The Broken Record Player Podcast
The Broken Record Player Podcast
Genres of Metal: Episode 1-Death Metal
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This is episode 1 of a series exploring the genres of metal. Episode 1 is on the brutal, harsh, and relentless Death Metal! Joining me to discuss the history, our thoughts on the genre, where it stands today, and some of the artists, albums and songs is Necrotic Nick from the YouTube channel Thralls of Metal!
Hey everybody, thank you for being patient. Welcome back to the show. It has been a long time. I just needed some time off to gather my thoughts, figure out what I wanted to do with this podcast moving forward, and I think I've figured it out. So thank you for being patient, and I'm excited about what's going to happen next on the show. I have decided to dedicate the show not just to discussing one album at a time or even doing lists, but I've been wanting to deep dive into different music genres and different musical topics, a whole bunch of different things. For the next I would say seven or eight episodes, though, I have decided to dedicate each episode to a subgenre of metal. We're going to be doing deep dives. We're going to look at our favorite albums of the genre. We're talking about the history of it, why we like it, or if we don't like it, not every subgenre of metal is one that I absolutely love. So there's going to be some that I like more than others. And it's going to be interesting to talk with my guest about it and figure out like what do we love about it, maybe what don't we like, which bands do we like, you know, things like that. What are our favorite songs, etc. etc. But my uh my thought was like let's deep dive into these subgenres and let's give them each kind of their own episode. And my guest is a guy who's been on many times, and I thought he'd be the perfect one to do this with me. And it is Necrotic Nick from Thralls of Metal. If you haven't checked out the show on YouTube, go check him out. But he's going to be joining me on a number of these. Actually, I think most of them, we've decided to eliminate a few that he's not a huge fan of, which I'm fine with. Maybe I'll do those with somebody else. But I want to give all the major subgenres a little bit of attention and see, you know, their history, what I think about them, what my guest likes or does not like about them. And it's just going to be a lot of fun. I think we're going to enjoy it. And it should be a kind of a departure from what I've done before. But uh our first episode is going to be on death metal, which I know Necrotic Nick loves, and I'm a pretty big fan of as well. But we're going to talk about it. We're going to unpack it. We're going to do a deep dive on death metal. That is episode one of the genres of metal on this next episode of the Broken Record Player Podcast. Alright, everybody, welcome back to the podcast. I know it's been a long time, but I am really excited for this next phase of the show. Got a fresh vision, a lot coming your way. As I mentioned in the intro, the next episodes are going to be dedicated to the world of metal, and we're going to be doing deep dives on a number of the different genres of metal. When I was thinking of doing this, and who could join me on this journey, there was only one guy that really crossed my mind. So say hello once again to Necrotic Nick from The Thralls of Metal. What's up, man?
SPEAKER_00What's going on, guys? Always a pleasure to come back. And yeah, you you you wrote me in with like the easy ones. Like, hey, you want to talk about death metal?
unknownDo I?
SPEAKER_04Well, to be honest, it was random. Like, I I put all the genres that I wanted to talk about in one of those like randomizers online, and I clicked spin the wheel and it it picked death metal. And I was like, Well, it's gotta be, you know, this is this is perfect because the first episode we did was on death. So how fitting, right? How fitting is it that we talk about death metal?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it it was the thing that brought us together, and yeah, I mean, in terms of my most listened genre, like I would say it's between this and thrashlight. That's what I cut my teeth on. And in terms of like extremity in metal, death metal is kind of where like I kind of cut my teeth on that too, like where things started getting a little bit darker, like this is never ever going to be on the radio. No, this is strictly for people that like zombie movies and blood and guts, and you know, getting incredibly drunk and watching those movies. Yeah, some of them.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, and and you agreed graciously to do more of these types of episodes in the future. So at the end of this episode, I am going to spin that wheel that I mentioned earlier, and we're gonna find out what we're doing next. All right. We don't I don't know what it's gonna be. I just know power metal is not in the list, so I took that out. I won't we I won't make you listen to like uh Dragon Force or any of that stuff.
SPEAKER_00So I would be able to talk about like Dio and maybe a couple of other bands. Like that's all I got, man.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. I mean, again, I no I don't want to talk about power metal. Why why would I was about to go on about power metal? Fuck power metal. We're talking about death metal, all right? Let's talk about death metal. Um so I got a I got lyrics here. This to me, this is like this is death metal burning from the inside out, bloody foam spews from your mouth. Smell the putrid stents of flash stench of flesh as it burns you to your death. That's autopsy, isn't it? It is autopsy, charred remains. What a perfect way to describe death metal, right? Bloody foam spews from your mouth. Excellent.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah. It's very descriptive, it's textured. Yeah. I mean, it's you know, that's the thing that I loved about death metal too, is like it was so over the top. It's in love with how gory and twisted it can be. But I mean, like anything, as it aged, it can go through like different phases. You get stuff that's way more introspective, you know, black and death metal, death grime. Yeah, I mean, subject matter is is kind of whatever at a certain point, but it's that delivery, you have to sound gross and grimy and kind of filthy. At least, you know, for me, an autopsy always captures that.
SPEAKER_04Definitely. And I know you love it. So what the first category I wanted to talk about was whether or not you like this form of metal, because sometimes you know, there's a lot of types of metal, and some I'm crazy about, others I'm not so crazy about, but you love it. You're wearing a suffocation hat, you know, you've got the obituary poster behind you, an immolate uh incantation flag. You love it. We know you I knew you loved it before asking you to do this, so why do you love it? Is the question.
SPEAKER_00Man, like I'd have to like go back to like when I first like started hearing it. And I mean, my first exposure to death metal, it happened to a lot of 90s kids. We saw a movie called Ace Ventura, and there was this awesome scene with cannibal corpse, and uh yeah, it it was like I I didn't know how to describe what I was watching or hearing, like it was like dude, this sounds almost animalistic and feral. It's kind of scared me a little bit, especially with Barnes just with a hair draped over his face. Like he was like, dude, what the fuck is that? And years later, I saw Cannibal Corpse and like a cannibal um candle music, and I picked up Eaton Back to Life, and I was like, dude, this is just insane. And from there, like it was like a fix. Like, I need to hear the next thing that was that extreme, like you know, led me to obituary, suffocation, uh, deocide. It was like, dude, this this is kind of a new thing about like because before that, you know, thrash metal was kind of like this is pretty damn heavy, and it is, yeah, but death metal just felt more primal, more inhuman. Like when I heard John Tardy's vocals, it was like that that doesn't even sound like a fucking person anymore. I like that it's so removed from anything like super melodic or accessible. Like this thing is just grimy, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So you were like when you first heard it, it was something that you were just like stunned by at first. You were just like, What the hell is this? I've never heard anything like it. You were just kind of in a state of shock, I'm assuming.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, like down to like how the bands look, because like most of the time, like you know, 90s death metal bands, just the drape of hair over the face, and they're looking down at the ground. Like, I can't see their faces. They're they're clearly ghouls underneath that. Yeah, uh, and the the artwork, like you know, thrash metal artwork, like is generally a little bit like more political, more about like smashing and destroying shit. Death metal artwork was a little bit grosser, a little bit grimier, a little bit more like haunting overall. Yeah. Stuck with you.
SPEAKER_04Well, I'm gonna be very controversial here, and I'm gonna admit that I don't know if I fully love it the way that obviously you love it. Because I'm picky. I'm picky about my death metal. There's nothing wrong with that. Yeah, I tend to gravitate more towards the old school, groovier death metal rather than like the purely brutal or even the overly technical stuff. Um, just because I gotta have that, I gotta have a hook, a groove, a riff, something that's like, damn, that's awesome. So, like my my love is for that late 80s, early 90s old school death metal sound. Um, and I I do like the some of the brutal stuff, it's gotta be done right though.
SPEAKER_00Um totally get it. Like, because I mean again, like this is a genre that has evolved over time. You have like their separate tribes and whatnot. Yeah, I've tried to explore it all, I don't necessarily like all of it, but I I appreciate you know the ver uh the variety in it, I guess you could say. Mostly my taste will lurk in the old school because that's where I cut my teeth. Like, that's gonna be like the thing I compare kind of everything to. Yeah. And a lot of it was Floridian, but you know, I kind of got into other stuff later, but yeah, I totally get it. Like, you're not gonna like every band. In fact, like there's some bands out there that say, Yeah, yeah, they're good, but they sound like this band that I've been listening to for years. So Right, right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, that's that's kind of the thing about sometimes about death metal, or is sometimes it's like, well, that sounds like that band or that band. And I mean you could say that about a lot of genres, it's not just death metal, but there is sometimes it is harder for the for the untrained ear to always pick out the differences. I can hear it amongst like the bigger named bands, but like you know, once you go down the rabbit hole, it's like, eh, does that band really sound that different from that band or that band?
SPEAKER_00You know, I I get that a lot, like you know, like you know, most of the brutal bands, I feel like they kind of stem off of like suffocation. Yeah, and I can hear suffocation and all their stuff. You know, the Floridian bands most of the time end up sounding a bit like you know, monstrosity or deocide, etc. My main thing though is I always say that riffs are diplomatic, like those are the things that kind of reach out to everyone in metal. And if you can find good riffs to latch on to, the ones that stick with you, that's the gateway in, right?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, definitely, definitely. And I want to, you know, say that these guys are truly talented musicians, even even the stuff that sounds maybe repetitive, some of the playing, like the drumming, the guitar, like I I feel like my hands would fall off if I tried doing what they're doing. I mean, some of that stuff is truly uh truly remarkable.
SPEAKER_00I mean, the amount of death metal bands that I have seen live, like there are there are players out there that I just I I just kind of stare in awe, like I think I've been locked on this one guy for way too long. I need to move over to the drummer or the guitarist or the bassist. Um, like uh Origin. I've seen Origin plenty of times. Their bassist is absolutely insane. Like, I don't even know how to describe what he's doing, but it looks like he's assaulting the bass, but it's amazing. Um, Alex Webster, uh from Cannibal Corpse, incredible player.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh, and you get to hear like different facets of us playing in different projects, but even in Cannibal Corpse, like he has like notable catchy bass lines.
SPEAKER_04Well, and I'm glad you actually brought Alex up because I have a quote from him right here uh about the musicianship of Death Metal guys. He says most western music is people singing from the heart, singing to a girlfriend. So a lot of people are freaked out by our songs, but our lyrics are just stories, they're just written to be as gross and disgusting as we could make them. At night we get a case of beer and watch gory horror movies, but you know, we're not violent people at all. We just play extreme music, so we figured we needed extreme lyrics, and he would go on to say that um uh that people who don't know this music think it's just a bunch of noise and it's really easy to play. That's totally untrue. You may not like it, but death metal is really complex, you have to have a really fine-tuned ear to appreciate it, and a lot of the guys in these bands are incredible musicians. Couldn't agree more.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh definitely. Like, I mean, and initially I thought like you know, that stuff sounded simple because it was just a blur noise, but the more you listen to it, the more you hear those intricacies. Like, dude, riff work and even like the old school stuff where you think it's like not as technical, yeah. Like it it really is like even like you know, cannibal corpse, which is like you know, a staple across death metal, there's a lot of technical play in that band that people just kind of don't see, right? But right, yeah, and then you get to the tech death bands like holy shit, I don't I don't what like when I first heard Necrophagist, I was like, that man went to every music school and just aced every course.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, some of the technical stuff, I mean like Nile and uh and even some of later death is just like it, it's like holy shit, these are musicians, these are these guys are like students of music, they're not just into metal, they're listening to Prague, they're listening to other type, they're probably listening to jazz, I mean, they're probably listening to all kinds of crazy stuff that influences their style.
