Books. A place of wonder. But also a place of expanding your mind. Creating space for diversity. And a place for exploration. Join us this week as Children's Librarian Hannah Bunn tells us all about her journey of loving books!
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Welcome to Here We Are. The podcast where we celebrate the beauty of being a nerd by learning about nerdy things from fellow nerds. I'm your host Joy Bork. Sometimes there are humans in the world that make a lifelong impression. Today's guest is one of those for me. Hannah was my next door neighbor, my freshman year in college. And she brought warmth and love and kindness to me in ways I had never experienced before. I'm so grateful for how she believed in me. She created safe places for me to exist and she helped me curate wonder. So without further ado here's my friend Hannah to tell us all about her love of books
Hannah Bunn:hi, I'm Hannah Bunn. I am a cat mom, and a book lover, and a children's librarian.
Joy Bork:Yeah, you are. How did we meet?
Hannah Bunn:We met in college. You were my next door neighbor.
Joy Bork:Uhhuh.
Hannah Bunn:And we were very different and also very alike. I
Joy Bork:Yeah, it
Hannah Bunn:think we balanced each other pretty well.
Joy Bork:We sure did. You were the first one that realized that the state of my surroundings equals the state of my inside. I would come back some days after class and you'd be like, how are you doing what is wrong? You didn't make your bed today. And I'd be like, oh my gosh, how did you know my life was falling apart? So good job.
Hannah Bunn:Thank you.
Joy Bork:Thanks for being my friend.
Hannah Bunn:Thanks for being my friend.
Joy Bork:What do you wanna nerd out about today?
Hannah Bunn:Books and reading
Joy Bork:Oh, my gosh. I'm so excited.
Hannah Bunn:Yes.
Joy Bork:Do you remember your favorite books from childhood?
Hannah Bunn:Well, I talked to my mom a little bit about it the other day.
Joy Bork:Oh, I'm so excited to hear about this.
Hannah Bunn:She had a special rocking chair that she would always, I would always sit in her lap in the rocking chair and she would read to me,
Joy Bork:Good. Tradition's good.
Hannah Bunn:yes, Goodnight Moon was a favorite when I was little,
Joy Bork:mm-hmm
Hannah Bunn:And after a little bit, I mostly liked using our bookshelf as like a clubhouse. So I would like clear off all the books on the bottom shelf and sit in the bookshelf.
Joy Bork:Right. You felt held by it. Of course.
Hannah Bunn:Yeah. And then she told me, and I didn't remember this, but probably first grade or so, we read the Laura Ingalls Wilder books together. And I was so obsessed with it that when we drove across the country one time, I found out that there was that like her house in Missouri was there and it was a museum. And I had to go through it. And my parents didn't care enough to do it. So they literally paid for me as child to go in and be by myself and they waited in the car for me.
Joy Bork:beautiful, independent soul. Well done. Okay. So that's been a crucial series for you. Just talking about like book series, what series have been pivotal for you?
Hannah Bunn:Well genre, which is not what you asked, but is what I'm answering first,
Joy Bork:great. Take it. Run with it.
Hannah Bunn:So the Laura Ingalls Wilder stuff, I think what appealed to me was the historical aspect of it.
Joy Bork:Yep.
Hannah Bunn:And probably the first book that I remember, like independently reading and being super impacted by was Number the Stars by Lois Lowry. Did you ever? that
Joy Bork:I can see the cover in my head, but I don't think I've ever read it.
Hannah Bunn:So it's a world war II historical fiction book. Um,
Joy Bork:I'm obsessed with historical fiction.
Hannah Bunn:me too. And World War II is like always my favorite time period to read about. I don't know what that says about me, but,
Joy Bork:I'm right there with you though.
Hannah Bunn:Okay. And I, that's true about other people as well, so it's not like super weird. But it always feels weird to say that like the Holocaust and World War II fascinates me. I think it's just hard to wrap your head around the fact that those things actually happened.
Joy Bork:Correct. But there's also something to like the humanization of the story.
Hannah Bunn:yes.
Joy Bork:Like taking it from, I learned about this in school as a ginormous concept that's still hard to grasp even as a ginormous concept and taking it down, like that's so much of what makes us human is being able to hold space for the story of a person or I mean, that's what connection is.
