yes. And I said I don't think anything could be Top Gun. And then you're like, Avatar, Avatar two. But then when I saw Avatar two, I still think Top Gun. Really? I still think we're going to see. Yeah. Because it's just one sound. One sound. Oscar Now we'll see. I mean, I know what we will see. We will see, motherfucker. I think Big Jim has more people working on his movies, and that means more voters. And I think he's. Yeah, Jim's like, Hey, I need to get my below the line, guys. I mean, that's what happened. Avatar, like Avatar won cinematography, which was weird to me because that was like, we're totally accepting like CGI worlds as, like best cinematography, you know? I don't know. I thought that was strange. Yeah, I don't like that I know I didn't either. It's time. Well, Chazelle's films have won Oscars for editing, sound mixing, cinematography, score, song production design and visual effects. Do you think Babylon will win any of those? I think will get nominated for some but win. I feel very strongly that I hope it wins for score. I think the score, the score to be scored fair that it could do that production design. The production design was fucking incredible. Like, like I don't know if you can give that to Avatar two because it's all CG. It's right. It's like your call. It could do production design, it could take that. Yeah. Because I mean, yeah, you go to period. Yeah, they'll go period. Movie score is a good call He's one before Justin Justin Horowitz you won for La la land. He did that score So yeah he could, he could get in there. Very cool. I would love to see a nomination for Margot. I really would, too. And then I guess the only other thing, I mean, the director I would give Director. Yeah, I would nominate for a director. Yeah. Over like with everything else we've seen, I don't, I guess it's probably not going to happen. I don't know because I mean, like, this guy directed the fucking shit out of this movie. Yeah, he really did. Like, it moves so well and there's so many. I mean, like, big like, that's what I like I said in the beginning, I'm like, this is. This is his movie. Like, this is a Damien Chazelle movie. And I couldn't really say that about the other ones before. I was like, All right, this is fair. This is the musical, This is a space movie. Yeah. Damien Chazelle's movie. And it's like it plays. It's just maybe not, you know, culturally where a lot of people are from the culture. I was going to say, should we talk about political correctness and some of the things? Should we give trigger warnings for things that are in this movie? Go see it. Have fun. Yeah. Yes, yes, Have fun. There it is. Just liberal in its use of certain things that I was like, wow, I didn't I Well, but then also, okay, here's what I'll say about that. Here's what I'll say. You're going to hear some some words that we are not used to hearing anymore and I get why they are doing that. But then they also like some of that is played for humor. Like haha, it got real. That dude, that saxophone, that Oh yeah, that, you know, that's I don't want to say what it was, but like I didn't, I didn't know if they were going to show it. And I was like, who are how they handle this? And then they handled it by like a really long close up. Yeah, I was like, and I know we're being little, you know, cagey in how we're talking, but if you've seen the movie, you'll know what I mean. And it was a very, very real thing at the time. But that itself is bringing in like, that's not something we can put on film anymore. But he did it in a way that was like tasteful and necessary for that character to show, Yeah, what these people had to go through, especially people color. Well, that and now and then there's a lot of like really, really hard hitting emotional deaths, movie hits for appropriate reasons, whether they're like, considered inappropriate at the time now or ever. And it's important. It's important stuff. Yeah. Damien Chazelle, creator, actor, young director, we have been saying and referring, I think even when Dan was on like that, he's made four films for four four. He did make one in 2009 called Guy and Madeline on a park bench.$60,000 Budget premiered at Tribeca Film Fest in 2009. Unseen, you and me and I tried it on. It's just not easy to find like you can't even rent it for like 399. But black and white, I know it has a big jazz influence. I don't know how many people have honestly seen that. I think a lot of people have seen Whiplash 2014, which I've said, you know, he makes for $3.3 million. It makes $13 million, which was like a big deal in 2014. I remember five Oscar nominations, three fucking wins. Yeah, that's like, I don't know, man, in a lot of years, I look at like 2014. It's like terms of the Oscars, in terms even like movies. Like that's when it I don't know, it's kind of odd. Things changed after that. Like I don't was last time we saw a movie of that size a literal That was the definition of a sleeper hit, like a sleeper indie hit that when I saw that movie. When did that come out? October, November, maybe of 2014. I did not see that thinking like, this