Hustle Her
Hustle Her
Hustle Her - DeVika
Ever wondered what it takes to lead a team of 40 spread across eight different locations? DeVika Bourne, SVP and Head of Underwriting Operations at PartnerRe, pulls back the curtain on her leadership journey in this insightful conversation. As someone who expertly juggles the responsibilities of her career and family, DeVika shares her experiences and wisdom on team management, growth, and development.
This episode delves into DeVika's professional journey, her unexpected transition into leadership, and her childhood ambition of becoming a lawyer. What sets DeVika apart is her understanding of the unique personalities and cultures of the people she leads. She talks candidly about maintaining a healthy work-life balance, setting boundaries, and navigating the challenges of making time for loved ones.
We wrap up the discussion by exploring DeVika's motivations for success and how motherhood has fueled her ambitions. She shares the importance of breaking barriers and translating conversations into action when it comes to workplace equity and fairness. By the end of this episode, you'll gain a new perspective on leadership and the key role leaders play in training their team members and setting a standard for success. This is a conversation packed with insights that will inspire and guide you in your leadership journey. Let's get hustling!
It's time for hustle her podcast. I'm your host, deshae Keynes. Hustle her is all about inspiring women through real life experiences that have helped to mold and develop not only me but my guests into the entrepreneurs and leaders we are today. If you're an enterprising woman determined to succeed and looking for a bit of motivation, a bit of tough love and some actionable takeaways to be the best you girl, you are in the right place. Hey guys, and welcome back to hustle her podcast. Thanks again for spending some time with me today. For those of you, if it's your first time here, welcome. And for our returning listeners and viewers, thank you again for coming in check, checking us out. Um big thank you to our sponsors today Brown and Co and 59 front. Make sure you guys head over to 59 front and check out all the different products that they have down there. They have some amazing brands, from Joe Malone to La Mer and some initial other things that you guys could try out down there. So you should definitely head over to 59 front if you have not recently.
Deshay Caines:I have an amazing guest today who I'm super excited to have on the podcast today. She is the SVP and head of underwriting operations at partner. We miss DeVica. Hey, how are you? I'm very, very happy that you're here. Um, I know we were talking about a pre show, but I love the lipstick color.
DeVika Bourne:It's super cute. I love lipsticks. I wanted to try something a little bit less subtle.
Deshay Caines:It works, it works, it definitely works. All right, so we'll jump into some questions to get everyone to get to know you really quickly. It's giving me the first thing that comes to mind and then we'll jump in. Cool, all right. I'm happiest when I'm with my children, okay, um, what do you do on a plane?
DeVika Bourne:Oh, either read or listen to music, okay. All right, no more skincare routine, um, so I use circadian products every morning, every night wash, SPF lotion yeah, spf has become a regular routine.
Deshay Caines:Same for me. I use black girls on screen. Um. I didn't do that when I was younger, but definitely not yeah, for sure, all right. What did you spend your first big paycheck on?
DeVika Bourne:Um, first big paycheck. I had already bought a house by the time I got to a first big paycheck, so I knew it was something for the house. I just can't pinpoint exactly what it was.
Deshay Caines:Okay, I'm okay with that. All right, uh, who would you say is your closest friend right now? Oh my gosh.
DeVika Bourne:Um well outside of my husband.
Deshay Caines:Okay, yeah, yeah.
DeVika Bourne:So, outside of my husband, I have had lifelong girlfriends that I'm so incredibly thankful for. So um names.
Deshay Caines:If you want to. I don't want you to forget anybody and it becomes a problem.
DeVika Bourne:Right, exactly, exactly, but no, I have lifelong high school friends from high school that we continue to have the best and closest relationship, so perfect. So outside of my husband.
Deshay Caines:All right, nice. I love that you said outside of my house. Yeah, like duh, all right, what does love feel like?
DeVika Bourne:Oh gosh, you know, it feels appreciated, it feels reciprocal, um, because of course you can feel it, but you also have to be, you know, given that exact same emotion, back Um wholesome, um, happy, excited, spontaneous, all of those things.
Deshay Caines:Okay, all right. What is your hidden talent?
DeVika Bourne:Um, I don't know if I necessarily have a hidden talent.
Deshay Caines:Okay, Uh, it's fine. It's fine If all the talents are out there no longer hidden.
DeVika Bourne:That's what we'll say.
Deshay Caines:All right, celebrity crush.
DeVika Bourne:I knew you were going to actually.
