163: Steven Soderbergh

To celebrate five years of What Are You Watching, Alex and Nick discuss the most influential director of Alex’s life, Steven Soderbergh. Thirty-five movies, (at least) five career phases, a Palme d’Or, an Oscar, and an unparalleled work ethic all make Soderbergh an icon of modern cinema. Let’s go!

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Transcript

0:09

No one else would ever want to play this part. You are Hitler. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Remember that movie Iris that everyone has seen so many times? We love that film. I mean, come on, people. Clearly, whoever is offended by drinking blood has never drank blood. Oh. He dies. Oh. He died. Yes. I fucking told you that in person. There's a creaminess in the orange sherbet of, like, the look of the movie, not sherbet. It's core. God damn it, no one looks like fucking black sherbet. That's the orange of the movie. Tell them I'm fucking coming. Hey. Hey! I don't turn the chairs I put on the tables. Try to find the key to 50 million people. They call me the seeker. I've been set, you know, up. I don't get to give while master till the day I die. You inspire me till the I ask the people. Wait a long time. Hey, everyone. Welcome to. What are you watching? I'm Alex Swift. Throw it up. Joined by my best man, Nick, though. So how are you doing there, Terry Valentine? Yes. Oh, I got a good one. You. I know what you said. It's about fucking time. It's about fucking. You know who that is? Yeah. Oh, Terry Valentine, that's, That's fucking up. Peter Fonda. Boom. Yeah. Limey fucks the limey. Yes. I was going to give you something, smartass, but I figured, you know, we're here for big one today. Oh, it's a big one. And for a number of reasons, my friend. Why you want to tell us a reason? Do you do? Well, do you want me to be the one? Sure. Go for it. Say it. Go for it. It is happy five years Sighs the podcast. Years. Yeah. Our first ever episode we recorded in February 2020, but it was released in July 2020. And that was the very beginning of what are you watching? Go back to go back and was episode one. Folks sound like a bunch of like babies? Oh my God, so timid, so nervous I love it. It's just so serious. Yeah. Very like very serious. Didn't clearly did not know what tone we were going to go for. But the passion is there. You can still hear it is our two guys who love movies were two guys who are friends. Yeah, I mean, and we've come a very long way. Yeah. Quickly. Like this. It doesn't seem like five years to me. It's like, my God, we've been rocking and rolling at this and never, never really stopped until, you know, kind of stopped or slowed down. I should say. We've never slowed down even until, like, very recently when we agreed that it doesn't. We don't have to be rigid with like, the every single two weeks, every other Thursday thing. It's okay to dislike, you know, live our lives a little bit, let stuff breathe. But yeah, happy five years. It's insane. Happy five years, baby. Oh, yeah. Here we are. I, I just want you to know as Terry Valentine. Listen, I don't freak out anymore. I freak out, man. So I don't freak, okay? I that was, I guess a little behind the scenes confession is that that was my last Steven Soderbergh movie. I put it on pretty much right before we recorded this. Of course, I've seen it a gazillion times. I already watch it with the commentary on yet again for this episode, but I went and it's only 90 minutes long. Let me do it. And wow, do I love that film. Oh my God, it's so good. It's so good. The limey 4K looks amazing. We are here today. I mean, there's really no better fit for a five year anniversary than to talk about. No, the most influential director of my life in terms of my own filmmaking, there is no question the do it yourself mentality of, okay, I can't afford a cinematographer find one or an editor or find one, so I'm just going to do it myself. We are here today to talk about the great Steven Soderbergh, and I could not be happier. And I really want to kind of jump in here and just clarify, because I think, you know, to all the to all of our mad movie buffs that have been following us for a long time, we've made these type of statements before where this is the most influential director, this is our favorite director, this is this. But I just want to really emphasize that for you, Alex, specifically in terms of the way that you go about treating your film work, this is that director and you have been studying the career of Steven Soderbergh, and his work shows up in your work more than any other director. So I just really want to point out one, when you say that to all of our fans listening, that this is the guy that taught you how to do this, really, I there's that fair to say. It's absolutely fair. All of that is true. And all of that is correct. And I'm gonna well, I mean, who knows how long this is going to go today? I have a lot to say, and I have very few notes written down because this is all just baked in. And one of the like, I really do consider him a teacher because he used to be so dedicated with his film commentaries, and his film commentaries are still if someone's like, who's the number one? Who's the best? I say him without question every time. And as we will get to as his career progressed and as he had less and less to do with Hollywood and even abandoned the entire industry at one point. Since that time, he has not cared about Blu-ray or 4K releases. He there's they're very slim on special features. So it it's been such an education for the first time really ever that we've done a director's post. Director's pod. I challenge myself to watch all of his movies. He has 35 feature films. Steven Soderbergh does 35. I watch them all in chronological order. It was a lot of fun, and the thing that I saw most, because I own almost all of his, any movie of his, it's available on physical media I own, and I'm watching them all in order, listening to commentaries, and then it just boom, it drops off and there's nothing so thankfully I was of it was a coming of age time for me. My, when I was taking it all in and like sponging all this information up. So yes, he's the one that taught me what a master shot is. Just from commentaries like I. If there's one thing that translates from his film work over to me on a daily basis, it is absolutely his editing style, which I steal from all the time in my own work. But I am also a post-production specialist slash editor in my day job, so I steal from it all the time. I've been watching all of his movies while still, you know, having my day job. And I'm just like watching his movies at night, going into work and cutting about, like, trying to shit that he's tried and the way that he's been so open about his own influences. So that gave me this whole insight into the 60s and 70s cinema. It's just, yeah, he's an excellent teacher. And, my, I just have to say, my favorite living director I love this is not going to be, an episode today where I'm like, yeah, this one was okay. Like, I love almost every movie he's made. I love his style, I just do. It's in the way he makes movies is in the DNA of my blood. I adore all of his films, including the two he has already released this year. I love this guy. It really is like I've coming from the way that I treated this was, I actually went the opposite way because I've seen so much of his work over the years, so I'm very familiar with him. But I went backwards. I went from this new era of Steven Soderbergh, his, you know, more or less like fuck it mode. Oh yeah. To then coming into all of his early work. And I really do have to say there is I felt a difference, not in terms of craftsmanship, not in in terms of technique, quality. It's not like these movies are not as good as these old ones. But there is a very real I picked up a, personalized, expression that is not coming through anymore. Yeah, I do feel that in that early work, there's something that you can feel the director behind the camera, behind the writing, behind everything, saying this matters to me, and I'm putting that into the work. And it's not that they don't. This is why it's a very weird thing to kind of express, because it's not like I feel like he he doesn't care. But there is a removal of something. There is a personalization that I feel is not there. Even though these movies are like fantastic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's that's totally fair. And there's he's not getting nominated for Best Director anymore. You know, he's, he has the same statistic for best director where he got nominated twice in one year for Erin Brockovich and Traffic, and that had not happened since 1938. That doesn't happen like that's insane. And that director Michael Curtiz, who went on to win an Oscar for Casablanca, but he did not win that year. Soderbergh won that year for traffic. The change came to me in that early in his career, once he hit his stride, you can I can match like, oh, he's trying to do this 60 style film or this 70s style film like The Limey is his, I don't know, point blank from the 60s or traffic is his. You know, they were looking at a bunch of things which I've talked about, Battle of Algiers, even you can see. So it's not that they're these overt statements of some people might disagree. Maybe he was getting a little too like message, I don't know. And trying to be a little sentimental at times. And then after he said, fuck you to Hollywood. And when he came back, he has been very open that he is not. This is his line that he says over and over, I do not make films anymore. I have not made a film since che part two. I make movies, I make things about action that are meant to entertain and or pass the time by. That's it. I am not trying to win awards. I'm not going for emotion. I don't care about emotion. And that's the person we get. And that's why he's able to deliver more or less a movie a year and maybe throw in a TV show for good measure. But that's why there's this lack of preciousness to with the. But that's been the case from the beginning, this lack of preciousness that has led him just run and go and go. And thank God he didn't retire. Thank God he came back. Oh, yeah. Honestly, stronger than ever. But on his own terms. He does not go. He doesn't listen to the studios anymore. He has to work out very specific deals in order to make movies. And we'll get to all that, like the chronology of everything that that is a, to just say as an artist to make that kind of declarative statement for yourself of being like, listen, I gave you every bit of my soul. He did. And now, I'm going to give you good shit. Yeah, but, but you're not going to get that from me anymore. Like, this is like, everything from here is going to be an exercise in, like, as he says, form. Yeah. And genre and and it's and it's in lies all of this genre work that he does do where there's just masterful stuff happening. Oh my god. And you can see the homages to certain things. There's and there's things that he's always done in his career that pop up in all of his movies where you're like, just no one does this better. Exactly. Yeah. And that's true. It's it's he is a very, very fascinating person to watch in his career with. And I'm very excited to jump into this. So that way that I feel like the knowledge that I'm going to get from you as we go is going to be like, I'm going to be a fan today. Well, here we go. Because, yeah, I love him. So I want to start with before we get into the filmography, I just want to start with some general rules that Soderbergh sets up for himself. We don't have to cite examples here, but as we go, I want us and everyone else to keep these in mind. So these are just some general rules that he has. He always films with two cameras. He always plans reshoots at the very end of the shoot. So nothing is precious. He may not like something. For whatever reason, you will completely redo it. All the actors know this going in. He may even shoot a scene in a different location. But moreover, here's a really fun rule he has for himself for all movies in general. In the first three shots of your movie, you should be able to communicate to the audience what kind of movie it is. This is certainly not true of every movie, but go rewatch any Soderbergh film with this rule in mind. It almost always pays off. Always. He is always doing something really cool or simple, because maybe that's what he's trying to push forward with those three shots. Even if they're just establishing shots like that, it's very, very deliberate. Another rule you should not be able to watch a movie with your eyes closed. You should not be. It should not all be talking, talking, talking, exposition, exposition. He and almost every single one of his movies has long passages where no one's saying anything, and it's montage and it's music playing, and you have to watch. He wants you to be engaged with every single aspect of the film. Another rule, he is much more interested in what characters are doing as opposed to what they are thinking. He only cares about action. He does not care about emotion. Trust me. This. Of course you're going to find some standout scenes of like characters crying and like talking to each other, but that is the exception. That is not the rule. The rule is action, action, action. Propel the story forward. That's it. It's it seems to me that going forward with that last rule in particular, that makes a lot of sense, because I don't think I've ever actually heard of that rule from him. But I also notice that it also seems depending on the actor. Oh yeah, like the actor might bring all of that to the table, but instead he might be like, cool, that's great that you're doing all that. It's not necessary for my purposes, but if that's what you want to bring to the table, then because there are some actors in his movies that are like, really going for it. Oh, big time. And and it does not feel out of place. It doesn't feel like they're in a different movie. It doesn't feel like they're like, going into business for themselves. Right? That's just how they are feeling about what they're bringing to the table. So that that's a very interesting thing, that he is not overly concerned with that. Yeah. And he, as we've talked about a lot in this podcast, typically shoots and edits his own movies under pseudonyms. Yeah. And because of that, he tends to know what he wants while he's shooting. So you're going to get one, two, maybe three takes. That's it. He and David Fincher are very good friends in real life. They have polar opposite shooting styles. Soderbergh has always been well, they both have embraced digital technology, to be fair. But Soderbergh, like the set before the Red was even released, the Red camera they were using, a prototype just built fresh off the assembly line. Not even the assembly line, like probably fresh with the, you know, engineers done putting in the last screw for che. And that's so he's always, always embraced that. Shoot a movie on an iPhone. Sure. I'll give it a shot. I don't give a shit. We're about we're over the 15 mark. So we got 35 films to get, and we got a lot through here and some fun stuff at the end. Okay, everybody, here we go. Let's go. We're going to spend a half hour on each movie. No. Defer. He has one of the craziest early success stories in the history of modern Hollywood. This is a kid who grew up with no film connections. He lived as far outside of the industry as you could, first in Atlanta, where he was born in the mid 60s, then to Charlottesville, Virginia, then primarily in Baton Rouge. And he starts making super eight videos. His father is a teacher. He writes a screenplay in his early 20s, and about eight days he makes that film. And in May 1989, at the age of 26, Steven Soderbergh became the youngest solo director to ever win the Palme d'Or at Cannes for his first ever movie, Sex, lies and videotape. That is a stat that is damn near unheard of, especially for an American filmmaker. And it's just a crazy way for the world to be introduced to Steven Soderbergh. 1989 is when the movie comes out. It's insane. And also really good movie. I mean, it's important to talk about that, like it's it's a fantastic film that is very daring. And he wrote it it we're going to he doesn't continue to write stuff, but he wrote it went on to get nominated for Best screenplay. Didn't win. But yeah, but we've never ever talked about this film. So what did you think of Steven Soderbergh's debut feature, sex, lies and videotape? What a title. So I know, great title and and also absolutely on point for everything that that movie is. That's exactly what that movie about. So this is crazy. I've never seen it. You told me that when I was visiting earlier this year, and I didn't make a thing of it because I wanted to save it for this, but I was like, oh, wow. Okay, okay. And this is one of those sacrilegious movies that I had never seen, because. Not like that, that that weird, that fun B horror movie you've talked about from being. But, the from the, personnel. I'm gonna have to believe that a total bleep. Sorry, but being the indie guy that I am, this is one of those movies that came around that, and especially for 1989, kind of really brought in a what could be one of the opening doors to be kicked in for the independent surge of the early 90s. It's him, spike Lee, Jim Jarmusch. They're all right here at the same time. Yes. And so I knew all of that. This was the lore of this movie that I knew of. So when I finally sat down, just literally like within the last two weeks and I was like, I'm excited for this. This is going to be this is going to be such a treat, brother. I cannot tell you how much I loved this movie. Damn right. This is, this is some of the best screenwriting I can actually remember in a long time. This is down to being on the level of a playwright. Level of dialog, characterization, revealing, being honest. There's a level of love that he has for every single character where even when they're doing the wrong things, I can still understand them as humans, it would be very, very easy to write off, Peter Gallagher's character. And you're just this complete dick. And don't kid had a husband. Yeah, he's a shithead husband. But damn it, if there weren't some parts of him there, I'm like, man, like this guy just, you know, his mistake is he should have just never gotten married. He's just not that guy. And now he's living in a world where he's made a choice. That was the wrong choice for him. And all I'm saying is, is that some of the writing that was going on in this movie, and then the way that the actors played it out, Andy McDowell oh my God, it might be for Mormons. Yeah, yeah. 1,000%. Yeah. I she colors every moment that she is on that screen, whether it's what she says or the way she's thinking about what's going on. She's always staying busy. She's always in in activities hurt, her mind is moving. And then when she says her words, they're just some of the most, like, honest and just like, shocking at times. This movie's this. This is this is a Nick docile movie. 1,000% of the way. I'm so glad to hear this. Yeah. There's 35 movies I'm not going to be able to, like, give a specific plot description for all of them. But yeah, this is basically like a four top. You know, it really could be a play. It could be like a four person play. Yeah. You have Andie MacDowell and Peter Gallagher are married and, you know, how's it going? Watch the movie and you'll discover. But not everything is perfect. Andie MacDowell has a sister, Cynthia. Laura San Giacomo, I think, is how you say her real name. And she is just a spitfire and causes problems in, you know, for her sister and in the marriage. Peter Gallagher's old buddy Graham, played by a very young and shy and sexy James Spader, comes into town for a period of time and disrupts things a little bit. Maybe not at any fault, not intentionally, but it's just there's a disruption between the four of these people and written and directed by Steven Soderbergh, which is not something you'll hear often because he writing as he says, is what would led to his downfall. Because we're about to talk about a handful of movies that very few people have seen. James Spader's character. I was continuously thrown with every bit of things that we were learning about him, and in the way that he leaves judgment free for the exactly and the characters to find it's something that you do not see in movies anymore, like I was. That's what the biggest thing for me was. I was like, man, why do we not get this level of humanity anymore? Like, this is just these are just for people who are just dealing with whatever they are. But the way that they're talking about it, in the way they're dealing with it, right or wrong, it's real and it's human. Why can no one fucking make a movie like this anymore? Like what? What has fucking happened? Including Steven Soderbergh? He would never, ever, ever make a movie like this because it. Yeah, his career speaks the truth. People don't give a shit anymore, by and large. Yeah. If we're looking at his career, judging by his career, people in studios don't give a shit about anymore. But I'm so glad you liked it. I'm so glad, loved, loved, loved it. So the next three movies I'm going to go through kind of quickly because this is part of the Steven Soderbergh law. He that's a huge success. 1989 first movie, youngest solo Palme d'Or winner ever. Like, what the hell? Then his next movie is 1991. He makes a movie called Kafka based, kind of off Franz Kafka. And, you know, it's very abstract. It's it's weird, but it's just not that good. Like, it's just not I I've seen it twice. I saw it when I first watched all of his films ages ago, and then I rewatched it for this and I'm like, yeah, it does. It does some really interesting things in it, but it's not not enough to carry you through all the way in and it only 98 minutes. You're like just kind of a slog. Most interestingly, he got the rights back. Soderbergh did, and he completely recut this and it's called Mr. F, K and FS, and he's been talking about wanting to release it on a box set with both versions for years. But since 2021, this new version has only played at a few film festivals and at very select screenings that Soderbergh hosts himself. I haven't seen it. So hey, if this is like criterion, hello, this is what I'm talking about. He he. If Steven Soderbergh cannot find, Blu ray 4K distributor and I'll even throw criterion criterion into that to release this, then what the hell is going on? Because I would preorder this like, I, I'm the biggest Soderbergh fan and this thing still doesn't exist. It's baffling. But yeah, a true like, you know, bomb of a movie when it was released came and went. Nah, I know a bummer because it's well-intentioned. It's a well-intentioned, like weird movie, not unlike, Brazil by Terry Gilliam or something like that early, like Naked Lunch by Cronenberg. Those are two things I think he was, you know, kind of going for Brazil in particular. So next is King of the Hill, not the cartoon King of the Hill, man, 1993. This is based on a memoir by writer A.E. Hotchner. The film, it's set during the Great Depression, takes place mostly in a hotel in Saint Louis. It looks great. It's again very well intentioned. Jesse Bradford is the cute kid. Kind of a mentor to him. Is a very young Adrien Brody. You're like, okay, like it's well shot. It's not bad. Soderbergh again wrote the screenplay, but it just no one cared. No one saw it. It came and went very quickly. Now, what it does have, because I bought this criteria and this is this does have a criterion. It has a really trippy dream sequence. It's like 90s. And if you watch it, you go, that's what Soderbergh is going to become. And there is a awesome, like ten minute long, breakdown visual essay breakdown of how they how he edited that scene on the criterion. So again, there's always something that's worth it. Like Kafka out of nowhere, it sometimes dips from black and white to color and you're like, oh shit, I didn't expect that. So there's always something. But again, very little scene. King of the Hill 1993. And that would be something that would become a staple in Soderbergh's work. Right? His color palettes just. Yes. I mean, the way that he plays with the picture is just unlike anyone I've ever seen. Yeah. So then next 1995 is the I mean, this is the I think Steven Soderbergh hates the underneath more than I hate any movie. Like, seriously, he hates this movie so much. It is the nadir of his career. He still shits on it it any chance that he can. It is. And the thing is, like, it ain't that bad. It's an armored car robbery movie with Peter Gallagher plays the lead. William Fichtner is the main heavy and has crazy, color visuals. Like he's going really nuts with like the neons, the blues, reds, greens. I, you know, it's told out of order. So again, you can see things in it where if you're obsessed with Soderbergh's whole career like I am, when you see the underneath, you're like, all right, I see. I see the genesis of things. I see ideas taking place. Jordan Baker is in it, a 70s actor I love so there are things in it, but he hates it. No one saw this movie. It just came and went. This movie, The Underneath, is available as a special feature on the King of the Hill criterion. That's how much this dude, this movie's like. I'm going to make it a fucking special feature on this disc. And you're like, oh my. So in every commentary in this era, sex, lies, videotape, and a few movies are going to talk about coming up. He just shits on the underneath constantly. So he has had great success and three major misfires, perhaps well-intentioned but just absolute duds. And he had a he wrote sex, lies, and he wrote King of the Hill, and he had a hand in writing The underneath. And it's just none of it's working. And