Hustle Her
Hustle Her
Hustle Her - Michelle
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What happens when you step away from a successful career to rediscover your authentic self? Michelle Seymour-Smith's story offers a masterclass in intentional career transformation.
Growing up in Spanish Point, Bermuda as a shy middle child, Michelle found her professional calling early – at just 13, she was helping with general ledger entries at an insurance company. This early exposure to accounting set her on a path that would lead to a 16-year career culminating as CFO. But when burnout hit, Michelle made the brave decision to walk away.
"I literally just turned to my husband and said 'I'm done,'" Michelle recalls. His simple acceptance opened the door to what she calls her "year of yes" – exploring everything from Reiki certification to daily yoga practice. Most significantly, she challenged herself to have 200 meaningful conversations, a practice that organically led to board opportunities and a whole new career chapter.
Michelle's perspective on leadership resonates deeply: "Leadership is respect for people." Drawing from mentors who valued her contributions from a young age, she emphasizes the importance of helping employees understand their role in the company's mission while giving them agency in how they accomplish their work. For women specifically, she advocates authenticity about the challenges of balancing career and family responsibilities.
What makes Michelle's journey particularly compelling is her recognition that "those things that make you different are your superpower." Whether feeling like an outsider culturally (with a Bermudian father and Portuguese mother), being the only woman in executive meetings, or transitioning careers when others might have stayed the course, Michelle found strength in her unique perspective.
At the heart of Michelle's story are two principles she hopes to be remembered for: knowing your own value and recognizing your agency to make choices. "When you hit that stage of empowerment, when you really truly realize what you're capable of, nothing can stop you," she shares. "It's this feeling of being unleashed."
Ready to discover your own value and unleash your potential? Michelle's journey might be exactly the inspiration you need.
I'm a hustler baby woman, determined to succeed and looking for a bit of motivation, a bit of tough love and some actionable takeaways to be the best. You, girl. You are in the right place. Hey guys, and welcome back to Hustle Hard Podcast.
Speaker 1As always, thank you for spending some time with me today. I'm super grateful that you decided to join us. Make sure you head over to the website deshaykeenscom to check out all the content that we have all of our previous episodes as well as this current episode. Make sure you like and subscribe on YouTube. Big shout out to our season sponsors, 59 Front, as well as Brown Company and our newest sponsors, scudamark. So my guest for today is someone that I just recently met, but I was awe-inspired by her conversation at the conference that we were at. She was so thoughtful in the way that she entered the conversation, as well as very inspiring with the words that she was saying to us. She gave us a very holistic approach to the topic and I thought to myself she's got to be on the podcast. So please join me in welcoming the amazing Michelle Seymour-Smith.
Speaker 2Thanks, tashae, thanks for having me, no problem.
Speaker 1How are you doing today? I'm good, thanks, excited to be here. I'm excited, all right. So we'll jump in with some quick questions and then we'll go from there. All right, yeah, ready, all right. What's always on your nightstand?
Speaker 2Books, lots and lots of books that I can't always get to. I know that Exactly Too many To digital.
Speaker 1I know, I like the feel of a book, though.
Speaker 2Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 1Yeah, I'm big on that. All right, tea or coffee to start the day. Always, coffee, always coffee. I know I'm trying the matcha thing, but I still need my coffee, coffee, all right. What was your favorite book as a child?
Speaker 2Oh, I loved the Little House on the Prairie. I read all of them and all of them, and then, when my daughter was around the age, I bought the set for her and she's like these are the worst books I've ever read. Why would you give these?
Speaker 1to me, were you heartbroken I was.
Speaker 2I love them.
Speaker 1I love them. Okay, what's your go-to way to relax after a long day?
Speaker 2Meditate. I probably don't do it as much as I should, but I'm I. During pandemic I got back into it. And I would say, when I'm really stressed, um, at the end of the day, that's probably the best thing If it's first thing in the morning. Actually, a walk outside is always kind of my preferred way to kind of calm down.
Speaker 1Okay, and what? I guess, who inspires you right now?
Speaker 2Who inspires you right now? I would actually say my kids. Right now. My kids are right at that age. My daughter's about to graduate, my son is 11, going on 17. And there's an element of the relationship is shifting and I'm really amazed with these people they're growing into. So I would say they're really inspiring me. I did a talk at BHS and while my daughter's not a student there, her friends are and she was like don't embarrass me. So it's really living up to like their standards.