Deshay Caines:It's become a thing. Yeah, it was not intended, and then it just became a thing.
DeVika Bourne:I thought about it and I, if I think back to like my old crush, I don't think I have one right now but. Beyonce is my crush. She'll always be my crush, so.
Deshay Caines:I'm going next week and I can't wait, I went to in August.
DeVika Bourne:Um, but when I was like in university, usher was definitely a crush on mine. I remember catching the bus from Wolfville to Halifax to that record store to buy that one CD.
Deshay Caines:Can you imagine if you used to buy a CD?
DeVika Bourne:Exactly. I'm playing it over and over and over. When I got back to my dorm which. Cd was it.
Deshay Caines:Confessions Okay yeah, confessions was a. That was a good album. Confessions part two yeah, burn, he had so many songs on that one. Yeah, it's still a great album.
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, exactly.
Deshay Caines:Daphne, you got to head over to Vegas to go see him.
DeVika Bourne:I know we were just there and he wasn't performing during that week.
Deshay Caines:He extended his dates, just saying all right. And then, finally, what is your cut match team?
DeVika Bourne:It's St George's Mercy.
Deshay Caines:Just two, two for three today. Mercy, all right, sorry, can't continue.
DeVika Bourne:I'm joking.
Deshay Caines:All right, so let's jump in. So I read off your title, big title right Senior vice president, um, and you are the head of underwriting operations at partner re, so walk me through leadership in that aspect in your current role.
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, so I am responsible for a team of about 40 right now in eight locations worldwide, um, and really we're just responsible for all of the administration side of the underwriting process. So we're very much supportive to all of the underwriters worldwide at partnering Um. But I, you know, in addition to that, I think what's really crucial about you know, leading those 40 people, is that I somehow am responsible for also help them to develop and grow. I have three, so 40 worldwide, but three direct reports and then the remaining team members feed into them. So those three, like managers, really look to me for support, development, kind of guidance, advice. I find my role to be more transformational.
DeVika Bourne:When you're in that operational space, there's a heavy pressure to continue to be efficient.
DeVika Bourne:Um, you know you're viewed as a cost right, you're not the front of the business, so you really need to pay close attention to remaining efficient, building in processes that can be kind of replicated, you know, or very agile when things grow um, you can still adapt, and so that's a really at the core of my function in making sure that we're we're being, as you know, efficient as possible.
DeVika Bourne:I think that's really really crucial in my space. But the leadership side of it I love, right, this is something that I Really take to heart. I really I think that I believe so hardly that, as a leader, your, your single most important responsibility is to create other leaders. I read that in in Maxwell's the five leadership leadership principles and it stuck with me and it will forever stick with me, because I do believe that you know, we have our responsibility not only to the people that we leave, but even to our organization, right, when it comes to succession planning and just really positioning people to be able to take over when you leave, because you're not gonna be there forever To be ready for that. So, you know, I do really feel strongly about that.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, no, definitely in in your bio you you say something around the long, basically I'm paraphrasing here of you manage people the way you wish to be managed. So how? How did you wish to be managed that you're changing now with the people that you manage?
DeVika Bourne:So I always you know, I always liked being managed by someone who had an open door of policy. So someone who I felt very comfortable with, who I trusted, who, you know, had a high degree of integrity, who I knew when it was time to show up in that room and speak my name and promote me, would do it, and do it without even Meeting me to to co-sign that message, right, because they knew me so well. Right, they'd taken the time to learn about me, to understand me, to know both weaknesses and strengths, and get in there and, and really, you know, put me forward, push me outside of my confidence. And I do think I do that a lot with my team. I do kind of stretch them a bit, but that's where the growth occurs, right. So this is, this is something that I, you know, try all the time to, to help with my team and their development. But leading the way you want to be lead is a core principle of mine. Oh sorry, the way you want to be led.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, I got it.
DeVika Bourne:It's a core principle of mine and you know, I just you know Sometimes you just have to step back and say would I have wanted that, would I have really wanted to know the truth in this situation. But it's time for feedback. Do I want it fluffy or do I want to know right?
DeVika Bourne:so that I have the opportunity to To actually change it or correct it or address it. Maybe there's something, there's a misunderstanding. So it's those kinds of things that really drive me to to want to make sure I'm treating people the way they, they and I would want to be treated.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, and then with managing so many people with obviously different personalities, right, and cultures yeah, cultures too, and you know trying to be. You're not just leading women, you're leading men as well. So how do you find that balance with leading different people, different personalities? Like, what you do for a dachet is not the same that you would do for Lara.
