Hustle Her
Hustle Her
Hustle Her - Tina
When Tina Laws, renowned intimacy coach and relationship expert, sat down with me, Deshay Caines, we didn't just rehash the common relationship rhetoric. Our conversation unearthed the raw and often silent battles within abusive relationships, the importance of maintaining one's identity after saying "I do," and the powerful legacy we can build when we properly balance our work and personal lives. Tina's revelations about the significance of seeking professional help and her insightful advice for couples and women in leadership roles offer a blueprint for those navigating the complexities of love, ambition, and self-discovery.
Ever wondered how to keep your sense of self when your world revolves around others? This episode is a treasure trove of wisdom on embracing individuality in marriage and the transformative power of stepping back from a high-stress job for the sake of your health and relationships. From the simplicity of Tina's skincare routine to the intricate dynamics of family silence amidst abuse, we journey through personal anecdotes and expert insights that remind us of the strength in vulnerability and the growth that comes from hardship.
As Tina Laws shares her admiration for 50 Cent and opens up about her own personal journey, you'll find yourself moved by the honesty and encouraged by the advice imparted. We tackle the heavy topics with heart and clarity, unafraid to confront the silent struggles and celebrate the triumphs of women everywhere. Join us for an episode that's as much about finding your pathway to joy and success as it is about the honest conversations we need to have along the way.
I'm a hustler baby. It's time for Hustle Her podcast. I'm your host, deshae Caines. Hustle Her is all about inspiring women through real life experiences that have helped to mold and develop not only me, of motivation, a bit of tough love and some actionable takeaways to be the best. You, girl, you are in the right place. Hey guys, and welcome back to Hustle Heart Podcast, as always. Thank you so much for spending some time with me today. I really appreciate it. If you're watching this episode on YouTube, make sure you like this episode, but also make sure you head over to the page and you subscribe, as always. Go to wwwhustleherpodcastcom to sign up to be a VIP listener. We give some really cool giveaways to our VIP listeners, as well as being able to get all of the episodes a little bit earlier than everyone else and access to the show notes as well as the blog. Super excited about my guest today she is the amazing Miss Tina Laws. She's also an accredited intimacy coach and a relationship expert. Thank you, thank you for having me today.
Tina Laws:Yes, how are you? I'm wonderful, wonderful.
Deshay Caines:Okay, so we're going to start off with a few rapid fire questions, so ask a question. First thing that comes to mind tell me okay, all right, I'm happiest when with my family. All right, what do you do on a plane after you put up your suitcase and you sit down? What's the first thing you like to do? Talk?
Tina Laws:talk my husband saying awful to you. I was sitting with me. Why are you nervous? Yeah okay, you don't like to fly. I don't like flying. Okay, all right, so but yeah, your skin is amazing.
Deshay Caines:Tell us the skincare routine soap and water that's it literally soap and water oh, I wish that was my skincare routine. Not at all. Somebody takes my coins every month okay when you got your first big paycheck. What do you remember spending it on? When you spend your money yourself?
Tina Laws:Probably something for my children or my family.
Deshay Caines:Okay, all right. Who's your closest friends?
Tina Laws:Well, my husband is my buddy buddy, but that's the pillow talk guy.
Deshay Caines:Everything right.
Tina Laws:But my closest I would say my mom Okay, yeah, my mom and my children. And then there's amazing friends that I have.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, I love that. Okay, what does love feel like?
Tina Laws:Oh, my goodness, Love just feels. I'm on a podcast, right so, but love feels connected committed kind sexy, loving, um just understanding, connecting with somebody where you don't have to talk, they understand, they get you. That's love. That's my husband and I's love.
Deshay Caines:I love that. What are you listening to right now? Music podcasts. What do you like to listen to?
Tina Laws:Myself. I don't have much time to listen to anything, so when I get those times of silence for me, that's exactly how I spend it in silence.
Deshay Caines:Okay, and then?
Tina Laws:what's a hidden talent? I have many of them, but I'll talk about one that I would like to have as a hidden talent.
Deshay Caines:And.
Tina Laws:I would love to get into boxing. I love boxing Really. Love, love, love, love boxing.
Deshay Caines:Okay, all right, so you go to all the fights and everything, not all of them but I need to, but I watch them.
Tina Laws:That's the only thing that I get an adrenaline rush. Nothing else moves me but that.
Deshay Caines:Really, wow, the adrenaline rush. Nothing else moves me about that, really, oh, wow, okay. And before, your husband growing up, who was your celebrity crush?
Tina Laws:well before my husband. I didn't have any um celebrity crushes, but it was always 50 cents. Really, girl, I'm a gangster behind the scenes 50 cent and vaseline snipes, to be honest, okay, okay.
Deshay Caines:Well, tina, you learn something new every single day all right, and then finally, who's your cart match team oh, St George's, oh, who else?
Tina Laws:all right. And you know, I grew up in a house interviews over.
Deshay Caines:Interviews over.
Tina Laws:I knew that's what my family when I was a young child growing up, everybody was somerset my mom, my brother, my sister and because my dad, which he lived in st george's and steel doors I said I'll stick with my dad's team, st george's. So that's my team.
Deshay Caines:All right, lara's finally got, uh, a person on her side right now. There you go, there you go, literally. Oh, everyone, everyone today has been some, as lara's been three against one all day. I've got you there we go there we go. So you mentioned your dad living in St George's, so tell me about your time as a child. What did you like to get into? What were your sports? What did you like to play with?
Tina Laws:I was never into sports, Really Never never, never. You know what I did. I did a lot of playing with my dolls cutting hair.
Deshay Caines:That's one of the things that I do really, really well, that's another hidden talent.
Tina Laws:I could be here right now we really cut.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, expert, yeah, yeah, I even went to school for it.
Tina Laws:That's something people probably nails I did all of that, um, but when I was growing up, it was more so just playing with dolls and being inside, being with my mom, learn how to cook and those type of things. Rerun, redecorate my home. What was changing around my bedroom?
Deshay Caines:that's what I did oh, I love changing around my bedroom or like my house. I love a little change around yeah yeah, I did.
Tina Laws:I was. I was always a child that always believed that I didn't fit in. Why I? Because I didn't laugh and other people laughed. I didn't. I didn't um associating clusters like other people did, and so now that's a gift, but at that time I was like am I old?