Hannah Bunn:Yeah. And having it not be facts and figures or historical dates and things like that. But you're absolutely right. So Number of the Stars is about two best friends that are like 10 or 11 in the story. And the main character Anne Marie, her best friend is Jewish and it takes place during the Nazi occupation in Denmark. And so she's trying to figure out like how to keep her friend safe, but also like it's dangerous to do that, and how their world is changing. Like I think the opening scene is, they always like race from school to home, but then there are like Nazi soldiers, like on the way. And they have to behave and try not to draw attention to themselves. And like just those little daily things about their childhood are changing because of this thing that's happening. I feel like it broadened my horizons so much and helped me to understand like a whole different perspective. And that was the first book that I was like, oh, wow. I really enjoy doing this and learning about other people this way and other cultures.
Joy Bork:yeah.
Hannah Bunn:So that was a big one for me. Yeah.
Joy Bork:Yeah. I've always experienced you as a highly empathetic person. Like you seek to understand. You're looking for like, how can I care for you as a human? So that makes sense to me, like how that experience of entering into those two best friends stories hit that for you and also helped you learn
Hannah Bunn:Well, thank you for saying that. And I feel like as a librarian and as a teacher, that's one of my biggest passions when it comes to using books with my students. There's this quote, and this theory, when it comes to children's literature, they talk about children's lit being windows, mirrors, and sliding glass doors. Have you heard this before?
Joy Bork:I love this know and tell me
Hannah Bunn:everything! Okay. So they talk about like children and this is obviously applicable to not just children, but adults as well, should be able to see themselves in books. So that's the mirror thing. And then they should be able to see and experience other people's perspectives. So that's the window piece. And then the sliding glass door is the ability to like, be fully transported by a story, like be fully immersed in that world. So like I work at a school that is predominantly white, very rural, middle America, pretty conservative. And so I work really hard to make sure that our collection at the library is really diverse. And I want my kids to see kids of all colors in stories, all religions, all family makeups. And we talk all the time about like how our differences make us special and unique, and that those differences are to be celebrated. Cuz obviously like you could spend your whole life reading books about people just like you. But that doesn't develop the empathy that you were talking about earlier. So I think that it's such a valuable tool to not only be immersed in those stories, but to come away with a better understanding of someone's life that's different than yours, their experience. Yeah.
Joy Bork:Mm-hmm. That's beautiful. I interviewed one of my friends early on and I he's talking about how, like his school librarian was a pivotal person in his life because she made space for him. She sat there, she taught him how to do crosswords. She spent time and sought out his perspective and then matched him with literature that would help him grow. And that's exactly what I'm hearing you say. So you are the magician librarian, right? That's what you're telling me? You're a wizard.
Hannah Bunn:I mean, I would love to be that obviously, you know, that's, that's my goal and seeing my kids' reactions when they're exposed to something that they haven't been before is priceless to me. We were talking about the civil rights movement this year, and I had a student of color in one of my fourth grade classes. And we were talking about how things used to be and how they are now and what things still need to change. And he said, if Rosa parks hadn't done what she did, if the civil rights movement didn't happen, I wouldn't be able to go to this school. And that was this moment for him. Or like we read a couple of different books where the main characters were on the autism spectrum. And we talked about neuro divergence and the way, the different ways that our brains work. And kids were so vulnerable in sharing. Like they were like, I have ADHD and this is how my brain works and this is hard for me. And so I have to do this to help myself learn better. And they were like, so self-aware, and so brave to share that with each other. And I feel like just reading these books and having these conversations, and like you said, like making space for each other and for there not to be like a norm. Like even just helping with the vocabulary of things. When we were talking about autism, for example, they were saying normal and it's okay, well let's change that to say typical or typically developing or whatever the case may be because there isn't a cookie cutter that we're all supposed to fit into. One of the beautiful things about literature is that it's supposed to be representative of the human race and the human experience. And so there's something for everyone.
Joy Bork:This is beautiful. Okay. I am realizing I am bumping up against a couple assumptions that I would love your clarity on. So, just hearing what you're doing, I was homeschooled. So we'll start there. That's not a surprise to anybody. Hashtag nerd
Hannah Bunn:Hey, I'm a product of the public school system and I'm definitely an nerd
Joy Bork:Also hashtag nerd. So I don't have a lot of experience of librarians. We would go to the library and we would just roam and figure out what there was to see. And I don't know, I kinda wish now listening to what you're saying, Like, gosh, if I would've had a curated experience of the library, I think that would've changed a lot for me. What does being a librarian mean to you?
Hannah Bunn:I was actually talking with a fellow librarian for one of my grad school classes and she said something that I feel like summed it up so well. She said that so many kids when they're figuring out who they are and figuring out what this whole reading thing is about, and like, is it just something I have to do for school or is it actually enjoyable? That the way that they feel about the library and the way that they feel about their librarian oftentimes equates to how they feel about reading.