DeVika Bourne:Like, how do?
Deshay Caines:you do. How do you manage all of that, I guess?
DeVika Bourne:so you make mistakes.
Deshay Caines:I Do you make mistakes.
DeVika Bourne:I will never forget, so I I'm not. I haven't been in this room for very long.
Deshay Caines:I.
DeVika Bourne:I assumed this position in 2020.
Deshay Caines:Mm-hmm, that's three years ago. That's pretty yeah yeah, you're right. That time flew by.
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, it did but I remember sending an email to one of my managers and copying another manager in and that manager was so offended by Me sending the email the way I did. It was partly called cultural, also just misunderstanding. Yeah, and it was. You know she was in Europe and you know she was very upset, she called me, she was a misinterpreter, is like just completely offended, and I didn't look at it like that. But it gave me the opportunity to step back and say, okay, now I know how I need to set that that kind of relationship up. So I think you, you know, to some degree you will make mistakes as it pertains to learning.
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, people, there are cultures, what's what works, what doesn't work, and that helps to kind of guide you through it. I Think that you know, obviously, language is something that creates a huge barrier between people, but you have to to just slow down.
DeVika Bourne:I speak very fast. So that was something I had to really learn. I remember a manager one of my managers in Zurich. He said you speak like a machine gun. I was like, oh my gracious it gave me the opportunity. Okay, slow down. Yeah, look, you don't want the message lost, right? They need to understand you and then you know how you know guide people through, how, what you're trying to explain, the outcome that you're trying to receive and things like that. So it's been a lot of learning, but I do think you have you. You will make a few mistakes, especially when you're dealing with so many different cultures and personalities and genders.
Deshay Caines:You know yeah, no and I love that you said in the beginning to making mistakes. Part of it. Right, because a lot of times, as as leaders, as people in positions where they manage people, they don't necessarily admit that they got something wrong. You know what I mean. So most times it's just like okay, cool, whatever, you just keep it going and there's never the acknowledgement of that mistake, or you know what a dishe. Do you think I could have done this differently to better support you?
Deshay Caines:like working off your strengths and not necessarily pushing those weaknesses all the time. So it's it's. It's such a delicate balance, like I can think of a horrible manager that I've had in the past you know, I mean, and everything they did wrong but then I also can think of really great managers who gave me tons of skills that I needed, and those ones were the ones that were like you know what I'm sorry one I got that wrong and then they figured out the best way to essentially make it better for you as the employee.
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, it's always key. It is and it's a space of vulnerability, right. So, and that's a very difficult space as a manager, because you somehow I think we've been taught that you need to appear strong. You know you don't want to appear weak, you don't want people to take advantage of you, take your kindness for weakness, but to some degree, people need to see that element of you, right, because it brings back a little bit of humanity into this very structured business where I don't really answer often and I think I've had the best results of teams where they've actually seen like, hey, I'm just a human, like I am Zafika over here, toronto, make it just like you, you know. So I think you get the best results out of people and they respect you a lot more. From that, right, you can say sorry, I made a mistake. Look, that's how can we move forward. Give me some feedback. How do you think I'm doing Right? Let's open that dialogue, let's tell me you know, so that I also have the opportunity to fix it.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, that's really key. So let's take it back a little bit, right? So when you first started out in your career, did you ever think that you would be in the position you are right now, leading a team of 40 in eight different countries around the world? Like, was that the end goal to be in?
DeVika Bourne:leadership. End goal to be in leadership. I didn't know that this would be the journey I'd take to get there, but I always saw myself in some type of leadership capacity. I've always been. You know, I've always put myself out there in kind of different scenarios, even from high school, like deputy house captain and you know, just doing different sports.
Deshay Caines:Oh no, I'm struggling just to back.
DeVika Bourne:then I used to run, but these knees are not set up like that anymore. But no, I you know just kind of doing things like that. Youth parliament was back then. I was part of that you know German club. I went to Rotary, I was a Rotary exchange student, so it's like all of those things that kind of. You know I did that that required a lot of strength on my own, so so it didn't surprise me being in a leadership position. It was kind of how I got there.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, and what? What was the, I guess, surprising aspect of the how?