Deshay Caines:yeah, okay and so and so that was as a little girl. So when you went into high school and you said you mentioned about going to cosmetology school and stuff, what made you want to do that?
Tina Laws:because I always liked hair. I liked beauty. You know, if anybody knows me, today I have this haircut and next week I'll have weed. I tried a week that didn't work out for me, but I like changing hair. I like hair, I like makeup, I like, and I don't wear a lot of it but I just like beauty, I like transforming people. I like people to be transformed.
Deshay Caines:That's the one thing we can do overnight yeah, change the way we look our hair and change our face if we wanted to yeah, black woman superpower, absolutely no, I absolutely love that and I love that we're embracing it more as well. You know, like back in the day it was like, oh, I don't want to do that or maybe I should wait until it looks this way or that way, and if that's's what I feel like doing today, that's what I'm going to do. Absolutely yeah, and I absolutely love that. That's our power.
Deshay Caines:Exactly no, I totally agree. So in your bio you have listed as an experienced relationship and intimacy consultant and an accredited mediator. Walk me through how you got to these things.
Tina Laws:So let me just start with this. One of the things I didn't say was, from very young, I was solving people's problems. Oh my goodness, I don't know how I even got in that position of everybody turning to me, and even when I was a teen in a relationship which we'll probably talk about a little later, that was unhealthy and everybody for some reason thought it was the perfect couple, and so they all came to me. You know, how do you this, how do you that you're committed, and so forth. But, um, I think when I ran away to school as an adult, I remember praying and saying lord, please take all these people from. Everybody just leans on me for these relationships. So that's something that I wanted to run away from. But once I got into school and I found that was happening continuously of people I didn't even know, yeah, I said, okay, lord, what's really going on here? What's your reason in all of this? So I got certified many, many years ago, before people were even talking about coaches or relationship coaches.
Deshay Caines:I just did it, or life coaching yeah life coaching and stuff like that.
Tina Laws:So one of the things that I decided later on, which is now, is do what you're good at. Do what people turn to you for. Do what your heart desires. Do what you're most passionate about doing. Do what you really do and do really well. So that's why I do what I do, and becoming an accredited mediator is.
Tina Laws:A lot of my professional career has been in the prison system right, because I have a master's degree in criminal justice and working within the prison, I learned so much about how to manage conflict and situations I'm sure offend us, yeah, or with our colleagues alike, right, because I'm keeping it real here and so one of the things was that I learned this is really, really necessary, and so I went and got accredited and here I am, yeah, I love that.
Deshay Caines:So how does that weave into the relationship side of it like mediating, because I'm assuming that you talk to couples as well. Well, with intimacy, how does the mediation pair with?
Tina Laws:that so, funny enough, every relationship, most of the issues or challenges you have, it's called conflict, right, so why not? But just so I clarify, I'm a mediator that specializes in the working environment.
Deshay Caines:Ah okay, same techniques, different people yeah situations and scenarios but that's how they fit in for relationships any situation, anybody has a breakup or problem. It's conflict yeah, it's usually conflict and people not knowing how to talk through it yeah, that's usually based around communication or the lack thereof? Yeah, definitely so. Under construction came to play because of what so?
Tina Laws:So in 2016, a girlfriend and I we actually were sitting in our office I was working as a preparation officer at the time and she had left her business and I said you know what am I doing here? And one of the things that I did and I did quite often was I used to work with a lot of women professional women in abusive relationships. A lot of people didn't know it, I just did it because that was something I did and me being a survivor, that was just second nature to me. And so it was probably a year in, or maybe a couple of months in, I said you know, I need to take this full time Because I was one of my clients and if she listens to this, she'll know One of my clients. She worked at an exam company, I'll say that and she was a leader of a team. And she came to me and she said Tina, why don't you do this full time? What is wrong? And I said I don't know. I never thought about it. What's the calling for this?
Tina Laws:So I started doing domestic violence for professional women and families because clients had said to me Tina, we need you, we need you as a private entity. And so I said because clients have said to me Tina, we need you, we need you as a private entity, wow. And so I said okay, because I knew myself as a survivor. I had never went to a charity I have nothing against a charity, right but I just felt us Bermudians were very private. What goes on in our hands stays in our hands. That's what parents or grandparents or great-grandparents say.
Deshay Caines:So that was a service that I figured I'll offer to professional women in these roles, wow, and so you created this safe space for them to feel comfortable coming to you to have these conversations. So sometimes you know the best people to talk to are the people who have been through different scenarios and they know how to kind of guide you through that. So you mentioned that you're a domestic violence survivor, so can you tell me a little bit more about how you survived?
Tina Laws:Oh my goodness. Well, thankfully and I say thankfully because I was a teen, right, I was a teen. I became a mom and one day I just decided, watching my son's actions. One time in school I said this is time I need to get away, because what we don't think about sometimes we just look at. We love somebody, somebody. We think this is the perfect relationship. You know, we have children. Some people don't, but if you have children, you want to grow up and keep your children with their parents right together as a family. Um, and because my mom was a single mom, that's something that I wanted.
Tina Laws:yeah, definitely died for right but I think it got to a point of where I saw my son displaying certain things that only he could have displayed because he had seen, yeah, and so that was my breaking point for me to say bye-bye, and I never turned back, wow so dealing with domestic violence as a teen.
Deshay Caines:How did that impact your family, your immediate family like? Did they know about it or was that something you were hiding?
Tina Laws:I was hiding, I, oh yeah, I definitely didn't tell anybody because I knew that if I would have told someone because I still thought I loved him and I knew now that was in love with just a team- right it's amazing how we look back and like that was in love, yeah, and it was what a joke.
Tina Laws:Yeah, but um, because I I it's funny enough while I was in that relationship I didn't want anybody else to not like him while I was trying to figure it out myself, because I knew deep down that I wanted to stay. If only he, and it was always if only he. Right. And so it got to a space of how many times are we going to say if only he. But for me it was my son, but for other people could be a broken arm, chipped tooth, black eye I mean, I had one of them too but it could be many things as to why people stay. But I think when we get past that stage of if only he or if only she because women are abusive too right, if only he. That was the breaking point for me to say walk away. But also for me to say you know, as a teen, you know what you need to be a representation for your son. You know you need to be a representation for your son. You know you need to be a representation for your son.
