The Broken Record Player Podcast
The Broken Record Player Podcast
Genres of Metal: Episode 2-Gothic Metal
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We're back with another episode on metal, this time Necrotic Nick (Thralls of Metal) and I dive into the dark, romantic, and ethereal world of Gothic Metal! We go over the history, our favorite albums/artists/songs, and where the genre is today! So grab some red wine or absinthe, and light the candles!
Hello everybody. Thank you once again for listening to the Broken Record Player podcast. As you probably know, we are diving into the many different subgenres of metal in these episodes. Last month we did death metal. This month we are doing gothic metal. My partner in crime for these episodes is Necrotic Nick from the YouTube channel Thralls of Metal. Go check them out if you like metal and if you want to hear them review the latest metal albums, they are awesome guys. We got a great episode here for you on Gothic Metal, one of the more accessible and melodic forms of metal, but still one of the darkest. Whether you're talking about the beauty and the beast vocals of bands like Theater of Tragedy and Draconian, the dreary, doomy atmosphere of Paradise Lost and Typo Negative, or the haunting screams of Cradle of Filth, Gothic Metal has a lot to offer. So let's pass through the cemetery gates as we dive into Gothic Metal on this episode of the Broken Record Player Podcast. Back with me again is Necrotic Nick from Thralls of Metal. Hello, hello. How's it going, man? Welcome again. This is this is gonna be fun.
SPEAKER_00I was looking forward to this like all month long.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, man. This is gonna be good. Uh last week we went over death metal, and this week we're going over a completely different type of metal, gothic metal, right? Very moody, very uh romantic at times, uh, very catchy as well. Like it's one of the most catchy forms of metal, I think. Like it can draw people in that usually wouldn't be into metal. Like it's it's definitely able to cross over a bit more.
SPEAKER_00It's got that romanticized sound. Like it's it's sexy dark metal, let's be honest. It's yeah, candelabras, vampires. You know, with death metal, it's like rotted zombies and guts and shit. Now, this just is like, oh hold on, clean yourself up, get your act together. Yeah, we're we're we're trying to get like you know a little bit of sexual energy in this place. Yeah, we need a little and two.
SPEAKER_01We need a little Anne Rice, you know, we need a little uh Bram Stoker. Come on, dress dress up for it, right? Yeah. Um I remember last episode I I started off the episode with a quote from you know the a band. I had lyrics and it was from Autopsy, you guessed it correctly. This week I've got three because uh I couldn't pick one because there were just so many good ones. So I'm just gonna read them and here we go. Because you you'll see why these to me are great examples of gothic metal. The church bells chimed, devoid of mind, an age of grief, a world unkind. They spoke her name in hushed refrain, a cursed litany of pain.
unknownOh god.
SPEAKER_01It's not cradle of filth, is it? Yeah, yeah, it is Cradle of Filth. Son of a bitch. It's her it's her ghost in the fog. Holy shit, man.
SPEAKER_00I don't I don't even like Cradle of Filth. There's no Cradle of Filth on my list, just because Danny Phil's vocals will probably get to that. We'll get to that. But uh he does have a way in terms of like the gothic prose. Like he he loves the graveyards and the vampires and the ghosts and the ghouls and women doing other things with women. Uh something it's illustrated in like every cover t-shirt, whatever. Yes. But I mean, he does get it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh 100%. And we'll we'll get into them for sure. Here's the second one I had black velvet, leathered skin, so wet, I'll let you enter in. I'll love you to death. I'll love you to death.
SPEAKER_00I mean, that's yeah, yeah. You might you might have telegraphed it there with your shirt. Yeah, I'm wearing I'm wearing the shirt here. Typo, we're gonna talk about typo. There might be some serious conversations about typo because typo might have been like the gateway in for a lot of people in terms of gothic metal specifically.
SPEAKER_01Yes, definitely. And so perfect for typo. They they really brought that sexyness to it. So wet, I'll let you enter in. I mean, it's like, yeah, you know, that's Peter Steel, you know, that's totally Peter Steele.
SPEAKER_00I mean, he he was eight feet of fucking sexy to a lot of women.
SPEAKER_01Oh god, he's something else. And finally, this one probably not as well known as the first two, but still a staple in the in the genre. Oh, come, let us drown our sorrows in a shallow stream of misbelief. Let the winds of the north carry my last sigh. Oof.
SPEAKER_02Oh shit.
SPEAKER_00I don't know if I know that one. Uh I mean, my other guess in terms of like gothic metal, or at least definitely in that realm, would be Paradise Lost.
SPEAKER_01It's definitely it's close. It was Theater of Tragedy, another another important 90s gothic metal band. But yeah, like Paradise Lost and Theater of Tragedy both had that like sorrowful, poetic, you know, dreary kind of vibe going for them. And and yeah, like both of them were, I believe, yeah, they were both around kind of the same time, too.
SPEAKER_00So I mean, that was that was one almost almost kind of separate. Like, if if we were to do like Death Doom, I would also say the Paradise Lost Blocks in there. But the Peace Phil 4 or Peace Phil 3, depending on who you talk to, that whole like uh group of bands had that gothic energy combined with like that, you know, kind of more death metal heaviness that you know they they have a very specific sound. Like you bring up, you know, peaceful death tombs, like, oh yeah, there's already like four bands I'm thinking of.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, Gothic Metal, how did you I mean, do you love Gothic Metal? And if you so, how did you get into Gothic Metal? Like, what is it about it that drew you in?
SPEAKER_00I mean, well, for me, in terms of getting into Gothic Metal, uh, one specific album, typo negatives, bloody kisses, may or may not have uh bought it because of the album cover. It's just something you know kind of sexy about that. But um, I remember this song, Black Number One, being on the radio all the time, and it just had this like really cool sound, the breathy vocals, that really fuzzy, just interesting sounding bass. And it kind of took me back to like watching MTV as a kid and seeing bands like The Cure and uh Sisters of Mercy. It's like this is like that, but heavier, darker. It's a little bit more I don't know, like muscly and tough at points, but it still had that, you know, kind of like romanticized, shimmering sound. Like, I love the guitar work on uh typo negative albums. Kenny had well still has like quite a sound to his guitars. They shimmer, they're beautiful. And if you take off a lot of his distortion, you have these really beautiful melodies. Like a lot of the stuff that he plays, it's not necessarily the most metallic riff, but it's the presentation, it's that you know, that layer of distortion, that shimmery, reverb-y sound, and then Josh Silver's keys. Like there was something about all that that came together that was like, okay, this is pretty cool. I got a chance to see him in '97, too. Like pretty much height, you know, uh typo negative, and it was like, dude, this there's something about this band that no other band is quite capturing right now. And they're they're kind of on this big, miserable fucking gothic island, and they seem like they kind of love it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I'm jealous. I am jealous. I uh twice. Oh fuck.
SPEAKER_00I saw I'm actually on World Coming Down too. Oh god, that album.
SPEAKER_01That's a heavy album. I I passed up an opportunity to see them in like a couple years before he died. Oh, Dead Again had come out, and uh they were touring with I think Testament, Motorhead, and Judas Priest, and I did not go. And to this day, I am punching myself for that. I am so mad at myself for that. Um it was it was the heyday of me, it was like at the height of me going to concerts, and it because I was um, you know, I actually had money for the first time, I could afford it. So it was like, you know, I was actually going to shows at that time and I did not go. So I'm very, very mad about that one.
SPEAKER_00But I mean, you know, you might be able to live vicariously through some of my stories because I'll probably come back to how amazing those sets are.
SPEAKER_01There you go. Yeah, I was there kind of because of you, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00You've got to hear some carnivore songs too.
SPEAKER_01Okay, all right. But no, gothic metal for me, it might be my favorite subgenre of metal. I love it that much. It's um, I love the variety to it, but I'm also a sucker for melody, for atmosphere, for dark music, so it's kind of just natural that I would gravitate towards it. And I'm also just a huge fan of goth music in general, like The Cure, Susie and the Banshees, Bauhaus, uh, Sisters of Mercy, all that's Christian Death, like all that stuff. Huge fan of it. Um, and I've been a fan since high school, so it's just I've always loved that kind of music. But um, I got into Gothic metal first before I got into goth rock. And uh it's kind of funny because like I got into gothic music largely through the the bands that people say you shouldn't get into first, the Mall Goth, the hot topic bands, right? So I got into like bands like Hym and uh you know Marilyn Manson, of course, the 69 Eyes and uh Cradle of Filth. So those were those were some of the bands I first got into because I went I remember going into Hot Topic back when the font looked like it was from Dracula and everything. And I used to go in there going, Oh shit, this place is cool. And you know, the shirts were all there, the posters were there, they used to sell vinyl and CDs back in the day, and I remember seeing all that stuff and just being really into it. And then, of course, um the two but the two gothics besides Cradle of Filth, the two other gothic metal bands that really got me into it. Um, one was Lacuna Coil, because of uh, let's be honest, Christina Scabia, because holy shit, I had a huge crush on her. She's right, she was like she was like the it girl for metal in the 2000s, right? She was like on all the magazine covers. I remember her being at Ozfest, and um, I saw them at Ozfest, and that's how you know I got into them. But uh yeah, Comalys came out, huge album, you know, for them. And then of course, yeah, typo negative. Typo negative made me truly fall in love with this, and it was through them that I, you know, went into the other bands like The Gathering and Theater of Tragedy and Draconian, blah blah blah, you know, all those bands. And yeah, Peter Steele, that voice, uh, the bit the ability to combine melody with the darkness. It was just the kind of music I couldn't get enough of. So it was just like, yeah, this is this is my kind of uh music. It's heavy lyrically and sonically. It's just uh it's it's heavy, it's just music.
