Over Here, Over There

The Big Grift - Why Trump Wants Greenland

• Dan Harris and Claudia Koestler • Season 4 • Episode 3

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Dan Harris and Claudia Koestler, hosts of the Over Here, Over There Podcast, dive deep into the Greenland controversy that's sending shockwaves through the European capitals and the world. In this impromptu dialogue they explore the reasons why the US wants Greenland, why European leaders are in emergency mode, what strategies are necessary to stop Trump, The NATO implications, and what Greenlanders would sacrifice leaving Denmark and the EU. This isn't just about ice and politics - it's about reshaping global power dynamics in real-time. From melting ice caps opening new shipping routes to massive mineral deposits, discover why this frozen island has become a new cold war battleground - and the hottest real estate on the planet. 

What do YOU think? Should Greenland stay with Denmark or go independent? Drop your thoughts and have your say! And don´t forget to hit that subscribe button and ring the notification bell for more transatlantic political breakdowns!

Claudia Koestler (00:03.726)

Hi. I'm Claudia from Over Here, Over There, the podcast across borders. I'm down here in Cornwall at the moment, seeing friends and family. But of course, there is no escape from news and headlines. So, Dan and I are going to tackle the latest in this upcoming episode. Thank you very much for tuning in and for being part of the community. Have you liked and subscribed yet? Well, please do so and tell everyone about this community and podcast because we want to grow.

 

But now, let's get on with the episode. Thank you.

 

Dan Harris (01:00.91)

Welcome to ‘Over Here, Over There’, your podcast across borders. I'm Dan Harris. 

 

Claudia Koestler

And I'm Claudia Koestler.

 

Dan Harris

And we are in, I am in Cheltenham, the Cotswolds, a lovely place that JD Vance visited earlier in the year and launched his presidential campaign for 2028. And Claudia, where are you?

 

Claudia Koestler (01:18.158)

I'm currently also in the UK. am in Cornwall. That background is not AI. It is the actual view from the place. I'm visiting friends and family down here in beautiful Cornwall. But well, the news follows you everywhere. There is no escape. Is there, Dan? I mean...

 

Dan Harris

No. Well, at least you're in the beautiful part of the world to hear that news.

 

Claudia Koestler

Well, so are you, but Charlton Hatton, the Cotswolds. Well, all the beauty in the world can't distract from what's going on politically.

 

Dan Harris

…and economically. Let's start, sort of starting with England. Should we just go to Germany? You've been in front of the news all day with your editing. What's the reaction? What do you see?

 

Claudia Koestler (02:30.334)

I mean, just to give a perspective, of course, we are talking about the latest developments between the US and Europe, especially the Greenland issue and topic. So that has been going on for a while. At first, it was taken almost like a little bit of a joke, but it has turned into a serious, serious topic at the moment.

 

And everyone back in Europe is quite worried because that is one of the problems Europe still has. And that is that it is not a united front presenting a united front. It has not one spokesperson, but there are many countries, and they are all trying to do their best to present a united front against threats like that, because at the moment, you probably, of course. Greenland is part of Denmark. Denmark is part of NATO, just like the US and other European countries. So, the try of Trump's attempt to either buy Greenland or take it by force, by military forces, would actually mean an attack within NATO countries.

 

The NATO treaty actually says that if one member is attacked, all the others stand by and help out. So, they present a united front. But it was never the topic discussed what happens if the attack is within NATO. So that is a new threat that we are all experiencing. And the European leaders are trying to grapple with the situation and get a hang of it. How to address that? Do they confront Trump? Because that sounds like he's bullying, you know, Greenland, Denmark, NATO, the EU. So do they, they need to show a united front? Who's going to be that person to speak out? That, and some of them have their own agenda. Of course, they all share the view that it is unprecedented and unheard of, and not a good move forward to have this imperialistic colonial approach of the US to get Greenland into its realm. But they are struggling with how to respond. And that is something that needs to be addressed. So there are a lot of analyses going on as to why they haven't found this

 

Claudia Koestler (04:49.626)

One voice, that one way forward to attack and, well, to address Trump and to respond to that. They are all the way still backing up in Denmark and NATO. And also, they are trying to determine whether they are going forward with a more diplomatic way? Do they go forward and be very strongly opinionated about it? Can they actually afford that? Because we are still in Europe, pretty much trying to be on a diplomatic course with the US. We are trying to be good partners. We want to have that bond that has proven so worthy and so peaceful over the last few decades.

 

We don't want to throw that out of the window, and our leaders don't want to throw that out of the window. But to make it clear, this is not what the world needs right now. And Trump needs to respect treaties and agreements, and he needs to leave Greenland alone, basically. How do you actually tell him that? How strongly?

 

Do you counter a bully? That's the question they are all grappling with.

