Hustle Her
Hustle Her
Hustle Her - Teena
As someone who juggles an array of hats, Tina Hostovich—Lockton Insurance's vice chair and an arts advisor appointed by President Biden—joins us to share her inspiring narrative that dances through the corridors of art, literature, and politics. Her debut book, "Welcome to the Jungle," serves as a gateway into her multifaceted life, blending a deep passion for the arts with her professional acumen. During our heart-to-heart, Tina lifts the veil on how personal rituals sustain her vibrancy, and her musical past, which underscores the rejuvenating power of the arts. Together, we traverse the landscape of her journey, from her rough-and-tumble upbringing in Los Angeles to the societal norms that women navigate daily.
Imagine the impressionable days of youth, where family stories of democracy and freedom take root and burgeon into a life dedicated to political engagement and artistic advocacy. Tina reminisces about her evolution from a politically curious college student to a seasoned participant in the political sphere, sharing anecdotes of her encounters with influential women like Michelle Obama and Hillary Clinton. These interactions furthered her dedication to important causes, including healthcare reform and arts education. Our dialogue also broaches the nuanced complexities of achieving equilibrium between career ambitions and personal life, a challenge that resonates across generations in today's workforce.
Capstones of progress are not built without effort; they require the persistent chiseling away at glass ceilings. Tina's narrative is a clarion call to women striving to carve their niches in leadership roles. She candidly discusses the hurdles, from the gendered expectations of yesterday to the collaborative needs of today's workplace. Her empowerment message to young women is clear: seize control, believe in your path, and make an indelible mark. It's a conversation that's not just a reflection but an ignition of ambition, ready to spark the drive in any listener ready to hustle.
It's time for hustle her podcast. I'm your host, deshae Keynes. Hustle her is all about inspiring women through real life experiences that have helped to mold and develop not only me but my guests into the entrepreneurs and leaders we are today. If you're an enterprising woman determined to succeed and looking for a bit of motivation, a bit of tough love and some actionable takeaways to be the best you girl, you are in the right place. Hey guys, and welcome back to hustle her podcast. Thanks so much for tuning in today. Big shout out to our sponsors, brown and company and 59 front. However, we do have a new sponsor for our season that's coming up, and I'll tell you more about that as we approach that time. So be make sure you head over to hustle her podcastcom. Make sure you sign up to be a VIP listener. You can also get some background information about today's guest, as well as give us some feedback about what you thought. As always, super excited that you decided to spend some time with me today, and so now we can get into it.
Speaker 1:My next guest has an amazing resume, right, but what we are leading with today is she is the newest author on the block. She has a new book that is just released. It is called Welcome to the jungle. My next guest is Tina Hostovich. Hi, tina, hey D'Shay.
Speaker 2:I am so excited to be with you. First of all, I love your podcast.
Speaker 1:Thank you, love it, love it, love it.
Speaker 2:And for anybody who's listening, you need to sign up for this podcast. Thank you, and I'm just so honored to be here with you today.
Speaker 1:I'm so excited, so I'm so glad that we led with.
Speaker 2:author right, yeah.
Speaker 1:And the book is out and we're so excited.
Speaker 2:We want everyone to go and get it.
Speaker 1:But you've also done some amazing things as well. So you're also the vice chair Pacific for locked in insurance, correct. And then you have some other titles from the White House as well. So tell me a little bit about this, yeah.
Speaker 2:President Biden appointed me this year as the as an advisor to the arts on his behalf, and I specifically work with the Kennedy Center and I'm also on their board. So, yeah, so it's fun, it's exciting Making a difference in the world with with our arts. Yes, that nourish our soul Absolutely, in addition to our work.
Speaker 1:There you go, got to marry the two Exactly. All right. So we're going to start off with a few questions, get the audience to know you a little bit better, and then we'll jump in from there. All right, all right, so I'm happiest when.
Speaker 2:I'm happiest when I'm with my family and it's quiet time, which is rare. But you know, my husband, my son or animals, and just kind of hanging out at home and taking, and also the times when I'm by myself and just reflecting and having a little quiet time. Okay, finding some peace in an insane world.
Speaker 1:Love that. Okay, tell me your favorite color. Red, red, red, yeah, like bright, like strong, like original red or like more burgundy.
Speaker 2:Kind of more like this almost. But I love red. Red too. I have a bright red car, a bright red Corvette. Could I be more cliche? Where's Prince when we need?
Speaker 1:him. There you go, right, okay, all right, tell me a little bit about your skincare routine. Sure, keep the skin looking fresh, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Do you spend a lot of time on that? Have a great dermatologist, harold Lancer, in Beverly Hills. He's the best. He has a product line. It's amazing. I drink 96 ounces of water a day. It really makes a difference. You do have to spend an inordinate amount of time, you know, at the bathroom, but but your skin is glowing and water, truly, truly is the most nourishing thing, I also try to do a protein based. A more plant protein based diet is better for your skin. And then I use Korean skin skincare products.
Speaker 1:I've heard about this recently. Yeah, glass skin. Yes, but I do. Yeah, I do, lazy girl, korean skincare because, there's like 45 products right If you do it right.
Speaker 2:So I just do the key ones and I've had friends advise me and then I've done trial and error.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and that's my best advice to women, If you want to try something, try it. Yeah, see if you like it. If you don't like it, don't buy it again. But you have to try different things.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly so okay, so that was a sunblock.
Speaker 2:Oh, no matter what your complexion type you need, you need sunblock. You need sunblock skin cancer is not our friend.
Speaker 1:No, not at all. So you make sure you get some block, and I agree with you. I've incorporated into mine as well.
Speaker 2:Great.