SPEAKER_00It was meant for metal, like you know, the two were eventually going to meet at some point because they both embrace the darker side of metal. They're they're both dark, they just have a different way of approaching it. I think all we did was just like add a little bit of extra distortion and some chuggy arrests right now and then it's like boom. Yeah, we didn't change very much, but here we go, work together again.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, exactly. And it's you know, like death metal is very like we talked about this, it's harder to get into Gothic metal, is actually a good gateway into metal for people. In fact, there are friends of mine who are not really into metal, and I'm like, here, check out typo negative, here, check out Lakuna Coil, check out maybe not Cradle of Filth, but check out like the gathering or something, you know, and they're like, Oh, this is really cool. Like, yeah, see, it's heavy, but it's melodic, it's accessible for some people, unless it's like my dying bride or some of Paradise Lost. That's a little too dreary for the average folk, I think.
SPEAKER_00But I mean, if you break down the lyrics like My Dying Bride will crush your soul, it'll squeeze the last bit of joy from your body.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and that's why I don't know, like my dying bride. We should talk about this maybe a bit later, but the whole like di deciphering, you know, what's doom, what's death doom, what's goth, you know, because it's like there's a lot of overlap. There's a lot of overlap, yeah. But let's talk about the bands that really are the most important bands of this sub-genre. Let's talk about our Mount Rushmore of gothic metal. What do you got? Who you got on your who's on your Mount Rushmore? Remember, you gotta have four at least, right?
SPEAKER_00You gotta have four at least. Well, all right, yeah, let's get the obvious one out of the way. In Peter We Trust, typo negative. Without that band, I don't think I would have got into goth metal. They're also kind of a big part of me getting into like punk and you know, a little bit of hardcore too, but that goth metal sound, you know, black number one, Christian Woman, um God, Love You to Death, and Praise of Bacchus. Dude, my entire list of like Bet's goth metal songs could all be typo-negative songs.
SPEAKER_01Right, right.
SPEAKER_00They have the characteristic sound. Again, Kenny's guitar work is absolutely beautiful. Like, again, it shimmers, it just echoes and radiates that just beautiful, lush gothic energy. Pete's vocals, the the breathiness, that you know, a little stutter every now and then when he said something. Like he had again, like so much fucking charisma, but yeah, typo negative is the linchpin band for me.
SPEAKER_01George Washington.
SPEAKER_00After that, it gets it gets a little bit trickier. Um, I would say Paradise Lost is probably the next one down. Honestly, in terms of you know, consistent discographies, I think they have one album that I I don't like. The rest of it is killer, and they've changed around their sound a bit. But when it came down to the big melancholic riffs, it was heavy, it was oppressive and dark, but it still had that romanticized, you know, sort of like darkness to it. And Nick Holmes, my god, that guy has such a beautiful voice, and his growls are just well enunciated. He sounds evil and sinister, and then just crooning the next second. Like uh, one of the best, actually, one of my favorite metal bands, period. Like that band is incredible. I had the pleasure of seeing him a couple of years ago. Uh dude, they played all of an album I'll bring up later. But that's number two there. Okay. Um, honestly, I gotta go tribulation. Tribulation, it granted it it doesn't start at the beginning of their discography because their first album is a death metal gem that I think everyone should jam. But this evolution into goth metal kind of titans, and they were like heavier, darker, more sinister. But their last album fully embraced like all things sisters of mercy, you know, those big baritone vocals, gorgeous guitar lines, amazing lead work, too. Like these guys have like a little bit of that early new album kind of worked in there, you know, like more up-tempo songs, but huge gothic hooks, Hammond Organs stuff, too. Like, they've even done some cool covers like Blue Oyster Cult and turned them into like goth rock, too. But that band has become a favorite of mine. Pretty much God, everything from Children of the Night on, I think is essential goth metal. Um God, this one I suppose is debatable because we brought them up with My Dying Bride. My dying bride, uh I can't think of a band that captures melancholy as well as they do. Like, you feel their songs, like it's not just like, oh, it's just romanticized depression, they're actually fine. I don't know if they're fine. Like, I don't like Ian Stenthorpe has like one of the most dreary deliveries. Like, I swear he's you should like narrate like the saddest scenes in movie history and just describe them in his own tone. They'd be a hundred percent sadder, but his alternating between like those woeful, like he's like on the verge of like crying delivery to just growling his guts out, plus they incorporate strings in there too. Nothing adds more sadness to something is already said than a mournful cello, like, dear god, I'm not crying, you're crying. Um, yeah, I know they kind of border more on Death Doom, but man, I have a they have enough goth in them for sure. Yeah, I mean they had they had like a goth metal period with um oh god, it was like something like something of the sun, Empire of the Sun, or something like that. Well, the purple cover and the butterfly on it.
SPEAKER_01Oh, right, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Oh, like God's the sun, there it is. I think that's it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I think so.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, but I mean, even in their heavier, more like Death Doom stuff, there's always that element in there.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, they definitely have atmosphere.
SPEAKER_00Oh the atmosphere for days, forever, yeah, for eternity. Yes. Um, that's even though I haven't listened to a lot of their stuff, Lacuna Coil, I definitely would say set a standard because as soon as Comalys broke, yeah, and even the album before that, you swear you you found clones of that band that just kept popping up because they they found something that worked, the two vocalist dynamic. Uh Christina's vocals were haunting. They had that, you know, again, like ghostly quality occasion when there were more in the background, and then the other vocalists took over. They still had big riffs, big grooves. Like, there's a lot of stuff sonically that I think is very comparable to you know, typo negative at times. And they knew how to like just build on big hooks. Uh Heaven's a Lie. It's it's a great song. It's just a like legit perfect song.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And I'd say probably the other one uh that I threw on here, uh he brought him up, and I was actually kind of surprised. I'm happy you brought him up too, The Gathering. Oh, um yeah. I am a huge Anakin von Giersbergen fan. She is an amazing vocalist. Her work with Debbie alone, I think, is is just like that's a crowning thing on her resume. But I got into her with uh I think it was How to Measure a Planet by The Gathering. I was like, man, she has this amazing fucking voice. Like her her vibrato is it almost floats on the air, but I kind of like their it's almost progressive and gothic at the same time. Like it still sounds dark and morose, you know, a little melancholic, but song structure wise, they were willing to experiment with like melodies a little bit more, like song structure itself. Like it didn't feel it didn't feel like lacuna coil or like a clone of lacuna coil or anything like kind of like that. It felt like it was kind of reaching out in terms of like some different genres, but still say gothic and kind of dark and melancholic, and I love that. And yeah, and Anic. Yeah, Anik. Amazing vocalists.
SPEAKER_01You get you had some good ones there. Okay, I we had two crossovers for Mount Rushmore. Uh the uh the obvious one, the George Washington of Mount Rushmore is typo negative. Okay, they are responsible for a lot of copycat bands, although nobody could copy them. Uh Peter Steele is just I mean, I think he's the most iconic gothic metal musician ever. I mean, just when you think of Gothic metal, you think of Peter Steele and this band, even though they, you know, maybe they weren't the first to do gothic metal, they were responsible for a lot of the mainstream success it gained and why I think it became so over it did become oversaturated a little bit in the late 90s. Uh every guy wanted to be Peter Steele, every girl wanted to be with him, and uh the vocal style, the harmonies, the hooks, it all it all just became a staple, right, in gothic metal. So you gotta have them on there.
SPEAKER_00Oh, absolutely. I think they were the first band to go gold on Roadrunner, too.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's right, that's right. Yeah, yeah. And yeah, that's it's interesting, like you brought Roadrunner up because a lot of um a lot of these bands actually did get signed to pretty good deals. And uh one of them I'll bring up a little bit later, one very unexpected one got signed to a major record label. But my number two is Paradise Lost. I think I think you could argue they might be the first true gothic metal band, part of that Peace Phil 3 you mentioned. Uh they definitely started off doing a lot of that doomy stuff, but they were I think, like you said, they were maybe the most consistent of the gothic metal bands in the 90s. They were just pumping out one killer album after another, and they had enough, they had enough hooks, they had enough harmonies, but they were full of that dread, that melancholy to kind of make it a little doomier, and um, you know, but a little bit more on the romantic side at times. Nick Holmes, he had this uh really dreary vocal style, great vocalist, amazing vocalist. Fucking love, yeah. He's fantastic. So that was my number two. My number three is actually Theater of Tragedy because they were like instrumental in that whole beauty and the beast vocal style with those harsh, you know, almost gra those growling male vocals and the ethereal female vocals. Vocals from Live Christine, just beautiful, and they had a lot of synths too and strings, and just very romantic. It had this like Victorian quality to it. You know, it definitely felt gothic. Like it was like a gothic mansion, Dracula. You know, it was just very, very, very atmospheric.
