Celebrating the 250th? Not Me! An Honest Conversation About the U.S. Anniversary

America turns 250 this year. But do Americans plan to celebrate it, or are divisions in the country putting people off the joyous occasion?

In this episode of Over Here, Over There, Claudia (DE, Germany) and Dan (American, living in the UK) get personal about the United States' Semiquincentennial — and ask the questions most people are afraid to say out loud. They explore the significance of the anniversary, American patriotism, historical milestones, cultural celebrations, and the future of American ideals from a transatlantic perspective.

Key questions:

Will Dan and other Americans be celebrating the 250th?
When did Dan last truly celebrate July 4th?
What do Indigenous Americans think of this milestone?
How does the UK see its former colony at 250?
And what would it actually take to feel proud to be American right now?

Insider and outsider perspectives. One very complicated birthday.

🎧 Over Here, Over There is a podcast about transatlantic life, culture, and politics — hosted by a German journalist and an American commentator living in Britain.

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Takeaways:

The US Semiquincentennial is a moment to reflect on American ideals and history.
Patriotism in the US is often quiet and centered around family and community.
Current political divisions affect national celebrations and unity.
The Declaration of Independence and Constitution symbolize core American values.
Global perceptions of American patriotism are complex and sometimes conflicted.

Resources:

US Declaration of Independence (Franklin Printing Company) - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_Independence
John Adams Series on HBO - https://www.hbo.com/series/john-adams
US Constitution - https://www.archives.gov/founding-docs/constitution
Dirk Stefan's Episode on Staying Optimistic - https://overhereoverthere.org/episodes/stay-positive

 Guest links:

Twitter - https://twitter.com/danharris
LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/danharris/

Transcript

Claudia Koestler: 00:04

The Constitution came in 1787. So what exactly are we celebrating? Is it freedom? Is it democracy? Is it an idea? And do you feel like the entire world is invited to celebrate with the US of A as well?

Dan Harris: 00:21

In fact, I keep a copy of the Constitution handy.  Yes, at my bedside. You know, it's, but it's fairly significant. And I wish the current Supreme Court would read it a little bit more thoroughly than what they're doing nowadays.

Claudia Koestler: 01:00

Hi Dan. Great to see you again. Hi, it's been a while. Yeah.  And I know that you don't like me to refer to you as my American go-to guy, but can I just throw something at you and, you know,  pick your brain on a certain topic?  July 4th, 2026. Hey, the United States they turn 250 years old. Are you going to do something? Are you going to celebrate it in any way?

Dan Harris: 01:31

No. No. I'll just give you a short answer: no. And the reason is that I feel very mixed at this moment as far as the political future goes of the country. And so, I am a very proud American. I also have a couple other passports, as we've talked about in the past. But I am very conflicted as far as what's happening today and to our constitution and to our country. And so, I'm more concerned, and I think we're under threat. So, when you're under threat, it's hard to be joyous, as far as the country is under threat. -h. And so, it's hard to be joyous at this moment. I'm more concerned about what's happening at the 250th mark of our country.

Claudia Koestler: 02:23

Okay.  When did you last celebrate it?  Like properly. When did you do you remember that one?

Dan Harris 02:32

The last time I celebrated is probably when I went to London and joined, I have to say,  there was a Democrats Abroad meeting there. And I joined in on that day and saw a lot of old familiar faces.  And the other time that more traditionally that one thinks about are these past picnics and celebrations back in the US, which are always special.  But that's the last one I did here in London. And it's really there are a lot of Americans over here, probably somewhere… There is no exact number of how many Americans are in the UK, but somewhere around 400 or 500,000, I would guess. But the embassy can't tell us how many there actually are. Okay.

Claudia Koestler: 03:20

So, why can't they tell you? Are they not registered in any way?

Dan Harris: 03:25

Data, data protection, I guess, or whatever. No. They just can't. You know, it's always just an estimate.