Deshay Caines:But the point you did ask because I could get real deep in there.
Tina Laws:It's okay, no, please explain, I never said anything to my family because one I wasn't sure when I was going to be fully finished Gotcha, and each time I was finished I was hoping they would get help Heaven's earning this from her, because we didn't even know where to go at that time. Right, and as a guy, that's something we never talked about and Bermuda seldom talks about that Right, but that's that's prevalent Right. So, um, for guy needing help. So I didn't say anything because I was hoping he'll change. And the other thing was I just knew that he might be in a lot of trouble if I told my mom and my brother what would have happened to him.
Tina Laws:I just kept it to myself no, no, no.
Deshay Caines:I get that yeah.
Tina Laws:I just kept it to myself. But later, after walking away and sharing bits and pieces with my mom bits and pieces I found out that she too was a survivor Wow. And so I wish now, looking back, I would have said something, because she could have told me what I can tell my daughter now and or son, but at that time I was embarrassed, I didn't want to say anything because I was hoping it would work. It was just so many things you think about. We could save each other, we got each other's back, we love each other. You know all of this and my son.
Tina Laws:So you think and say, well, maybe I shouldn't say anything right now until I'm sure and it really wasn't until 2017 when I went public in Royal Gazette as a result of a client going public to say I was a survivor that I tell everybody. Nobody really knew. And it was probably two weeks before that, my son laid across the foot of our bed and I said I've been asked to tell my story. And I said you don't know this, but this is it. What is your thoughts? And tell my story. And I said you don't know this, but this is it. What is your thoughts? And once he gave me the clear, I went full speed ahead. So it was I had captured a secret, and I've still kept a lot of things just to myself, but I kept it a secret for so many years but why?
Deshay Caines:why do you feel like back then?
Tina Laws:because I think nobody talked about it, right? Nobody. Much more people talk about it now. But when you look at breast cancer, you look at HIV, you look at autism and the various things that people talk about that they have. Now we do all sorts of walks and Relay for Life. Everybody's talking about it. So other people are comfortable with coming on and saying I have breast cancer, I have this cancer, I have prostate or even prostate for men.
Tina Laws:They're talking now, but at that time you very seldom heard any conversations around it and the conversations if you did hear those conversations it was more like shh, shh, keep it a secret. You know, or listen? We've been married for 100 years and we just let that happen. All you have to do is A, b, c and D to make things work. Just keep quiet and do what he wants you to do. Basically, so nobody really talked about it. And then you think about this person was in college, so he had a reputable family per se, right, and so you don't want to embarrass people, so everything's a secret at that time. So I'm still at it, trying to process in my mind how can we make this public for everybody to know that? It's okay, he was in the situation, it's okay, and know that it's okay. It was in the situation, it's okay. And no, it's not okay to be abused. No, it's not okay to think that somebody's going to change. You're not crazy, but what is okay is that you get help. What is okay is that if you stay for 10 years, you still can be provided with support while you stay.
Tina Laws:Yeah, you know many people don't talk because they're not ready to walk away, but a lot, lot of my clients they stay. Sometimes they go back, they leave and go back. So my support is supporting them while they stay. My prayer is that they walk away, because you think about what if he pushes her and hits the end of the table? What if that one day where he kills her or she becomes a vegetable, he becomes a vegetable? But in the interim, how can we better help people? How can we better support them? How? But in the interim, how can we better help people? How can we better support them? How can we better be their heir when family is sick and tired of telling you just leave? So a lot of what we hear from even agencies is just leave. It's not that easy and for the most part, a lot of people don't talk because you tell them to leave. So I'm that person.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, absolutely. So when you look back now, right, and you think of that time in your life and everything that you had going on, what would you, in an advice you would have given to yourself during that time, what would you have said to your younger self in that moment to kind of, maybe, if not going as long, or just what advice would you have done in that time?
Tina Laws:frame one trust yourself. We don't trust ourselves because at a young age we really don't know who we are, so we just trust what we think other people think that we're supposed to be doing got you. The other thing is find ourselves some hobbies. Find that thing in which we would like to do for ourselves. Find a thing that you could advance in. Go to school, pick up a hobby, you know. Find something that you really love to do outside of any relationships yeah, okay, and that's, I think.
Deshay Caines:When you have something else to kind of hold on to or to look forward to, you're living for not just that person, you're living for you as well.
Tina Laws:So I'm assuming that that's the guidance behind that absolutely okay and I think that's what happens to many of us, not just young teens, but relationships period. You get in relationships and people become that, becomes their life. I love my husband. I'm in love with my husband after 100 years, but guess what?
Tina Laws:he's not my life, yeah, you understand. So, the things in which I want to do, I focus on them, and I can do that too, because I have a supportive husband, right, but had he not been supportive, I would still do it, because that's just who I am now got you. So I and I found things that I love to do outside of I'm married. I'm going to do everything with my husband yes, I do. However, what's that thing in which I enjoy doing? What's that thing keeps me up, sometimes, most nights? You know what's that thing I could do as an independent woman, so I can be proud of myself as an individual person.
Deshay Caines:Yeah.
Deshay Caines:No, I think that's really important because sometimes, you know, we see it especially, you know, as we all get older and in our friends and things, people who are very just focused on and there's nothing wrong with being a mother and a wife, do not get me wrong, that's not what I'm saying but what we then see is that morphing of, when the children get older and they move out of the house or they get a divorce the struggle to know who they are, who you are, struggle to know who they are, who you are. Um, so how do we help women? Or what advice would you say to women who are in that position? Um, right now, and they're happy, right like the wife, mom, doing all the things, but might not necessarily know who deshae is or know who tina is what would you say to help them to not be in those positions?
Deshay Caines:should you know, the children are going to leave regardless, but if divorce were to happen, um what would you give? What advice would you give them?
Tina Laws:so one of the things I do is try to prevent divorce, but what I often say is that we can't tell people what to do. Yeah, right, um. And so what I usually would do is ask them what do you see for yourself, what are some of the things in which you would like to do or always dreamed of doing, but you never done it because you became a mom, like me, for one, um, and, and why not do it? Let's get together, let's work this out how can we?
