The Donmar Warehouse's Recipe for Success

Step into the heart of London’s legendary West End Theatre scene with hosts Dan Harris and Claudia Koestler as they sit down with Silvia Melchior from the iconic Donmar Warehouse Theatre! 🎭

Discover why the West End is hailed as the best theatre scene in the world, and what makes the Donmar Warehouse a totally unique gem—an intimate space where world-class plays and Hollywood A-listers like David Tennant, Adrien Brody, and more light up the stage.

In this exclusive episode of Over Here, Over There, Silvia Melchior pulls back the curtain on the Donmar’s secrets:

• How does a small theatre attract global superstars?
• Why do celebrities choose the Donmar over higher-paying gigs?
• What challenges does the West End face, and how does the Donmar thrive against the odds?
• What can theatres worldwide learn from London’s innovative approach?
• Why is the Donmar Warehouse a role model for the arts and the future of theatre?

Get inspired by stories from behind the scenes, learn what draws stars to this intimate London stage, and find out why the Donmar Warehouse is the beating heart of the West End. Whether you’re a theatre lover, an aspiring actor, or just curious about the magic of London’s arts scene, this episode is packed with insights, inspiration, and star power!

Don’t forget to like, subscribe, and hit the bell for more exclusive interviews and deep dives into the world’s most fascinating cultural hotspots!

Chapters

• 0:00 Intro Music
• 0:03 Silvia Melchior - Business Model of Donmar Warehouse (Promo Clip)
• 1:00 Intro - Dan Harris
• 3:24 The Vibrancy of British Theatre
• 6:36 The Unique Appeal of British Theatre
• 10:20 The Intimacy of Donmar Warehouse
• 15:35 Balancing Artistic Integrity and Financial Stability
• 20:44 Innovations in Theatre Technology
• 27:50 Diversity in Theatre Productions
• 30:06 Government Support and Funding Challenges
• 34:52 The Future of British Theatre
• 39:31 The Impact of Brexit on Theatre
• 42:12 Silvia's Favourite Play
• 43:05 Outro and music

Transcript

Silvia Melchior (00:03.928)

So I guess the business model of the Donmar is based on the ability to attract really great artists. And the great artists, as in the actors, will come because they know that they get the best directors, the best designers. And so it's basically when you want to make a cake, and you go and buy all the absolute best ingredients to make the cake. And so people will come and they will have an amazing experience, and sometimes the play isn't for them because we do do new writing, and sometimes it's not speaking to you, but you know that the quality is always going to be just stunning.

Dan Harris(01:07.832)

We're here this time to lift the curtain and peek behind one of the world's most vibrant and glamorous scenes, British theatre.

and talk to a special guest from one in particular, Sylvia Melchior from the Donmar Warehouse. But before that, please don't forget to like and subscribe to Over Here, Over There, and leave a comment. You can also find more about the podcast on overhereroverthere.org on our Patreon page, where you can support the podcast and pick up some cool merch if you're so inclined. We'd love to hear from you.

London's West End is a world-renowned and cultural icon and one of the UK's biggest attractions. But it doesn't just entertain, it employs thousands and plays a crucial role in London's tourism sector, attracting visitors from around the globe.

It is also a powerhouse of economic activity. In 2022, West End theatres welcomed more than 16.4 million visitors, generating about £892 million pounds in revenue. These numbers are supposed to have risen significantly in 2023 and further in 2024.

But despite its economic performance, many London theatres, including some of the most prestigious, operate with minimal government funding. This raises intriguing questions. How does London theatre stay so vibrant despite financial insecurity? And what lies ahead for West End theatre and what can other countries learn from it?

Dan Harris(02:42.132)

To unravel these mysteries, we're thrilled to welcome a very distinguished guest as we mentioned, Sylvia Melchior from the DonmarWarehouse, an innovative theatre in the heart of the West End which has garnered critical acclaim and numerous awards over the decades despite its intimate size.