Speaker 1:All right, so tell me, do you have a hidden talent?
Speaker 2:I used to write songs.
Speaker 1:I was in a band.
Speaker 2:Really, in high school I was the drummer In a drummer. Yes, because is there anyone cooler than the drummer?
Speaker 1:No, no one's more than the drummer. Not at all.
Speaker 2:At least that was the extensive logic. I used to make that decision. Plus, I had no musical talent. I tried everything else. I tried piano, I tried violin, I tried cello, I tried flute zero talent, but boy, the drums. I found my home found my home and so I was in a band and then I would, I wrote some songs and we sold a demo album and yeah, that went really far, as you can tell, but it was. But it was an adventure and I think life should be an adventure.
Speaker 1:Right At all times. You should be able to do whatever you want to do whenever you want to do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you should. I like that. You probably can. It doesn't always happen.
Speaker 1:It doesn't happen, it rarely happens, but sometimes we do these things that we should just do them, and that's completely fine yeah but we should seek the extraordinary in our lives.
Speaker 2:You're only here once, and during the pandemic I had some health challenges. I had stage three cancer and a stroke, and I'm alive. And so I really had a chance to reflect when the world slowed down about. Oh my God, I must die twice. And I'm here. And now what? What am I here for?
Speaker 1:Why am I here? What do I want?
Speaker 2:to accomplish. This is not a dress rehearsal. We're not coming back necessarily. We don't know. So I think you should seek the extraordinary in your life whenever you can.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, I love that. Tell me who's your closest friend.
Speaker 2:Her name is Linda. We went to high school together. I went to high school in Japan. I was one of those wild children, obviously being the drummer in a band. What was your first clue, right?
Speaker 2:So, in any event, I went to high school in Japan. It was an exchange program and I begged my parents to let me go and I lived with Linda and her family, so her parents were a second set of parents for me. Her mom was Japanese and her father was American military, and she lives in Northern California. I just spent Thanksgiving with her, so we've been friends since 10th grade.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's really cool. Like sometimes you have these lifelong friends, but not everyone has the lifelong friends like that, so you got to cherish them.
Speaker 2:I'm still friends with my best friend from kindergarten. Sylvia my best friend from middle school, Paula, and my best friend from high school, Linda.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's amazing. I love that for you. Okay, so you spend a lot of time on planes.
Speaker 2:I feel like every time we've communicated, recently you're like I've been on a plane.
Speaker 1:So tell me about what you like to do when you're on a plane.
Speaker 2:Okay, I you know. As you know, being on a plane is not the most relaxing, you know, fun expenditure of your time, right, but you got to do it or you never go anywhere. So I've tried to find little rituals. So it's interesting that you ask that things that keep me centered particularly on long flights.
Speaker 1:Yeah, get restless.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I always have two or three books with me that I've been meaning to, one for fun and two nonfiction you know. So I, I get a little education and I get a little, you know, grit and a little gossip and all that. And then I try to watch a movie, okay yeah, and I try to sleep. But I, when I was younger, I could sleep anywhere but no longer so I tend to not sleep on planes anymore but, I, get a lot of movies in.
Speaker 2:And then you know I worked on the book on planes. I did a lot of the book on planes I did that and get up at 430 am every morning and right for two hours before the day begins and everybody's looking for you.
Speaker 1:Right so.
Speaker 2:I did that and I wrote on planes so lots of planes.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, so tell me your favorite movie.
Speaker 2:My favorite movie of all time is Casablanca. Other two, Casablanca and Jimmy, the Jimmy Stewart Christmas movie.
Speaker 1:Okay, so okay.
Speaker 2:It's a wonderful life.
Speaker 1:Okay, it's a wonderful life. There we go.
Speaker 2:I couldn't think of the name either.
Speaker 1:Okay, there you go. Very nice, okay. And then lastly, this like I keep telling everyone, it's become a thing on the podcast, right, so everyone's for a while now, who is your celebrity crush? Or was Keanu?
Speaker 2:Reeves.
Speaker 1:Oh, I met him. You met him. Yes, oh, I love that. He's lovely, okay, he's lovely.
Speaker 2:So I was in. I used to work in Century City, which is near Beverly Hills, just for geography, but it's sort of this was Beverly Hills adjacent, it was Toys R Us.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I went in because my son had a birthday party coming up and he and all his buddies wanted matrix toys right, it's when the first one came out because my son is 27 now, so he was. This was a long time ago. It was the first matrix. So I'm in the store. I have two matrix figurines, one for my son, one for my godson. I get in line. I look up it's Keanu Reeves, I'm not kidding with his sister. That's so cool.
Speaker 2:With his sister and he said, oh, do you want me to sign those? That's cool, that's really cool. So, he's a lovely human being and I admire that very much. And you hear all the Keanu stories.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's really cool. I mean talk about a cool gift for your son and girlfriend right. Like just happened to be in the store at the same time.
Speaker 2:It's such a random, incredible thing, yeah love it.
Speaker 1:OK, so tell me about Little Tina. What did Little Tina want to be? What did she like to do over her sports? The different things she was into.
Speaker 2:Sure, one of the things that I talk about a little bit in the book is I was always a storyteller, because I grew up in an area of Los Angeles that was a little rougher than some and my grandparents came over from the old country, so my family has a very strong attachment to democracy and freedom which we'll talk about later.
Speaker 1:I think yeah.
Speaker 2:But my grandparents came here to escape the Russians and the communists coming to Czechoslovakia, where they were, and my mother's family came over during the potato famine for Ireland. But in both cases there was this strong belief in building a new life, and so I grew up with a lot of this conversation around you can be who you want to be, you can do whatever you want. At the same time, we were of modest means and we lived in a very rough neighborhood in Los.