is going to win Oscars. And then that steam started to get rolling. And Roland, Roland, you're like, Jake, he's going to win this. Whoa, Is this going to win? Best editing like this? And I just love that. We don't really get that anymore, that's all. You mean you didn't get that with Coda? No one can get a fucking coda. Jesus, could I still I know, like, two people who watch Coda, like, in my real life. I know people listen, have seen it because I like movies, but like people in my life, they don't know red or green book or. No, I mean, there's just, you know, we've we, we diverted in a way, but whiplash. They shot it in 1920 days premieres at Sundance. Huge hit. We've already talked about it a little bit but like you really like this movie, right? Yeah. Whiplash. It's a great film. It really is great. Fucking. It really is. I can put it on like any time. It just moves. I actually watch, like, those last 10 minutes like this all the fucking time. I'll put it on YouTube, I'll watch it like all it'll if I need to be like inspired, I'll watch that if I need sometimes even a good cry with the Paul Reiser look. Oh my God. Like yeah that that is one of the in the last ten years, one of my favorite endings. Yes. That's in my top three favorite endings of all time. Wow. What are the other two? I had to think about it. That's how good it is. Oh, man, I know this dude. I left out of my chair. Like, when you. When did you first see that in theaters? I saw it in theaters. I went with my friend Brendan, and he was in the. He was in the Editor's Guild. Yeah. Went to the we went to like this like an Editors Guild screening of In a tiny Little theater, but very cool. And I was just so taken in the movie. But then finally, like when they lock eyes, yeah, they understood each other that they finally, like, reached and then the crescendo and like that when, when that thing hits. I left out of my chair. I was so moved. Perfect ending because the end of like any other movie that kind you have, you have a little ha ha coda at the end of it of like it cuts the black and then it's them either having a coffee or like, you know, it's all he's he's reconciling with the girl that they broke up with. It's something hacky like that. But no, it just boom, he hits that, he hits those drums and you're out. And that's that's part of the genius of it. And that movie was just edited the shit out of it by Tim Cross. Edit He won the Oscar and that was I mean, it was just so cool to see. So cool to watch. I love that movie when you can, when you can communicate and like basically, like for the most part, the last like 15 minutes of that movie, there's no dialog. There's a couple like little bit when they're yelling at each other, but the movie is culminating with no dialog. Yeah, yeah. And it's there is fewer times I've ever been more enthralled by that progression. And then finally, when you can reach both characters like that, I mean, when he fucking takes off that jacket, when J.K. Simmons takes all this Jack and he's like, This shits and slams it down, like on top of his music, and he, you know, holds his hands up, you're like, Yeah, yeah, everyone. Everyone is just in it. God, Yeah, that's a great. So then I love Whiplash. Two years later, we get la la land $40 million budget. Now gross is 151 in the U.S. alone. I thought it was a hit. Well, and was a hit as a hit. 14 nominations again tied, with all about even Titanic as the most nominated film in Oscar history. Perhaps a little excessive, I don't know. Six wins did not win Best picture as well. Got a botched won best director. He was the the youngest best director winner ever. Still the youngest, best director winner ever. Emma Stone wins. Yeah, I was really I really like this movie. I just need a little join my life at the time. And I did rewatch it this morning because it had been a while and I can say like I still really like it, but I told you, I said I wanted to put it on to see if, you know, it's a much more photographically daring movie. You remember there are a lot of scenes that are like, so well done, or that one part I was like, is a fucking champagne vignette for like that party scene for like a long period of time. And I went, okay, I really the use of primary colors, the use, the like Yeah, it's just, it's a good movie. I understand that it's not for everyone. I get it and it's not something I put on even every year I get it. If I have to be forced to watch a musical, I'm looking for that one. Like, Yeah, it's probably my favorite musical. Like, like, honestly, like if I'm if I'm trapped in a situation where it's like, All right, we're watching a musical, I will be like, We are all right, it's La-La Land around. Can we find La la Land? Because that's what I would say if South Park wasn't available, Right? Yeah, that's the best. Yeah. Uncle fucker. Ha. I do want to say about La la land though, like then and now. The thing I love most about that is the end. It doesn't get enough credit for the set and is a fucking brilliant editing. Really. It really stuck it in there is not what he does, you know. When he does, he does know