Joy Bork:Oh wow!
Hannah Bunn:And so if you come into a library, and the librarian is shushing you the whole time, and the library is, dark and dusty and sterile, and you're not welcome to stay, you're not welcome to talk or share your opinions, or explore, then like that's gonna impact how you feel about reading and literacy. And so to me, being a librarian is about creating an open and warm and welcoming space. It's about helping all students feel welcome. It's about providing books that not only help them to learn things, but also things that they can just read for fun. We have reader's advisory conversations all the time. What was the last book that you read that you really liked? Are you wanting something like that again? Okay. It sounds to me like you like fantasy, have you tried this book? And that moment when they say. I just finished the book last night, and I loved it and I need someone to talk to, or when kids show up at my door in the morning and they say,"Mrs. Bunn, is the library open for hugs?" And they just come in and say"hi," and give me a hug before their day starts. That's the stuff that just makes it all worth it for me.
Joy Bork:Oh My gosh. That's amazing. Because I think in my head and I I'm just processing this out loud, I've had a pretty narrow view of what a librarian is. Like, okay, it's the Dewey decimal system. It's like keeping order. It's whatever. Like I've known that libraries can be so much more, but essentially what I'm hearing you say is you are creating like a la the ancient Greeks, the forum, you are creating a space for ideas to be heard to be bounced around and they're, they don't have to be right or wrong. They're just concepts and there's a safe space to exist and to play with that and to use new language and to find new language. That sounds like heaven, to be honest.
Hannah Bunn:Well, thanks. I mean, I always want it to be, a dynamic space and people joke about libraries being quiet and I'm like, my library is very rarely quiet. And we read and we do puzzles and we play with Legos, and we write books, and we draw, and we use Play-Doh, and we create and explore you know, and I just, I want to empower them. I want them to find books that speak to them. And I want to be part of helping them become kind, empathetic, understanding humans. Tying all of it back, I think that books play such a huge role in that, letting them see and experience things that are not familiar to them. And I mean, I've learned so much through reading books, whether it's books about immigrants or books about people whose cultures are different, books with characters whose family lives look different than, I mean, regard like whatever it is, it's stuff that you walk away from a book and you say to yourself, wow, I've never experienced that. I've never thought about it that way. And it just broadens your worldview.
Joy Bork:Wow. So many questions all at once in my head. Please tell me more about some of the pivotal book moments for you. Like where have those aha moments been? What have those been like? What did they give you that you wouldn't have had otherwise?
Hannah Bunn:You asked me at the very beginning about pivotal series and this is probably a very vanilla answer, but Harry Potter is one of my favorite series.
Joy Bork:Why.
Hannah Bunn:I actually think a huge part of it, and I think I didn't really realize this until the last couple days, just thinking about all of this, but I think I read maybe one of the books in high school. And then I was at a Christian internship, in a Christian university and it was, you know, sort of
Joy Bork:witchcraft.
Hannah Bunn:yeah. Discouraged. And so I didn't actually dive in until my very first year of teaching. And I was teaching fourth grade. It was a rough year for multiple reasons. And, I had access to a school library, you know, I could just walk down the hall and there was just this room filled with books. I didn't have to drive to the public library. I could just walk down during my planning period, check out a book. And so I started with book one and it was just an escape for me in, what was a stressful professional year. So I dove head first into the series and stayed up far too late most nights, you know, and the librarian at our school would be like, did you finish that one already? She's like, Hannah, what time did you go to bed? I'm like, you don't need to know. It's
Joy Bork:fine! We're not gonna talk about that. That's not relevant to this discussion. Give me the next one.
Hannah Bunn:Right. And part of reading I think, and I think this happens to everyone, is that throughout different seasons of life, it ebbs and flows. I loved reading as a kid. But then in high school and college you're doing so much required reading that I feel like I didn't do very much of it for fun. And so discovering the Harry Potter series in my first year of teaching it was, like, oh Yeah. this is fun. so that was, like a little bit of a reawakening for me in remembering the enjoyment that I could find in books and the way that you could be fully immersed in a story and forget about all of the things that were happening in life. And that happened again for me in 2020. We all know that was a dumpster fire of a year.
Joy Bork:sure was.
