Just when you thought flour was just a white powder....
Oh no. It is SO much more.
Tune in today to hear all about what flour is, how to process it, and about many varieties of the glorious grain!
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Welcome to Here We Are. The podcast where we celebrate the beauty of being a nerd by learning about nerdy things from fellow nerds. I'm your host, Joy Blue. Today's guest is a very familiar human to me. We've spent a lot of time together over the span of well, my entire lifetime. Because she is my sister. If you haven't figured this out yet, welcome to the family. Mom set us up to be curious nerds, always looking for the next adventure, thing to learn, experiment, to try. And that's how we got to today's topic. Fresh ground flours. Not like pick them off the meadow flowers, but like I'm a go put some flour in this dough to make some bread with. So prepare to jump in head first to sisterly nerdiness as we learn from my sister Janine Wetzel.
Janine Wetzel:I am Janine and I am Joy's sister.
Joy Blue:Yeah, you are.
Janine Wetzel:am, and I love her very much.
Joy Blue:too.
Janine Wetzel:And I am the mom to three really amazing girls. And wife to an awesome husband. And I probably like to nerd out on funny things, but I really enjoy it. We have 14 chickens in our backyard
Joy Blue:of course you do.
Janine Wetzel:and they all have very distinct personalities and names. I love to read books, love to learn new things, love to play around in my kitchen and experiment with all kinds of things. Just to say that I did.
Joy Blue:right. If Janine's voice sounds familiar, it's not only that she's related to me, but she was also featured on the nerdlet all about lasagna. When uh, her middle daughter, Ellie interviewed her about lasagna. So there you go.
Janine Wetzel:Food Things going through here.
Joy Blue:Right. So what do you wanna nerd out about today?
Janine Wetzel:Well, we're gonna talk about wheat.
Joy Blue:I'm so excited.
Janine Wetzel:it's good stuff.
Joy Blue:It's one of your latest nerd outs.
Janine Wetzel:It is,
Joy Blue:When did you start doing research into wheat?
Janine Wetzel:Well, we've kind of been learning how to cook more from whole food type ingredients
Joy Blue:mean like, choosing more raw things instead of processed things.
Janine Wetzel:More Raw things instead of processed things and how to make it from ingredients you could grow and pronounce rather than things that I have to look up. And so we've kind of been on this kick for a while and Caleb and I were doing research into something and somehow wheat berries came up and we were like, oh, that's interesting. You mean people actually do that?
Joy Blue:Wait, what do you mean wheat berries? what are those?
Janine Wetzel:Wheat berries are what flour comes from. So when wheat is grown in the field and it's harvested, what they harvest is called a wheat berry. And so it's the top. If you've ever seen a head of wheat, it's the little berries from that. I didn't know called berries! They are. They're not really a berry is in like asat you think of a blueberry, but like this little, yeah, wheat berries is what they're called.
Joy Blue:That's amazing.
Janine Wetzel:Yeah, it's kind of fun. So anyway, we were learning about that and when Caleb realized that you can have a bucket of wheat berries stored properly, and it would last for like 20 years, he was like, this is awesome!
Joy Blue:Nerd
Janine Wetzel:Yeah.
Joy Blue:oh
Janine Wetzel:So we talked for several years off and on about wheat berries, like, oh that would be fun to try sometime and just kind of laughed it off. And then for Christmas this year I had a wheat mill show up on my doorstep.
Joy Blue:my
Janine Wetzel:And he was really upset because it didn't come in a box that kept it a secret. I figured out pretty was like, dang it. Since you know, we might as well out and use it.
Joy Blue:okay. And how many buckets of wheat berries do you have? are they all the
Janine Wetzel:Gosh, I don't, I have.
Joy Blue:Are they all the same?
Janine Wetzel:No, they're not all the same. There are different types of wheat, which is all things that I've been learning about. And it's fascinating to learn the different types because they have different purposes. So there's hard and soft wheat. And hard wheat berries are more of what you would think of like when you buy bread flour at the store, they're better for yeasted breads and things like that because their structure is stronger.
Joy Blue:Is this analogous to like hardwoods and soft woods, like soft woods. You wouldn't wanna make like house structure out of a Birch tree, cause it would bend and break, but a hardwood like Oak or pine. Would withstand the greater pressure of
Janine Wetzel:Yeah, they've got greater strength. Greater strength with that. So Yeah, the hard wheat has greater strength. The soft wheat is more of what you think of as an all purpose or a pastry flour.
Joy Blue:Interesting.
Janine Wetzel:Yeah. And then there's different types within that too, if you really wanna nerd out on it.
Joy Blue:I do.