Sylvia has worked for many artistic and cultural organizations including Royal Covent Garden, the English National Ballet, the South Bank Center, and is involved as a trustee and a member with several other performing arts organizations, including the Dancers Career Development and as a trustee at Wild Arts, and co-chair of the fundraising networking group Legacy Managers Group.

Sylvia, thank you so much for being our guest today. You've had an impressive career, as we just mentioned, in the theatre and dance world. Do you enjoy the razzmatazz of the bright lights and working with performing artists, and do any in particular stand out in your mind that you've encountered?

Sylvia Melchior (04:42.126)

What a question to start with. But it's always really exciting to work with performing artists. It's seeing somebody get on stage every night and give everything to deliver a really wonderful performance, whether it's an opera singer or a ballet dancer or an actor. It's really, truly a privilege. Very recently, we had the wonderful Adrien Brody on stage here at the Donmar doing a play, a bit of new writing called Fear of 13. And that was really special. He had not done theatre before. So having somebody so famous and so A-list get on stage and just panic because he'd never had the opportunity to be in front of a live audience and to do it really kind of night after night to deliver something. That was really cool. It was really cool to see somebody, you know, so huge, suddenly look so small and terrified. It was really quite, it was really quite cool. He did a really great job. It was really, really a privilege. And then other things that, I guess, come back to memory are all the wonderful performances I saw when I was at the English National Ballet. We did spend a lot of time as a fundraiser with a lot of the wonderful supporters we had in rehearsals. So, it's like sitting in a rehearsal studio watching somebody come in and try and move time after time after time after time and just see how this tiniest bit of movement would make such a huge difference to the way that they delivered a ballet. Yeah, that was really great as well.

Dan Harris

Do you have a preference between the dance world or the stage?

Silvia Melchior

No, I don't really, don't think so. I used to think theatre was my preferred art form when I worked in ballet and I feel like now I've moved away, I really miss ballet. So don't think I have a favourite. It's a really nice, it's a beautiful kind of way of, you know, expressing something in very different forms. You've got the verbal form, or you've got the body language, and both are beautiful. So yes, I can't really say.

Dan Harris

Thank you.

Claudia Koestler (06:07.842)

Well, I was so lucky, actually to see Adrien Brody on stage at the Donmar and I was blown away. I didn't notice at all that he felt small. I thought he was very big on that stage. And I especially came over from Germany to see that. that shows that the attraction London Theatre, the West End has, and you're someone so deeply embedded in this world of theatre. What do you think makes British theatre so unique on a global stage in your eyes? And what is the current state of this industry? Is it struggling or thriving?

Silvia Melchior

I think something that makes British theatre really unique is the, I think it's fearlessness. I think there's a real appetite for risk-taking and for innovation and for trying out different things that might sound completely crazy to begin with, but could be brilliant. And I think that's something that, through the support of the Arts Council, many theatres have been able to do very successfully.

To your question about what the current state of it is, I would say that because a lot of that funding has gone, it has made it really hard for many theatres to take risks and to do something that could be a failure. that ability to indulge in potential failure has gone. think everybody has to be so much more careful now in ensuring that we get it right and the show is a success, which has made people a bit more fearful of taking risks, which I think has an impact on creativity and on innovation as well.

Dan Harris

And how does that compare to say like Broadway or other countries as far as the challenges it's faced? Because, I mean, you're talking about risk there, so you're upping in the ante as far as the performance goes and what you do operationally as well.

Silvia Melchior (08:11.414)

Yeah, I mean, you can see a similar issue, though obviously in the States, the Arts Council isn't really a thing. But I think since the pandemic, the cost of producing shows and putting shows on stage has risen massively, partly because of the cost-of-living crisis. Just everything has just gone up in price massively. And so, for commercial producers, be it in the West End or on Broadway, to take the risk of putting on a show, things have really changed and think everybody's just kind of staying away from things that feel like they might not be a commercial success. So, you see I think a lot more sort of celebrity casting, you see a lot of very well-known titles, and I think that's the main thing that I see happening at the moment. So certain of the stars get their roles, but for actors hoping to break through, it might be a little more challenging. It's definitely harder, yeah.

