With the seasons changing, it is definitely pet fur-shedding season! Today's interview came about because of Joy's two adorable, very sheddy dogs, and the groomer that now loves them. We're gonna dive into what it takes to groom dogs!
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Welcome to Here We Are. The podcast where we celebrate the beauty of being a nerd by learning about nerdy things from fellow nerds. I'm your host, Joy Blue. Today, I've got another great human for y'all to meet. A few weeks ago, I called a local dog grimmer to see about getting our two Pyrenees lab mixed dogs de shedded, because it is definitely summer and wow. They have lots of hair. I expected the usual transactional phone exchange and found myself utterly surprised at the snap connection I made with the human on the other end of my call. I knew then and there that this human needed to be featured on Here We Are. Not only for her smarts, but for her care and kindness. So without further ado here's Otter Aggio to talk with us all about dog grooming:
Otter Aggio:my name is Otter. It's Otter, like the animal. I am a dog groomer with extensive backgrounds in like veterinary and stuff like that. And I'm a doer of all things, I always say. I'm a musician. I'm a nerd of all types. So that's about it.
Joy Blue:We love nerds here. The whole point of this podcast is to talk about nerds with nerds.
Otter Aggio:I love it.
Joy Blue:Okay, so I met you last week or the week before because I have two pyrenees lab mixed dogs who are very fluffy and I called your grooming. Do you call it a salon?
Otter Aggio:It's salon because it's our only brick and mortar salon, and then the owners have three other mobile units.
Joy Blue:That's sweet. You are within walking distance of my house. What's your salon called,
Otter Aggio:It's called"What a Wonderful Woof."
Joy Blue:Which is so punny and part of the reason I called you
Otter Aggio:So I actually interviewed 18 places before finding them.
Joy Blue:Really?
Otter Aggio:And I found them through an Instagram ad, which is funny cause I was like giving up and I was like, maybe grooming is not my industry anymore, when I go into school again. I believe it was fate finding them, and they're just awesome people, so it was really cool
Joy Blue:That's amazing.
Otter Aggio:and the name was what got me too.
Joy Blue:Well, yeah, I mean, I hang out with people that do puns, so we're doing pretty good. How did you get started with dog grooming? Do you do cats too? Do you do all animals?
Otter Aggio:I've always loved cats. My mom and dad were separated, so I grew up going back and forth on a farm.
Joy Blue:Uhhuh.
Otter Aggio:So I grew up just like loving animals and I always thought I was gonna be a vet. Because I grew up like nabbing cats and like messing with horses and doing stuff I shouldn't. One time I brought a baby raccoon home and my mom was like, that's not a cat. My mom was like, that's not a cat. And I was like, okay,
Joy Blue:That's a
Otter Aggio:I like him now. I like him now. So he is mine, but.
Joy Blue:Yeah. Wow. How'd that go for you?
Otter Aggio:my mom was so mad. She was like, get that outta your hand. I was like, okay. Well, but I always loved animals. And so I started college and I was like being a vet's just not plausible when I'm on my own right now, like I'm. I'm just gonna go into chemistry cuz I got this crazy scholarship to the school. I'm going to quit everything, just do chemistry. I hated it. I hated it so bad. And so I started vet tech right before the pandemic. And I hated that more. Because the things you learn and the things you see and the people you see in that field, there's either people who are amazing people, and they just have these hearts of gold, and they're meant to do that, but they're getting underpaid and undervalued and they see things they shouldn't and they just, you just watch their hearts break and they wither away, and it's it's so sad because I always say, no one really knows this, but veterinarian is the highest rate of suicide in the
Joy Blue:Oh, wow.
Otter Aggio:That field and it really goes unchecked. And people in this field just not getting the help they need at all and it's terrible. Or you see people who really shouldn't be in that field and they're the problem and you can't fight it cuz it's your job. So I quit while I was ahead and I started bathing dogs as soon as I lost my well paying job and dropped outta school at the end of 2020 a friend of mine was like, well, we're getting, I was singing at this place that had just reopened for an outdoor show, and she was like, well, we need bathers at this place. And I was like, cool, I'll start bathing dogs. I love doing that.