he thinks his career is done. So he decides to burn it all down and make a movie entirely on his own. He's going to write, direct it. He's going to star in it. The somewhat reclusive and the. Absolutely. I don't like talking about myself. Steven Soderbergh stars in one of the best films he will ever make. The brilliant absurdity of 1996 is skits opolis, which he indeed made as what could have been his final film. Hey, I had a fun little experiment a decade less than a decade in filmmaking, audio skits. Hopeless. And we both love this film. Ladies and gentlemen, young and old, this may seem an unusual procedure speaking to you before the picture begins, but we have an unusual subject. Turn. When I say that this is the most important motion picture you will ever attend, my motivation is not financial gain, but a firm belief that the delicate fabric that holds all of us together will be ripped apart. Unless every man, woman and child in this country sees this film and pays full ticket price, not some bargain matinee cut braid deal, turn. In the event that you find certain sequences or ideas confusing, please bear in mind that this is your fault, not ours. You will need to see the picture again and again until you understand everything. Turn. In closing, I want to assure you that no expense was incurred bringing this motion picture to your theater. And now filmed in its entirety and proven to heal minor cuts and abrasions we proudly present gets Opolis. This is unlike anything I've ever seen. I don't you'll never see anything like it. No one now I can't recall. We were. We were doing the pod when I first saw this movie. But I don't believe this was a recommendation from you. I think I had talked about it in passing, but I because I know it came up before Bardo because I remember we talked about tickets ups a lot. Oh, the Bardo because Bartos very obviously absurd and, but I had been bringing it up and I know I told you about it and you're like I have to fucking like what is this. And it's always on the Criterion Channel. Like it's always there. And I own the criterion and which is just so good. So I said, just fired up one day like it's short and I that's my selling point. You will never seen anything like this. The opening scene. You're going to be on board or not when Steven Soderbergh herself is addressing you and saying the movie you're about to watch is the greatest movie ever made, and you're like, yep, bad. The the I mean, I really do love because like, the like, even in sex, lies and videotape and this and then there's another movie coming up where where you really get his humor. Oh, yeah. Yeah. There there is, and all these actors. Matt Damon is an amazing person to listen to. Talk about Steven Soderbergh, like when he's telling stories about Steven because Matt is always like, you have to understand, the thing about Steven is that Steven will come off as the most serious person that you will ever meet. When you talk to him. He's not joking. He's not like it. Very rarely do you ever even get humor from him. And then he'll say something and you're just like, what the hell? You listen to his commentaries, folks. He's full of this, and this is it. I die laughing every time. Yeah, you. You're a spot on. And it's just it's wild because this movie is comedy that you do not see. I'm not even talking about, like, that farcical naked gun or airplane, that type of over-the-top humor. I'm not talking about, like, comedy of manners, comedy of errors. There's scenes in here where they're not even speaking any known real language. Well, they're going generic greeting, generic greeting. Return. Yeah. And doing that thing. Hello. And they're just literally speaking what's in their mind. Not the whole time, but for a lot of it. And then sound effects, they're saying sound effects. In the middle of conversations and it and like there is sort of a plot. Not really. There's threads but it is there's threads, but there this is one of the most enjoyable experiences I've ever had watching a movie, because you just don't see anything like this, ever. It's it's, it's it's really something to behold. And when you look at the career of Steven Soderbergh, to know that this was something that he wrote, directed, shot and acted in gives you just a sense of who this guy is in a in a world where you'd never expect anything like it. It's, shockingly awesome. Yeah. It's like, you know, he Soderbergh plays like he has a doppelganger. He plays a guy who. Well, no. Okay. Yeah, I can't even I can't do it, man. I can't fry it. He's like an office worker. Who? It's about the random encounters we have in life. But just, you know, how his his marriage isn't really going that well. So, like, Soderbergh cast his very recent ex-wife to play it, and she's like, Steven, it's. He did it like that. Ex-wife. You'll see some familiar faces, like the the. Yeah, the shitheads that hit on Jennifer Lopez and out of Sight. They're all in this, Livingston Doe from the Ocean's movies. Eddie Jameson, he's in there. So you'll see some, like, people he's used again. But, yeah, this was a real, do it yourself, like, shot for $250,000. There's no studio involved anywhere. He's shooting it in around Baton Rouge. And he said he had to cast himself because he couldn't ask any actor to do this. Like they would decide that he would get an idea to shoot something on one day, and then he would just go do it. So it is, you know, if what we're describing does it make a lot of sense? That really is the point. But it is still very, very funny. And it is a perfectly perfect encapsulation of Soderbergh's humor. And this fuck it all mentality of, okay, like I did achieve success early on, and if this is if my career is to be done, this is what I have to offer. Here you go. You haven't liked the last three things I've done. Here's this thing. Is it I, you know, whatever. And I love it. And somehow I don't know if it worked, but, you know, it played a column, but it definitely it didn't hurt his career. I'll put it that way. Yeah. Not at all. When you might think you're throwing like, you know, you're torpedoing your own career. That's not what happened. Well, and you really do. And this is what I mean by that personalized, touch that he has, like, in sex, lies and videotape, you can tell this is what's going on in his life. These are the maybe not everything, but in his mind, these are the questions that are keeping him up at night. And he's exploring this. Yeah. In his opolis you very much feel a guy who's got a chip on his shoulder that believes in himself, has value, but feels that, everyone says fuck you to you. Yeah. And so he is literally throwing this out there. But there's genius here. There is, there is in this absurd comedy that doesn't make any sense at all. But at the same time, I bet you anyone who's never seen this and you watch it, you might not understand what you're watching, but you're going to be like, I get what he's doing. And this is wild. Yeah, you feel it. You feel his angst and his frustration. And this is the way that he's chose to express it. And that's an artist. Everyone. That's exactly what that is. And he has said no one saw this movie, but a few key people who kind of needed to see it did, like directors like this movie. They do. I that's how I heard about it. I heard directors referencing it, you know, so people were interested in it. So 1996, I don't know, puts his hands in the air what's going to happen? He's fleet. He's using his connections he's made in the industry. Barry Sonnenfeld was set up to direct a hot script for a movie called Out of Sight. He steps aside to do something else, and Steven Soderbergh is goes after it and says, you know, I think I know how to do this. And I if you give me this chance, truly out of sight. And I should have explains from the beginning, Steven Soderbergh's career is in five phases and with skits opolis we are ending phase one, which is I'm starting out. I hit it big and now my career cannot find footing skits. Hopeless ends phase one. He is given out of sight and he absolutely seizes it. He brings a complete lack of convention into what should maybe be a conventional Universal Pictures summer studio crime thriller, and messes it all up with it, with the radical editing. And you're like, Yeah, he cast two people. This is the big thing that you know, people knew about 1998, but you may not know now, George Clooney is not a star yet. He is trying and it is not working. That's the dude on TV. Why the hell am I going to pay to go to a theater to see a guy that I see every Thursday? This is how people used to think about TV stars. He's trying. He's really getting there. Jennifer Lopez yeah, sure she did. She did that Selena movie, but she's a singer. And like, how hard could that be? That's the attitude. And she's being cast and you're like, how is this going to go for for all of our younger viewers and listeners, not viewers, but listeners? One thing to know about the 90s and the 80s was that there was very much a real idea of stay in your lane. Oh, yeah. If you were if you were a musician, you did not crossover into acting. If you did, it was not treated successfully like nowadays. You got ridiculed. Yeah. And then sometimes that would actually even ruin the career you came from. Yeah. Like today, everyone loves seeing everyone have their hands in everything because it's cool. But back then it was not. And same thing goes for TV actors. If you were on TV on a network show, everyone wanted to be a movie star. George Clooney was coming off of romantic comedies with Michelle Pfeiffer one Fine Day, I love that movie. Did It Not Get was not a hit. He was coming off of Batman and Robin one of the biggest flops ever. Great film. This dude had a great, great, great film. This dude was he was on his last line and Soderbergh was on his like potential last line. Yes. So this is kind of the thing, and this is what makes this movie so cool, is because knowing who George Clooney and Jennifer Lopez are now, these two just like, like melt the screen with not just their chemistry but their stardom. Yeah. And it's like, who did not think that these two were stars going in before this and then seeing this movie and being like, I mean, duh, it's George Clooney and Jennifer Lopez when they're when you're seeing them in the trunk together, you're seeing two really good actors and they, Soderbergh put in through hell to do that. He shot at 47 fucking times in one take. He was obsessed with it. And then got into editing and hated it. So that was a reshoot. They went and did it how it is. He only made them do it like two times, where now there's like these cross feeds and that's what he's able to look at his own work and go, no, this isn't working. That's where you see both of them, okay? They have this charm. They can act when they're flirting. In that hotel bar, you are seeing two movie stars come to life. You're seeing like, yes, yes, of course. This is why he would become George Clooney and she would become Jennifer Lopez. And the way the non sex scene is cut, which was such a deliberate callback to Don't Look Now, the Nicolas Roeg movie and that and all this, like even in those five minutes, you're seeing Clooney, Lopez and Soderbergh all become stars and they're going to be able to hold this mantle for, you know, a long time. I mean, and no one stays on top forever, whatever. That's fine. But they these people were stars at the time, and this movie helped. And kind of most interestingly, this movie is not a hit. It was critically adored. People loved it, but people don't go see it. And I never I didn't understand that at the time, really. It just it wasn't the hit they wanted it to be. But again, director solid studio had solid. It's hip, it's fun. I can put this movie on any time. I love Out Of Sight so much. I love this movie. I know we're like, you know, we're going to be it's going to be a mix of like opinions on the movie versus law and how the movie got made in like the context of it. But yeah, this is just just was one of the coolest fucking movies ever made. Genuinely. So tell me, go, what do you do? Or do you want to go with this? Not yet. Don't say anything yet. I don't think it works for somebody else. And going so last, what do they know about anything? Well, this is your game. I've never played before. Not a game. That's something you play well. Does this make any sense to you? Doesn't have to. It's something that happens. It's like seeing someone for the first time. Like you could be passing on the street and you look at each other for a few seconds. This is kind of a, recognition. You both know something. The next moment, the person's gone and and it's too late to do anything about it. And you guys remember it because it was there, and you let it go, and you think to yourself, what if I had stopped? What if I had said something? What if what if? I may only happen a few times in your life. Once I was. Absolutely. Genuinely. And, And also one thing, the the what this movie is based off of, this is an Elmore Leonard movie. Yes. And. Yeah. And and I have a question that I was not sure of, and I'm wondering if we actually did have this conversation before, but Michael Keaton's cameo. Yep. Yep. Well, I've told tell me I've told this. Yeah. Yes. You have. Okay. This I don't think this is like, this had not been done when it was when it happened. So in 1997, there is a movie that is released based on an Elmore Leonard novel and then movies called Jackie Brown. And in that movie, one of the best characters in it is Ray Nicolette, played by Michael Keaton, and his sandals and his leather jacket. And boy, do I love him. Now, a year later, with a completely different studio, Universal's had Universal Pictures had nothing to do with Jackie Brown. Now we have another Elmore Leonard adaptation coming out, and they have this boyfriend role for Jennifer Lopez's character, and they're looking at who to cast. Basically, they decide, what if we cast Michael Keaton as the same character like and don't even make a thing of it, like, don't mention it. Tarantino showed Soderbergh some early footage from Jackie Brown of Michael Keaton as a character, and they went, yeah, cool, let's do it. So I don't know if that's ever been done before where the same actor playing the same character is going to two completely different movies, and it's never mentioned. And there's no it's not like, this is not a marvel thing where there's one guy who has the puppet strings. This is just something that they went for a swing and it worked. And I love it. I love Michael Keaton and Out of Sight that it's free to, you know, do they have one that says undercover? I'd love that. Yeah. That's so good. But, yeah. Isn't that cool? Isn't that just a cool? That's amazing. Like a 90s movie? Fun trivia fact. I love that shit. And the last thing I'll say about this before we move on to the next round up is like, I think this is definitely one of, like you said, one of the coolest movies you'll ever see. And it has that Elmore Leonard vibe. You could double feature this with Jackie Brown. That would make a hell of a great time. Oh yeah. But any Steve Zahn fans out there and I mean, listen, I love Steve Zahn, and this is one of his absolute best. I think he this I don't think a lot of what he brings to this table would work if he wasn't Steve Zahn. He's so good in this Glen, I love it. I love what she's in the car. He's like, oh, so you're going to bust me for taking a car? And he's so pissed off. But he's so here's what I'll say. Yes, he's very funny. He's going to give you the Steve Zahn thing, but Steve Zahn, as Glenn in this movie, witnesses something that, thankfully, Soderbergh's tactful as a director to show us. But when it's when is this something horrific and the horror that is on his face after you're like, the one of the funniest guys alive, is that terrified? And the person inflicting said terror is Don Cheadle. So if you think Don Cheadle is like, you know, if you haven't seen something like devil in a Blue Dress, great film, 95 with Denzel Washington, or he's I mean, he's terrifying as Snoop and out of sight, like, oh yeah, what he's capable of. And then, you know, Isaiah Washington like follow him around. That guy, he's creepy too, like that. That's the Soderbergh thing. Like he knows when to put it in, like, oh, I'm not going to show you what they did. That's that's a step way too far where it's like, let's get gets into gruesome shit, but I want you to see it play out on their faces and the horror that it had on them. So I love that. I love that juxtaposition between the characters. You know, what you just did right there? Use your favorite word in this, right? You did. The next year. You know, I mean, no one knows about out of sight. It's not like if I have to say he's not waiting for Out of Sight to work the next year, he he already has it in his mind that I need to have another movie going because of out of sight bombs, and at least I can maybe have something to fall back on, so why not make that very typical conventional LA noir thriller called The Limey, which is written as a, you know, a father visiting Los Angeles because his daughter has died under mysterious circumstances. So he wants answers, goddamn it. And they even shoot it that way. And then in editing, Steven Soderbergh and editor Sarah Flack decide to radically change the order of The Limey, creating truly just one of the best modern modern noirs that we have. I love this movie, so much, I, I watch it all the time. It's short, it's lean, it's mean. It's a puzzle. I love The Limey and I love the dislike. It wasn't. He did not go conventional out of out of sight after out of sight. Rather, trust me, this is not a conventional movie, but it's awesome. It is so good. And I remember the first time watching it, and I. And I feel like anyone who's never seen this, you're going to feel the same way. You're going to kind of start to kind of give yourself like a couple double takes and be like, wait a second, what's happening? I did not hear that. And I just see that. What? Yeah, it's exposition over emotional headspace over time, lapsing over plot over actual information. And then it's all expressionism. Yep. And it shouldn't work. It really should not work. And I don't know how it does. I cannot explain in any sort of fluidity in to how that works. But damn it, does it like you just need like the first five minutes to kind of get adjusted. And once you are, you are now in the language of the film. Yeah. And because it never really leaves this, it does for certain times, but it goes right back, like when we're at the big party. Oh, God. You know, like, I love that scene, but for a while we're in like, oh, we're okay. We're in a bit of like, real time. There isn't really a lot of flashing or not flashing. I don't even know what you call it, but there's no editing really happening. And then all of a sudden, right in the middle of it, there is. Yeah. And then you get it. What? Oh, okay. Oh, okay. Okay. Amazing. It's so fucking cool. Yeah. And it really underscores the CD underbelly that's just right there in LA. You know, his daughter was in an acting class, so she has acting friends, and you're like, how harmless is this? But then you just meet. You just need to know that one right person. And that person knows someone that can deal you a gun in a park. And you see the got the deal going down under the table and that this is Soderbergh. It cuts to who who Terence Stamp The Limey is dealing with a couple of kids. It's just boom, there it is. And there's nothing. There's no pen put on it. There's no like, oh wow. It's really oh, it's really a shame. These youths out here. It's not that at all. We, the audience just have to go, oh fuck this. Those guys are like 13 years old, selling him a gun and a bunch of bullets. You okay? And. Yeah. And yes, you're totally right. Watch it. Accept it. Do not be trying to figure it out and everything's going to land. It's going to make sense. It's all makes. Believe me. It's fairly simple. Yeah, yeah. It's not the most abstract movie that has ever been made. Like far from it, but it is very experimental in its editing style. I mean, he's editing, he's editing in scenes from Ken Loach's first film, Poor Cow, that feature a young Terence Stamp. Like, yeah, none of this should work like it shouldn't. The first time we meet Peter Fonda in the movie, Terry Valentine? Oh, I love Peter Valentine in The Limey and Injustice in the world. It was a great year, but he would have been nominated for supporting Actor. I would have nominated him over the winner, Michael Caine. Cider House rules. Let's do that movie next, said no one. The first time you meet Peter Fonda in The Limey, he cuts like a 92nd trailer of the character, and you flash forward to, like, all these scenes that he's going to be in for the next hour of the movie, and you're like, I don't. I didn't even know a movie could do this. Like, it's so fucking cool. It it's, mad. And I mean, Barry Newman has his, you know, lackey Avery is such a staple of 70 cinema. Obviously. So is Peter Fonda. Lesley and Warren's in there? It's just cool, man. But it's mean. It's meaner than out of sight. It's close shit. But it's down and dirty. And Terence Stamp with the Cockney rhyme slang, I, even when he breaks in, it's not even a break and just goes into the warehouse and he's talking to that big guy, you know, and beat the shit out of that. He leaves, just gets back up. It goes back in there, blows him away. But we don't need to see that. The camera states outside it's highest marks for me. Just as a as a film. How are you doing it all right. Oh, yeah. It looks square. You're the governor, right? I can see that. I'm on your manner now, so there's no need to get your knickers in a twist. Whatever this ballocks is that's going down between you. And it's like Valentine. It's got nothing to do with me. I couldn't care less. All right, mate, let me explain you. When I was in prison, second time. No. Totally. Third stretch. Yeah, but. But there was this screw what really had it in for me. And that geezer was top of my list. Two years after I got sprung, I sees him in on a park. He's sitting on a bench feeding bloody pigeons. It was no one about. I could have gone up behind him and snapped his fucking neck. Well, but I left him. I could run off with him, but I didn't. That's what I thought I wanted, wasn't what I wanted. What I thought I was thinking about was something else. I didn't give a toss. It didn't matter. See, this book on the bench wasn't worth my time. It meant sod all in the end, because you got to make a choice when to do something, and when I let it go, when it matters and when it done. Bide your time. That's what prison teaches you. If nothing else, bide your time and everything becomes clear and you can act accordingly. There's one thing I don't understand. The thing I don't understand is every motherfucking word you say. And there's just so many great little one liners. Too many writing that are both like, profound, funny, and like they're speaking to the characters. So it's all really it's it's honestly it's perfect. But one of my favorite things that Peter Fonda says is that he's like, he's like, oh, come on, I don't freak out anymore. As like as if, like there's like a time in age limit to when you freak out or yeah, come on. But he goes, oh, I am screwed. I am screwed to the wall. I just, I mean, everything about him the way like he has this young, you know, young girlfriend, but then he's talking about her parents. I'm like, so you've known her since she was like, born, and now she's your girlfriend. And it's just he's such a Hollywood, he's playing like a music producer in it, but he's such a scumbag, and, he's playing a version of himself like he has to be. He's leaning into the Peter Fonda ness of it, and it's brilliant. It's. It's so good. It's great. So that's 99. Things are going better for him. We're still in phase two. The phase two is definitely the longest he makes the most movies in this phase of his career. And then next year, the year 2000 is one of the best years for an American filmmaker ever. He in March releases Erin Brockovich, starring Julia Roberts. It is a massive fucking hit. It is critically adored. It makes a shitload of money. It will be nominated for Oscars for the entire year 2000 from March on. No one else's name was mentioned for Best Actress except Julia Roberts. It is one of the biggest locks Oscar locks of my lifetime. She walked it all the way to the stage, and then in December he gives us traffic. Probably his still his most critically revered film in terms of Oscar stuff. It gets nominated for things. It wins. Things he gets, as I've said, nominated twice for Best director. He wins one of them for traffic. It is an insane year. We will start with Erin Brockovich, a movie that I understand you had never seen before. Nope. Give it to us. I had not seen it. What did you think? And, True story. Of course. People, I'm not going to explain it. Erin Brockovich is about. Come on people. Yeah, no, but the one thing I do want to say about it is that, like, I remember when this movie came out and I had not seen it, but I but I knew that that that lock that you were talking about, like no one could stop talking about this movie. No one could stop talking about her. To the point, even when I was a kid, I'd be like, I don't I don't really care to see this movie. Yeah, I don't really. It had that kind of like, I it's been shoved down my throat type thing. That was me with The Cider House rules. Sorry. Oh, let I me wasn't everybody. But this is again like, there's so much great stuff in here. I never give Julia Roberts credit. She is always someone that I write off as a movie star, not an actor. And I shouldn't because she has that movie star quality unlike anyone else. Like the opening