SPEAKER_00They dressed the part too. I know Live definitely did like corsets and yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they were straight out of like Bram Stoker's Dracula.
SPEAKER_00I mean, it was just like I didn't get into them at the time. I got into Leave's Eyes. Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Another good band. Yep. Um, but my fourth, I you know, I struggled with the fourth one. I wanted to put Lacuna Coil on here, but I actually I ended up going with Cradle of Filth, and the reason is because I think they were a big part of making it more mainstream, even though they weren't the most accessible band. Uh, there was just something about them. Um, their shirts were everywhere, they were featured on TV shows. You know, they brought Gothic Metal to the extreme a bit, but uh just very atmospheric. Danny's voice, whether you like it or not, it's instantly recognizable. Uh, outside of type O, I'd say that they are probably the most popular of the Gothic Metal bands. Um, and they were actually signed to Epic Records at one point, which is pretty crazy. They one of their albums actually was with Epic. So um, and and they got a lot of attention thanks to Jackass and uh Bam Marjera, who was a huge fan. But I just think a very consistent band as well, one that is still out there putting out some pretty good albums, still touring pretty regularly.
SPEAKER_00So I I I tried to get into because like there was a point where like I feel like every metalhead was oh, but you gotta check out Crayola Filth. And I didn't like, does it does it get any better than this, please? Because I just can't do his vocals. We've gone over the last two, and Danny accrues some serious talent, like he always has like good players. It's just his vocals are something that I can't get past, but in terms of like that gothic vampiric, like it's it's almost always specifically vampiric, like that's something that I think he does do pretty well uh in terms of the imagery themes and such. Like he's really vested in all that, yeah. Um, yeah, it's just again hard for me to get into. Yeah, I know like if you bring him up in the black metal crowds, like, oh, listen here, we're gonna throw you out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I don't I never well, the thing is, like I remember with Black Metal, yeah, they were they were along with Demon Borgier, they were two bands that I kind of gravitated towards first and then got into the more extreme stuff. But I the I quickly decided that I didn't think Cradle really fit with black metal, especially once they got past their first album or maybe their second album, they really were focused more on the gothy stuff, like haunting you know, atmospheres, much more about you know, Edgar Allan Poe, Vampires, HP Lovecraft. They really didn't talk much about the black metal topics. Like Satan was there at times, but it was much more like they were more interested in stuff like Elizabeth Bathory and you know, stuff like haunted castles, stuff like that. So it was it was very much in line with gothic metal. Um, there they've always been kind of a hard band to pinpoint though, because they're just so I don't know, they just kind of do their own thing.
SPEAKER_00And so their their first offerings they're really early, so it was just straight up death metal uh before they even started like picking up on oh really oh yeah. Uh anytime because we've gone over the last two albums and I I may or may not crack jokes about Danny Filth. Um, but people say, listen, you should you should check out some of the earlier stuff. Like, I know you're a death metal fan, you might really think it's like, okay, I'll I'll give it a World One of these days.
SPEAKER_01Well, the thing about Danny is I when I first started listening to Cradle of Filth, I was really into them. And then I gotta admit, like over time they kind of lost the appeal. I've seen him live a bunch, and I still enjoy them, but his vocals can drive me a little crazy at times. I just think um the atmosphere is what keeps drawing me in. And sometimes they have some really great hooks and female vocals, uh, like Her Ghost in the Fog. I I love that song, and most of the nymphetamine album I really enjoy. But um, you know, I oh Cruelty and the Beast. We'll talk about that album too. Um, but yeah, like they're they're uh I understand why people don't like them. That voice is very uh it's it's acquired taste, let's just put it that way.
SPEAKER_00The high-pitched streaks, like that, those could go entirely, and you know, you know what? That's you're that's better at least.
SPEAKER_01Nails on the chalkboard for some people, right? Dude, all right. Well, now let's talk about our five albums that we think are just like the the cream of the crop for Gothic Metal, our favorite Gothic Metal albums, top five. We can we can go back and forth on this one if you want. What do you got for your number five? Or these no order.
SPEAKER_00Well, um, I they're kind of in order. I went with newer stuff to older stuff because like in terms of older goth metal, there's only like a handful of bands that I really just became like a huge fan of. Like they became like like staples, like I gotta listen to them all the time. A lot of the newer stuff that has popped up here, like granted it's like echoes of the past. I think there's some newer bands that just really get the sound, and I think it popularized again. Like, there was a point where I swear I think like last year, every other week, we were going over some up-and-coming goth metal bands. Like, Jesus Christ, did everyone fall in love with typo again? I'm not against it, I'm really not. Everyone like went to their parents' record collections like, Oh, Sisters of Mercy, wonder what this is all about. Yeah, um, and well, one of those bands uh is Hangman's Chair, uh, from France. Nice. My god, yeah, I use the word lush a lot to describe you know textures and soundscapes and albums. This is one of the most lush albums I think I've ever heard. Intensely reverbing guitars, it's almost dream pop at points with these big cavernous drums like the snare, you swear will echo for fucking forever. Big vocal harmonies, it's sad, it's melancholic, but it's it's beautiful, like it's almost ethereal. Like the songs sort of float on clouds, but they have these big, heavy, bottom heavy guitars and bass on here. Like this thing fucking booms. The song The Worst Is Yet to Come is absolutely beautiful, like a good, steady driving rhythm. These, you know, just heavy but dreary guitars, and they're not like super crunchy or fuzzy or anything like that. It's just this big lush sound. But the vocals they can really they're very dramatic, they capture all that melancholy. Uh, this album is beautiful, one of my favorites from last year. I still jam the shit out of it. Again, it'll wail on your speakers if you get a good system, so might want to turn the bass down a little bit, but yeah, it's a fucking beautiful album. Like, legit, if you're a big typo fan and you just can't get enough of that sound.
SPEAKER_01Alright, so my number five, I went with uh Mandelion by the Gathering. Um, yeah, this whole album from start to finish is just full of hooks. It's got this like Middle Eastern kind of cool, like ethereal vibe going for it. It's definitely got like a and you can hear influences from like Dead Can Dance or um The Cocteau Twins at times or something like that, or like um Sisters of Mercy. You can hear all that kind of here. Uh Strange Machines is just uh one of my favorite songs. I'm gonna mention it later. Eleanor, the title track, just this whole album is just absolutely beautiful. And I played it for a friend once, and he's not really like he's into metal. He's he's more into I think more generic metal, but I played it for him and he was really into it. He loved her, he loved uh what's her name? Anik Annika's vocals?
SPEAKER_00Anakin Van Giersbergen.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_00It's a mouthful. Again, diehard fan.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Well, she's amazing. She's amazing. So that's my number five. The Gathering Mandy Line. I think just a classic in the in the genre.
SPEAKER_00I still need to own more of their albums. The only one I own is if then else, but I love that album. Uh, my next one, another newer band. Actually, I saw this band shit. Was it last year? Yeah, I think it was last year, an MBF at the pre-fest. Uh, Unto others. This band is almost like the perfect blend of like the Ramones and typo negative. You get like good, chuggy, almost thrash metal wrists with like shimmering gothic tones, these really just cool, pounding, drum-driven songs. Vocals on here, like uh he's almost like a baritone Joey Ramon, but again, there's like echoes of Pete Steele in there, too. They all wear leather jackets and black, you know, shirts, black pants, and sunglasses at night. They're too cool for fucking school or any place else. But they're like bombastic and energetic. That's the kind of like interesting thing I like about it is they're not just wallowing in depression, they're moving around on stage. The songs are energetic and kind of punky, but they all have that gothic quality. Like, oh god, dude. When will God's work be done? Possibly my favorite song on here. Uh, just a matter of time. Downtown. Their cover of Hell is for children is absolutely amazing. Like, they absolutely nail that song. Yeah, this band is amazing. Their new albums, absolutely killer too. This is the one I go to the most, though. But uh, yeah, killer ad.
SPEAKER_01I don't have that one. I got their new one, and I love it's awesome. It's great. They're good. I need to get their older stuff. Like, yeah, I need to get more of their stuff.
SPEAKER_00Their their first one's harder to find because that's the one where they were still called idle hands. Oh, that's right. Yeah, yeah. Oh, that's right.
SPEAKER_01I saw that at a record store, and it was uh it was going for like a hundred dollars or something on vinyl. It was pretty expensive.