SPEAKER_00So I mean it you know, challenging music. I mean, I I think the there's like a a kind of a thing there to keep keep challenging yourself, yeah at least in some bands, like maybe not six feet under because of obvious reasons. Um but I feel like you know, at least with like a lot of like you know, death metal in terms of like how extreme it is, there's a a thing to kind of keep pushing yourself in terms of making riffs more creative, yeah, or maybe themes a little bit more complex. You know, some bands like this say the course and do like the straight-up meat and potato stuff and appreciate the fuck out of them. But I like bands that like consistently kind of like keep pushing the envelope a little bit, like in subtle ways, like sure. Little things over time.
SPEAKER_04You mentioned Ace Ventura being kind of the gateway for you. For me, what got my attention was the album covers that that was what initially drew me into death metal because I remember going to you know the local record store and going to the metal section and just looking for the most disgusting, controversial, off-the-wall stuff, and it was always the death metal albums, you know.
SPEAKER_00Logos had to be dripping with something, there's organs, yep, couldn't read it.
SPEAKER_04Like you're like, I don't know what the name of this band is, but it looks interesting, you know.
SPEAKER_00I'm just glad this cover's not a scratch and sniff.
SPEAKER_04Right. Well, and the yeah, the cannibal corpse covers mainly, those are the ones that initially really stood out to me. Uh the I remember seeing those ones going, like, I I don't know. This this band is not gonna be tame, you know. I'm not gonna bring this home and it's not gonna be yacht rock. I can tell you that. It's gonna be it's gonna be something pretty gross, disgusting, and heavy. And uh yeah, and I remember, you know, taking it home, hearing how heavy and disgusting it was, and just naturally, you know, makes you want to play that louder, so you just turn it up, and that's how I got into it. That's how I was um initiated into death metal was through through that.
SPEAKER_00I think that's how my mom got initiated to like the music I was listening to because it was cranking it. But then she saw the covers because she looked at my show, what are you actually listening to? I said, Oh, it's Campbell Corpse, and she saw the cover for Butchered at Birth. Like, there are there are zombies and hanging babies in this room. Like, yeah, no, it's pretty sick, right? Yeah, like Jesus Christ. Pretty fucking cool. I was waiting for like, look, we're going, we're going back to therapy, we're going back to therapy.
SPEAKER_04That's it. Well, I mean, yeah, it's so shocking. Some of those album covers on purpose, right? A lot of that is done purposefully. It's not, it's you know, like Alex said, we're not crazy, violent people, uh, except for that one guy in his band who lost his mind. But that's another story, right? Um, that's another story. I I was thinking about, you know, when when we think about the best death metal bands, right? Who are the who are the top, like the cream of the crop for death metal? I know you're dreading this moment, but I, you know, who are your Mount Rushmore? And if you want, I can go first if you want to let me, you know, get this out of the way.
SPEAKER_00How many are we allowing? We're only doing four.
SPEAKER_04We're doing four, but I'm gonna get out. That's a dagger. You know what? Here's the deal. Trump wants to put himself up there, so that would be five.
SPEAKER_00So if you I feel like well, I mean, uh if we're gonna put a band up there that represents him, six feet there and has be up there. Oh, I'm just kidding. No, um man, because I like for me personally, I think about like death metal as a whole, like right, you know, what bands embody like kind of like every aspect I really like. Yeah, I mean, God, and it's weird. I don't think death is gonna be on there, and it's not a slide against. I know, I know, it's it's shitty. I mean, I'm a horse. I'm surprised. Um, because there's so much that I think has evolved past that. Okay. Um I think Morbid Angel would have to be on there, uh, just for the fact I feel like they influenced, you know, not only Death Metal, but even like Black Metal too, like the heavy tremolo harmonies, that more occultish, you know, kind of like theme too. Like there's a lot of Lovecrafty and stuff in there. Um, Suffocation has to be on there. They brought up the brutality, like god man. Uh, Pierce from Within and Effigy of the Forgotten are like brutal masterpieces, like they're insanely heavy, yeah, but they're also really catchy. The breakdowns, like Legion and Verocity, like that. That breakdown pretty much influenced all of Slam. Like every every slam band heard that breakdowns like that. Our identity is this one moment on this album. Um God. Obituary, because they embody all that cool groove, like everything's very groove laden, everything's very riff laden. The riffs aren't complex, but they are heavy, they are yeah, blunt force trauma, they sound creepy and spooky. No one has a tone like Trevor Pierre has, too. I can pick out an obituary song by the first riff, like, dude, this is obituary. You can just hear his swampy, more Tom G warrior influence sound. And uh, there is none better in terms of like vocalists than John Tardy and Death Metal. He's he's my fucking favorite. Um that's three. That's three. Entombed. Um nice. I have to have entombed on there because I love all things HM2. That's pretty much where it started. Uh, Left Hand Path is a perfect album in my mind. There's not a bad song on there. The title track might be one of the best death metal songs ever written. Um, and again, that tone, that tone, that over-driven, sizzly, it almost sounds broken, but it's good. I I fucking adore it. Um shit. Well, there's your Mount Rushmore. That's that's my Mount Rushmore. Do you wait? Is that my four? Do I get a sixth?
SPEAKER_04You can have a fifth. I'm gonna let you know.
SPEAKER_00All right, well, all right. My my fifth, if someone were to etch another face in the mountain, should be FDR, but yeah, FDR would be, yeah, that's perfect. There you go. Yeah, um, honestly, I'd probably go at the gates. At the gates because the following death they perfected the formula, yeah. You know, that that that is. I mean, all right, I know like for some death metal fans that we've talked to when we rank the band, like, no, I hate Slutter of the Soul because it's the album that launched a million fucking metal core bands. Like, so it's a fucking good album.
SPEAKER_04It is a great album, and there's a lot of good metal core bands.
SPEAKER_00There's a lot of dude, I still like metalcore. We've we've reviewed two converged albums this year, and they're both awesome.
SPEAKER_04They're great, yeah. Yeah, I know them without going into too much metal core, the melodic stuff does divide people, but I love I love some of that stuff, you know.
SPEAKER_00I I like it a little bit more on the harsh side, yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_04But I you know, I grew up well, I didn't grow up, I was in high school, but when some of that kill switch engage as they lay dying stuff was coming out, and it was like really melodic but heavy, and you know, I was like, man, I like this stuff. Darkest hour darkest hour on earth, yeah, all that stuff. There's some great stuff. Yeah. Okay, my Mount Rushmore uh actually only had one crossover with yours. So I first and foremost, I I put my George Washington of Death Metal on there. I had to go with death. Okay. Um they're arguably the architects, right? I know there's debate over it, but not a single dud in their discography push the boundaries of what was possible in metal, always evolving their sound. Uh and Chuck Scholtener, I mean, the guy is the godfather, right? Of death metal. Yeah, he's he's unbelievable. I mean, some of their most iconic albums in Death Metal, Scream Bloody Gore, Leprosy, Spiritual Healing, I mean, it's just like they're it's one of those discographies. Where, yeah, I like some more than other others, but not a bad album to be found in all their albums. I know they didn't have a huge run, but not a bad, not a dud at all. So I had to put them in there for sure. And they're they're also, you know, one of those death metal bands that I gravitated to early on because of their album covers as well. I had Morbid Angel on mine as well. I think along with Death, one of the pioneers, right, of the Florida death metal scene, David Vincent. Uh in my opinion, one of my favorite vocalists in the in the genre. And a badass bass player. Three albums in a row, Altars of Madness, Blessed Are the Sick, Covenant, which we covered. Just awesome, awesome records. Brought a little Satanism to the death metal discussion. Death metal didn't have to be, just gore. Uh really laid the groundwork for extreme metal, like you mentioned with the black metal and everything. You know, very influential. I had Cannibal Corpse on there. Um, maybe not the best band ever, but certainly one of the most well-known, especially amongst casual fans, mainly due to Ace Ventura, actually, probably all due to Ace Ventura. And, you know, it really took Death Metal to other levels in terms of popularity, but also they're writing some of the most disgusting lyrics and song titles. It really helped to make that a staple, right, of the genre. It some of the best album covers in history. And uh same artist, too. Same artist, really. Yeah, all Vincent Locke. Oh wow. Consistency. No kidding. But uh, one of the only death metal bands to be actually name-checked by a politician.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_04So uh Bob Dole, right, accused Cannibal Corpse of quote, undermining the character of the nation. No, man, I think you're doing that. You know, all on your own. So those are those are my first three. My fourth one, I went with Bolt Thrower. Um I know you're you're probably kicking yourself, but no, along with death, I think one of the most consistent discographies of any band, definitely groovier at times, especially their later career. But just about every album is a punch to the face, and uh some of the best I some of the best album covers as well, different kind of album covers, but really cool, you know, Warhammer fantasy like looking history album covers, just a feast for the eyes. Yes, I have one of the best pad. Oh, that's cool.
SPEAKER_00Yep, the best Bolt Thrower album, in my opinion.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. We'll be talking about that later. But yeah, I went with Bolt Thrower just because every album I listen to, I I love them more and more. You know, the more I listen to their albums, they're just they just grow on me even more. And just some of the best riffs in in death metal.
SPEAKER_00Agreed.
SPEAKER_04Incredible.
SPEAKER_00So I mean, yeah, the entire their entire run was amazing. And the fact that they were able to transition to like a more groove-laden style without losing any of that edge. Plus, their their themes were always awesome, like they were on point with the war stuff and the horrors they're in. Um, and it's a band that I feel could reunite. Hopefully, even though I know like Memoriam is still around, I believe their next album is supposed to be their last, but after that, I know that the only reason they haven't reunited is because Martin Kitty Kearns has sadly passed, uh, their old drummer. Uh, but I feel like they could really do like a good reunion tour with a different drummer. Play MDF.
SPEAKER_04That'd be that'd be really cool. I would I would love to to get not only more music, but to see them live. Yes, that would be awesome. That'd be great.
SPEAKER_00Oh, dude. Play all of Warmaster.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, whole discography.
SPEAKER_00I'll just sit there all day.
SPEAKER_04Play everything from start to finish. Like just play it all.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let's let's see if you guys can handle that long set. Jeez.
SPEAKER_04Well, here I wanted to. I was looking at other groups, lists, and websites, and I found Loudwire's ten greatest death metal bands. I wanted to read the list, see what you think.
SPEAKER_00Loudwire's always a little iffy, right? My favorite death punch, greatest death metal band ever. Like, dear god, why is this seat still around?
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Here's their ten greatest death metal bands: Death at number one, Cannibal Corpse at number two, Suffocation at number three, Morbid Angel at number four, immolation at number five, bolt thrower, bolt throw at number six, gore guts at number seven, carcass at number eight, Vader at number nine, and autopsy at number ten. I have issue with a couple of those picks. What are your thoughts?