Speaker 2:Angeles. But I feel very blessed to have grown up there because I learned so much about different people and different cultures and how to get along with people and so my story which I tell in the book. But I'll share with you, if I may. So in elementary school it was kind of rough on the playground at recess right and recess is always such a mind-bill right For sure.
Speaker 1:It's like who can make it up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think even in corporate America and as you become an adult you're sort of doomed to repeat recess, right and the playground. So there were some women, young women, girls at the time, I guess, because they were 12, 11, 12, so girls and they would beat up other girls that they didn't care for or didn't like or had an issue with. So I was other in that neighborhood. I was like the only blonde kid, the only you know all that.
Speaker 2:So I decided that rather than try to learn self-defense in 24 hours, which was a thought yeah, of course that maybe I could just tell a story. So what I did is I told the girls I'll tell you what. Let's go in this corner of the playground.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I'm going to tell you guys a story and then, if you like it, don't hit me. Yeah, again.
Speaker 1:Don't stab me, don't hit me.
Speaker 2:And so the first day there were like six girls and the next day there were more people and more people. So it came to where I had a little story group of about 50 or 60 people every day, five days a week, and it was Shahirazad, you know, if you're familiar with the Arabian night sale she told the story every night so she wouldn't be executed by her husband, the king. So that's what I did every day so I wouldn't be executed.
Speaker 2:So, I was a storyteller, so I was always looking and I was always interested. And when I was growing up differently because I'm a little older than you are women weren't encouraged to do a lot of things that were encouraged to do now my parents were incredibly supportive. They were like, do whatever you want, you don't need anything, hold you back. You need to get an education, you need to build a career, you need to take it seriously.
Speaker 2:But the general mindset was you need to find a man and get married and make sure you're provided for, which I'm sure to you sounds insane and ridiculous.
Speaker 1:No, but I mean, people still think that way right. And you know it's not as common, but you'd be very surprised. I mean, people still think that way and you know, at my age now, people still look at me and are like you're not married or are you married?
Speaker 2:or do you have any kids?
Speaker 1:And so it still is there, and they look at you almost with pity, because your life isn't fulfilled, because you don't have this. You actually have to have a better life.
Speaker 2:I'm sorry, take that out. No kidding.
Speaker 1:But it still happened, so sorry to cut you off.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, no, no, please. I wanted this to be.
Speaker 1:Not as over does it used to be, in the past where it was like you know, you better get married. It was like marriage or school. It wasn't that bad, but it definitely is still very oh. She doesn't have a man, you know, or? You don't have any children, so how could you really enjoy life? Like your life has no meaning that that that the most is actually more insulting than the man part of it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, no, you're right, you're right, and and the world has changed. And women are fifty three percent of the workforce now and they're fifty one percent of med school and law school graduates, I mean the world has changed, and yet society hasn't changed.
Speaker 1:We still look at it in the sense of you know she is. She is not complete, you know without a husband and a family. It's it's true, that is a little bit shocking.
Speaker 2:I mean I tried really hard to make it so you didn't have to put up with that.
Speaker 1:But I did. I did Trust me. I totally appreciate it, but it is still a thing. I read this thing online a few years ago and it's become really popular now. But it was a girl who ran. She was the story online. It's become a meme now and it basically was like she ran into her ex and he was like, oh, is it Mrs whatever? And she was like, actually no, it's doctor, right.
Speaker 2:And so I was like love it right, love it Like no, how about? Who cares about that portion of it? Yeah, it's a real love event, totally irrelevant, yeah, and yet we're losing a generation of young men, because young women are actually doing better than young men right now.
Speaker 2:So we're in kind of a weird inflection point in my opinion and the opinion of others. There's Scott Galloway, who is in charge of the Stern School at NYU and is a famous speaker, philosopher, commentator on society. He's written some books and done a lot of talks. Young men are getting lost because they feel like all the opportunities are going to young women. And it's so bitterly ironic for me because number one that's not totally true and it's such a weird reversal but also as the mother of a young son.
Speaker 2:I think 2 plus 2 can equal 5. If men and women or however you identify can work together more effectively, we can make 5 out of 4 or 10. But if we don't all work together and collaborate we're losing some things.
Speaker 1:It's the truth. So obviously, I work in the DEI space and so many times we have these conversations with people, which it gets a little frustrating and we see it in a gender space as well. It's just because we're highlighting and showcasing some of the things that are where a certain group of people are being disenfranchised or they are not being supported in a way does not take away from what you have been given or have been provided for all this time it's just highlighting that there have been some inequalities and that is the reality of that situation.
Speaker 1:And I think it goes from racially, gender-wise, even from an ageist perspective, disability, all of those things. And it doesn't necessarily mean just because I'm a black woman that you don't have opportunities because you're a white woman. I'm not taking them away from you.
Speaker 2:Everyone can eat. We can all and we can make each other better. Exactly, we can help each other understand, because you don't know what you don't know.
Speaker 1:No, not at all, and unless somebody shares their journey with you.
Speaker 2:Their experience you'll never know. And you'll always think, oh, that's kind of weird, or they're very whatever like an adjective right. Because you don't know and you need to get to know people and talk to them so that you understand.
Speaker 1:Yeah, especially for you, judge right as well, like you've always got to get to know someone, so that's definitely important and I totally agree with you on that. But I guess so you're in school and you've made all the lunchtime stories.
Speaker 2:Yeah, made all the lunchtime stories I've ever wanted to love you.
Speaker 1:So from that, what did you? Go into university to study.