Speaker 1That's impressive. Yeah, it sure is. I'm sure you'd agree. All right, what's a phrase you currently live by. I'm drawing a blank it's okay, yeah, all right. Well, if you think about it, well, let me know, we'll go from there. What's one word your friends would use to describe you?
Speaker 2um generous. I think, generous with time, generous, generous with advice, generous.
Speaker 1Good, okay, what's a hidden talent or surprising fact that no one knows I'm a Reiki practitioner. Reiki, yeah, really.
Speaker 2Yeah, okay, I have questions, I have questions, but we'll get back to that.
Speaker 1Okay, what's one place you've always wanted to visit, but you haven't yet? New Zealand, okay, on the list, for sure.
Speaker 2Hmm, okay, on the list for sure. And what's one thing you wish more people knew about you? I think there's a really soft and creative side to me.
Speaker 2I think oftentimes people outside my personal life people know me corporate wise and I have this very technical background as a CFO CTO you know, in the insurance world and I think I'm in my heart, I'm actually an artist and I'm very creative and just it's kind of the antithesis of the accountant, which is hard facts, like I really like to paint, I like to meditate, I do energy healing, so there's this very soft spiritual side to me that I think, unless you're in my inner circle, you probably don't know.
Speaker 1Okay, that's good. All right, I'm definitely intrigued. And finally, because we're so close to cut match, what's your cut match? Team St George's? All right, interview over, we're done. We're done, it's okay. I'll give you a bye right now, and we know Somerset will keep the cups, so that's okay, they probably will. I'll still cheer for St George's now. It's hard being a St George's fan these days.
Speaker 2It is All right.
Speaker 1So take me back to young Michelle growing up in Spanish Point with your family.
Speaker 2So I was the middle child.
Speaker 1And.
Speaker 2I have classic middle child syndrome. I'm the negotiator, the peacemaker.
Speaker 2My sister older sister was the boss, my younger- sister was our younger brother sorry was the rebel, and I was home brand fit right into those classic yeah, and I was painfully shy.
Speaker 2There's, you know, we had a big, noisy house and just I was the kid who would always take a book and kind of crawl into like this little nook where no one could find me in and stay away. But what was lovely growing up in Spanish Point was all the kids we went to school with. All our friends our age all lived in Spanish Point, just happened to be that way, and from our house was like the road furthest from the point. Our house was like the road furthest from the point, so it was kind of this invisible line that from our road towards the end of Spanish Point we literally had free reign of the neighborhood. And you know, you could just leave your house, you'd just go running, you'd be like tell your parents I'll be back in time for dinner and you just went off and the beach was down at the end. So it was pretty magical. I think about how my kids are raised now and everything is a play date or you have to schedule it's so structured.
Speaker 2We had the complete opposite. It was just like come home, do your homework and just go run barefoot until it got dark.
Speaker 1When streetlights came on, you knew you had to go home. That was like a real thing. I didn't have the streetlights conversation, but we definitely played outside when I was little, but yeah being able to just roam freely. You just don't see kids doing that anymore.
Speaker 2Yeah, and we knew all the people down the point. So it was like telephone tags. So if my mom couldn't find one of us she'd call the next neighbor along they'd call the next one. Eventually he'd come home.
Speaker 1So yeah, it was great, yeah, so, speaking of your mom, you mentioned to me that one of the greatest privileges you've had in life was having the parents that you've had. Like, what values or lessons do you carry with you from your parents?
Speaker 2so my parents, um, my dad was Bermuda, my mom is Portuguese from the Azores and they neither of them. They grew up fairly poor and they didn't really have opportunity. Um, my dad started work at 12. In those days in Bermuda, you could finish school right after, I guess right before middle school whatever what we call middle school now, yeah, and my mom in the Azores.
Speaker 2You only started school at seven, so she only went to school from seven to 12. And so they were really hardworking and they really valued education and they were determined that we were going to have the best education and all the opportunity that they didn't. So that's why I always say it's my greatest privilege I had my parents, because they they pushed us and they sacrificed so that we could have a good education.
Speaker 1And.
Speaker 2I always say everything I have is because my parents gave that to me yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1My grandmother was is Jamaican Sorry she is here with us present and so it's a very similar dynamic, I think, for my, my father and his siblings as well. But you said your mom moved to, uh, bermuda from the Azores. Like what was that? Like that dynamic like it in your household culturally? Um, being having a mom from the Azores and growing up in Bermuda, I think?