Claudia Koestler: 03:31

Okay. Okay. Well, they all seek refuge here. Refugee here. Yeah. That's right.

Dan Harris: 03:39

Well, I've been seeking refuge for 30 years here. That's right. That's right.

Claudia Koestler: 03:43

Good for you, good for you. And good for Europe and the UK to have you over here.  Well, speaking of that, let's bring everyone on board here. I'm Claudia.

Dan Harris: 03:54

And I'm Dan Harris.

Claudia Koestler: 03:55

And together we are over here, over there, the podcast across borders, and we share and compare transatlantic news and views. I am actually sitting in Germany, and Dan is in there.

Dan Harris: 04:07

I'm in Cheltenham, UK. In the heart of the Cotswolds. Yes.

Claudia Koestler: 04:12

But today we are throwing America a little birthday party. Well, let's see. Sort of. At least we're talking about it. Yeah. Well, , let's start with what a typical Fourth of July celebration actually looked like. What do you remember? What were the smells, the tastes like? Did you wrap yourself in stars and stripes?  What do I need to know about that? What is a typical celebration?

Dan Harris: 04:41

I treat my patriotism like I treat my religion, very quietly in a way. I just I don't wrap myself into stars and stripes. Although at a picnic celebration, I'd like to see some motif, red, white, and blue, and some flags; that's great. But on the whole, it's quietly celebrated.  And what comes to mind first when I think of Fourth of July is hot dogs. I think hot dogs and hamburgers on the grill. And the smell, it's more of a yeah, that's the sense I get: the smell of the barbecue and things like that and being around families and friends. It’s one of those things that binds us together, like Thanksgiving. That's something that we all can celebrate either back home or a bunch of Americans here. That's what binds us, both are really our citizenship. And even those who are visiting, who celebrate America and its ideals, and you know, they join in. That's fine. That's great. So that's the type of atmosphere, at least the feeling that I have.  I am a proud American, yes. I I know I've got some other citizenships as I've gone along. But you can hear from my voice and my being that you can't take the boy out of the country. You know, I'm who I am. But then I'm also proud of the other citizenships. I have Italian and British citizenship.  Hopefully, before I leave this earth, I get Irish citizenship as well. But I am innately American.

Claudia Koestler: 06:32

Well then you already said that you still are proud to be American. What exactly makes you proud? And what did change over the course of time with celebrating the Fourth of July? Did that come with your move over to  Great Britain, or was there anything, you know, that you missed family members to celebrate it with? When did that change, and what exactly makes you still proud to be American?

Dan Harris: 07:04

Well, nothing's changed. I'm still proud to be American, and no matter where I go in the world, that doesn't change anything. And in fact, I'm so proud to be American that I'll do a little show and tell here. I have a copy of the Declaration of Independence from the actual printing press, the Franklin Printing Company, that I got in Philadelphia.  And it's, yeah, so it's the same one. And for viewers who are, or for people who are listening, I've just held up the framed version of the Declaration of Independence. , and it's actually the Dunlop broadside that was first published and distributed, and it just has the name of John Hancock on it, who was the chair of the…let me see, if this is here, the signed by order and on behalf of the Congress, John Hancock, who was the president of the assembly at that point, and then it was also  Charles Thompson, secretary, who helped administer this, the decor the declaration and the Dunlop Broadside and distributed throughout the colonies. So that was the first version. So anyway, just a little bit of history there.  

