Over Here, Over There

America Pushes Back - What Next?

• Dan Harris and Claudia Koestler • Season 3 • Episode 39

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Over Here, Over There looks back at the NO KINGS march and the Democratic election successes that followed, using both to outline a path forward for strengthening democratic norms, behaviours, and institutions that have been undermined by the Trump Administration. Not since the Civil War has the United States been so internally divided and under threat, even as foreign adversaries grow stronger and more audacious in their attempts to weaken the US and its allies. Claudia and Dan explore innovative strategies to counter these destructive forces—tactics that can be implemented now—and urge Democrats to elevate leaders who are bolder, more forward-thinking, and more effective in confronting Trump’s anti-democratic agenda.

More ideas and strategies will be explored in future episodes, so stay tuned. For now, listen, engage, and join the conversation—and please don’t forget to like, subscribe, and share the episode with thoughtful people like yourselves.

Stay for the bonus track: our adopted theme tune, “10%” by The Pleasure Bombs — now an anthem of the pro-democracy movement. Hear the song’s backstory in our previous episode, where we interviewed the band in Bari, Italy. 

You'll find The Pleasure Bombs' other great hits on Bandcamp. Just create an account and sign in, and enjoy tunes like 'Plunge into the Sea', 'The Lovelist Weed', and more. 

We took a short break, but we’ve been busy building new content. Much more is on the way. Visit our website at overhereoverthere.org for updates.

Over Here, Over There: "America Pushes Back - What Next?"

 

Dan: The Dems Punch Back – Finally! No Kings and election success, but does that mean the Democrats are back? We are looking ahead, with some big questions, and even bigger answers:  Hi, I’m Dan Harris.

Claudia: And I’m Claudia Koestler. As a journalist, I’ve reported on many elections and marches around the world—but the massive No Kings protests and widespread Democrat victories felt personal. Today, you’ll hear the voices from No Kings marches and how the Democrats can keep winning. Spoiler alert: Dan has a plan!

Dan: It’s more of a to-do list, but hopefully it’ll help the pro-democracy forces move to the next level.  

Claudia: Every bit helps, and your points are gold for everyone who wants to turn the tables to something better! But before we get into the next steps for the pro-Democracy, anti-Trump movement, and Dan’s playbook for it, don’t forget to like, smash the subscribe button, and share the podcast. We’d appreciate it, which helps feed the algorithm beasts. And be sure to add your comments down below. What do you think should be done next to save the US and democracy? 

 

(Music intro)

 

Claudia: The No Kings grassroots march was a precursor to what was going to come in the election. 7 million marchers across all demographics was impressive.  Some prominent politicians were involved, Senators Bernie Sanders and Chris Murphy, and House Representatives Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) and Jamie Raskin, but it was really led by 200 grassroots organisers, like Indivisible (Leah Greenberg and Ezra Levi), the ACLU, MoveOn, Public Citizen, American Federation of Teachers (AFT) & Service Employees International Union (SEIU), and the 50501 Movement. The Democrats weren’t the organisers, but they undoubtedly benefited in the elections that followed.

Dan: First, let’s remind ourselves of what it was like in the city of the Founding Fathers, in Philadelphia. Asking the questions is Mark Brack. [AUDIO, CLIP 1: Philadelphia, where we called it ground zero in last year’s presidential election];

Claudia: Over at the West Coast, I asked Ed Keller about the situation in Portland, Oregon, and the pictures are courtesy of Ed and also of my colleague Linus Freymark: [AUDIO, CLIP 2:]

Dan: Back on the East Coast, in Rochester, NY, Andrew Harris and Martha Terilli did the asking [Video, CLIP 2]:

Claudia: You heard the fervour, the emotion, and the determination in those marchers. Americans feel the consequences of Trump’s politics in their wallets and homes, and took them into the voting booth. Zohran Mamdani was elected NYC Mayor, coming from 1% in the polls early on to over 50% and a record turnout in the election by concentrating on affordability and cost of living, and equality; Abigail Spanberger, D-VA, and Mikie Sherill, D-NJ, both moderates, won their governor races by comfortable margins; and Dems won down-ballot and local elections across the country. 