Speaker 2you don't really know anything else um, but I will say I always felt like I wasn't Portuguese enough and I wasn't Bermudian enough, I didn't speak Portuguese. My mom didn't speak it to us at the time when she came. Her brothers were ridiculed for speaking Portuguese, so she didn't speak it to us and my dad didn't speak it, but we had all the food, so like I, can make all the Portuguese goodies.
Speaker 1So I'm coming over Between me, my sister, my brother and I, so like I can make all the Portuguese goodies. It's not.
Speaker 2I can't make over between me my sister, my brother and I like I think we could all call and my niece is like making this amazing Portuguese goodies now so but I grew up with the food.
Speaker 2Um, so culturally, you know, it was very strict. We were Catholic and you know guilt is a real, real thing the Portuguese Catholic community. So I grew up with that. But at the same time and my mom was super strict Actually my son asked me recently like, oh you know, can I tell granny this? I'm like I don't think granny's gonna like that. I'm like granny was really strict with me. He goes well, did you just rebel? And I'm like, oh no, I didn't. So I was really that diligent daughter, I did what was expected to me, even to in my career. You know, in those days it was tourism and accounting, and she wanted me to have good education, good jobs. I'm like I'll be an accountant and go do those things.
Speaker 1Yeah, and what do you think? Do you think it's different now in terms of, like, the acceptance of the Portuguese culture in Bermuda? And speaking Portuguese like more than when your mom or you were little with your mom, definitely. And.
Speaker 2I would like to think that generally, society has become more accepting all around. There's always work to be done, but I would say I'll give you a story my mom so we all have our Portuguese passports and my mom said I can't believe there came a day where this would be of value, Because in my day everybody was trying to hide the fact that they were Portuguese. So I think, collectively, I hope that people are more accepting of Portuguese, of interracial relationships and people of all kind of backgrounds and sexual preference and everything. So it's definitely more open than when I was growing up and hopefully it'll keep going that way. Yeah, absolutely, preference in everything. So it's definitely more open than when I was growing up and hopefully it'll keep going that way.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely so. You mentioned your mom saying being an accountant or different things like that, and when we were chatting you told me that you knew you wanted to be an accountant at 13. So tell me a bit of what that experience was like figuring out that you wanted to be an accountant at 13.
Speaker 2So these things only happen in Bermuda. So we were working from a young age and my mom worked at Trimmingham, so I was the Easter bunny. I folded the accounts and I got an opportunity through a family friend to go to what was then Johnson Higgins and is now Marsh, to go into the office and help her with filing, and that sounded like a lot more fun than being the Easter bunny or spraying perfume on people, which were all the things I had to do, and so, at like 13 or 14, I was in this big corporate office.
Speaker 2I was taking checks up to the CEO Can you imagine Like not just the CEO but taking checks.
Speaker 2And I remember very distinctly I was working during one of my school breaks and the department that had me working was next to the accounts payable department. And they were like, well, can you help us do general ledger entries? And of course I didn't know what that was. And this was at 13, at 13, yeah, 13 or 14. And so they gave me the entries to put in the general ledger. And then you know that was one of my first exposures to a computer where doing data input in a computer.
Speaker 2How big were those computers? No-transcript so. But I had a full circle moment because when I was hired to be the controller at Arch, this lovely lady was sitting at reception. I was like, oh hi, I'm, you know, I'm here, I'm starting my first day, and this lady's like I know you, you are that little girl who used to come around with the checks, and she was the somebody who used to run the IT Shout out to. Carmelita Lambert.
Speaker 1God bless her I love her so much.
Speaker 2But you know, here I was in my first big job, you know, kind of feeling proud of yourself, and she reminded me oh, you're just that little girl who don't forget where you're from.
Speaker 1Yeah, so, but she was always lovely. So, yeah, that's amazing, but that's a cool part about Bermuda. That is such a Bermuda story, such a Bermuda story like you're not going to hear that in many other places. Like you know, I remember you used to pass around the time like you know what I mean, but I think that's the part of us too, like that's really a cultural Bermuda thing, like I know who your people are. Yeah absolutely that small island vibes, but I love that about it.
Speaker 2No matter where you are, I always say you're one degree of separation away from someone and it keeps you humble because your feet are firmly grounded on the earth, so you can't get into that ego space, because we all know who you are and where you came from and you're no different than anyone else, absolutely.
Speaker 1No, I totally get it. So you say you were shy, but I feel like you don't seem very shy to me now, like what changed, what happened?