Joy Blue:Seems fun.
Otter Aggio:And then the owner of that shop ended up really liking how I was with them and my diligence and she was like, I do an apprenticeship program. Do you wanna be an apprentice? So I did that and she does like aesthetician based apprenticeships, which is really cool. She's a really good teacher.
Joy Blue:Can you define that?
Otter Aggio:It's like we did adjacent to learning just the styling and like the handling of dog grooming. She also taught, C P R certification, which you're supposed to have, animal handling, enrichment and skincare.
Joy Blue:Wow.
Otter Aggio:So things that are like for specific types of dogs, like we constantly were the salon that took all the old geriatrics. Any dogs that have skincare that just end up getting treated for allergies
Joy Blue:Yeah.
Otter Aggio:there's. No knowledge of it in the veterinary world, that's extensive.
Joy Blue:Interesting.
Otter Aggio:If you have a person, anybody who's listening, who's into dog grooming, I recommend Dr. Faver. That's where we did our esthetician based learning, cuz he's amazing. That just really sparked my interest. And when I graduated I was there for a while. And no hate to the salon. They were good people and it was awesome that I was moving an hour away getting married and I was like, well, what am I gonna do? I'm screwed now. I'm gonna go find another salon. Nothing's gonna meet my standards cuz there's so much malpractice.
Joy Blue:Yeah.
Otter Aggio:and then I found, what a wonderful woof. And I'm the only one in there. I like being one-on-one with the dogs, no distractions. It makes them more comfortable.
Joy Blue:Yeah. Is this something that lights you up inside?
Otter Aggio:yes, and it was because of my first time seeing competition.
Joy Blue:What do you mean?
Otter Aggio:I've seen dog shows before. I'm not gonna go into my controversial view on the ethics of breeding cuz I don't really believe in breeding. But that's a whole conversation for another time. And I also am a lot stricter than most people with my ethics. But when it comes to like dog shows, I never really agreed too much or found joy in them. I was like, oh yeah, the dogs are cool and they're agile, they're having fun, they're well bred, but what did it take to get there?
Joy Blue:Right.
Otter Aggio:But the dog grooming world is a whole different story. And going to my first show at All American in Schaumburg, my first year of being an apprentice was life changing. It was so awesome to see people who believe in like the enrichment of grooming and not continuing unless the dog's comfortable. They have all these seminars and then you see the actual show happening and the creativity behind this is like mind boggling. bichons I started doing creative on the side. I did my now husband's three rescue bichons and I dyed them different colors.
Joy Blue:That's so fun.
Otter Aggio:with cherry blossoms on her, and ever since then I was like, if I can just continue to groom and make these dogs happy and then maybe do something creative here and there, I have both outlets then.
Joy Blue:That is so interesting.
Otter Aggio:Isn't it cool?
Joy Blue:You keep hitting on, there's just, there's so many things I wanna talk about. You keep hitting on like your values in grooming. Tell me more about enrichment. Tell me about like your approach. How did you get there? How do you become in tune with the dog or the animal getting groomed?