shot is of Julia Roberts as Erin Brockovich. And you're just like, yeah, it's. You're magnetized. It's honestly, it's it's brilliant. It's brilliant acting, it's great. It's just great all around. But the thing that I noticed about Erin Brockovich and Traffic and this is kind of where I still want to always kind of like drive home. These are two very politically driven movies. Yes. One is more contained. And then that would be this one, Erin Brockovich to a town. And the, the way that the government has been not protecting these people and they're getting sick and people and, and they're not being taken care of and it's not, it's inhumane, it's not correct. And then traffic takes it to a whole world scope. Yeah. This is what I mean is, like, you can tell that the driving force behind both of these movies is Soderbergh is saying, this is what's going on in our country. This is going on in our world. This is not right. And this is how I'm going about expressing that statement. And they're delivered beautifully in both of these movies. And I think they I think Erin Brockovich deserves every bit of the attention that it got. And, and and traffic. It's I think everyone just needs to go and rewatch that again. Like now. Right now, traffic was my second favorite film of the century so far. If people go back and listen to that episode. But yeah, to begin, I mean, yeah, Erin Brockovich is like his 70s, then maybe he's into the 80s too. But like Norma Rae, Sally fields and Norma Rae, Silkwood was one with Meryl Streep. Like, you're doing these activist movies. And then also the to 2000 was this time, like messing with my water movies were a thing, you know, like Civil Action Time. Yeah. I mean, seriously serious stuff right there like it. And she stepped into that. Well, and it's still a Soderbergh movie when you watch it, it's more of like a convention. Yeah, but he's doing he's got some radical colors in it. I mean, it's shot by Ed Lockman, just an amazing DP with neon lighting and stuff. So I had not rewatched in quite some time and it just it holds up. It's a really entertaining movie. It does. It moves very fast. She's very good. My favorite thing I'll say about it doesn't have anything to do with this movie. When I left L.A and moved back to Northern Virginia. So we're in like 2017, I, I was working a place. It was a it just wasn't a good job. You know, it's like a starter job. Yeah. Moving back and it just wasn't that good. But I got in and then God damn it, I didn't know. Okay. So yeah, it was fuck, I didn't know what's going to happen. So while I was at this job, my mom passed away and it was I didn't think that was going to catch me at all. And it was obviously very you know, tough. And I like had to go back to work quickly because I literally didn't have any money. And that's just the way it happened. And I was doing some stuff with cameras and doing interviews on occasion. And my boss, like my first week back, goes, hey, we're going to go do this shoot today. I went, okay, this is cool. So we're sitting there and I'm like, setting up for an interview. And he goes, so the person who's going to walk in here, you're going to be aware of. And I'm like, And I don't know what the the coincidences of who knew who and how this worked out. But five minutes later, the real Erin Brockovich just walks into the room and she's, she's exactly what you think should be. She's loud. She's fiercely intelligent, hyper articulate, an extremely nice woman. And she walks in and I ask her about the movie and I, you know, we interviewed her for something completely unrelated to film or anything like that. Talking about Steven Soderbergh, she told me he was great. Every Julia was great. Everyone was great. You know, people who are known get gifted shit all the time. So she had like this. Tiffany's case with her, you know, the baby blue Tiffany's case. And. And it was a flower vase. And so Aaron said, I've heard you've been, like, going through something tough lately. Would you? You know, like this fast? Do you have a girlfriend? And I went, I do, and she's like, you should give her this. So she gave it to me. And we still have it. We call it the Erin Brockovich vase. And it's really nice, but. But that was a really cool story. A month later, we had to do reshoots to that interview, and she remembered my name and asked me how I was doing with my mom's passing. That that's a special soul right there. And I was like, what the fuck? It just it meant so much to me. So yeah, she was really cool. That's that's it. That's my story. I've pictures that they're like, it was awesome. It was just really cool. And she shared some the things she was conscious of and yeah, it was great. She was a great woman. And I can see why someone want to make a movie after, oh fuck, I forgot. Jesus, the funniest thing she she's like, yeah, this was my story because I said, how did this even happen? And she said, she goes, I was getting my back adjusted with a chiropractor telling her my story. And like a month later, I was sitting in with studio executives because her husband worked at a studio and it's just Hollywood baby. She moved to LA, so she was like living there, and that's how she can happen. And then a few years later, the movie's made, and and the most famous person in the world is playing a person with your name winning an Oscar for playing you. How did that feel? But she. Yeah. So it's really, really, really cool, lady. It's just sometimes life is weird and it I don't know, you just meet people and you didn't know you were going to and it was cool as shit. So that's my Erin Brockovich story. And yeah, I like the movie too. And I like the movie too. You kind of touched on traffic. We've we haven't talked about traffic as much as we need to. I think I could kind of tease it. We said, next time we're together, a commentary could be a lot of fun commentary. And I mean, yeah, I mean, I could pack in a lot of info into that, but this is a movie, you know, if you've listened throughout our time with the podcast, especially even the top of the century, or I mean, the got my favorite directors where I talked about traffic, like, this movie just means so much to me. It helped me personally because, yeah, I, I saw this movie when I was 15. I was not unfamiliar with addiction. I'll put it that way. As a spectator, as a voyeur. Help me understand a lot. I mean, the Erika Christiansen character there, there was a lot of my brother in that, but my brother was far more, you know, he wasn't this hidden. He was just a little more open with it and explicit. So, yeah. And every time I watch a movie, every time I'm completely taken with it and I love it. And I agree, everyone should go watch it. And I have one little piece of trivia for this that heard it, listening to Steven Soderbergh's commentary that he does with writer Steven Kagan, which I've heard before. So just one of those things that I've forgotten, they decided kind of late in editing something about the movie was not working. They did not know what it was, but something wasn't working. And someone made the suggestion of turning all the sound into mono. So all the sound in traffic is just coming from the center speaker, not the score and any music that's played, but it's all the center speaker. And he said that completely unlocked everything. And I don't know how I forgot that. Maybe it's just because I'm not. I wasn't obsessed with audio then like I am now, people I cannot in a world where like, you know, fascinated. 7.1 Dolby surround sound, Imax sound, it's all around us making the decision. I'm just putting the sound in mono is so fun. Like it's it's a astounding that he did that. And you really feel that. You absolutely feel that when you're watching the movie. I it's amazing. It's such a bold choice to do that. It's the audio, component kind of of doing black and white, essentially. Think of it that way. Yeah, yeah. Oh, wow. Dude, that makes so much sense. Yeah. There is something that like, as you're saying, that, like, I didn't notice that. Like, I would have never been able, I don't know, sound or audio well enough to be able to say something like that. But I remember watching that movie and being like, there's something with the way that I'm hearing everything here. That, that I could never put my finger on it. I would never be able to even guess that. That's what it was. But now that you said it, that triggered like a complete like understanding response for me. I mean like that makes so much sense because I did feel something that you don't normally feel when people are talking. Yeah, when people were in these worlds, because so much of it is outside, so much of it is indoors. But there is something that just seems singular in that sound. And now that that's the reason I'm like that. So it makes me wonder how that must have changed during the edit. Like how like what must not have been working for because we ran into something like that with there I Go when we were editing where, where we ended up using the sound that we use on the day, as opposed to the mics that we were given. Because as soon as we use the mics, for whatever reason, it took the emotion out of everything. That's his explanation for this. It sounded too pretty to clean. It just sounded too much like a movie. He wanted it to sound more like a gritty documentary. So like when Benicio was talking to that couple in the street and like, we pay him stupid. He's like, no, no, no, no, no, let's let's step out. Let's go to the street. You the cars are going by old and it's all just coming from a few speakers like the center to speakers. I would say one thing to the judge, and that's never going to solve this problem on the supply side. As long as that demand is out there in our cities, Mexico bashing is not going to do a damn thing for you. We in the legal drug business, and I mean Merck and Pfizer and the rest of my very important clients realize that we're not fighting a war here with a traditional winner and loser. I don't know that you can win this war. I mean, everybody says we want to declare war on drugs, but, you know, if you have 25% of high school seniors, you're using drugs. If you reduce that to ten, that's a great improvement, right? And I'll congratulate you. That'd be a phenomenal achievement. But you still have 10% using drugs. Yeah. Scotch and soda, please. The price of coke and heroin has dropped, but purity has increased. So all this law enforcement has really achieved is that kids get better stuff. Education or rehabilitation prevention that's not significant to these reporters. They want to see people in prison. They want to see the gory aspect of the drug. You so much for sharing your point of view. And I look for this opportunity with, we'll call me because I have a good bill on treatment, on demand. I your your number one if I look for it. Okay. Thanks. If a judge or if, politicians willing to put a reefer in their mouth, I'll do a story on right, stand up and be independent. Because I don't care who's president. I don't care who the members of Congress are. I love traffic sound, I love sound, I, I love traffic, traffic next year. So traffic. Yeah. No big deal. I mean, the Oscars for the for the movies that came out in the year 2000, you got Best Actress going to one of his movies, Best supporting actor, going to Benicio for traffic, Best Adapted Screenplay Steven Geoghegan, traffic editing Steven Maroni, traffic. I love that there were four Oscar wins for traffic, and the first names of all the people who won were Steven, Steven, Steven and Benicio. Yeah, it's amazing fun little fact. And you know, with this clown, actually, he was already filming because in his Oscar speech, he says suddenly going work tomorrow doesn't sound like such a good idea. And during that time, he was filming just a little movie with a handful of people, in Las Vegas, came out that December. It's called Ocean's 11. Perhaps few people have heard of it. I mean, we're talking cool out of sight. So cool. The Limey cool, but mean. Yeah, Ocean's 11 is slick and cool to the bone. And what I'll say, I know a lot of people have seen this. This is one of the most compulsively rewatchable movies there is. You can start it any time. I've never really heard anyone say a bad thing about it. Like, oh, it's like, oh man, that movie so slow. The movie fucking sucks. You're like, no, you're just not watching the same thing. Do you have it on mute? Like, what are you talking about? Ocean's 11, released in 2001. A great film of films. If I was to guess, this has to be the most known and well-regarded Steven Soderbergh movie. Yeah, even if you don't know he did it. Yes. Yeah. For sure. Like when it when it all is said and done weirdly enough, this is going to be the movie that, like the most people know. I'm always saying that from the from being on the side of things, like when you're doing a podcast, everyone and you've spent months living in the heart and soul of a of one singular director's artwork. There's nothing wrong at all with Ocean's 11. I love it, but when you realize that, wow, this guy's done so much, but yet exactly. This is going to be the movie that is going to be his most well known. And and it's just sort of wild to think that. But that's not taking away from the movie at all, because anyone who's seen it, and that's pretty much like 99.9% of the world is like, this movie is as cool as cool ever gets with a cast that you cannot beat. And I was going to bring this up during the out of sight thing. Why do we love George Clooney? Like, what is it about? What's this quality, this niche, if you will, that he possesses? And what I've realized is it's like he is a leader. That is what he does the best, even if he fails, because there are some movies he does as a leader that will actually, I think, come up and talk about pretty soon. But there is a leadership quality to him. And once he tapped into that, it started with Out of Sight, where he's the guy in charge of this that allows every bit of his coolness, his charm, his confidence. It all is vibing when he is in a position of being that leader. And that's why if you're ever going to try to be cooler than Brad Pitt, like, like, how do you fight? Like, how do you make Brad Pitt a supporting? Yeah, you can't George Clooney. And it's like, because he's the leader and you're like, oh my God, this like how how does this work? How is Brad Pitt like not the star bill and the leader of this because he's Clooney is that's just that's how he serves. Yeah. That's how he serves. And it's amazing. Yeah I mean post out of sight. He did Three Kings, which he was the star of and was a help. He did the perfect storm. Huge summer movie. Oh brother where art thou. He's a lead of these leader of all. Yes he is. He's so. Ocean's 11 drops peak stardom. And Brad Pitt is kind of going through the thing where it's not similarly to George a few years earlier, maybe not working out as well as he thought as a leading man. Some things aren't going his way. True. So yeah, why not take a slightly supporting performance, but then maybe give the coolest performance of the movie of the whole series? It's true. Yeah. One thing I gotta point out about Ocean's 11 is that if you it's like if you watch this, one of the reasons it makes it so watchable is that it's so well edited and written and all that and performed. It ain't easy to put these movies together. You and I both been involved in shooting scenes, just like a conversation of 3 or 4 people talking. It's hell. It's oh my God, the worst thing to shoot in the world is people, like sitting around a table or talking. He's routinely got 12, 13, 14 people in here. The shots never get stale, the angles never get stale. The information is being deciphered exactly. How is it how it should in this? If it looks easy, trust me, these movies are not easy. And he's talked about this. That. Oh my God, if if that movie looks easy. It was so hard to do. It's really hard to make it look that polished. It is not like, yeah, this comes right out of the camera like that. No it doesn't. And it. Yeah, it's so good. It's so well done. Did he run into that to that trouble some 412 and 1308. He kind of find a rhythm or. It's just it was just always going to be hard. I mean it was hard. His main thing for all the movies, for all those big scenes with all the guys talking, this is a very Soderbergh thing to do. As the cinematographer, you're usually blocking everyone. Come in here, sit here, do this, sit here. He's like, come into the room and stay where you think your characters would go. Like, obviously, if George and Brad are going to be giving the presentation, they'd be up front or or whatever it is, maybe someone you know and just sit down how you would. I will position my cameras around you and that's what he does. So you come in and he just shoots it all and that's what he tries to do. And then in editing, he tries to never it just in a, you know, a talking situation, talking scene like that. He tries not to reuse shots. And if you've seen a movie or coming up to we've done a commentary for a movie we've coming up to, if you listen to that commentary for us, you I've talked about this before too, that, you know, yeah, he doesn't want to try to replicate shots, but none of it is easy. The reliance on montage, which works so well in these movies, none of it is easy. None of it. Yeah. And I, I mean he brings in Steven Marrone to edit these with him but that's who edited traffic as well. And it's good he he knows when he needs a hand when it's like a huge project like this. So that's smart to do. But yeah Ocean's 11. What more can you say. No no. It should have gotten nominated for like, every Oscar. This is what I'm saying. Like they just didn't know what they were doing. Then zero Oscar nominations. This is like the year that A Beautiful Mind wins. Lord of the rings one is nominated like Iris. Iris? Oh, yeah. Remember that movie Iris that everyone has seen so many times? We our first movie, we did a deep dive on episode four, Iris, starring Judi Dench and Jim Broadbent. We love that film. Jesus Christ, when that. I mean, come on, people, why not nominate Brad Pitt? Like, what were you doing? It's so stupid. And like, I don't know, whatever, I get it. The year before is like his Oscar year, but Ocean's 11 no Oscar nominations. It was released just in late December. It was released in December. Sorry. Late in the year. Just I don't know. They didn't know what they were doing. This is going to matter everyone, because he works with one particular actor for the very first time in this movie. That will literally pop up in damn near almost every single one of his following works. And that is none other than SAG after his own Matt Damon. Matt Damon. Yeah, he's this guy. He's this guy. He is absolutely his guy. And I find it to be amazing is the way that he uses him in. So much of his work is sort of. It's hilarious, but yet it's a credit to Matt Damon because Matt Damon, even no matter how small it might be, kills it. Matty, just. I need you in Bolivia. Yeah. One day of filming. Jay. Part two. Stevie I'll be there. Here. You got to live. He's done in ten minutes. Oh, and by the way, you're only speaking in Spanish. Yeah, man. Thanks. You. Latitude. Yeah. It's the like the one seed. Cameos are great there. He has bigger. I wouldn't call it a cameo, but the way that he dominates the last 30 minutes of No Sudden Move. Oh, my God, it is perfect. It's like this circle. It's still absolutely beautiful. But yeah, this all started right here. It's kind of the dweeb, Linus. And wow, does he step up. Yep. So while he is right in the middle of this phase two of his career, he's doing very well. He's becoming. People are starting to know who Steven Soderbergh is. And now what's going to develop is something he constantly bucked up against, but that the press will dub as one for me, one for them. So the one for them was Ocean's 11. I made him a lot of money. So now I'm going to do this tiny $2 million thing called Full Frontal. Some of it I'm just to fuck with you. I'm going to shoot on gorgeous 35 millimeter. Most of it. I'm going to shoot on the very beginning of digital camera. Like the grainy of the grainy. It's going to be a simple story about some folks in the industry gearing up for a party. It's going to have a lot of famous people in it. Julia Roberts is going to show up, Brad Pitt will be in there, and then he gives his actors to do this, like, this thing is a total experiment, full frontal. He gives them ten rules that there were all the sets were practical locations. So you're not going to just show up on a set. You drive yourself to the set. You have to maintain your own hair and wardrobe and makeup. There's no trailers. You need to be able to improvise. You will be interviewed about your character and that may end up in the movie. It's just nuts. Like he. So it's this big, huge Steven Soderbergh experiment, his first and biggest since skits. Opolis. And he just wants to make it is like, I don't know, keeping like the juices fresh and not doing this highfalutin studio stuff all the time. This bullshit like Ocean's 11, the Oscars don't care about. So he does Full Frontal. It's a it's a very little seen Soderbergh movie, which we're going to talk about some and I don't know, I have a little affection for it. I kind of like it. I think it's fun. Dude, this movie is crazy and I really liked it. I did not, again, you go back to his humor even though he didn't write this, but it this has that. So DeBerg bite to it. It's unmistakable. Like once you kind of know what his humor is like when he leans into it, I think that's what I end up liking about it more is like, you know, that this is deep down, this is what this guy thinks is hilarious. Well, and it's like, it's it's a very biting satire of the industry, not unlike the players, certainly not as polished as a player, but you have Jeff Garlin playing, loud, Diet Coke guzzling Hollywood producer named Harvey. And this is supposed to be Harvey White. Like, it's it's right. It's right there you have the great Nikki Cat. Rest in peace, Nikki cat, we love you. We miss you. Please rest in peace. He is credited only as Hitler and Full Frontal because he's probably got a one man show playing Hitler. It's a funky movie, folks. It's a funky, funky movie. And this is also goes for The Limey because he's in The Limey, too. And you know that all of his lines were in they were in the like. If they were they you can't not. And he go, he's so raunchy and in his goes, he goes. Clearly whoever is offended by drinking blood has never drank blood. And then he's getting a talk down from his director and he goes, no, listen, listen. There's no one else. So you no one else would ever want to play this part. You are Hitler. Yeah, yeah. But there's so many fucking self-serious actors. Have you been to LA who think, like, you know, in their head they're like, I think I could pull this shit off, man. I think like, oh, shit. And Nikki Katz responds in the moment he goes, thank you, man. I really appreciate it. And I feel that too. Like, I feel like I am. I am in his I'm Hitler. It's just amazing. But there is some real cool experimental stuff going on here and it dawns on me, and this is one of those coolest things that I. I don't want to spoil it because I don't want to like, well, I don't maybe I just will because I don't think no one's seen this movie just to say no one's going to see it. So when you go back to the way you were talking about how there's glorious like 35 millimeter, and then there's this grainy, awful stuff. And for a long period of time, at least, I didn't know why we were seeing this movie in this way. Oh, in certain scenes, it took me a little bit. And it and it wasn't until honestly, I don't think it was until the lovemaking scene with Catherine Keener. And, I forget that actor's name, Blair Underwood. He's great. Yes. He's great. And and I was really digging it because he does like this really cool thing where he blurs everything out. And I was like, man, it's like, this is one of the most realest moments of the whole entire movie. It's he's she's cheating on his at her husband. But they're in the throes of passion. But we're getting the most blurred. And I go, oh my God, I get it. The reality is the shit grainy that that's the metaphor he's making, is that this town is a bunch of bullshit and it's all ugly. And then the 35mm fake, and it took me so long and I just go, I'm an idiot. But you know what? I love it, and I it made it opened up the movie for me in an amazing way. All the actors know exactly what they're doing. David Hyde Pierce is to me, like one of the most unsung treasures we have in acting. That dude is amazing. He's everything. Yeah, he's great in this too, I love it. I didn't know you were such a fan. Even the way he's caring about the dog, the heat of the pot brownie. And yeah, it's. And he's just like, it's just, you know, you just don't want her to, you know, die. And you just believe every single bit. And then when he collapses in the front of the fridge. Yeah, it's it's it's it's funny. Good. I'm glad. Like it's hilarious. Give these lesser known Soderbergh movies a shot. Like, they're so topless. Full frontal a some. We're going to talk about coming up if you're a fan of his. Yeah, it's the humor more than anything that comes through, especially with it is yeah. Especially this, which is a perfect segue to, I mean, I, I've been going I've been saying the years, but you know, this we've been getting one a year basically. And if he doesn't give us one a year, like he didn't give us 1 in 1997, oh boo hoo. He gave us 2 in 2000. So I mean he doesn't give us 1 in 2003. Gives us 2 in 2002. Starts with full frontal wasn't very widely seen and takes a huge swing. He wants to remake a beloved science fiction film directed by the beloved Andrei