Dan Harris: 08:30

 I don't know if people appreciate that or not, but it really struck home. And to be in Philadelphia at the time and to have that, I thought it was very special; I had to frame that. And it's the ideals that it speaks to, and, or freedom of freedom of human beings and their natural-born rights, and it encapsulates- of course, it's been struggling to live up to its ideals for 250 years, and it will continue to struggle to live up to its ideals. We all know that. We know it's not a perfect union, but it seeks to strive for that perfect union. So, I remain; that's what keeps me going. That's what keeps me American.  And just growing up and being my first 20, 30 years in America, has left an indelible mark. And I carry it with me. I represent every time I open my mouth over here; I'm American. People say, Well, how long have you been here? Like, like I just got off the boat or the plane. And I say, Well, I've been here 30 years, 30 plus years, off and on. And they're always taken aback, like, and you haven't changed, you haven't modified. And I say to him, laughingly, I say, Well, you ought to hear how I used to speak. So now you can understand me. So anyway,  so yeah, so I'm proud to celebrate it. But when over here, it's not recognized, people do recognize it; they do know or are aware of the date; certainly the whole world recognizes it. But as far as celebration goes, no, there's nothing in the street unless I do something myself or with friends and family that I know.

Claudia Koestler: 10:16

 With this 250-year celebration, it's not just about the Declaration of Independence.  The Constitution came in in 1787. So what exactly are we celebrating? Is it freedom? Is it democracy? Is it an idea? And do you feel like the entire world is invited to celebrate with the US of A as well, or is that just something  American citizens citizens should and will celebrate?

Dan Harris: 10:50

No, I think it's yes to all that. You know, to make a long story short. Yes, I think that people have looked up since our beginning to this.

Dan Harris: 11:00

I mean, it's a very unique document. In fact, I keep a c  a copy of the Constitution handy.  Yes, at my bedside. I will actually the reason why I do this is that I'm asked to go on the radio every so often, and they often want to talk about there's something about American politics and about the and the Constitution and w where Trp either is running roughshod over it or whatever. And there's just some controversy as far as especially like around the 14th Amendment or something like that. So, I got to look up section three of the 14th Amendment, and I have it right in front of me. So, it's something that I like to have, and it's not very long, you know, it's a thin book. Here it is. So, you know, it's fairly significant. And I wish the current Supreme Court would read it a little bit more thoroughly than what they're doing nowadays. So, to be perfectly honest. So yes, it's  I think that what we're celebrating primarily is that act of heroism, I think, by signing the Declaration of Independence. That's first and foremost. Then comes the thought of the War of Independence, the Constitution, as you mentioned, and things like that. Because in fact, I was just watching the John Adams series on HBO, and the significance of it is that when they declare their independence and put their names to it, they're actually signing their death warrant at that point. And the courage that that took for anybody- okay, they're all affluent upper-class individuals with land, property, and all this. But they did have a lot to lose, but they did have resources themselves to fight against poverty and injustice and things like that. But still, they were about they were they were going to lose all that, including their lives.

Dan Harris1: 13:06

You're listening to Over Here Over There with your hosts, Claudia Kusler and me, Dan Harris. We want to thank some of our partners and friends who helped make this podcast possible. Tim and Catherine Mountain at Evenlode Films and Productions. And Chris Davis at Christ D Projects Web Design. Check out our website at overhearoverthere.org and our social media channels. Please don't forget to like, subscribe, smash that notification bell, and share this episode. We'd really appreciate it. Now back to our show.

Claudia Koestler: 13:38

There is an official phrase for those celebrations.  Let's see if I can actually remember to pronounce this correctly. It's semi-quincentennial, isn't it, then? Whoa, quite a monster for me.

Dan Harris: 13:55

I couldn't do it. I couldn't do it. Yeah, yeah. I'll let you I'll let you struggle with that. I'm not going to try to do that.

Claudia Koestler: 14:00

Well, there are a couple of events across the US of A, of course, to celebrate that.  do you know if anyone is actually paying attention to all those events?  is that a big thing?

Dan Harris: 14:14

Oh yes. Oh yes, it's a very big thing. But I think the thing about it is this year, because it's such a divided nation at the moment,  you don't really feel banded together across the country. 