Speaker 2:I was a film student. Back to the storytelling theme, right. So I was a film student at USC and my mother was dying of cancer and so I wasn't able to have a traditional I could have, but I didn't have a traditional college experience because my father and mother talked to me and the money that we needed for my mom's treatment because this was the 80s- and chemotherapy wasn't covered and MRIs weren't covered.
Speaker 2:All the treatment for cancer. None of those things were covered by insurance back in the day Because they were new and nobody knew Seemed experimental then, exactly. So in order to get the treatment to try to keep my mom alive, we needed to use all their savings, and that savings had been earmarked for my college.
Speaker 2:So what I did is I got a job in insurance and I thought, well, I'll put myself through college and then I can help my dad take care of my mom and hopefully we can keep her alive and I can put myself through college.
Speaker 1:So OK, so will you start a career in insurance when?
Speaker 2:I started at Inoue Masanaka, which is a Japanese brokerage firm that became Marsh Japan.
Speaker 1:That's so crazy, isn't that crazy?
Speaker 2:And because I had gone to high school in Japan and spoke Japanese. I don't anymore like I did then. I was younger and it was more recent. But, I did, and so they wanted someone with Western looks and the command of the language and just basic skills to be nice to people when they come in, so that was my first job. I was a receptionist at. Inoue Masanaka, which became Marsh Japan, and then I left and went to Johnson and Higgins after two years and stayed there until the sale to Marsh, to Marsh again.
Speaker 2:Marsh again. All roads seemed to lead Back to Marsh. So then I had a contract.
Speaker 1:I had to stay.
Speaker 2:I stayed, and then I decided to make a change.
Speaker 1:That's so crazy. I mean, the world is so small.
Speaker 2:It is so small.
Speaker 1:How we connected and then come to find out that you worked at Marsh and I now work at Marsh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so crazy.
Speaker 1:It's so crazy, it's a very small world, very small world. And now you're the vice chair for Pacific for Lockton Insurance. So what does that entail?
Speaker 2:So we have 1,000 people in the Pacific, all California pretty much, and we have the most diverse group because California we're the fourth largest economy in the world In the world thank you, Gavin and I have to say that. And also thank you. We're very diverse, which is part of our, I think, part of the richness of California.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I like California. It's definitely a traffic. It's definitely a traffic. I'm not going to defend the traffic, I mean ever. It's terrible yeah yeah, yeah, laura likes California too, all right, Anytime you want to come visit yeah. Come on down. Yeah, come on down Okay.
Speaker 2:So anyway, so, yeah, so during the pandemic particularly and I'm sure you experienced it we wanted to make sure everyone was okay emotionally, in addition to so that's part of my responsibility like just making sure everybody's okay. Like, do they, do they have food issues? Where they're safety challenges, you know, where their mental health challenges? You know? In our DEI DEIA we've added now it is we approach all those issues and we try to really focus on that during the pandemic. That's one of my big responsibilities, big philanthropy how can we use money that you give to not to just do good but to make it make sense business wise as well? And then I'm I do government relations and then I have a book of business, of clients that I love and take care of.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so before we get into the book, because that's what we want to talk about, but before we get into the book, one of the things that I noticed when you sent me the cover is that someone who gave a review on the book was Secretary Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 1:Yeah, now there's not every day that, you know, hillary Clinton can give a comment on a book and you can put it on your book. So, before we get into the book a bit more, walk me through how you got into, kind of like, the political arena and then we're able to have this builder relationship that she felt was a allow you to, you know, review your book.
Speaker 2:Thank you, thank you. So I actually had dinner with her on Monday in DC. So I came here for the via DC. So I have been involved in, I've always been interested in politics and I lived in DC when I so I went to the University of Maryland briefly before I went to USC and so when I lived when I went to the University of Maryland, I was very interested in politics. Because you're right there in the backyard- right of DC.
Speaker 2:And. But I didn't pursue it because I was building a career. I was young, I didn't have a lot of experience, I didn't think I had a lot to offer, but I was fascinated by it. I was fascinated by the process, I was fascinated by the history, all those things right and growing up. The Kennedys were a big influence on me, as they were a lot of people of my generation, and Jackie Kennedy in particular was an influence because she was a woman who took a very cliche, prescribed role and made it very unique and incredibly valuable and she was probably as popular and charismatic as JFK. So she did some amazing things and I actually belong to the White House Historical Association now which she founded. That was her vision.
Speaker 2:She said this is the people's house. Let's make it. Let's make it look pretty. There you go Fix it up, so so anyway, so I've always been interested and involved and watching and but I didn't really have the opportunity to do anything until a friend of mine said, hey, this friend of mine that I've known forever is running for president. I'm like, oh, that's cute. Was Barack Obama?
Speaker 1:Oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, super cute, yeah. So I went to an event and I met Michelle Obama and Dr Biden at that, so I met both of them at the same time, and I was chatting with Dr Biden about community colleges and the education model in the United States, and then I had the opportunity to talk to the amazing Michelle Obama.
Speaker 1:Amazing. Yeah, it is incredible.
Speaker 2:I can't say anything, Everything everybody thinks is true. She is extraordinary. And so we were chatting and at these events, if you chat with one of the principles longer than three minutes, it's like a lifetime, right, it's like dog years. So we talked for 15 minutes. I thought, oh my God, they're going to throw me out. But at the end of it she turned to me and said you know, we need you off the sidelines and on the field.
Speaker 1:So you're going to do that right.
Speaker 2:Yes, ma'am, yeah.
Speaker 1:What do you say to Michelle Obama? Yeah, no, I'm good. Thanks, michelle. No, not at all yeah, no.
Speaker 2:So I just said, of course. I am Of course I am, and so after that and then I was a fan of the Clintons. From when he was a kid, I was president and my parents really admired the Clintons and they were both still alive when he was president.