DeVika Bourne:Um, I guess the most surprising aspect was well, first of all, it happened rapidly. I went into, I came into a row at partnering and then 11 months later they were like you're going to lead the team, and I wasn't. I don't even think personally. I was at a place where I wanted to do that yet because I just found out I was pregnant and having my daughter and I hadn't even told my department. But you know, it is what it is. Sometimes you just have to kind of roll with with what's happening at the time and just do it. So I think it was a lot sooner than I expected, and I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, cause to some degree I'm a big proponent for people taking risks early in their career and because I got thrusted so early into this management position, I wanted to to master that somehow I think I lost sight a little bit of maybe. I want to change and do this or do that Right.
DeVika Bourne:So I think that probably would be my thing on the how.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, definitely, and so you went to school to be a CPA.
DeVika Bourne:I went to school and I got a business degree in finance. I had so. So even before that, I wanted to be a lawyer.
Deshay Caines:This is so insane and I'm looking at Lara because the amounts of women that have sat on this couch and said they wanted to be a lawyer myself included. And we have gotten. I don't think anyone has been a lawyer. It's so crazy. So that's what that look came from, because literally, so many.
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, when I was in high school I wanted to be a lawyer and then I did embroidery, came back from uni to college, still fluffing around a bit. Then I went to work in banking and I think that kind of sparked my interest a little bit into that finance route. So I went to work I was working at Prometheus Commercial Bank back then and it was a great foundation, great team, people who really had a vested interest in your development and success. So I went to university, studied finance, thought I wanted to start BScFA but wasn't 100% sure, said I would come back, get a job. So I got straight into reinsurance and from there I was just I got into accounting. So it was just a natural fit.
DeVika Bourne:But I was still kind of trying to figure out what I wanted to do, whether it would be underwriting, whether it would be finance, and I think I settled settled, that sounds great. I think I ended up with studying to be an accountant because that foundational degree I felt was really, really important. Right, there's a great foundation to being able to understand finance and accounting because it can translate into any industry. So I think that was what was very appealing to me in becoming an accountant?
Deshay Caines:Okay, definitely. And then so once you became an accountant and you went into reinsurance like what were some of the other qualifications, you kind of got after that to remain in that industry.
DeVika Bourne:So everybody was asked for this and, to be honest, I haven't gotten any other, like insurance or reinsurance designations.
DeVika Bourne:It's been all experience based. I've done you would have seen on my resume a lot of leadership kind of focus, so that has been a big part of my educational journey. But from a specific core insurance designation side, I haven't done much. I don't know. I think, because I do believe there's an element of it that you just need to learn on the job. But the thing is was I was studying to be an accountant, I had just gotten married, so after that, all of that happened. I just wanted to break.
DeVika Bourne:There was no more education energy in me, and since then you know everything. Life happens yeah.
Deshay Caines:No, I have a friend who is a CPA and I know I literally talk to her all the time about her journey, when she was getting all her exams. So I completely I can empathize with it because you know those exams are no joke.
DeVika Bourne:So I can totally understand that it's just tires me out thinking about it, just thinking about it now Exactly.
Deshay Caines:So tell me about Little Devico. Why did you want to be a niche before you know lawyer? But as like Little Devico, eight years old, what does she want to do?
DeVika Bourne:It's funny because at eight years old I knew I wanted to be a lawyer Really.
DeVika Bourne:Like I was very decisive back then. My grandma would always say, like I would always say Nope, I'm going to be a lawyer, I'm going to be a lawyer, I'm definitely going to be a lawyer, don't? I think it's because I had this natural knack for talking and, you know, debating, and so I felt like that would be a good career choice. Yeah, but being a lawyer was always, always something I wanted to do and be. I remember my grandma seeing Nicole Sternum one day, and we were at Hamelson, I mean Paget Pharmacy, and she was like my granddaughter wants to be a lawyer, take her under your wing, be her mentor. And we still have a relationship to today.
Deshay Caines:That's really cool, yeah, and.
DeVika Bourne:I, even though I didn't pursue the law root, but you know, this was something I knew I wanted to be from a very long time.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, and did you play? I know you said you used to run when you were younger, but what other extracurriculars were you involved in?
DeVika Bourne:So running was the main thing. It's funny to say I don't remember doing a whole lot as a young person from a sports perspective. I did a little bit of dance but didn't stay in that. But as a result my girls are in everything, so it's like I didn't do it all, but I want you to do it. Yeah, so I can't. I was, you know, my mom was, it was just her in the household, so she worked a lot and so you know, from a from a parent support perspective, she wasn't able to take me around to all of the activities that I needed to do and things like that. But you know that that didn't really stop me exploring other things.