Tina Laws:get you doing it right. Just try, even if it's a course or something, try it and see how much you like and then let's just go full for it, let's advance in it. So I would say to people you know one, you don't have to divorce unless it's really abusive and not healthy. But I say one, find out who you are as individuals, because that's where we get lost. I was a teen mom, so all I knew was motherhood.
Deshay Caines:All I knew is survival.
Tina Laws:All I knew is that I had to do what was best so that my son and my daughter that's coming behind me they could see a great example which you don't usually see until they're now adults. But that's all I knew. I knew I had to survive. I knew that I was mom and people say who are you? At that time it was I'm a mom, right. And so what I would say to people is that once your children are out empty nestle like us were empty nestles but once your children are out, it'd be good if you could do it beforehand. But if you don't find that thing in which you always thought, I wonder, wonder if I can. I wonder if I can be an interior designer, I wonder if I could cut hair, I wonder if I not everything's a gift. You figure that out too. But I say do some research, just venture into some of the things in which you like to do and, yes, some couples do things together Absolutely but you have to find that one or two things that you enjoy doing by yourself. That way you can feel like you've accomplished something on your own, not just being a mother or a father, but on your own. Who am I now Right. So I would say find that thing in which you like to do. So that's usually what I do with clients I find out where they're at, what do they want, and then when we find out what they don't want, then we try to get you there. I love that.
Tina Laws:So tell me how you met your husband. Oh, my goodness, you know how I met my husband? No girl sitting at a bar, listen, my girlfriend. Actually, my girlfriend had machine. She had invited me out, right, and she said come on, let's go. And I had been through, I had um, cut off my ex and I was like I'm not doing this anymore. She said you can't, you're becoming a hermit, just get out. And I had started going to church. I had started going to church. Right, I started going to church and, um, my grandmother's 70 event is. So I grew up 70 and I grew up Sunday, but that's another story anyway, that's a lot of trash girl.
Deshay Caines:Oh my god, oh my goodness. I hope somebody understands that okay.
Tina Laws:So, um, I, I, I, my girlfriend, come on, let's go out. And I said, okay. So it was her and another girlfriend and we said let's go. We went to Anchorage it's clear as dawn now, but anyway, I think it's Stars or whatever it's called now but nevertheless we went, and any time I went out I was all to myself. Guys always say we don't want to talk to you because you're friends, whatever. So, anyway, I was sitting there and, funny enough, I never, ever do this and my girlfriend would tell me she shouldn't tell anybody. She's actually told this story many times. I was sitting here at the bar and I never sat at the bar, but I sat there. It was real quiet and I said let me order a drink.
Tina Laws:Okay let me do this Now. I had to. I got a Bacardi and Coke, that's what it was, and I saw this guy walk in. He was over to the end. He walked in looking around. I said who are you looking for? So my girlfriend said hey, she knew him. So I said who's that? Uh-oh, and she said who's that? You went, brother, come here, come here, come here. And we just sat and started talking and she was sitting in between us. I don't even remember her moving. She said she just, we was like this in front of us. She said, let me just excuse myself, that's all I'm at. Was it because she was in my wedding as well? But she knew because I had never asked somebody to introduce me? And it just I don't even know. So, even though we met in the bar, I had been praying prior to that that God.
Deshay Caines:Let the Lord use you in any way.
Tina Laws:It doesn't matter where it is. That's why I say you know, god uses anyway, but um, that's why I can't discriminate. We can't judge people.
Deshay Caines:You sure can God uses things you have to those stars.
Tina Laws:No, I'm joking so what happened was, um, from there I said you know before that I said, lord, find me somebody for my son and I find me somebody that nurse me. All those things and you're as full speed ahead. That's everything I prayed for. Is who he is, and more so, even though we had little trials and tribulations in the beginning. More so because I had been in a relationship and he never knew even that I was coming broken. So it was me and my relationship that had to do a lot of healing and change and and and really addressing some of those things that I bought from the previous relationship. But overall, his patience. I know he loves me because I'm a piece of work. So I was a, I was a major piece of work back then, so he hung around. So, yeah, that's it. That's how I met my husband. I love that, love him, and I'm still. I said the other day, we, I still love him. Everything about love, love, love him.
Deshay Caines:So I knew that's God. Yeah, absolutely, and you know who cares about where it was. But, like you know, that's who your person was meant to be. That's who your person was meant to be and that's how that goes. Yeah, so you talk about, you know every relationship has issues, right or challenges that you work through and things like that, and you're an advocate for not divorcing, obviously extenuating circumstances. Put aside that we have that assumption. What are some of the things and tools that couples need in order to not get to the point where they're getting in a they're having a divorce because of x, y and z?
Tina Laws:yeah, one of the things I find is that we become so comfortable that we think it's okay to just be comfortable and that. And I said it like that because, for instance, um, we think it's okay you meet your husband looking like that, how beautiful you look, sitting there, right, thank you. And then, yeah. And then five years in sometimes one for some people, but time, five years in, he don't even remember who you were. He's looking in shock like who is this? Now? Everybody like I'm.
Tina Laws:My husband don't like makeup. He loved my hair when it was long and so I do what I like with that. However, however, know we have to keep ourselves appealing, but not just for him or for yourself, right? And so when you start going downhill, that speaks a lot about what you're going through, what you're feeling about yourself. So when you don't feel as positive and as confident, as pretty about yourself, how are you conveying that to your husband? So now you're not as sexy as you used to be, looking in the physical appearance and neither do you feel it. So what do you think is going to be transferred to your husband? Never thought about it like that, right? So people say to me my goodness, you got this color her, do this, that color.
Tina Laws:I crack a joke and say, well, my husband's got this one today, that one today, that one today, right. But the reality is that's just how I try and keep the spark right, not just for him but for myself. So if I feel good, if I look in the mirror and I say, girl, yeah, girl, you're one bad mama, you look good, right, I do that even though my husband don't like lipstick, he prefers I not cut my hair. I look in the mirror, honey, you look good. He sees me like that because if he don't, somebody else will. That's a given. Yeah, let's keep it real. It's the truth. Yeah, I mean, I'm not interested in nobody else.
Tina Laws:And likewise him, somebody else, him too, it's called the real world, and I think, sometimes we get lost in TV.