Tarkovsky. Andrea Andrei Tarkovsky is a big, big time producer guy who just came off a huge movie, Titanic. He's got James Cameron as a producer and he makes Solaris. He remakes Tarkovsky's very well-regarded science fiction masterpiece. That movie's very long. He pares it down, he turns it into 100 minutes. It comes out. It's respected by those who see it, but really, no one goes to see it. And this movie is my heart. It has my soul as it was so close to making my top 25 of the century, I really wanted to stick true to like not repeating directors if I could help it. It was very difficult for Soderbergh, like really difficult. But I love this movie. I will put this thing on any time the way it is assembled, the way it is performed, whatever criticism, if you've seen it, you don't like it, the criticisms you have against it. You can have an arsenal too slow. It doesn't go anywhere. I understand and I get it. This thing, honestly, watching it, I was tremendously moved. This watching it for this episode, I was tremendously moved and tremendously bummed because he's never going to do something like this again. And I think this movie is emotive and beautiful and touches on so many themes that are so close to my heart. I love this movie. I, I was in the this is another one of my first times was with this movie. You've never seen this? I had never seen. Oh my God, I thought we had talked about it. Wow. Yeah, a huge influence, particularly over my movie earrings. Like there's. So that's that's the conversation. Yeah. That was the conversation. Where were you brought this up to me? And and I've also never seen the Tarkovsky version of this. So I really want to go and watch that one because I do want to just, just not because I want to critique it, but I do want to see what those differences are, what the similarities are. But there's one thing that I just do not think Tarkovsky could capture, and I'm and I'm not going to hold it against Tarkovsky's if it doesn't. But I mean this with all my heart. I don't know if I've ever seen an A History of Love expressed so powerfully then this. Yeah, this is what I'm saying, and I can't I don't have like a perfect memory recall, but they're very, very different films. They are. And then that. That's good. They should be. I, you know, being a big fan of inception, you know, part of what always got me the most in that movie was the, the, the can't, the not being able to let go of that, love that. And so like when I saw this, I was like, oh my God. Like so much of inception lives in Solaris in this version of it has to like that. It just can't not. But I don't know that. Natasha McElhenney I am a huge fan. Yeah, because I'm the biggest Californication fan. That's why I thought I had no idea you hadn't seen this. I would have been pushing it on you harder. She's oh my God. And oh my God, she's so good. Her fucking eyes, man. Her eyes are. Those are the best movie eyes I think I've ever seen. They're. She. She commands the screen with her face. It her perfect cheekbones, her jaw structure. Her eyes are so expressive. And there's one scene that where, she's in one shot. She does not move her body at all. It's just her face. And even her face moves with the slightest little movement. But she is talking about how she cannot put together these memories that she's having that involve her taking sleeping pills or anti-anxiety medication or what it isn't. She's freaking out and it's all in frame. And then George Clooney goes to leave and she just keeps saying, yeah, over and over. And every yeah is a different thought. And her eyes are expressing it. But the chemistry between George Clooney and her is some of the most incendiary film chemistry I've seen between two people ever. I felt this love in these flashbacks because I guess it's the only way you could really describe them. Dreams, flashbacks, whatever they were of how these two are. Yeah. And I mean, there's nothing more powerful. I just don't I just don't know how you can do what he did with this. I'll be honest, some of the sci fi didn't work for me at certain parts. What does that mean? Do you mean, like the way it looks or like. That's like the the science they're making up behind it? I don't know, there was like, a part of me that didn't really care as much about, like, the issue at hand versus like the, the emotional factor of it. That's. So that's not the movie's fault. Yeah. That's get it. Yeah. There is like a plot mechanism at play that. Yeah. Yes. That that the, the original I think relies on more basically like, you know there's it has to that's why there's this therapist because I don't think a lot of people seen as George Clooney, it's the near future and he's at home and it's, you know, he's getting messages like, you got to come up to the space station because some very, very, very weird shit is going on up here. And we think you're the only one that can figure it out. And as soon as he gets up there, well, pretty soon after he gets up there, he sees the love of his life is on the ship. Yeah, but she's dead. So how is she here? So, yeah, that's like a very, very loose setup. Okay, so I get what you mean. Yeah, but, yeah, but you did like, this was. I did like. Oh, yeah. How good is Jeremy Davis in it? He did all that on his own. The weird like, you know, if you know who you know Jeremy Davies, like, he has a very famous way of, like, talking. And it's not fame. Singular is what I'm looking for. And everything he does here, the mannerisms and the very slow and staccato way. Yeah. Of talking. That was all him. Yeah, that was good. That was good. Oh, thanks. Yeah, it really does bring up a theme that I've started to notice in his work. You know, we talk about these directors where, you know, every director really does have a, if you do what we do with, like, I'm saying, like, if you dive into a director like this, you are going to start picking up on these thematic questions that the director poses. And, and this is even still goes into his work later on. Oh, yeah. I do feel like Soderbergh does have a, a question in him that is what is real like what is reality like? Is real versus not real? Is this real? Is this fake? Is this it? Because even in the heist movies, it's all designed to make something seem like it's something very off. Really? It's not. Yep. There, there. There's this thing that he does. And this to me is more at that personalized message of like, what is real if I am feeling it, and if it's like this person who is actually clearly dead and there's going to be a respawning of it, it's not real, but it's real enough for me that this movie hits it on the head. But I started to notice that I'm like, he is. He's after something here. With that. Yeah, I could talk about this movie forever. It's like there's no Blu ray, there's no 4K. I get it. Never really had an audience. But like, come on people. I mean, this is people as in like distributors, like, I just I wish so many more people would see this. It's really slow, patient cinema and I love that he tried it and I loved it. He had James Cameron's backing. They do a commentary on the DVD I own. It's really good. It's a really good commentary. It's amazing. Yeah. So yeah, Full Frontal. He didn't really expect to go to make a bunch of money salaries. I don't know, it doesn't. So perhaps this is the argument. It's like I've given, you know two for me. So let me do one for them. I'll give him the movie. Everybody wants Ocean's 12, and I will give it in a way that nobody wants, except your dutiful host of What Are You Watching? Because episode 105 of this podcast, we recorded a commentary on Steven Soderbergh's Ocean's 12, our favorite of the Ocean's films. And I will say from my research in this episode, when I got to Ocean's 12, I put on our commentary. Oh, yes, I did, because I was like, let me see if it holds up. Let me, because I know I was talking, you know, I say a lot and I believe all of it's true. Like, it's just all this movie knowledge. It's in my head. Did I listen to it? I'm like, oh yeah, that is right. That's yeah. That's true. Yeah, okay, I did I wasn't full of shit. Okay, cool. I thought it was a really fun commentary. We were really like, you just in our back. We were having a lot of fun, so go listen to that if you wanted to. I we love this movie. But yeah, Ocean's 12 is I will still maintain it is one of the biggest and best deliberate fuck use to Hollywood. This is a major studio movie made by a major studio, and the rules that it breaks in the end, I just remember guests in the theater when I was seeing it and people did not know what was happening, and I loved it. The Julia Roberts stuff I'm referring to. I love this movie. If all the animals along the equator were capable of flattery, then Thanksgiving and Halloween would fall on the same day. Yeah. Hey, Yeah. When I was four years old, I watched my mother kill a spider with a Dixie. And years later I realized that was not a spider. It was my Uncle Harold. Oh, let the sun beat down upon my face. Stars to fill my dreams I am a traveler in both time and space. To be where I have been. Oh, go and do, Europe in August. I'm going and I'm going to Amsterdam. Never been. And I didn't know where to stay. So I'm staying at the hotel that they stayed in. Oh hell yeah. The room was like a hotel. So much. Yeah. The rooms, some of the rooms were set and stuff, but they were. That's is where they were staying. So I'm gonna go stay there. The only reason I'm staying there is because it's from this movie. It's it. I feel like that's what I would do. Yeah, but I've no idea where to stay. I like I have no clue, so let me do it. Looks as good as all the rest said I remember. It's like on part of a water, so I have to do it. So yeah, I'll report back. You know, this is how much of a movie nerd you are is when you're going to places you've never been. That in order to find out where you stay, you look to a movie where you know that that's where it was shot. And then you're like, yeah, I wonder if I could stay in that place. This is how I designed my entire Paris trip. I looked at all the movie locations I wanted to go to and pick. I'm like, The Eiffel Tower is the Eiffel Tower that's going to be there, but and I will go visit it, but I want to go to and man, did I knock him out. God, I know it was a great day. Two days of just jolting all over Paris, walking it irreversible in the morning. Oh, that was great. Like, you know, I was my that was my first stop. I'll have you know. Well, Yeah. Ocean's 11, great film. Ocean's 12 two is what we're talking about. That one's great. I'm so it's. Yeah, I it's such a fun commentary for that. And that movie made money, but it wasn't really the movie people were asking for was a it was a pretty big, he diverted a lot of expectations. But we'll get back to that when he kind of settles up with the House in 2007. First, he is doing something else really, really radical, something really small. And he has this idea because another thing is the first one I'm going to touch about it, touch on it with Soderbergh. He's also fascinated with distribution. He's been fascinated from the get of like, if if no studio wants my movie or they're not going to push it the right way, what can I do to, I don't know, mitigate that. You see, that's why we had and one of the phases almost exclusively streaming movies. He's trying around what that distribution for bubble made and released in like festivals in 2005, but released to the public. It was the first movie ever to be released day and date, meaning they put this in. It was only like 100 but movie theaters on Friday, and it was also available to rent on that same day. Now that's very common. It happens. It was the first time it had ever happened. This is, as the tagline states, another Steven Soderbergh experience. Very small movie, all unknown actors. It is a quaint little town where they make dolls and a murder happens. Who did the murder? That's about it. It is 73 minutes long. Same writer Coleman who as Full Frontal made it for 1.6 million. And I love this movie. I think this is a truly great home town murder mystery that does not star anyone you've ever heard of, but it is a Steven Soderbergh movie. I own it, and I love it. Yeah, and I think you watch it for the first time. You did. You gave me the you gave me these two DVDs that like. And I remember I saw the cover of this one and, and I was like, oh wow, I do. Yeah. Yep. And I thought I didn't I it took me a little bit, but I thought this was an earlier work. I thought this was like like sex, lies and videotape. Oh, okay. But then I saw in his room he is a grand theft auto like San Andreas poster. I go, wait a second, this can't. But when did this come out? And I look at, I go 2006 hotel. And because because you just what exactly like these are all no name actors in like this tiny little town that looks just like Rochester, New York. This movie is something else, man. It is a little tiny, weird piece of business that I absolutely loved, and it's very rare for I started to get this crushing anxiety as to how this murder happened in the best possible way. Oh yeah. Yeah, you're in it. Yeah, like I was in it. But like, I've seen so many of these movies. Of course we want to know how it went down, but I don't know why, but I was in this emotive state, and it only takes like 15 minutes from when the death happens to the end of the movie. Yeah, yeah, where I'm sitting there and I go, how did this fucking happen? Who did this? And and I'm on the edge of my seat. Yes. And then I'm watching it. And then, you know, without giving it away, like, you know, we find things out. But then I love that it's not until the very end when the character or this happens for real people is like, they they don't remember things. It's a fugue state. You can literally go into a state when you do something. And then maybe now, a day later, you're in like a police interrogation room and he's trying to and you're like, what are you talking about? But then, yeah, you get a little moment of silence, maybe in a prison cell, and now all you can do is thinking it's like, oh, fuck, I did do that. And it's, and it it translates. You get it? I, I don't feel like it as an audience member. You look at that as a cop out or, you know, just sort of like, man, this is crazy. Very much enjoyed this. And yeah, the entire time I'm like, I can't believe that this motherfucker did this, like, this is such a nothing little tiny thing that has no, no business being here. And yet it is. And yet there's there's stuff to value. And she's great. The cast, her. She's the manager of the KFC. Her like a McDonald's. I think right in town. It it is very good. It's a very satisfying murder mystery. That's like just a little longer than, like an episode of Dateline or like or honestly a little shorter that one. So I and yeah, I love that he does this stuff that he does these experiments, whether they work for you or not, that is a different story because because next 2006, the good German comes out. And this, honestly, when he was prepping this and when it was going to be released, he was talking it up like, yeah, it's an homage to Casablanca and what we did. This is actually really cool for nerds like me. They tried to rely on the same filming equipment and filming style of a 1940s American movie. So the lighting is very specific. You know, you get the backdrops. It's almost entirely shot on a stage. The sound talking about mono sound and just the way it looks and the way that it is behaved. They went to great lengths to do this, to try to replicate the look and feel of a war torn romantic thriller from the 40s in America, not unlike Casablanca, with one major exception Casablanca and every American film of that era had to adhere to the production code so you could absolutely not have things like sex or language. He does that. He allows himself to go hard or in the good German and have violence, sex and language. So the idea is, what is bogie and Bergman were saying? Like saying how we all actually feel like, what the fuck are you talking about? You know, stuff like that. And the movie The Good German, very cool set up, very interesting idea. It's a it's an hour and five minutes long and I'm like, what the fuck are you all talking about? What's going on? Like, it gets so unnecessarily complicated to me and it just loses itself and plot and stuff. So not a very good experiment. Not the best movie to me, but I still love that he tried it. I, I this was the calling card to the very beginning of the POV, where I had to tell you something. I loved every single thing you just mentioned. I think that that's exactly what I appreciated in the 20 minutes that I watch this, because, Brother Man, I had to turn this off. Why? I hate that I'm about to say this because I don't think this is this is not nice, but it is a realization that I've had that I've always felt. But now I just realized. I can't stand Tobey Maguire. We talked about this, though. If you go to hell, I would do five more minutes. It wouldn't have been an issue anymore. Spoiler alert. Oh, he dies at all? Yes. I fucking told you that in person. Oh, I couldn't even get there. I couldn't even get there. You said I fucking hate Tobey Maguire. And I said, you won't even have to deal with him as long as you had to deal with him in Babylon. Like he's. He will be out soon. It's not that big of a spoiler, but he will be gone if you would. It's literally like a 25 minute mark. Well, Jesus Christ, but I'm not that mad because it's it doesn't go like it's just not even he would say it's it's not it. It's not a satisfactory watch all the way again, I liked it. He tried it. But you can't. You got to listen to me. I take I will take it. I gotta listen, you said I did, I forgot, but you know what? It's all good because I got to rewatch something better. Did you bail to watch another Soderbergh movie? That's good. Yes, as a matter of fact, I did all that I needed to rewatch because I was sort of like, you know what? I can't do it with this guy. And so I'm moving on to, something that I want to see, and I'm not gonna have enough time if I don't. So I was like, this is it. So, Babylon, you can take him in because he's, like, weird. I liked him in Babylon. Yeah. Okay. Yes, I it's not it's not a matter. I he's not I mean, I don't like to shit on actors because I don't, I just don't I, because I just, I value the craft too much, but, you know, just like anything, like, there are just certain people that, like, we just not they don't our cup of tea and, but yeah, I mean, hey, I am allergic to a lot of actors that I just kind of have to tolerate. And I always hope for the best, but I'm like, I don't get what you all get. Like, I don't get it. So I understand what you're saying, and, you know, and we're all like that, though, and there's reasons as to why like the it's the it's the reasons why, you know, like, you know, sometimes people remind us of people that we like where like, bullied us when we were younger. Like there's all sorts of reasons why we just inherently just kind of get a weird sort. I'm allergic to this person. And actors, unfortunately, because they are, they are displayed for us in TV and movies. We will inherently just not likes watching certain actors because of just like the like the most shallow of reasons. They remind me of my ex. They remind me of this. I don't like this. Watching this person, they slap someone on the Oscar stage, you know? I mean, whatever the reason or whatever, they do something like that. But I've always had a little bit of a thing with him that I've always tried to kind of forgive. And then for whatever reason, today was like the the thing where I was like, I can't deny it. I can't fight it, even though I've said it before. But today was like, I was like, I'm not, I'm not doing this with, with him. And, and so I turned it off. But I did like him in Babylon. Quite. Okay. Okay, here's a cool fact. Not cool fact. Here's a weird fact about the good German doesn't really have much to do with the film. It was nominated for one Oscar Best Score. Thomas Newman, who still has not won and has like almost 20 nominations. Poor guy. Get this. And that was the last time a movie directed by Steven Soderbergh was nominated for an Oscar. 2006. And that's kind of crazy of movies. That's nuts. What's coming up? That was not nominated in any sort of way? That's crazy. Yeah, it really is speaking. Okay. So all right. So yeah, I get it. I'll give you a good German pass. You are a bad German that day. I think he wants like, a miracle, but he wants to save face a little bit. So he gives studios and the people what they want. And he makes Ocean's 13, which I think a lot of people wanted Ocean's 12 to be. Here's Ocean's 13, to me, is definitely, like, the most conventional of the three. It's it feels the most like plot heavy. You know, you got like the arch villain Pacino in everything. Also, though, an insanely rewatchable movie like, I love putting this movie on right before we recorded our Ocean's 12 commentary. This is like on AMC or something. We just had it on it. We got completely locked in it, like finished it. Yeah. And then we had recorded the commentary. I yeah, I it's never a bad time to put this one on either. I should say. I bought a 4K pack of 11, 12 and 13. They all look gorgeous. So very worth it. I was saving them for this episode and they look great. I believe I've said this every single time we've talked, but I must have said it on the Ocean's 12 commentary. But I do believe that the Steven Soderbergh Ocean's movies are the best trilogy to watch. When you are sick, when you're sick. I don't think you've ever said that. All right, I like it. Oh, well, I'm saying it for the first time now. Yeah. When you're sick, there's nothing better to put on because it's impossible to not feel good when you're watching any one of these movies. They're just fun. They're easy. You're charmed. You're. You're on the edge of, like, this fun. They're just the best time. Mine would be Days of Wine and Roses, Leaving Las Vegas and shame, little addiction trio there. Boom boom boom. Why are you sick? Because it's very sick for a hangover. Yep. Probably. So you're going to watch. I'm going to make you watch. Oh add let's throw on the way back. Let's keep it booze. So we'll do the wait. Let's keep it booze is throwing the hustler while you're at it. Days of wine and roses. Now that's not. Oh, God. That's such a great film. Just rewatch it, folks. The hustler double feature The Hustler, followed by the color money. Back. All right, Ocean's 13. Great film. Now we come to whether or not you've seen them. This these two films are the undisputed turning point of Steven Soderbergh's career, because he put everything he had into honoring a story of revolutionary Che Guevara on film. And it was something that Benicio, this is all Benicio del Toro doing. He was trying to find a director for ages. He had been. This was like his magnum opus. He wanted to do this. He wanted directed, but he knew he wanted to play him. They start talking about this when they're making traffic, so it goes to a few different directors. It reaches Soderbergh. Che is. It's massive. He decides the story is so big he's splitting it into two parts, which he considers two distinctly different films. Part one is called The Argentine. Part two is called guerrilla. I had seen these movies twice. I saw it in the theater in the roadshow presentation, which bombed and no one went to, sadly. And then I saw it when I was doing my Soderbergh blog, probably like in 2012, and that was it. And I bought the criterion for this, which has both films, and I'm sitting there watching it going, man, this is I'm part of the problem here, because when I saw it like, they're not bad movies at all, but I went, they're so big and like, they're kind of slow and parts and they're like biopic. This is my 2008 thinking this just I'm watching this in 2025 going, these things are fucking masterpieces, man. I can't believe we all just turned our back on. It's like, I can't believe it. And we'll get to how we feel about the movies. But when he realized that no one gave a shit, audiences did not give a shit. Critics did not give a shit. The Oscars did not give a shit that no one cared about. Che. That's. It's right after this movie that he announces his retirement, which we'll get to. But dude, I was watching the special features for che that are like while they're editing the movie. And he says point blank, I just don't know what people expect out of movies anymore. It doesn't seem like people are going to be like into this. And he's already like down on it already. But I, I have such a newfound appreciation for these movies, part one and part two, but I know you hadn't seen it. What did you think of che? In some ways, the my view on it was, I don't think he's ever made better cinema than these. In in some respects I do understand like particularly the second one I even wrote down, I, I got lost. There's so much confusion and misdirection and people turning on, on each other within their own camps and all of this sort of stuff that I was like, I think maybe even lost in just some of the movement of this is okay, because that's kind of the point of this whole entire second part is that, like this guerrilla warfare is aimless between both of these movies, part one and part two, however you want to call them. To me, the first part of this man's life and in this story is the story of the triumphs of mankind, of what it can achieve for the right reasons. And part two is the necessary failure of mankind. He got too big. Yeah, he got too big. And and but his heart was in the right place. I love that he says that there's other parts of of Latin America that need the revolution, the revolution that we brought to Cuba. And we change and we made them. I've made this a better place for our people. We can do this elsewhere. And sometimes he can't. Well, yeah, because he just decides, hey, I'm just going to invade Bolivia like this worked in Cuba. We did it with the Battle of Santa Clara, which is how part one ends. Truly one of the best things Steven Soderbergh is ever photographed or put on film. It is. It's amazing. If anyone had seen The Battle of Algiers, that was his big template. And he does. I mean, it is. So you would know the score for that because Tarantino reuse it in Inglourious Basterds, does it? Don't don't. It's very, very famous. Score me on the plane underneath here. But it's there. And just like on the ground and following them, you get their flanking, you get pounding through the wall. It's like I just keep going, going. And they're digging. And yeah, it worked it cool. You brought the revolution to Cuba. You did it. Freedom, he says right there. He's like this. This isn't over. Like you have to allow me to go on to other countries. Yeah. And he tries another country, Bolivia. And it just didn't work because he's a dude with just not enough supplies, not enough people invading a country. But yes, his his in my opinion, his heart was in the right place because he's seeing like all the poor people around and he's going like this, these people's I want like everyone to be living equally and stuff. And yeah, he truly bit off more than you can chew and got the attention of the American government. Never really a good sign. And they're like, yeah, we don't really necessarily want one guy like going to each of these countries and overthrowing them like that may not be good for world politics, but see, it's interesting you say that the second one lost you. And the first time I saw these, they lost me too, because the first one is pretty out of order. Like they're shooting at he. He addresses the U.N. so yeah, that and you're meeting his family and it's all like crazy. And the scope is big. Oppenheimer. And we're really getting. Yeah, yeah, it is. It very much is. And I think most tellingly, they shot that second. They shot part two first, because part two is a straight linear story of where in these Bolivian woods trying to very slowly and, you know, if you're familiar with your history, unsuccessfully overthrow Bolivia. And so they did that first shot it. It was very difficult. Soderbergh said, oh my God. It like it was just it was so, so tough. I can't imagine he's driving away and it hits him. He goes, oh my God, I have to go make the harder one now. And he did. And he went off and made part one. And Soderbergh does not talk about his personal life a lot, his own emotions or anything. I genuinely think he's almost killed him because he put everything he had into it the shoot, the time he had to shoot these, each each movie was 39 days. Are you fucking kidding me like that? That's storming of the Battle of Saint Clara. Kubrick would have spent like, 40 days on it if he could. Yeah, like it's crazy. And using the red camera for the first time, it was so loud it would overheat. They had to put, like, ice on it. You're just you're using this brand new technology and they really play. It's like these two. Marvelous. 