Over Here, Over There

Citizen Dan: BBC Five Live Interview, Trumps First 100 Days

• Dan Harris and Claudia Koestler • Season 3 • Episode 23

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In this episode, Dan Harris discusses the first 100 days of Donald Trump's second term as President of the United States with BBC Five Live host Laura McGhie, highlighting the chaos and controversies that have characterized his administration. The conversation explores Trump's global impact, particularly through his tariff policies, and the influence of figures like Elon Musk. The role of social media in shaping Trump's presidency is examined, along with his fluctuating popularity and the constitutional limits on Trump's potential future terms.

Takeaways

  • Trump's second term has been marked by chaos and controversy
  • He has exported chaos globally, affecting international relations
  • Tariffs have significant implications for global economies, including the UK
  • Elon Musk's financial influence supports Trump's administration
  • Social media remains a powerful tool for Trump's messaging
  • Trump's popularity is declining despite initial high approval ratings
  • The stock market's performance is a key concern for American voters
  • Constitutionally, Trump cannot run for a third term, but speculation exists
  • Trump's base remains loyal, but he may struggle to win broader support
  • Concerns about authoritarianism and undermining democratic institutions persist


Sound Bites

  • "He's exporting chaos across the world."
  • "He is a master showman."
  • "54% is not being hugely popular."

Dan Harris (00:00.216)
Hello and welcome to Over Here Over There, your podcast across borders. I'm Dan Harris and in a moment, you'll hear my discussion with BBC Radio 5 Live's host Laura McGee about Donald Trump's first 100 days of his second term as president of the United States. But before that, please don't forget to like and subscribe to the podcast and share this episode. Your support is very important, and we'd really appreciate it. Thanks for listening, and now over to Laura.

Laura McGhie
Donald Trump is rapidly approaching the 100-day mark in this, his second term as US President. It's not been without controversy, from a scandal over leaked text messages about a US military operation to deportations and a huge shake-up in global trade. And we didn't even mention his tough talk on Greenland, the Panama Canal, and even Canada.

Of course, a lot can change in a few weeks and much of his controversial tariffs policy has been temporarily rolled back. So what happens next then? Well, Dan Harris is a UK-based US political commentator. Originally from upstate New York, he's worked at the White House and on Capitol Hill. He now hosts the Global Affairs podcast over here, over there. He says the first few months of Trump's second presidency have been anything but quiet.

Dan Harris
I would say that he's done a good job at exporting chaos as well throughout the world. In his first term, the chaos was really within the United States, pretty much. You saw the circus that was going on in Trump 1, but in Trump 2, that circus has gotten even bigger in the United States, but he's exported that to the rest of the world and the rest of world is just reeling as to, you know, looking at each other like what did we do wrong? What brought this on? And so, in that you have to go into psychoanalysis in order to find out what exactly motivated him to do what he's done as far as the tariffs go, and a lot of the executive orders, and just what's gone into his first hundred days. It's going to be fascinating to look back at this, you know, from a historian's point of view as to why this happened, because when you look back at previous presidents, all the way back to Washington, this is a definite break with presidential history as far as what he's done. He's done pretty much just the opposite of what most presidents have done in order to build a reputation, protect the United States, increase our relationships with countries around the world, and so on and so forth. With Trump, you feel like it's a bit of nihilism. He's really there. He's undermining a lot of the democratic institutions, norms and behaviors. What he's also doing is he's just clearing out the resistance to his policies or his wants, and his actions. So he's really, and this is all summed up through project 2025, which your listeners may be somewhat familiar with as far as really.

Project 2025 is really about creating a unitary president, someone who's all powerful and this really strong executive. We have three branches of government, which are supposed to be co-equal. Well, at the moment, they are not. And the presidency has gained significant strength and power, given what Donald Trump is doing. 