Janine Wetzel:like within the hard wheat, I have two different types here. There's a red wheat and that has more of a, it's not red in color, particularly. The berry is a little bit darker than a hard wheat berry. So they're both hard, but then there's red and white and the red has more of a nutty flavor. And the white is it's a little bit more bland. So you can use that when you really want the other flavors in your bread to shine.
Joy Blue:That is fascinating. Where does one get wheat berries?
Janine Wetzel:Well, the interwebs is a good place to start. You can do it there. I found it at our local health food co-op, or food co-op in town. And then there's like a co-op called Bread Beckers that I ordered stuff from and was able to do a pickup to a local co-op in my
Joy Blue:Whoa service. Okay. So what have you noticed is different about grinding your own wheat versus just going and picking up a bag at the store.
Janine Wetzel:There's several things that are different. One, the flavor is different. If you've got whole wheat that you buy from the store, a lot of times things made with whole wheat don't always taste super awesome the bag of whole wheat from the store. And sometimes it almost has a rancid flavor or funky smell when you
Joy Blue:can go bad.
Janine Wetzel:Yeah, it goes real, it goes bad really fast in the bag. So the nice thing about when you grind your own is that it is fresh. So there's a lot more depth of flavor to it. And it's got a higher nutritional quality because it's fresh because wheat when it's ground goes bad really quickly, which is why the stuff that you buy at the store, many times, they remove all of the bran and a lot of the healthy stuff from it. And then they bleach it and process it and then they have to enrich it because all of those good vitamins were taken out, so they have to put stuff back in. And then if you buy a whole wheat flour, a lot of times they just add back in to that already bleached processed flour. They just add back in a little bit of the wheat bran and the germ, to try to make it more whole wheat-ish again. So the cool thing about when you grind your own, you don't have any waste. We're not pulling away the bran, we're not pulling away the germ. We just got our wheat berries, that grind, and they're yummy. The texture is a little bit different then what you're used to with like a white flower, because with a white flour, a lot of times you have a real fluffy pastry, which is really appealing. We've gotten really used to that as Americans. When you use the fresh ground flour, because of all of the bran and the germ and everything in it, it's a little bit denser. So like I made cinnamon rolls the other day and I've made cinnamon rolls in the past and they're delicious with white flour and all. um, This time I used some of the fresh flour and the rolls were still absolutely wonderful, but they had a texture a little bit more like a bran muffin. They were not quite as light and fluffy as you would have with one made with white flour,
Joy Blue:did you use a hard berry or a soft berry?
Janine Wetzel:you know, I don't remember. I'd have to look at my recipe, whether it called for bread flour, or all purpose. If it called for bread flour, I would've used the hard. And if it was all purpose, I would've used the soft.
Joy Blue:Is it a one to one? Like, do you have to do anything to fill in?
Janine Wetzel:There are a lot of people that do mixtures of different grains to make a better all-purpose flour. I haven't experimented as much with the different mixtures of grains. I've done more of just a one to one because it's easier, but a lot of people have done stuff that make really great mixes from my understanding. One cup of wheat berries though, does not equal one cup of ground flour. It's usually a little bit more flour than the berries that you put in.
Joy Blue:What
Janine Wetzel:I know. Exciting. So I can put in about three cups of berries and I get about four cups of flour out of it.
Joy Blue:that's amazing.
Janine Wetzel:Yeah. It's fun.
Joy Blue:Okay. Okay. So tell me about the milling process. What is that like? What kind of mill do you have?
Janine Wetzel:There's lots of different mills and things on the market. We have a neutra mill and I love it. It's a stone grinding process. So basically I flip it on and it sounds like a really loud vacuum cleaner. And I pour in the wheat berries and then it just spits out the flour in the bottom into a bowl and I'm able to use it right away.
Joy Blue:Kinda like grinding coffee, I guess?
Janine Wetzel:Yeah, pretty much. It doesn't add that much time to my process unless I don't turn on the mill before I add the berries and then I have to clean it all out, cuz it clogs the stones and all. So I've done that a few times.
Joy Blue:I mean, lesson learned.
Janine Wetzel:Yeah, I learned. real quick. You always turn on the mill before you mess with the berries.
Joy Blue:Wow. Okay. What else about this topic has just got you super fascinated. This is amazing. I love all of.
Janine Wetzel:well, obviously I love eating, so the fascination goes
Joy Blue:wait, what?
Janine Wetzel:what makes me happy? Yeah. we've really had a lot of fun. Eating the product of the mill. And I have a lot more experimentation to do. I'm still in the early stages of this.
Joy Blue:What do you wanna try?
