Challengers (2024)

Alex tells Nick why Luca Guadagnino’s “Challengers” is a much better movie than its marketing suggests. The guys briefly discuss Zendaya’s Oscar prospects, Guadagnino’s filmography, Mike Faist & Josh O’Connor, an amazing score by Trent Reznor & Atticus Ross, and how the movie connects to “Past Lives.”
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Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex Withrow, and I'm joined by my best man, Nick Dunstall. How are you doing there? John McEnroe? You had to pick one. You just had to pick one. That's all you could go with. I typed in Faber, I did, I just did a mini. So it's I usually, usually the mini shows I do alone. This is a mini. It's a quick you know why. You know why? Because I'm pissed. Oh yesterday one, I got a lot of emotions going through me right now, man. I know I feel challenged. You like it? Like it? Yeah. no, I'm I'm actually very excited, and, because I really want to see this movie. Yeah. So I guess we'll just start there. You have seen it, I have not. I am a giant Sunday of fan because of Malcolm and Marie, amongst other things, but I had to get him. Malcolm and Reese shout out in there. But, I almost called you Malcolm. oh. That would have been good. That would've been great. That would've been better than what you did. Yeah. McEnroe is a god. Oh, God. So I think I even mentioned it on the podcast episode. Maybe it didn't. I saw the trailer. No. You did? Yeah you did. We did talk about this. Yes. And I felt like I got completely robbed from the challengers movie experience, so I was always going to see it. So I'm planning on seeing it just it just came out last night amidst the trailer, ruining it for me for what I thought. But now we're doing this podcast. I'm hearing a little different from you in terms of what that trailer may or may not have been. Yes. Why we're doing this is because, I mean, these mini swords. I happen to like a movie and new movie all I want to, you know, give it a little, give it a little love. This is different. This is really the first time we've done this on this podcast, where you're being a good sport and you want to see this movie. So I'm not going to spoil anything. And I'm here for one simple reason. I got to see this movie early. I we're recording this on Saturday, April 27th. I got to see it on Monday because AMC was doing a special Imax promotion, so they were showing it on some Imax screens. So I went and yes, we did talk about this film. We talked about this film's trailer and how you felt it revealed too much, and I said, oh my God, I have some insight into this because I've heard podcasters who have already seen the movie and they're saying the trailer gives everything away. I had not watch the trailer because I tried not to watch them, but I had heard it about 50 times because it is played before every single movie I've seen for the past four months. So I heard it a bunch. So challengers, I mean, I'm sitting there watching it and like, I don't know, 15 minutes in I went, oh my God, oh shit, this thing's going to be good. Yeah, this is actually going to be a good movie. This is not because I never try to bring in like bad energy, even if I'm in a bad mood personally. I'm like, okay, clean slate with the movie. And I liked it. I never stopped liking it when it was done. I really, really liked it. Here's why we're doing this podcast. Here's the issue. Every single person, with the exception of you, every single person I have recommended this to who is interested in my movie takes, who make a decision to go see a movie in the theater based off. If I tell them no one's interested in this, no one. They all think it looks terrible because of the trailer. So we are doing I'm Here to Tell you. Challengers starring Zendaya, directed by the great Luca Guadagnino, is not how the trailer makes it out to be. Basically, this is not a sex romp that that trailer insinuates. Yeah, there is, in fact, no sex scene in the film. There's some making out. There is. If you see why it's rated R, it says for graphic nudity. That's for dudes changing in a tennis locker room. That's why Zendaya is an absolute fucking star for one. And number two, she's incredibly famous. She's very polished. She is not at the point in her career where she's going to be having these wild sex romp threesomes in a movie. I knew that. I guess a lot of people assume that's not the case, that that's just not what this is. Most importantly, I'm not giving anything away here. Takes about three minutes to realize this. This movie is told in hyper nonlinear order. So that means that the things that are quote unquote spoiled or revealed in the trailer, a