Speaker 2I don't know, but my best friend from childhood always says Michelle didn't speak forever and then when she started, she never shut up. And, funny enough, I've been doing a lot more public speaking these days and I really enjoy it, so I think part of it is this is where age is always a good thing. I think it's growing into your own and knowing your message. Um, I would say when I probably got started in my career, that was probably the shift for me when I started working at Arthur Anderson.
Speaker 2And there was a real confidence um circuit where I I just I knew I was smart and I was working hard and I liked the work I was doing, I liked the people I was working with and you kind of get that feedback loop that you're doing well and it propels you and kind of the switch went at some point probably my early 20s where I suddenly became very career focused and very kind of ambitious and confident in myself and in that level. So and it's just fed it. And now I think at this stage of my life, there's an element of there's so much rhetoric in the world that I think we actually owe it to use our voices for good. So, like your podcast, and I think you have to, you have to counter it, you have to use your voice to counter it.
Speaker 1Yeah, a thousand percent, I think. Sometimes I had someone on the podcast before Zanika, ironically, is also an accountant and she naturally is she self-proclaimed a shyer person and a bit of an introvert and she said on the podcast she was talking about you know, you have to figure out what's better staying quiet or actually speaking up in the moment and it's almost pretty much identical to what you're saying there, and so it's interesting how those personalities are similar with the different careers that people take.
Speaker 2Well, the energy person in me would say like you have to counter energy with what you have, and whether that's your voice, whether it's your energy, whether it's in the immediate community in front of you, or whatever your reach is, I think you have to use that for the influence you want to see in the world. Yeah, absolutely.
CFO Career and Finding Value
Speaker 1So you were a CFO for 13 years at your previous company and what would you say? That was that that experience was like and how it pretty much shaped you to kind of what you're doing now.
Speaker 2So it's the CFO. I kind of grew into that role and the great thing was I had the opportunity to come into the company at startup, so we really built it together and, if anything, it really proved to me that I think, you know, when I look back at the company, what really made it so successful in those early days was just the group of people. I think that's where the sum of the parts is. The whole is greater than the sum of any parts. We had the synergy and we just had this really dynamic environment and I think, if anything, it showed me. You know, through my journey there, I think I learned my own value. I think I. You know there's, as you go through life, like 13, I was there ultimately for 16 years and you know, like anything, there's this initial rush where you're like, okay, I'm doing well, I'm doing well. Then you kind of hit a point where life is you know for me.
Speaker 2I had my family, so you're not as focused on your career, more at home. And then you do also hit a point of where you have doubts and you know I hit a place where I felt like you know, I was the only woman in the room, the only accountant in the room, the only keep going and I had an experience that kind of showed me those things that make you different are your superpower, and so that's really shaped kind of the next chapter for me, which is really owning your value.
Speaker 2And I think one of the most important things, I think one of my special talents is I see value where others don't. So it's how can I use that to help propel growth? If you're a company, if you're an individual, how to see your own value and your own agency to make a change or the strategic shift in whatever you're trying to do. So I think that experience really has defined like okay, this is a different chapter that I want and how do I want it to look and how do I be intentional about it.
Speaker 1Absolutely so. Would you say that that is kind of what propelled you into this new kind of space you're in as an executive Sorry, as a non-executive director as well as like a strategic advisor? Like was that planned or were you pretty strategic about that? Like, walk me through those that step.
Speaker 2Yeah, for strategic advisor. I was very unstrategic about it. So I had hit a point. In my last two years I was in the chief transformation role, which was all about respect for people, leadership, operational efficiency, but I was traveling every week and I had a young family still and we kind of hit an inflection point where I needed to make a decision Did I want to go the operations route or the finance route? And I literally just had this moment where I was like neither, like. I remember very clearly this kind of moment of I'm done, I need a break. And I think it was a combination of burnout. I think I just felt frayed, like I was looking at the options at the company and I didn't find either of them appealing, find either of them appealing. And when I looked in my home life I could see I really had been neglecting it and health-wise I wasn't in a good place. And I literally just turned to my husband and just said I'm done.
Speaker 2And he was like okay, and so I left at the end of 2019 thinking okay, I'll take a break and probably go back somehow. And then COVID happened and during COVID my sister went through breast cancer chemotherapy. During COVID and I had to homeschool my young son, who had ADHD, which was really not fun. My daughter struggled with anxiety and it really shifted my priorities and I just realized I didn't want to go back into that environment because I wanted a life where I was more involved with my kids. So I did not know what I wanted to do, so I did what I called a year of yes, work, stuff that came my way and there were opportunities to go back into industry and I said yes to everything else. That's how the Reiki came up. I went on a painting retreat it was virtual because it was COVID. Yeah, I took up archery. I took up a challenge to yoga.