Deshay Caines:So how would you say, knowing that now about your mom and you know your relationship that way, how would you say that that's kind of molded you into the leader and mom that you are today?
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, so I've definitely taken on the taken the approach that I really want my girls to have exposure to as much as possible at an early age. I recognize that they will drop things, they will say I hate this, I don't want to do it anymore. But I do think the exposure is key because it helps them to make a decision, find something they love. I you know I laugh now and say if I had gotten to a sport hardcore when I was young, physical exercise wouldn't be such a big deal anymore at this age, right.
Deshay Caines:I don't think that's the case, but I was. Oh, you are looking at.
DeVika Bourne:But I always say, you know maybe. So now I really try to expose them to as much, to as much as possible, just in hopes that, you know, something finally sticks. I mean, dance has stuck for them. They absolutely love to dance, but, you know, in hopes that this will carry them through a little bit further as well.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, so you have this job and I talk about and I obviously interview a lot of women with big jobs, right, and we always it always comes to this question around work and family and husband and balance and all of those types of things. How do you manage to juggle all of that?
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, so the B word is a bad word, Because balance basically just doesn't exist for me. If something's getting done, something else isn't Juggling. I mean, prioritization is extremely key for me. At one point in time something has to take priority, At another point in time something doesn't. I have a lot of help, a big support system, I will say, which I'm extremely thankful for. So that is a huge help in may help me to achieve everything, because I think it's the mom component that really tips it over the edge right. Going to work and getting it all done is fine, I can get that, I can handle that. But when you add in, you know, two daughters trying to do their schedule, getting it all done, come home, be a mom, be a wife, still be an employee, it can get very overwhelming. So I just have to really sometimes just sit back and say what needs my priority now, right?
DeVika Bourne:I do have a rule that I don't look at my emails before I leave the house, because I remember one person, the lady I work with.
DeVika Bourne:She was like don't do that, because you're going to be in work mode before you even leave and then you can't give your children the attention they need before you throw off to school. You're already, like you know, in a boardroom and not with them. And so I do have that rule where no reading emails before you leave the house. You can check them as soon as they get out of the car. You can be like okay in traffic, but not before I am out of their sight. And even when I'm trying to like when I get home and there's things I need to still do, I try my best to kind of put them to bed first and then go back on. So I am really strict that on during the week about it's time for bed. Like you know, you guys have to go, even if you're just in your room laying down, not necessarily sleep, but that gives me cars all the time for me to be able to now refocus and get other things that I may not have gotten done.
Deshay Caines:And then how do you still have date night with the hubby and that type of balance too?
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, and he has a very demanding job too, right, so this is a tricky one. So we've tried a few things like let's commit to a series that we watch every single week on that day, right, and we can do that. Or let's talk, but we struggle. I mean, if I'm being honest, that's a hard one. I mean during the week, you know he's still working until 11 o'clock at night. You know it could be me that's doing that, and so, luckily, we do have a really strong relationship. We talk often, you know.
Deshay Caines:We laugh a lot, he is.
DeVika Bourne:We laugh a lot, but that one, that one, is hard, especially when you throw any schedules of the children and everything else, and trying to find a night where it actually works, you know, finding a babysitter, all of that. Yeah, that's a. That's one we're still trying to perfect.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, but I feel like you know both of you know that and still trying to work together on that is helpful, right? Because, sometimes someone else is pushing it more than the other, and I guess the balance there is that both of you know that something is you're still working on and you know, even if it means you watch the series and fall asleep together, Exactly, exactly.
DeVika Bourne:And I mean, you know it can be just like now we're trying to make sure that we eat dinner together with the girls, so that you know we're talking, you know we're having that conversation all four of us really. You know just shooting the breeze right, just saying how your day was just and that is time right, and so it's all of those little things. I remember at one point we were like so on the go, it's like get your food, you know, nobody's, somebody's on the couch, somebody's at the breakfast table, like it now is like no, let's carve this time out and really sit down and take 30 minutes to enjoy each other.
Deshay Caines:Is it difficult to switch off from, like you know, big boss mode to mommy and wife mode when you get home, like I know I don't have that, but like if I've had a really crappy day at work, like I need a minute? You know to get myself together. Like how do you do that? I mean, I mean I don't have to walk through the door, I've had a crap day right and it's just like mommy, mommy, mommy, like how do you do that?