Otter Aggio:I've met people who have that feeling with the dogs and even when they're at their worst, the dogs are still present with them. But I've also met people who, as much as they want to be that for animals, they unfortunately just can't. I feel like it is something that like, I hate to say it like, oh, you're born with it. You're not born with it. If you're nice to animals, I'm sure they'll be great and there's skills you definitely have to learn. You can definitely tell, especially a seasoned groomer. Like an unseasoned groomer, because there are things you see and things you can expect that like people always say, oh, do you muzzle dogs? Do you deal with dogs that bite? And personally, I've never, ever turned a dog away because of biting or, Mal behavior because like me, it's learning, okay, are they comfortable with this? Are they in pain? Are they frustrated? Are they, too tired? Are they too hungry, are too, something different about them today from the last X amount of times I've seen them. Like it's reading those signs and knowing. That's why I'm so adamant about people having one particular groomer. Maybe it takes a few to find that one particular groomer that your dog is comfortable with and knows, and I'll never take offense if I'm not that groomer for your dog. But once you get a groomer that your dog is comfortable with and your dog understands and knows it is so important, we are the first line of defense before vets. We can know when something is wrong. I've had a friend, a colleague from my last place find out for them that the dog had a tumor because she's he's never been sensitive for this before. You might need to go take him
Joy Blue:Interesting.
Otter Aggio:And it was so early on, it was way better than it could have been, but
Joy Blue:That's so interesting.
Otter Aggio:I right, because we see them more than the vets do. Who can shell out a vet bill every two months? You see your groomer every, depending on the dog, month to three, four months.
Joy Blue:That's so interesting. I know with humans it's called being an empath, where you can be in tune with I'm assuming it would be called the same thing. I mean, I feel that with my animals. Like when I go to a party, if there's a pet there, I am in the corner with the pet and people can come talk to me for sure. But like I'm the one that connects with the animals. I feel like most of my life I've been able to intuit what the animal's trying to say. And most often I'm right. Can I do that with human babies? No. Can I do that with dogs? Yes.
Otter Aggio:I don't understand babies. I never know what they want from me.
Joy Blue:Same. Same.
Otter Aggio:Animals. I'm just like, I know exactly what you need. Babies.
Joy Blue:I'm the same. I think about dog grooming and I think about the intimacy that you are experiencing with the animal. And that makes me think of like the intimacy that we have as humans. When we all come together at a table and we eat together. Like you are.
Otter Aggio:very vulnerable.
Joy Blue:Yeah, and what I heard you say earlier was like you're in tune with the feelings of the dog, and I love how you said like you can help them be present with you the whole time. Dogs experience anxiety too. Like I disassociate. Of course dogs would probably disassociate because it is an intimate experience.
Otter Aggio:And sometimes you don't know. They obviously can't speak English. They don't know what to say to you, but if you know how they're communicating with you otherwise, you can understand what they need in a sense, sometimes.
Joy Blue:Yeah.
Otter Aggio:I'll have dogs who come in shaking like a leaf, and then by the time they leave, they're like I don't wanna come out in the lobby by you, mom. I wanna stay back here with her. Because it's like eventually when you learn, Hey, this needs to happen, obviously. Sometimes I do have to use methods of, I hate saying force cuz I'd never be like, oh, get over here. We gotta do this. Because force is such like a, it has a bad connotation, but like sometimes you have to hold the dog's leg and be like, Hey, this needs to happen for your health buddy. As much as you can fight me right now, it's gotta happen. And then I let them smell whatever I'm doing. I introduce every item to them. It's sometimes it'll take a little bit longer, but I'll warn mom and dad of that.
Joy Blue:Yeah.
Otter Aggio:I tell the owners right away, Hey, this is not gonna be a fast process if they're scared. This is not gonna be a fast process if they're, in pain or whatever. I deal with geriatrics all the time. That's what I like to do. I always joke, I like the crusty, dusty, angry ones. But, They're my favorite. They always got like lumps and oozes and boozes, and I always say they probably feel a hundred times better after. And you see it. Like their demeanor changes and I don't know, I just like being able to, help them in a way that they don't know they need and they can't do for themselves. They're domesticated animals. They don't have that sense anymore.
Joy Blue:Right. That's such a gift though.
Otter Aggio:Oh, I appreciate that.
Joy Blue:Like I, I hear what you're saying. And essentially what you're doing is creating a safe space for existence in the presence of unknowns. Like what you're doing is creating a safe basis, a safe platform, a foundation, for a relationship. So like I'm so curious to see how my dogs interact with you and what your feedback is on my dogs. Selfishly just tell me everything.