Janine Wetzel:well, I'm gonna experiment with grinding corn and make some cornbread and things like that. I wanna do more with some pizza dough and with breads. And I have lots of things that I want to try but have yet to actually make the time for
Joy Blue:Is semolina a type of berry?
Janine Wetzel:It is. type of wheat and it's really cool. The the spectrum of things within the wheat berries, semolina is a specific type that has a flavor that goes really well with pasta.
Joy Blue:yeah. yeah Uhhuh. That's
Janine Wetzel:And then there's like, one of the ancient grains, I'm probably gonna pronounce it wrong. But it's kamut. And I believe, if I'm correct in that, they found that one in like King Tut's tomb and grew it, which is so cool to me that you can get grains that are an ancient form. And then you've got einkorn flours and a lot of things. So if you've got food allergies, there's a lot of options for things that you can do. So I've had fun learning about a lot of that too. I haven't experimented as much as I want to in those areas, but I have lots of friends that have some food sensitivities, and it's really appealing to me to learn about different ways you can make things that it's not as hard on your digestive tract and you're able to eat things still that you like without being sick.
Joy Blue:Yeah. You and I have talked about that too, like with the sourdough process, because the length of the natural fermentation helps break down some of those harder to digest parts of the flour because of fermentation. It's beautiful.
Janine Wetzel:It's a really cool, like, it's just fascinating stuff to learn about. And it's really fun when you put fresh ground flour with sourdough. Caleb's favorite bread that I've made is a combination of sourdough and fresh ground flour.
Joy Blue:Is spelt flour then like just another variety?
Janine Wetzel:Yeah. Spelt is another more ancient grain that is easier to digest as well.
Joy Blue:Okay. I've also experimented with some buck wheat. anything with buck wheat yet?
Janine Wetzel:Not yet. But it's on my list.
Joy Blue:It turned my sourdough loaf a very interesting color. Slightly gray. Purple. I know. I learned about buck wheat flour from this podcast when I interviewed Ted Harro about bread. I know, I love learning things.
Janine Wetzel:I do too!
Joy Blue:So what's next on your learning.
Janine Wetzel:Um, Well, probably to make some of those things that are on my bucket list of things to make
Joy Blue:What's on your bucket list.
Janine Wetzel:The cornbread, absolutely, that's there. I wanna experiment some more. I've tried the whole wheat donuts, but have yet to have'em be like, I want them to be. So I need to experiment some more there. My family loves it when I make English muffins. I've got whole wheat English muffin recipe that they go nuts for. So I'll probably make that again soon.
Joy Blue:Good
Janine Wetzel:job! Um, Yeah, I just kind of like perusing things and going, Ooh, I need to try this.
Joy Blue:I approve of this. We got that from mom. Right? Mom was basically like that. We had an experimental kitchen. So many people have asked me, like, why are you so confident in the kitchen? Or like, oh my gosh, you made donuts or you made corn dogs. And I'm like, well, of course I did. But the, of course strategy isn't an everybody thing
Janine Wetzel:Right. Yeah, I think cuz mom didn't know how to cook at all when she got married and she kind of had to learn with trial by fire. And so we got used to experimenting. and it's been fun. When I say experimental kitchen, my family cheers now rather than booing, which I think is I'm excited about that. I've only made like one or two things in, you know, the last 15 years that weren't edible. Most of them are generally edible.
Joy Blue:I'm really proud of you.
Janine Wetzel:Me too.
Joy Blue:Look at us, doing life.
Janine Wetzel:I'm excited. Attempting to adult.
Joy Blue:Thanks for your time and thanks for your nerd.
Janine Wetzel:Aw, thanks for interviewing me. Good to be with you.
Joy Blue:Okay. I love you. Like you. Bye.
Janine Wetzel:love you. Like you. too. Bye.
Joy Blue:So here we are. My mind is currently teetering on the edge of considering if I too should delve into the magical world of fresh ground wheat. Then I look at all I've got going on in life and you know, I'll just add it to the someday list. This was so fun to talk with Janine about. I'm so grateful we grew up in an experimental kitchen and that we are still taking that mentality forward with us to this day. Keep up the good work sis. If you've got a flavor of nerd that you want me to celebrate, I would love to hear all about it. So go ahead and email me at herewearethepodcast@gmail.com and tell me everything. And I mean, it. I love taking time to sit and make space for nerd to be celebrated. If you really liked this podcast and want to financially support what I'm doing head on over to patreon.com, search for Here We Are The Podcast and sign up for one of the many, many beautifully and sassily written support tiers that I'm very proud of. So until next time. Don't forget that curiosity wins. And the world needs more nerds. Bye