how even first man which had a pretty I didn't know it was going to end that way and it was so simple dialog free and so as la la land they're not saying just looking at each other. Yeah. Which is very interesting. First man comes out, they give him $59 million to make. This makes 45 in the U.S. alone. That's not that good for nominations and one win you know it this is one of the ones we talked about this on the Tarantino podcast. I was like, it felt like a little bit that there was a bit of an academy overcorrection for. Django Like, maybe we should have given a screenplay to Inglourious Basterds, but we didn't. So now we're going to give Django screenplay like, okay. And I'm that's an opinion I have, but I've also literally heard Tarantino say those exact words. So like it said, and I feel like this is the opposite, where they went, Wow, did we go hard for la la land? All those nominations, all those wins? I don't you know, whatever on first man, we can cool off on it. And then I see this movie and I'm like, This new is fucking incredible too. Like, where are all. Yeah, I love that. I love first, man. I know you do, too. It's, it's a you just talk about a movie being well done. Yeah. I mean, this is the movie that So in case anyone doesn't know it, it's it's based on the true story of Neil Armstrong in the first moon landing and how we got there. Yeah. And being the space nerd that I am, that movie is pretty dead on. Ball's accurate for the science behind it. How it actually went down So outside of of a documentary you're getting from that movie, a pretty really good close interpretation of how everything went. And that's always a tricky thing to do when you're talking about true stories like that. We are because it's never boring. I mean, they have like funny scenes of like, we're learning all this math or this whole book tonight, but it's not boring to watch. It's not boring to watch and all that. So the Neil Armstrong was going through, that's how he was. He was a very closed person. He was obsessed with getting to the moon. So so that that movie really handled history very well in a narrative form. And it's just a really good fucking movie. You and I both saw that movie for the first time. We saw it individually. We both thought that like they were getting a Hollywood and movie when they're trying to land on the moon. Yeah, about how like, they may not be able to make it. It's like, we don't know. Like we didn't account for this crater. Like, we don't know if we're going to do it. I didn't even know that was real. Yeah. And I was watching. I'm like, You had to put this in like, this thing. And then you get home and get on Wikipedia and you're like, Oh, fuck, that was real. No, that's not even intense. Buzz Aldrin's heart rate, like, Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Because he never sold it. Yeah, that's right. Yeah. He was notorious for never stressing out. Wow. And then that moment, like, that was the only time where his heart rate shot above, like, normal. Yeah. And that points out, like, because he wasn't even the one landing, it, it was Neil. Right. So basically, buzz is like, you got this right? Yeah. Are you going to do this? Yeah. Yeah. Handles that so well. Yeah. When you leave the aircraft, it's silent. Oh, people slept on that movie. I don't, I don't know what happened. I was 28. Hard to find streaming too. I was going to watch that this morning instead of Lala land because I've only seen First Man twice. And even me, I'm like, I own whiplash. I own la la land. Why have I not bought the 8799 Blu ray of First Man? And, you know, it's like I'm part of the problem. I put it in the problem. Could it have been space? Like were people kind of burnt out from gravity, from interstellar? Do they just not want to go to space? But I don't know. I'm the way I feel like people always want to go to fucking. Yeah, like space is awesome. Space is awesome. BABYLON It's not in space. It's on the ground.$80 million budget, 5.9 million. GROSS So far as of this recording, you've already touched on that a lot. I mean, we are just we're just urging you to go see it. You know, if you don't make it out to the theater, I get it. It's a big commitment, but I don't know how it's going to do on streaming. Just don't give up on it like that. Yeah. So we'll get into don't let the bad reviews affect you from going to see it. Yeah, please like that. I don't even know what critical consensus is anymore because like, again, it intrigued me that the reviews weren't that good. But look, you know, you know what? What were the critical connect? Yeah, exactly. It's just it just matters. If people only watch the movies we told them to, they'd be like, Jeez, every fucking thing. Yeah. I try to give a good balance of things. It's hard. Brad Pitt was good. Damon's right. He's always good. He's carrying the movie in the beginning in like he's grounded and all that and all this really incredible debauchery and he's, you know, you're following him through. And it's funny because it's like, Hey, this is Brad Pitt. But when the movie is crazier, I thought he played