02I think a complicated figure. And, if the only thing you know about che is that his face became known for being on t shirts and on the poster like, yeah, go watch this stuff. It's really interesting. It paints, I think, a very fair portrait of him, and they're very well-made movies. And it I think that it almost killed him making it. And when he could not find an appropriate distributor, I just think he went, I'm done. Like I'm done. I don't know what people want. I don't know what studios want. I'm retiring. This is so masterful that even for Soderbergh at that time, I go, this doesn't even feel like a Soderbergh movie. It I totally agree, I totally agree, yeah. And and I don't even know how to explain what that means, but it just does. Not in a in not in a bad way at all. But it's sort of like he's he seems like he's challenging himself to a certain point of filmmaking, that it's not that he can't achieve it, but it's it certainly felt like he was he was going for something here. And, and not getting that return. I don't blame him. I know I could never even begin to do something like this. Like, I like shooting these war scenes in these jungles, thinking about literally like, how do you set up crafty here? How exactly? Like. Like it's like little things like this. And then you realize that for as crazy, that base basically for 80 days, for the most part you're shooting in these conditions. Yeah. And you're just running and gunning and getting all this stuff done. Exactly. Kubrick would've had 40 days on one of those scenes, and yet he's doing it all. I can imagine the disappointment that you must have as the artist when you put everything into this, because what does come through by the time you get to part two is, I think my summation of it is like this the story of the triumph of mankind, what it can do to benefit itself, and then the failure of it. That's a very, very big, ambitious point to try to get across. And he does. He gets that. Yeah. You feel that in both movies. And I think that's why the second one feels the way it does. Because you really feel the failure. It's a decline the whole way. I just kept writing it. It's from the beginning. Yeah, from the get go, like I go I broke down, everything's falling apart like this is not going well and it just continues to go that way. And, so it sucks that that's kind of where his line kind of came. But you know what if it did, it did. It was his biggest scope since traffic. Yeah. And it's a scope that he hasn't even attempted to match since. And when we say it doesn't, it's just so big. It doesn't feel like a movie of his because it's so big and it's moving and it's. And I don't know if people haven't seen these. I know it's kind of intimidating, but, you know, the first one is an hour and two hours and 12 minutes. The second one is two hours and 15 minutes. So we're not like four hours each, but I block off a sun. I blocked off a Sunday and watched them both and was just completely moved and transfixed in the way I even the maps in the beginning, I'm like, oh, I got this. Like he's really pulling you in. It's like slowly, like, okay, get on my wavelength here. But I, you know, I still have a lot more watching to do these both of these movies have commentaries, not by him but by a historian. So I want to watch those. I just didn't have time for this. I did get to watch some special features on the the disc, and they're just they're remarkable. You don't know how he did it. I don't think he knows how he did it. Yeah. And I think if he redid this now, like if he was really compelled to, he would be like 100 days minimum to never film that and that short of time. But to breeze right over Steven Soderbergh's Che feels a bit criminal. But I give it my highest recommendation. I really like these movies, and Benicio Del Toro is like just an old timer. Good. No one mentions this movie. It's like one of the all time great biopics, but man, he is so committed and he's flawless. I gave my highest compliment in my notes to this is in terms of a biopic, even though this is split up into two movies. So I mean, fans factor that into the compliment, but I do believe that my favorite feature length biopic is Malcolm X, and part of the reason why is because that movie, when you move to those different areas of his life, like we talked about on that deep dive, it does not feel like they're rushed, it does not feel and they feel so real and lived in. So you really do feel a life lived by it, by this individual, even though we've captured it all in a less than three hour story. It's my biggest issue with biopics is like it's impossible to condense a life lived into of hours, but Malcolm X does such a great job of it. I felt that way with this. I was like, this is actually getting to the core and the different phases of like when he first found out when he was talking to Fidel Castro in that apartment, to the first day in the jungle, starting this thing that no one had ever done with Guerrilla Warfare two, what happens to him at the very end of the second one? Like you? Every one of these arrows, these chunks of time and these decisions that he's made, the people who are there, I felt every one of them. So there I that that's the biggest compliment I can give is like it felt like a biopic that represented that person's life. Well yeah. It really did like it was it was a fair and balanced portrait. And, you know, not going to get any argument for me on the Malcolm X thing. That's that, that's I think that's the greatest movie ever made about a real life person. I think. So, yeah. I agree, I mean, it's no, it's no, a complete unknown, but, you know, it's nothing. I didn't hate that movie. I know, but it wasn't about about a whole person's life. No, it wasn't, it was about. I, I love that's why I loved it, man. It's that's how biopics need to be. Unless you plan on making a say or you plan on making Malcolm X, then just put a time stamp on how much you're doing. The reason why Malcolm X is so good is that Denzel Washington was in it for greatness, and he doesn't like to talks like that a lot. That's right. But he was in it for greatness. You know, a SAG award would not mean that that he's great. But that's what he's in it for. And that's why that movie's so good to me. You would think that you would think that we would be jumping right to the retirement phase of his career, but we're not. We still have two more movies to go that were already planned before he announced his retirement, and the first one released in the summer of 2009, is exactly why I love Steven Soderbergh, because he makes a movie about a high class prostitute in Manhattan starring at the time one of the world's most famous real life porn stars. He calls the movie The Girlfriend Experience, and this movie does not feature a single sex scene. Yeah, love him for that. It's the same. It's the same thing with Full Frontal. There's no duty that there's no sex in sex. Lies that you, you know, see and girlfriend experience is another really small Steven Soderbergh experiment. He shot it with adult star Sasha Gray. It was written by Brian Koppelman and David Levine, who wrote, they created billions. They wrote, Ocean's 13, like they're famous screenwriting pair and I it's just I really like it. I love the style of it. It's so sleek and smooth and the music, it just carries you through. And again, if you're this, this goes in with Full Frontal Bubble, The Girlfriend Experience. Very, these are experiments. Yeah. Steven Soderbergh experiments, but he likes it. Good. I did, and I also thought this was the most beautiful of all of these smaller, tiny little experiment ones. The, deep reds and these very, like, sexy oranges. Like these almost like gold ish sort of things. But they're all these deeper colors to, to represent the eroticism and the appeal to all of this, but then also like the starkness of it all. And I also thought Sasha Gray for not being, you know, an actor, I really, really love the journal entry voiceovers. Same way that she has a conversation. It's with her clients. It's very sweet. It's very giving, but it's also genuine. It's not like she's showing up here and just, you know, that she. There's some real human connection being made here, which is, of course, what these gentlemen are paying for. But at the same time, to see it represented the way it was, was I think the movie needs that. Like, you need to kind of get like, this is actually the reality of this world, man, that end fight and that one shot with her and her boyfriend, she is so fucking cold. Oh yeah. Yeah. And it is so good I hate it I it got me all fired up I, I was, I was all I was like watching. I was sitting on my floor and I remember in the middle of the fight I was like getting up and I was pacing around like a boxer. I, I was like, oh, God. You know, and because it's just, it's it's just very, very real. So yes, I was a big fan of this. And whoever that asshole was that played the Q-Tip guy, the that actor, he did a great job. He did, he did, I did. Yeah, I like her. I like her in it. She does a commentary with Soderbergh on the Blu ray. It's a lot of fun to listen to. She very clearly knows her movies and knew her movies going into it. And I also agree that it looks gorgeous, like I love the blues as well. Yeah, they kind of live. Yeah, they live in this like dark blue. And I've mentioned this so much in the podcast over the last five years that, you know, so Soderbergh is shooting these things himself under the pseudonym Peter Andrews and, hopefully editing them as well under the pseudonym Mary Ann Bernard. Those are both of his parents. And he does that often. He also has him as a writer. He's written a few screenplays. I'm so glad you took the time to check this one out because, again, very small. But I do think I agree that this is the best looking of the bunch. Yeah, it's just fun. Like again, 77 minutes like that. This is not Saint Che, it's just that I think that should become this should become one of the new. What do you what are you watching? Slogans. Listen, it's not che. Movie I love that, I love that, but that makes it sound like it sucks. That is awesome. It's just. No, but that's what I mean. Because. Because. Listen, listen, we should make this the effort. Now, listen. We are the best podcast going today for movies. All right? So let's just throw that out there and call it what it is. Let's just say it. So if no one is going to represent Shea then damn it for Steven Soderbergh, we are going to let him know through this podcast that che will not go silenced. We are bringing that up. Listen, we're not talking about che. Yeah, but we can't say it's not che. Yeah, exactly. That that makes it sound bad. No, because nothing could be as good as che. Oh, I understand now I see. Yeah. It's not well. Hey, it's no che. Yes, exactly. Then we got, it's like how we che okay. It's not like how we say about high life. So now I piss people off. Yeah. Talking about a movie that didn't work for us. Us? Wow. Jesus Christ. Okay. We've been talking a lot about Soderbergh's humor. You want to see? Got to, like, look to these weird things like get topless or, you know, always listen to his commentaries. Or you could just fire up another, based on a true story movie called The Informant about this fucking joker, Mark Whitaker. Just, like, literally heat up all, like, made up lies on top of lies and lies and lies working for very big, you know, I guess food companies, of course. And then. Fine. Yeah. And then finally got, you know, everything caught up with him. But Matt Damon plays Mark Whitaker to perfection. This absolute should have been nominated for an Oscar. It's ridiculous. Said he was. Yeah. But what I always say about this film, which is absolutely hilarious and which casts, comedians and, you know, like serious parts. It's like it's the genius bit of casting. He keeps doing that. This also is low key, one of the best depictions of bipolar disorder you are ever going to see. And it it's not the bipolar where you throw shit around and break shit and do that. It's not. It's a different kind. And when the movie ended, I was like, oh my God, he's extremely mentally ill. Rich? Yes. Smart. Yes. You know, very capable. And so imagine if you put all this energy into honest shit, like get back to what he would have got done. But he puts it into this and it's, it's just a hilarious satire about business, about I love it and I know was this another first time? Oh, no, I know I had seen this one before. Oh. You had. Okay, good, good. Yeah. This is, I, I also love that Matt Damon has talked about this movie. I believe he brought this up on Hot Ones of all things, and he loves it. I think it's his favorite performance. That's what he said. He was, like, completely committing to it, but he. Yeah, he he did reference this one with a certain amount of love that that you could really tell that this meant a lot to him. And it absolutely shows he's having so much fun. But at the same time, what I love about the performance is that while it's operating in this over-the-top of crazy way and the movie feels light, it's a light hearted movie, very, very. Yeah, but but when you also realize exactly what you're talking about, like this very real, you know, pathological liar, bipolar, all of this the biggest credit that I can give this movie is the landing that it makes at the very end with Scott Bakula. Oh my God, if you don't land that, I don't know. Like, it's not one of those things where I feel like you can go into that day of shooting and be like, all right, listen, if we don't fucking make this work and the whole movie doesn't work, I don't think you can actually direct like that. I think there is sort of like a known discovery that must happen where it's like, this is just the truth and the way, and this is the way that I perceived it would've been when Matt Damon's character, as Mark Whitaker says, he's basically confronted with, he cannot go any further along the road. He's been going down. He has got point blank evidence that puts him in the lie that he cannot find a way out of everyone around him is being like, just stop now. And the way that he just accepts that. But for a while, like, you can see his eyes like he's, rambling. Dude, I've rewound this like six times because the way that his own voiceover is feeding him, like, yes. And then he's trite and then he's trying to stutter them out and like, well, no, you got to call this. And they're like, we did. Yeah. And everything. And they're keep going. And then very faintly the voiceover goes, I don't know. And it like, does it. There's no more lines. It's all done. I also want to say that I've gotten chills twice since we've been recording this. And one is now and the other was for Solaris. Oh yeah, I got I got goosebumps during that. Yeah la Solaris. So I love it. But yeah like just knowing that you like picked up on that too. Like I, I love that the feeding of the lies and then even your own inner voice, it's like, I don't know, we're caught. And then you just, you know, eat. Well, I guess I need help. Yeah, that's exactly it. Yeah. It's like, well, and the way that he says that too, is actually, even though it does have a bit of that humor, it does to me. That sounded like the first bit of honesty you'd heard from that character the whole movie. Yeah. And so I really, really like, like this one a lot. One of the most, I think when people talk about voiceover for movies because, because this movie would not work without the voiceover and the voiceover doesn't do anything for he's just telling these little anecdotes. That's it. That's a lot of non-sequiturs that don't have anything to do with anything, with anything you need that you have to have it. Yeah. Because everything else out of his mouth in the in the real world plot is all lies for the most part. I mean, 99% of everything he's saying is lying. And in the voiceover, there is no acknowledgment of what he's doing. These are just little things like, I mean, I wrote down, I can like, I like my hands. I think they're my favorite part of my body. And yeah, I could see us fishing, whatever, you know, like like things like that. So. But without these. Because if this is where his head space is, you know, his lies mean nothing. They're just they're just like these things that he just cannot help himself from doing. But this is what's going on in his head. And they're relatively humorous and they're very, harmless because he is a harmless guy. He's just causing a lot of harm. It's it's a real, real fascinating depiction of this type of thing and done in a very cool way. And I love your favorite word. I love the creaminess of the licorice is not my favorite word. What you fuck? Yes, you said that one time and I lost it on the I say it all the time, but I mean when the focus is, yeah, out of focus, that's what I'm talking about. There's a creaminess in the orange sherbet of, like, the look of the movie sherbet. It's corn. God damn it. No one in the movie looks like it looks for sherbet. That's the orange of the movie. It is the whole thing. It's just baked in this orange, and it's. It's in it and it's a creamy or it's like orange cream soda corn. I'm so glad. Yeah, you like this one. And I really think, Damon, I think he was nominated for supporting this year for Invictus. But he also should have gotten the double nominee, should have gotten the 2009 Best actor nominee for this because he's great. And this marks the end of phase two of Soderbergh's career. It's gone high, it's gone low, and the industry has let him down. And beginning in 2011, he says, I have five films, count them five and I am out. You are not going to see me directing movies. Well, I do TV. I don't know, will I maybe just be a cinematographer? Maybe. Well, I just be an editor. Maybe that's it. I got five movies. Steven Soderbergh got five movies. Fuck this. I'm out. And the first up, two types of people, folks. It's two types of people in this world. In 2020, we got some news. There's this bug going around, this virus, and we all have to stay inside and put on masks. And as soon as this shit started going down, some of us were like, I am never watching the Steven Soderbergh film contagion again for the rest of my life. And others like me put it on immediately. As soon as the news of the coronavirus broke out, I put on Steven Soderbergh's Contagion, just as I did a couple weeks ago for this episode. And wow, do I love this movie. Always have. I think it is so well put together and this is really this is going back to like, his, 70s disaster movie like that. That was what he was trying to do and trying to it basically he had a rule for himself where it was after after we introduce every character. So whenever that's done, like 20 minutes in or something, we're not going to introduce any more major characters, we're just going to stick with them. My final point I haven't really gotten a chance to mention yet, but Soderbergh, via editing, will often end his movies with something like that makes everything click together. I don't think that's any better realized here when we really when we literally see, like one of the last things we see is day one, how this actually began. And yeah, contagion. Great film, great film, the editing that you're talking about. I even wrote down the very first note timestamps, population, contracts, the music, the moving of everything is it's so intentional. And it's it's also that thriller feeling. The soundtrack of it is just like it. You are instilled with that danger and, and there's just something to his cinematography that you just feel and all of it, and it's all alive in this movie. This was a very weird one for me to watch, because coming out of my experience and Covid and then being here with this, triggering at times, I had to take a couple breaks. But at the same time, it was really wild to actually see how accurate it got. Yeah. Like we didn't get to the level where it gets to in this movie where there's people like, you know, like body bags on the street and we're not like, you know, but I mean, thank God it was as real as the experience as I think you could have put together. And I remember watching this movie back in like 2015, I think when I first saw it and I thought to myself, I don't know how this would go if this was ever to happen, but surely it probably couldn't get to this type of level. And yet, like, it's a real thing that it actually did. And, one of my absolute favorite performances I, I love Kate Winslet in this movie. I think she is, absolute fucking winner. Oh, dude, I love her so much in this. Even what I love about, like, certain scientists and movies is there. There's there's no denial in the complete like just the acceptance when she wakes up and she's just thinking about, I need the like the names of anyone who's clean this room. And I mean, that's devastating when we're in black and we hear the cough, the dreaded cough, and then it cuts and it's heard, you're like, no one's safe. Like no one's safe. And yeah, the similarities to what we face in Covid are startling. It gets way more, it gets bigger and contagion way bigger. Like public body count. But yeah, a lot of similarities. And the most fascinating part of what ended up happening in real life that was depicted in the movie. And because when I first saw this back in 2015, because there's a lot of different parts, there's like you're following a lot of different narratives throughout the movie, but the one that interested me the least back in 2015, because I just didn't think it was necessary, was Jude Law and and I love Jude. I love Jude Law. He's like, he's one of my guys. It wasn't his acting by any means, but it was just that part of the story. I was like, I don't know if we need this guy talking about like these conspiracies about this not being real or this not being that or blah, blah, blah. And yet when you come to find that in real life, when this happened in 2020, that still to this day, that is the thing that has stood longer than the goddamn fucking disease is. Yeah. The is the belief or not belief. The the the conspiratorial idea behind it all. Whose benefit fit in who all of that that that was now, to me, the most interesting part of this rewatch was like, Holy shit, this is exactly. And what I've realized is, is like, this is what we fucking do as humans. We will never get better. Like, we are just the worst. We will always find some sort of way to twist or turn at our own benefit or other people's misfortune. It just doesn't matter. We'll find a way to do it. And it sucks. Yeah. I mean, what is he hawking in it for? Forsythia? Is that not, like, kind of similar to what, like ivermectin