Tina Laws:We get lost in TV, but I think, you know, that's one of the things that we do. We become too comfortable. Sometimes we take each other for granted, right, and so it's so many areas that we have to focus on or not in our marriage. And I think sometimes one of the things I find, too, is that we include. Maybe our career takes over that's one of the reasons why I work with leaders, right and in in this area, as women, but our career takes over. That takes precedent, right? And our family. Sometimes we invest so much in telling everybody, even our friends, telling everybody about what we're experiencing and that your husband or wife hasn't a clue, right, and so we're looking for everybody else to fix these relationships rather than us being present in our relationships.
Deshay Caines:What is your view on people who talk about their relationship issues to other people?
Tina Laws:well, I would say I'm not professionals, like to their friends, just babble on yeah and you hear how I say babble on, because that's what it becomes right it becomes, especially because most of us I'm not gonna say I had never done it most of us who do that and do it often we seldom take the advice. The reason we keep doing this because we're not taking the advice and you're telling the person saying being over, yeah, right. So I I would say now, at this stage in my life and my career, is that you know we have people like me and other people who you can support, that can support you confidential and could give you sound advice. Yeah, absolutely think about it.
Tina Laws:When you talk to your friends and family, the heart's in it for you. So the minute you say something that sounds like it it when you talk to your friends and family, the heart's in it for you. So the minute you say something that sounds like it's going against you or hurting your feelings or all those things, they'll be crying with you automatically. It's like I don't want him for you, I don't like him, and you see him, you're telling him off and that shouldn't happen especially if you're married.
Tina Laws:That shouldn't happen.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, and Then, once you've forgiven them, they haven't.
Tina Laws:Oh, absolutely not, it's just tense all over the place, Tense all over the place. And the reality is to me that's kind of being, that's like you're being deceitful. Yeah, because does your husband or wife know you're sitting or talking to he or she about your personal things and information that you haven't even talked to them about or worked out? Yeah, yeah, no, I wouldn't want that.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, absolutely worked out. Yeah, yeah, no, I wouldn't want that. Yeah, absolutely, and then you're not giving, you're only giving one side of the story as well, right. So the advice that you're getting back is not a well-run opinion.
Tina Laws:It's not because and if you know your friends, you should know too that I also often say to my friends you want me to tell you truth or do you want to hear what you want to hear?
Tina Laws:and they say well, tina, I'm asking because I know you're going to tell me the truth. I said well because I know how didn't tell me the truth. I said well because I know how you are. You have to stop A, b, c and D. That's why he's doing it. So sometimes that happens too. But, like you said, we will tend to take our friend's side more than anything.
Deshay Caines:Yeah, absolutely. I think. And it's difficult to kind of look at it from a holistic perspective when you're invested right In the relationship, from a friend perspective or a sibling or whatever, um, but I think you know, as relationships morph and grow and people in your life, they, they can tend to try and be balanced. But yeah, I do think talking to professional is definitely the way to go 100, and I think it's also, I know, in the black community. For a really long time, seeking professional help was frowned upon or you didn't talk about it. I think we're getting to a better place now where people are seeking help, more so than they ever did before. So that's really helpful.
Tina Laws:It is, and I find a lot of men like I started working with a lot of women. I work with women, but I work with men as well, because men are calling to say well, tina, what is wrong with my wife, or what do I need to do to fix this, or how can we fix this Okay?
Tina Laws:Whereas before they didn't. Can we fix this right? Um, whereas before they didn't. But what's happening? I think now, since the pandemic mostly too, I think people realize listen, I don't care who it is, I just need somebody that's going to help me. And if somebody else refers, that's how I got a lot of clients. If sally say a tn, is great, let me try. If it don't work, it don't work, but let me try it anyway.
Deshay Caines:Yeah yeah, because people are looking for the additional help and I do agree with you this COVID as well. I think that people were losing their mind, being stuck in the house with people. They didn't like that. We spent a lot of time together, right? So let's talk about um, I guess the pivot in your career to becoming an executive director, and the role that many people aspire to. But can you share with me, I, I guess, how important this achievement was to you personally and professionally at that point in your life?
Tina Laws:Sure, sure sure, well, from a young girl, like I tell you, I was always the old one out. But I knew I always wanted family. I knew I always wanted to save us women. I don't know why I feel like we've got to be saved right. But growing up back then and I grew up back in town, happy Valley, and I'm sure your family, could relate.
Deshay Caines:Absolutely Not far from your old family. One time for the HVs.
Tina Laws:Right, I saw a lot. I saw a lot of conflict. I saw a lot of fighting. I saw a lot of mix match of families. I saw a lot of a lot, yeah.
Tina Laws:And so me being that person that was always on the side, standing and learning from other people that seemed like they really knew him and I wasn't it gave me a great opportunity to do a lot of observing other people, and so I saw those people that this one didn't look right. That didn't look right. I said, well, wait a minute, something's not right there. Even though I couldn't figure it out back then, I always knew, growing up through teens and adult and into that role, I always knew I wanted to help save somebody. So that was a role that I figured wasn't specifically that place, but that was a rule in which I wanted to accomplish okay, because I knew that would be the rule in which I can fix and save everybody. And, um, I prayed for that for years, but then I realized that that wasn't what God had called me to do. He called me to do that. He just didn't call me to do it there okay.
Deshay Caines:so at what moment did you realize that that your demanding career was taking a toll on your marriage and your wellbeing as well, Cause you put in your bio that you were having some physical challenges during that time too?
Tina Laws:I think three months in, I was there for 12 and that was a stretch. But three months in I realized that it was changing who I was as as a person, and one of the things that, for me, is important to me is that at home at least I have that safe space at home. Yeah, at least, in spite of what goes on outside of my home, I know I can go in, I can laugh. If my husband, he could fix it, he can give me a hug and I feel, okay, that became a change, got it? That was more so. I was, I was becoming somebody else, I wasn't sleeping and all those things, but, um, so that started impacting my marriage, but so much so that, as as months went on, I was like I was trying to hoping he could fix it for me. You know, I was talking to him and it's like what can I do about this? What can I do about that? How can I handle that? You know, and it became tiresome for him, I'm sure, but because I was stressed out about it, I wanted him to fix it. So that was stressful for him, because he is one to usually help me see things from a total different light. He couldn't, because he saw it for what it was Like. I saw it for what it was, which was a good thing for once, because usually he says now tina is not that, but this time he saw it for what it was right, and so I think that was the challenge.