Speaker 1:My mom passed away after that.
Speaker 2:But my dad passed away too. But I always admired them but I didn't know them and I wasn't part of that circle. So when she was Secretary of State and I was working for Michelle and Barack, I was at the White House and I got to meet Secretary Clinton and I was so fangirl, I was so fangirl. And I was that way with Michelle Obama and then Hillary Clinton.
Speaker 2:So when I spoke to Secretary Clinton for the first time, it was just such a lovely conversation and we took a picture. And then, the next thing I know, about three months later, someone in her circle reached out to me and said they were doing an event for the Clinton Foundation and that Secretary Clinton thought I might be interested in getting involved. So I got involved in the Clinton Foundation then and also working for the Obama's.
Speaker 1:So what did you do for the Obama's during their time in office?
Speaker 2:So there was a there's a advisory group called Presidential Partners and it's where you commit to raise money, support it and participate in key issues. My issue that I asked to be involved with and I asked to be allowed to work on was the healthcare reform, Because I saw what that did to my family not having money for medical bills and I see what happens to other people and in the US, and I think you have more of the British system here, yeah, see, and so, and we don't, as you know and we don't have a safety net really.
Speaker 2:So Secretary Clinton actually tried to get something similar when she was the first lady, but she got so much hate. Right People are like why is that first lady trying to?
Speaker 1:do it, yeah, anyway, so that's I think it's a vanity kind of position as opposed to real work being done. Right, and it was real work, but people didn't want to hear it.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So finally Barack Obama was able to get it passed, and Nancy Pelosi was hugely instrumental in getting the support. But to me, that was my passion. I didn't want people to have to choose between food and medicine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think that's okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the right thing to do.
Speaker 1:I don't want anybody we should not be having to choose. I'm not going to eat today or pay for my medication.
Speaker 2:Right and healthcare is not it is a human right. Healthcare is a human right 100%. It's not a luxury or good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no one is self-inflicting some of the things that happen to people on themselves. You know what I mean. So being able to have basic care is-.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and if you don't have it, you're going to get sick or Exactly. Because then you're going to have to rely on the emergency room as your primary care physician.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it just goes down hell from there Absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And so okay, so, and then sorry. And then now in the Biden administration, you have a role there as well.
Speaker 2:Yes, the advisory council to the arts. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:The President Biden recently appointed you on that Correct.
Speaker 2:Yes, he did in May.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, nice and how and what does that-? What does that actually?
Speaker 2:entail. So there's meetings, and so recently there was an event at the White House where we did the premium laureate awards in conjunction with the government of Japan.
Speaker 2:Got it, and so I have the opportunity, as part of this advisory group, to be involved with other countries and their arts programs, which I find fascinating, yeah, and this in particular since I went to high school in Japan. Dr Biden thought I might be interested in participating Absolutely, and Secretary Clinton this is her event because she introduced it when she was first lady Nice. So I recently got to do that. I went earlier this year when Bruce Springsteen and Amy Tang and some other oh I love it folks got the medal for Humanities and the.
Speaker 2:Arts and so you know, just being part of it and being in meetings and having the conversation as a nation. What should we-, what should the role of our arts be? How can it support our citizens and how do we make it accessible for everyone? I think those are the challenges, yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's really good work as well you know yeah. And sometimes when you hear you know White House and committees and these types of things we think we don't necessarily always think of the arts. I think that that's a really good kind of way to get that out there, and it's good that they're doing that and continuing the work from.
Speaker 2:Hillary.
Speaker 1:Clinton Secretary, Clinton as well.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, it's so important. Yeah, absolutely, you're in the arts as well as an insurance. I mean, I guess I guess we can call this the arts, I don't know, you're filmmaking, I don't know I realize heavily, laura, you're filmmaking team.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we will leave that one. I won't claim that one too much. I wish I could claim that part of it. But you know, that side of it we definitely leave to LDS.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:It's all good, all right, so you wrote this book, and so you started to write it during the pandemic, right?
Speaker 2:No, I started to write it this year, this year, yeah, I work up New Year's Day and I said, okay, so I'm cancer-free two years. Wow, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Congratulations. Thank you Thank you.
Speaker 2:I was treated at the city of hope, which is a phenomenal. It's where my mom died, but it is a phenomenal institution and this is 30 years later and it was phenomenal the treatment and then, of course, and then the stroke and then trying to get my arms around the job and the global pandemic and everything that was going on. But I woke up New Year's Day and I thought I'm here for a reason. I didn't die twice. So what is it that I think I still need to do? And I decided that when I was young, if I had had a book that was like an honest friend talking to me, giving me advice, saying no, don't do that, it's really stupid.
Speaker 1:Here's why.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but do this, and here's why it's a really good thing. You know, just like somebody that you would trust, who has your best interest at heart.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:If I had had a guide, it would have changed my world. So I thought I can write what I've learned. Even if it only helps a couple people, maybe it'll make a difference for women in particular.
Speaker 1:I've wrote it for young men as well, but it's focused my lived experiences as a woman, yeah, and as a woman, absolutely, and I think that's relatable as well. We should all have target markets, but that doesn't mean that it isn't for anyone else.
Speaker 2:That is exclusive. Yeah, right, exactly.
Speaker 1:So the book is entitled Welcome to the Jungle, my.
Speaker 2:Journey from the Reception Desk to Sea Sweets.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so started the reception desk and then you ended up in the sea sweep position. So I mean, obviously the book gives us a lot of good advice and how to do that and what to do, what not to do. But in your career, like what would you say was, I guess, the best thing you did to advance your career?