Otter Aggio:I'm so excited. I wanna be like, oh yeah, I'm like a dog mind reader, but I'm not like,
Joy Blue:No, but you see patterns.
Otter Aggio:yeah. And that's the why it's so important to have one person, because I. Once that person knows, it becomes a smoother process no matter what. So even if your dog is anxious about it, and sometimes dogs will just continue to be anxious. I can't win everybody over on the first try. But it's that consistency, those patterns. That's how dog psychology works. It's patterns. It's how you teach your dog a trick. Obviously you do it 60 times before they get it right the first time.
Joy Blue:I mean, same. I'm all about patterns too. If you feed me, I'll probably do something.
Otter Aggio:If you feed me, I'll come back. I always tell my husband, that's how he got me.
Joy Blue:It's really not that hard. Feed me.
Otter Aggio:husband. Exactly. My husband's like a European mix, but he is Italian and he's like a really good cook. And I always joke cause we were friends for years and one time I called him, I always knew that we liked each other, whatever. And I called him crying. I was like, I'm having a bad day. He came over and he made me food and he stayed the night. He never left.
Joy Blue:Yep.
Otter Aggio:Never left. We have been together since, and I always joke, you started feeding me. So I just, I'm like a stray cat.
Joy Blue:Yep. Back on topic. When a dog comes into you, what is your process? What do you assess? How do you know what to do? How do you approach it? What do you start with? What's just the basics of the physicality of grooming?
Otter Aggio:I think there are fundamentals you just have the process of the protocol. Of Hey, introduce yourself to the dog, see how they're reacting to you. And sometimes dog owners will just be like, here's dog. Take and then leave. Cuz they have a note in the system or whatever, and I'm like, okay, cool. They don't know me. But cool because I'm fairly new there, I'm like four or five months. So I've been introducing myself to every single dog and saying, Hey, this is, he might be nervous. I'm new. They've seen so-and-so for so long. And now I'm a new person for them, might be a little bit scary
Joy Blue:Sure.
Otter Aggio:and I always am transparent. I think that's the biggest part of it is just transparency is like, Hey, I'm doing this right now. I'll be with you in one second. And then I'll come out there and I'll introduce myself to the dog and I'll tell them, Hey, maybe they're just nervous about X, Y, Z. Have they been groomed multiple times in the past. What's their experience like usually? Do you know anything about what they're sensitive of? And I told mom and dad, we can do this, that, and the third. And I like being able to have that kind of profile on them. Cuz I have a lot of cases in which mom and dad, oh, the dog's fine. The dog is not fine. And you can always tell who's a nervous parent, who's really worried about being a good pet parent and who's not. And obviously there are some moral battles I have with people who are not good pet parents because, you see it. But in my experience, I always see the nervous ones come and be like, ah, he had a sore on his left leg three months ago. He gets nervous around men with blonde hair, and it's okay, cool. He's allergic to wheat. I'm like, ok, no treats cool. You can always tell. So you watch them come in, especially first time pet parents and they're like, I don't know exactly how this works. And I'm like, it's okay. I got you. I got you. And it's so funny to watch them like be that nervous coming in, obviously I don't want them to be that nervous, but leaving and they're like, oh my God, he did great. Cool. I didn't know he would do great. And it's like, He was fine. he he didn't bite me. He bites me at home and I'm like, they know what they can get away with, with mom and dad. They, if you're sitting there cuddling them one second and the next second you're plucking something out between their eyeballs, they're gonna try to get their teeth on you because you're mom and dad, if they come there and I pluck their eyeballs, well, I don't say eyeballs,
Joy Blue:Pluck their eyeballs.