SPEAKER_00Alright. Um shit. Vader's a Vader's a good pick, even though I feel like you could say DSide could have been in that same spot because thrashy death metal, they're they're both like damn near actually. Well, I would say Vader has a better discography just because the contractually obligated albums from DSide.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um God. There's there's no incantation on there, which I feel like immolation and incantation are kind of similar in the sense that they are very consistent, very dingy and dark, but I feel like Im Can had that, you know, like cavernous death tomb sound that really no one else had at the time. And there are so many incantation clones, you could make an argument they could be on there too.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Well, I would where's Entombed, right? Entombed could be on there.
SPEAKER_00Dismember.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah, Dismember. I I agree with you, Vader. I'm so Vader's fine. I have no problem with Vader, but um, and maybe this is my ignorance of not knowing them well enough, but I don't know if they stand out as much. Oh I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Like I'm a big Vader fan. Okay. One thing I absolutely love about him is uh Peter's vocals because he sounds like Dr. Claw. And I absolutely love it. But in terms of that thrashy, high octane, like blasty style, like yeah, they are still on it, like they still play faster than a lot of bands like half their age, yeah, which is insane. Um, but I mean it's a very similar sound to Vader over. I'm sorry, uh Deuside overall. So they kind of occupy that same territory, like a lot of thrash metal risk, but death metal energy.
SPEAKER_04Well, and I would say Deocide A is better well known. And and and two, I would say they came before, right?
SPEAKER_00I think around the same time. Okay, Deicide's first well, all right, as Decide, their first album came out in '90. But they had them on before that, which was 87 to 90. So you can make an argument there. I think Vader's first one might come out in '92, their first demo. Okay. I'd have to really look that up. So they've both been around for a long time.
SPEAKER_04They've been around for a long time. Um my other issue, and this is gonna be I know people are not gonna like this. Uh, Carcass. Now, here's my thing. Carcass, I I actually know Carcass more for their melodic death metal. And that's what I listen to the most, and I feel like I feel like Heartwork is kind of like the album everyone brings up when they talk about Carcass.
SPEAKER_00I I mean that's my favorite.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but also like I I went at this not really thinking much about melodic death metal.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's Carcass is a weird one because every album is vastly different, which is something I I really like about them. Like Rika Petrefactions, it's gross, it's poorly recorded, yeah, but there's there's you know just a fun energy about it. Uh and then it also depends, like, because I've heard people say, like, oh, their melodic death metal era starts in necroticism. I was like, wait, no, I consider that a straight up death metal. Right. No, I do too. Yeah, but some people say, Oh no, there's enough like guitar harmonies in there to say, like, oh no, it's it's it's more melodic. It might be more melodic than Symphony is a sickness. But yeah, yeah, but I mean a lot of things are more melodic than that. And and you know, and I would argue like Symphonies of Sickness is death grind, like it's kind of half and half.
SPEAKER_04I agree, and it's a it's a brilliant album, it's one of my favorites. It's disgusting.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, like it, it's it's it's they're a tough one because like when it comes down to some of their most popular, most divisive, I guess, with some people, because I know people they're carcass fans that absolutely hate heartwork. I was like, what the fuck is wrong with you? It's not it's not brutal enough. So many great reps on that, dude. This Mortal Coil, I can listen to that song over and over and over again. Um, yeah, and even like Surgical Steel, and even the last one I thought was really good. But again, like it trapes into that melodic death metal thing, but melodic death metal, it's still death metal, it is, yeah, it is. It's death metal. See, this these weird tribes and boundaries we start to make in this genre. It was all one, and then we kind of ventured off and started experimenting, like, oh no, we're gonna argue now, aren't we?
SPEAKER_04We're gonna argue. I I don't know, melodic death metal is just taken on such a life of its own that it has it is almost like its own separate genre. The way, like um uh well, I I would say like grind core and death metal, even though people lump it all together. I think grindcore death metal are very, you know, they're not completely different, but they're different enough that I'm like, that's that's grind core, that's death metal. I can you can pick it out, you know. Yeah, um, but same with like you know, I know the sludgy, doomy, stoner-y stuff kind of blends well together, but there are things that you can kind of hear that go, okay, I feel like that's more stoner than doom, that's more sludge than doom.
SPEAKER_00You get that frequent hybridization too, like blackened death metal, right? Death doom. Yes. Um, yeah, and it gets really complicated there because some Death Doom bands, like even on the archives, which the site drives me nuts. It's a very useful resource, but they drive me nuts because like even like occasionally they'll have you know bands listed as Doom Death or Death Doom, whichever they think there's more of is the first one. I was like, dude, you're just call it Death Doom, please.
SPEAKER_04What yeah, what is with uh what is with metal fans, right? Everyone's got everything's got to be categorized down to the T, and it's gotta be like, we gotta put this right here. This is dissonant, blackened death metal with the with a touch of industrial, you know. It's like what is this? You know, come on.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I get it in terms of like an a way to describe it because if you just say, like, you know, if I were to like bring up a band and you say, Oh, what do they sound like? That's just death metal. Like, well, yeah, true, that doesn't explain enough anymore. It used to, right? Uh, because there's so again, like, there's so many like again fusion genres that happen where like, yeah, we want to kind of infuse this and this, and even within like old school death metal, like if I said like oh, it's death metal, like, oh yeah, like what, like Floridian death metal, like, yeah, you know, that's a little bit more thrashy, you know, etc. Or it's like, oh no, it's like Stockholm death metals like, oh, all right, buzz saw, so it's like the smell and tomb. It's like, oh, it's a little bit more melodic. Okay, so it's like Gothenburg, yeah. It gets like super complicated, and again, like that's true. Sometimes, again, like yeah, bands like Carcass that make it extra difficult. It's like, all right, this one is totally not like the last one. Yeah, fuck, what is this?
SPEAKER_04I don't know, but I so I would have taken Vader and Carcass possibly out and put obituary and maybe deocide or I don't know, entombed, maybe entombed.
SPEAKER_00I think entombed or dismember, like uh you know, I I I got into entombed first, so dismember has always been kind of the second one, even though I would say uh like an ever-flowing stream is almost as good as Left Hand Path. It's like it's so close, yeah. But it represents a certain type of death metal that there are a multitude of bands, both classic and current, that sound just like those foundational albums with that buzzall tone and that more raw production. Yeah, you know, same thing with again, there's a lot of bands out there that do the Floridian thing, and again, like countless incantation clones out there, too. So it it depends. Like, you know, again, there's a lot of different routes to take with it. Like, do you want to be the more creepy, like you know, uh atmospheric death metal that haunts you, or do you want to be just like no more blunt force trauma, fucking deep guttural pig growls and chromatic riffs and right, right? So many different ends of the spectrum.
SPEAKER_04Well, I think we need to talk a little bit about how this style even came to be in the first place because we're talking a lot about bands and and different types of uh of death metal, and you know, it's interesting to look back on the history of death metal and how it started, and you know, I have a couple things here. One one quote from Chuck Scholtener, uh, who we can argue about this. I don't know if you will argue, but people argue about who started it, but but Chuck is definitely considered by a lot of people to be the godfather of death metal, the guy who arguably started it, and he says he said this he said, I love the new wave of British heavy metal, bands like Maiden and Saxon, but I wanted to combine their style with the harder end with what Slayer and Venom were doing. I didn't set out to create something new, it just happened.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that sounds like 100% like something Chuck would say, but yeah, like that's you know, pretty honest, honestly. Yeah, you know, it probably came out of like they like added aggression, like let's mix these ingredients and just make it feistier. Because I know he did you know, they're the mantis demos like way back with Kamley, and then he did a little time and slaughter out of Canada, not the slaughter from the US, totally not talking about them. Um but yeah, like at least in the US, I think most of it came out of that that thrash energy, yeah. Like, especially you know, bands like Slayer. I would even make the argument that, you know, and I've heard other people make the argument, and it's an interesting one, that Hello Eights is maybe a proto death metal album instead of a thrash metal album. I could see that. And like songs like At the uh you know At Dawn They Sleep, uh Crypts of Eternity, like they they sound a little bit heavier, a little bit darker than a lot of the other stuff at the time. Yeah, you know, it didn't carry over to Rain and Blood. Rain and Blood, I'd still say is a pure thrash album. Yeah, but that album has like a different atmosphere to it, like it sounds dingier and grosser, a little bit closer to you know, probably the next band we're gonna talk about, Possessed.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's a that's yeah, exactly. They're definitely on the list here, but uh, I wanted to read another quote. This this is from Jim Welch from Earache Records. He said, Everybody always wants to push extremes to the greatest degree, and that's something that drove the death metal guys. Thrash was fast and heavy, but death metal was just faster, more extreme, and more out there. And I think that's true. You always want to up the ante, right? You always want to go to the next step. And uh, I mean, it's pretty logical that that's what death metal did. The guys, you know, and that's how it became death metal, is these guys were just influenced by Slayer, possessed, right? These bands that were heavier, but then they wanted to try to be heavier, you know, try to see if they could play faster, see if they could play uh in a more inhuman way, right? Like it which is hard to imagine playing. I mean, Slayer at the time, Slayer possessed, these are some of the heaviest bands of the 80s, so it's like, wow, you can get heavier than that. Who knew, right? Well, they proved it, they proved you can.
SPEAKER_00You know, as as equipment got better and recording got better, they were actually able to capture that sound too. And you know, it it's it's a very metal thing to want to one up, you know, the generation before he was like, Well, that that was last generation's heavy, like right. We're we're we're on a completely different level. These guys didn't even know about these breakdowns we're fucking writing now.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, and so that's where I think we can agree, right? It death metal is born for sure out of extreme metal of the 80s, and the bands that I always see mentioned, uh, one of the ones that always gets brought up is Venom.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Um, it it really seemed to inspire they really seem to inspire every extreme metal style.
SPEAKER_00Uh for me, like all right, musically, like all right, if you if you like you know kept yourself blindfolded, you never looked at a picture of Venom. You you probably with things like oh and there's like a lot of punk here, it's sneezy. Like these dudes sound like they're slamming beers in between songs, but when you look at them, like, oh wait, no, it it's kind of evil here. Now you're like starting to pay attention to the lyrics a little bit more. It's like I thought these guys are kind of partying like Motorhead, but right now they're partying with the devil.
SPEAKER_04They're partying with the devil, they're like they're taking Motorhead and you know putting 666 on it.
SPEAKER_00And uh the album covers too. Oh, great album covers. Yeah, instant, like there we go. Parents, there you go. This is what your kids are listening to.
SPEAKER_04Well, and and yeah, they they clearly I they definitely inspired death metal, but they also inspired black metal, they inspired thrash, you know. There are a lot of the thrash guys loved what they were doing. Um, so I mean they inspired a lot of of different styles of metal, but they, you know, in terms of the brutality, obviously, you know, they weren't quite brutal. They were they were fast, they were heavy, but um, you know, they the death metal guys were gonna take that extreme formula and just put it a little bit more of the blood in there, less unless you're deicide and and uh morbid angel, you're gonna keep the Satan, maybe add more to the Satan aspect.
SPEAKER_00But they took Satan to the weight room.
SPEAKER_04They took Satan to, you know, uh yeah, they took it pretty far, right? I mean, especially Deicide. Uh, we'll get to him later. But uh the other band that I always see is Slayer mentioned, you know, definitely the fastest, most satanic of the big four, you know, the big four thrash bands. And um uh I can never pronounce this guy's name. I think it's Polish. Paul from Cannibal Corpse. What's his last name? Mizerkowitz. Mizerkowitz, thank you. God, I I'm terrible with with the poll. It's Polish, right? It's I believe it's Polish. Yeah, I'm terrible with Polish. He I get it.
