Over Here, Over There

Trump's Shadow Over Europe

• Dan Harris and Claudia Koestler • Season 3 • Episode 25

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Summary

Over Here, Over There podcast hosts Claudia Koestler and Dan Harris discuss the current political landscape in Germany and the EU, as Dan was passing through Munich Franz Joseph Flughafen (Airport) enjoy a which also included a delicious alkohol-frei Pilsner beer. On tap was the light of recent tariffs and the shifting dynamics of international relations. Claudia emphasizes the need for Europe to find its own voice and unity in the absence of a reliable US partnership, while also addressing the implications of rising right-wing politics within the EU. Dan, being a multi-national citizen, concludes with reflections on the evolving special relationship between the UK and the US post-Brexit, with Italy and Giorgia Meloni's government getting a special mention.

Takeaways

  • The German government needs to find its backbone and voice
  • Europe must seek independence and shared values
  • China is forming alliances while the US is less reliable
  • Trust issues in partnerships are becoming more pronounced
  • Multilateralism is challenged by current US politics
  • Europe needs to present a united front for democracy
  • The UK-US special relationship is under scrutiny post-Brexit
  • Right-wing politics are gaining traction in some EU countries
  • Countries are pursuing their own agendas within the EU
  • The future of EU unity depends on overcoming internal divisions

Dan Harris (00:17)

Here we are at Munich Airport, Flughafen. You can hear airplanes going above. We're on this kind of mini grand tour, tour de force. You'll be hearing from us in Bari (Italy) next, but we wanted to stop here and pause and have a thought about what's happening in Germany and the EU in general and the next steps it's going to take regarding the tariffs and how the EU is moving on its own after dealing with Trump's tariffs and what it's doing now. Who better to talk about this than my podcast colleague, Claudia Koestler, Senior Editor at the Deutsche Zeitung? And, Claudia, what is basically the current status of things now? Where does it stand, and how are they responding to Trump's tariffs?

 

Claudia Koestler (01:05)

First of all, welcome to Munich, Dan. Welcome. Great. You're going to stop over, actually. We thought to do a little impromptu episode here. Well, the status. We are over 100 days now, so it is time to move forward and no longer be surprised about all the upcoming surprises. The German government that has been formed newly needs to very, very soon find its backbone and its voice. Find their own agenda. And there needs to be a spirit of unity in central Europe, in Germany, and throughout Europe, and of course, the EU. Because there is no longer a big brother out there. There is no longer a trustworthy US out there. So, you need to find your own agenda and you need to find your own independence and be your own man in a way. So, that is something that has to be done very quickly. Find your backbone, find your voice, know who you are and don't look out for help anywhere else than trusted friends and friends that share your values and that is democracy.

 

Dan Harris (02:29)

Yeah, I agree totally. And that's what we all hope that the EU and Germany will do. But there are overtures now also to China as well. You know, they're looking at getting a little bit closer to China and these other markets because they can't rely on the United States. So, it's unintended consequences where instead of Trump being able to rally the rest of the world against China, China is now almost boxing (in). We're being boxed in as far as the United States goes. China is forming these alliances in the Asia Pacific, making overtures here in Europe. What would be great is just what Claudia said. Alliances should be, we should be looking at alliances and shared values. But is that happening? Do we share values with the United States anymore here from a European perspective? Doesn't look that way.

 

 

Claudia Koestler (03:24)

No, it doesn't. Now, I think that we all learned that very quickly and we have feared it, but now it has turned out to be absolutely true. For a time being, the US is not going to be a trustworthy partner in politics. I'm not saying that about the American people. Definitely not. 

 

Dan Harris

You trust me?

 

Claudia Koestler

I do trust this guy. And I do have trustworthy friends over there. And there are lot of very good people out there.

 

But we are specifically talking about politics. So no, that has been shown that this is absolutely not trustworthy. So, what do you do when you have to deal with the trust issue in your partnership, whether it's private or in politics? You keep reaching out the hand, you keep the door open, but you have to find ways to become independent. That is what the entire world is actually doing now. And they're trying to form new alliances, new partnerships. They are seeking out who is in the same club, who is sharing the values. And everyone is on the lookout at the moment. So, yeah.

 

Dan Harris (04:33)

And off camera, we were talking about one word, and you said it earlier, unity. You want to talk to that. I mean, we're dealing with Trump. He wants to totally deal with it on a bilateral basis. Multilateralism is a no-go with him. Why? Because, as a bully, he gets to take advantage of the opposite. It's a zero-sum game that he thinks he can win. And in most cases, multilateralism doesn't work for him. Can you trust someone to have a proper adult relationship where both of you mutually can benefit or is it a zero-sum game? And we're seeing that he's thinking it's a zero-sum game. But what is it going forward? What should they do? What do they need to do to survive and be successful here in Europe, in Germany and in Europe?

 

Claudia Koestler (05:26)

Well, basically they do have to find their own resources and sources and their backbone. We have everything here at the ready basically. But it's been such a long-term planning and strategy that we kind of still are a little bit diverse with all our little countries over here in Europe. That is wonderful. It's such an eclectic mix. That's what Europe makes it so intriguing. But on a whole, we have to really get our mind together that we are a continent, and we are a union and we have to find our own one voice to make a strong case for democracy and shared values and Western values and be a beacon of hope for the entire world.

 

Dan Harris (06:15)

And that element of, let me, I was going to say trust, also that special relationship we talked about earlier. Now, the UK has prided itself, probably for the last 20, 30, 40 years, of saying there's a special relationship between the UK and the United States. But that's really being tested now, and it's being tested in these deal negotiations, a special deal that the UK has been trying to get ever since Brexit. But they've been slapped by; they have 10% tariffs left on them, even during these negotiations. Of course, we know what's happened to the rest of the world and to Europe in some of the tariffs. So, where do you think the special relationship is going to land? I mean, you tell me, what do you think?

 

Claudia Koestler (06:59)

Well, I'm curious what you actually think, so please don't hold back.

 

Dan Harris (07:05)

I am an Italian citizen here, so I'll let it out smiling here like a Cheshire cat. Georgia Maloni seems to be coming from the outside very quickly, as far as that special relationship with the United States. But will that last past Trump is the question. But for now, it seems like there's a special bond between the two. Obviously, they share right-wing extremist values. Would you agree?

 

Claudia Koestler (07:31)

Yes, I do agree. And this is actually the one threat (along with Hungary) that I see in the European Union at the moment, that you have a division there. You have countries that are leaning more and more to the right, and then you have those that are still clinging to the more centrist-based democracy values. So, some countries actually start to do their own agenda and try to swoop in and schmooze Trump on their own, just to get a little extra here and there. That's where it's gonna get tricky for everyone.

 

Dan Harris (08:04)

Well, I think she also positioned herself being the voice of the EU for a time, when that's a real kick in the head as far as her being the voice of the EU. They've (Meloni’s government) been Euro skeptics, Italy, for quite a while now, but anyway, we'll watch that space and we'll report on it as well.  So, we're off to as I mentioned, Bari in a few days, and we'll be maybe talking to a few

 

battalions there and getting their perspective. But in the meantime, thank you for listening. Thank you for watching. Check us out on our social media. Don't forget to…

 

Claudia Koestler (08:45)

...like and subscribe, and tell everyone about this podcast. We really cherish it when you are in touch, write a little comment, and let us know what you think.

 

Dan Harris (08:55)

So, thank you, and we'll catch you next time. Thank you for listening. 

 

Claudia Koestler

Bye.