Claudia Koestler (09:35.288)

But the theatre that you're working for, the Donmar Warehouse, has become synonymous with theatrical excellence and success. Both Dan and I were so lucky with our respective families to actually enjoy so many performances there by most of them; we were so blown away. And I'd say some of them really were life-changingly good. So an absolutely breathtaking experience every time we came there. So, can you tell me a little bit about this misery? mean, this Donmar Warehouse is such a tiny space compared to other theatres in the West End. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it only has 250 seats or something. So, it feels quite intimate in a way.

Claudia Koestler

How do you manage that such an intimate, small theatre produces world-class theatre plays and performances and rival so much larger theatres?

Silvia Melchior

Yeah, it's a little bit of magic. The Donmar is incredibly unique. It is a very, very small space that was not built as a theatre. It used to be a banana ripening warehouse. So, it's very much just a small theatre, a small space. As you say, there are 251 seats. So, you're basically never more than four rows away. There are four rows downstairs, three rows upstairs. It's tiny. And the way that...about 32 years ago, its first artistic director, Sam Mendes, started to do some really high quality, kind of really well cast shows. And so, we started to get this reputation of a brilliant place, great artists, famous people there, with the best writers, the best directors, but you can't get in.

And so, tickets became a real premium. And so, we started having people who would pay extra. So, a whole fundraising team was born to get access to seats because they were so desperate. So the tickets themselves are really cheap, but actually getting those tickets is quite difficult. And we usually have six productions a year, each production is about eight weeks. So, if you think about 250 tickets for eight weeks, when you've got Adrien Brody and you're just a couple of rows away from him, the demand is massive. I guess the business model of the Donmar is based on the ability to attract really great artists. And the great artists, as in the actors, will come because they know that they get the best directors, the best designers. And so it's basically when you want to make a cake, and you go and buy all the absolute best ingredients to make the cake. And so, people will come and they will have an amazing experience. sometimes the play isn't for them because we do do new writings and sometimes it's not speaking to you, but you know that the quality is always going to be just stunning. And because of that legacy, because of that, I guess, brand awareness and that prestige that we have, we've always been able to attract a really brilliant audience that comes back over and over. They know what to expect, and they are happy to pay extra to make sure that they can get their seats. And that bit of fundraising is what allows us to be able to afford the quality of work that we do.

Dan Harris

Well, I don't think there's a bad seat in that whole place. And so, any seat in the Donmar is worth it as far as I'm concerned. And I've never been disappointed at all. I've always, there's been a few shows that I've gone to and thinking, I'm not sure if I'm going to be into this or not. And they've always amazed me, always blown me away. Innovative and creative, it is. I can't speak more highly of it. But how do you balance what you mentioned with the artistic integrity with the financial stability of it all. So, you got the small space 250, you can attract the big stars. So, how does that balance work financially versus the artistic pursuits?

Silvia Melchior (13:39.318)

It's balancing act, as you say. So, essentially, we have an artistic director who will make sure that the work that we present has artistic credibility. So, it's really their job. And they have a team of people that they work with, where they really focus on thinking, how do we make this show brilliant? And so, yes, we could have this super famous A-list actor in this role, but is it really the best person? So, think everything that we do is very thoughtful, is very much thinking about, is this the best version of this work that we can offer to our audiences? And a lot of thought goes into that. So, there's a really robust process for our artistic team to, I guess, assess the kind of work that we choose to do, see ourselves, because you can't do everything for everybody, that you can't be the kind of place that attracts all kinds of audiences, and we very much see ourselves as a theatre for people who are curious about really great theatre, people who are passionate about really great theatre, and so we need to deliver really great theatre. And as I said, because of the scale of the plays, because it is so small, it means that theatres, the tickets are really in high demand, and because that drives all of the philanthropy and the business partnerships that we do. So, we kind of try and keep our ticket prices low, but we make up for it by raising loads of money from people who are passionate about what we do and just want to make sure that they come here regularly.