Speaker 2:It's really hard to not be afraid. It's really hard and to take risks and through other women really, and in the beginning of my career, other women were the enemy, you know, because there wasn't a lot of camaraderie and support. It was. There were only going to be two women and there's five of you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It was that, because, god knows, we need a quote oh my God, we couldn't have more than two women. We can't have three.
Speaker 2:My God, the world would come to an end and the sun won't come up in the morning. So but I did over time, other women that. I watched and that I did respect mostly clients frankly because colleagues weren't as supportive in the beginning as they are now, but back then they weren't. But clients, there were women at clients and one of them said to me don't ask, don't get. And I thought, well, no, because they'll just tell me no. And they did tell me no, but you just keep asking but, you have to learn to do that.
Speaker 2:So I think I would. If I were writing a letter to my younger self. I would give myself permission to ask for more and I would understand that I have the right to expect more, even if other people don't think I do. And I tried to keep that point of view. But it's hard. It's hard when, when you're one of the first ones and everybody's telling you no and everybody's telling you go away. And you know, I still have those experiences. I was at an event last week and you know when people talk to you and they're being very dismissive and you can see they've looked at you and they've made a judgment.
Speaker 1:And then they start looking for you, yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, she's this, this and this, and, but they don't know you. They don't know anything about you, but they make those decisions and so you're always going to have that. You're always going to have people who think that whatever you're doing is wrong. Don't worry about other people Absolutely. If you've spent your life trying to make other people happy and please other people, you will never be happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that's really difficult for women, though it's very well, pleasers? Yeah, we're pleasers. And then also back to your point in the beginning, around, you know, we were also. A lot of people were raised to want to be married and to be a mom. And those I don't want to say jobs, but those I guess positions that you kind of have are also very much serving of other people, traditionally Right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So and you end up being the last person on the list that you kind of look after with that.
Speaker 2:Very much so.
Speaker 1:So it's very difficult to not do that, especially when you become a mom. I assume yeah.
Speaker 2:And that and that is a hard and that's my second book is going to do so. The first book is maybe the first 20 years of your career and how to get set up and how to think about your life and how to make sure you don't end up with a life that wasn't what you intended to create. Got it, you know, yeah, John Lennon has a great line from one of his songs life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans, and that can. That happens for most people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:And you have to be very intentional in order to not let that happen to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And when you start having children or start having more traditional responsibilities, everybody starts to dismiss you again, and so you have to fight to not get ignored and you have to be able to do so. It's kind of like, well, you can take care of your kids, but that's your hobby. Now we still expect the same things.
Speaker 1:Gotcha. So how do you, what advice do you give to fight that?
Speaker 2:You have to. You just have to be flexible, you have to be willing to compromise.
Speaker 2:You're never going to be able to give 100% to anything, but you can. Sometimes you can give 110 over here and sometimes you can give 50 and sometimes you can give 30. You just have to learn and you learn by trial and error and you know and you do your very, very best, absolutely Hearts in the right place. I mean, I wanted my son to be taken care of and be happy. I wanted my husband to be happy. I wanted my boss to be happy, my client, you know, we want everybody to be happy, right. But in order to accomplish that, sometimes we have to take a back seat. But you have to remind yourself again back to that it's not a dress rehearsal and you do have to make your family your priority sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Sometimes it has to be you too. They're not mutually exclusive. We are capable of doing more than one behavior and holding more than one thought.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, of course. It's definitely something that we can do, and I think we have to, as women, embrace that as well, right?
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:So this idea of having a perfect work-life balance, like what do you think about that? It's not possible. Yeah, it's not possible, and I love that we're finally there right. Because it was such a buzz term and phrase for so long. You got to get your work-life balance in check and this, that and the other, and you know, got to spend more time at home and get it perfectly balanced. But that is so not possible. It will never be perfect.
Speaker 2:You'll never be perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then you'll be crazy. Yeah, and then you really need some balance, like a different type of balance, right?
Speaker 2:And then you might end up, you know, with some comfort rituals like drinking or other things that are not good. Exactly, you don't want that. No, you don't want that. And then that leads down to a different you know road, Then you have a whole different set of problems.
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely. So, when you were writing the book right and you were like, what are some of the key things you wanted to convey, yes, like, tell me some of those things. Well, give it to me too much, because we want you guys to go and get the book right. So give me some of the key things you wanted you want readers to take away from the book that they can kind of you know, wet the whistle a little bit. Sure.
Speaker 2:Thank you. That's what I'm going to talk about your intention, setting your intention and always being in that place and everything you do, and so I talk about some pretty straightforward things like you know how you should interact with human resources as an example, because it's a little different than what you might think from the outside. I also talk about IT. You want to make friends with the people who fix your computer. Got that right and you're stranded and you're 10 hours ahead on the other side of the world, so you know some really basic stuff like that.
Speaker 2:But I also talk about moments in your life where let's say that you're the student and you have a mentor and it's great and it's been a great relationship, but then, as time goes on, you become the master. How do you handle that transition that can change your relationship and shake up some things? I talk about that. I talk about you know your behavior and what's and I'm just really honest because I know people, particularly my son's generation. They're like we don't want all your rules. I'm not giving you rules. I'm telling you how people will view you. It's your choice.
Speaker 1:And here's the thing. I say that at work as well, especially with our younger generations. So we have Gen Z years are coming into the workforce.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my son is Gen Z. They're kicking the door stone. Right there they are.
Speaker 1:And here's the thing, and I actually appreciate their views on life and I appreciate what they bring to their table. They love to balance their personal time and they're not workaholics like what we were taught to be as millennials and our parents. You know, it wasn't like that. But what they do not, I think, factor in is that Generation X, as well as our boomers, are still in the workforce.