became in Covid? Like it's all. Yeah, exactly. It's a yeah. No, it's he's so good and in the teeth like the way it's teeth are all jacked up. And I love Eric Gwyneth it's great. This like it's a David you know. All right. Can I talk to her. And then the one thing that I guess if you really wanted to compare and do all this is that, like, they got that vaccine out pretty fast. Very true. And I was like, we took a little bit longer. It's because my lady, God, I love her. Doctor Ali might not be the last time we hear about her. God, I love her in that movie. She's my favorite performance. Jennifer Ealy in that film, out of all the famous people, the doctor figures out the vaccination. I love her performance in that. The wow out of everyone. Everyone the way. Oh my God, I cannot tell you. Like, one of the things I love most about that movie too, is that I work and work for the government, but I work alongside them and every type of personality is represented there, like the kind of fumbling guy that picks Kate Winslet up. Well, do you want to go check in, though, to know like that some, you know, that guy, the ice cold woman would. Caitlin's like giving that like, briefing. And she's like, we touch our face. How many times I know, I know people like that. Oh my God. And then the way the smartest person in the room or on the call, in this case, Doctor Ali, has to constantly dumb themselves down and pretend like they aren't the smartest person in the room when they know they are and they're just grilling her about, well, can't we do this? That? And she's like, waiting for her turn to speak, waiting. And they're taking forever to wrap up their point. And she goes, no. And it steps away. I'm like, yes, yes, I know who that person is. And you know, like the even the Thanksgiving thing, like I had a good Thanksgiving too. And she goes, oh, like she meant to ask. Yeah, I it is the most humane performance in the movie. I'm so in love with that performance. I love Jennifer Ealy in general, but I mean Damon Couture, Fishburne, Jude Law, Paltrow, Winslet, it's still Jennifer Ealy in that film. Just to me. Just to me. That's awesome, I love that. Thanks, man. Yeah, man. Okay. Well, here's. Yeah. Contagion 2011. He's got another one lined up. Oh, and he says he goes, you know what? I'm going to release my nasty little mean, lean spy thriller haywire. Haywire it actually it premiered in 2011 at some festivals, but he dropped this in January 2012. And I'm going, all right, it's Soderbergh January movie. Let's go. And of all the movies we're talking about today and all the movies in his filmography, this is probably the one that people will disagree with me on the most because, oh, her acting is flood. Oh, it's weak to have the narrative story of, like, she's telling everything to like this kid in the car like it's lazy. It's all this and that. Okay, sure. But all that thing I just talked about was like, the way the government speak. Well, it is, it's perfect. In this movie, the way you and McGregor talks, it is flawless. And because I work next to it, I love when movies get it right. So yeah. Are you going to make, to the exception clause are. All right. I'll go back and remove the clause. I'll free her up. Just all this rat a tat tat. So what do people disagree with me on the most? I fucking love haywire. I love this movie. And low key, certainly the past, oh, five years, let's say by far my most rewatched Soderbergh movie. I put this thing on all the time. All the time. I love it, I know everything about it. I love it bad, fat. Oh, bad. Just like, the fight with Fassbinder's Jesus Christ, it's so good. Oh, oh, it's so good. Michael Douglas like, a bit like offering her job because she's so good. Yeah, I love it. No. And, I, I have to agree. I, I mean, yes, I do give that validity to she is a little flat in her acting and the sure the narrative to the guy in the car. But I'll tell you this, I actually have a bigger issue coming up with the movie that, that because some things like this. But here's the thing, though, this movie is not meant to be that and that, and that's like the whole entire point is that he's making a very his version of a very cool, badass, action martial arts type movie, espionage, all the things that Soderbergh likes. He loves this shit. Yeah. Loves heists. He loves, political like the, like the inner workings of this. He loves the crime. And then. But he's never done action. Not like this. So this was his experiment of putting in all those things that he loves into all of it. And what you get. And I don't even like that I'm using this word because I think it's doing a disservice. But you're getting a serviceable movie in that genre. But it's much more than that. It's it's awesome. It's really, really good. So I, I agree and disagree with the, flack that this movie gets because if we were watching a movie that depended itself on having a quality actor that needed to be in that role, well, then then he would have cast that. He's not an idiot. He knew that this did not need to be that, but because it's easier to train a, professional fighter to be decent enough at acting than to try to teach a good actor how to be decent at that. Fighting. Guys, this is a fun action spy flick. That's. Yeah, it ain't supposed to be perfect. It's supposed to be fun and, like, mixing it up, and that's. That's always been my argument for it. That's what he was trying to make. He released in January. This is not Oscar fare. And yeah, she okay. Find me a better actress than Gina Carano. That's very easy. Find me a better badass than her. Good fucking luck. Let me put it. You know, so that's what he cared about. And. Oh, man, I just love. And. Oh, Paxton is the dad. Oh, come on, come on, forget about it. And that's very true because the one the hardest quality that you can get in that lead is to believe that she is this dangerous. Hired. Whatever. Not an assassin, but she's she's one of those. She's a fixer that needs to, you know, do all this type of stuff, and and you need to believe that that person's capable of doing all this, and that's what you believe. And one of the things that I love this and this is something that they did before John Wick. Okay, everyone getting high intense action fight choreography done in big single shots where you actually see the action and the martial arts before you're cutting and giving a million cuts. No offense, Jason Bourne. We all love the Bourne movies, but I mean, you're doing a million cuts a second with those things. And here and in John Wick, you getting these long, sometimes even one take until a long time before we cut and we're seeing a beginning, middle and end to a whole entire martial arts sequence before we move on to the next. Yeah, that's my main selling point. You're not going to see fighting like this, especially pre John Wick. It was all I mean Matt Damon is is is his boy. But he said this is like the anti Bourne. This is the anti taken. We're not chopping these up I want the camera to just sit back and watch these fights. There are some cuts but it is very few cuts. And yeah for the most part you are watching people convincingly beat each other's asses. Yeah that's why I love it. Yeah I really I really, really like this movie. It is flawed, sure, but I don't think he was going for some grand masterpiece. And you get the first time that him and Channing Tatum are going to work together might be important. All the killings, all the violence in the film is very good, very well done. And your boy Fassie, oh my God, I mean, Jesus Christ, the just the whole way he's playing it. And, you know, to pretend to be a couple and then the checking of the phones and as soon as they get back, just beating the shit out of each other. And I had to I had the movie on and I was like, Ali, come here. Like she walked in and she went, oh God damn, this is like, they know what they're doing. There's no like, I don't even know if he was using a stunt performer. He learned how to do all of it and they were beating the hell out of each other. I've heard of both two interviews. They were just beating the shit out of each other. And you can tell. Oh, that's great. Fucking love. Haywire. Thank you so much. Same writers, The limey, Liam Dobbs. Believe it or not, I could see it. I could see I can feel that similarity in that. Yeah, but folks, go back to episode 39. Got to go a few years back here. And what are you watching in episode 39 all the way back? We prioritize this one, didn't we? We covered deep Dive on a movie that Nick would not watch, and I made him watch. And I'm like, you got to do it. Everyone has to sit down and stop prejudging the masterpiece that is magic Mike and just let it unfold and behold it and that. Oh, and I, I need to quickly interject. The informant is the last Steven Soderbergh commentary on a DVD or Blu ray. God, what I would give for a Channing Tatum Steven Soderbergh commentary on magic Mike. Like, come on, but we're not going to get it. That's a shame. But this is a movie we've talked about a lot. We both love it. And I will rep magic Mike forever. I love this film, and it made him and Channing Tatum filthy rich because no one believed in the movie$7 million budget and made 167 worldwide. Whoa. And all as a dirty little trick. Dirty little trick. But it doesn't matter. You get the people in the seats. They're in the seats. Yeah, but I agree with you. And as anyone knows, I don't I there's no movie that I have. Shameless, shameless. I will stand up for this movie in, in any given situation, and I will not back down, magic Mike Fox. All right, this movie is awesome. And anyone who wants to come at me, then bring it on. You go for it. Good luck. Because you're. I'm not backing down. This hill is here, and I've claimed it. It's magic Mike's hill, all three of them. Goddamn it. But this first one. And if anything, I would actually say that I think magic Mike might be the only one, since Soderbergh kind of gives you that. Fuck you. I'm out. I'm not. I'm not really. Yeah. Emotionally invested. I don't really have anything really to say. I do feel that there is some bit of that old Soderbergh in Magic Mike, just a little bit. There is something that he's trying to do here that I do feel there's a personalized thing, but maybe that's Channing, though, because this is kind of based off of his, you know, previous life. And, so maybe that's what's coming through, I don't know. But either way, go listen to that episode where we do the deep dive on here, because this is an amazing movie that everyone who's never seen it, you don't know what it is until you're actually watching it, and it's going to be worth your time. Yeah. And it is. What I tell a lot of people is that it is an art film, and it is way more arty than you think it is. Go to the sequel if you want what you thought magic Mike was going to be. But yeah, and just obviously never a bad time to put this movie on. It was such a joy to rewatch for this McConaughey. It's just fire in a way. Our dog, Riley Keough, seeing her as early as possible, just absolutely stunning and great right out of the gate. And yeah, this is, you got to wonder if this maybe helped change his mind a little bit about retiring because they didn't. I bet he thought of all five of the movies he had before retiring. This would be the least successful and this would be the one that they like, make fun of. And it was a monster hit, you know, when you for scale because it's only $7 million movie and they put in their own money. That's the thing they were that they put in their own money. So they were, rewarded by everyone going to see it. But yes, we've talked a lot about magic Mike episode 39. Boy, did we love it. Next up. Fantastic. Like going back again to the 70s like paranoid. Now we got like a drug thriller. There's some deception, side effects, a great kind of, four top as well. We got Jude Law, Rooney Mara, who I love, and it Catherine Zeta-Jones who hadn't who was like acting less and less at this point. She's so good. And Channing Tatum twisty mystery about, you know, Channing Tatum and Rooney Mara. They're married. She is a depressive. She's on these antidepressants. Shit goes down. Is the drug to blame? Is she to blame? Can Jude Law help? Who's good? Who's evil? I love it, I love the twisty nature of this damn thing. And it's works every time. Like this was a movie I could not stop thinking about for weeks after I saw it. I was really, really like taken with this. And I love the gray like Soderbergh up until this point. Like I you don't really see him work too much with this type of color. At least one that I'm thinking of because so much of his movies, you know, you get like, the orange in The Informant, you get these reds in blues in The Girlfriend Experience, and, you know, you traffic, you get all sorts of things. But but this was a very gray, rainy New York, and it fits the tone of the movie so well. I like this movie needs to be this is a rainy day movie. That's what this is. And it's so much fun and everything is believable. I believe every second. Rooney. On the twists and turn ride we're on with her. And Jude Law is so good, so good. You feel for this guy? Like, I just cannot I, I his wife bothers me. The act. Not the character, not the actors. The character should stand by him a little bit. She, you know, but he need that. You need that. Just like contagion. My favorite performance and side effects is Vanessa Shaw as Jude Law's wife. I fucking love her in this. I love it, just not believe him. But she's when he's sitting there and he's like, oh wait, wait, I think I figured something out. She just comes at it, slaps him. He's like, what the hell? Like, what's going on? Mad, I think I think she's just like on the outside, like putting her in this position. I, I really, really like it. I his desperation that he leads to, like, you get Peter Friedman in there. The great he was in succession like the great Frank from succession and he says Jude Law so desperate and he's like, could you do me a favor, though? Can you just does five milligrams of Adderall just to focus. And he's looking at, I'm like, what the hell is wrong with you? But you lost, right? Like his characters in the right and, the whole like, you know, they're painting him out to, like, be the bad guy. That whole aspect of it. It's very it's little like Hitchcock and, more. No. Well, there's still kind of. It's more De Palma or Brian De Palma ish. I this I get vibes of that from this movie. I think there's a lot of Brian De Palma in a lot of his stuff. Yeah. Like I think that that was exactly that was my opening note for a movie that we're about to go and talk about pretty soon. But, yeah, this is I think it's got a little bit of everything, but that Brian De Palma vibe is all over this, and it makes sense because that is the tone that he's when he says he wants to just make entertaining. This is the vibe. This is the form that we're going with. So I'm going to reach out to those old filmmakers that did it that well. And De Palma's like at the top of that list. If you're trying to talk about like, this type of genre thriller. Absolutely. Yeah. A love one thing as we before we move on. I love this line. This is, this this is so good. Rooney Mara says this. At one point, I wrote down the whole fucking thing. Imagine everything you've ever wanted. Shows up one day and calls itself your life. And then just when you start to believe in it, gone. And suddenly it gets very hard to imagine the future. That's depression, right? Yeah. Great. Great fucking writing right there. It's amazing. I love that, she plays it so well, too. She's so fucking locked in. You absolutely believe she's afflicted with all this stuff in the movie? Just poses a lot of questions throughout the whole. And they're all valid. Like, you know, am I doing a good job? Did I screw up? Like, there's a lot of stuff going on here that's a lot deeper than just the fun and the the twists and turns of it all. I agree. Good, good. Great grim side effects. Love it. But also we got one left folks. We got one movie left before retirement. And the way that he cannot get it distributed, it's reaffirming his point that he needs to get out of this industry because Behind the Candelabra is budgeted for $23 million. You got two stars, two Oscar winning stars, and they're shopping this around for ages and no studio wants it. No studio would touch it. According to pretty much everyone involved. All the studios kept rejecting it, saying it was, quote, too gay. So, you know, we're we're eight years after Brokeback Mountain, when theaters were being boycotted because all the gay cowboy movie shit still going on in 2013. You can I mean, it's like it's just ridiculous. So he finds a home on HBO. This movie is not released in theaters. I think if it was, it would have been nominated for Oscars. But it's not. It's dumped on. HBO does go on to win Emmys stars Michael Douglas absolutely going for it as Liberace. He's incredible in the movie. Matt Damon as his lover, Scott Thorson. It's based on his Scott's memoir. I think you just watch this for the first time. Oh it has. I want to say that supporting great supporting performances Dan Aykroyd, Scott Bakula, Rob Lowe, Rob Fucking Lowe, and then, Debbie Reynolds and I believe the last credited role to the very recently and dearly departed Nikki Cat, who I learned recently, died by suicide. I didn't know it was that, and I am he's I've been thinking a lot about him since I learned that. And I liked that actor a lot. I always said he always brought some just kind of menace to everything. He's, you know, menacing in this. Just doing coke with David, like, the whole time with the cowboy hat, everything. So, Nikki cat, you will be missed. But Behind the candelabra. Wild movie. I didn't expect much from this. Like when I first back to watch it. It was actually, like one of the ones where I. It was one of my earlier ones in my Soderbergh journey, because for some reason, I think it was because it was like this idea that you just brought up where it was like, oh, this didn't even make it to movies. Like, this was just like a fun little thing and like, whatever. So I was like, all right, I'll get this one out of the way. And then move on. That was literally that was, you know, I'm an idiot. I am just, you know, that's a lot of people fell for it. I get it, man. It's true. But I should have known better because I'm better than you should have. You are. Oh. But, I wept at the end of this. Really, I now, I'm not a crier. I get. I think this is. But I think this is like one of his most emotive movies. Honestly, I do, I do two really surprises me where it goes. And I'm going to I mean, Michael Douglas won best actor, the Emmy, this one. Best for it. Like it won Emmys, rightfully so. But oh, I'm so glad to hear that. Yeah. When could you believe Liberace was gay? Like, yeah. I mean, no one. Yeah. I mean, no one saw that guy. That was I was just stunned when I was watching it. I went, oh my God, you know. Yeah. They, they there's an end scene between Damon's character and Douglas character where they're seeing each other for the last time because we're on liver and I mean, spoiler. Liberace dies. But, I mean, that's just it's just facts. But the the, the way that he says to him, did I make you happy? And he says, you made me most happy, and I, I could not handle that. That was, that was so emotional for me. And, I cannot say enough good things about this movie. This movie took me by such surprise. I did not I didn't know what it was going to be. And what I also loved about it was that we're not just getting this, like, cut and dry biopic. It's not even a biopic. It's because it's not his story. It's Damon's story. And but yet even there, we're getting a performance by Damon that we will never see because Damon's his all his whole entire thing is that he's he's the special one that's kind of like Matt Damon's career is sort of. I mean, he's the genius in Boston in good Will hunting. He's the one guy that everyone's searching for in Private Ryan. He's Jason Bourne, he's special. He's the gifted one. And here's a story of a man who does not own himself or believe in himself in any way whatsoever. I do. This movie really, really snuck up on me in a way that I cannot recommend. It's on Max, as are a lot of Soderbergh's movies live on on HBO Max. I guess it's going back to that title. Sure. I never stop calling it that. I neither did I, but there's, even with the opening shot of Damon. Oh, back at the bar. And then again, it's out of focus. And then. Yeah, yeah, I was as soon as that shot happened, I going into the movie, like I was saying, being like, reshot role. Yep. Yeah. I was like, all right, let's get this one out of the way. Get this opening shot. I go, oh, I might as well just fucking buckle up in here because I can get me something. And we really did. And those coked out scenes by Damon, that was some of the most realistic Coke. That that was that was that was going for it. Yeah. And just camera work, shoveling snow. Goddamn right. They were coming up with all the ideas. They're going to conquer the world. Yeah, but good. It's surprise you. It's very, very good. It's a very good movie. It's excellent, it's excellent. And even even the, the way that they show the Liberace, show. Oh, yeah. I really feel like having never seen one of those, I. I can only imagine that that did such a service to what those shows were like. Oh, yeah. Yeah. When Damon gets invited back, there's the the boyfriend is there and he's being discharged and it's going to take, you know, about an hour, 20 minutes for that to, to happen. I love that there was still a lot of heart into it when he breaks down at the table and he's like, we just haven't been so kind to each other. Oh, so long. You're like, I don't give a shit what we're talking about. Male, female, heterosexual relationship, homosexual. It does not matter. That shit is real. You believe that these two love each other, but they they have not been able to connect. And there's just been a lot of badness that's gone on in the relationship. And a little humanity, even as we learn later, is, you know, to benefit Liberace. It just breaks Damon down. And it's really beautiful. It is. Yeah. I love that line that. Yeah. And it's so real and and you can really feel that everything, even when they start being that cruel, like, there's like, you know that there's love there. Yeah. And and that's why it ultimately matters when you get to that ending of you made me So happy, made me most happy because if you if the movie didn't earn that moment, you know, this deadline's not going to work. But it it earned it every step of the way. You're going to be surprised at how high this might be up on my list. Oh. Very good. I love to hear it. All right, hang on to that one because Steven Soderbergh folks is out. Podcast. Don, thanks for listening. Happy watching. Yeah that's it. 2013 I had my five. I'm gone. You know, I know I've skipped over a few documentary documentaries. He's did some TV shows and we're not going to touch on those here. There's just not it's not enough time. We got 35 damn movies. The big thing that he does in his retirement is directs all episodes of the show The Knick for Cinemax or Max or whatever it was called at the time. And there's two seasons and they plan it. That's how it is. Two seasons were boom, and we're done. 20 episodes, I believe we're done. So that's what he's doing. But things are kind of like he starts, I don't know, there really wasn't a lot of like movie talk. And then out of nowhere he's going to come back with like this. They were pitching it. It's like a redneck Ocean's 11. I remember that's how it was being tossed around this thing. Logan Lucky and it's weird. And we're not hearing about it a lot because the screenwriter, no one's ever heard of, it's a pseudonym. People can't figure it out. They've later figured out it's. It is his wife, Jules Asner. But most tellingly, Logan Lucky begins phase four of his career, and I'm calling it the I'm back streaming movies for the win phase, noting that Logan Lucky is not a streaming movie, but he decided did a really radical thing, which was to completely go around the studio system. So this movie was funded by everyone involved in the movie, and then it was destroyed, tweeted by Soderbergh's own company. So the idea was, if this thing goes green and it makes money, every single person involved is going to make a shitload of money. Think like magic Mike. And we're just going over the we're bypassing all the studios because they're the assholes that made me retire. So that's what I'm going to do. And he makes a really entertaining movie. He releases it in the summer and surprise, surprise, very fucking few people show up for it and it just doesn't work out. So he admits right away, yep. Didn't work. Okay, great. And I think even threatened to like I'm just going away again and thank God he, you know, he found different avenues. But we got to watch this movie on your birthday weekend last year. I love this movie. It's so much fun. I put it on again. It's just I think Logan Lucky is an absolute blast. Riley Keough finally getting like her big Soderbergh moment. It is perfect fun. It is. Yeah, that's just kidding. It's just fun. I remember this is one of my, me and my ex-girlfriend. This is one of our favorite movies. We saw it together like we were really, because it was on Netflix, and it was one of those things. So let's watch this. I don't know, I heard it's I heard it's the redneck Ocean's movie. We just I remember us just having the best fun with this movie. And then you and I watched it, and then I couldn't wait to go and rewatch this again because I was like, I want to go back and just be with this movie. And I'm like, this is just Soderbergh number one, king of the heist. Let's just let's just