Dan Harris: 14:30

 And so, you have, yes, you'll have your celebrations in various states and whatever. But as far as somebody, we lack a leader who pulls us all together to help celebrate across party lines, divisions, divides, you know, perfect over here, over there topic. That's where you want to bring people together. And we do not have that at the moment. And I'd hate to be a downer on that, but that's what's creating this kind of muted response from everyone. In fact, if you if people look up on YouTube or wherever, the speech of Robert De Niro- I saw that a couple of days ago- and how he feels regarding the 250th. And he loves his country like anything, , and he's very, very proud American, but he says he's not happy and for a variety of reasons, and he goes and he categorizes his reasons. So a lot of us feel the same. A lot of us feel the same. So that's interesting. But I will say that the one thing you asked me about- other events where I also felt proud is that, or just was amazed to be there- was when I was working in Washington, DC, I  I was living on Capitol Hill even. And we went to this concert that was on the lawn, the South Lawn on the back of the Capitol,  and it was a celebration of Aaron Copland. And he himself, he was still alive, and then he got up and conducted the Fanfare for the Common Man. And then there were fireworks and everything else. It was just fantastic, and it was probably the most patriotic moment that I've that I felt at that point, because it really was special to hear that, to see that, and to be there at that time. So, but  I mean, generally across the country just having a barbecue and being with friends and bonding as Americans is pretty special in its own right.

Claudia Koestler: 16:45

You know, even from my perspective here in Europe, here as a German person, that really is quite a milestone. 250 years, that's nothing, even though we have  European countries and cities that are celebrating a couple of thousand years of existence. But 250 years is actually a longer time than Germany as a country exists.  That was that country was unified in 1871. So, that definitely is a milestone

Dan Harris: 17:22

So, we got you beat. We got you beat.

Claudia Koestler: 17:23

Well, you're so competitive all the time, you Americans. Yeah, have that one, have that one. And we respect you for that milestone, absolutely. But what I also noticed is that those celebrations, , they have been they feel a little bit like the country can't really separate the birthday party from the political influence, especially Trump's influence. And that is a little bit of a pity because we do think this should have been a unifying national moment, yet it feels like it's a mega-branded takeover in a way, at least when it comes to some sort of those celebrations. And I'm speaking of the currency notes with Trump's face on it, the gold coin featuring Trump's portrait,  the talks about Mount Rushmore being used as a celebration hotspot.  Yet, the indigenous activists are absolutely protesting against that. 

Dan Harris: 18:36

The Kennedy Center is now behind tarpaulin, and he doesn't want to take it down,  the tarpaulin. But he's going to have to take it down from that because his name got removed by a court. So that, but yeah, he puts his name on everything, just like he did in New York.

Claudia Koestler: 18:54

Yeah.

Dan Harris: 18:55

And so, it's just who the man is. It says everything about who the man is.

Claudia Koestler: 19:00

And all of that, that has raised eyebrows across the Atlantic, I have to tell you. And it feels like less like a republic honouring its founding and more like going after a personality cult. And that's what we here in Europe think is a pity. Let's put it that way.

Dan Harris: 19:23

Yeah. And it's understandable. I mean, our relations have been severely strained. It seems like he's done everything to deconstruct our relationships here in Europe and around the world.  It seems like a Putin playbook, to be perfectly honest. And I don't know, it's going to take quite a bit of repair. It won't happen even if there's a Democratic victory after the midterms or the presidential elections coming up in 2028; it's still going to take quite a while to repair the trust that we've had, that goodwill, that soft power. If we ever get it back,  it's going to take some time. So, exactly. I mean,  in fact, when I introduce myself, I have to be careful because obviously I open my mouth, they can hear that I'm American, and I have to sort of, with most people, eight or nine people out of ten people who I meet, probably are looking at me a little bit askance, saying, basically, what side are you on? Who are you?

Claudia Koestler: 20:34

Oh dear.