SPEAKER_00I get it. Danish names are the worst too.
SPEAKER_04Oh god. He claimed in an interview that Slayer was the biggest influence on him, uh, and that when he heard Dave Lombardo play on uh Rain and Blood, that he understood how he wanted to play from that moment on.
SPEAKER_00So, yeah, no, I I could see that one man I think that is in that mix too, and that they're kind of like early extreme metal as a whole, but Celtic Frost slash Hellhammer, a lot of bands were influenced by them, especially the bands that wouldn't play a little bit more groove and stuff because you know Tom Gabriel's penion for droning, you know, kind of bending, lurching riffs, like it's sent a grimy and evil, like already like more lo-fi sound too.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean, and Celtic Frost, like Venom, and and Bathory, these are bands that really you know inspired a ton of different styles of music, uh, of metal, just extreme metal that people didn't really know how to categorize. So it was like, well, what is battery? What is there was no black metal really when Bathory started. There was no uh doom metal. Well, there was doom metal, but Celtic Frost really had doomy, like chunky riffs, you know, really depressing shit. Um and Venom was just fast as hell playing this really aggressive satanic metal. So nobody really knew how to categorize any of this stuff. It was all just heavy metal. And uh then later bands were like, well, Bathery inspired me to form black metal, a black metal band, and well, Celtic Frost inspired me to form a Death Doom band, or you know, Venom inspired me to form a thrash band. So it was kind of like you know, they they inspired all these different types of people. Um couple other bands though that I see mentioned a lot, Creator.
SPEAKER_00See, Creator, I mean, all right, the German thrash bands in general, especially Creator and Sodom, a lot of people cite them in terms of being like early black metal with their first couple albums, like Sodom's Obsessed by Cruelty and Um Endless Pain by uh Creator. Like they definitely have like almost like a black and thrash sort of vibe, but like there are points in Krator's uh sound where I would say like they kind of bordered on death thrash, maybe even Sodom 2, like uh tapping the vein. Yep, like there's a lot of like death metal leaning stuff on there, yeah. And with um like Pleasure to Kill, Pleasure to Kill was playing faster than everyone else, like that's one of the fastest-paced thrash albums ever.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's why when when people are like, Oh, Slayer's like the heaviest thrash band, and I'm like, I I I don't say that just because of creator, because I know creators there, and I'm like, you could argue creator's faster and heavier than even Slayer at some point. So I don't know, it's a hard thing to say.
SPEAKER_00I mean, after a while you you you dive more into stuff, you find the heavier stuff, like you know. I used to say the same thing about Slayer too. Then I heard bands like Morbid Saint.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh Demolition Hammer. I was like, man, dude, this and then you know, Sepultura is like Beneath the Remains, like Sepultura, Rep Repulsion.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like just got to see them in MDF.
SPEAKER_04Oh, nice. Nice. So good. But yeah, like Sepultura was another band that was brought up as being an influence on Death Metal with uh Beneath the Remains, Arise. And uh the band you mentioned earlier, which I think we got to talk about because this is the biggest debate about death metal, is who started it possessed. And uh Seven Churches is um one of those albums that you could you could argue, people do argue it's the first death metal record. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I've I've been in this argument so I'm sure you have. I'm sure you have it's it's it's in every forum because I feel like there's like a like a thing where it's like wait, no one's brought up this debate in like a week. We have to we have to recirculate and get people fighting in.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I'm I'm still more of the opinion that Possessed was a bit more of a thrash band than they were a death metal band. Granted, the term death metal, the song death metal, like they they coined a term there, and it is like that heavier side of thrash where it's bordering on something different. But if you compare that uh scream bloody gore, like there's still a different sound there, like there's still something a little bit more like putrid and ugly about you know death versus possessed sounding just like fast and just insane. Yeah, I don't know. Like I'm not I'm not saying that they're not a death metal band, but I'm not saying that they are.
SPEAKER_04I I actually agree with you in in that they're definitely to me, they always sounded more like a thrash band, like a super heavy deathy thrash band. But I I don't think that they're the ones that started death metal. I just think that they were very influential on death metal, and you could argue, like with Hella Waits, maybe Seven Churches is like one of the proto death metal albums, like maybe it's like the grandfather of death metal or something, you know, it's like what helped get it going.
SPEAKER_00Maybe that's a that's a perfectly reasonable answer that a lot of people just won't accept.
SPEAKER_04Well, that's yeah, I don't get that.
SPEAKER_00The hardliners, they're out there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I I think it begins with death, uh, and the Florida death metal scene. I think that's where death metal as we know it. Um, as far as what I know based on what I researched and what I listened to, I think that it does start there. Um, you know, with Chuck and Death and Mantis actually before death.
SPEAKER_00But yeah. I mean it it's definitely in terms of like US death metal, like that's like the linchpin right there. Like you know, you could argue New York too. New York had uh has a great scene, but in terms of US death metal, that's it. And I mean, you know, some of that carried over across the pond, but for the most part, like the Florida scene had kind of its own sound, like you could kind of pick it out. It its roots were still very much in thrash metal, and you could still hear that in the sound, especially in like DSide and Monstrosity and uh Malevolent Creation, especially. Um, all those heavy machine gun slayer riffs, like they never let those things go, yeah. And uh yeah, it became like a hallmark of the sound. Like you you know, grow across the pond, they pull from different influences and such, so you never had it, which is again like it was kind of cool. Like, all right, once we heard the Swedish bands come over, like these guys sound completely different, but this is still 100% death metal, right?
SPEAKER_04Well, and it made me wonder like why Florida when I was doing uh when I was trying to figure out well what was special about Florida besides it it's a weird place and there's alligators and swamps. But um, you know, I was I was looking into it more and and David Vincent from Morbid Angel uh said, because they get approached about this, you know, these death metal guys, like what why Florida? What was in Florida that made you write such fucked up lyrics and crazy songs? And he said, Well, I don't he basically he said he didn't think there was anything special about Florida. He said, 'Quote, what happened was more sound studios was there.' It's almost like people think that there's something in the water. There's not. People romanticize all kinds of stuff. They say, Oh man, maybe I can go to a bar and I can see Morbid Angel and Obituary and Atheist and all these people at the same time. We were all friends, but it's not like you go to one place and it's like a clearinghouse for extreme music. Morris Sound Studios recorded a number of these records, Morbid Angel among them, and it just kind of got known as a hub for this kind of stuff. I don't think it has anything to do with the city of Tampa. I think it just has to do with happenstance.
SPEAKER_00I think that's totally fair right there. Like I've actually I've driven by Moore Sound Studio when uh you know, we did family vacations years ago, and I would always go to uh Tampa to go check out um when they're actually no a few of their awesome record shops. Holy shit, I spent a lot of money. Um, but yeah, like I mean it again, like I think the studio was the main hub. They did have like house bands that are there uh that were there. Like I know Nasty Savage, granted they weren't at Death Metal Band, were like a huge influence on like a lot of the younger bands, like Obituary, I think Mormon Angel, um maybe Malevolent too. No way the Malevolent might have still been in Buffalo at that point, but a lot of the Florida bands, they would go see Nasty Savage as like the old guard, like they were the the rowdy fucking metal band. I think their front man also is involved in like wrestling and shit. But that might have been like also kind of the start, too, is like all these guys came to the same shows and started talking and shit. But yeah, like it was more so. I mean, more sound brought in international stuff too. Like cancer recorded there too. Yeah, apalm.
SPEAKER_04Yep, yep. They mean the the recording, the list is uh who's who of metal, death metal. I mean, you've got here here are the list of artists they they recorded with Agent Steel, Atrocity, Atheist, Cancer, Cannibal Corpse, Cynic, Death, DSide, Demolition Hammer, Exorder, Iced Earth, Camelot, some power metal, but that's okay. Malevolent Creation, Morbid Angel, Napalm Death, Nocturnus, Obituary, Sabotage, Sepultura, Six Feet Under, and Terrorizer. Oh, and uh Brooke Hogan, Hulk Hogan's daughter.
SPEAKER_00Holy shit, there's that name.
SPEAKER_04There was a list of death metal, death metal, death metal, and then I saw Brooke Hogan, and I'm like Can't omit that one.
SPEAKER_00We gotta put it on there.
SPEAKER_04What what the hell? What why? Listen here, brother. My daughter's gonna record. He could have man, he should have tried a death metal album.
SPEAKER_00Uh I don't know. I heard the one Hulk Hogan song. Oh my god. Yeah, no, there, yeah, there we go. We know it. Never mind. It was about as good as a spaghetti.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, no, he shouldn't, he shouldn't have done anything else. Like he was fine with what he stuck to, I guess.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god.
SPEAKER_04Um, but anyways, yeah, just more sound studios, just one of those legendary recording studios. And, you know, I know a lot of bands relocated to Florida, like Cannibal Corpse, right? A lot of bands decided let's make Florida kind of our home base just because we want to record there, and that's where we're gonna, you know, make our music. Um, but yeah, I guess I guess it wasn't the weird people down there, and it wasn't well, maybe it was. I don't know. Florida's uh Florida is an interesting state. It's uh yeah, you know, I don't really know how to describe it to people. It's it's uh people from out of the country. Uh Florida is um yeah, one of our more unique states. We have a lot of states in Florida's top five most interesting states in our country.
SPEAKER_00Kind of hangs down there like America's flaccid penis. It's just kind of like Hurricane Bait, like come get me. Yeah, right. Yeah. I want to say I remember it was a I think it might have been an interview with Trevor Perez. Um, he said like when the the guys from Entombed finally made their way over and did like some US tours, and they you know came to Tampa, they they were kind of expecting because it had been you know in their mind like hyped up, it's this mythological place of old metal, everything. And there's like where's all the like the metal bars and everything? It's like odd. That's no, that's not really a thing here. I'm sorry, man. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Sorry.
SPEAKER_00Um, but you see, you watch that homeless guy fight an alligator if you like.
SPEAKER_04There you go. You said there was some good record stores though.
SPEAKER_00Oh, dude. Um, God. Um the disc uh disc exchange in Tampa.
SPEAKER_03Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_00Holy shit, I think I dropped like 300 bucks there the last time I was there. Uh a lot of cool, just like you know, rare CDs and such, like you know, even some out-of-print stuff, granted, they're a little bit pricey. Yeah, uh, and I mean I guess if you're looking to maybe see some death metal people occasionally, like members of obituary and such, wander in there and go shopping and such. Nice. Um, there's also one in Save P2, and there was also, oh my god, fucking was like iron boot records or iron something like this guy had the an incredible collection. I went in there and he had like an old school projector playing, I think it was like a 1991 or 1992 concert from Sepulture when they were like torn on a ride. Oh wow. Oh, I've I have found the right place. This is this is it.
SPEAKER_04That is awesome. Those those are rare in America. I I have to say, like, finding a good record store that's very, you know, very metal, caters to metal, is uh is hard. Like it's it's it when you find one, it's just like I can't believe I've I've found one. You know it's gonna be pricey, you know, for that reason.
SPEAKER_00But I mean everything's kind of priced these days.
SPEAKER_04That's true, that's true. Life is expensive.
SPEAKER_00But I mean, I'm I'm fortunate even in Toledo we have like three good record stores, and you know, they do cater to a lot of you know metal heads, and that's good. That's where I keep managing to find all this cool death metal.