say, yeah, let's just say he he is the king of these types of movies. And this is just in a certain tone, the whole entire way that's designed to be fun. Every actor gets a Daniel Craig is amazing. Channing Tatum continues to surprise me in all of his work. But this is just that's what it is. This is perfect fun. Yeah, it's just fun and don't, like, ever. If things are a little too neat or whatever, it's like, just throw that all away. It's very unconventional, too, because, like, the heist is done and then you still have like a half hour to go and you're going, what is this going to be? But yeah, it's perfect fun. It's usually I think it's on Hulu a lot Earth somewhere. But yeah, I love Logan Lucky and it's it just stinks that he tried yet another experiment and it didn't work out. The let's let's distribute these things ourselves kind of fell but still fun movie. So the next year he's going Logan Lucky's like shot on. It looks so gorgeous. It's very saturated on purpose, very big, full frame. Give me an iPhone seven plus and I'll give you a, stalker thriller. I'm going to call it Unsane. And I had only seen this once in the theater and just didn't. I didn't have a need to, like, buy it. This. It has this majestic 4K. They made so few copies, so they're so hard to get. So I got the Blu ray, man. I put it on and I'm like, I'm so glad I bought this movie. Rocks! Like this movie and it gets gnarly shit at times. Yeah, super fucking hardcore when you don't expect and I love Unsane, I love it, I love it, I fucking yes, I did, not that Beck did. Oh man. This was this was like I couldn't believe it. I was like one. I wasn't sure what this movie was about at all. So that's a perfect way to go into a movie. Claire Foy is so great. I loved every second of watching her. She is so surprising in all of her choices. I love that she does not play this type of part as a victim. Right, exactly. She's a fighter. Even in the midst of like, real trouble and horror and like physical violence being bestowed upon her, she still does not retreat into that level of helplessness. She has got this like fight back energy to her. That is such a pleasure to watch. And it's from the like the very first second. Even when she's dealing with that one boss, that's being really creepy and she's just sort of like, you want to, we could go. Yeah, just get. Yeah. Getting fucking. Yeah, yeah. A little office sexual harassment. Sure. Great. Thanks. And and then just like to where this movie goes, I even wrote down my third no. Like, oh, this is terrifying. This is like real. It is because it's so realistic. And and then you really start to wonder, is she actually crazy or is she not? Exactly. And you really are wondering, you're like, yeah, I really don't know. Like I don't know. And and then Damon shows up, let's go. Matt Damon fucking right. He does think Damon for the gift of fear. Amy Irving's in there. Juno Temple's here. But yeah, they have I mean, he I love his casting. He will often. Yeah. Again, we're breezing by a lot of stuff, but like Amy Irving, I don't think she had been in the Soderbergh movie since traffic. And then boom, she just there. And I love that. I mean, this movie just continues to top itself in. It's like fucked up and it's like how crazy this movie starts to go and where it goes. If you don't think it'll earn that R-rating, believe me, it will. I didn't even remember that. I was like, whoa, dude. And Joshua Leonard, the main guy in it, he's one of the three from the Blair Witch Project. He's had a really good career and I'm really happy for him. Yeah, that's Josh from the Blair Witch Project. Oh, my God, you are Josh. Yeah, yeah. Good. I'm so glad you liked it. Dude. I'm so glad I have so many things that I want to say about it, but I don't want to bring it up because I know this might not be one of those movies that might be high on people's list to see, like how it's about full frontal. You know, probably not a lot of people are going to see that, but this is one that I would actually really recommend. Yeah, you won't be disappointed if you like horror, if you like, just like weird, fucked up movies, but they're good. This is that this is that, like I was I couldn't believe how much I like this movie. I'm so thrilled to hear that. I love that you embrace the later career ones a lot. I just yeah, there. Again, these aren't films. They are movies. They're supposed to be fun. They can be fucked up, but they're all supposed to be fun. Everything. Post behind the candelabra. Everything and everything. Those kind of is supposed to be fun. I mean, well, and let's face it, because they're not going to be you know, it's not that it's not, but but you know, but even if you look at all these contagion haywire, magic Mike, Side Effects, Behind the Candelabra, Logan Lucky, Unsane, everything that we've been talking about there is master craftsmanship in these movies in their own unique ways. So like whether it's haywire, it's like the way that we're watching these fight scenes, it's masterful filmmaking. You know, go Behind the Candelabra. There's so much good stuff going on there, but it's just they're all contained in a certain type of, this is just this. It's this is this, this is this, this is. And in there is where in lies the master that he is at this. But you're not going to get, you know, the type of scene in Behind the Candelabra, because that's not what Unsane is. Yeah. Unsane is going to go to places where you're like for this genre. This is some of the best stuff I've seen in this genre. Exactly, exactly. It's not some deep, real emotional relationship story. It's just an awesome stalker thriller, honestly. Yeah. Which really touches on the, you know, talking about the Soderbergh politics thing. Like there's some stuff in here about shady insurance companies, shady hospitals, like magic Mike is living up in, like, recession. Like, there's a lot it's all about the economy and stuff like that. So he puts these things into Logan Lucky. It's a lot about the economy, too, and how it is. No one gives a fuck about us. Yeah, he he's got those messages and even this going back to my idea of like what is real? What is not real. This is all that movie. This is all that. Yeah. IPhone movie number two is upgraded to the good old iPhone eight for High Flying Bird, which he is going to release straight to Netflix, which he did in February 2009, opens with a handful of awesome. He's he's really showing off in the first few shots of High Flying Bird about what I don't think he could do on Unsane with the iPhone. And now he's like, oh, I can play around with exposure. Watch this. Like I'll start with an outside shot. Go inside. Cool movie about a lockout in the NBA and a sports agent of sort played by Andre Holland, the star of The Knick. And it's just a breezy 90 minutes Soderbergh flick. It comes. It has this also cool kind of circular narrative great murderer's row of character actors Zazie Beetz, Sonja Sohn from The Wire, God great to see her again. Zachary Quinto is great. Kyle McLaughlin. Bill Duke, of course, got a little Bill Duke. One scene in The Limey, just a really good iPhone movie. And now he's he's like, okay, streaming service is cool. Putting up the money and distributing them myself. That didn't work. So Logan Lucky in Unsane, cool experiments that didn't work. Streaming. You don't want to put it in theaters and want to put it straight on your services. I don't give a shit. That's him saying it. I do not care about the theater experience anymore. Whatever. Do whatever you want with it. So he does two in a row for Netflix, High Flying Bird and Laundromat, which is about money laundering. It is a satire. It is very farcical in nature. It doesn't even break like it breaks whatever the fourth wall is, and then shatters that down to where characters and our on screen narrators, played by Gary Oldman and Antonio Banderas, start referencing Soderbergh at one point. They're like, the director of this film has five. And so it's that meta, like it's really getting down there, but then showing us some kind of chapter I's stories of how money affects different people, different cultures. And I would say high flying bird laundromat in the next movie we talk about, I think are probably considered lesser, newer Soderbergh fare. And I say, EFF all that noise because I love all these movies and The Laundromat to center the central sequence with the family and The Bribing of Water is some of the funniest and best shit Soderbergh has put on film. And I long time, and I don't know who any of those actors are, and they are all magnificent. I'm such a fan of this. I thought this was this was. There is no story to this movie. Even though your position between Gary Oldman, Antonio Banderas, they're really just the movie's narrators because they're they're an example of the people that run these money laundering eyes. But then every story that we're getting are people that are affected by this, and never the two really meet like that, like like Antonio Banderas and and Gary Oldman. Characters never actually interact really with any of these stories. And to the point where we finally get to that family, this whole entire thing starts to go for like 25 minutes and I go, is this its own movie? It's like, are we ever cutting back? Like Wesley Streep? Like, what the hell is going on? Because we're given Meryl Streep story forever, and not in a bad way, but like, that's what you think you're following. And then you're like, oh, no. And and then she comes back and delivers her own, like, meta monologue to all of this. But I just want to point out Meryl Streep is just like the Goat for so many reasons. There's a scene that she has towards the beginning of the movie where her and her family go to this, Vegas, hotel. Meryl has a monologue about how she met her husband in Vegas, and she's telling her grandkids that. And this monologue is not long. This is less than a minute less than 60s. But she's such a good actor. She paints the imagery of the way that she met her husband, all in this monologue. And it's just it's astounding, acting like you don't need to look very far in Meryl Streep to just see what good acting is. And it's not like the moments of, like in the actual scenes. It's like when she is talking about moments of her past they're lived in. You can actually picture in your mind what she's saying because she's seeing it all. She has done all the specific work. She's just amazing. And my, my favorite line from this is Gary Oldman. When someone says something's bad and he goes bad, it's such a big word for being such a small word. They're great. The little accents they were doing or that he was doing, it was just great. It's just it honestly is a great acting movie, like Antonio Banderas, Gary Oldman and Meryl Streep are just lighting it up with everything. And Will Forte's in this. Will Forte, Jeffrey Wright, David Schwimmer, Sharon Stone, Matthias Schoen Arts Everyone's great James Cromwell shows up. It's a great cast. Yeah. Robert. Patrick yeah. Robert. Patrick yeah, really glad that you like that one as well. And I mean, he gets, a double feature, a Meryl double feature, because after the laundromat goes over to Max where he has a deal worked out to release a few movies with them, and he just gets this idea of, like, yeah, let's take over the Queen Mary to not even take it over. Just give us little a little portion of this ship. I'll film a whole damn movie on it, go to where we're going, and coming back like I'll use that whole time to film this. Really, just really unique but honest friendship story between Meryl Streep, Candice Bergen and Dianne Wiest. My favorite in the film, and her little, like profanity that just comes out. You're like, oh, little, who do is in there? It's. And, you know, if you were a fan of hers from like the 80s that she is capable of that. And Meryl is a famous writer and there's clearly some resentment from the friends, and they're all kind of stuck together. There's her nephews on board, too, and I did not remember how this ended in the last ten minutes. Like, it kind of a huge surprise. And yeah, just another, great movie from Steven Soderbergh that I love that did not get the attention it deserved. I think this is a perfect movie. Yep. I really I was really taken with it this time. I had only seen it once before when it came out. And we're like, you know, it's been almost a year of Covid when this came out. So seeing it, like with all none of that stuff around. Yeah, I love it. I mean, I remember watching this movie, back in 2020, it definitely made my top ten of that year. That was our first year. We had a top ten of the year. Rewatching it again, it's hard to kind of describe like why this is so good. Like it's it's it is a friendship story, but it's also a story about women. And I love the the addition of Lucas Hedges character, because now you're bringing in an element of youth, and he's even asking the question to to Diane was at one point like, you are like the last remaining version of us as humans that were before or we became this way with technology. And he's like, what do you have to say to us as like the, the, the next like generation then I love what Diane says. She goes, it's not that much different, right? Yeah, I love that. Like it's, it's it's vastly different, but it's not different. You're just finding your way. The way that we found our way. And you'll find it I know, but I love that. I love how she. You have someone who can just, like, bring it down. It. She's the. She seems like the glue kind of keeping them together a little bit, but there are still different resentments there. And yeah, it is. I think it is a movie that's fit for women, but I that we can all appreciate. But it feels very honest with these specific relationships. And what happens when you get to that age. Yeah. It's anecdotes. So what are you watching. Note perfect movie. You heard it here. Oh you heard it here. The end DNP first one of the of the show. I like that at the end and I've said it before I know but but then she put it in the W like a and. No I said it on the Manchester by the sea commentary. Everyone's listen to God in DNP our first one. We're only about 3.5 hours in here. Jesus Christ. Well, you should know me better than we'll be done. We'll be done by four. Well, let's get it in. We can do it. Goddamn right we should. Let's do it. Next one. Oh, my God, another one I can put on any damn time. I love this movie. A twisty, like, 50s era. What the hell is going on? Crime thriller. No sudden move. It is dense. It's written. Written by Ed Solomon, who's written like he wrote Mosaic and Full Circle, two big kind of TV things for Soderbergh. Lot of characters. A huge web is cast in this movie. It is, but it's a tight timeline. It's only a few days and you are not going to be able to follow everything as it's going. But I promise you, by the time the credits are over, it's all going to make sense. And it is just this glorious triple, quadruple, however many back stabs you can do right up until the very end. And I love No Sudden Move in. That really made me go, okay, like, you didn't just put yourself on a boat or like, you didn't shoot this on an iPhone. Like, this is a real big movie that absolutely should have been in theaters, but hey, it was on HBO Max, I love it. I've watched this one like three times just researching this episode because I just love to put it on. I like to have it all in the background. It's flawless. It is it. I remember the first time I started to watch it, I actually had to turn it off because it was I knew I needed more attention. It. Yeah, it's very clear that this is a movie that that requires your attention, but it's fun all at the same time. But it's because it is dense. There's so much to it vary, but it never feels convoluted. It never feels weighty in the way where it's sort of like, oh my God, there's so much I'm following. It all is very fresh and very funny. The humor in this movie, yeah. And what is surprise? What? David Harbor? Oh, yeah. He's great. He's crazy. He to me is the, like, there's so many great actors in here, but his performance in this is the one that I really got attached to. I love when he's about breaks into his boss's office and he goes, I'm going to punch you. This is going to be a punch. It's gonna be a punch. Oh, it's so good. Punch. Boom! Just nails him over the lunch box. This movie has it all cool humor, style, stakes, performance, cinematography, music, substance, twists. It is cool. We haven't said that word in a while. It's. We were saying that a lot early on. Yeah, it's very cool. It's a very cool movie. Great lead performance by Don Cheadle. It's just everyone is on point and it's, you know, you like a murder. It's not murder mystery. Just like a crime thriller mystery that involves, you know, some heist of a sort of sort this out. I love No Sudden Move. Man two I love this movie. And then bringing it back to your point, way back in the beginning, Damon's end scene in here is a, that's that's that's an all timer, like one scene cameo. It's well, it's like an act because it's really like the last kind of act. But he's only in one sequence, really, and that I can put on, like when Damon starts to the end of the movie that I can put on, like, any time because it just, oh, man, it's great. Great. No sudden move. It really is. Ed Solomon. Yes, great. Great writing. Now we're still on HBO and we get the oh, what a fun mystery thriller of sorts about like, somewhat of like an audio engineer. It made it so fun for me that she's, like, trying to figure out a mystery via audio. It's Kimi starting Zoe starring Zoe Kravitz. Rita Wilson pops up. She's really fun to see her. And this is kind of a Covid paranoid thriller in Covid. She's terrified of it, but then she's also trying to maybe solve a mystery or something. And what I will say sent very similar to Unsane, the violence toward the end of Kimmy Got gets way gnarlier than I remembered. Yeah way more. And I went, oh, okay. Like you really you he brought it out for this. Like, yeah, it gets good. And yeah, I mean, what more? We're getting a bit repetitive here, but yet another streaming Soderbergh movie that I love. I mean, you know, he does. He's done this in a few movies, like Out of Sight is coming to my mind, but like these kind of end shootout, they're not exactly shootouts, but they are like these end big set pieces in homes. Yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Yeah, he's very good at that. Like there's that. That Kimi end sequence is a lot of fun. You don't know what's going to happen and it's very good. I agree I didn't remember leading up to that. And I was like okay cool cool. Haywire. Same. Haywire. Exactly. Yeah. Setting it big huge. Like siege on the house. And where is she? Find her. Yeah, yeah, I mean, the lines, but set pieces, of course. Same thing. So piece of the house, we could go on through him. Oh, wow. He's figuring it out, folks. No, but Kimmy's really I love her loft. My God, I do I love do I love Kimmy's loss. But we got to remember Kimmy. It's no che. Yeah, it's no che. It's not che. But it's still Kimmy. Good flick. Kimmy is not her name either. I'll have everyone know what I'm in. Illegal to call it Siri. That ends phase four, because out of nowhere, I don't know if this is his decision, but he's like, all right, I guess I'm done with streaming movies. So phase five, which we are currently in, I have called I'm Back movies in theaters for the win because in 2023, as covered in episode 88, what are you watching? Soderbergh put his first film in theaters since Unsane and the end of the magic Mike saga, magic Mike's Last Dance. And when I put it on, you know, we covered it somewhat recently. When I put it on for this, I was like, oh man, just sit back and have fun. It's an it's a lovely breeze. Magic Mike's last dance. It's gonna be It's Ray's that trilogy. That first one is its own brilliance. That second one is its own fun. This third one, it's uniquely different. Just like all three of them are, though, three of these movies live in the same place at all except Channing Tatum character. That's it. Yeah. That's it. It's just the same guy in the around the same world, but none of it is in the same world. It's it's a very different tones, very different feels, color schemes. They're designed to be their own individual movie, but yet they're a part of that perfect trilogy of this guy's life. Yeah, I, I love Last Dance, he said. A major influence of it, very pertinent to this podcast, was All That Jazz. So it kind of, you know, just like putting on the show stuff and all that jazz. Stop it. I'm serious. Oh, I'm telling you, it's showtime, folks. Magic Mike will he rise again? Who knows? That movie did not make a lot of money. And I think they're like, okay, it's fine. I was actually surprised they put it in theaters and didn't put it just straight to HBO, but oh well, Magic Mike's Last dance. Go listen to our episode on that. That brings us up. Here we are. We have a double feature Steven Soderbergh double feature for 2025. First up was presents he wanted to make a he never really made a ghost story, a horror movie. No. So he wants to go do that. Of course he wants to do it his way. And a really radical, awesome way, which is film it from the perspective of a ghost. The whole thing takes place in one house. When a scene is done, it will cut to black. That is supposed to indicate the relative passage of time. And then when we cut into a scene when we are in it, every scene in the film is done in one shot. That's how it is. There's no editing within, and there is no digital trickery here. And it's like, okay, here we go. Another Soderbergh movie being released in January. January 2025 is when it came out in theaters. I'm like, all right, I'll go. And I loved it. I saw this thing three times in the theater. I love this movie. I love, I love the press. It's it's great. It's. You loved it too. I did, I did. Oh, God, I did. So glad. Lucy Liu is just so good. Like they all were. The whole family was great. The whole family was great. I fell for the dad, man. Yeah, that is it. That guy is just trying to keep it all fucking together. Yep. Even though this is the story of a ghost, which is so funny because I wrote this down, I'm like, how the fuck are we feeling for the ghost? I'm like, oh, essentially we're just feeling for a camera. Just it's it's all, it's all it is. But yet when we're actually like learning that like, this ghost is protecting some people, it's got emotion. It's angry. But it seems like it's all angry. Not out of, like, hatred or some of those feelings that you might put to a ghost movie where, oh, this ghost is unhappy. It doesn't feel like that. It feels like this ghost just lives here. And now that there's these people here, it certainly has an attachment towards Chloe, the one girl. But who? No one likes the brother because he's an asshole. Yeah, yeah. And. Yes. And so when he's. When he's mouthing off, the ghost is like this guy, I'm going to mess up his room, you know? So there's no there's no evil, really. That's here. And and then when you. And then it's even trying to save Chloe and oh my God, Jesus Christ, we cannot spoil it. But where the fuck this movie goes is. I never saw that coming. Oh, yeah, that's what I'm saying. Soderbergh can like, have fun, do a ghost thriller, and then he will bring it. He will hit you home, it'll come home. They're there. It would be a very cool for this reason of like taking to these movies, to these fucked up places that you don't expect it to go as a double feature of Unsane and Presence. That would be Love It, a really cool double feature because they feel like they live together and their experimentation and yet like the the boldness of just going to these places where you just don't expect it at all. I mean, it's great the music. Zach Ryan score. Very good. Yeah, beautiful. I really love the score for this presence. Yes, I remember, some loyal, loyal listeners mentioned that in our live stream for the Oscars. And I was like, yeah, I loved it. Yeah. And I was like, yes, I did. I loved it, everyone go see it. Love presence needs to come out because it's not available to stream anywhere yet, unlike the most recent Steven Soderbergh film. We. Yeah, because two whole months later he gave us another movie after presents This Black Bag, a good old fashioned, genuine spy thriller starring Michael Fassbender and Cate Blanchett, is married couple Fassbinder sent on a mission of sort to figure out, do we have, like, a mole among us? What's going on? He has to investigate a few people. This is all. This is a movie about dialog. It's a movie about the spy craft shit that I just love. And 90 and it's 94 minutes long. It did pretty decent at the box office. Wasn't a smash or anything, but man did I love this one and it is on Peacock, so it is just really easy to put on if you have that any time. And yeah, what more to say. We're he's given us two really good movies so far this year. I wasn't a very big fan of this. Okay, well, I want to keep it positive to end on a lot of people. Art. What did you think of the dinner scenes? Like, What's Tennessee? I want to, I want to I want to talk a little bit about it. It's not the scene by scene. This movie is entertaining as hell. I like, though I get it. It's very dense and there was a lot that was given to us in dialog of things that we never see, and there's no way for us to catch it. Like they're like, it's not like these things where it's like, oh, if you look for it, it's all there. It's all just been like, like it, it's it's the design of the movie is to just feed us the information as the like, twists and turns. There's no way you could track all of it. And as far as how I felt towards the end, where I was just sort of like, there's no way we could have known any of this. Like. And