Speaker 2:Right, we have four generations now.
Speaker 1:Four generations in the workforce now and they still work in a specific way and more times than not and not all the time, but more times than not are late, late bloom boomers, I should say. And then our more senior, you know, generation X, are the ones in the leadership positions. So, while you have this outlook on life, that is different and I respect it as a millennia they don't.
Speaker 2:You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And you have to play the game sometimes in order to get ahead. So I think that that's very, very good advice, that what you're saying there, because not everyone looks at it that way.
Speaker 2:No, you're right, and it's a big challenge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the multi-generational workforce, yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's even a challenge on college campuses right now. There are so many issues that divide us in the United States, and a big one right now, obviously, it's the war in Ukraine and the war in Israel. Yeah, gaza. So there's a lot of conflict in America, there's a lot of conflict on college campuses and there's a lot of different feelings from generations and there's and I do respect Gen Z and I do agree what I appreciate is that, having been sort of having come up in the corporate world, which felt like being raised by a British nanny Right, keep calm, carry on, stiff upper lip, I don't want to hear it.
Speaker 2:Just do your job, work, work, work, just carry on Fine. But I appreciate that they question things which we weren't really taught to do. No, we were discouraged. I'm a boomer, so especially me. Millennials had a little more leeway.
Speaker 1:maybe we did have a bit more leeway, I think, with that, but we were raised by generations you were raised by boomers. Yeah boomers and some generation acts, depending on where they kind of fall, where the work life balance, part of it, when we want to use that term, is more on the work side.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It like we were still kind of the evolution of what our parents wanted to be.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:We were a little bit more spoiled. We got the things that our parents didn't have. Like you know, our parents might have gotten a full right to university, but for us it was they might have paid or it might have been a combination. Yes, Whereas these Gen Zers and I say these Gen Zers because they're my younger siblings- but these Gen Zers, it's a completely different kind of environment that they were brought into. I think they're spoon fed a lot more than we, a lot of different generations, were.
Speaker 1:And I think that it's okay to some extent.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Because I think that shows the evolution of where a lot of different you know households are now Right Right, which is good.
Speaker 2:It is good. It is good. The problem is because we're not talking to each other. There's a lot of misunderstand. Yeah, for sure so you have boomers saying oh, this is lazy Right.
Speaker 1:They say that about us as millennials, for sure yeah.
Speaker 2:And yet. And then my son is like boomers, you ruined the planet.
Speaker 1:You know, you know.
Speaker 2:But at the same time, we're about to witness the largest transfer of wealth in history as boomers die, I mean so millennials and Gen Zers are going to be raking it in. Yeah, that's true and I know it's kind of feel like quit, quit, trashing me for wrecking the planet when you're going to inherit it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there you go.
Speaker 2:But that's not the point, and the point is we just need to understand each other.
Speaker 1:I do agree. And to your point about the earning part of it, I was reading something the other day, I can't remember where, and it was saying that Gen Zers are probably going to be the first generation to not out earn their parents.
Speaker 2:Wow, I did not know that. Yeah, I can't remember where it was. It makes sense when you think about it, it makes sense.
Speaker 1:And I need to remember where I found that for so I can put a little you know sub underneath to give whoever wrote that credit. But I remember reading it and I was like that actually makes sense, because for so long generations were doing better than their parents.
Speaker 2:Correct, and that was the goal. Yeah, every generation's goal was, you know, have your children do better than you did.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and that's what you kind of wanted. So it was the first generation to go to university, and then it was the next to be doctors and lawyers and all those types of things. And now we're changing the game and you're giving everyone this amazing advice for the beginning parts of their career, right, yeah, I love this so much, so you have a point here. In welcome to the jungle, you'll discover how to lay the foundation for a successful career and life, right? So what? What?
Speaker 2:is the life part of it. The life part is you know it's so easy we were talking about it, about the balance being on the work side more so. Only you can make you happy, right? Only you know what you want, only you know what your dreams are. I could tell you I think you should do this and you'd be like, yeah, thanks, good. But or maybe you'll say, oh, that's interesting, but the point is you have to build your own life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it is your responsibility. Yeah, absolutely, that's what happens to you it can be.
Speaker 2:It can be, and I've been in that situation where I've had years where life is all about what's happening to me, not what. I'm doing not what I'm getting out of my life, but but that should be the exception, absolutely, and you have to work at it. And so I talk about that Plan your life. What do you want? You asked the question earlier when are you you're happiest? You need to incorporate that, because if you build this fabulous life but you're not happy, what have you got? What do you have?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean the thing is it depends on what makes you happy, too right, because some people say money don't buy happiness, but the thing about it is Well there's a money helps, well there's a.
Speaker 2:there's a threshold. Yeah, they've done studies. There's an amount of money that does make you happy and everything in advance of that in excess of that it doesn't make you.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gotcha, so it's that what's that number I? Don't know and we don't know, and it's got to be different for everyone, cause one is relative to one how much you earn, right, right, how much you make, and then what you can and cannot afford based on that earning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what your spending habits are right, absolutely. Some people love to do fabulous trips and vacations and some people don't. Yeah, some people have a more modest life, but they're happy.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's those things right. And it's different for everyone.
Speaker 2:Everybody has a different number, but there is a number.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so you're a woman in leadership right. And I think we have to take into account the female, that you are a female, you're a woman and with that, what are some of the things that you would say were very different for you, in kind of the matriculation of your career?
Speaker 2:There were expectations in the beginning of my career, like when I've got my first job. They said, oh, and, by the way, you have to clean the bathroom, no kidding, you have to make coffee, you have to wash the dishes, the bathroom of the president of the company.