SPEAKER_04Hey, well, speaking of albums, uh, I want to ask you, because it's it's that time, um another another list here. I want to know what your favorite death metal albums are, five, if you can. Um, I know this might be very difficult for you, but uh what are five just absolute essentials for you?
SPEAKER_00Um and Tom's left hand path. I mean, that's that's one right away I don't even have to think about. Uh that is one of the finest examples of HM2 death metal you'll ever get. It's the template. Uh it still is yet to be completely beaten. Again, the title track, one of the best death metal songs written. Period. Bitter loss is also up there, too. I love that song. Ah shit. Oh, dude. Five. Oh, this pains me. All right. Suffocations pierced from within. Uh, it might not be as brutal as effigy of the forgotten, but I feel like the songs are a little bit more nuanced. There's unbelievable fucking riff work on there. Terrence Hobbs is a beast. Granted, that one doesn't have Mike Smith on drums, but the drum performances on there is awesome. Um, it has the first song I ever heard by uh Suffocation, which is um Thrones of Blood. Amazing track, Depths of Depravity, uh God, dude. It just nothing but the finest and just brutal death metal that actually has hooks. You know, like this is the stuff that would say, like like dying fetus, kind of like listen to this and like, yeah, that you know. Um got two down, knocked two out, three more. I gotta go obituary's cause of death, like in terms of an old school death metal album that just has everything I want. The atmosphere sounds dingy, foggy, like it sounds like it came out of a swamp, and that is the perfect aesthetic. You know, I mean, I I would put leprosy in this place, but I think there are aspects on Cause of Death that have done a little bit better, namely the vocals that you know relapse that I'm sorry, that reverb y like overlapped vocal take the John Tardy did. Plus, he was way more ghastly. Like Chuck kind of laid the foundation for that vocal style. John Tardy fucking perfected it. Plus, you have James Murphy doing all the leads on there. Uh, yeah. All right. All right. That's three. Oh. Two more. I'm gonna end up leaving off like a lot of stuff I love here. I know. Oh, I mean, all right. I gotta go Covenant. Covenant is a very special album to me for Morbid Angel. Uh, that was the first time I ever thought music was evil. Um, dude, I mean, yeah, as soon as I heard um God of Emptiness, it was like, dude, this is Satan speaking to me right now. But then I got you know, the album's like, dude, this album's absolutely amazing. Probably my favorite drum performance from uh Pete Sandoval, too. Wow, maybe Foremost Fatal of the Flesh was pretty badass, too.
SPEAKER_04All right, man, that's four.
SPEAKER_00All right, the the last what do I need four or five? We have to do fifth. Five.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, one more, one more.
SPEAKER_00All right, this one, you know what? I'm gonna I'm gonna throw it on there because I do think it's just about perfect. Uh, immolation close to a world below. Ooh, yeah. Yeah, I I think that's still their finest moment, though their new album is really close. Um I heard if you haven't heard yet, it's amazing. Okay. Um, more nuanced, more technical, but again, they do things with dissonance and counter harmonies that you don't hear a lot of bands do. Like, this is another band that I would say like they have a sound, they don't need to change it. It's it's theirs, like it's almost like a more refined Morbid Angel, and you know, like without all the issues that Morbid Angel has had over the years, like they've maintained like a core lineup for a good amount of time here. And this album in particular, like it sounds evil. Uh, it has like that DSide sort of blasphemous vibe, but it feels more like less like in your face, like just shouting like I fucking don't like Jesus. Like, then we get it going. It's more nuanced with like you know, almost like existential arguments in there too. And god, dude, the riffs are incredible.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah, immolation um heavy, just uh crushingly heavy and dreary and um yeah, just like elastic riffs, yeah. Yeah. What was that album they did um in 2010? Uh it was the dark, really just it was bleak as hell. It was um Kingdom Conspiracy? No, uh the one before that.
SPEAKER_00It was The Guy on the Throne.
SPEAKER_04It's the cover of the guy on the Majesty and Decay. Yes. Oh, great. Oh my god, that album's amazing. Um yeah, Emolation, I mean, that's a band that I I want to say, like, it's been uh the la this decade that I really started listening to them. And uh I've been very impressed. Very impressed.
SPEAKER_00Um I would argue one of the most consistent bands in Death Metal. Like they're they're in that cannibal corpse category.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but but very like I mean they I feel like they're a band that um not every I mean consistent, but you know, they're like their earlier stuff is kind of not as refined, right? It's definitely it's it's heavy, but it's kind of muddier, right?
SPEAKER_00They had a weird like trajectory, like that they came in. Um their debut is I think is absolutely awesome, but it's more just strip old school death metal, like it's right doesn't have like all the you know more complicated riffs on there, it's more straightforward, and then they got booted by Roadrunner, and for a while they didn't have anything, and then they got picked up by Metal Blade and came back way more technical, way more of that dissonant stuff, and then from there it kind of really started evolving. And yeah, you'll it I I found that in like death metal circles, like immolation's the band that you know you bring up like you know, this is the fine wine of the night, like oh no, right, right, you're drinking the common swill. No, no, no, this is age perfection. You can smell the blasphemy on the cork.
SPEAKER_04Oh, geez, yeah, you can. And like you said, it's not like it's not as upfront and in your face the way Deocide or even some of Morbid Angels, Deicide was always very much like uh, you know, we're gonna piss off Christians, we're doing it on purpose, you know. And it's like immolation's like, well, we're we're we're philosophically, you know, doing it. And deicide's like the guy flipping the finger, you know, and like doing wheelies and and donuts in the parking lot, like, look at me, look at me, and immolation's like in the corner writing a poem about how Satan is the master of the world, you know, stuff like that. It's like just very uh very different types of blasphemy, but all welcome, all are welcome, right? Oh, yeah. Um, my five albums are not gonna be surprises, and they're all kind of more of that uh groovier type of uh death metal. So my first one, I have severed survival from autopsy.
SPEAKER_00OG cover too.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, OG cover, brutal, groovy, excellent old school death metal. Definitely got that doomy, they always had a doomier feel. Uh, and um, you know, just every song on this album, Chard Remains, Service for a Vacant Coffin, Gasping for Air, Ridden with Disease. I mean, come on, like the whole album from start to finish is uh just absolute heavy and and just uh that classic groovy sound that is what I love when I hear death metal.
SPEAKER_00So Chris Reifert's vocals, too. He's he's another favorite, he is so symmetrical.
SPEAKER_04Oh well, and to think he's you know, he's a drummer and a singer. Like what like a death metal drummer and singer.
SPEAKER_00I would even argue he he's he's a very punky drummer, like it's it's very aggressive, very straightforward, quick fills, and just this again, like this over-the-top delivery that is uniquely him. Like, I I don't think I've ever heard another vocalist in death metal quite like Chris Reifert.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. My number four pick, um, you I could have picked a lot of albums from this band, but I went with the one that got me into them, and also just one that has one killer hooky riff after another, and that is Bolt Thrower with those once loyal, uh their final album. But man, what a way to go out! If you're gonna go out with an album, like this was a good one to go out on. I think the kill chain alone is just uh amazing. At first light, the kill chain, the title track, um, anti-tank, right? Um canons fade. I mean, just every single song on this one is a banger and just groovy riffs. I mean, you could even argue this is more uh of like a groovy album than a than a pure death metal album, but definitely still death metal, but just man, just riff after riff that just you know sticks in your head. The riffer, the kill chain, yeah, very powerful riffing. I mean, the kill chain riff alone is just like burned into memory, you know. It's it's awesome, great stuff. My third pick was one you mentioned, and it is a classic. It's left hand path by entombed, the Swedes are here. Um, my god, an amazing record, an atmospheric record, too. The title track has this beautiful, just creepy um middle part that like the the phantasm. Yeah, it's amazing.
SPEAKER_00It's it's so those keyboards come on to like do it changes the mood, those big open chords.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it but I mean the whole like you said, the whole album drowned, revel in flesh, um, yeah, the whole the whole record. Yeah, life goes on, life goes on. Yeah, just amazing, amazing record. My number two pick is um an album. He always gets shit for this. One of your buddies. Um it's one of my favorite albums. I got Ultras of Madness from more from Morbid Angel, your buddy John, unfortunately, always gets shit for this one. Uh still, um put it at what number six was it or something?
SPEAKER_00It wasn't it was a number six, even behind domination.
SPEAKER_04I don't get it, but um to me, this is just a classic death metal album. Uh yeah, you want to talk about bringing the Satan to death metal. I mean, this is their debut, and immortal rights is on here, suffocation. Maze of Torment, the classic chapel of ghouls.
SPEAKER_00That is probably my favorite track on there.
SPEAKER_04I mean, this is just yeah, this is taking it to a whole nother level. Love the cover too with the weird faces trying to escape from hell.
SPEAKER_00Favorite Seagrave one.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, Seagrave, like he did left hand path too. Oh, yeah, okay. Rest infestering slime.
SPEAKER_04Well, actually, they there's a you can kind of tell, actually.
SPEAKER_00His early work is a little bit different than his later work, but it the early work he had like more of that biomech style, but left hand path was actually uh a real place that he kind of he took a picture of and kind of used as the framework and then added the tombstone and such. Yeah. Yeah, he he's an amazing artist.
SPEAKER_04It's uh death, like I said, death metal album covers are remarkable. My number one, though, is an album that we actually talked about, and it is Leprosy by Death. And it is just it's here not only because of how great the songs were, but it's one of those early death metal albums I got into, so there's nostalgia here. I remember seeing this album cover at the record store and just going, like, what the hell is that? You know, like this guy, it would be leprosy. This guy's got boils on his skin, he looks disgusting. I want to bring this home. And you pop it in and it's it's heavy as hell, but it's also very groovy. It every song has a hook to it. Uh the riffs are are very memorable. Um, you know, you could talk about every song on the on the album, you know, track listing here. I think the one everyone always brings up for good reason is pull the plug. It's one of the best metal songs ever written. I just think it's absolutely it's uh one of those songs that lives rent-free in your mind when you hear after you hear it. Like it's uh it's an incredible song. Yeah, the lyrics, the title track is amazing, uh open casket, um left to die. I mean, just all these songs are fantastic. And um, you know, the the debut uh Scream Bloody Gore, you could argue you could hear the thrash in there for sure. Um Leprosy was still kind of in the same vein, but they did take it a bit further. Um, they did take that uh heaviness to another level, I would argue, and also just the groove was so like present on this album. It was it it's so like I I don't know how to describe how death metal can be catchy, but to me this is a great example.
SPEAKER_00I mean they're good hooky riffs. I would say like every every trope that I think people like about death metal overalls, like death metal fans, I think is on that album. Yeah, like it just has it has the hooks, it has the atmosphere, uh the songwriting is both like kind of like again like hook later, but still complex. Like the riff work is not basic in there at all. It's it's just it's an amazing album. Probably should have been in my Mount Rush or two.
SPEAKER_04Oh, but you know, I mean there's so there's so many, and I know like, especially when you're such a huge fan of the genre, it's probably really hard to do five. I mean, you're probably like I don't you could probably pick another five next week. Yeah, completely different set and sleep well at night. You could sleep well knowing I picked five totally different ones, but you know, um, but those for me, those are the ones that stand out the most. They're the ones that I go back to the most. Um, because like I said, I tend to gravitate towards that style of death metal. Um, very tempted to put cause of death on there, very tempted to put um, I was actually tempted to put immolation on there just because I had been getting into them a lot more, but I felt like I had to put I wanted to put the albums that I was the most familiar with, the ones that I went back to more, you know, than others.