DeVika Bourne:Honestly. I mean what I do do now is I go in my room for like at least 20 minutes. I'll learn with the air conditioning just blast and then just lay there right and just, whether it be looking on my phone or looking at TV or doing absolutely nothing. I just need 20 minutes, right, and then usually Mark will be coming home and he will be he. He was going, but at least just carve out that little bit of time is not a lot, but it gives me that minute. I remember living in St David's used to, because we used to live in St David's before, so that drive used to be almost like yes, it was a decompression right.
DeVika Bourne:But now we're in Devonshire, so you're him, so everything happened so fast. But usually I try to just go away for, like you know, 15, 20 minutes. Just give me a second, especially if it's been a rough day.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, yeah, those rough days are gotta be tough you know?
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, they are.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, and people don't really understand that weight of a leader of certain things making decisions, budgets, all that type of stuff Got people's lives in your hand right, absolutely exactly.
Deshay Caines:So when you're in that, in that process of it, like how do you kind of make those decisions as a leader, when knowing you've got someone's life in your hand Because you talk about being an intimate leader and knowing your team and things like that and when you have to make decisions that could affect the person that you know's livelihood, like how does that, how do you feel, how do you navigate that?
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, this is interesting because I sometimes, when I'm in this kind of situations, I say would it be easier to have kept that kind of block up where you don't know so much and you just kind of robotically just do everything? But no, because I still think it's important to build those relationships with your team. You know, I try to be as fair and as diplomatic as possible and what I always say is that a lot of things that we do as leaders is confidential, right.
DeVika Bourne:I think people don't find out. But I always say that if something were to happen, if there were some type of cyber attack and everything was exposed, I would be able to stand on every decision I've made if everything came to light right and so, with fairness, with you know, thoughts, with concern, all of the decisions that I've made, I've done to making sure that I keep everybody kind of in view as best as I can, because you can't do it for everybody.
Deshay Caines:That's not possible. So, knowing all of that now right, what do you think is something people misunderstand about you?
DeVika Bourne:I think there's a guard up to some degree because, especially in the office that you need to have, because there's certain conversations you can't have, there's certain information that you know that nobody else knows right, and so it's difficult to navigate that substance sometimes other than just kind of shutting down and being a little bit more yeah, you know recluse.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely.
DeVika Bourne:And I think I carry that sometimes outside of work right, which maybe I can shut it off. I do keep very. I have a very small circle. But that's just me. I'm a creature of habit. I like to, I like my same friends, I like that same group, I like to be able to just have that network that I can depend on and trust and that works for me.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, but I think as we get older as well, to like the having that many, a lot of friends isn't always the right thing. You know like sometimes the people that you think of your friends. You find out that they're not. You get bitten, yes, and then you know, feel some type of way about it.
DeVika Bourne:So I get.
Deshay Caines:I get having less of those core people yeah, for sure. And so how often do you like lean on those guys when it comes to like anything?
DeVika Bourne:Yeah. So I always get concerned that I'm being too heavy, right. So I don't want to be the one who's always just filled with like just something right, but I do always have something going on From a work perspective. I keep that very, very separate, because you kind of need to, especially in being such a small community. So you know, I certain things I just can't talk about right, but personal things I have my, my core friends that I can lean on. You know I've had some really touchy things that have occurred in my life that I've always had that support there really available. We don't talk all the time because we all have lives and we're all busy, but I always knew that, you know, should something go down.
DeVika Bourne:They're there they got your back. You're right, it does right, yeah.
Deshay Caines:So when you think about you know your entire career, you look at the you know gamut of things that you've done. All of that, like what do you look? You can look back and say you know what. This is the why, this is my, why this is my motivation to keep going. You know, I'm sure there's more things in your future that you want to do, especially professionally, as a mom and as a wife, but why do you? What motivates you to keep going?
DeVika Bourne:Well, now, definitely having my daughters, that is a huge motivation.