 

Here in the UK, we've got two things going on in particular. You Keir Starmer taking that same line of trying to be as diplomatic as possible, watching his rhetoric, trying to be calm under pressure and calm and carry on as they say over here. Maybe believing there's some shred of the special relationship still in existence, which I never thought there was a special relationship. As soon as Trump was inaugurated,

 

Dan Harris (06:47.714)

Back in January last year, a year ago, I don't think there was a chance that there was going to be a special relationship. I mean, even under Biden, the special relationship was strained, but certainly under Trump. And I don't expect a third state visit anytime soon, being offered to Trump. But on the other hand, the liberal Democrat leader, Ed Davey, came out and said in no uncertain terms that we need to stand up as a country along with the EU.

 

forcefully and in confront Trump. And I think that historically, if you stand up to a bully, call his bluff, well, see what happens. Because you've got two things going on, obviously. As you mentioned, you've got Greenland and his incursion or intent incursion into Greenland, the takeover of that, and being threatened, extorted or threatened, however you want to look at it, with the tariffs.

 

And so that is an act of a bully. I have to admit, personally, as far as what would work more, I don't think the diplomatic side, you know, what Kirstam is doing has shown to prove anything useful. He's given them a state dinner. That lasted probably about, the after effects were worn off probably two or three days after the state dinner.

 

I don't think that has any consequences whatsoever. It now looks quite embarrassing for the UK to have done that. And that Ed Davey and the European Union should really make sure that they stand up and have confidence. The number one thing is believe in themselves. Have confidence in what they're doing. And they're strong. They're a big market. Yes, they don't have the military might at present that the Americans have.

 

But let's hope it doesn't even get to that. If it does, then obviously he is never, and we talked about this in previous podcasts, right? Almost like we talked about this at the start of his second term, NATO is under threat here. NATO was under threat from day one. He is not going to be participating in NATO going forward. And so I think that they have to, the Europeans realize that they have to reformulate that.

 

Dan Harris (09:10.082)

But I'll just say this and just get it out of the way. Venezuela, Greenland, tariffs, all of this is a distraction from what we know about the Epstein files. He wants to take that off the news cycle, and he has, you know, for the past several weeks, because of all these actions. But it's, it's in the background. It's not going to go away, but he's doing his, his tactic is play for time. Cause the time element here is the midterms, so to November. So he is probably going to do a string of events, as many as possible, leading up to the midterms. Because once the midterms happen, he'll probably lose the House undoubtedly, maybe the Senate, that's 50-50 at best, but maybe. And so that'll curtail his power. But, he'll still be president, and he'll still be using whatever power he can muster, which is quite considerable to do what he wants, but still, it'll be limited. There's a time, a temporal element to all this as well that we've got to realize. So that's why there's this rush, this rush to do these things. It's just unthinkable, unconscionable to think that we can invade a long-serving, long, long ally in Denmark and Greenland. But when you think about this, and there are other implications too here that we should talk about, because we can talk about one thing that sticks in my mind that Nancy Pelosi said in his first term is that she stood up at a meeting and pointed across the table and said to Trump, everything leads back to Putin with you. And we can talk about that next.

 

Dan Harris (10:55.37)

You're listening to Over Here Over There with your hosts, Claudia Kussler and me, Dan Harris. We want to thank some of our partners and friends who helped make this podcast possible. Tim and Catherine Mountain at Evenlode Films and Productions, and Chris Davis at Chris D. Projects Word Design. Check out our website at overhereoverthere.org and our social media channels. Please don't forget to like, subscribe, smash that notification bell, and share this episode. We'd really appreciate it. Now, back to our show.

 

Claudia Koestler

Absolutely, because one point that hasn't been talked much about is actually that if you think about a possible plan that he wants to get Greenland and make sure that he has the influence on this passageway between Greenland, Iceland, and the UK, and all that. You cannot talk about the resources; you can talk about this passage. But what is happening now by the means he's doing that, by threatening NATO and a NATO member, actually, he is playing so much into the hands of Beijing and Moscow. I mean, fracturing, and weakening NATO is the best news they can have over there in Russia and China. So it is either a very stupid gamble when it comes to foreign policy to actually give those countries that are on the opposite side, know, something like weakening the ally bond that you have with NATO, or it is a distraction from what's going on within the US. And as you mentioned, maybe the Epstein files, but either way, it is playing towards the benefit of Russia and China and not the US.

 

Claudia Koestler(12:56.992)

And what about the America First movement? I mean, if he's interested so much in foreign policy and in obtaining other countries and control of other countries, why is he all of a sudden no longer focusing on the problems they have within the US? So, that leads also to the question if it's a distraction, isn't it? But will it backfire? Because people will want to know by the end of this year, when it comes to the midterms and the elections, do they have more in their pockets? Do prices have prices come down? Is the cost of living down? Their social benefits better? Is healthcare better? And it doesn't look like it. So, time is of the essence for Trump to deliver what he promised so eloquently and so forcefully. And he's not so far. It doesn't look like it. But all of a sudden, America first is no longer on his agenda. All of a sudden, it's a global new order. So that is strange.