SPEAKER_00But I mean I get it too, like mine was like I wanted to kind of represent like as many of the avenues that I've gone down in death metal and like the stuff that has drawn me further into those, like you know, ImCAN again could have been on there for me just because they were my gateway in like cavernous, more doomy death metal. Yeah, it would probably be diabolical conquest because that album's amazing. Um, but yeah, like again, there's like so much within this one genre that can kind of like take you in so many different avenues.
SPEAKER_04Right. And that's the thing. Like, uh the next thing I wanted to talk about was how you would describe death metal because it you can take it in so many different avenues. So like I wanted to to kind of pick your brain about the sort of the characteristics of death metal. I know it's different based on you know what kind of death metal you're talking about, but I mean you know, some of the the more common ones, you have the old school, the Florida death metal scene, you've got Death Doom, tech death, brutal death. I mean, do you have a preferred style or is it all just kind of clumped together for you?
SPEAKER_00Well, within each one of those little subsets of death metal, I think there are absolute like dynamite bands, like true leaders and ones that push the genre further.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, as well as like a whole bunch of like you know, copycats that are still really good that you know keep it going too. Uh man, in terms of like universal characteristics though, across the board, look, I mean, I feel like you kind of have to have those grizzly vocals. Like it can't sound like a normal dude singing. It has to sound inhuman in a way.
SPEAKER_04Wait, you can't sound like uh you can't sound like Ronnie James Dio.
SPEAKER_00I mean, dude, like hearing Ronnie James Dio sing over like a suffocation song would be wild in my head. I can't quite let's not line it up. No, it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit yeah, and like I forget, I think it was like actually it might have been the front man of uh Warbringer that said death metal like purely is about being brutal, and that's it's kind of like one of the main things. It was comparing it to like black metal, which black metal's you know supposed to be about being evil, right? But you can be evil in death metal too, but brutality, I think, is a little bit more the core. Like you listen to the riff work, like you know, overall you want those big, chunky, heavy riffs. The guitar tone has to sound like it can't it can kind of sound a little bit thrashy, like you know, you have that kind of like crunch, but most of the time you want something that's a little bit dirtier and a little bit uglier. Like, yeah, it has to be ugly in some regard, and and I feel the best death metal has a discernible grit to it, like it can't be too clean overall in terms of like production or overall sound, right? Um, like there's a lot of bands that do like pristine production and you know, more power to them. I like it with like again, like a little bit of grit, like the guitars have to sound like there's like maybe mud in the strings or something.
SPEAKER_04So don't bring uh don't bring Bob Rock in to do a death metal.
SPEAKER_00No, yeah, no, no, you shouldn't have been doing those anyway. Uh metallically uh and I get like you know, there are tons of like producers out there that like a cleaner, more pristine sound. Like I mean, we're not talking about death core, but a lot of death core production is a little too big and a little too clean overall. I like something that reminds me of what it will sound like live. Like that's I want that kind of like linking point. Like a lot of my favorite death metal albums sound like they could be being played live, like yeah, Pierce from Within. There's a live quality to that, like that sounded like they were playing just a band in a room, and I love that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. David Vincent, this is what he had to say about what he thinks death metal is. He said, Death metal is a music that is boundaryless, you can be as heavy as you want, you can be as sick as you want, you can be as fast or as slow as you want. And there's some truth to that. I mean, there's there's a lot of death metal that's not fast, but it's oh yeah, brutally heavy.
SPEAKER_00Um for a while I only listened to like the faster stuff, like because I I wanted because my my roots were in thrash, and then you know, hearing like the faster, thrashier death metal bands, like, yeah, this is what I'm about. And it took me a while to appreciate the slower bands, like yeah, obviously where it was as slow as I was getting, like, and they were more mid-tempo, but then I started hearing like Death Doom bands and such, like Hooded Menace. Like, okay, this has a different vibe, like these drawn-out riffs, this yeah, almost agonized, moaning, groaning vocals. Like, all right, this is no, I I kind of like this.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I put so I made a list of things I typically associate with death metal. One was definitely the vocals being growling, not necessarily it doesn't have to be guttural, but definitely growling. Um and uh I think this is uh actually the main reason people sometimes are turned off to death metal, right? Is the vocals, not the mute, not the riffing or anything, but it's mainly the vocals.
SPEAKER_00Oh yeah. Uh God, if if I had a nickel for every time, it's like, oh, music's cool, but the vocals, like, oh god, here we go again.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, the vocals. Well, it is death metal. I mean, what do you expect?
SPEAKER_00Can you like sing a little bit?
SPEAKER_04Like, no, it's death metal is supposed to sound like a zombie. Uh blast beat drumming, right? That's pretty common. Uh tremello riffs, right? Yeah. Not always, but you know, that's something I think of a lot. And then a couple other things. One is is not always the case, but typically I think about lyrics involving violence and gore, you know, except except the occasional, you know, morbid angel, deocide, behemoth, Vader, definitely more about Satan, uh Bolt Thrower, definitely more about war. Um, but a lot of the bands, you know, I think of violence, gore, zombies, you know.
SPEAKER_03It's death.
SPEAKER_04It's death, right? And then uh the final thing I had was album covers that make a Saw movie look like a Disney cartoon. Um, like, I mean, just you gotta have an album cover that I think screams death metal. Um you need to have something, right? Like, whether it's you're going the satanic route or you're going for the gore, there needs to be something there that says this this is probably a death metal record.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I'm I think in in terms of like one of the you know genres in metal, the one that appreciates album art probably the most, yeah, might be death metal. Like, you know, black metal got super cheap and started taking like black and white polaroids in the forest, and they're like, Okay, right, but you're creepy and ghoulish. Um, but death metal, they went on this whole grand thing is like, no, see the innts are pouring out here and the demons are just ripping. It's like, okay, dude, that yeah, wow, dude, you got a lot of issues, don't you? Yeah, but there were like degrees of like sometimes it's just like hyper gory, like disgusting. Like, yeah, I have so many brutal death metal bands that just have like the most foul fucking album covers, yeah. Um, or you get ones that are like creatively just disturbing, like one I always like to bring up is Incantations, Mortal Throne of Nazarene. Oh, like I don't know what's going on. This was art done by Miran uh Kim, I believe was her name. Uh and it's like kind of like Silent Hill-ish. Yeah, like you don't know exactly why it bothers you, but it bothers you because whatever that creature in the middle is, its arms look like stomachs. Yeah, I don't know what's going on in there, but it's horrifying, it's indescribable.
SPEAKER_04Maybe I need to get the vinyl so I can look at that more closely. Also, not a scratch and sniff.
SPEAKER_00Oh god, yeah, thank god. Well, like sometimes that indescribable like kind of vibe, too. Like that more haunting, like I have to look at this and figure out why it bothers me. Thing like I like that element too. Like again, death metal is very committed to a look, a sound, an image, a vibe. It's death metal's a vibe, I guess.
SPEAKER_04It's a vibe, it's totally a vibe. You can kind of pick it out pretty easily. Oh, yeah. Like, like I I think you can pick out a lot of like this is what drives me crazy about people who say, I don't like metal. I have I have friends of mine who uh there's a guy I'm trying to get into metal, and he's like, I don't think I like metal. And I'm like, but you like Fear Factory? And he's like, Yeah, but is that metal? I'm like, Yes, that's metal. You like Deftones, you like uh he likes corn, you know, you could argue, you could argue that corn, you know that's new metal, it's new metal. Um but you know, I I said, so you like that stuff, you just don't like extreme metal. That's fine. It doesn't mean you don't like metal, you just don't like certain kinds of metal. So it's like there's this weird um I think stereotype people have of metal. It kind of is thrown under one umbrella of just like, oh, it's growling, it's heavy, it's uh blah blah blah. It's like that's not just what metal's about. You don't have to have guttural, growling death metal vocals. Um, but for death metal, you do, right? You that's that's the staple for death metal.
SPEAKER_00But like death metal is not starter metal. Like I would never say, like, oh, you're just getting a metal. All right, here you go. I need you to listen to like all of DSide. Yeah, no, like not gonna go. That's not gonna win over anyone unless you found like the one liking was like, Yeah, dude, I instantly clicked. They're like, Holy shit, that wasn't supposed to happen.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, well, yeah. It's I would never have someone start off with death metal, and I didn't start off with death metal, I grew into death metal. It was one of it's you know, it you start off with sometimes the simpler stuff, and then you you keep adding the heaviness. You're like more, feed me more, give me heavier, heavier, heavier, and you get to death.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I know uh dudes I you know pile around with on uh YouTube, uh you know, he's one of my old buddies, uh Jeff, he didn't get into death metal until he heard Opeth in like the mid to early 2000s. And it's like, yeah, I couldn't stand the guttural vocals until I heard Michael do it.
SPEAKER_03And I was like, oh, that sounds awesome.
SPEAKER_00And then from there, that was the moment. Like, okay, I'm gonna go back and listen to all this death metal again. Like, oh, it works now. There it is. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, I think album covers though, going back to that, that's a huge part of this genre. And I wanted to ask you what some of your favorites are. What are some you you showed an incantation record, but what are some others that you that you think are amazing?
SPEAKER_00I mean, oh god. I mean, well, here we're going back to the well once again, left hand path. Uh, there's a vibe there of the cool blues in there, the obelisk or tombstone that says rest infestering slime. Um, yeah, there's just instantly like a vibe there. Um I'm a big fan of all like Dan Seagrave art. Like Dan Seagrave is amazing. Like, if you went down the list of Dan Seagrave art, I mean he's done a uh one for suffocation, that's amazing. Effigy of the Forgotten. I don't know what's going on in that album cover, but it's cool.
SPEAKER_04It's on my list as well. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Spider Cyborg and an alien baby. Um, who knows? Who knows? Uh, I mean, uh, Altars of Madness, that's also him. The the weird twisting faces in there. I've always appreciated that. Uh, Michael Whalen, who did uh Calls of Death and Arise and God, what else? Uh Beneath the Remains. Shit. He's done a whole bunch. He's um he did one for Demolition Hammer, I think the epidemic of violence. Okay. Um incredible artist. Uh he does like I think a lot of like fantasy novel stuff. He's like 70 now, though. He's been doing it for a while.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_00Um Brad Moore, uh, really interesting artist because he has this style where it like a it feels like a lot of the things on the cover are fungus. Umor of infinite forms. If you've ever seen that album cover with its weird kind of like cordyceps infected bodies in that, okay. Um, yeah, he he's done a lot of stuff. He's uh got Morpheus descends. Um, I think uh this new band Nuclear Tomb, I think that came out and recently had his artwork. He's done a lot of crazy stuff. He has a very distinct style, though. It's that you know weird colorful but fungusy sort of look to his art. Yeah, I dig the hell out of that too. I was gonna say, um, oh shit. Uh God, who did uh um Leprosy. God, why can't I think of his name? Oh, he did all the Megadeth covers.
SPEAKER_04Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Um album. Rev Revka.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, Refka.
SPEAKER_03Here it is.