Hannah Bunn:Or the beginning of a dumpster fire of a couple of years. And so with a bunch of time on my hands, I just started devouring books again, because not only was it a way to spend my time, but it was also a way to get my mind off of all of the things that were so emotionally exhausting to be able to escape for a few hours into a book that made me laugh or made me cry, but for a fake reason, not a real reason,
Joy Bork:Right,
Hannah Bunn:Was a break and sort of a vacation from real life.
Joy Bork:Wow. Yeah. I felt that in a lot of ways, too, like the moment you said Harry Potter series, I was like, yes, absolutely. That is one of the first series as an adult that I remember kind of mourning the loss of when I finished the series.
Hannah Bunn:Yes.
Joy Bork:I was so there, I could see the whole thing in my head. It was a world unto its own. It was that beautiful escape that you're talking about. And then when it was over, I'm like, well, what do I do now?
Hannah Bunn:right.
Joy Bork:And then it feels like so much emotional investment to pick a new series,
Hannah Bunn:Yes.
Joy Bork:how? I'm just so emotionally attached.
Hannah Bunn:Well, I mean, and that happens to me often where I get in like a reading slump, especially after you read something really phenomenal and then you have really high hopes for the next book. And you're like, I just don't like you as much.
Joy Bork:I hate to break it to you. I mean, you're good. And you serve a purpose in the world and good for you, but like just no, no,
Hannah Bunn:Yeah. I also just read Harry Potter over and over again. Gilmore girls is like my comfort TV show. Harry Potter's like my comfort book series. And so like, Once a year, once every two years, I'd rewatch, I'd re-listen or reread. And it just, sounds so cheesy, but it just feels like a cup of hot chocolate, it's just
Joy Bork:With that accent. Exactly.
Hannah Bunn:It's just like it's comforting. And so it it still provides that escape. And because you go back so often, it feels not like home, but
Joy Bork:it's predictable. It's something that is present, but also not real. It's that? I don't know if, is there a good word for purgatory? It's like a separate place to go to for a hot minute. To get away from what is.
Hannah Bunn:We'll call it a vacation for your mind.
Joy Bork:There we go. Anti purgatory.
Hannah Bunn:Well, they say for those of us who have mental health struggles, that like reading the same books, watching the same TV shows, like that is a coping mechanism for anxiety, because it is predictable, what's going to happen. You're not worried about like, are they gonna kill off my favorite character? What's gonna happen next?
Joy Bork:Right,
Hannah Bunn:It's predictable and comforting. And to have that in a life that is usually not either of those things is very grounding. I think.
Joy Bork:And that just comes back to my feeling of you. That's what you're providing as a librarian, you're providing that grounding place for kids to be humans.
Hannah Bunn:I want that, I mean, the first teacher that I remember it was actually my fourth grade teacher. It was the year that I read number the stars. And she was the first teacher that I remember calling me out and saying, she called me a reader. She was like, Hannah, you're a fellow reader like me. And she recommended books to me, like I was her peer. She was like, I just finished this book over the weekend. Based on what you've read before, I really feel like you would like it. And it. Yeah, it really empowered me. And to feel like I had this thing in common with someone that I looked up to so much. And I wanna do that for other kids. And being a classroom teacher was so rewarding, but being able to serve an entire school and being able to be a part of all of those kids' lives and influence all of them in the way that they feel about reading and literacy, like just feels like such a large responsibility, but such a blessing. It's like the dream job
Joy Bork:I'm so glad that you found this and
Hannah Bunn:me too.
Joy Bork:I'm so grateful you're willing to talk to me about it. This
Hannah Bunn:course.
Joy Bork:ah, you are such an amazing nerd.
Hannah Bunn:Thank you.
Joy Bork:Ah, thank you for your time. I really appreciate it.
Hannah Bunn:I'm so glad we got to do this.
Joy Bork:So here we are. I feel so warm and cozy inside after listening to that interview. I was reminded in this interview of the privilege that it is to be able to read. To be able to explore other worlds without getting on a plane. To learn about the experience of another, through the power of narrative story. I hope you are able to find places of wonder and empathy, like what Hannah creates. Hannah, thank you for bringing goodness and diversity into the world. If you've got a flavor of nerd that you want me to celebrate, I would love to hear all about it. So go ahead and email me at herewearethepodcast@gmail.com and tell me everything. I seriously love taking time to sit and make space for nerd to be celebrated. If you really liked this podcast and want to financially support what I'm doing, head on over to patreon.com search for here we are the podcast and sign up for one of the many, many beautifully and sassy written support tears that I'm really proud of. So until next time. Don't forget that curiosity wins. And the world needs more nerds. Bye