SPEAKER_00I believe it. Yeah. Secondary market.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I know, I know. They're gonna kill us all. Um, well, I got your favorite band up next to number four, uh, Cruelty and the Beast by Cradle of Filth. Um, got Elizabeth Bathery here on the cover, just a super creepy atmospheric album. It it literally feels like you're in the castle of Elizabeth Bathery. Uh, you hear screaming going like in dark hallways, like it's Danny with his just chilling, banshee like screams. But on this one, it just feels like you're trapped in the dark in a gothic mansion with this. And it's creepy, man. I remember one time listening to this album, and I wasn't really like paying attention. I was doing other stuff, and it was dark, it was night, and Danny's shrieking, and I'm just like, whoa, like it just kind of jolted me out of whatever I was doing. I'm like, this is eerie, man. I gotta turn it down. It's kind of creeping me out, uh, you know.
SPEAKER_00That's effective atmosphere.
SPEAKER_01It is, it really is. It's my favorite album by them. It's just to me, it's um, I don't know if it's a concept album. I wouldn't be surprised if it was one or not, but um Once Upon Atrocity opens this album and it's just really creepy and just very atmospheric. But Cruelty bought brought the orchids and beneath the howling stars are my two favorite songs, just uh heavy as hell, but very atmospheric. And one of my favorite uh album covers. Just uh anytime you see a a good-looking goth chick bathing in blood, it's a good day. So you're single.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm sure he was rotten.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00All right, all right. My next one, another they're they're new err, I guess. It depends. This band has gone through you know some evolution. Like, if you find their first album, you have found a death metal gem. Like it's thrashy, mean as shit. Like like Vader and Diocide, get it. But like goth metal, anything from Children of the Night to this absolutely amazing album, Sub Rosa in a Turnum, which I saw on the same night I saw unto others. Holy shit, what a show! Wow. Uh yeah, MPF prefests are no joke, they're so much fun. Uh, yeah, this this is, I think, one of the finest examples of like just classic goth rock working its way into like classic heavy metal in a way. Like this man has always had a knack for just killer riffs, good melodic hooks, great metal harmonies, like shit Iron Maiden would be jealous of. But working in that goth energy here, like dude, Saturn coming down, Hungry Waters. My god, is that one of the catchiest fucking songs I think I heard all of 2024? Um, the Reaping Song, they have that classic baritone delivery where I mean it it sounds like it's like Christopher Lee narrating some tale of woe, like, oh, that's fucking perfect, but there's like you know, a tunefulness to it, beautiful vocal harmonies, occasionally get some growled vocals. Like it's this is probably like less metallic than a lot of their other stuff, but god, in terms of the songwriting, the dynamics, the production here is perfect. It has this great organic sound. Uh, this is uh a masterpiece, like a modern goth metal masterpiece. Like anyone that didn't have this on their year-end list, I think just didn't listen to it. Yeah, this is absolutely incredible.
SPEAKER_01It was it's a great album. I yeah, I've loved uh I've loved their last three albums for sure. I uh Children of the Night was the first one I listened to. It's so it's heavy, it's dark, he's growling on there. It's it's kind of creepy at times. Love the album cover. Um, and yeah, the newest one, great. There's just some like straight up gothic rock songs on there.
SPEAKER_00It's just oh I was a huge fan of the one before it uh where the gloom becomes sound. Like that was a year under for me too. It's like it can't get any better than this. It's like fuck wrong.
SPEAKER_01They're great. I saw what did I see them? I saw them open for I think it was Opeth.
SPEAKER_00Yep, that was the same tour. Yeah, uh MDF was a stop and then they had on to others with oh okay.
SPEAKER_01I didn't see I didn't see unto others.
SPEAKER_00Uh they must have I don't know why they didn't play, but it was just like alternate uh dates or something like that they picked up, but uh yeah, I saw them open up uh for got Aon, Cannibal Corpse, and Behemoth years ago, and they were kind of like the odd band out. I was like, Yeah, this is this is Cannibal Corpse.
SPEAKER_01That's an interesting pairing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh it was a co-headline tour between Behemoth and Cannibal Corpse. It was uh God, I think it was around a skeletal domain.
SPEAKER_01Okay, yeah, it was a great show. Nice, right on. All right, my number three is a classic Draconian Times by Paradise Lost. Um we might have some overlap. This album is a masterpiece. I mean, it is I think this is also because this comes out in '95. I think this is when they started to be more correct me if I'm wrong, but they kind of went more just straight up, we're gonna go gothy, less doomy on this one. Because they're the ones before this were were pretty doomy, if I remember correctly.
SPEAKER_00I mean, yeah, like it's still very heavy, and there's still some like doom metal harmonies, but like that that purveying goth energy is there. That and I Mick really just mailed the vocal performance.
SPEAKER_01Oh, absolutely. The opening enchantment is incredible. Uh, Hallowed Land follows that. That is an amazing song. The last time, forever failure. I mean, it's just one one after another of just this beautiful. You like you you mentioned lush, very lush, a lot of these songs, just absolutely hooky and beautiful and dreary, you know, all combined into one. Nick Holmes did an amazing job on this one. Yeah, it's just from start to finish one of my favorites.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I uh I I can't help but to agree. We got uh yeah, this is man, god, it it's tough saying what my favorite Paradise Lost album is here lately because their later career has been so damn good. But this was one of the albums that got me into them. Uh Enchantment Alone. I I love that song. I think it's one of their best songs, period. Yeah, but I I think this is the point where they kind of like reeled it all in and really kind of went for that god sound. It's hookier. The songs, well, I would say are like a little bit less complex, they drive home those big vocal hooks, they they drive home the atmosphere, the riffs get stuck in your head. Uh it's an amazing album. Yeah, uh, this is where Nick really got that three-tiered vocal where he could growl, do that soft cream, that almost kind of like gloomy James Hetfield roar. Uh that's the best way I could kind of describe it. Yeah. But yeah, this this album is absolutely incredible. You named off like so many damn good songs, man. All of them. The whole album. The whole album is amazing.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, yeah, I I both look forward to and dread ranking this band. Yeah, I know. You should do it. Are you gonna do it? I mean, well, we're we're voting on bands right now, and that's one of them that might be in uh uh voting pool. That'd be cool. But it's gonna have some steep competition as always. Yeah, but yeah, um this album's remarkable. Like it is I don't know if it's my favorite anymore because again, they keep making good albums. I'm gonna be bringing up another one maybe later. But uh yeah, killer.
SPEAKER_01Good stuff. Their last album was really good too.
SPEAKER_00Yep, it was the one before it, obsidian was fucking good. Medusa's one of my later favorites. Like, holy shit, that one's heavy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there like we said, consistency. Oh all right. My number two is on here mainly for nostalgia, but I do still love it, and that is Lacuna Coil, uh Camalize, Comalies. I don't remember. I think it's comalies, I think. Uh, I I think it's a great album. It's super catchy, like I said, it's accessible, and it was the first time I heard Christina's vocals, which I instantly fell in love with. I love the dual vocals between her and um what's his name? Andrea Andrea Andrea. Um I think that's right. Yeah, something something like that. Um Swamped, the first song. Oh my god, what a what a catchy song. Of course, Heaven's a Lie, Daylight Dancer, uh Tight Rope. Love Tight Rope. I think one of my favorite songs though is um was it the one where it's it's an instrumental, not instrumental, but it's a short song. I think it's Aeon. It's like really beautiful. It's like this um it's like a two-minute track, but it's it's acoustic guitar, and it's Christina singing alone, and it's just super beautiful and super uh ethereal, and it's just straight out of like I don't know, something like The Gathering would do. And I I know that they're friends, so it kind of makes sense that they they would be influenced by the gathering. You can hear that, you can definitely hear that influence. And humane. Humane is such a cool song, but yeah, the whole the whole album was uh a big deal when it came out. I remember when it came out, and I picked it up right away because you know, mainly because of her. But then uh yeah, I was I just really liked the music. I thought it was beautiful and catchy.
SPEAKER_00Oh, it was Osfest 2004, yeah, that they played. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Because I saw them, they were I think they were in between Throwdown and Unearth. Like Sandwich Team 2, like fucking like let's go for both. Yeah. They were great though. They were fucking awesome.
SPEAKER_01They're amazing.
SPEAKER_00Alright. Number one. Uh I mean, yeah, we we know what band it is, but what album? That's true. I had to think about this one because alright, I'll be honest, this album is not my favorite album by this band, uh, but it's the one I think that captures the goth aspect probably the best. Uh yeah. October Rust, Tapo Negative. These are some of the catchiest goth metal songs ever. Love you to death, holy shit. And praise a bock, praise of Bacchus, Wolf Moon, Green Man, uh, be my druidist. Dude, you you get our buddy Shred drunk enough, and he'll start singing that song. Oh, yeah, for yeah, well, one particular part of Be My Druidist just to be fucking weird. Uh but this is the one that captured like that the balance between like good, heavy riffs, like there's still a lot of Black Sabbath and such in here, but the goth shimmering tone and the fact that every song was a little bit slower, a little bit more melancholic. Like you didn't have we hate everyone in here or kill all the white people. Everything stayed in this cool, smooth, green-hued gothic lane, and the songs were infectious. Uh, you know, it's the one that captures that vibe the most. Like my personal favorite is World Coming Down. But for me, that's almost a doom metal album. Yeah, it was one of the most bleak albums ever made. There's not enough romanticism in it. Like this one's still got the sexy energy, like my girlfriend's girlfriend, who didn't love that music video, yeah, who didn't watch it repeatedly. Totally not me. Totally not me. We're talking about talking about your friend, talking about my friend. And a problem. A real problem. What a what a creep. This is the one. Like, you know, this is the one I saw the most t-shirts for. This is the one the first time I saw them, they were touring on this album. Second time was World Coming Down, and that was an even better set. But anyway, but yeah, like this uh it's it's essential. Like if you're giving in the goth metal, you have to listen to this, I think. Like this is on that roadmap.