Dan: Yes, seven million Americans, one historic march followed by big Democratic wins. ‘No Kings’ was not just another headline: Healthcare lost. Jobs gone. And the ICE raids hit a nerve. Signs read: 'Stop kidnapping our neighbors.’ This isn’t just abstract anymore—it’s about friends, families. Americans across many demographics don’t like what they’re seeing, and marched and voted accordingly.

Claudia: But, as historic as the No Kings and election results were, will it be disruptive enough to turn the tide? In Europe, these numbers could topple leaders and governments. Protests use economic disruptions—when Macron tried to raise the retirement age, they didn't just march. They shut down trains, closed schools, and blocked refineries. The economy stopped until he backed down. So, perhaps No Kings could have been even more effective if there were boycotts of Amazon goods and Tesla cars.

Dan: There were solidarity rallies in Paris, London, Madrid, Berlin - though those were mainly expats showing support. But what about the media coverage? 

Claudia: It made headlines, and those headlines made clear that something is happening over there, decent Americans are pushing back, and that push back has translated into election results across the country

Dan: It also won the airwaves in the States. There was wide coverage on legacy and independent media, so the pushback against Trump from the grassroots is breaking through, as we saw in the MAGA sphere’s reaction. 

Claudia: Still, much more needs to be done. 

Dan: Numbers matter, but if we look at Europe, we see power means staying disruptive—economically, politically. Here’s what science says: if 3.5% of a population resists, change happens. We saw over seven million, but to tip the scales, it needs to double. This movement is halfway there: time to crank it up! In the future, even more can be done to be more effective; you've got to turn that momentum and energy and institutionalize it, like setting up campaign offices, recruiting volunteers from those who marched, grassroots fundraising, voter registration and voter turnout drives. 

Claudia: Let me say, however, that Mamdami’s campaign pledges of free bus service, universal childcare and rent freezes aren’t anything radical in Europe. These are normal. So, when we hear from those on the extreme right, his MAGA supporters, and even some from his own party, I say look what happens over here in Europe, and you’ll see parties across the political spectrum supporting these types of policies.  Why? Because they are popular and, for the most part, work well and help provide a decent standard of living.

Claudia: We’ve already given some very detailed possibilities of what every citizen can do. 

Dan: Yes, so, first, improving the protests across the country by increasing their size and frequency, and integrating different sectors (teachers, farmers, government employees) against those who support Trump and his authoritarian regime. However, make sure you have the support of the population, their mindshare.

Claudia: But we need to appeal to parties, politicians, and aspiring leaders as well - there is a void and a demand for good leaders who have a long-term vision many can get behind. I know you have some excellent pointers. And please, be specific, Dan, because people need real strategies. So, what needs to happen next.

 

Dan: Yes, it’s time for ‘Specificity Man’, able to leap tall generalizations in a single bound! (that’s a riff from the 1950s Superman TV show). Okay. I’ve developed some strategies for the future on how to restore democracy and good leadership that benefits all. Today, I’ll focus on a few: finding new voices for 2028. Next week, I’ll tackle the rest in a monologue, so watch out for that. My first point in the playbook: 

Dan: Okay, first: let’s talk big and small. Big – get out even more marchers, keep growing the numbers, hit 10 -15 million, and point them at specific targets (e.g. Congress, SCOTUS, DOJ, WH, federal institutions), and have strategies and tactics that support immigration, human rights, social welfare, and cost of living. Then do the small but important things well, like voter registration drives, school board races, and recurring town halls. Make every protest a foundation for action—and build data-driven follow-up—know who showed up, and bring them back. Make every protest a first step, not an endpoint. 

Claudia: They should also take our theme song “10%” from the Pleasure Bombs: "can you increase democracy by ten percent?” and use it as their anthem. We’ll play at the end in full in tribute to all those who participated in the ‘No Kings’ march.

Dan: Absolutely! Secondly, turn the tables on the Trump Administration and flood the zone, own the airwaves and news cycles. Be provocative yet remain non-violent and peaceful. 