Speaker 2Yeah, I did a challenge to yoga every day, which I did for two years so I just kind of explored.
Speaker 2I think I was so burned out and so focused on work before I'd forgotten what made me happy. And in that year of yes, someone challenged me to have 200 meaningful conversations. And this is the advice I give anyone who's looking on how to change careers, how to break into directorships Go meet 200 people. And so it's like networking at a completely different level and because you have a clear purpose in what you're trying to understand. And for me that was. I'm in a period of transition. I don't know what to do. Tell me about a transition in your life.
Speaker 2It was just how do I learn from these people? I think you know, at some point my name just kind of got out there and that's actually how the boards found me, got it, so I think I was really lucky in that I kind of I almost fell into it. But then, once I started to get the calls you know the way with boards it's a very strange interviewing process. They have lots of meetings and then you never hear from them again. So it took a few before I found one that was like the right fit. And one of the things I learned as well is, in the beginning you're almost like, yes, okay, I'll do it. And they didn't work out, and that was a great thing. And I realized I'm like, okay, I have to show up the way I want to be with what's important to me and when I feel like I truly was confident in that space, in the kind of interview process, that was the first board and then, literally the day that board was announced, I got a call for another board, so I was able to start building a portfolio.
200 Conversations and Career Transition
Speaker 2And then, you know, in all of that there's this element of, well, if you could do anything for free, what would you do? And for me, that's always been mentoring people, and I met a lot of people who are at a crossroads in their career and they're stuck. And I'm a big believer in you have agency of choice. If you feel stuck in that job, you can choose to stay in the job or you can choose to look at other options. So I do a lot of work around. How do I help someone look at all of the options that they have available and choose something different if they're not where they were, or if where they are is like, ok, I have to, I want to choose this for these reasons, okay, well, how do we make it more, more of a full life for you?
Speaker 1yeah, so no, I I've. That's pretty much, as we discussed before, what I do pretty often, but in-house at my company, and it actually is really powerful to see someone go from being in that stuck place to in the place after that, like whatever that kind of looks like for them. I think that's actually probably the most rewarding part of that process.
Speaker 2I absolutely agree. When someone realizes what they're capable of or what their own value is, like I think that that was something I struggled with. So when I see someone like click, like wait a minute, this is what I bring to the table, and oh, I can do all these things, suddenly they're unleashed. I think that's the best feeling in the world, absolutely.
Speaker 1So I mean quick pivot, tell me a bit about these 200 conversations Like who did you decide who to choose to meet? Or like were you just randomly like hey, that person looks interesting, I want to meet them.
Speaker 2Well, it started. The person who challenged me said I'm going to introduce you to the first two and then when you have Two out of 200?
Speaker 1Tell them there's any better ratio than that. Start with the first two.
Speaker 2And then she said, when you meet with those two, ask them to introduce someone else. So that's how it started. And then, because it was COVID, everybody was happy to have a 30-minute Zoom call. And because it's Zoom, you know it's going to be 30 minutes. That was just a break between the constant meetings that everybody was having at the time.
Speaker 2And I met people like around the world, and then I started applying as Bermuda began to open up. I think I just I think that's really all it is. It's being open to meeting new people, much like how we met right, Like I think there's. You were open to approaching me and I was opening to the conversation and often that's really the shift it takes. I would have said when I was in my corporate life, you know, I really was going through life with blinders on in terms of like this work is so important. This is what you know. It's very insular to the company, Whereas now I'm very much more open and my daughter tells me like I'm the world's greatest networker, but I don't consider it networking, as much as I love making new connections with people.
Speaker 1But I think that's that's really what it is. That's networking, like I mean, and a lot of people and I hate the phrase that you either have it or you don't but being good at networking is a true gift, like some people really just are not good at it. You know what I mean. Being able to work a room and meet people and be pretty unapologetic about going up to someone and introducing yourself is that is something you can teach someone to do. But someone who's naturally good at it far excels in that scenario than anything. That's one thing.