SPEAKER_01Yep. Well, it's funny because that's my number one. Uh October Us. It might be one of my favorite albums of all time. It's just so damn melodic. And uh it checks every box. Yeah, love you to death is uh just a gorgeous song, a gorgeous and and moody song. Red water. Oh such a great song ever. Yeah, right. Uh my girlfriend's girlfriend, super catchy, burnt flowers fallen. Oh, dude, riff, riff. Um but my favorite is definitely Wolf Moon, even if the subject matters uh absurd, right? Absolutely. Um I think it was uh who was it? Johnny, it was Johnny Kelly and Kenny Hickey, they were they were reviewing where they were just like talking about stories about Peter and and everything, and they were like sometimes he would come up with the most idiotic lyrics, uh, and Wolf Moon was one of them. And we were like, Peter, uh Kenny, Kenny said, Peter, I'm not gonna sing these, or he didn't say he's not gonna sing them, he said something like, Peter, these lyrics are retarded. And Peter's like, well, then you're gonna sing them. And he was just like, Okay, that's what happened. Peter would write these beautiful songs, but then they had these lyrics that were just out to lunch, and uh yeah, the lyrics involved. It was like a woman on her period, yep, being you know, licked by a werewolf or something like that. Something like that. Yeah, so you know, yeah, good times. Good times. Um their periods are gonna attract bears, right?
SPEAKER_00Um but again, it's romanticized.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's the song's beautiful, it's beautiful, especially that end part where they have the the the vocals come in, they have uh the backing vocal. Oh my god, it's so catchy. And uh actually another track I forgot to mention is Haunted, which is a longer track, but holy shit, that song is dark and makes you want to cry. And Peter Steele, I don't know if I've ever heard him go deeper than that. That song, he has some moments where it's like, is that a human being or is that uh something else? Like, I don't know, is that a bear or something growling? Because holy shit, he has one hell of a deep voice. Oh yeah. But uh yeah, he'll do anything.
SPEAKER_00Yes, make you there. It is.
SPEAKER_01But you know, I I thought, like, okay, well, what what are some other great gothic metal albums? So I decided to look around and see what other you know publications have put out there, and I I went to loudersound.com. They did a list of the 25 greatest gothic metal albums of all time. So they they have some good ones on here. They've got like, you know, uh Tia Mat. Um you know, they got Tia Mat on here. They got uh Wild Honey, yep. They've got uh who else? Who else got The Gathering, Nighttime Birds, uh is on here. They've got My Dying Bride, the Angel in the Dark River. Um they've got, let's see here, uh Idle Hands mana, right? Um here.
SPEAKER_00Yep, or onto others now for legal reasons.
SPEAKER_01Catatonia's on here.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Let's see what else they got. They've got um uh they've got, let's see here. Moonspell. Moon spell's gonna be.
SPEAKER_00Moon Spell is what I recently just get into. I just went over their new album. I had only heard like maybe a couple of songs and a compilation in this new album. Like, dude, why haven't I been listening to this? They're good. Like, yeah, legit. This is everything I love about Goth. There's a song on there that I feel like they almost lifted Lucretia, my reflection.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. Yeah, stupid close. I gotta listen to the new one. I haven't listened to it yet. No, I like them. I like their their stuff. Lacuna coils on here, tribulations on here, cradles on here, Paradise Lost. They've got typo, of course, but then they've got um the misfits.
SPEAKER_00I mean, all right. I I could see some arguments for that too. Like they brought forth the imagery, their subject matter is very gothic attuned, or you know, occasionally just silly and horror stuff, but there's gothic stuff in there. Sure. Musically, I mean, uh god. I don't know. Like, I mean, if you're gonna throw like because I mean Christian Death even had like a hint of punk in there too. Like they were very cross-band. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I even heard Sawin or Sam Haym, however the fuck he called it, yeah. Uh referred to as like goth metal too. So I don't know. Like, I mean, I'd feel more comfortable just calling Misfits Punk, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01But also they picked uh they picked Earth A D, which is 15 minutes long and it's super hardcore.
SPEAKER_00Oh, great hell whoops ass.
SPEAKER_01It's great, but I just don't I don't think it like you've got typo negative on here, Paradise Lost. I don't see where the Misfits fit in, especially maybe like Walk Among Us, yeah. Walk Among Us, maybe, or maybe you know, some of the Michael Graves era stuff, which is not as great, but definitely more like you know, has that more Halloween, gothy, like rock vibe. I don't know, like Earth AD is just a very hardcore punk record with Halloween stuff thrown in, but you know, sound sonically it's not very it's not very gothy, but um but that was an odd one image. Then they put Evanescence on here, which I I understand, but at the same time, like Evanescence to me was never really metal, I mean maybe alternative metal, maybe new metal, but like I just never really thought they were well, I never thought they were really goth a yeah. I think Amy Lee had a gothy look, but I don't think they were ever truly goth band, so I don't know.
SPEAKER_00I I want to say like their roots are in Christian rock. In fact, I know their drummer Rocky was in Soul Embraced, and I want to say he spent some time in Living Sacrifice, too. Uh both of which big Christian metal bands. Um I mean, like in terms of like the atmosphere and the tone, like some of it was, but a lot of it, like there were a lot of accusations of them ripping off Lincoln Park. Uh they were in the same studio when they were uh Lincoln Park was recording Meteor, I believe. And all of a sudden they have a song Bringing Back to Life that has a rap vocal in it, and like, well, that sounds vaguely familiar. Uh I want to say they even tried to proposition Mike Shinoda to be on it. Um, so I don't know, like a couple of songs every now and then I'd hear, like, yeah, that's kind of got like it's got the the gloomy piano and something like that. A darker tone to it, but uh like I don't know. It doesn't have that spooky, evil, lustful feel because being evil and lustful are sins.
SPEAKER_01Well you can't have that, yeah. And also, like to me, Evanescence is part of that um I don't know, that scene where they were a little bit too commercial for this type of music. It was it was almost like you know, like they a lot of these bands were were in the gothic um genre for you know, and people started, you know, people looked at that and went, Oh, that's a little too dark for me, that's a little bit too melancholic. Evanescence was like everywhere. I mean, they were like, I mean, come on, that album sold a bajillion copies.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I I bought the the Daredevil soundtrack, not because that song was on there, but uh that song just took off from there. And like with with goth rock and goth metal, like if if popularity is achieved and you get a single, like most of the bands are like, well, that was unexpected, right? Right, all right, cool. With Emin Essence, like that was the idea that was the idea. Like, I don't want to call it like industry print plant, but they were designed to like, yeah, we're gonna write big hooks, we're getting on the idea, we're on wind up records with fucking greed. Why wouldn't we? Right, right.
SPEAKER_01Well, and then the other band, and then this band I've I like. I've had trouble really calling them metal is him. Uh they have him on here, and yeah, they're gothy, and they're very, you know, the the romance is there, the melancholy's there, but they're I don't know, like they're um they're I don't always feel that they're heavy enough to be metal. They're they're kind of more just like a rock band, alternative rock band at times. But I don't know.
SPEAKER_00Honestly, I would have no issue calling them up a goth rock band. Like I think they fit the sound perfectly. Um Villy's got a great voice for that too. Yeah, um, I think I have a cover of um Wicked Game that he did. Yeah, him did. I was like, dude, this is this is really fucking good.
SPEAKER_01It is. Yeah. Well, and that's why I want to get into now what is it, because we were talking about some bands that maybe don't fit in. And uh I think uh for me, gothic metal has definitely has some characteristics, like death metal has. I think gothic metal also has them. I think you gotta have an atmosphere for sure. There's gotta be some atmosphere, it doesn't have to be heavy in the traditional sense, but there needs to be like a mysterious or foreboding or just an overall dark atmosphere that can that I would like to call hauntingly beautiful. I love that that phrase, right? Hauntingly beautiful.