lot of that shit, you know, within the first five minutes in the movie. So it's not exactly. Yeah. There are things that have been withheld in this movie that are not in the trailer. I've gone back and rewatched the trailer. There's some things in the trailer that give entirely too much away, which always pisses me off. not audibly. It's things that you see and I'm like, did it not need to show that man? But it is not a film ruiner. It is. It is a, I think, a terrible trailer. I think it markets the film very poorly. Why do you want to sell a movie based on sex in this climate is ridiculous. Yeah, because no one's into the sexy movies anymore. I mean, and then come to find out that it is not actually that I think it's being poorly marketed by MGM or Amazon, whoever the hell. Yeah. It's being distributed by Amazon and Warner Brothers. I guess MGM put up the money to make it, but I really liked it, and I would be baffled if this is not in my top ten of 2024, even if it's at ten, even if it's at nine. It was so much fun and it's so much dislike, verve and juice and life. And it moves and it moves. And the mere fact that that you are kind of like trying to encourage people to not follow the way that it's been marketed is exciting to me because I was like, there's no way that after you see that trailer that you don't just feel like you've seen the movie. So this is very exciting. And I knew was about like the sex stuff. Like I did know that there was like that narrative, oh, this is the Zendaya sex movie. Like, that was that's the way you heard about this movie. That's how I feel about it. Yeah. Is that the reason? That's not the reason I wanted to see it. Like I want to see it because, like, I love this director and we're getting like a, like a different type of thing here with Zendaya and seeing where she's going in her career. And, so to kind of know that all of this is thrown out the water and now we have like a blank slate, makes me excited, even more excited to see the movie. But yes, I don't know how people are going to take to it in terms of trying to get it to make money at this point, because how long it could even stay in theaters? Yeah. We'll see. It came out yesterday. It cost 55 million. So they need they need to leave it in theaters for a little bit. Also keep in mind this movie has been in the can and was scheduled to be released in September 2023. When the strikes happen, the sag after strikes, they withheld it as they did with some movies. So now it's coming out. I think with the September 2023, a lot of people thought Oscar prospects and their best actress. Maybe now you put it in, you know, the block where it is not the most Oscar friendly release. Did I say that? Noting that Everything Everywhere was released in April. It cleared so it doesn't. If a movie's good and if it has staying power and people are talking about it, it could still be mentioned come Oscar time. Noting that I really, really liked it. I didn't really see any specific Oscar prospects, to be honest. maybe some below the line on some technical categories. I don't know if she's getting, like, an Oscar worthy performance. She's remarkable in it. She is a very flawed character. She's you were seeing her for like 13 years and. Oh, don't don't say too much telling you, man. All this stuff is like in the first five minutes. I'm telling you, I'm telling you, this movie is way more of like a Jules and Jim love triangle type than some sex romp. It's the sexuality of some of the characters can be a little fluid, it just. But as our three leads, we have Zendaya, who we both love. We loved her and Malcolm and Marie loved her. In euphoria, she this is one of one, if not her best performance yet. She is so good. She takes this character through all the motions. I really, really enjoyed her so much. Confidence, poise. She I just she's really one of the best we have right now. And I love this that she just seemingly can do no wrong in her talents. Yeah. That's so exciting. Yeah. Oh my God, I can't wait. Mike Feist is one of the guys. I had only seen him as riff in Steven Spielberg's West Side Story. Not really a film for me. I loved him in this movie. He's really good. I'm not really going to say the roles that they play. The other guy was Josh O'Connor. I had never seen him before. I guess he's very famous for playing Prince Charles in The Crown, never seen an episode of it, so didn't have a relationship with it. He's kind of a sleaze year one, and I really, really liked him. I liked everyone of that. I thought everyone embodied their roles very well because the movie is told out of order. The first time we met Mike Feist, I was like, oh man, this is going to