Speaker 2I always am like wow, I wish everyone could do that, because they not everyone can I actually think everyone can get to a place that they can, and I think it's keep it simple have one question, have one question for somebody, because at the end of the day, what I've learned is nobody wants to be like have one question and have it be a thoughtful question, like don't lead with what do you do? You know, if you're at an event, then use something from the event to anchor that question, or in the 200 questions for me. I was in a period of transition, so that was my anchor point. So, yeah, you don't need to carry on a conversation for two hours, so 15 to 20 minutes like one question can carry a conversation. Yeah, um, yeah, you don't need to carry on a conversation for two hours, so 15 to 20 minutes, like one question can carry a conversation.
Speaker 1Yeah, definitely, and you're absolutely correct. People as much people like oh, I don't like to talk about myself, it's actually the easiest subject to talk about when you really think about it, cause nobody knows you better than you, right? So I mean you're, you're an obviously reading your bio and looking, looking you up, like you're often, very often regarded to as someone who is a pioneer in the industry, right, in terms of insurance, just for everyone else's knowledge, like what would be your definition of leadership, and then how has that evolved over time? Leadership?
Speaker 2is respect for people. So I would say so. I think, having started my career so young, I got to see a lot of leaders.
Speaker 2I saw a lot of examples and when I look back at the people who I grew the most under, I learned under the best they really and someone who comes to mind specifically Scott Hunter, who ran Arthur Anderson. And so here was someone who was a partner in a world, one of the top audit firms in the world, but most of his staff were under 25. And as a 25-year-old I started there when I was 17. But I always felt respected and seen and that there was opportunity for me, and Scott never made us feel like we were young or immature or any of those things which probably were, because we worked hard and we played hard too, yeah, but that's important, good yeah.
Speaker 2Especially at that age.
Leadership and Women's Representation
Speaker 2But yeah, so I and how it changed over time was when I was in the chief transformation officer role, I had the chance to mentor with somebody who had gone to Japan and studied under Toyota and some of the founders of lean thinking in Toyota, the Toyota production system Just in time, it kind of goes under different names and it really honed that to some very simple tenets and the first is respect for people, and then the other one is always trust the expert, and the first is respect for people and then the other one is always trust the expert, and the expert is the person doing the job. Yeah, so what I always used to say is I think for anybody working in any position, you need to know where the company is going, you need to know your role in where the company is going and you have to have some say over how you get to do that role.
Speaker 2I think if, as a leader, you can put that in your culture, I and you have to have some say over how you get to do that role. I think if, as a leader, you can put that in your culture, I think you're going to have really happy employees and people who are fulfilled in what they do Absolutely.
Speaker 1No, I mean, you're spot on. I stand on my soapbox all the time about culture and leaders and how they really are the change and what you see they direct really are the change and what you see they direct, what that looks like, and I wish most leaders thought about leadership from that viewpoint, as opposed to the traditional way of how people think leadership should be. I think that that's absolutely key in everything that we do all the time.
Speaker 2And I think that was the differentiator for me when I was interviewing for the boards. You know, in the first couple of boards you feel like you have to be that technical expert. You need to know what's going on in the insurance market. You know that very technical and when I realized I'm like I don't really want to talk about those things, I can talk about those things.
Speaker 2I can talk about the financial statements, but what I'm really interested in is how are you building a foundation for growth? What kind of company do you want? What do you want beyond the bottom line? Lots of companies, you know. There were lots of interviews that kind of went sideways when I started asking those questions because they were like we're just in, take advantage of the market and get out with an ROE, whereas the companies I've always gravitated to is there is a mission greater than just the bottom line.
Speaker 1Yeah, but those are also the companies that really invest in their people. Yeah, absolutely, business imperatives. We have things, numbers, that need to be hit. I think that's all important, but people who understand that their people are the most important and that's how you're going to get the best. Them producing their best. That's paramount with any organization, I agree, and those are the people I want to be in the room with. A thousand percent. I totally agree. I say that all the time.
Speaker 1But where I initially was introduced to you was at a conference that we were both at and you were speaking on this panel and I think it was about leadership, and one of the gentlemen just everyone's knowledge which I was the only woman on the panel and there were other men on the panel and one of the gentlemen essentially said she was saying, making a point around, men in leadership need supportive wives at home. But he was making a very blanket statement about leadership and the assumption was that it was all men, one with you sitting next to him. But then you very eloquently were like and husbands too, and like, every woman in the room was like yeah, you know what I mean, because the narrative has definitely shifted around what leadership looks like, but can we talk a moment about what that representation looks like for women today in terms of leadership?
Speaker 2You have to ask me that question more specifically, sorry.