Thirdly, use economic leverage. Mobilize coordinated boycotts—hit corporate Trump allies hard. Imagine millions dropping X, Amazon, Meta for a week. Real strikes—teachers, nurses, government workers. Not just symbolic, but disruptive enough to make the rich feel grassroots power. The timing of these is important, like the No Kings protest before the elections. Take one action and tell us about it on Instagram or email. We want your stories for our next episode!

Claudia: But also - and this is crucial in my eyes - you need to think internationally. If Trump succeeds in becoming a king, that gives permission to every wannabe dictator around the world. Orbán in Hungary, Le Pen in France, the AfD in Germany - they're all watching. They all want to point to America and say, "See? Democracy doesn't work." So, this is really about saving global democracy. 

Dan: Exactly. So, that’s four. You stole my thunder, but that’s okay. This is a global fight now, and the US-elections in 2026 and 2028 are going to be world elections, even though only a fraction of the world will actually be casting a vote. Coordinated and unified international support is important. We know Trump’s tariffs are hanging over every country’s head like an extortion racket or bullying tactic, but every country needs to buy into pro-democratic principles and show how they can help better everyone’s life.  

Claudia: And where does the Democratic Party need to come in? Right now, they won big in the elections across the US, but their poll numbers are poor, and they're still playing by old rules.

Dan: Saving democracy isn’t just for Democrats, so number five should be a coalition of pro-democratic forces at the grassroots, especially in politics (Dems. GOP anti-Trumpers, Independents etc.), education, the media, and all walks of life. All in, on the same page: save democracy first, debate the rest later. Forget about your differences. Just agree on pro-democratic principles and work together, almost like under a renewed and revitalised constitutional framework. The opposition to Trump and Trumpism needs to be a broad church with democracy as its top priority. I believe there are more of us than there are of them, so we have strength in numbers. So, let’s take heart in that and everything we do. We (the pro-democrats) have more to fight for than our opposition; the oligarchs and billionaires just want to protect their power and wealth.  

Claudia: Some might wonder what the objective should be. Is it specifically to get Trump out as a priority or generally defeat fascism and save democracy? 

Dan: Well, you've got to do both because they are both an existential threat. Trump is an immediate threat, but there are powers beyond Trump that want to implement Project 2025 as much as possible. That’s got to be stopped in its tracks. 

We need new leadership across the political spectrum, de facto through the midterms and up until the Presidential primaries in 2028. And that also means getting candidates, new, fresh, and talented people, like Mamdami, Spanberger and Sherill, who are authentic and believable to the electorate. A new, modern, forward-looking leadership, not just in the House and Senate, where Hakeem Jeffries and Sen. Chuck Schumer have been criticised for their weak and ineffectual leadership, but look elsewhere in the country, particularly among governors. The need for de facto leaders to take it to Trump in the run-up to the midterms and 2028. They need them to come forward now and not wait. After a party loses a Presidential election, it’s usual for there to be a leadership vacuum until after the next midterm elections. But the game has changed. They can’t wait. Come to some understanding, and don’t let the old DNC establishment stitch things up regarding who they should be, because losing two of the last three Presidential elections to a candidate like a convicted felon, malignant narcissist, and adjudicated rapist, Donald Trump, should be totally unacceptable and unforgivable.

So, have ‘Preliminary’ or ‘Prelims’ soundings featuring a spectrum of candidates from across the country. Give them a platform to promote their views on their candidacy and policies. This can be done regionally and then brought together on a national level. This will foster new ideas, creativity, and innovation, which the party badly needs. It’ll also gain airtime in the media away from Trump and MAGA, helping to build candidates’ name recognition. The powers in the DNC and Congress need to see this as an opportunity instead of a threat to their positions, which should be doable if they have the greater interest of their party and country in mind, and help avoid this political vacuum at this dangerous time.

 

Claudia: Thank you for this - I can´t wait for the other nine points! If you want to support the show, drop a rating, join the community,or find us on Patreon. If you want to support democracy, you know what to do. We’ll be back next week, finding the threads that connect borders and ideas.

 

Dan: Reach out with your stories, humor, and wisdom from wherever you are. Send us a voice memo or comment, and you might hear yourself next time. Until then—thanks for being part of ‘Over Here, Over There.’ No kings, just us. 

Outro Music, "10%", by The Pleasure Bombs