that so well, but then he's right in there when things get more serious. Yeah, he really handled that transition, kind of like he just handled it well in terms of like, where's my role in all of this? Like what? What does this all mean? I thought he handled it really well, and I thought it was a really good performance for him. I mean, obviously, you know, I just thought about now as you were talking about it and this is a ruin anything the things that he actually states that he feels and wants in the very beginning of the movie. Yeah. Are actually the same things that he actually longs for in the end but it but in a different way. Exactly because exactly he longs for the same thing but the world had changed so the things that were that now that he wasn't happy in the world anymore and he still wants these things right. That's actually a very interesting kind of like life perspective. Yeah, that's cool. I want to hear what people like, people who actually appreciate the movie. I want to hear what they think about like these performances because he was great. Margot Robbie, I would probably say is like the star of it. I mean, if had to give top billing, I would give it to her based on like where the narrative is grounded in. Obviously people know Brad Pitt because you're going to put him at the top. She is great in this and this is right up there with this is in the running for her best performance. Yeah, I thought she carried it so well and definitely different and she went through all of it. Like I said, she was fun to watch. She really wanted to be with her and hanging out with her. And I believed her when she, you know, broke down and broke bad a few times. Yep. I loved her. I that's one of my favorite performances of the year. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, God, she was so good. She was so strong. This was and I don't mean this in a bad way because I've always enjoyed her, but this was the first time where I was, like, truly wowed, being totally unafraid to make herself and her character look like an absolute fool. Know just like the butt of the joke. But owning that and doing a really good job at it. Yeah, we do have some newcomers to you and I. There's a main character, Manny, played by Diego Calvo. Never heard of this guy. Never seen him. What do you think about, like, putting I mean, a third of the movie on him? Not we're not seeing a third. Like there's chapter one, two, three. It's not like that. Everyone's intermingled. Everyone kind of knows each other. And but we do get narrative tangents. Oh, yeah, he's he's smart. He's a huge part. And I just never seen him before. And I thought he was really good. I thought it was interesting to put such a huge role on an actor that not a lot of us are going to have a relationship with, unlike Brad Pitt, Margot Robbie I think that's always a good move. I do too. I think it's always a good move. He really has not been in any. He hasn't been in anything I've heard of. So we'll be it'll be interesting to see where his career goes from here. And did Chazelle intentionally want a relatively unknown against these two big Oscar nominated, Oscar winning performers? Maybe that was the point, I don't know. But I definitely thought it was a choice. Like we both said that to each other, Really? Like that was a choice to cast him in that he did well. It was cool to hear that Dan thought he was the highlight of Yeah, but yeah, there were. It's not it's not a one note performance. Like he has a lot to do in it whether he handles all of it to, you know, with equal strength will be I guess up to everyone individually as it always is. It always is. Even God has his or hers limits. Yeah. Okay. So it was 10 p.m., folks. We never caught this. They were getting a little punchy. Jean Smart. I loved her. I've always loved her. She played like a, you know, back in the twenties and thirties. These are gossip columnists. They were big deal. They can make or break you like if they wrote a scathing review of you or something, it can make or break you. And she did a really good job especially playing off Pitt like Jean Smart has had this, you know, kind of resurgence because of Hacks on HBO. It was just fun to see her, too. I love that scene as a great scene. Yeah. There her and Pitt have a scene together that is a it's when it's like one of those scenes where the movie just calms down. There's nothing else happen. But you're watching two pro actors. Yeah, and it was a lot of fun. Yeah. And the way that his exit from that, I really, really, like, loved. Oh, yeah, she drove that scene too. But yeah, yeah. The great Tobey Maguire shows up. I don't want to say too, about it, but it was just fun to see him, I guess. I guess I'll just say that. I mean, he was in. Did you see that? Spider-Man. Spider-Man? No way home. Do you ever see that? No. The most recent one had a fun here, a little fun little part in that I would have popped for that when if I saw it. He's good in it. He's going to it's like a nice little a nice little cameo, but like pawn Sacrifice in 2014, The Great Gatsby in 2013, he hasn't been in much, you know, he's doing his own thing. I'm sure he has other interests, some of which were captured in the film Molly's Game. I suppose that people could dive in too, but like his last great role, maybe, like, I don't know, but it was fun to see him here. He had a lot of fun, like relishing whatever the hell he was doing. He was in his own register. But I got it. I dug it. Yeah, I thought. I thought. I thought he did very good in this. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. As wrap up here, here's how I want to leave it. If people are listening to this and like, debating about whether to watch it, I don't even know how much longer this thing's going to be in theaters. I think it's. I think it's got to it's got to have a stretch all the way to the Oscars. It's got to try and become my God. I don't I don't know if it will make it to if it'll make it to March. But I mean, we'll see. But is it something we're we're going to hear in like two weeks it's available to rent for? No, no, no. I don't know what the fable meant to that. It was Spielberg. I don't know, man. I don't know. I don't know. We'll see. But like, I just thought this was a great theatrical experience. The movie is outrageous. I think it's a really, really good word to describe it. It is outrageous. It's not pretending to not be. But I don't I would really urge people to watch this. I hope you get to go to the theater to see it. But if not, give it the time when it comes out on streaming and don't, like quit, you know, 20 minutes in, like it's crazy, like the first 45 minutes or so are fucking nuts. Like, there is crazy. It has its rhythm, but it settles into a slower pace and slower rhythm. Intentional, intentional, Very intentionally. I also want to hammer home people see that running time. They're like, Are you kidding me? Why would I go do this? But I don't know. I thought it was fine. I got it. If you're going to see Avatar, you're going to look at the same thing. If you go, Yeah, you can do two avatars for four whole minutes longer. Yeah. Jesus. You want to rank reactions? L want to see those four. His latest four. Oh, yeah. I'm really curious for this. Like, I don't know. It's tough. Ah, What are we going to do? Start it for two, three, two and one. Or just do each in one shot since there's only four All Okay, well, I'll start with mine number four. Okay. Yeah. I'll be la la land. Okay. My number four is la la land y. Yeah. Yeah. Your favorite movie in 2016 2016 was a fucking dog. Shit. You're privilege to 2016 fucking suck. 2016 was the first year that I saw a television season that was better than any movie I saw. And that was Atlanta's season one. And I went, What has happened? I'm living in Los Angeles. I sold everything that year. Like everything. And I went, What's going on? Atlanta came out around that time and the Girlfriend Experience season one, which I thought was better than any movie, including La La Land in 2016, Atlanta Season one and then two I went, This is just better than any movie I've seen, but whatever. Yeah, I mean, sometimes we have favorite movies of the year. I do think that that is my favorite movie of that year, but I just didn't think it was good year. What was your favorite of 2016? Oh, bullshit man. I buy this hell or high water. Oh, yeah, that's right. That was my good choice. Everybody wants some, you know, 2016, it was. And it's. You know how I feel about that movie. I love that movie, too. But. But if. If I was that year for prestige cinema, maybe. Yeah, that's a better way, prestige, because I'll say that Everybody wants them is one of my favorite movies, just for Love personally. But I thought Hell or High Water was the best movie of that year. So if that makes any type of sense. No, it does. Okay. I'm looking at my top ten of 2016. What I wrote in 2016. Yeah, I gave an honorable mention to the girlfriend Experience season one saying that was better than any movie I saw here. I'll go for these. Why not? We're okay. We're having fun. Number ten, The Neon Demon. Oh, hell, yeah. Yeah. Number nine, the handmaiden. We just brought that. The number six, the lobster. No, sorry. Number eight, the lobster. I love that movie. Yes. Number seven, White girl. Another movie I really like. I watched that movie. Yeah, it's good Movie number six, Hell or high water. Number five. Everybody wants some Number four Knight of Cups ever. Three mansions to see two nocturnal animals, one la la land. It's a great year. Okay. Yes, but like those aren't necessarily prestige films. Manchester by the Sea is Ain't nobody was talking about Night. You and I both know nobody was talking about everybody want some people are kind of talking about it now but yeah I mean white girl oh my God, I wish everyone would go see White Girl. Huge influence on me and my filmmaking, but I meant in terms of prestige. Okay. Anyway, yeah. And before long we were. I was like, You're hurt. Yeah. Okay. Number three. What? Number three? Man, if I don't want it, it has to go somewhere. We're only four. First man can number three First man. Yeah, that's tough. I don't want to put it there, but