Speaker 1No, it's fine. So what does it mean in terms of representation for women in leadership? Today we have some women in leadership. Sometimes we don't, but that narrative, that traditional narrative of men in leadership, supportive wives at home and everyone having like that thought process of that's what that traditional leader looks like. How do we kind of shape that a bit different? Because there are husbands at home too, two wives who have huge jobs Many of them have been on the podcast how do we shift?
Speaker 2that Well, I love Christy Hunter. Our Scott always says you can't be what you can't see, and so I think the reality is you just need to see it. And the one thing I want to say in the moment I said husbands, but you know, partners come in all shapes and sizes, and sometimes those partners are. You know like can be a grandparent or whatever.
Speaker 2So I think seeing all the combinations, first of all, seeing other people in leadership other than just white men. There's lots of really capable people and giving people opportunity, having different ways of showing up and leader. And one of the things is there's always so much focus on corporate leadership and that's always been my focus but leaders come in all different areas of life. So what I've learned from my kids is, like the sports coach is just as important a leader as, say, my boss, like they have a lot of influence, but I think women need to make it okay. It's just if we focus on women specifically, because that's the area I know best. I think when you see women in leadership, women with children in leadership, women who are divorced or single or with a spouse, you know you have to see all iterations.
Speaker 2And I think what I've always connected with people over is I'm very real about it I remember when I first started traveling to New York, I was working with a group of New York women lawyers and this was like the most hardcore group of intimidating women you can imagine and we bonded over our children and the guilt we had between really loving our careers but losing the time with our families and trying that balance. And one of them made the comment of I was the first leader she'd seen in that position and then I was the first woman leader she'd met. That was real about the challenges of being a woman in business and I don't really know how to show up any other way, but how I am. So I think when women make it okay to say like, oh, I've got my kid's got a recital and I'm going to leave for it, or there's an assembly, or my kid's sick, I'm going to be the one to go home. I'm not going to call the partner and tell them to do it.
Speaker 2If you can. I think it makes it okay for everyone else to say okay, I can exist in that position with the life I have.
Speaker 1Absolutely, and whatever your support looks like, that's up to you, like you know what I mean, and whatever you need to do to make everything work for you. I think that that's totally fine and it works for everyone, whatever you choose to do that is.
Speaker 2But the key is, you need the support, you know it truly does take a village, and I think that's the difference is you need the partner behind you because it's really hard. Especially the higher up you go in at least in corporate corporate, you know living the higher you go, just the environment can be so political, can be toxic. You feel very alone because you don't have peers, especially as a woman at a very high level in corporate Bermuda or corporate America, whatever. But I felt very alone. My peers were all men. They all had the wives with the nannies and the housekeepers and God bless my husband. I had him and I had my parents, but I didn't have the army that they did yeah. So I think the more that you have that support behind you and you know who's got your back, you know who your trusted people are, even outside of the office, that you can kind of be yourself with and take your problems to, I think that's really important.
Speaker 1Yeah, absolutely. What's one thing about your husband that people might not know, but it makes a huge difference in, or had made a huge difference in, your ability to lead and, you know, rise in your own career.
Speaker 2So I think people who know my husband my husband is what you see is what you get, and he's an iron man so he's very disciplined and very focused. So I think people who know him know those things about him that really sums it up, and I think you know he's not ego driven and he was always really supportive. So maybe what people don't know is he's a really good cook. So he used to do all the cooking before we shifted and now I primarily do the cooking, unfortunately for him.
Speaker 2But we shifted and now I primarily do the cooking, unfortunately for him but fortunate for me. But yeah, he just he's steadfast and he's you know whether it's doing 50 miles on the bike or Michelle's off to New York again. He was always very steadfast but I'm pretty sure anyone who knows my husband knows that about him, without a doubt.
Speaker 1Yeah, and I also I mean from obviously knowing you this short period of time he also seems incredibly supportive. Like not very many people will be like you're done and be like okay, cool, let's figure it out. Like, how has that support been for you?
Intentional Living and Final Thoughts
Speaker 2Um, the fact that I could step out and there wasn't a discussion on finances, there wasn't a discussion on what will we do, there wasn't a discussion of what next. He just was accepting. There's a level of acceptance that is pretty special actually, but the fact that I'm like this is how I feel about something as important as my career, and he was just like yep, that's okay. It shows that he knows, I know what's best for me and he respects me. So I think when you have that support, it opens up possibility, because clearly, if I didn't have it, I wouldn't have been able to just step out and I wouldn't be where I am today, absolutely.