DeVika Bourne:They are a huge motivation for me to, to want to keep going. I mean, my work in the DNI space is a lot to do with that right, just trying to shape the future, whereas they have a better chance at, you know, growth, success, kind of exposure, all of those things and I speak about that a lot at work. You know, having two daughters, female and black, you know these are definitely barriers that they will have to overcome as they, you know, go through. So now, I think, having having my daughters being in a, in a, coming from a single parent household, it was also very important to me to try to build something for myself that you know resembled a lot more stability for myself, my family and just, you know, being prepared to be to get old right, like you know, ready to to to just, you know, not have to depend on anyone, my children, all of that. So there's a really huge kind of motivations for me, as I, you know, work hard on what I'm doing it for and my, my heart and my life.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, so you said something just now around when you kind of look into crap, I just lost what I was saying. Uh, when you said, said it around going back and breaking glass ceilings and making sure for your daughters that you know they don't have to come into the same environment that you had have come through. Like, what are some of the things as a leader that you're doing in your environment to ensure that you know it's not the same? Things are not having to be done every time? You know there's a new woman that comes into leadership, a black woman, a Romanian woman that comes into leadership, she's not having to go through, quote unquote, break the same glass ceiling that you've had to break. Um, what are some of those things that you're ensuring.
DeVika Bourne:So I mean, now I think we're at a stage where having that there's tough conversations is what's helping to break some of those ceilings Right. So I think, if I'm being really honest, we have a long way to go. Yeah, um, and so just being at a stage to be able to have those conversations, you know that that whole, you know you have a seat at the table. That's not just a meme. Yeah, this is serious. When you do have a seat at the table, you need to make sure that the message that you're saying is heard and understood so that it translates into action when you leave that table Right. And so for me, it's really, really important that you know the journey of us is understood right, and and and why so much of it has to change and become more equitable, more fair. You know a lot, not necessarily easy, because I don't expect anything to be given, but just, you know, balanced, right. That's a place where I can use balance, yeah you're right, absolutely.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, yeah, no, I get it. And I mean, why do you think we're having such a hard time? I mean, the needle's moving right, but it's not moving in a rapid way. Why do you think industry I think it's across the board, not just, you know, the insurance and reinsurance industry but why do you think we're having this? Like we just feel like we're getting to the door and just you know, going back, back and forth, back and forth. Why do you think that is?
DeVika Bourne:I think it's too failed. I think not everybody's really comfortable with the topic. I think people feel like they need to do something around it not necessarily be comfortable with it and proactively want to see change. Right, because I said it in a meeting the other day, I think it's a little disingenuous when you're reactive as a Britannian, as a DNI issues rather than being proactive, right?
DeVika Bourne:So you need to be proactively seeking out opportunities to make some change there.
DeVika Bourne:And then you know, as a leader and I say this too we kind of need to get out of our way, right? So what that means is that we have to step back and say I need to give someone else the tools they need in order to be able to take my role when I'm not ready to be here anymore, right. I also need to understand that if I really want to effect change, if I really want to see the needle move, that understanding that a lot of demographics didn't have exposure to that experience that may mean that, as a leader, I am going to have to take the person that has two years experience rather than five years experience, and help to build them up a little bit, and that's the sacrifice we're going to need to make. We really really want to see change, and until we really sit back and say this is what I'm going to need to do and this is my responsibility if I want to really see something different, I think we're going to keep knocking on their doors and not being able to open them.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, so I agree with you wholeheartedly. Where I get nervous is we're creating these environment, calling them career changers and all that type of stuff. Right, we're welcoming people in and not everyone has the mindset that you do with taking the time to then build them up to where they have to go.
Deshay Caines:And then we're setting people up essentially for failure. And I said this on a different panel and I was essentially like, if you're not in a position in your environment to welcome these people in and train them adequately, you're better off not hiring them, right. But in saying that, with what you just said just now, it's kind of twofold, because it's like we don't want people to not be in the environment. So how do we get companies and organizations to be like you know what? We're going to welcome them in, but we're also going to dedicate the time and resources to train them up adequately.
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, so leaders need to be held to a standard. It needs to be tied to perform it. That's part of your performance, right? That is what you need to do. You can't bring someone in the door and just drop them there and think, oh, I'll figure it out.
DeVika Bourne:I mean, then you're not doing your job and you need to be tied to that. Right. You need to be held to making sure that you're training people up, that you're giving them the opportunity, that you're giving them the exposure, and if you're not, then you're not doing what you've been hired to do, right, and so that makes people feel uncomfortable because nobody wants to be tied to that. But ultimately, what are you doing If you're hiring someone and bringing them in the door and just leaving them they're knowing that they need some assistance and then, in a year, complaining that they aren't doing a good job. What have you done? Support reflection on you as a leader.