SPEAKER_00I would say him, but he didn't do too many death metal ones. He was mostly a thrash guy. He's actually more of a punk fan overall, but I like his stuff though. I think he reuses a lot of the same tropes. Um God, what there was another one I was gonna bring up that was an absolutely amazing artist, and I can't think of it right now. Damn. Uh man, there's a lot. Oh, uh uh cantor. He's does a lot of newer stuff. Uh new uh immolation has uh an amazing painting from him on it. A lot of like almost kind of like Baroque, kind of like old school, uh not maybe not broke one, I'm thinking um Rubens. Oh yeah, yeah. Except he it looks like he has like a it's it's like an oil painting style where you can kind of tell like each little dot on there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, there's a lot of fantastic artists out there. I I'm I'm such a hound for album art. Like oh yeah, bad uh bad bad album art will piss me off. Like one seems like, dude, seriously, like this was what else was in contention? Was everything else worse than this?
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I get really mad too, especially you know, with vinyl because it's so large, and with vinyl being as expensive as it is, it really pisses me off when an artist goes half-assed on the vinyl, and I'm just like, you gotta be fucking kidding me. I'm spending $30 for this. Like the music better be good, is all I can say.
SPEAKER_00Monstrosities Millennium, their second album with the the screensaver, Easter eggs, and a fucking old school Mortal Kombat backdrop is the cheapest looking thing I think I've ever seen. Jesus, that's awful. That's horrible. And in Wade, no way embodies the album because the album's amazing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. My god, put a little effort into it.
unknownCome on.
SPEAKER_00And you know, I'm I'm I'm gonna get enough slight soapbox here. No more AI art. That's cheap.
SPEAKER_04Oh god, no, you please soapbox all you want.
SPEAKER_00That yeah, yeah, that's there are tons of talented artists there, and you want people to pay you for your art. Why the hell wouldn't you want to pay someone for their art? Don't fucking cheat. Don't get fucking AI art. It's not art.
SPEAKER_04Stop with the AI art.
SPEAKER_00My yeah, you're stealing from artists that way, yeah. In a way, like it's just going on, it's just sampling little nuggets of art all across the fucking internet and making a composite.
SPEAKER_04So my album covers, I had five, and this album is brought up every time I open my mouth. But Leprosy is one of those album covers that I I love, and it it was one of the first, like I said before, the ones that really caught my attention with its weird, like pinkish kind of you know, it's a weird album cover, it's a weird color. It's the baby's pink album ever. Yeah, it's pink. It's like I don't even know if this is on Earth, it looks like it might be on Mars or something or some planet, but really weird album cover. Uh, Warmaster by Bolt Thrower. I mean, it's like this Conan, the barbarian dude with his gigantic sword. I mean, it's just it's remarkable. It's a it's a fantastic album cover. It looks so yeah, it just looks so like Conan or or I don't know, some fan some B fantasy movie from like the 80s that's got a lot of gore in it. No, a hundred percent. I uh I also had F effigy of the Forgotten because I don't know what the hell's going on with that suffocation album cover, but holy shit, it's um you know, I when I look at it, I'm just kind of like trying to pick everything out and just be like, what is that? What is that? What kind of machine is that? What is that? An alien, like what the hell is going on here?
SPEAKER_00You're not sure, like it looks like it's partially organic, but it's also a machine, and then there's the little creature in there too.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Remind me of something you would fight in like R-type.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's just it's one of the most bizarre album covers, but for that reason it's uh it's one of the best. And I had Mental Funeral by Autopsy. It reminds me of John Carpenter's the thing. Yes, and I'm just thinking that's yeah, well, I I guarantee you that's probably where they got the idea because I just was looking at that going like that's straight out of the thing. That's just uh like the creature when when it absorbs the dogs. In the beginning. And then I had to have Cannibal Corpse on here. And I was kind of split between two albums. The Tomb of the Mutilated, which I mean that was the first one they censored, too. Yeah, I mean, it's you you've got uh two corpses performing oral sex uh here, so it's like um you know, how can you not love that? I mean, it's like, hey, you know, they died doing what they love. I don't know like what's going on.
SPEAKER_00This the censorship part on there when they talked about the censorship, and so it was the first one they had to do a alternate cover for because everything up to that point was fine. Like, oh baby's hanging on fucking meat hooks, blah blah. Whoa, hold on. This is kind of sexy. Yeah, we're gonna have to do something different here. It's turning Bob Dole on.
SPEAKER_04Like you know, Bob's Bob's getting movement in places he hasn't had movement in a while. Um, that one or an album that I wouldn't say is one of their best albums, but definitely one that caught my attention early on, The Wretched Spawn.
SPEAKER_00Um I mean, I like that one that has what's the fucking song that it was like almost too difficult to play.
SPEAKER_01Oh fuck.
SPEAKER_00But that out that album cover, well that may be like one of the goriest ones they ever did.
SPEAKER_04It's got something coming out of it's like a chest burster from Alien, but then something's coming out of the you know, crotch region as well. Uh not really sure what's going on there.
SPEAKER_00The old hoo-ha, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Little uh getting a yeah, it's uh looks painful. Looked painful for the for the lady. Um hopefully she was uh not alive.
SPEAKER_00Oh, which one was uh decency defiled. Some of the most complex riffs I think they've ever written. They said it was a pain in the ass to play live.
SPEAKER_04But those those are just some of the the albums that stand out to me. Cannibal Corpse is largely because you you walk into the record store and those are um those are some of the album covers that instantly catch your attention.
SPEAKER_00I mean, as it should, like, you know, you you not that you I think your eyes need to be drawn to a cannibal corpse album for you to like pick it up at this point, like oh there, there it is. Yep, nope, thing horrible things are happening. All right, I'll just go ahead and get this. But I know like artwork matters because you kind of have to again match the vibe, you know, like it's it's all part of the aesthetic. Yeah, like I I if I look at the album and I feel like it sounds like the album cover looked like perfect, you matched up. This is wonderful.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. What's the we've been talking a lot about these older bands, this old school style. Uh, what's the current status of death metal?
SPEAKER_00Well, if you'd asked me like God a few years ago, like I would say like circa uh 2017-2018, I would say there was a huge resurgence in like old school death metal. Like and and tomb mold was kind of one of those bands that jumped out in front from Canada, Canada. They because up to that point, I felt like a lot of death metal was getting increasingly more modern, more clean production in terms of sound. These guys came back and sounded like they they had their shit done by like Scott Burns. That was kind of removed unless you were an older band, and then from there it was just a landslide of like just old school new, you know, death metal bands. Like they just embody the old sound like uh witch vomit, witch vomit sounds a lot like uh autopsy, um mortiferum. Uh there's a whole bunch, like the whole Pacific coast, like Portland, Northern California, and Washington, like they all have a ton of these old gritty bands that sound like they came out in the 90s, but are like, oh no, we just got together in like you know 2016, like super young cats that like you know, instead of like buying anything that you know was relatively new, they went to the Use bin and found like old school fucking like incantation albums and shit.
SPEAKER_04So it came it came back around.
SPEAKER_00It it kind of did, maybe to a point where there's like a little bit like much in the way of uh like oversaturation. Like there's a lot of death metal bands. Like I've made the joke several times. Like, if you're in Portland, you could throw a rock in any direction and probably fucking hit a you know, a bunch of kids working on a death metal demo. Then the best thing you should do in that situation is at least buy their demo because you hit them with a rock, right?
SPEAKER_04Be nice, come on.
SPEAKER_00But uh, yeah, it's it's it's kind of returned back to its roots. I mean, there's still some bands out there doing like some more progressive stuff and more like technical stuff, but I feel like at its core, like death metal's kind of got its grizzled core back together, yeah. But you could argue there's an oversaturation of the market, like we go over. I mean, I I love death metal, but I like taking a break from it every now and then because after a while, I was like, okay, this is like the third band in a row that sounded like incantation. I'm running out of shit to say, yeah. Yeah, I'm gonna end up name-dropping incantation and more of an angel all weekend.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. I death metal for me was alive and well from what I saw. Um, oh yeah, very no shortage of bands, and old guys still going strong, like um Cannibal Corpse still going strong, um, Immolation still going strong, um, autopsy, their last few albums have been really good.
SPEAKER_00Their last two are fantastic, yeah.
SPEAKER_04And whether or not you like their albums, bands like Deuside are still out there, they're still doing their thing. Um, Glenn Benton, of course, is uh one of the characters. We haven't really mentioned him too much, but um uh just you want to talk about a character in death metal, just one of the one of those guys.
SPEAKER_00He was outspoken, uh, the face of it. Actually, oddly enough, today, because I haven't been like oddly enough before this, I haven't been listening to like a ton of death metal. I've been like hooked on vow and listening to a lot of sludge. Okay. Um, but I was listening to the Amon demos uh before DSI was DSI. It was like, holy shit, they were fucking tight from the start. Like every song on there made the self-titled, but the whole story of Glenn pretty much bursting his way into Monty Connor's office at Roadweather and just put like slamming his demo down in his desk, like fucking sign us. I was like, All right, dude, calm down. Like the whole burning the upside down cross, um, songs he's not allowed to play still, I guess. Like, I think in California, he's he still might not be able to play Kill the Christian. And people actually it was um was it stencil redemption, the DVD for that. Like someone in the crowd yells, like, play kill the Christian, it's like can't do that, I'll get fucking arrested. Jeez, and he's as warm as ever on stage, too. Like, he's he's actually like a good guy, he's kind of warmed up a little bit in terms of interviews, sure for a while, yeah. He seemed kind of standoffish, yeah. But like if something's bugging him, he's like, No, this no, uh fix it.
SPEAKER_04Um, him and David Vincent, very intimidating guys. David Vincent, though, seems cool, but he just has a a way about him that I'm just like, this guy, I don't want to be on his bad side. Like this guy, Glenn Benton, Corpse Grind, Corpse Grinder, from what I know, is a is a nice guy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, he's a legit nice dude.
SPEAKER_04But I wouldn't want to piss him off. Um, because the neck would probably break me in half.
SPEAKER_00He's he's trimmed down too. Like he's oh really, yeah. Oh, he hasn't lost any neck.
SPEAKER_04Neck neck hasn't gone down at all. Oh, that neck power is all there. That neck, that neck could chop a redwood tree in half.
SPEAKER_00Put like blades in the end of the hair, like, all right, swing away, man.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you got this. Oh my god. But um, no, Glenn is definitely one of those just I don't even know how to describe him.
SPEAKER_00Anyone who he's you know, like he doesn't like you know, like jump around or move around a lot on stage. He's he plants himself like an oak, and he he still has like every bit of vocal prowess he did in the past, like those high screens are still insane. Uh his low brows are awesome. And honestly, like again, like being a little bit more open in interviews, like hearing him talk about stuff, like you know, DSide signed a seven album contract, and he said at the time was like, Oh, it's best move of my fucking life. He said, Buy album two, like, fuck, what have I done?
SPEAKER_04Seven. My god.
SPEAKER_00So, you know, that's what like the last one was like it was just a one and done thing for that label. And saying we'll resign with them if we like what happened there, but I don't want to be trapped by labels anymore. Yeah, I've done that, it sucked. But yeah, uh he's he's he's become more interesting in these later years, honestly.
SPEAKER_04All right, I'll have to check out some of his interviews because I saw some kind of circulating online and I was wondering the Garza podcast one he did before the last album came out.