Speaker 1Yeah.
Speaker 2Yeah, it's pretty.
Speaker 1He probably knew you needed the break too.
Speaker 2Well, sometimes I joke. I'm like I think it was a testament to how frayed life was that he was like, oh, thank God, I'm done with this. Exactly so, but that also wasn't what he led with, which is also nice.
Speaker 1Yeah, he's a pretty smart guy.
Speaker 2I guess I'll keep him around some longer. No, it's funny so.
Speaker 1No, it's funny. So how are you being really intentional about this new phase in life?
Speaker 2Yeah. So I think it started with the boards kind of being intentional of. This is what I want to talk to the CEOs and the equity backing these ventures about, and it was more than just what kind of underwriting do you want to do, what type of shop do you want to do? And every board I joined, I feel like there's a purpose to it somewhere and I think it's a really amazing group of people that I have worked with. So that was the first thing. So, to the extent that the work I was doing, I feel like it's aligned with what I do. And then, even in this next chapter, I'm doing a lot more speaking and at some point I'll sit down and do a bit more writing because, I quite like to do that and working more with individuals.
Speaker 2I think it's intentional from the point of view again of where I feel like there's an energy in the world that's very counter to what we've all known, and for every action there's an equal and opposite reaction so if I want to be that opposite reaction, I have to put something into it, and so I do accept that I'm taking more speaking engagements.
Speaker 2I'm putting myself out there on the stage in a way I never did before. She described herself in three concentric circles and she said this is me and these are my values and what I believe in, and these are the people I surround myself with, whether they're family by choice or family by blood. And then this is the work that I do, and it was the first time I'd seen this work-life integration, like everything she did and the people she surrounded herself with are so aligned with who she was, and so those are leading principles for me is when I get a call or an opportunity, or when I'm choosing not to do something, it's like okay, is this in alignment with who I am, what I believe in, what my priorities are and how I want to show up. So I'm much more conscious about that and thinking about it in what I do. And even the times you're like I don't feel like doing it, it's like is that really in alignment?
Speaker 2You know, get your butt out there.
Speaker 1Yeah, exactly, michelle, I have like want to keep talking to you, but we're running out of time and that's okay too. We can always do a part two if we need to. But how I wrap up here with everyone on the podcast is when you know with everyone on the podcast is when you know when someone says your name years from now and they're like, hey, you know, michelle Seymour Smith, what do you want to be remembered for in those moments when you're no longer around and obviously, touch wood, it'll be a very long time from now and you're enjoying all this new phase of life that you're in. But what do you want to be remembered for?
Speaker 2I think there's two principles that are really important to me, and one is knowing your own value, and then the other is having your own agency and having control and choice over what it is you're doing. And so I tell my kids all the time that anything is possible, which is the Iron man slogan. But I'm like, anything's possible if you want it and you go for it. If you want it and you go for it, and I hope that, whether it's my kids, or whether it's someone I worked with or my closest friends, I hope they always feel like I felt like I could do anything with.
Speaker 1Michelle.
Speaker 2Michelle believed in me and Michelle saw what I, the value I bring, and they see their own value bring and they really feel empowered. Because I think when you hit that stage of empowerment, when you really truly realize what you're capable of, like nothing can stop you and it's this feeling of being unleashed and I hope that's the feeling I leave people with. I love that. It's amazing, thank you so much for being with us today.
Speaker 1I really do appreciate it. I think we got some amazing gems here today. Like I'm like, my brain is processing on what we're gonna put out okay, that's good I I love it.
Speaker 2I'm super intrigued there are a couple like oh, I bubble that one, but that's okay, none of it. We would never know which one it was. You're amazing so much. Oh, you really are. No, like I'm glad you're doing this. So people's like, people's stories need to be told. So thank you for having me. Absolutely, I appreciate it all.
Speaker 1So thank you for having me. Absolutely. I appreciate it. All right, guys, thank you for joining us today. Had the amazing Michelle Seymour-Smith on the podcast with us today. If you guys want to learn any more about her, make sure you check out her LinkedIn page and you can ping her on there.
Speaker 2You can be her 200th and 10th person she may be, or whatever number.
Speaker 1She's on now and I hope you got something valuable and meaningful from this conversation. As always, thank you to our sponsors, 59 Front Brown Company and Scudamar, and, you know, as always, thank you for spending time with me today on Hustle Heart Podcast you.