Dan Harris

So you've got the demand and it's, that's what I was amazed at. The ticket prices are reasonable. You're getting stars right in front of you as well as very talented cast across the board. And you're just a few rows away. Yeah. I just can't say enough. I mean, anyway, that's for the West End.

Silvia Melchior (15:35.018)

It's a very, very fine balance, and we just need to make sure that everything, you know, everything is done right. We need to deliver consistently that level of quality, which makes people want to come back over and over and pay extra to make sure that they can come back over and over. I should also say that alongside, because it makes it sound like we're in kind of private club of theatre, but alongside the tickets, the top...We just keep, sorry, top price tickets you can buy at £70, or the ones you get free through your membership or your patronage. We also have a ticket scheme for young people where you can buy a ticket, top-price ticket for just £20 if you are under 35, and every show has 35 tickets available at that price. And at the same time, we also do a lot of work for schools for free. So, we have local schools that are, that have very high free meal ratio, meaning that the kids who go there are not very wealthy, and so they probably don't have a chance to go to the theatre. So we offer them tickets for free throughout the year across all the productions, and all of this is funded by fundraising.

Claudia Koestler

Where would those young people go? Can they find those cheaper tickets on the website?

Silvia Melchior

It's on the website. Yeah, you have to. It's almost like a free subscription. So, you sign up, you have to supply your proof of age, and then you have the ability to get it's almost like there's a more priority book in the window. You go in and you book your tickets.

Claudia Koestler

Okay, that's fantastic to know. Both Dan and I and our respective families have been in the audience at the Donmar. And the thing that attracts me is that it doesn't feel like I'm observing a show. It sucks me right in because it is such an intimate space and so unique. So, you are absolutely involved in the play and in this world of performances. But what attracts the actors to play there because it is certainly different to especially those A-listers to be in front of such a small scale audience. Is it the financial possibilities? Is it because the production is so unique and good? What attracts the A-listers to actually perform there? Because they could just do a movie for a million.

Silvia Melchior

It's definitely not the financial side of it because they all get paid the same industry rate, which is about 700 pounds a week. So even if you are a Adrian Brody that's what you get paid. But ironically, if you are a Adrien Brody, you can absolutely afford to do a job that pays you very little for a short amount of time. It's a lot harder to accept that salary if you are an up-and-coming young actor who might need to get an extra job in a pub to be able to still pay the rent while being paid 700 pounds a week. So, it's not that. I think it's partly the atmosphere. It's a very unique atmosphere. You are in there with this kind of tiny group of audience members and you really get their, I guess, their feedback as they watch the show. You're feeding off each other. Like the energy is constantly being exchanged.

And that's a really special thing that a big West End theatre doesn't give you as a performer, that ability to just react and see the reaction that your lines have on and your performance has on the audience. The other thing is, as I said earlier, that you know as an artist that you will be absolutely given the best opportunity to shine on a stage where you are very visible.

So, the fact that you know you'll be working with the best director, you know you'll be working with the best designer, you know that everything else is going to be absolutely top-notch. And so, your performance will really be elevated by all of those things. So, you're basically going, well, where do I want to go? Do I want to go here and get paid loads of money? Or do I want to go there and really shine and really have a chance to show what I can do? And that's why a lot of big actors want to come and work here.

Dan Harris (19:51.694)

It actually reminds me of, well, it looks like an actor's studio in a way. It's really built for their profession. It's, if you've been to it, talking to the audience here, if you've not visited the Dunbar, it's almost like theatre in the round, although not quite. But like you said, with all the actors, you get to see them up close and see all of them perform, not just someone in the back in a position, as far as blocking where they're standing and all this other stuff, you see the whole action and take it all in. So as Claudia says, you're sort of drawn into their world. So that's what I mean, to me, it feels like an actor's an actor's studio, but

Silvia Melchior

Yeah

Dan Harris(20:44.046)

Yeah, very good. Yeah, there you go. There you go. So, but when you take productions that are done really well and sometimes you move them to your like sister organizations or other theatres that you have partnerships with that have like 2,000 to 3,000 seats. How does that happen and you know, what's the secret behind creating a production which you can adapt and move to a theatre like that?