SPEAKER_00It it's again the um you know, like death metal, both death metal and gothic metal have a thing about death, except yeah, gothic is it's more romanticized, it's the beauty of it, right? You know, again, like the vampires and top hats and monocles, and you know, the just like hey, we wear black, but there's not necessarily always a band on it. Like it's just we just want to wear black. We we we don't like the sunlight, we don't do well on that, but uh it's most of the romanticism. Like I've always said like gothic metals got a a sexy energy to it, yeah, dude. Yes, I totally get it. I used to go to Goth Knight all the time, and I mean, granted, you know, I was with my girlfriend, there were other girls there too, wearing all sorts of gothy attire. Yeah, uh, and it it it's part of it, like you know, you kind of sway to it, you groove to it, there's a whole vibe to it. Like, you know, uh a lot of goth rock albums I feel like should come with like you know, uh an order form for a smoke machine so you could really get the full ambiance while listening to it. Yes, like that there has to be that like I don't know, like it's more like um like in terms of like a film thing too, like it's more about a film that has like again like sweeping shots and like you know it's it's more atmosphere and such, it's not so much door, it's yeah, I don't know, like there's there's a vibe to it that it's I don't know again, like it kind of comes back to like the sexiness, it it really does.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, well, and I think also like part of the atmosphere is created through different instruments because Gothic metal does a really good job of bringing in stuff beyond guitar, bass, and drums, and does it in a way where metal fans are not like this is corny, get this out of here, because like synths, synths and strings and organs, this stuff can get overdone and and it can turn people off, like especially more hardcore metal fans. But gothic metal does it in a way where it's like it fits, like they bring in all kinds of stuff. I mean, it's all like if it fits, it's pretty much accepted if done in a certain way.
SPEAKER_00I think it it also has to do with like the the core progressions, too. Like right synths and metal, it's it's hit or miss for me. Like with goth metal, I mean, they're always welcome. Sometimes I always need it, but they're always welcome as long as they're kind of playing along with the theme. Like, I love the sound of like a spooky ham and organ. No, I've loved that since I think the first time I heard the fucking John Lord solo on Highway Star was like, dude, that sounds fucking cool. Yeah, and hearing that employed in goth metal, like it's a perfect little thing. Like it sure makes me think of the Monsters and Adams Family every now and then, but yeah, that kind of fits too. But it's also the core progressions where like you get since they're a little too happy, a little too major cordy, they soar a little bit too much. That can kind of sound cheesy because sure you need to keep it dark, you know, that kind of vibe. You can still be hooky and dark, you know. You get guys like Josh Silver. Josh Silver, uh, in terms of like goth metal synth players, he he's probably the best. Like in terms of textures and layers. My god, like half the reason I love the melodies on typo songs because of just that that dressing that he puts across all of it. It it makes it sound so much more beautiful.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and he's doing it in a way where it not only fits perfectly, but he's not overdoing it. Like power metal overdoes it, they overdo it. It's like do it's like just back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. And it's like, oh my god, dude, like it's this is nuts. Like, this is driving me crazy. Umtirely too happy. Very too very much too happy. Raise it, right? You gotta raise your drinking horn, right? At the always.
SPEAKER_00Always, always the drinking horn. Always the drinking horn. You have a synthesizer on you, hold it up in an act of solidarity with the other keyboardists here on stage, all five of them.
SPEAKER_01I also think this is not in every gothic metal band, but I think a big part of Gothic Metal is the beauty and the beast vocals. Um, you got like when you have the the clean female vocals and the growling male vocals, or or another female who's growling, it usually tends to be a male, but there are females out there who can growl really well. But when when you have those two kind of playing off each other, it creates such a good atmosphere with um just this like beauty, like ethereal, just female vocals that kind of float through the song, and then you have that like werewolf-like growling of the man. It's just a great combo that uh a lot of bands were did in gothic metal. I think it's perfect for that style of metal.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yeah, and and being able to like switch it up in terms of the dynamics, like not always having like the growls or the heavier parts, like sometimes like give them a big open, clean spot and a lot of reverb on that growl, and then have the clean female vocals come on the big heavy part. Yeah, there's there's stuff to play with there in terms of the atmosphere. Yeah, I love shit like that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, me too. That's it's one of my favorite. That's one of the reasons I love this style so much. But subject matter, it can be pretty varied, but I think most of the subjects, you know, grief is a big part of it, romance, loss, vampires, gothic mansions, fantasy sometimes. And this is where things get kind of tricky because you cross over with Doom a lot because goth and doom are bleaker types of metal, and so bands like My Dying Bride, Paradise Lost, Catatonia, and a more recent band that we've talked about, Mesa, right? Um these bands, I know, right? Just amazing. These bands are are kind of crossing over, they're doing a bit of both. And uh what's I guess what's the difference between these two? I guess I don't know. For me, it might be that the biggest difference is in a lot of gothic metal, there might be a little bit more accessibility, but I don't know.
SPEAKER_00That that might be it. Like uh when I think of Doom, like in in terms of like the the heaviness is more of an oppressive weight. Yeah, it's you know, um god, not necessarily romanticizing death and dying and all the bleak things, but telling tales of woe and all that, like you know, candle mass and trouble and fans like that. Like, let's talk about dark things and you know, not necessarily saying we're in praise of them or we hate them, but just let's just talk about them.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00There's again that romanticism with gothic metal, like it's it's more like you're involved with it, like it's the thing that you desire, it's the kind of brings everything together, and you know, atmosphere-wise, gothic metal again, it's more I'm trying to like wispy, I guess.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's a good way to put it. I I put down it's more uh there's a sense of mystery to it. Yeah. That uh doom metal doesn't always have. Doom metal is all about making you feel a little bit more miserable.
SPEAKER_00And I mean, like in terms of size and scope, like doom metal doom metal moves like glaciers. Yeah, you know, um, I I would say gothic metal moves like a nice cemetery fog rolling over tombstones.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, that's a good way to put it. Well, I I think another big factor in Gothic Metal, it comes down to the vocals. Um, and let's talk about some of our favorite vocalists in Gothic metal, because I think vocalists are a huge part of what makes this genre so appealing.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's it's it's that human connection, like you know, tell me your stories, the deliver them and however you want, make it spooky, make it sexy. Yeah, more than likely make it sexy. Um I sense we're probably gonna have a little bit of overlap here. Maybe so. I'm gonna call uh maybe at least at least two, maybe three. We'll see. We'll see. All right. Um going from the bottom of my list, uh Jonas Rensk of Catatonia. Uh his his breathy delivery, his meters are really awesome because they play a lot of polyrhythmic stuff, but the way his vocals sort of float and flutter, oh my god. Like he he can deliver such great hooks with that, but also like you can almost kind of hear the peaks and valleys and the stories that he's telling with how he's delivering it. I absolutely love his vocals. He used to be able to scream, but he blew his vocal cords out doing that in the second album, and has been pretty much a crooner ever since. But I mean, he he's up there with like Michael Ackerfeld in terms of like just smooth, beautiful crooning. And with all that lush gothic atmosphere that Catatonia never skims on. Yeah, he's he's been one on my list for a while.
SPEAKER_01Nice, nice. What you got next?
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. I thought we were going tit for tat here. Oh, we could do that.
SPEAKER_01Let's do that. Because my thing is actually I'm doing all female vocals. Oh well, I only have one female vocalist. I I went with all female vocalists just because to me, uh, this is a genre where women really do shine in metal. Like, there's not you can't say that about a lot of different genres, a lot of genres of metal. Women are maybe not at the forefront, but uh gothic metal. Oh man, there's a lot of of female presence in this genre. And my outside of like Nick Holmes and Peter Steele, most of my favorite uh vocalists are women in Gothic Metal. So I I feel like I go that route. So my my number 10 is uh Ane Nurmi from uh Lacramosa.
SPEAKER_00Wait, are we doing 10 or 5? I only wrote down five five. Yeah. Oh, my number five. I didn't say my number 10. Yeah, you said number 10. I was like, oh shit.
SPEAKER_01Wait, more time. No, my number five is Ane Nurmi from Lacromosa. Um, just this really odd band. I I I listened to them largely because well, A, I heard they were from Germany, and I was like, okay, gothic metal, Germany, male and female vocals. What's not to like here? Um, but they're a very odd band. I wouldn't say they're my favorite in any way. They they kind of are um I don't even know how to really describe them. Sometimes they're very um symphonic. Um, other times they're not really metal at all. But um they have this weird sort of like I don't know, sometimes carnival feel to them. Like they have this weird dark cabaret or carnival sound to them or look to them, but then they also can look like vampires, and she's just like this really incredible uh sultry vocalist who um plays off her male counterpart who has a little bit more of like a an odd kind of eccentric vocal style, and she's kind of like the one that brings it back to um the darkness, if you will. So she's really cool, love her vocal style. Um not my favorite of the gothic metal bands, but I think they're unique, and just hearing her voice, I was pretty that's kind of what got me interested in them was her vocals. I've heard of the band, but I don't think I've ever listened to them. They're odd, and they have a shit ton of records, too. So it's uh yeah. Their their album art is also very interesting. It's all very similar. It's like this black and white artwork. It looks like it was done by um somebody local, somebody they know, not like a professional. Professional artist. It's cool though. It's really cool how they how they did it, but it's just an odd their album covers are really odd looking.