like, there's only. There's like, I have to as well. I think we're going to the same exact rankings, I think. Yeah, I do. I have to put numbers. Yeah. Number three first man, I will. Only because that's the one I've seen the least outside of Babylon. Of course I've only seen it once, but I know I'll watch Babylon more and more and that's not like a dig against it, but there's just, you know. Yeah, I've only seen it twice as well. Yeah. Number two, it's Babylon. Yeah, it is. It is. It's fabulous. Having two. Yep. Yeah. Yep. And then number one is with Whiplash. Yeah, yeah, that's. I was, I was having fun with these rankings and I did it this morning and the rankings my one, two and three were just the same but Babylon I put it four because I'm like, I don't know. And you know, the reviews and stuff. And then when I was watching it, I was like, I think that's already beat la la land. Like, I don't know, I think, yeah, but it's always a thing like you got to don't shit the ending here. Yeah. Yeah. And the ending might turn some people off now because it's like abrupt it is not, not because it's ambiguous. It's not, it's nothing like that. It just might be too big of a leap for some people. But I was like, I did the goofiest smile on my face. Go, I get everything you're doing. Everything. Same here. And I was so happy to see it. Yes, so happy to see it. It was. Yeah. Because I want to talk about more about it. But. But we can. Yeah, we can. I don't want to ruin it for people. How interesting though that like this is my we brought up Nolan a little bit on this part. This is my Nolan argument that my favorite movie for him he started with like this really micro-budget thing that he took a while to film, not unlike this guy and Madeline on a bench Nolan makes following. Still my favorite Nolan movie is Memento Like it just is. I love Memento. How interesting is it that like the first you know well known movie from Chazelle is still our favorite and I mean Babylon's$80 million and Whiplash is $3.3 million. So it just goes to show like it doesn't. The money thing is, it could be fun. Babylon was a lot of fun to watch, but good story is kind of what prevails, you know? Yeah, and good technique. You have fucking whiplash. Rocks. Whiplash. Just a great movie. It's a really fun movie to recommend to people and be like, Yeah, just put it on, like, don't look up anything. And then, you know, once they watch it. They're going to send you a text or call you. Oh, well, that was a lot of fun. Oh yeah, It's a feel good movie, though. Like, well, that was really well made because it's just easy. It's not that easy. It's easy to follow. Oh, easy to follow. Yeah. I thought you mean emotionally, but what are you watching? We've arrived. We're here. Do you have anything else to say for Babylon? You know Super Babylon. Well, no, I can watch it now. What are you watching? Recommendations? Yeah, I don't know. I don't have one. Why not? Because. Oh, he's looking around. Oh, God, no, wait a minute. Wait a minute, wait a minute. You've watched. Wait a minute, wait a minute. You have so many perfect ones. Watch. One of the ones that I fucking brought up and reviewed that you hadn't seen yet that you said he wanted to see. You've seen, like, four of these, and they're all good. And you like them. Which ones? Bones and all. Triangle of sadness. Bring up Lady Gaga. I think I got the right for a minute before you did. Okay. What are you watching? I'm going to recommend a new movie. Actually, that isn't Babylon. I'm just going to talk about a new film. Do you want to go first? Would you like me to go first? I want you to go first. I'll go first time ever. I don't know if you've seen it yet. We're going to talk about it. The whale. Oh, see it? I won't. I won't say anything about it. Son of a bitch. No, I saw. I saw it was my aunt. I sold my aunt the day before you got here. She wanted to see it. Yeah, it was. It was. It was sweet. I let pick the movie. She. We tried to see, you know, as many movies as we can together. And she goes, I really want to see the whale. And I was like, You do? Okay? Like, okay. So she let me know when, where and we saw it and it was I'm not going to say anything about it. I mostly just want to kind of tease that I, I really enjoyed it. Really appreciated it. Oh, okay. Yeah. I mean, he is he's incredible. He I mean, he's just absolutely remarkable. I don't think I sadly don't think he has a chance. Really. Best actor. I really think that's going to I think Butler's just going to walk away with it. Austin Butler for Elvis, I thought I mean, maybe Colin Farrell gives him a run for his money, but the Oscars love biopics and people love Elvis. I mean, and he's very good in that. Yeah, he is like, I, I like I can't tell you how much I hated the film Bohemian Rhapsody and that performance. And I don't even hate Rami Malek. I just like the everything that went against, like, all my, like, things I like hysterically that he's lip synching. I didn't it and he won and he wins over like Bradley Cooper and a star is born like I just I didn't get it in the Austin Butler Elvis performance