DeVika Bourne:It's a poor reflection when you as a leader, and and and I think Us other leaders need to also get comfortable with speaking up when they see that happening. Right, because we also have a responsibility, not just to our teams, yeah, but to all teams and the company, to say, hey, what's going on with that person? Like why are they not Thriving? Why are we not seeing more from them? Is there a performance issue? Leader to leader you can access questions, right, and and kind of you just like holding your friend accountable. Like you don't like a boyfriend. Why can't you say something to so? Why can't you say something to all about? Do issues leading and, and, and? What lack of assistance providing to that employee. That's just brought in.
Deshay Caines:So Do you feel like there's a lot of resistance and More so with men when you do things like that within women, or is it just blanket across the board?
DeVika Bourne:I'm thankful that I work at a company where I don't see that Right. So I think you know that's that's. One fantastic thing about my company is that we I don't have I've now I haven't experienced it, but I can clear, I can see that that would probably be an issue in other Spaces and it could create a little bit of intimidation as well, like not wanting to to really call people out and yeah.
Deshay Caines:So what does like success look like for you ultimately? Right, like I know you said, you've kind of ascended into this role like a little bit Quicker than you expected to initially. But what is what is defining success in this role as a leader of your team?
DeVika Bourne:I think success for me in this role as a leader would be that I have Adequately given Opportunity to my team members, that they felt as though they can thrive, that they they worked for a team that was healthy, that was appreciative, that's. You know they, they were a part of change. Right, we're change wasn't necessarily dictated because we have a lot of change going when I think we're a while in general. Right, but people want to feel part of that and I think that helps with our acceptance. So know that you know they were brought along that journey with us, that their feedback, you know, mattered. If my team members took back and said that about me, I would feel like, yes, I, that's exactly what I wanted to achieve and that would look like success for me, absolutely.
Deshay Caines:Yeah. So I guess it's so crazy because the time goes by so quickly. We're wrapping up a little bit, but I mean, when you look at you, your Inspiration and we talked about your why and your motivating factors, like what would you go back and tell you know, beginning of her career Deveka, what you know now, or even other another woman that's just starting out her career, what would you tell her with all of the knowledge you've kind of have now?
DeVika Bourne:Yeah, a couple of things. Take risk early, right. Try things out like if you don't like it, then move on to something else. But take those risks and really define what you want to do because, look, this is pretty rest of your life, right. Define that by. By trying things out early, early You're gonna get to a stage where risk is too risky. Um, and I think you know One thing that I reflect on a lot is the good will that I've paid into my organization early.
DeVika Bourne:When I call it like at the very beginning right, because I think as we get to a certain stage in our careers where we come mothers, we were stretched a little bit and so because your organization knows you, you've built that reputation. You know your solid no one's gonna question kind of you know, your ability to get things done or to take on additional tasks. Building up that good will right from the very beginning really will pay off in dividends because you will, you could potentially get to a stage where you know you're juggling a lot and so being able to do as much as you did when you were fresh in the door, right out of you know, off of an accounting designation, versus ten years later where you now may have children and and different things like that. That will pay off for you significantly. Right, build that reputation and and make sure that people know you, understand you.
Deshay Caines:That's really really respect that word. Work, product, right. You're producing, absolutely yeah, all right. And then, finally, every question acts, every guest before they leave the couch. When you're no longer on this planet and you're no longer with, you know the people that you love and you know not gonna work there's a long time from now, but what is something that you want to be remembered for? When someone says your name, you want them to say acts that.
DeVika Bourne:I had a lot of integrity, that I was a joy to be around, that I was trustworthy. You know I kept my word honest, that I was. I showed up, you know, and I provided support when I, when I, when they needed it the most, and I made them feel good. Right, because that's a feat. You may not see me, but you would never forget what I did for you inside and how I made you feel so.
Deshay Caines:Well, that's it.
DeVika Bourne:I don't know what it is, what this culture? You know calm yeah yeah, yeah, thank you so much, all right, guys, thanks so much for spending some time with me today.
Deshay Caines:We had the amazing DeVica born on. She is the senior vice president of head of and head of underwriting operations at Partnery. We're really grateful for her sharing her story and her experiences, her leadership style and everything she brings to the table with us today. As always, make sure you head over to the website hustle her podcast, calm, sign up to become a VIP member. You can see DeVica's Bio on there. You can also see some additional of the behind the scenes that we have, as well as like the blogs, and we can do some additional chit chatting there. As always, thank you to our amazing sponsors, brown and Co, as well as 59 front. Thank you so much for spending some time with me today and with DeVica today, and thank you for watching hustle her podcast.