 

Dan Harris

Yeah. I think you'd give him the benefit of the doubt when you say eloquently. He's unintelligible when he makes these pronouncements. But, I would say, even go a little bit further in fact, that, okay, what we have in Greenland already, frankly, it's not a matter of raw materials, rare earth, or even security. We have all those already at our disposal. The Greenlanders said, you if you want to set up more bases or if you want to work on a licensing agreement with the materials, they're there. They're very open to that. There's hardly any benefit at all for the United States to take over that country. There's no gain. So what is the gain? Well, there are two things on my mind. There are two things. One, it is vanity. He wants to do something like the Louisiana Purchase, which we obtained from Napoleon in 1803. That is the big swath of the South and the Midwest. And then if he were to take or own Greenland, if we, the United States, were to own Greenland, well, that means that we get to license its resources. Right now, we can't license those resources. They're not, it's not ours to give. So, who would he license those resources to? Hold onto your hat about this, but he could let, he would, don't put it past that he wouldn't license those resources to Putin, to Russia. That's what's being spoken about. That's what my sources are hearing. So, so there's a lot more in this than just there's a vanity project, and maybe something where he could benefit materially from those license arrangements as well. Just like he's benefiting from the Venezuelan oil tank oil being seized and taken away from, and the revenues taken away and then put into an offshore bank account that he's controlling. It's right in front of us that he's doing this. This is no secret. So, another arrangement like in Greenland, he'll just duplicate. And that's what he's doing. He's grifting. He's trying to plot that and all this, you know, going forward.

 

So that's what's being talked about in this, in what I hear in the circles around the, around the internet and the web and various pundits. So it's really quite, you really have to watch this story and see how it's developed, see what the movements are, and just hope that the Europeans can really hold their nerves. And as a previous episode, we talked about their mantra, which really should be stronger together.

 

Stay strong, stay united, as you mentioned at the start. And that will prove a really good defense. It might not be enough initially, but in the long run, I think it will help.

 

Claudia Koestler (17:06.252)

I fully agree, and I can only emphasize that again, that they need to work closely together, find a unique position and a united position, and a united way forward, and absolutely stand up to a bully. That's the only way you can deal with a bully. That is to be strong and confident.

 

And they have all the possibilities to be that and to do that. And yes, some voices say that some countries are not ready for a war. It’ll probably take them a couple of years to have that military strength, but that doesn't matter because if they all work together, they are so much more coordinated and economically valuable. I believe that it will not come to a war. I'm pretty sure. And in the meantime, you can gear up, can obtain all those, and we will just have to overcome old ways of thinking. We have to overcome basically a little bit of the past and just see what the threats are today. What are the values we need to defend and to move forward?

 

And that will all lie within a united Europe, united in those values that are pure democracy and benefiting the people. That's it. Because you have to question who's benefiting at the moment in the U.S. It's not the people. It's not the common guy and gal out there living somewhere in a suburb or in the countryside. They are losing out massively. Still, and this is going to happen more and more and more, if those plans go ahead with what Trump has already shown and laid out. So, we in Europe have such a possibility for the future to actually showcase the value of democracy as a benefit to the common people.

 

Claudia Koestler(19:21.406)

And we need to make sure that everyone knows the value they have already. And we need to preserve that and make it even better for the future. And that's the way forward.

 

Dan Harris

Yeah. And the values that the European Union is espousing and promoting look so much more attractive even to Americans. Americans are wondering where their values have gone. They're certainly not the admired country that they thought they were. And so that really hurts to be the bad guy, be one of the big bad guys in the world is not very comfortable.

 

Claudia Koestler

Yeah, especially as the credibility as an ally has suffered. That's it. I mean, people are still people, and we will always try to reach out a hand, have friendships, have an exchange of views, and all that. But the way of the politicians, that's the tricky part at the moment. And as I said, the American credibility amongst allies is being auctioned off daily, basically.

 

Dan Harris

Yeah. Well, that great news. We should probably end it there.

 

Claudia Koestler

Yeah, well, dark outside.

 

Dan Harris (20:40.203)

Yeah. I know. We're losing the light in Cornwall here. So that's a pity. That’s a pity.

 

Claudia Koestler (20:48.334)

Yes sir. So, listener, you have to be the light out there. 

 

Dan Harris

Yes, we will. Our next episode will be ‘Darkness at Noon’ by the famous novel by Arthur Koestler. We'll get back to that someday. Anyway, hang in there, everybody. Stay together. We need leaders on the Democratic side. That's another episode that we'll do. And that'll come up shortly.

 

Thank you. Please like, share, comment, and tell all your friends about the podcast. We'd really appreciate it. And do what you can to, in your own neighbourhoods, to promote democracy wherever you are. So, I'm Dan Harris 

 

Claudia Koestler

And I’m Claudia Koestler

 

Dan Harris

Thank you for being over here, over there.

 

Outro music

 

Claudia Koestler (21:56.098)

Well, that's a wrap for today's episode, but there is much more content out there, so please visit us at overhereoverthere.org and please consider subscribing and supporting this podcast and channel so we can grow this community further and thank you for being a part of it. Thank you, cheers, bye!