Claudia Koestler

Spot on, Dan!

Silvia Melchior

I guess it's quite difficult to replicate the atmosphere that you get in the Donmar in any other theatre that is any bigger than the Donmar. We're taking the Cherry Orchard to St. Anne's Warehouse in Brooklyn, and that has a similar vibe. It's kind of a, it's a big warehouse essentially, but it can be made slightly smaller. So, it does absolutely work in a place like that. When you take something, say Macbeth, which I know you know...So, to somewhere like The Pinter, which is a lovely Western theatre, but it is bigger, you do lose a little bit of the... You lose that... So, the quality is still there, absolutely. The quality of the performance, the quality of the production, but the atmosphere and the intimacy inevitably will get lost a little bit. So, you do need to come and see at the Donmar to get that real experience.

Claudia Koestler

Right. Speaking of Macbeth, which was, I have to tell you, an absolute sensational production with David Tennant and Cush Jumbo, of course, in the leading roles. As far as I know, it has been filmed at the Donmar and it has been shown in cinemas across the world. That is something very intriguing, of course, because it can attract a larger crowd that was probably not lucky enough to get tickets for the original show. Is that a way forward to show those productions to a larger audience and attract new crowds to the theatre scene?

Silvia Melchior (22:52.046)

So obviously, we're always looking at opportunities to share the work with a bigger audience. Obviously, having the people who come and see us at the Donmar is great, but there's a huge amount of people out there who would also obviously love to see our work and don't really get to come to sit here. So, transferring to a bigger theatre is one way, and then the idea of filming something and having it broadcast, could be on the website or it could be in cinemas, that's also something that we obviously love to do because it means it makes a brand better known outside and so people might get to see it, who may get to see a play somewhere else and then come and visit for the first time when they are in London and it means we definitely get to reach a much, much bigger audience. So that's a really great thing to do. It's hugely expensive, I should say, to record something because you have to have all the cameras in for usually a couple of performances. 

When you do that, you can't have a real audience in; you have to sort of stage the audience a little bit because they have cameras in the way all the time. And sometimes the cameras are on stage, so they would be really disruptive if you were trying to see the play. So, you basically lose a couple of performances, and obviously, with the equipment and all of the editing costs a huge amount of money. S,o we usually have to partner with another organization. So, like NT Live, for example, or Trafalgar for Macbeth, they will kind of...They have the equipment, have the skills, and so they'll come and do it. And then we either share the costs and then share the box office, or they do everything and then take everything.

Claudia Koestler

After it's been in the cinemas, are you planning to release it on DVD or on a streaming website or something like that?

Silvia Melchior (24:33.006)

Possibly, I don't know at this stage, I'm afraid. I think we're just going to see how the cinema run goes, and then it'll be a shame not to make it available for purchase. It's just, I don't know what but…

Dan Harris (interlude)

You're listening to Over Here Over There with your hosts, Claudia Koestler and me, Dan Harris. We're speaking with our special guest, Silvia Melchior, the Director of Strategic Development and Fundraising at the Dunbar Warehouse in London. We'd like to thank some of our partners and friends who helped make this podcast possible: Tim and Catherine Mountain at Evenlode Films and Productions, and Chris Davis at Chris D. Projects Web Design. Check out our website at overhereoverthere.org and our social media channels. Please don't forget to like, subscribe, and share this episode. We'd really appreciate it. Now, back to our show. 

Dan Harris

One of the things that was very innovative, we mentioned earlier how innovative the Donmar is and what you were talking to about that we experienced with Macbeth is the binaural technology, the headphones, and bringing sound right into your ears within the space, the Donmar. What role do you think technology plays in modern theatre production and audience engagement, and are there any innovations that you're thinking on top of the binaural technology that we experienced?