Dan Harris: 20:35

Yeah. And it's getting to be a running joke that I say, I'm not one of them. You know, I try to keep an even keel? So anyway, it's sad, but we got to stay positive, as Dirk Stephens would want us to do. And you have to be positive to take action.

Claudia Koestler: 21:00

Absolutely.

Dan Harris: 21:01

And that's Dirk's motto. And whoever is going ahead.

Claudia Koestler: 21:08

Admittedly, that is hard to do. But Dirk has some excellent points on how to get yourself motivated again, even though doom scrolling is a thing, and we all hear so many bad things every day, and it's sometimes hard to find the positive aspects again. But there are excellent pointers, so please watch out for that episode. It really is life-changing in a way.

Dan Harris: 21:38

Yeah, exactly. So yeah, no, we've got to stay positive. There will be a future.  You know,  Karl Valentin, I love that saying in German:  Früher war die Zukunft auch besser. Right?

Claudia Koestler: 21:56

Excellent, excellent, Dan.

Dan Harris: 22:00

Time. So, the future used to be better. That’s what it meant.

Claudia Koestler: 22:07

Even the future used to be better.

Dan Harris: 22:09

Even the future used to be better, yes. But some people are not seeing that. They just see, especially I really empathize or sympathize with the young generation and what they're going through. And what they see as far as climate, their future, job prospects, everything, their rights, their human rights in Western democracies, especially I'm talking particularly in the United States. But you know, we’ve got to keep going. You know, we can't give up.

Claudia Koestler: 22:47

Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We'll just have to keep going to make things better. Well, to conclude, maybe 250 years is exactly the right moment to ask.  Not happy birthday, but what do you want to be when you are grown up? And just go for making things better is always a good plan.

Dan Harris: 23:12

Yeah. So that's good. That's a good question to the United States. What do you want to be when you grow up? Because we've been here about a thousand or two thousand years and over here. So, what do you want to be when you grow up? And, but anyway, I think it's like with the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution, I mean, people admire us for our idealism, and that's what it has attracted millions across the oceans to come, and we're an immigrant nation. And that's very powerful, the power of ideals. And you know, that's where I think it's being lost at the moment. When you look at it, the values that are now inherent, say, in the German Constitution and living up to the values of the German Constitution and

Dan Harris24:00

other countries in Europe, the values now seem at a higher level, a more noble level, than what we thought. We thought we were exceptional, you know, that kingdom on a hill or something like that, which is totally rubbish. You know, we're not a kingdom on the hill. It's, you know, our constitution was what made us special. Not any allegiance to any king or monarch or dictator or whatever. So, but now that's changed. And a matter of boom, you know, a year or two, it's really changed. Although it's been growing over the course of the last 20 to 40 years, this movement, this very extremist movement, you know, but it really has accelerated in this Trump's second term. And we've got to do something about it. Action.

Claudia Koestler: 24:47

Absolutely. And, what a great idea to actually compare the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution with the German Basic Law. Because I do think I actually need to get a printed version of that to hang on my walls. Be proud.

Dan Harris: 25:05

Be proud.

Claudia Koestler: 25:06

At least of the Basic Law I am, and we should explain to people why.  Because otherwise it's quite hard to be proud of being a German. But that's for another episode.  I think it's a great idea to invite the audience to comment on what America's birthday does mean to them. Please leave comments. We really read every one of them and reply to them in any language. Please feel free to comment, and also don't forget to like and subscribe and tell everyone about this podcast. We want to grow this community, and we really want to do it with you and hear from you. Thank you very much. I'm Claudia Koestler.

Dan Harris: 25:45

And I'm Dan Harris.

Claudia Koestler: 25:47

And together we are over here over there, the podcast across borders. Please see us at our website at overheoverthere.org. And you can find our podcasts on all major platforms, of course. And we'll leave a link to the episode with Dirk Stefan's How to Stay Optimistic in this day and age. Excellent pointers there, and a very fun episode.

Dan Harris: 26:11

Thank you for being over here, over there.