Otter Aggio:buggies every single time and. They get used to it. They know I'm the one that does that. They don't associate it with mom and dad, so they're like, what are you doing in my face? And it's and so people are always so nervous and they're like, well, I don't think he likes that and I don't think he likes this. Well, if it's a process, and then he comes in, we'll introduce it, and once he realizes, Hey, that wasn't so bad. I got a treat at the end of it, she gave me a ball. We ran around until I was tired, like, Then they'll usually have a better time than they did with mom and dad at home, putting them on their back and trying to clip their nails.
Joy Blue:Sure.
Otter Aggio:So
Joy Blue:Yeah, that makes sense. So once you're done with the initial assessment with the humans, you take the dog to the back, what do you do then?
Otter Aggio:that's the cool part about our salon. There's no back,
Joy Blue:There's no back.
Otter Aggio:so there's no back. The lobby is very cute. It's Like little waiting area, but we have a mid-section wall that's just about like up here to me, to the wall. And then the door is like here, I wanna say like up to my, for listening up to my chin. So I can see over the door. It's a big like door that opens hinged. And then we have the desk that faces the outside
Joy Blue:Mm-hmm.
Otter Aggio:And you can see the whole facility. It's like a suite.
Joy Blue:That's really cool.
Otter Aggio:So it's just my table, my grooming station, and then the big tub in the back. And I do have four kennels for dogs overlapping cuz we don't like, non-family dogs interacting out of, safety.
Joy Blue:Yep.
Otter Aggio:But other than that, you can see everything, you know, and
Joy Blue:That's really cool.
Otter Aggio:I always tell mom and dad if they wanna stay, if they think it'll make, there's a couple dogs I have that do worse if their parents aren't there. And it usually, for smaller dogs only takes an hour and a half.
Joy Blue:sure.
Otter Aggio:So if they feel more comfortable being there and knowing what's going on, especially after having bad experiences somewhere else I'm all for it.
Joy Blue:That's so interesting. Not gonna lie. One of my A D H D rabbit holes that I go down on the interwebs is definitely dog grooming videos. I've seen so many of them and they're so intricate and fascinating. My favorite are the D shed Blowouts with Double Coat Dogs. Makes me so excited. Also, a little jealous that you get to blow my dogs out.
Otter Aggio:it's a fun process, but I will say the cleanup is not fun.
Joy Blue:I believe it.
Otter Aggio:You find hair in places, hair should not be.
Joy Blue:Y No, no thanks.
Otter Aggio:Do you know what hair spliners are?
Joy Blue:No. What are hairs? Oh gosh. Do they like get
Otter Aggio:They go under, so I got my insides of my elbows waxed Because they just get implanted in
Joy Blue:ah,
Otter Aggio:they're itchy for days.
Joy Blue:I mean, I know that hair, like in the dryer, like hair weaves itself into things. But it does that to your skin.
Otter Aggio:For short hairs. Yeah, because they're sharp. It hurts.
Joy Blue:Bless you. And your workplace hazards.
Otter Aggio:I always say I don't have a glamorous job, but the dogs leave looking glamorous. That's all I can ask for.
Joy Blue:What is your favorite kind of dog to groom?
Otter Aggio:Ooh, this is a good question. I'm working on a standard poodle. To compete with. So I love I'm trying to do Continental on her, but we'll see.
Joy Blue:What does that mean?
Otter Aggio:It's like a specific type of cut. Have you ever seen the poodles on like the fifties girls dresses,
Joy Blue:Yeah,
Otter Aggio:skirts, that that cut? Yeah. With the big Yeah. And then the chess piece. Yeah, Tufty poodles. And
Joy Blue:That's continental. Okay.
Otter Aggio:I really like blowouts too,
Joy Blue:Fascinating. How do you approach matts?
Otter Aggio:So this is a very controversial topic in the grooming industry, mats specifically are for me. I won't tolerate, I will shave your dog unless it's a double coated dog. And say, Hey, it's just not an option. I'm not gonna sit here and cut off your dog's circulation and try to pull at this mat and demat it with a blade. He's not comfortable. I'm not gonna create more of an uncomfortable process for him. He's probably already uncomfortable with how much circulation he's losing from being matted now if it's
Joy Blue:so Matt's cutoff circulation.