be a tough row to hoe. I do not like this guy's doing. I just don't like it. And then two scenes later I'm like, oh, that's yeah, that that was all intentional. All right. Shit, shit. He's good. Yeah. All right, I like it, I like it. The film is directed by Luca Guadagnino. if you don't know his name, you've likely heard of some of his movies. I Am Love with Tilda Swinton is one of the first. Is the first movie by him that I saw A Bigger Splash. I still haven't seen that, too, says Tilda Swinton, Dakota Johnson, Ralph Fiennes I haven't seen it. I really that's like the big one that I need to see, and I hear it's really good. Maybe I'll watch that later. Probably. His most famous is Call Me By Your Name. Yeah, in 2017. A lot of people love that. He did Suspiria, my favorite Luca film, 2018 I love Suspiria. his latest movie was Bones and All Bones, and also Timmy, Timmy and Taylor. Oh, Timmy. His next film, apparently to be released later this year, is called queer, starring Daniel Craig. And that film, queer, is written by Justin Kurz. Kit's, who also wrote challengers. Sorry, I'm getting the last name wrong. I know this screenwriter challengers is his first script. You'll love this. This guy Justin, is married to Celine Song, who wrote and directed Past Lives. To put it another way, this guy is the man who inspired the white guy in past lives. Yes. Really? Yes, yes. Oh, yep. And that. Cool. That's, Wow. All right. Everyone knows me. Love that. Yeah. It's not great. Isn't that great? Everyone knows me with the names I, this cinematographer, they, Boo muck diem from, I'm sorry I it it's it's really long. It's really tough. He's film call me by your name Suspiria 13 lives foreign. Howard. Oh. Cinematography of challengers is. It's really something. It's a lot of fun. Don't to give too much away, but the POV of the camera adopts a lot of different things. You know, you're, I think some thing I think some has been made negatively about how they're CGI in the ten scenes I didn't notice, didn't care. I assume that these people are not this good at tennis. Yeah, but what they show us, the cutting is very it's just fun. It's fun to watch. I don't, you know, I know like how the scoring and tennis works, but you don't have to be an expert on the game. No noticeable CGI to me in a way that was like distracting and bad. So the cinematography is a lot of fun. I'll be. I'm doing this little mini sode. I have no idea how people are liking this movie. None. I know that it's getting good reviews. I loved my letter box review and it was doing well on there, but I'm like, I don't know how the masses are doing with it. My screening was sold out. Going to talk a little bit about my screening at the end here. main selling point for me, aside from Zendaya, who's just a national treasure. Shortly when the movie starts, like three minutes in, this techno music starts and I'm like, wow. So they've I don't know who all these people are. All these songs are the movie ends. All the music is by Trent Reznor and Atticus Ross. Oh my god. And this is some of I need to look at this a little bit more, but this might be my second favorite score of theirs after Social Network. It is available now on Spotify. Apple Music I have listened to it several times working out. That's the kind of score it is, and it is. I mean, it just hits. It's so, so good. And the music is used often at times when you're like, oh, now you're missing it and loved it. I'm not going to say too much, but all these choices, you're just gonna be like, I mean, Luca is one of the directors who can dip a little bit toward, like, look what I can do. Pretension on purpose, not unlike Gas Bar, in a way, and be like, look at this. I'm just going to do it because I think it's funny. Yeah. And he does it a few times in the movie, and I appreciate that. I like that I really enjoyed this movie. If you're not interested in the trailer, I promise this film is not its trailer. Here's my main selling point to the movie, and it's pretty much the only selling point I think I need. I saw this at an AMC and an Imax theater on Monday, and it was about 25 minutes left in, like, the film goes like harshly out of focus, and everyone in the theater thinks this is just a creative choice of the director. And about three minutes later we realize, oh, the projector, it's gone out of focus. This is this is like ruined and just stops movie stops. So, you know, Groans. It's a Monday night. The movie started at seven. Had about 15, 20 minutes of previews. So now it's about nine. We all know it's about 25 minutes left. If the movie was bad, someone would have left because it was sold out. Yeah, no one left. A few of us, myself