Tina Laws:And then let me talk about health. Girl, I lost my hair. People don't know this, but you're gonna know. I lost my hair. I had a big patch in the front of my head and the back. Stress. I wasn't sleeping, um, and I've not. I've always had thick, healthy hair. I lost my hair. Thankfully I had enough to pull it over and then I got weaved so that was normal for me so nobody knew.
Tina Laws:I suffered with vertigo. My doctor was sick and tired of seeing me insomnia. I was becoming so stressed of my role, just being in a place that I shouldn't be in, that it made me sick, and so me being sick, me being stressed what do you think that happened? What happened when I?
Tina Laws:got home exactly because he couldn't fix it yeah, um, he couldn't fix it, but he knew that I wanted a role as such, so he didn't tell me to walk away. So it was 12 months in and a certain situation took place and you know, I I was privy to allowing my husband to even overhear what, what had happened, um, because it was on the telephone and that was the memory where he, he, knew himself. It was time it was all of that or I get sick, or he'd be visiting me somewhere where I shouldn't have been, where I walk out of. So, yeah, so we had to make that decision, um, but you know what, on the flip side of that, it took me a while to get through that and over there, because I felt like I failed our community.
Tina Laws:But now, and it's been for a while, god allowed that. Why? Because it got me in a position where, for years, I've worked with women, professional women, and I've heard the stories, I've heard the cries, I've heard the stories, I've heard the cries, I've heard how they've managed or not in a marriage and or in the working environment. I've heard all this stuff that they do it by colleagues and bosses and board members, and I've heard all these stories. But I know now. God allowed me to be in that role so that I can personally not only did I experience domestic violence, not only did I grow up in a time where I saw conflict many of us did in our culture, but I also now was sitting around the table and personally experienced it. So now when I sit with people, I honestly can say I understand. Before I say I understand, but how can we do this. Now I say, oh my goodness, I understand. So how can we do this so you don't lose your hair like I did? Got you.
Deshay Caines:No, I totally get that and I think I think the flip side to what you're saying now and understanding where you're coming from, and a lot of people don't understand that perspective, they have this kind of judgmental view because even in your bio it says you chose to walk away from a job that you wanted to save your marriage and for your health. So what do you say to people who don't get that and don't agree with? And not saying that they have to agree with your decisions but don't agree with your decision to walk away from a job that at the time thought was, you know, the holy grail to save your marriage well, you know, not every.
Tina Laws:So one of the things I do is help you not to do what I had to do. Um, if I had planned it better, if I had had the tools, if I knew what to expect, I probably wouldn't have taken the job from the beginning, but I did so for people that's experiencing that now. I don't tell everybody to walk away, because everybody don't have that entrepreneurial spirit. Everybody's not like me without a parachute. That's me. So how do you manage? You have to sit back and really think about how is this impacting you? Yeah, right, and remember that if you are married, if you're married and or in a committed relationship, you have to now do some reassessing. What does that relationship look like? Because you need that blow Like when you get that blow, you need that cushion. Where's that cushion coming from? Yeah, you can see a therapist, you can see a coach, like people see me. But you also, when you go home and lay your head down, you want that cushion to be that cushion and you want that person next to you. You want them to be the question too, absolutely.
Tina Laws:And so I say what start there? Start there. You don't have to leave. But if you're like me and you believe God's got a greater calling on your life. Do what you have to do, you know, but don't do because somebody else tells you to do. Don't do because that was my stance. Do because you feel this is what you've been called to do for me. I knew I wasn't supposed to be there the third month I never felt like I belonged. I walked around there every day, never felt it, never. And I said Lord, why aren't I feeling this? And now, a year later, I said wow, okay, lord, now.
Tina Laws:I get it like I I get why I was there.
Deshay Caines:I get that I've got to help other people now.
Tina Laws:Yeah, right, and also there are so many more things for me to do that I see that I wouldn't have never been able to do in any of these spaces, right and so, yeah, so I'm very happy about taking that opportunity. I'm happy that I listened to two of my close girlfriends that are in HR two businesses, successful businesses to just stick it out, stick it out, stick it out for a year and I was like it's killing me, I don't know um, with everything that was going on with it. I see now that that made sense to me. It made sense to me because now I'm better equipped. I saw other women. Other women had talked to me in their spaces and said you know, oh, my god, just hearing these stories.
Tina Laws:I've sat around boardrooms. I've I've seen people show up in certain environments and be cruel. I've've seen people and not cruel because they wanted to. Sometimes it's cruel because you don't know no better, and a lot of it comes from when you leave her. You bring a lot of your mass work. So back to why is it important that if you're in a marriage and you're in a leadership role or you're leading somebody else's life, you need to make sure you have a plan? Because if you don't have a plan to succeed, what happens? You fail. So for me, that rule taught me how to be the better me. That rule helped me to understand other leaders in these positions. That rule helped me to get into all the homes in Bermuda all over the world Berlin, switzerland, london.
Tina Laws:The homes that I get into virtually, praise God for that, but that will help me to now sit right next to somebody to say I understand and experience in it. I can say this is what you can do next or not. Do so for me. I. I I'm credited to that because I say Lord, thank you. That's all I can say. I didn't understand it, but I don't, I don't argue, thank you.
Deshay Caines:Thank you. No, I totally understand that and I think we're in a time now where we hear these things that women should or can have it all right, and so sometimes a feminist can look and say I can't believe she left her job for her marriage. You should be able to do both. Your husband should understand. But given the context of what you've said here today, like what is your hope that people will take from your decision to do what you did, well, one, I'm here to help you so you don't have to do.
Tina Laws:That's one. But two follow your heart, follow your life, and what I mean by that is, if it's killing you, it's not worth it. How many people have had heart attacks and lost their lives because they've been stressed? I have a girlfriend that lost her life from being so stressed out on her job in a leadership position. There are many people, so there's a lot of reasons why I do what I do. Right, yeah, but there are many people that are going to work for the sake of money. I make all this money and my lifestyle goes with it. So how can I leave? Well, I'll tell you what your health is more important. So my health took precedent my marriage. That person that god said what your health is more important, so my health took precedent my marriage. That person I go to said this is your person and he is my person. That took precedent Because, even though people look and say my husband will never tell me what to do, well, if that's your partner, what is a partnership?