Otter Aggio:The closer they are to the skin, the more circulation the dog loses.
Joy Blue:Because the hair is pulling at the skin.
Otter Aggio:it's tightening. Yeah. So when mats are created, they intertwine with each other, so the hair gets more and more pushed down, more and more condensed. Those hairs are being pulled together by the other hairs.
Joy Blue:Interesting.
Otter Aggio:so they're pulling at the skin at every moment, every way that they move. They get itchy. They can get hematomas on their ears from it,
Joy Blue:what's a hematoma?
Otter Aggio:blood vessels bursting,
Joy Blue:Ooh,
Otter Aggio:and it can get really bad in their ears.
Joy Blue:that's scary.
Otter Aggio:Yeah, it's a health risk. It really is. And then people are like, oh, I don't want my dog matted. I've had a couple people being like, pelted, matted dogs. And they're like, can you just like wash and blow dry them and then send them home And I'll deal with it at home. And I'm like,
Joy Blue:You're not dealing with it at home.
Otter Aggio:I'm not washing and dry unless it's gonna get more mad at.
Joy Blue:Right.
Otter Aggio:So either you accept what I'm gonna have to do or I can't provide you any service. You
Joy Blue:Interesting.
Otter Aggio:unfortunate, but I've had some moral cases where I've called my husband after seeing how the owners are with the dog at some points and being like, do I just lose my job right now and take this dog home? He is happier with me than with his owners. And that's happened,
Joy Blue:That's scary.
Otter Aggio:You see neglect cases, we unfortunately can't report anything because they are caring for their animal by taking them into grooming.
Joy Blue:Wow.
Otter Aggio:it is what it is. You have a moral debate a lot, but.
Joy Blue:Yeah. Wow. So in the rabbit holes, I've gone down on the internet, there's all kinds of different dog brushes. What do each of them do?
Otter Aggio:Everyone's different. I can't say I'm an expert on any of this. I have learned a lot working in the industry for a couple years now, but like I, every dog has a different type of brush that's needed, and every groomer has a preference.
Joy Blue:Interesting
Otter Aggio:So I like the art Arterio. When you look for a longer pinned brush, that's for like fluffier dogs and we'll get down to the knots and anything that's curl or fluffy like a shitzu or poodle. I like art Arterio brushes. They have de matting brushes that I would, there are certain levels of matting that I would say this is safe to get out. This is not.
Joy Blue:Sure.
Otter Aggio:If the dog is super uncomfortable, I'm not gonna continue, but I don't think any form of aesthetics is worth the dog's discomfort
Joy Blue:Yeah.
Otter Aggio:because
Joy Blue:seems like a pretty solid value line.
Otter Aggio:that's it. I don't care what you think. I can't put the perfect style on a dog. I'm not the best creative groomer out there. I'm not the most detailed person, but I'm sure gonna make your dog feel better
Joy Blue:Yeah,
Otter Aggio:and comfortable,
Joy Blue:right.
Otter Aggio:And for brushes wise, I'll use a dematting comb on something small on a say you get like a Berniese mountain dog who has like a small mat behind their ear. You don't wanna just shave a chunk outta their ear, like something like that. But I know groomers who will just run that through a whole dog. there's different brushes for double coated dogs too. People will use the zoom grooms a lot,
Joy Blue:I don't know what
Otter Aggio:like a big rubber brush
Joy Blue:Oh,
Otter Aggio:it pulls short-haired de shedding dogs, hair, and it's really safe, super good.
Joy Blue:Okay.
Otter Aggio:I would advise against a furminator.
Joy Blue:Okay.
Otter Aggio:A lot of people use furminators. It's very common, very popular because it is a blade, so it is going to cut a double coated dog's hair no matter what intensity you're using it at. So you are still damaging the follicle, even if you're not doing a lot of damage. I would just continue with a rubber brush of some sort. It might take a little more elbow grease, but
Joy Blue:Okay.