SPEAKER_00So we'll have to look into them later.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Well, my lone lady on my list, and it was gonna be someone special. And again, I've been a huge fan of her for years. We've already talked about her. Anik von Gersbergen of The Gathering and Frequent Collaborator with Devin Townsend. She's also in another band called Ver V-U-U-R, which is like more progressive metal. I love her voice. It it almost makes me feel like I'm in tune with nature. Like she's just in a garden someplace and singing, and it might be raining, it might be sunshine. Like, I don't know. Like, there's there's a happiness to her vocals, too. Like it's not all you know, dour and miserable. Like her delivery, it it kind of like floats on air. Her verbrato is uh it's one of the most soothing things. Like, there's just something that is calming about her vocals, yeah, but she does convey that you know juriness when she has to. She just has a tremendously beautiful range. Um, yeah, I I've been a huge fan of her. I've just been lacking in terms of like, I gotta go out and get some gathering albums. Oh, look, something else shiny. Um, it's it it happens when you're a collector, but oh yeah, yeah. Anik is uh truly something special. I I adore her vocals.
SPEAKER_01She'll be on the list for sure as well. Um, my number four pick is uh I think I've pronounced this right, Heika Longhans. She was the vocalist for Draconian for a while. Um, she wasn't the first one, I believe she was the second or third, maybe the second one. Um amazing vocalist, such a dreary, ethereal, melancholic sound to her. Her ability to kind of have that like like dark um forest kind of energy while the male vocalist is like growling like a freaking wolf. It's such a cool combination. Um I'm trying to remember the song that that they were on that sounded amazing. There was there was one song in particular, actually, it's probably on my list here. Oh come on. Yeah, Stellar Tomb. The song Stellar Tombs, the live version of that is chilling. It is so beautiful, and her vocals are just uh incredibly like atmospheric and haunting, and uh yeah, I just and she's gorgeous to boot. So I mean it's like it it kind of like it helps when all these uh women are just so beautiful, you're just like goddamn, like uh they know they know you know how to get the the look for gothic metal right.
SPEAKER_00It's just like it's some goth stereotypic uh you know they they exist for a reason.
SPEAKER_01Exactly, exactly. But no, she she's a great vocalist. She's doing something different now. I think she's in like a a side not a side project. She she left Draconian and they got the uh original female vocalist back, but um she's doing like her own thing now, so I've been meaning to get into that band too.
SPEAKER_00It's another one that I just I can't I haven't got her. I know they put on an element like this year too.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah, I haven't listened to it either, but they're their um their stuff is is incredible. They're their first uh God. They're they're I think they they were mostly around in the 2000s. They started in the 2000s, I think, late 90s.
SPEAKER_00I remember seeing stuff before I just never followed up on yeah, I mean so so many bands. There's so many bands.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're let's I'm trying to think of which album is the one. Oh, yeah, Arcane Rainfell from 2005. That album is incredibly bleak. It's it has a death doom feel to it, too. So it's kind of like you know, it's right up your alley.
SPEAKER_00All right. Well, yeah, I'll see your bleak and raise you one possibly more bleak. Oh Aaron Stainthorpe of My Dying Bride, in terms of conveying grief and misery, uh there's almost like none like him. Like he, in terms of like the the true, most morose, you know, dour, dire, whatever you want to use to describe like gothic metal, like the pits of misery, where it's less romanticized. That's where Aaron's soul kind of lurks and comes up with like the most harrowing lyrics possible. Uh, and he's he's lived uh somewhat of a life to reflect that too. But his theatrical delivery and his cleans again, like you feel them. Isn't it so much like wow, that's a really cool delivery that's you know very melodic. That's like, oh my god, I I can sense the misery on his fucking breath. Uh, and then switching gears to some of the most monstrous roars. Like, my personal favorite is still their debut as The Flower Weathers. Holy shit, that album's heavy and dark and miserable. But some of the later stuff, like uh, was it uh Two of Deathless Kings, I think um The Dreadful Hours, that's an amazing one, too. Um, and even like the most recent one or the last one with him on it, like his ability to get like switch gears back and forth. That and my dying bride, when he harmonizes with the like the cellos and such, like Jesus, this is a funeral now. Yeah, yeah. That's something that you know, I know I I look for bands that occasionally can out miserable My Dying Brides, and very few bands can. Uh that's yeah, when we go over bands like that, that's a chance for me to crack jokes about RTX dying to John because that you know that tortures every kid of the 80s. Um, but yeah, like he can narrate that one, but yeah, he he has a specific delivery that is is just so dark and dire that you know he he he gets the darkest spectrum of gothic metal, I think. Yeah, and you know, you can argue again Death Doom, but I mean their imagery has also been very similar to they've had female vocals come in there too. And uh it it's it's a it's a hard one to call where they are, like because you could say Gothic Death Doom, and people like, yeah, no, that's fucking fine. Yeah, yeah. I I I was miserable listening to this. Please play more.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, that man, they are they are the kings of that just absolute bleak uh put me in a hole now uh atmosphere. My god. That that is them. That is them. My third, my number three pick here is Anik von Giersbergen, the gathering. Oh man, she's such a good vocalist. Like she is she is she has such a range, uh, there's a richness to her voice, and yeah, she's got this ability to make herself sound kind of otherworldly, and um especially on like Mandelion, she does a good job of, like I said earlier, bringing in that like Eastern flair where you think like, oh man, she must have been traveling throughout you know the Middle East or something or North Africa or something. She's got that like just exotic sound to her voice at times. It's really cool.
SPEAKER_00They're just there's just so fucking smooth.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I mean you are you already gushed over her enough. I don't have to say too much about her, but yeah, she's she's amazing.
SPEAKER_00Red hair too. I want to get that in there.
SPEAKER_01Yes, she's she's incredible. I'd love to see I've never seen him, I'd love to see him live, but I I I have not seen her live.
SPEAKER_00I've seen live performances with Devin Townsend, and she sounds amazing in those. Yeah, uh the version where they let her do like almost all the vocals on hyperdrive.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that was her.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there's a version out there where she does like almost all the vocals on oh wow, okay. And oh, what was the one off of Addicted where they switched vocal parts uh just to show off? Uh she's amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, she's great. Great. Number two for you.
SPEAKER_00Number two for me. All right, we're we're getting to the obvious ones here. My number two, old Nick Nick Holmes. Yeah, uh, yeah, in terms of a goth rock, goth metal delivery. I there's maybe only one other one that I can think of as possibly more perfect. I don't know. I I would even make arguments that maybe this guy could be a little bit better because of different ranges in his voice. Like he has that crooning ability, he has those gruff, mid-level, like again, like sullen Hetfield growls, and then he has the roar, and it's very intelligible. You can make out everything he says. God, look the chorus hooks that come across, and of course, like draconian times, uh, but I mean, throughout their entire discography, like again, Medusa, um how was it uh Faith Divides Us, Death Unites Us. It's another solid one, too. Gothic. Yeah, I mean, there's yeah, there's another reason why we're bringing them up too, and even the more death metal stuff. Like, I mean, the guy has just an incredible range. Uh, he he can just croon the fucking panties, I think, off of any goth chick. And I had the pleasure of actually watching them play all of Draconian Times Live and spot on live. Yeah, his his the live delivery is perfect. I watched him do um typo covers over the pandemic, too. Oh wow! Oh that's amazing. That's great. That's so fucking good. Yeah, Nick Nick Holmes is he's up there like one of my favorite vocals. It's like period. Yeah, he's just he's just got it. Yeah, and he also fronts bloodbath, so that's like so much. That's right. Yeah, yeah. Nick Holmes rules.
SPEAKER_01He does rule, he does rule. He's amazing. He'd be on my list if I was doing just males for sure. Um, absolutely. But my number two female vocalist, I got Christina Skebia from Lukuna Coil. I mean, she is uh she's just a great singer in general. She can do a lot of different things. She she's actually really good at I because I know they've kind of um they've kind of gone in a more generic alternative rock direct, alternative metal direction. New metally, yeah, new metalish. But she does that well too. Like her vocals there are good. She's good as being at being like a rock vocalist in general, but she's good at the ethereal stuff as well. She's really good at um just belting it out. So overall, I think she's uh she's one of the strongest female vocalists, not just in gothic metal, but in metal, just because of her her ability to sing in that very mysterious, kind of haunting way, but then also just sing in a rock style, like a very straight-up metal and rock um style of uh of music. So yeah, Christina.
SPEAKER_00I've I've I've loved Christina for many, many a year. I even dated a chick named Christina who was also short and had dark hair, but she couldn't sing, so they're completely unalike. Damn it.
unknownDamn it.
SPEAKER_00But she liked metal though. So that was well, there you go.
SPEAKER_01There you go. All right, but who's your number one? I'm guessing it's gonna be uh some guy from New York.
SPEAKER_00Uh he might be from uh New York, he might be like eight or nine feet tall.