is way better than Rami Malek so I it bums me out at this point, having seen the film, without giving away any spoilers make up, it'll get nominated for and you'll have you'll make up an actor. I think that's it. But so did the eyes of Tammy Faye. And it won both. It won actress and makeup. So did he will have to craft a big Oscar narrative like, you know Oh, he's already on it. He is. He's he's on it. But so it's also the wheels come off. But I mean, it's it's like this guy's been around since 92. He's he's made some of us so happy. Like, I don't know if Brendan Fraser gets here again. I bet Orson Butler does fucking give it to Brendan Fraser. Colin Farrell gets here again to Colin Farrell is going to be nominated for another Oscar. I don't know if Brendan Fraser was. I knew Mickey Rourke was never going to be nominated for another Oscar after The Wrestler. That's really why I wanted him to win. Yeah, I figured Sean Penn might, but it's kind of same vibes. I wish the narrative of the Whale and Brendan Fraser was the same for Natalie Portman. Black Swan What it's like. Aronofsky Director, This ain't nobody touching her. And she just cleared the way and she was going to win that. But it's also like fucking Ellen Burstyn. Yeah, for a dream should have absolutely won. But Erin Brockovich, I'm still pulling for him. For him, I hope so. I really want to hear what you think of it, too, but I really want to see. I enjoyed it. There are things that I want to say about it to you that I don't want to say without you having seen it, but it relates to a podcast episode that we did, and I, and it would just be great to have a conversation, you know, about it. Good movie. It's um, yeah, it's an Aronofsky movie, for sure. Oh, okay. All right. It's not a mother and a mother, I'll put it that way. But it's it was very interesting to see what he did with the with that material because he didn't write it. No, he did not. Yeah. Yeah, he didn't. Yeah. So that's that's kind of critical. When he's penned his own stuff, it gets a little crazier. He didn't write The Wrestler either. So when it, when he writes, you know, pi records. Yeah. Okay. But his mother. Mother Ho boy. I rewatched Mother for the whale's. Great. All right, What's yours? All right. You have been catching up on some 20, 22 movies. I don't know if that's what you're going to bring up, but I am. I. I'm going to bring up a movie that I saw with my favorite actress. And yours. Yes. Nikki Hernandez. Oh, my God. We saw bones and all. Oh, and and you talked about this on this an episode. I said, I think the first thing I said is this movie fucking rocks. That's what I thought about it. I love the way you say, like, you're never going to see Mark Rylance like this. Was I right? Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah He was just incredible in the movie. I really, really loved it. I thought it was a very, very it had it. It did its own thing. Really did. And I was on the ride for it. I was very, very moved by the love story of it. I was too. Yeah. I thought, what they did was it was like intensely moving and so odd, which is why I was so moved by it because I thought I never really seen anything like that. And it was like, Oh, this, this is just a really odd but committed portrayal of young love. Yes. Love in general. Yeah. And and I really appreciated the way that I felt it handled addiction because it handled it in a way I've never seen before, where it wasn't a typical story about addiction in terms of the way that when people are addicted to something, it's just because they really, really want it right? This was more of like an inherited thing. Yes. And it's like, oh, no, it's not like we can just turn it off. Turn it off. Like this is a part of us. And that changes the way you go about dealing with a habit, let's say. And one of this marriage that I don't think I'm I don't think I need like, you know, high the fact that we're talking on a movie about cannibalism. But no, but it wasn't like watching a movie about like a heroin addict. Yeah, it was like watching a movie about someone with, like. Like skin disease or something. Like they can't avoid it. Like, yeah, it's a part of them. And you have to, like, treat this skin disease. I have to put this ointment on every day or else I get I blow up in rashes. It's like I have to treat this or else like, Yeah, or else. Yeah. And, and that's what I really thought was very fresh about the movie because we're living in a time now where cannibalism is like a hot topic. It is a hot topic. Don't ask me what the finance meme in. I don't know but but if 2022 people aren't going to see Babylon. But we love cannibalism. So seriously. I'm glad you got to see that theater too, because it was shot so beautifully. Like it just even that the final shot is kind of a long take and it just, Oh my God, it looks so good. So I'm so glad you got to see that in you're I'm glad you're catching up on the right to 22 movies. You said things are going to be unfortunately I don't think a big Oscar contender. I don't think so. It did so well at Spirit Awards. You know, it's