Otter Aggio:better by them.
Joy Blue:All right.
Otter Aggio:Yeah.
Joy Blue:The more you know.
Otter Aggio:Yeah. That's just, my opinion and a lot of people do a lot of weird things.
Joy Blue:What's one thing you wish people knew about grooming or think something that they get wrong?
Otter Aggio:It's a lot more work than people think. Like you get people, I had, oh, I used to work three or four jobs at a time when I was in school. Cause I supported my mom and I. 18, 19 years old, I'm doing all this stuff. I worked a serving job at a bar and I will never forget this cuz he is one of my friends. And he goes, so you're a grooming apprentice? And I was like, yeah. He goes, so you just shave dogs all day? And I was like, yeah. And he was like, isn't that easy? Don't, doesn't it only take 20, 30 minutes? Cause then you're just like, zip. And they're done. And I'm like, no, not at all. There's, There's a whole process, but yeah. Okay. And he was like, it should, it must be so fun. So many people have the stigma that it must be so fun. You just play with puppies all day. I'm getting beat up by puppies all day. A lot of them don't know where their limbs are. I could show you my arms. They look terrible.
Joy Blue:Yeah.
Otter Aggio:And I'm okay with that and it's a part of the job, but people are like, oh, it must be so fun. Yeah, there are parts that are so fun. I love getting to make my clients happy, but sometimes it's really difficult, strenuous body-wise, and sometimes it's mentally strenuous. Cause sometimes I'm halfway through a groom. I'm like, I don't know what I'm supposed to do right now. This dog is too stressed out. This dog is this dog is that. And it gets hard
Joy Blue:Yeah.
Otter Aggio:because people are like, oh, you just played with dogs a day. You get to go home. No, it's, I am, I'm personally, I have a lot of mental struggles and I have quite a, an array of diagnoses. And one of the things that I struggle with the most is getting overstimulated.
Joy Blue:Yeah, same.
Otter Aggio:And being in an environment where sometimes you can't turn off the barking, you can't turn off the fan, the blow dryer, your hand is burning because you're uncomfortable you're overstimulated by the hair being around you. You feel gross, you feel wet, you feel sometimes you have to literally get inside the tub with the dog sometimes to keep them in there and calm them down, and it's just not a fun environment for anybody who's neuro divergent.
Joy Blue:Yep.
Otter Aggio:And you don't see any comfort for that. A lot of times I'm very grateful for my bosses. They're wonderful people about that kind of thing.
Joy Blue:Yeah.
Otter Aggio:They're so sweet. So I'm very grateful for that. But a lot of people think that it's a lot easier than it is and it's not.
Joy Blue:Yeah. It's physical, emotional, mental, all the things. That's amazing. What a gift you have, and also a burden as is any job.
Otter Aggio:Yep.
Joy Blue:you so much for coming on and sharing about and I'm so excited to meet you in person and see what happens with my dogs.
Otter Aggio:I'm so excited. I can't wait to meet them.
Joy Blue:so Here We Are. This was such a fun and educational episode. I loved getting to learn about grooming from Otter. She did an amazing job De shedding our dogs and even recommended an awesome undercoat brush that my dogs hate, yet I love. It is so satisfying to let that undercoat fly in the air. I am so grateful for what you do and who you are, Otter. Thanks again for your time. If you've got a flavor of nerd that you want me to celebrate, I would love to hear all about it. So go ahead and email me at herewearethepodcast@gmail.com and tell me everything. I love taking time to sit and make space for nerd to be celebrated. If you really liked this podcast and want to financially support what I'm doing head on over to patreon.com search for Here We Are The Podcast and sign up for one of the many beautifully written support tiers that I'm very proud of. So until next time, don't forget that curiosity wins and the world needs more nerds. Bye.