included, went to the bathroom, went to maybe get drink refills. I kind of told the manager what was up or you know, they were working on it took like 25 minutes for them to get working and no one left. Wow. The people who left to use the bathroom came back and I went by myself, but I kind of got into a conversation with the group next to me about like, what do you think's going to happen? Because it was setting stuff up and there's a city that becomes like a, McGuffin a little bit. So we were like, what's going to happen in blink? We were all interested. And then it was when it was done, we all kind of like hung out in the lobby and talked because we had like met, you know, a lot of people had done that. So not an ideal way to see a movie, of course, to have it cut off. And but they were able to pick back up. They actually gave us like a five minute buffer. So they were like, I don't know, we were able to rewind or something. So we were able to kind of like ease back into it and love the way it ended. And, you know, good movie. Just go see it. I liked a lot. Highly recommend seeing in the theater for the the fun and the bombast of the music and the, at times experimental cinematography. The fun cinematography. Yeah. And then hell yeah, it's a good movie. I'm recommending it. I think it's going to stay around for a while. When it comes to streaming, the kids, I don't think are necessarily going to the movies that much, but she's very, very popular, and I think a lot of people who didn't go to the theater going to wonder what kind of sexiness they're in for a shoot up on streaming. It's not that it is. No, no, no, no, let me be clear. It is a sexy movie. It is a sexy movie. It is. It is in the way it's shot and the way it is performed. It's a sexy movie, but it is not a sex movie. And there is there there's a big, big difference. So yeah, that's all. I really liked it. That's it. And I hope I didn't want to spoil anything for you, so I hope I didn't know. I feel good and I feel even more amped to see it. I'm fucking ready. Yeah I want I just want people to go check it out. Don't believe the trailer. I've never felt like I've had to do this. Like, come on. The this is a big movie. Like, they're putting a lot of their weight behind it. Oh yeah. And after talking with my dad, after talking with Kat, who I love, who did the succession podcast with me, said she thought the film looked like garbage, my dad didn't think it looked good. And I'm like, no, no, you you people specifically would like it. Yeah, I think Taylor wanted to see it because he likes tennis. Best tennis movie ever made. That's the best tennis movie I know. It's a lot of some tough competition there, but yeah. Best tennis movie ever made. My favorite lucasfilms are not the ones that are everyone else's favorite. So just I'll just say that Suspiria is my favorite and bones and all I love those are like, yeah, hardcore and violent. This is, you know, he can have a little it's a different vibe. It's just a whole different thing. It's a different vibe. Yeah, yeah. Go see it people. That's it. Challenges. Hell yeah I want I'm going to see it again. I will see it again. Feel good. I feel fucking great. Feel great. I am interested to see the prospects of this box office wise. I think critically it's doing okay. Oscars, I don't know. I did not see it with that understanding. I don't if it's I mean cinematography score. Sure. Editing, sure. Maybe. But if if we get to December and Zendaya's name isn't being talked about anymore, that's not a slight against her in any way. It's just I don't know if it's actually an Oscar movie. Bones and all. Suspiria. These are not Oscar movies. He's only made one. That was an Oscar movie. Call Me by Your Name. That's. I don't really think he goes for, like, the Oscar vibe. So that's all. Do you see the movie? Let me know what you think. Let us know what you think, Nick, when you see it. Let me know what you think. Tweet me. Yeah at wri w underscore podcast and on Instagram just hit 600 followers on Instagram. Awesome. Thank you everybody. Well my letter box fam thank you all. That was underscore podcast. But as always thanks for listening and happy watching. Hey everyone. Thanks again for listening. You can watch my films and read my Ruby blog at Alex withrow.com. Nicholas dose.com is where you can find all of Nick's film work. Send us mailbag questions at What Are You Watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and Letter box at w AUI underscore podcast. Next comes our commentary on The Thin Red line. We love this movie. I am obsessed with this movie and we had a ton to say about it. Stay tuned. Do do do do do do do do do do do. Do.