Laura McGhie

What's incredible is if you actually look at a list of all the things that he has done in the last three months or so. One of these things would have been a massive change or a massive decision, but all of them together are just incredible. He threatened to take Greenland by force. He tried to seize control of the Panama Canal, annex Canada. There were those extraordinary scenes that were broadcast from the Oval Office between Vladimir Zelensky, Donald Trump, and JD Vance. Just one of those things would have been a standout moment in the first three months of his first term back.

It's incredible to think he's done so many things. What for you is a standout moment, a moment that you read or you saw and thought, wow, I could not have imagined that this would have happened. 


Dan Harris

You listed them and there are 220 executive orders as well, which is the most by a multiple than any other president. But you're not going to believe this, but the thing that shook fear into me was actually in Trump won when he was at the Helsinki conference, and that scene with Vladimir Putin and telling the world that he believed Vladimir Putin more so than his own intelligence services, Russian influence on the 2016 election. You know, was there Russian interference? He supported Putin over his own intelligence services.

But that actually is not what I'm scared of most. It was during that meeting, Trump dismissed the translator, his own translator, and went for two hours and had a one-on-one, including Putin's translator, nobody else. And they had a little conclave of their own. And it wasn't reported. There was no record. And that in itself is against US regulation because everything a president does needs, especially a meeting with a foreign dignitary, needs to be recorded. So you just wonder what happened in that meeting. Because a lot of things that since then have really been what does Putin, what's Putin's influence over him? He lost in 2020, but he's carried on now more with a vengeance in 2024 and really couldn't put a smoke packet in between him and

and Vladimir Putin and his admiration for leaders like Putin and other authoritarians. And so that to me is really the playbook along with Project 2025, that he's following and that he admires and aspires to. 


Laura McGhie

If we talk a little bit about the tariffs, Dan, those might claim that their lives in the UK aren't impacted by decisions that Donald Trump makes across the pond.

But the tariffs seem to be one thing that might change that, that actually he is now possibly going to make big changes for countries that don't have him as their president. 


Dan Harris

Yes. And this is what I mean by exporting chaos and the influence, quick, it's amazing how globalized the world is. That also was something in the background you think, wow, 

Dan Harris (07:07.758)
He's announced this and obviously the power and the influence of the American economy, it just goes to show that America's reach. America is the biggest economy and it imports a lot from the world. And everyone hopes to sell into America. even, our discussions here in the UK, we talk about making it in America or selling into that big market. I've worked on both sides of the Atlantic.

And it's great that when you go to sell something, you can sell it starting in California and you can sell it all the way over to New York, and you can do quite well. So if you make it in America, you've made it. So America has just drawn in imports over the decades, over the centuries. And it's a powerful market. Even when the trade balance goes against us, we are the market that everyone still wants to get into.

So exporters and lot of most of the world trade with a market like that in the United States, it's bound to have an impact. so in here, like Rachel Reeves (UK Chancellor of the Exchequer) is, I'm sure, she's very, very concerned as far as how much headroom she will have, if any, now that these tariffs have been put on and what kind of budget she's going to be left with to deal with our domestic issues here.

In the UK for all the programs, all the needs and wants that need to be addressed here. And that goes for most of the world as far as their own domestic policies, so because of the United States. So it has a major impact. In fact, there are forecasts out there that say UK growth might be halved because of what Trump has done. Just because he believes that tariffs are the right thing to do. And of course, all the economists in the world, even his old university at the University of Pennsylvania, the Wharton Business School, think otherwise. But he has had this in his mind and he's talked about it since the 1980s. And he's not changed his mind since. And I doubt over that course of the 40 years that he actually knows how or recognizes how tariffs really work. He doesn't seem to know that, but it's a tax on his own people and so and what it can do. So yeah, it has tremendous influence both domestically, as people have been warning them, and certainly over here and in the UK and internationally. 


Laura McGhie

I think it's probably difficult to change Donald Trump's mind. I would, I've never met the man, but I would assume it would be quite difficult to go into a room and try and change his mind on something that he thinks he knows better on.