the only way that we are is just because now you're telling us. But that being said, I was entertained every step of the way. Yeah. So yeah, it's I think it's, it's a very like, kind of tinker tailor soldier spy thing. They're going for that. Like even his name is George, like George Smiley, George Woodhouse. Well, it's Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? Yeah, well, that is absolutely. That was a huge, huge influence on this, including the beginning having all the people around the dinner table and stuff. But yeah, this is a lot of what is said not shown because it's all from, you know, his perspective. So he didn't get to see any of this. So it's all just this gathering of information. But yeah, it's just this mean lean little spy thriller. But again, even if it's not for everyone, he's like, thank you. Next. He just moves right on. Yeah. And I'm not saying it's bad. Yeah. No I know what you mean. Yeah. I was just sort of like, all right, we're just getting a lot here. That's that's been told to us, but that's fine. That's the design of the movie. Yeah, it is, it is. But what you what it gives you, you were like a fan of, like, it was entertaining. Oh, yeah. Move. Yeah. Performances are good. Yeah. So I, I definitely get it. It's been a challenging one for people. The polygraph is so much fun. The, the scene where he's got her in the room and they're tracking Cate Blanchett. I mean, that's the thing. Like, there's so much fun and you feel the stakes of the movie the whole entire time. So that's all I'm saying is I like I wish we could have seen a little bit more than been told, but that's it, I get it. I totally get it. That's it. He has another movie coming out called The Christophers, written by Ed Solomon, who I mentioned wrote No Sudden Move, don't know when it's going to be out, but he already I think it's in the can. So that'll be the 36th film from Steven Soderbergh. And we're going to do the Steven Soderbergh Oscars here. Yeah, we got the Steven Soderbergh Oscars. Top ten, Soderbergh. And then what are you watching? It will be quick Oscars. It's going to be kind of simple. We have some major categories and we're just going to list our favorites. We're going to start. We should describe to people that when we do this, in case they're just hearing it for the first time, we are not talking about the Oscars. They won or didn't when we were giving. If we could give. And you look at the entire filmography of Soderbergh, every actor is on the table for being nominated for. They have to be like the actor, the supporting actor. But every movie is up for Best Picture director, so we are picking what we would award the filmography of Steven Soderbergh if we could give it an Oscar. Yes. So like the first category best score, there are 35 movies to choose from. That's what we mean. There's 35 nominations. Yeah, we don't have any formal nominations. Every movie. Well, you know, I mean, if there's more acting, whatever. So yes, that is technically how we're doing it. So let's go first. Best score. You're going to love this no sudden move. Oh wow. I did not expect that. I have salaries by Cliff Martinez. Oh it's. Oh. Looks so beautiful. I used to write to that. Yes, all the time. Oh my God, all the time. No sudden move. That's the surprise. I believe that's David Holmes, the, the great Ocean's guy who did all the ocean stuff. And he's done a lot of Soderbergh's movies, and he is quite the musician. Best editing. Wow, this is tough. I will go back and forth. We'll go back and forth. So you just did score. I'll do editing. Obviously, he edits a lot of his own movies. Yeah, I do not have one of those. I have wow for a lot of them, I picked, yeah, for a lot of them, I picked two because, I realized that a lot of mine were going to the same movie, and that got a little boring for best. Yeah. Overall, it's Steven Mariani traffic, which actually won the Oscar for best Editing. My follow up and tied for number two is Sarah Flack with Steven Soderbergh. The Limey. Yes. That that you know what? We have the exact same one I voted for. Traffic. Okay, I pick for best editing with, though I don't have too many backups, but the only one that I just had to give credit to was The Limey because of that editing style. Yeah, I mean, it was kind of that movie is editing like, oh, it is so good is all right, best cinematography. You do it. All right. I'm putting this in there because I just wanted to because we're talking about Soderbergh and you just can't really go bad though. But I love the cinematography of magic Mike, so that's where it's going. Wow. Magic. Magic Mike shot by Peter Andrews. That's a great choice I love it, I do I love all the cinematography in that. I am also going with the Peter Andrews classic and that is for Take a Wild Guess traffic because yeah, yeah. The way the different looks of it I. Yeah and everything the gritty nature of it. God but I'm not going to fight on magic Mike. That's that what I think we had the same thing were a lot of these awards are going to the same movie. It's probably the exact same movie we're talking about. Right. So I want I wanted to switch it up with that one. So because because otherwise you're 100% correct. No. And that's yeah that's smart. So I do it a few times here. So okay best screenplay goes to me I'm going with sorry guys. Yet another Oscar winner. How boring Steven Kagan traffic I promise I put more thought into these, but I'm like I just love that my runner up are a fun one. Would be, Ed Solomon for No Sudden Move, because I think that thing is twisty as hell. I love that script, but come on out of sight. Like all these screenplays, sex, lies and videotape. Oh, wow. He's giving it to Soderbergh. Wow. That's awesome. He would love to hear you say that. Like, absolutely love. I, I'm blown away by the writing of that movie. I can't stop thinking about it, but god damn, man, I love it. Sex lies. Okay, best Supporting Actor A rich field. Given how many performances would fit here in Soderbergh's career? Sorry guys. It also won the Oscar. It's one of my favorite performances in the history of film. Benicio del Toro, traffic I can't deny it. It's it's solid, solid? Yeah, I think you like mine. What is it? Michael Douglas, Behind the Candelabra supporting. He won best actor for no supporting character. Matt Damon's the star of that movie. That's that. Brad's the lead character. The story is about him. Liberace is just happens to be there. You're not going to accept that? Tell it to the Emmys. He won the Emmy for best actor. You need to throw me something else. It doesn't count. I'm sorry. I don't make the rules. It talk to the governing body of the whatever that's called. That's fucking stupid. It can be your runner up goddamn spot. No, no, no, you can, you can. We can take it out. Taking it out. All right. God, it. Okay, then I guess, I guess I have to go. I have to agree with you. Benicio in and traffic. That's that's that's what that would be. All right. And if the Emmys didn't count Douglas as lead, we would. I need that in there for supporting. So if here's the thing though, man. Like if we're talking about this I mean like that's absolutely the supporting actor in that movie though. Like that. Well, we talk about this shit all the time that yeah, we talk about the Oscars all the time. All right. Fine. I know, fuck you at me, I know. All right. So supporting actor. There he goes. Got Michael Douglas in a lead role in Behind the Candelabra. He's not he is not the best supporting actress. Do it Diane Weast. Let them all talk. Wow. Very nice, very nice. Unexpected as mine will be. Come at me Jennifer Ealy is Doctor Ali contagion. I love her, I am love her in this. Yes. No fucking all right I like yes, I like it. You ripped her heart during that contagion talk. Best actress. Oh, a little difficult for me. Didn't. Oh, it's easy for you. Go for it. Hands down. Andie MacDowell. Wow. The sex lies I went, I jumped way ahead, and I feel good about it. There's a lot to put here. I Rooney side effects because I. Oh, in that I love what she does with it. Fools me a little bit every time. Like where's is there, where's the turn. Yeah. So yeah. Cool. I like yours too. I like yours a lot. I didn't expect that. All right. Best actor. I mean, I guess I need to go, get some help. Matt Damon, the informant. Oh, perfect. Perfect. That's a great call. That's a great call. My best supporting actor when there was Benicio del Toro. Traffic. Best actor. Fucking Benicio che. Yes! Oh, yes. Which one? Which one? If I had to pick, I actually think he's. He has more to do in the first one. He gets to play a bunch of different levels, but the desperation and number two, it's like man, he's really, just kind of like going on this downward, downward spiral. If forced to pick one, though, I would pick one because I do think he's given a little bit more to do in the way that he's ingeniously planning that siege. But, I actually had Clooney Solaris as my runner up. I love him in that movie. I love him best director. What is the best directed Steven Soderbergh film? Traffic yes it is, yes it is. He won the Oscar for it. Yes it is. Now I'll ask it. I'll ask you is your Best Picture winner your number one Soderbergh film? Yes. Okay, then let's save it for our number one. Okay. I don't want to spoil it here. Good. So is mine. So let's save it. So now there we go. That was fun. You, sex lies up, man, I love that that, like, hit you. It's got. You got it. Yeah it's there man. That that it's just everything that I want in a movie. Spader could be my best supporting actor. I could take that. How about that? That you don't think you're a lead? I think he's the lead, motherfucker. It's the lead movie. Look. It's based. He's pissed. He can't win. Do Rob Lowe behind the cat, Nikki. Cat behind the candelabra. Supporting actor. That's. Oh, you know what? Okay. Fuck it. You know what I'm going to give it to for fun. Because now that if everything's throw out the window. My best supporting actor is Nikki Cat. Full frontal. Who'd he play in that film? Hitler. Yes he did, yes he did. Wow. What a great call. That's the only time, Leo. Full frontal for Steven Soderbergh. All right, before we get in our top ten folks, I got to tell you, like, Oh, my God, I put a lot of thought into this, and I got to tell you, if someone didn't know that Soderbergh was the director of all these movies, someone would look at this list and be like, what the fuck collection of films are these? Like, my list is nuts. I'm doing it because it's me and it just speaks to me. And I think this is I added entertainment value. I added what I think are some serious stuff. These, I think, are a combination of the best movies and films Steven Soderbergh has made. And I'm very happy with the list, and I don't think a lot of people will agree with it. And that's fine. Let's start at number ten. Unless you want to qualify your list like me. No. I feel the same way. I feel like there's a lot of these that I chose because you can't deny, like, the the master quality of some of these. But then there's ones on here that I'm like, nope, this this one's for me because I just think it's that good, as I stated, because they're a little ridiculous. I'm not going to sit here and set all of them up. We gotta we're we've run long. So you go number ten. Oh. I'll start. Fuck it. I'll start. I'll be the I'll be the bigger hand here. Number ten. You know what? Come at me. Get topless. Let's do it. That's right. Yes, yes, we have what it ordered. Let's go, let's go. They're all going to be exactly the same. No, they won't though. That would be really funny. All right, so number ten for you. Get topless. Number nine. Sorry. Not sorry. I've seen it so many times and I love it. It's haywire. Oh, okay. We're dead. Sure. We are different now. You're not going to have haywire. No, it would have. Hey, hey, while there's Soderbergh top ten. Except me. I love this movie. I don't have it in my top ten, but I do have one that I know that you're going to be surprised it's number nine, even though I know it's got to be way higher up for you, the limey. Okay, well, hey, made the list and made the list I did. Oh, it's a little, more, but hey, it's okay, it's okay. Number eight, by far the most recent one. Most of mine lean a little older, most recent, and one that I love and can put on any time. As stated. No sudden move. Bring it home. Oh, God, I love that Ray. Number eight Unsane. Oh, wow. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah, I love it. I love I loved it, loved it. He makes us count them as two different movies. So I'm counting them as two different movies. I said we were not allowed to cheat. So my number seven is che part two. Ooh. Sure is. All right. Sure. All right, all right. Not the most entertaining movie made, but, one of the. It's just a real fucking film, man. It's really good. It really is. Yeah. Both of them. Yeah, it's it's actually I was, I was bear this one out now. I couldn't pick between the two of them. So is my easy way of not including them canceled out? Fair enough. Fair and sold out, I get it. So that leaves my number seven with our favorite Ocean's movie, Ocean's 12. Very good, very good. You done good, kid. And Ocean's made it. Made the cut. Ocean's 12 for you? Yeah, I mean, I grappled with that, too. I couldn't pick between one chain so I could either exclude them or seven. Jay part two six Jay part one. Wow. Not being cute. That's of all. All the rewatches I did in order that. Well, those were the two that struck me the most and I went. He was right. He made like a masterful double feature and we all slept on it. And it's even taken me this long. Two and one of the reasons I wanted to put them both here is because I really want people to go see these. Like, they're really, really good. Yeah, I that's what I would have had to have done if I was going to include it. So I'm glad you did actually, because that's, it's the bold and right move. Well thank you. That's what they call me. Okay, here we go. Number six. You're going to be crazy. Let's hear it. Oh, fuck. Now, here's where you're going to. You're going to think I'm crazy. It's okay. Number six. It's not in my top five. I had to pick between this one out of sight. Wow, man. What is he going to reach up to here? This is. Or what are you going to lead up to? How do I know? I know buried six is buried. Buried. Oh, okay. There. Do you want to tussle? I could tussle over that. Do you want it to be tussle number five? This is one I didn't think this feels low for me. Like I should have it higher because I used to. But I love you with all of my heart. Number five. Solaris. Is it Solaris? Is it Solaris? I don't know, whatever I, I think it's Solaris okay. Solaris. And based on your reaction it probably won't be on yours. And you know what? That's okay. Wouldn't be. It's not. It's not in my it's not in my top ten. But the way you end up is in my top five. And that's let them all talk. I think that is such a fucking great movie. Wow. That's. Yeah, I mean and I want people to go check those out too. Like they're. Yeah, they're really good and they're fun, really good. But they have depth and heart to them, especially that ending. Like I said, it really surprised me. My number four was your number seven, Ocean's 12. Not whole. Listen to the commentary. We have a blast on it. Yeah, I love no one. No one would do something like this. It is such a singular, American studio movie. That's knee up. Yeah. All right. Ready? I'm ready. Number four. Number four, behind the candelabra. Wow. Holy shit. That's a huge thing. And he doesn't even know who the lead is. It's such, No, I'm just kidding. I didn't know. I knew you liked it. I didn't know you liked it that much. Like. Yeah, it's honestly that. And maybe che and maybe that one where I. When I rewatched it, I was like, oh, this. There's actually a lot of heart and Behind the Candelabra, like, it's really emotional. He would have been nominated for actor Douglas. Sorry. Yeah. I mean, if if they released in theaters, I think they both would have been nominated. What category? Who knows. But they were there. It's such strong performances by both of them. It is. And it's just it was it actually almost made my cinematography nomination two because that movie's gorgeous looking. But yeah. Number four, that does surprise me. I've been pleasantly surprised so far by your list. My number three. Your number nine. Tell him I'm fucking coming. It's the limey. Yes, yes, I knew God, I love. I knew it had to be on there. Hi. Yep. Your number three. Top three, baby. I had to put this at number three because I. In my heart, it actually means to be in number two. But I can't let recency bias dictate this because number two means too much. So number three. But give it time and it might. Number three is sex, lies and videotape. Yeah. So I love that. And I that is my strategy too I I'm like okay if I just saw this and it had such an impact I don't want to name it like the best because I need to see how it ages. But yeah, wait a year and report back to us and be like, no. Yes, that is firmly my number two. I've rewatched it, whatever. But man, I just love that you included that one. I love that it hit so hard. It's so good. It's it really is that that that one, that one got that one hit me in a way of me loving movies in a way that, like none of them else, not that they didn't, but like, there must be something in his writing that that that's what it's really calling out to me about this. And I think he should write more. But yes. Yeah. Number three. And that's the thing he said that changed his entire career. He got out of his own way and stopped writing his own scripts, and just started finding writers and finding scripts. So he said, after, you know, the underneath, he's just gone. And now he he's like, he did get topless. And now it's I'm I'm going to find really good scripts. You know, it's a mistake. It'd be interesting to hear his take on that. Well, my number two, this is the only one I've been surprised by in your list. I just thought it would be. Here's your number six. Bring it home. Out of sight. Love it, baby love. Yeah. Well that's I, yeah I do too I mean that's why it was really tough. But I had to go with, with some of this in my heart. But number two it's magic Mike. Yeah. Yeah I can't, I can't, I can't, I can't not have that. I fucking love that movie so much. Well, he, it was between that or sex, lies and videotape. Yeah. So I was like, am I really going to put that at number two when I've been repping magic Mike for the last five years? Yeah. All right. Well, either this dude fucking loves Kimi way more than I thought he did or. Ooh, I don't know. I don't even want to set it up. But for me, yeah, it was my second favorite film of the 21st century so far. It's one of the most important movies I'll ever see. We're Here to Listen is one of my favorite final lines in any movie, ever. It means so much to me personally. It's traffic I will adore this film for the rest of my life, and I am so indebted to Soderbergh for making it. And the Oscars. Yeah, got it right that year. You really did. You gave him director like for the right movie and yeah, traffic. Also my best picture of the Steven Soderbergh Oscars did did oh did. Oh that's all. Yes. Yeah. So good to know. Yeah. And it's undeniable it didn't. And that's the movie that like I mean we've talked about them all, but like that is the that's the most important movie. I think that he's made for so many reasons. But it's also on a craftsmanship level. There's so much to value about that. That's why I'm so pissed. I don't had my notes for it. But yes, traffic is, it can't not be. It's just that good. It's that good. Oh man, I love to hear that. So we had five in common skits. Opolis, The Limey, Ocean's 12, out of Sight, traffic. I'm going to go real quick. My top ten, Steven Soderbergh ten skits Opolis nine. Haywire eight. No Sudden Move seven. Che part two six. Che part one five. Solaris for Ocean's 12 three. The limey two. Out of sight one. Traffic number ten Opolis. Number nine. The Limey number eight. Unsane. Number seven. Ocean's 12. Number six. Out of sight. Number five let them All Talk. Number four. Behind the candelabra. Number three. Sex, lies, and videotape. Number two should be number one. Magic Mike and number one traffic. Magic Mike. Better film the traffic. Damn right. No, these are great. Listen, they both speak to us. I love how high let them all talk is for you. I do know that. Yeah. That's your favorite of, like, his. That's the most recent one on your list. It's the most recent one. And I had to rewatch it again. That's what I actually turned off the good German to watch. And I'm glad I did, because I knew it was going to be on my list. But I was like, I don't know if this is going to resonate. It was going to be a lot lower on my list, but then when I rewatched it, I was like, this is this is hitting me exactly the way it did back then. And so if five years have gone by and this is still giving me that type of feeling, then, then this is just this is one of my movies. What are you watching? Let's do it. I can go first. You can go first. I'll go first. Because you went first with the first time ever for our top ten list. Yeah, ever. I'm going with a movie. This is the only movie that I've seen since I've been watching the Soderbergh movies. But, a movie that I had an unbelievably great time seeing last night in black and white. The director's cut of Frank Darabont. So the Mist. Oh, where did you see it? It was playing at the American Cinematheque, and, and it was man sold out. And, the crowd was there for it. Frank Darabont and Tom Jane Thomas Jane were there to do a Q&A. Whoa, cool. So cool. Like, there was nothing really. I mean, other than I'm sure you already know, but, like, the ending was. Yeah. There about wrote it and Ted tell Stephen King and he told Stephen King if you don't like it. It's not that the movie. I'm just not going to make the movie. So you have to like this ending. And I didn't know what the ending was. Oh, you've never seen it? No. Dude, this fucking got away from me. I've always wanted to see this is what happens next. And I'm like, yeah, the fuck. God damn so good, man. I really liked it. Really liked it. I love that it's better in black and white, honestly, because the, the, the computer graphics play a lot better in black and white. So it just, it looks so much better and I, I much prefer in that I own the, the version that has all the different versions on it. So yeah, Ali and I love that one. We love The Mist and it was great. It's so much fun. Yeah. Oh that's a great pick and I'm glad you got to see it in the theater. Mine. It's not a double down of sorts. I've been touching on it as we go. These commentaries, you got to listen to these commentaries is he did a bunch for his own movies, The Informant and Prior. Nothing after the informant. I'm going to briefly touch on the occasional commentaries. He has done for other movies on the actual DVD and Blu rays. He did three with Mike Nichols for Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? The Graduate, which are both like, you're going to learn so much about cinema. One I never seen. I've seen the movie, but I never listen to this commentary for catch 22, not the best Mike Nichols movie. Even he would say that. But I never really hear Steven Soderbergh impressed, and he is so impressed with how this was shot that Nichols just keeps laying down facts and sort of like, you're kidding me. What, like you didn't blow up that plane? And he goes, no, it just flies behind the mountain. So it was really fun to listen to. But even on the day trippers, he does a commentary for that with the director. He does a commentary with John Boorman for Point Blank. He has a commentary with Gary Ross for Seabiscuit. That's actually really good. He does one with Tony Gilroy on The Third Man. Oh, please go listen to a Steven Soderbergh commentary. They're so good. Essentially, sex lies through The Informant. Not all of them. Not all of them, but a lot of them have commentaries that he did of his own movies, but I wish he still did them. At least he still makes movies. He didn't retire. So this will be one of the longest episodes and our five years of podcasting. I'm so glad we finally did this. 35 movies. There's so much more we to talk about all the the documentaries, the TV shows. We could go on and on, but man, the fact that traffic is our best, just feels really good. It does. It's right. A great way to end the right way. This was really fun. This is great thing went how I wanted to. Everything went according to plan. Steven Soderbergh keep making movies. I will be there opening day to see all of them. Even black bag even the good German. Well, the good German. Let us know what you're thinking about the good German guy. Island X Instagram black box at white w underscore podcast. But as always, thank you so much for listening and happy watching! Yes, it's. I don't turn the chairs I put on the tables, try to find the keys to 50 million people. They call me the seeker. I've been set, you know, I've. I don't get to give while master till the day I die. This. Is for me till the end. Hey, everyone. Thanks again for listening. Send us mailbag questions at. What are you watching podcast at gmail.com or find us on Twitter, Instagram and Letterboxd at W underscore podcast. Next time. The What Are You Watching? New Hollywood Film Project is back! Dedicated listeners of the pod will know that my movie challenge for all of 2025 is that I must watch John Carpenter's Halloween at least once a week. We're about halfway through the year. I've seen the damn film 26 times so far this year, so we're going to use the next episode to talk about Carpenter's 1978 and Halloween. Stay tuned. I'm a seeker. I'm a really desperate man.