Silvia Melchior

Yeah, mean, technology is something that can really open a whole load of creative avenues. And I think it's really interesting to see how technology can be incorporated in a lot of the plays that I have seen and we've had the chance to work on. Something that has been quite exciting recently that I've seen in a couple of shows has been the use of live camera work. So, I don't if you saw Dorian Gray with Sarah Snook in London, I think it's transferring to Broadway as well. She plays all of the characters in Dorian Gray, and quite often, she's filmed live, and the results of the filming are visible right next to her. So, you kind of have multiple screens on stage, some of it showing herself as she acts and then some others showing pre-recorded images, and that creates a really surreal staging, and it's, I think, technically really, really amazing. So, I've seen that in a few performances. We actually had something called the human body, where a lot of it was being filmed, as well as camera work live on stage. So that's really exciting. There's a lot of talk about what AI will do to the sector. So, no idea at this stage, but we'll see. But yeah, the technology is definitely something that is really worth exploring, you know, every opportunity, I think. 

Dan Harris

Yeah, I really like what you did in The Human Body. You know, like you say, with the real-life kind of news reporting right there and flashing it up behind. So, you had that extra kind of film noir feeling behind it all. And as well as the stage, it was just very, very innovative, very innovative. 

Claudia Koestler

Wow.

I mean, let's talk about diversity. London is, in my eyes, quite a diverse city, and the theatre scene as well in London. Is that something you use as a conscious strategy when it comes to production choices, casting or something like that? Or does it just happen? How conscious do you plan ahead in that regard?

Silvia Melchior (28:18.094)

I think there is definitely conscious planning. I think the, I guess, where it comes from is a desire to think about the traditional makeup of theatre being quite a white, quite middle-class industry, whether it's behind the scenes or on stage or on the creative side. And so, there's a whole load of demographics that are not really being represented. And so you are missing a connection with specific audience segments because they are not really seeing themselves. They're not seeing their stories. not, they're not given an opportunity to experience something that feels relevant to them, and being performed by people who look like them. And so I think there has been for the last quite a few years now, a real drive to correct that. So I think right now, quite a lot of the choices are happening. I wouldn't say by chance, but not really by chance. It's just that by nature, the pool of people who come forward as directors, as lighting designers, as actors is much more diverse. And so, as a natural result, the makeup of the creative team and the company is more diverse. But that is the result of a lot of strategic work that has been done to make sure that that happens.

Dan Harris

Do you get any government funding? How has the support from the government been? Cut the cuts that have been happening, I guess as well.

Silvia Melchior (30:01.806)

So we used to get funding, we used to get about 8% of our total funding, which is pretty low anyway, from the Arts Council. In the last round of review by the Arts Council, we lost all that funding. They decided that we were no longer going to be part of their portfolio. The portfolio gets refreshed every three years. So, I don't know what's going to happen in the future. It might be that we choose not to.

Requests to go back into the portfolio because I think we're finding that things are working okay for us at the moment. I don't know. But certainly, yes, it's the cuts that happened in the last round, partly because there's just not as much money available, having impacted a lot of theatres. So, we were one of the theatres that were impacted, I guess, fully because we lost all the funding, but many other organisations saw their funding cut.

Claudia Koestler

My god, wow. That is quite troubling in a way.

Silvia Mellchior

I guess, you know, it's I guess the government that has to make quite tough choices, isn't it? It's like there's really not very much money at the moment going round, and not just in the UK, but I think across.

Dan Harris (31:16.824)

But you mentioned earlier with Donmar being in such demand and the combination of all your ways you've got it operationally and just the position of it in the market in the West End. You're just, you know, you're doing okay?

Silvia Melchior

We're doing okay. was saying we have a sustainable financial model that means we can do what we want to do in a way that doesn't have a, it doesn't hold us back for sure.

Claudia Koestler

But do you think that the government should take some measures to ensure sustainability and growth of British theatre? Because it is important on so many levels to have a thriving art scene and a thriving theatre scene.