He surrounds himself by people that support him and very much think the same way as him. Talk to me a little bit about the relationships that we've seen come out of this first 100 days, these first 100 days, one of them being Elon Musk. 


Dan Harris

Well, Elon Musk, that's, how long do we have here? 


Laura McGhie

We've got as long as you need?

(laughter)


Dan Harris

Well, let's face it, what does Elon Musk bring to the party? What does he bring to the administration? Money.

And that's the first and foremost. He is, I would say, the second wealthiest man in the world, the wealthiest man in the world, which most people don't talk about is Vladimir Putin. But you don't know that because he keeps most of his wealth offshore and all that. But certainly, he, Elon Musk is right up there as far as being the wealthiest person in the world. And he makes contributions to political action committees that support extreme right-wing policies and had donated something like $270 million to Trump's campaign through these political action committees. That is, you know, that's very powerful. And he also threatens, and he backs up what Trump wants, basically with financial power. And so he was rewarded for that. So we've seen through being put at the head of Doge, thinking that he's going to supposedly make the government more efficient by laying off and undermining the agencies and government institutions in the United States. But there's nothing efficient about it. He was just slashing and burning. But that's what Project 2025 is about, just undermining. So he was really going to follow that playbook, according to Project 2025. But it shows that there has been pushback.
And I think you probably want to get to a question: how do Democrats and the rest fight back against that? And I think we've seen a bit of that through (an election) he lost, the Democrats won a judgeship. Who would ever hear of a judgeship election in Wisconsin? Why would that be even important? Well, it was a battleground, a test for Elon Musk, because he was putting a lot of money into that, like $50 million or so, just on a judgeship in Wisconsin and the Wisconsin voters saw that happening and his candidate lost by 10 points. So his star suddenly just sank a great deal. So now, he's, and along with that, obviously what we've heard in the news, which we all know about his stock and Tesla stock has really plummeted because of his reputation and what he's doing and how he's behaving. And so

The world is voting with their pocketbooks and not buying his products and his services and his stock has taken a hit. And so he's got pressure now and he's pulling back from the administration. They're not going to say that he's been fired because that will never happen. Trump will never fire him. don't think he'll go try to go as quietly back to Tesla and concentrate a bit, a bit, a bit more on his companies. And I'm sure, though he'll have a lot of influence of sorts still because he will still be funding campaigns and making his voice heard. But on a day-to-day basis, he won't be wielding that chainsaw. Maybe it'll be somebody else doing that. 


Laura McGhie

Do you think, Dan, that Donald Trump's use of social media has shaped his presidency, both the first time round and in this second time? 


Dan Harris

Well, the first time it was quite important because it really put him on the scene. had a large, large following through to Twitter, and everyone was hanging on every tweet. He would tweet, as we all know, late into the night, and by the morning, you'd have 30 or 100 tweets from Donald Trump sometimes. Even as president, that's just crazy to be honest. That's just for that to happen. Now, he doesn't use X, but he uses Truth Social, and he's got, I think, 10 million followers. But even then when he puts something out, now he's back in the presidency, even if he puts it on Truth Social or wherever he puts it, but you know, Truth Social, people can report on it. So even if it's not on Facebook or Instagram or whatever, it's still now gonna be picked up by the media and amplified. So it does play a role as far as his bully pulpit goes, and what he can say and get his message out. And you have to hand it to him. He is a master showman. He will always keep your attention either through social media or the traditional media, or whatever. He will always aim to capture the world's attention every day. And we knew, and I knew this from when he was elected for the second time, thought, oh my Lord, we're going to have to pay attention every morning, you know, and get up and read what happened overnight. So, I mean, even with the time difference between here and the States, you think, okay, what did I miss for five hours? I mean, I know I'm a little bit of a geek when it comes to politics, but it does concern you the capricious nature of his behavior and how he can change his mind, especially as we've experienced with tariffs. on one day off, and then he'll reorient his tax regime to suit some country that's been nice to him. You just don't know what you're going to get. Inconsistency. 