like, all right, cool. That's great. But enjoy that, I suppose that's it. That was a lot of fun to have our guest commentator phone in there. He actually did way better than I thought he would. That was surprising. And he kept very true to himself. That's all very well. Yeah, that's our lunatic drug addict friend. There's so it's not a drug addict joke. What a loon. No. Is great to hear from Dan. We'll have him actually on a podcast, like a real one. At some point, we'll give him his own mic and talk about, I don't know, something. God, whatever he wants to talk about. Probably Gremlins two on probably a deep dive because that is his in my movie together. Yeah We we love that. Our tagline is every time we watch Gremlins we go we could be watching Gremlins two. It said, I love Gremlins, but gremlins two is yeah, that is a good tagline. No matter what it says, I had to go and there's a lot of fun. New movie Babylon. Go see it. Open your eyes open your hearts. It's okay. Don't listen to the critics. Don't pay attention to the box office. It's a movie that deserves to be seen. It's a love letter to movies. It was actually it was two movies. I realized that's what it was going to be. Oh, that's it. Babylon Go see it. Thanks so much for listening and happy watching. Hey, everyone. Thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my movie blog at Alex Withrow dot com Nicholas Dose Tor.com is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What are you watching Pod cast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter at w aiw underscore podcast after discussing a movie that no has seen. Next time we're going to talk about a movie that nearly everyone has seen. Avatar The Way of Water. Yep, we're going all in Avatar Big Jim. Stay tuned. Now, usually the episode ends by now, but I'm still talking. I'm going to let this music fade out. Awkward. Okay. Hi. I'm going to try something a little different here today. Dedicated listeners know this is where I will place outtakes from the episode, if we have any. And because we had a mad man call into the podcast today, we did end up talking about some Babylon's spoilers. So am going to include those here now. It's only 2 minutes long, but please know that we are going to be discussing the final 5 minutes of Babylon. It will be revealed here. We do not talk about what happens to any of the characters. We don't. But we do talk about a big swing that Damien Chazelle takes toward the end of the film. If you just listen to the Babylon episode and you heard when I bleeped out that movie Dan referenced, that movie is going to be revealed in this spoiler. Please do not yell at me for spoiling Babylon, a movie no one has seen. Go yell at Nic. Seriously, if you do not want aspects of Babylon to be spoiled, just go ahead and turn the episode off now. But if you listen, you're going to hear me laugh just as hard as I've ever laughed on this podcast because goddamn you, Dan, okay, you're going to hear Beep and it's spoiler time. Here we go. Without any spoilers. We've touched on like how big of a swing those last 5 minutes were. What did you think of that? I mean, this is probably about but like cutting to all the different movies when he's in the theater. Yeah Yeah, but I mean, they showed Avatar. I was going to say I was thinking as they were progressing, this is going to probably cut. I was like, They're probably going to fucking show Avatar. I can't believe you thought that. Honestly, when I was watching that entire scene, I just thought of the two of you drooling over it. Yeah, I was. Yeah, I mean it. Yeah, yeah. The shot it ended on. It's like bleeding celluloid, and it's like showing, like the red nitrate film. Literally what it's doing. Yeah. Yeah. The color celluloid, like film. And I'm like, Alex is jerking off with this right now. Oh, yes, the last 5 minutes. But I get what he was trying to do because that's literally to me, it was like the director is like, All right, I am the biggest film fan that I know. This is me jerking off on camera. I love film. This is how much I love film. I'm going to show it. And no going to take it out of the film because it's my film. I kind of got that energy to honestly like, Yeah, I have final cut, I'm going to do what I want. Did you feel But I mean, but again, it's like I've never seen I mean, you make like this. I've never seen some of the rain and I didn't know that that's not the joke. But the shtick was there is taken from Danny's life the whole time. Yeah, I mean, yeah, that's kind of the thing. And when, when the that saxophonists or Trump play or whatever, he's like, you should turn the cameras around that that was kind of a thing like because that's what singin in the Rain is like Turn the cameras around, focus on us and our bullshit. You catch that and probably, you know, if you cut it till yet. No, I didn't catch the end. Definitely didn't catch so. Oh no. But the first 5 minutes, the last 5 minutes were just like, just it was a culmination of like 3 hours of insanity that just kind of went away in a melody. I don't know what I'm saying. No, that's fair. That's fair.