Silvia Melchior

I, for sure. mean, you can, of course, you can argue that it makes financial sense, it makes business sense, it's great for skills, because we do a lot of training. It's good for education because we do spend a lot of time with young people. It's just good for people because entertainment is great. Just being able to go to the theatre is great. But I'm also fully aware of the competition for funds that exists at the moment in all of the public sector. You've got the NHS that's underfunded, you've got housing issues, you've got real problems in terms of the energy infrastructure that is completely underdeveloped. So, of course, if you are the government, you have to make some choices and you have to think about, you know, what your voters would want you to do. And I don't know how big the portion of voters are, so I completely understand it. I do think that there are other ways in which the government can support the arts sector that aren't necessarily just by giving money directly via the Arts Council. I think there's absolutely a way of incentivising private giving, whether it's corporations through tax benefits or whether it's by just really educating people through philanthropy.

So, I think there are lots of different ways. I mean, we do also get theatre tax relief, which is incredibly helpful at the moment. So, we do get, we've got the ability to claim back on some tax because of what we spend on productions. So that's hugely valuable. So, there are lots of different ways that the government can support. It's just how loud of an argument we can make for why we are worthy of that support.

Dan Harris

So the message to any government minister or policymaker is be creative and innovative with your support during these times. Because there was a 22 billion pound funding gap when the government came on and then now it finds that it's 40 billion. So, the problem is getting larger as far as…

Silvia Melchior

For sure,

Dan Harris

So, what would you say, given what you said, what's your main message to the government?

Silvia Melchior (34:16.191)

I think the message would be to just have an open and regular conversation with people in the sector because obviously we are best placed to tell the government what our issues are, what our needs are, and we can help in coming up with creative ways in which we can get support. it's not just, you know, you have to think about us and you have to find a way to fix this. Just talk to us regularly, and then we can come to some conclusion or together with it works best if there's 

Claudia Koestler

And is there anything the public, you wish the public to do more to support the arts, apart from going to the theatre, of course, or becoming a Patreon?

I think just trying out different things. So not necessarily always looking for the things that they know they're going to love, or just going to see your favourite play for the 15th time, or you're going to see that show because it's got a super famous person on it. I think, you know, try just be curious, I think. So don't always just do the obvious thing. Try out different things. And I fully appreciate that. It's hard to go out when it's cold and, you know, London is a big place and getting home is hard and tickets are expensive and, you know, you buy one ticket, it's however much and you buy two, is twice that and then you want to have dinner out. so suddenly becomes several hundred pounds for a night out, which, you know, you can just be at home and get delivery. I don't know, delivery and Netflix, and you're still having a lovely time, but you know, try it, try something new, go out of your comfort zone. It’s my suggestion.

Dan Harris(35:57.506)

I would say, I mean, for this podcast, we're over here, over there, and we say, how do we see others and others see us? And how do we learn across the divide? And, that's our mantra. But what could other countries learn from, like the Donmars approach, or the West End's approach to theatre, do you think?

Silvia Melchior

Well, guess the Donmar’s approach to the West End is so incredibly different, right? Because we are a charity, we don't work commercially; we're a non-profit, whereas all of the West End theatres are big commercial operations, and some of them are run on a very large scale. But I think there is something, the way that, I guess, the UK subsidised or non-profit theatres work is somewhere halfway between the European model and the US model. So you can, if you are in Europe and you are fully funded by your government, and you might now start to think about how you generate additional revenue, there's a lot that you can learn from places like the Donmar or some of our theatre theatres in London and indeed in the UK in how you can use your asset to generate more money and have more to do more. And I guess on the other side of the argument, I think if you are completely reliant on fundraising, like most theatres in the US are, it can be interesting to look at the freedom that you have when you can take those risks because you have got some kind of government funding that allows you to not have to worry about box office and audiences all the time and, you know, develop something even if you have no idea if the audiences are going to like it or not, but it feels exciting. So there's something about both sides that I think is, it works really well in the UK. It's a really sort of soft spot in between the two.