Tina Laws:So, if you are in partnership, both of you either or should feel the disconnect, and then you should be like you should be like a scale, you start tilting something's off. You don't want to tilt it, you want to be balanced right. And so, for me, I looked at it as I also looked at. People don't realize it's family, it's children. What would that do to our children? If me or anybody else is selfish enough to say I'm making ten dollars a month, right, and I used to make four, right, and the heck with him or her, I'm divorcing them because if.
Tina Laws:I divorce them, I can make even more. What happens to the children? What happens to the family? Everything becomes everything's disconnected right. So everybody suffers. So if we can prevent that, let's prevent it. You know, we look and say, as black women yes, me, too Many of us. I watched my mama work three and four jobs all my life. That's why I made a decision that I wasn't going to do that. Right, but many of us black people, we had to fight. We've been fighting since the cotton picking cotton.
Deshay Caines:Honestly we're houses right.
Tina Laws:I mean think of our grandparents and my mom, my dad, everybody who work, work, work and their idea of success is working to make sure you can pay your bills. That's not my idea of success. So when people look at me, I've had people say you're crazy. I literally resigned the year I turned 50. And I made a decision that it wasn't about my age, because that's not my age, as my bishop would say. Right, but 50, to me was the moment for me to just flourish. I got 53 this year and there is nothing. There is no regrets I have in my life. There's no regrets, and once I decided that that was what I wanted to do.
Tina Laws:that's what I've been doing ever since, and so when I go into organizations to help people say all the time you're the person to call they say how are you so good at what you do? Well, I grew up back a time, so check this. I grew up and and and I was very combative. So you learn those things from your grandparents. You learn those things from your parents, everybody. There's nobody exempt from seeing the argument of your parents say that I'm gonna help you out here because you're telling that's untrue. Like I say, a lie is untrue, but I, I think for me, I learned it and I mastered it. How can we get better at this?
Tina Laws:So when I go, and work in environments with mediation. I just love the understatement. I love what I do when I work with couples and have to manage the conflict. I love what I do. I can do it with my eyes closed, so that's how I know I'm called to do what I do.
Tina Laws:So when I look back at the year May 21st, 2021, I think I resigned. That was the day I resigned, three o'clock. How do I know? Because I was very intentional. I resigned at that time and at that moment, I knew what I wanted to do. I knew that when I walked away, I was going to be doing more than what I could ever do in that room. So that's why I did what I did did and I'm so thankful for the opportunity right, because it allowed me to help other people. Initially, I felt bad and guilty that I wasn't helping the community. That's domestic violence and the various little things that I used to deal with there. I what I dealt with there was like a, a quarter of what I deal with. No, no, right. And so I look at it and say, wow, am I making? But guess what? That's the best decision I could have made, taking that rule and every other rule yeah, no, absolutely.
Deshay Caines:I do want to go back just a little bit.
Deshay Caines:So we spoke you spoke about, uh, helping women in leadership positions, right, and so what we're seeing now in trends of women is a lot more women moving into middle management and leadership positions, and but what we are also seeing on the flip side of that are marriages not succeeding in those same veins.
Deshay Caines:Right, and a lot of times these women are women. We're in a position right now where women are out earning men right In certain spaces, and sometimes what we're also seeing with that is those marriages are not lasting because the women may not feel that, you know, the man is being a man and not upheld in their side of the bargain, and then the flip side of that is the man might be a bit intimidated by that. Like, what advice do you kind of give to women who are pursuing their careers, excelling in their careers, but their partner may not be excelling at the same space, same pace as them? How do we, how do we combat this trend of divorce that we're seeing, with successful black women in particular, um, that are divorcing at at really a rapid rate?
Tina Laws:yeah, it is one of the things I often say is let's not compare each other right. Sometimes, why people divorce it's not because she got promoted, it's not because she's making more money. They were divorced way before she even got the job. It was just functioning, they was just living together. Yeah, so you know, sometimes there are people that got married that wasn't even meant to be married. But I'm gonna make this work. We have children or child or all those things. Some people just wait until the children's other than her. It's so many reasons why people don't work and there are some relationships that you can work with. That's no abuse in sight, right?
Tina Laws:yeah that they were never in love from the beginning. So you can't force people to fall in love. But what I say is if, if two people are intentional and they really want this marriage to work and they love each other in spite of the differences, that's a situation you can work out. But if two people don't love each other, in spite of the differences, that's a situation you can work on. But if two people don't love each other and they didn't love each other, they don't even like each other. Is it? Is it worth really holding on to something that is not there? And in some instances I would say absolutely, if you both want it. But if it's only one relationships or two, right. All there is is three, four, right.
Deshay Caines:So we're not going to talk about them, that's a different conversation.
Tina Laws:That's a real conversation. It's true, it's very, very true. But I say, if two people decide to stand before god say, oh, I do for the rest of our lives, it's after us partying, right. If you do that, there's something there. Try it at least. I have couples where they were gonna divorce and now they aren't divorcing. So I'm thankful for that Absolutely. And then I say, lord, I'm doing my job. I don't know what you're giving me, but you're giving me something to do, right.
Tina Laws:And then I've had people that really say you know what? I don't think we even liked each other from the beginning and we only got married because we was pregnant, or we got married because, um, we went to school, we came back, we were both successful. Yeah, he lost his job. Ah, you understand. So sometimes people look and say you know, I'm making $10 and he's making three. What good is he to me? Well then you have to wonder what is your marriage built on? Is it because he makes $3? Or is it because you just don't love him or you lot don't get along?
Tina Laws:Because really, I said about that, pillar my husband's, my cushion. So rather, my husband came in three dollars or four. I know that my husband will work 24 hours a day to make sure that I'm okay, you understand. I know that no matter what I need, he'll make it happen, so I don't care if I make. I want to retire my husband. People laugh when I say it. I want to retire my husband because my husband's been a mess and sent me school and done all sorts of supported our family. So I want to retire my husband because my husband's been a mayor, since he sent me to school and done all sorts of support to our family. So I want to send them. I want to retire them.