Laura McGhie

Despite all that, he is still hugely popular. What's the secret to Trump's popularity?

Dan Harris
Well, I would sort of take issue with what you say about huge. I mean, I think he's not hugely popular. I think he was at his height in this term at 54%. Now 54 % popularity, that's at the very beginning at his inauguration. His popularity in Trump won in his first term, but didn't go above 50%. So 54 % was at least an improvement and above that mark that he was trying to get over. But in presidential terms, as far as the history of the presidency.

Usually when you start on the first hundred days, you're between 50 and almost 90%. And depending on who you are, you can go down the list of popular presidents like FDR, JFK. So 54 % is not being hugely popular, and given the divisive nature of politics nowadays, it's a little bit better than what I expected. It did surprise me that he got 54%. But since then, he has had a precipitous fall. And in fact, now polls have them around 42, 43%. So, given where we are now, that really relates to losing a point a week in popularity. And that's a big deal. And when you're president, now, and on top of that, we're still in the honeymoon period of 100 days. So that should not be happening. And why it's happening it's because of his policies that we're talking about, and his authoritarianism, which people don't like the treatment of, you know, democratic institutions and undermining them and what he's done to the media, law firms, companies. He's really, he's just trying to solidify his power base and people are reacting against that and see that Americans, I don't know what you, what everyone thinks. Sometimes they think Americans are a little bit naive or just not aware of the world around them outside of the United States, kind of insular, but they do recognize something that's going wrong, and they recognize. And of course, the main arbiter of it, really, and one of the main arbiters, I should say, is the stock market. And Americans are really invested in the stock market. Individual stocks, Americans don't get, there's about 20 % of Americans are invested in the stock market but where they really are invested is in their retirement plans, these 401k's, these IRA's, individual retirement accounts and that's about sixty percent and they make most of make the pensions up, those are pension savings and there's been a lot of anxiety over that and that the tariffs have caused with the stock market going down across across the United States and the world so that I think is the driving force because people vote with their pocketbooks and they don't like what they're seeing. 

Laura McGhie

That's really interesting, Dan. So I was going to say that the Constitution says that this has to be his final term of office and that there had been whispers that they might seek to change that to enable him to run again. But in your opinion, do you think that he actually may not even be popular enough to run again? 


Dan Harris

That is a very good question. That's a very good question.

He's always going to have this base, this MAGA base, that might shrink a little bit further, but it amounts to somewhere between like, it's around 30%, 30 to 35%. And that's still significant. So he still will have influence, certainly if not across the country, he'll have influence over his party, over the party, and he'll be able to determine which Republican candidates run, uh, you know, within that party. So that is going to be a strength. Now, can he win that way? No, he can't win that way. And because you need independents and some Democrats that splinter off and vote Republican, or something like that. The numbers from a broad general population, no, I don't think he'll be able to win that. He looks like he's a liability, but, uh, would he, could he still run? Could he still do a third term?

Constitutionally, no, it's very explicit. If you can read English and have a copy of the Constitution, you can't draw any other conclusion by saying that no, he's not supposed to. But you don't know what he's going to do. And one of his strategists, Steve Bannon, said it seems to think that there's something afoot that some way that he can become or have another term, whether that's actually through an election or some kind of appointment or something happening right during the election year. Say he declares martial law because of some war, some emergency that breaks out and he cancels the election, he continues on. What do we do then? And that's more, that's actually, that's sort of that kind of fear is gaining some traction or just people are thinking, why do these, you know, do these extreme right-wingers feel confident that something like that is possible? 

Laura McGhie

That was Dan Harris, a UK based US political commentator speaking to me a little bit earlier. He's worked at the White House and on Capitol Hill. He now hosts the Global Affairs podcast over here, over there, because can you believe it? We are approaching rapidly the 100-day mark in Donald Trump's second term as US President. Right, you are listening to BBC Radio 5 Live. Laura Magee here with you. It is 3.32. Time now to get the news on BBC Radio 5 Live.