Claudia Koestler (38:02.518)

And are there any other aspects of theatre scenes in other countries that you would like to see more in London?

Silvia Melchior

This is really hard. I think I would love to see...which is such a fundraiser thing to say though. The way that things work in the US, because everything is so dependent on donors, it means that the creatives and the actors work more closely with the theatre to help make sure that those donations come through. And I find that in the UK, that's really hard. Like a lot of artists and creatives are really kind of...they're a bit scared of money, they're a bit scared of asking for money, they don't really like talking about money. And so having people really involved in all of the activities that we do, whether it's events, meet and greets, you know, could be anything, dinners, they're really reluctant, and that really bothers me. It just makes my work really hard.

Dan Harris

We know it's going to be a kind of a tough next five or 10 years for the economy and the UK and the budget. I mean, you're very international. bring in people from all over the world into your theatre, I know. But where do see the future of the West End or London generally, and particularly the Donmar over the over that time over the next five to 10 years?

Silvia Melchior (39:31.34)

To be completely honest, I don't think it's particularly rosy. I think it's going to be really tough. I think the smaller organizations are really going to struggle. And so I think there might be a little bit of a slump before it gets better. I think at the moment, it's similar like London, there's so much choice. There is so much on offer. There is so much wonderful work and people are...

They take that for granted sometimes. We have seen during the pandemic and post-pandemic, lots of really brilliant small companies and theatres just disappear. And I think it might be that we need to get to a stage where a few more disappear before people start to notice and start to do something about it. I think it's going to be quite hard for the next few years to make a really compelling argument that we as a sector are really crucial, because there is so much need for, you know, there's just so much going on in the world at the moment. you know, if people can't get their healthcare or they can't get on the property ladder, like they can't afford their rent. Yeah, this is great, but they're not going to worry about that. So, I think it might just be that we just have to sort of try and navigate the next few years and see some casualties before people take notice of how much the cultural sex really matters.

Claudia Koestler

You mentioned the pandemic, but what about Brexit? What impact had Brexit on the theatre scene?

Silvia Melchior

I don't think you had a major impact, know. I really, so as I said, you probably know this, but I am Italian. So, like Brexit wasn't morally for me. And I was just kind of hoping that everything would go really badly wrong, but actually some of the visa applications are a little bit trickier in terms of like working internationally. And then for the UK, I think there's less availability of some of the funds that we used to be able to access from Europe, but overall I'm not sure that he has had a really major impact. It has impacted loads of other things, especially sort of financially and economically, but I think in terms of the theatre itself, not massively I'd say.

Dan Harris

Do you employ a lot of British employees or a mixture of?

Silvia Melchior

It's mixture. Yeah, it's a mixture. As I said, I'm Italian. Thereare people from Poland, people from Canada, and the team, people from the US, somebody from France. So yeah, it's quite international.

Claudia Koestler

Okay, so finally, if you could stage any production with an unlimited budget and also your dream cast, what would that be and why?

Silvia Melchior

So, my favourite play of all time is The Importance of Being Earnest by Oscar Wilde. And I've never seen a bad version of it, just because it's such a good play that you cannot destroy it. It doesn't matter how badly you stage it. It's just so good that it doesn't matter. So, I would love to find a stunning version of that and somehow have Timothée Chalamet in it.

Dan Harris (42:51.284)

Right.Maybe do all the roles. I'd be absolutely fine with that. There you go.Hot ticket at the moment he is isn't he?

Claudia Koestler

It would be rare to come by.

Silvia Melchior

Yeah, for sure.

Dan Harris (43:05.902)

Well, we'd like to thank our special guest Sylvia Melchior of the Donmar Warehouse. You can send us your feedback via our website at overhereoverthere.org, where you can also find our Patreon page, where you can become an OHOT member and pick up some cool merchandise, as we said. Check us out on our social media channels as well, and tell us about your attendance and support for theatre and performing arts in your city or region in the comments below.

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