Speaker 1:Gosh, but his own bathroom.
Speaker 2:I've aspired to that my whole career. I don't have one. What?
Speaker 1:I don't think I'm ever going to get one. They make offices different nowadays right, I know. I'm like I'm not going to get one.
Speaker 2:But anyway, but he had one, so I so, though I had to feed his fish like he had some weird. So, in addition to work, in addition to certificates of insurance, in addition to typing memos or whatever the assignment was you had to do that. So it's kind of like well, you're a woman, but you're the help, like if they're, let let there not be any confusion in your mind, honey, you're the help and you, you need to remember that. And so that was like oh, cause I wasn't raised like that.
Speaker 2:My parents were like what do you think? Should we do this? Do you want to do? You know, they weren't like, yeah, they didn't make me feel like I should be raised to be a servant, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 2:So there was that, and obviously the sexual harassment the me too. You know we could make a movie about that stuff, but it was really bad back in the day. It hasn't gone away, though. I mean Jeffrey Epstein died in 2019. I know they're still trafficking, there's still abuse, there's still things that happen to me that I'm shocked by.
Speaker 1:Yeah, to this day.
Speaker 2:To this day.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's crazy when you look back at like your career and all these things that have happened right and we say you know, we still have to say like the first woman to do this, or the first this or the first that or whatever. Why do you feel like we're constantly breaking these glass ceilings? As women like constantly having to shatter this first thing all over again?
Speaker 2:All the time Because no one wants to give up power. Right, it's the truth. That's why incumbent presidents run for reelection, no matter what I mean. Power is is the ultimate drug in so many ways, yep, and so the people that hold the power or have historically held the power, the cliche old white dudes right Yep.
Speaker 2:They've historically held the power, so they're not going to just say, okay, you're right, it's your turn. Yeah, if you have a lot of power, you're not going to willingly, just here you go. Let me know how it goes. Yeah, you're going to be like well, wait a minute.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure I'm comfortable with this.
Speaker 2:So, as women, we've just come to the table where we're over 50% right. Over 50% in the workforce, over 50% of doctors, lawyers, indian chiefs, you know, astronauts, whatever the case may be, we're there, we're at a critical mass, but we're still trying. We're still having to say but you're right, the first one, the second woman the third woman.
Speaker 2:Whatever, I think 10 years from now that won't be as strong, but I think in the meantime we need to find a way for genders to work together more effectively for the younger people, because they don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so if a young woman takes your book and she's reading it, what is something that you would want her to get from this so that she isn't feeling like she's continuing to have to break the glass ceiling?
Speaker 2:I want her to believe it, to understand that she can believe in herself and that building the career is within her control.
Speaker 1:This isn't.
Speaker 2:You can. It's hard. Sometimes there are moments when you're like I don't know if I can do this. It's just too hard and too frustrating and too upsetting or too hurtful or name an adjective but you have the control. You can make it happen as much as you possibly can. You don't have control over everything. So I want young women to know this is your journey, this is your life this is your career. These are some things that will help you think about what that looks like in 20 years and is what it looks like in 20 years going to be what you are dreaming of?
Speaker 1:now, absolutely Wow. We're almost at time. This is crazy Wow. I went by so fast, I know it happens all the time, and when I get the signal from, I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm scrambling to make sure I've gotten everything together, but no, I think the cool thing about doing episodes about this is learning about you.
Speaker 1:Yes, but also with the book it's like. So we're giving you a taste. You got to go get it so you can read it Right, and so we want everyone to know that welcome to the jungle will be out, and it's available at now.
Speaker 2:It'll be available on January 8th on Amazon.
Speaker 1:Yes, january 8th on Amazon Perfect, and that's where everyone can get it.
Speaker 2:Right Perfect.
Speaker 1:All right, and so, before everyone leaves the couch, my final question is always what do you want to be remembered for, right? So, when you're no longer here, which is going to be a very long time? For now, not the words Right no longer here, and you know someone says Tina, and all the things that you've done you know you've got your tentacles raised to so many different places Like, what do you want at the core of it to be remembered for?
Speaker 2:I want to be thought of as someone who actually made a difference, use their time here to make things better yes, to make people. To help people become the best versions of themselves, to help the world solve some problems and to to help my friends and family just have a better life.
Speaker 1:Absolutely Make a difference. Yes, absolutely. We love that, all right, thank you.
Speaker 2:Thank you, such an honor. Thank you for being here today Speaking of Totally appreciated All right, guys.
Speaker 1:So we had such a great episode with Tina, who has a book that will be in store while in on Amazon on January the eighth. It is called Welcome to the to the jungle my journey from the reception desk to the C suite. Make sure you head over to Amazon and get the book. You can get it delivered right to your home. What we'd love to do is the next time she's in Bermuda we can do a part two of some sort. I got a bit of more of a deep dive into the book, so that way everyone's had some time to read it and we can kind of move forward from there.
Speaker 1:As always, big shout out to our C current season sponsors, which is Brown and Co and 59 front, and then our next season sponsor, which is a welcome to the jungle. So we are so excited to have them on board for this next upcoming season and we can't wait for you guys to read the book and give us our your feedback on what you think about the book. As always, thank you for spending some time with me today. Make sure you head over to the website hustleheartpodcastcom. You can get some behind the scenes with myself and Tina, as well as the show notes, as well as a little bit about on the blog about at this episode, and then you can also tell me what you thought about the episode there as well. Make sure you sign up as a VIP listener so you can get some insights, so you can get some additional things that we'll be giving away from some of our sponsors and, as always, I appreciate you. Thank you for spending some time with me and for watching a Sahara podcast.