Deshay Caines:What are people going to say then? They'll have something to say, but that's your business.
Tina Laws:But guess what? For me, that would be an opportunity where we could do more together while I'm traveling and doing what I have to do. Right, we could do more together. So that's just my door process. Right, having that cushion, having that support.
Tina Laws:But what happens when you find those couples that the guys feel intimidated? Well, sometimes they're not really intimidated. That's what we women say. Right, you're intimidated because of this. Oh yeah, maybe you're jealous, and that's true, sometimes they're jealous. But I think, if you include that partner because, like we say, it's both men and women that experience this If you include your partner along the way, it's not going to be a year in and you decide I'm getting a promotion, I want a divorce because you don't agree, you have never included him. Sometimes we get in these spaces and we see successful men and women and feel like they're better because in their career they're more successful. So now you start connecting, you're with them more. So now you start looking at your partner like his last thing or she's last thing, because she doesn't have this um, she doesn't sit in the boardroom with her spike heels, or she doesn't. She doesn't boss around a team, she's just her and being a housewife just, you're right, I heard the.
Tina Laws:Just I heard it right, and so I think I think it all depends on that couple. How much do you want this? You know how much do you respect each other as a couple. You know how much do you respect your family and children? Some couples are together because of these children, and I think that's a blessing, sometimes in disguise, because sometimes you can lose your way, but then you remember what was the family? Yes, yeah, absolutely so. I think it's important. But overall, when people say I have a couple that, um, I worked with no longer um, thankfully they're doing well.
Tina Laws:She was convinced that he was insecure, jealous and so many other things. But come to find out he wasn't any of those things. He just felt like he was never included. He just felt like, you know, he didn't mind her. He was proud of her, that she was in the room which she was in, and financially they were fine, so he was happy about that. What he didn't like was her turn. What he didn't like was what I know too to be coming home and falling asleep. What he didn't like is he stresses and that he couldn't help her with it. So now he became the problem too. So that's what tends to happen a lot of times that partner, who now that partner is, that's not in that world. With you they become the problem because now you can't fix it.
Deshay Caines:Well, I'm, I'm like blown away I, just because obviously I'm not married. That's clear. All my, my readers know that. Listeners know that. But you know, you, you see a lot of things right like you have friends who are married. You, I, my parents, are still married. Well, my dad and my stepmom are still married. You know my uncles, my grandparents, all that type of stuff. But you don't, you don't always see in those settings what it took to stay married right. So hearing these types of things and how to work through that is is definitely, I think, very valuable. But you know, obviously we've gone back into the relationship very, very heavy. But looking back at everything that you've accomplished also, you look amazing for your age. By the way, I had no idea um there you there.
Tina Laws:I had no idea.
Deshay Caines:So, looking at everything that you've accomplished and everything that you've been through, and not having any regrets, I mean, you look back on your life and you know you are no longer here very long time from now, but very long. What do you want people to say about Tina? What do you want to be remembered for, based on all the work that you're doing?
Tina Laws:Yeah. So, to be honest, I have no interest in what people say. Really, I just want to leave a legacy for my grands, because I have grandchildren and my children, right, and even when they have children, children, grand, grand, grand that don't even know me, I want them to be able to say the type of person that Nana was right, the person that would drop and do anything. Family always comes first. So that's something that I want to instill in them, and you know, when you put your family first, everything else naturally falls behind, right, and so I think I think what's important and what many of us um forget, is that family, sure, come first, right, but we get in our careers and let me go back to this we get in our careers as black women, right or up against black men or even white men or different cultures. Period.
Tina Laws:We have something to prove, right, and so we lose our way. Sometimes we get so focused on I'm going to prove a point that we become this hard person sitting in a ballroom or hard person I'm going to prove my that. We go here and proving our point to our partner and forgetting that they're even like who's this? They don't even know who we are. So I say all that to say. My legacy is that I've, I'm teaching my children, my grandchildren and everybody that falls behind how to love, how to put each other first. If you're able, and and go for us. If you're able to do that, what will work?
Deshay Caines:everything else out it's not that you're not going to have bumps along the way, because I've had many bumps.
Tina Laws:However, you want to be able to appreciate those bumps. You want to be able to sit back and say okay, lord, and I understand why it was painful, why did you have me? Good, but this is why. So my legacy would always be that I've left a legacy for my children to know family first, love first, put go for us and everything else will come behind it. That's supposed to be behind it oh, I love that well.
Deshay Caines:Thank you, tina, so much for spending some time with me today. I really do appreciate it. Now, anyone who's watching the podcast in this episode right now they're listening. What is the best way to get in contact with you should they want to avail of your services?
Tina Laws:I'm on LinkedIn or you can just look me up at my website. You can either get me at tinalawesconsultantcom or you can get me at thelovecompass.
Deshay Caines:L-U-V compassnet.
Tina Laws:Or you can call me at 4415388857. Email tinalawesconsultant at gmailcom or thelovecompasscoach at gmailcom.
Deshay Caines:Like I'm just everywhere on social media, I'm I don't, we'll tag you in this when it goes up.
Tina Laws:Yes, absolutely so you know, I'm here, I'm here, I'm here, I'm being between here and london. My grandchildren in london, my daughter and I also have clients in london. Okay, speaking engagement, so I'm just doing so. If they want me, they better catch me quick. Yes, there you go, there we go.
Deshay Caines:We love to hear it. Well, thank you again.
Tina Laws:Thank you for having me appreciate you being here today absolutely all right, guys.
Deshay Caines:We just had an amazing episode with Tina Laws, who dropped some amazing gems for us. Whether you're in the beginning part of your journey as a couple or as a woman in leadership and you're, or you're a bit more senior in that, we've got some amazing advice from her today on how to navigate through these things in our relationships, but also in our careers as well. She dropped some gems for us around her her own personal struggles and the things that she has gone through and how she's overcome them as well. So, guys, head over to the website hustleheartpodcastcom. Make sure you can read the blog that will be up, will be up, about Ms Tina Laws, and then you can also find some additional information about how to get in contact with her should you wish to avail of her services. While she's available, honey, because she is booked and busy. All right, as always. Thank you for spending no-transcript.