SPEAKER_00That's a good one.
SPEAKER_04Okay, I'll check that one out. All right, final thing I want to talk to you about is songs. Oh shit. And um I I made a list of 10 songs that I really enjoy from Death Metal, and uh I wanted to combine different things. I I I picked most of these are bands that have been around for a while and they're classic bands, but I I put in a couple that are more recent, or at least one that's more recent that I really liked. I wanted to try to vary it up a little bit, but I ended up going back to mostly the classic uh death metal bands because that's what I I love. I love going back to that. So um, why don't you you want to give me a few? What are some of your favorite death metal songs?
SPEAKER_00Well, well, let's let's get a very obvious one out of the way because we've brought it up like every time for every every thing about death metal, yeah, left hand path. Okay, uh one of the greatest songs in death metal ever written. I think I've already said that pretty established. Um God, I know I know it's the cliche one, but hammer smash face still goes as hard as fucking ever. Yep. Ooh shit. Infecting the Crips, uh suffocation. Um Lost Passion by immolation. Oh my god. I'm gonna have a death song in there, and I just gotta figure out which one that's the edge of it. Yeah. I'll probably go again stereotypical, but it's a great song. Pull the plug.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Halfway there, halfway there.
SPEAKER_00God. Chopped in half by obituary. One of my favorite fucking songs ever. Um to shit. Um, hold on here. I have to I can't I don't remember the title of it. You're good. You're good. I know the band, I just can't remember the damn title because it's like the best song in the album. Okay, yeah. The last track on Diabolical Conquest by Incantation, Unto Infinite Twilight Slash, what is it, Majestic uh Majesty of Infernal Damnation.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that's a mouthful. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's a beast of a song, though. It's absolutely amazing.
SPEAKER_04Alright. Seven.
unknownGod.
SPEAKER_00Alright. I don't want to put any death rash in there because I feel like I would just put in like all of Beneath the remains.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um Deuside's dead by dawn.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh fuck. I might have shit. I don't want to double definate advance, but now I'm thinking like, fuck, dude, there's really good ones on Legion, too. Oh no, it's killing me. Um, uh Bull Thrower Cenotaph. Okay. Oh, nice. Oh we got one more, two more.
SPEAKER_04One more. One more.
SPEAKER_00One more. Oh my god.
SPEAKER_04One more.
SPEAKER_00Oh, do I do Morbid Angel Dawn of the Angry? Oh, okay. Deeper, deeper cut. That's honestly in terms of like catchiest tremolo riffs ever, that might be it. That that that song lives rent-free in my head at all times. I heard them warm up doing the Blast Messel. I am morbid. It was like, fuck, play the rest of the song, otherwise I'm gonna die.
SPEAKER_04Not bad. You made it through. You made it through. All right. Here are my 10, and I would say most of these are pretty common death metal songs. There's only a couple that maybe aren't as as well known or as common. Um my number for number 10, I have uh Seeds of the Suffering by Suffocation. Absolutely brutal, yet oddly catchy. Uh just very I remember listening to this going, oh, this is so fucking brutal. And then it got catchy. There was like a breakdown, and I was like, wait a minute, they're including some hooks here. Like it was uh it was very, very um pleasing to hear something so brutal be that accessible uh at the same time.
SPEAKER_00Mike Smith's drum work. Uh oh I I love that he had a very distinct blasty thing, like he was doing the full extension blast. So like he sounded like he was trying to hammer his snare like through the center of the earth. Oh, love that.
SPEAKER_04It's a great song. Number nine. Um, again, I was listening to a lot of death metal. I've been listening to a lot of death metal over the years, especially um recently. But um, this song really, I don't know why. Um, I just really enjoyed this song, So You Die by Bloodbath. Uh yeah, groovy, very groovy. Um, and it kind of reminded me of like an old school sound. Um, even though I think they're what they're from the late 90s, early 2000s or something. Early 2000s. Early 2000s.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I I was into it. I don't know how well regarded they are in the death metal world. Oh, Bloodbath?
SPEAKER_00Yeah. One of the most respected super groups in death metal.
SPEAKER_04Okay. I didn't know, I just heard that song and I was like, I love this song.
SPEAKER_00Oh, listen to the song Eaten. My God. Okay. That that's that's a that's a fist-pumping anthem. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_04This one, I don't know, it was just very groovy. It caught my attention. I wanted to include something that maybe wouldn't be mentioned. Number eight is a more recent song. Um, this band, I think I actually heard you review this band, uh, Sivirus. Oh the song Shrouded in Crystals. Yes. Oh my god, epic, and the atmosphere was uh incredible. I I was just it's like a seven-minute song, uh seven-minute long track, but man, it was just like I was listening to this going, like, this is really some of the most like like masterpiece level death metal I've heard in a while.
SPEAKER_00Um little bit of like peace-filled death doom in there too. I love uh like my dying bride and paradise lost. Uh, we saw those guys in 2025 at MDF, one of the best sets, like they crushed.
SPEAKER_04I bet. I just the whole album I was very impressed by. And I think, you know, I think I actually heard about it through you um because I think I was watching your end of the year list or something. I think it made your list, right? Yep. Um I think I I had seen the album cover in stores, and I was like, that looks cool. You know, I didn't know it was death metal. It kind of I I thought maybe it could be a cross, like it could be like black and death or something, but or doomy death. I didn't know what it was, but I remember seeing you review it and then it made your list. I'm like, I'm gonna check it out. And I'm glad I did because it was great. Um number seven, I have Immolation with a glorious epic. Uh Depressing, doomy, heavy, just absolutely heavy. Yeah, love that whole album. Um, yep, yep, dude.
SPEAKER_00That's one of the catchiest odd riffs ever.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it was really weird.
SPEAKER_00I remember listening to it going, this is an odd, this is an odd track, you know, but then it just got heavy and just oh my god, it was just like Steve Shatley, their drummer, his ability to syncopate those weird off-time riffs, and he incorporates fills within those drum patterns that are I he that band is just absolutely amazing. If you ever get a chance to see him live, uh you're gonna be blown away.
SPEAKER_04Oh, I I plan on it. If they I don't know when they're um I mean they have that new album that came out. Did they tour yet? Or they on tour?
SPEAKER_00Oh no, they did a big tour with uh uh Behemoth, okay, DSide, and Rod in Christ.
SPEAKER_04I missed it.
SPEAKER_00Yep, same year. All right, I was saving up money for MDF.
SPEAKER_04Well, maybe maybe next time, maybe I'll catch them. But yeah, like love, love that song, that album. Uh tremendous. Number six, hammer sma Hammer Smash Face, Cannibal Corpse. It's iconic, it's classic, the breakdown, uh fucking amazing. It's just great.
SPEAKER_00I love every second of that song.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it's just one of those songs that uh every time you hear it, you're just like, I I remember now why I like this. You know, it's it's great. Uh number four, or no, sorry, number five, the kill chain by Bolt Thrower, so damn catchy. Uh the riffs, love it. Number four, chopped in half, obituary, classic, old school. I mean, it's just incredible, incredibly heavy. Number three, left hand path, entombed. Awesome song. You've mentioned it many times. We don't, you know, a couple just just like twice, I think. Only twice. I barely know this band. Maybe, maybe once or twice. Uh number two, I have Chapel of Ghouls by Morbid Angel, heavy as hell, blasphemous, you know, groovy. And uh my number one, no surprise, it is pull the pluck by death, a song that's maybe been mentioned once or twice.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, just uh the cliche police might come and pick us up at our homes any moment now for that one and a couple others. But I mean, there's a reason though. There's a reason. There's a reason. They're great songs.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah. I mean, they're all these I could have probably picked a couple more or swapped them out, but those are the ones that I I made for this list, and and um just all f all ten of those stand out to me, and I can listen to those anytime. And yeah, to me, those are those are my favorite death metal songs, at least today. For today, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That's the most fair thing right there, because it might change tomorrow. I mean, all right, you might left hand path is never leaving my list ever. Yeah, but yeah, like there's there's so much that I also like left out stuff that kind of bordered on other genres, like no death crying, no black and death metal, really.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00That those could be separate lists on their own. But yeah, that those are solid playlists. We could jam this playlist with it.
SPEAKER_04We could do it, we could do it.
SPEAKER_00I could pull on severus too. I fucking love that.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I I was just very blown away like the first time I heard it. So um, shout out to some of the newer bands, you know. Like you mentioned Tomb Mold. Oh, Tom Mold is um do you have any others before we before we wrap up? Do you have any other bands you think people should listen to that are that are newer that really impress you?
SPEAKER_00In terms I'm I'm gonna actually go by what we've been going over this year. See if we have any new ones here, because I know there have been. Um, I mean, if you're looking for something absolutely like kind of grimy and old school and more I don't know if I call it brutal. It's it's got like the the bullfrog vocals, but it's not uh it's not like brutal death metal like dying fetus or anything, but uh cryptworm. Okay. Pretty gross band. Uh, we went over a band called Ectovoid this year that has just a fierce old school sound, like very incantation-esque. Um, let's see. I mean, if you like things a little bit more on the grindy side of death metal, uh exhumed is always a good time. A lot of thrashy riffs in there. Uh fossilization from Brazil.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00Oh my god. We saw these guys at MDF again, once again, another killer band, but very dissonant, very atmospheric, very much along the lines of incantation and immolation, a lot of morbid angel. Uh it absolutely gross. Nice. Uh the new Funer Brong is really good. I mean, there's there's quite a bit that has come out a lot. Gut void from Canada.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Um, a little bit more progressive, I would say. Like, there's a lot more interesting like riff changes and atmospheric twisting, noodling vibes. It's kind of, I think it's also very Lovecraft, too. That also helps. Got it, got it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, that does help very much so. Right on, right on. Yeah. Death metal is is just one of those genres that won't go away. Oh no, it won't go away.
SPEAKER_00It's it's entrenched in in music now.
SPEAKER_04It is. It's it's not like you can argue it's had uh better years than others, but it is it is one of those types of metal that's just here to stay. Uh, and I'm sure that some people are puking their guts out because of that. Uh but that's okay.
SPEAKER_00And it and it's fan base kept spraying the word and it didn't let up at all.
SPEAKER_04So yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Well, let's spin the wheel. We're gonna see what we get. All right. You ready? Here we go. Oh, I'm um here we go. Ooh, it is gothic metal. Gothic metal.
SPEAKER_00Man. Alright. I gotta I mean it's definitely gonna be a lot of typo negative.
SPEAKER_04Uh guys, gothic metal. Um, definitely one of my top five uh types of metal. Just because like goth music in general um is arguably I like more than metal. So to have gothic metal, it's like a match made in heaven for me. So I I I already have we can we do this here. Oh, we can do this. Oh, let's do it. We're doing gothic metal.
SPEAKER_00We might end up talking about a lot a lot of the same bands, but I think we did that here anyway.
SPEAKER_04So we did. But type typo negative is gonna be, you know.
SPEAKER_00Oh, dude, the wonderful teenage years.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Uh all right. Gothic metal. Okay, so everyone, we're doing gothic metal next. Again, check out Thralls of Metal. I'm not gonna say that every time because you're gonna be on here a number of times, but um, guys, check them out because uh they uh the reason I listen to Siveris. So there you go.
SPEAKER_00And Siverus is awesome.
SPEAKER_04That's true. All right, guys, we'll catch you next time.