SPEAKER_01Uh he he may have been on playgirl. He may have been on playground. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. All right. He might be a bit uh storing more than corn in that silo. Yeah. Uh he also might have a thing for green. Yeah. Um he is possibly known as the green man. The green man. That'd be Peter Steele. Yeah. He's he's like if you just say the words goth metal, typo pops in my head as the first thing. And it's his voice, the breathy delivery. Again, when I talk about like the sensual delivery, like I swear, like every other line in a typo negative song, you could be hearing Peter's vinegar strokes. It's it's it's there. Yeah. I mean, you know, without that sultry energy, you don't get, you know, I think the overall vibe of like Christian woman, yeah, or you know, uh be my druidess. Yeah, you know, you you have to have a bit of that, but his voice was huge, like he could shrink it down to that flutter where it just barely felt like anything was coming out. It was just all breath.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And then belt out this huge baritone fucking note out of nowhere and carry it for a while, like deceptively strong vocals. Plus, he had Kenny to play off, who Kenny had almost kind of like a Chris Cornellish sort of delivery, too. The harmonizing between the two was great, but yeah, Pete was uh he was he was everything that was goth metal. His again, his monstrous bass tone, you know, the imposing physique. Like, yeah, he he is like why the fuck isn't there a statue of him in New York? Yeah, like somewhere in New York. They can make it actual size and still show how just huge he was. Yeah, can't believe how big he was. Yeah, he is the first time I saw him at Ozfest in '97, uh, on stage wandered a slightly drunk Phil Anselmo. And uh he started leaning on Pete, and the the size difference was massive. But uh they did kill the white people together, which was absolutely amazing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Phil Anselmo, um, I know they were pretty close from touring everything, but that's such a Phil Anselmo um is like he's it looks like a big guy, but next to Peter Steele, he's probably like uh a baby.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, what was he was like six foot five, six foot six or something like that? Like he was just huge, yeah. And of course, like he was just like you know, cock diesel there, especially like 97. Yeah. Like the world's biggest gothic gym rat.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. My number one I had to go with Liv Christine from Theatre of Tragedy and Leave's Eyes. Um, she to me is just like the perfect embodiment of gothic metal vocalists and a woman. Um, she's the beauty and the beast pioneer, like I mentioned before, but she's also got this like great music background where she's really into classical opera, she has a lot of influences, she's got a huge range, um, just incredibly, incredibly atmospheric vocals. And when paired with her um more harsh male counterparts, it's just it's very dreamy sounding. It's very like you know, it is classic fairy tale, gothic fairy tale sounding. So yeah, Liv Um, Liv is an incredible vocalist, so had to go with her, number one.
SPEAKER_00I mean, she's another one that I think of in terms of like female goth vocalists. Uh I I got to know her through Atrocity because that was her husband, I believe, that fronted it for all or now ex-husband. Uh, but then I saw like some videos for Leave's Eyes. Like, well, I don't know if they're pirates or anything, but she can really sing. Plus, she did some stuff with Cradle Filth. Uh I forget which video it was. My brother-in-law was actually a big fan of that one, but yeah, she she always had impressive vocals, like and again, more operotic, more classic trained. Like, it didn't necessarily sound like it was like rooted in goth rock. Like, she was like, No, I I I love the orchestras and shit.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, gothic metal, how did this all get started? We should we should talk about how this even came to be because it's um it's an interesting story because it doesn't involve just metal. Whereas like with death metal, it's pretty much metal that that gets that started with gothic metal, it's a little bit different, and you know, I was curious too, because I know in some ways how it got started. I looked into it more, and it should make sense. It makes sense. I shouldn't have been surprised by this, but you can trace this back to the beginning of metal itself with Black Sabbath. Uh Black Sabbath was very instrumental, right, in creating that dreary atmosphere with um, you know, the fantasy fantasy element, right? And of course, we think of like Doom and Stoner more when we think of Black Sabbath, but definitely Gothic too, in a weird way. Like a lot of the bands that you know, like the Peaceville 3 and everything, they were heavily inspired by Black Sabbath. So um, you can definitely trace it back to Sabbath, but um Gothic rock, right? 80s Gothic rock, uh, Sisters of Mercy. The amount of copycat bands from them is unreal. They pretty much pioneered the atmosphere and sound of of that style. I mean, it's unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00Floodlands is an amazing album. Yeah, flat out. Vision thing is also cool, too. Uh but Floodlands, that's the one, Lucretia, my reflection. I dude, how many times have you heard a band start out with a four or four time, you know, a little drumbeat and then heavy bass line under there? Like it it it I feel like that's like a scissors of mercy thing, and you hear it throughout goth metal and goth rock still. Yeah, like now this them, the cure, bajos, and susie and the banshees, yep. Um, those those are the ones that somehow like Metalhead started hearing what they were doing, and like there's a way to integrate this, make it heavier and darker.
SPEAKER_01And and I would say, like, you know, you mentioned uh Vision Thing. I think Vision Thing from Sisters was a huge influence just because it had that chunky rock guitar. Um, because Floodland was amazing, but it definitely was a lot of darky, dark wave kind of atmosphere, and Vision Thing was a lot more of a straight-up rock record, like with really good guitar work.
SPEAKER_00Um there were also the the darker post-punk bands that I think kind of contributed, like Joy Division, yeah, uh Killing Joke for sure. Killing Joke I think influenced a lot of metal, period, and even some of the more industrial stuff. Uh, but yeah, somewhere in there, you know, it it kind of worked its way into metal, and we found a way to incorporate it where it didn't sound like it was a clunky sort of like, hey, we just want to try this and see if it worked. Like it seemed like you know, that first run of like goth metal bands, like now you guys kind of get it.
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, and I think um two other bands I had on here that I think really were important besides sisters, I think Fields of the Nephilim. Um, because the atmosphere, right, that they pioneered the guitar riffs, really psychedelic, heavy guitar tones. Um, they created this cinematic, dark, oh yeah, holding up Dawn Razor there. Hell yeah! Amazing album. Um, yeah, they were they were really important for creating that like dark cinematic sound. And and Carl McCoy, right, the lead singer, he actually released a gothic metal album under the name just Nephilim, the band Nephilim. They did one album and it was like us, it was a gothic metal record. So yeah, I think they were one of the another one of those huge uh bands for the for the gothic metal genre.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, uh his his vocals too. Like again, he had like again the deep baritone thing, which I mean they also carry it through, you know, the gothic metal song. You you kind of gotta have like I don't know, a vocal quality that invokes darkness, but again, you know, uh in in an appealing way. Yeah. And Carl definitely got that. I mean, yeah, yes, dude. And yes, well, the look too, the the dusters and everything are just every time I look at the live footage, like, man, they're probably hot. Oh, yeah. Oh, you better believe it.
SPEAKER_01Carl's like, no, the dusters stay on. It could be a million degrees out, they stay on. Um, another band though that I think was really important, and and you can debate whether or not they're really goth, but the cult, um, especially their album Love, just really good like gothic rock songs, not metal, but definitely on the hard rock edge.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I let me see. I think that's the one I own too. Hold on here. Yeah, because it's a band I've been meaning to no, no, I yeah, love. Yes, yeah, uh that's got uh she sells Sanctuary.
SPEAKER_01Yes, it does. Yeah, it's so good.
SPEAKER_00Uh, I mean, there's elements on there that I would definitely argue that there's a lot of overlap. Like again, the shimmering guitar sound, that that driving drum and bass thing. But Ian Ashbury's vocals, I don't I don't know if he quite had like that gothic delivery, like he just had big rock vocals. He was a big rock vocalist, yeah.
SPEAKER_01He was he was like 70s rock vocal. Like he could have fit in with the you know that crowd back in the 70s. Um, but he had that weird like Jim Morrison, like shaman energy to him, where he was kind of he was just kind of this weird guy wearing, you know, some very like uh odd clothes, let's just put it that way. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00A weird hat and flowing things attached to his leather jacket.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh Firewoman was the first thing I ever heard by him. I was like, this song is just catchy as shit. Oh yeah. But uh Love was that's the only classic album I own of theirs. I own some of the uh well, are the Beyond Good and Evil one, which was an expensive misfire. Um right. But uh the classic stuff, like again, like it it borders on that. Like there's definitely stuff you can pull from there that again has that gothic quality, but uh, you could almost just say I was like, Yeah, this is like classic A's rock. Yeah, or like AOR. I mean, yeah. It fits there too. It's a damn good fucking rain.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I love that song. Such a good song. But then when we get into the metal realm, I think do Doom metal, uh, early Doom. I think bands like uh Celtic Frost was a band that was brought up a lot, and even Candlemass. Uh Candlemass had that gloomy, gothy atmosphere at times. So, you know, some of that early Doom was was definitely influential on the genre.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I could definitely hear that. I mean, Candle Mass, like Messiah's Messiah's vocals are almost like a oo, you know, in a in a way. Like, I mean, I I want to do that anytime I hear the chorus on Bewitched. Um, but yeah, I it's again like kind of that same energy approached slightly different differently. Like, you know, Candle Mass is more about those big riffs and then having those soaring vocals on top. And I mean Epic Doom, that's that's what they're known as. And Epic doesn't necessarily fit goth. I don't know, but there's definitely like gothic metal or like gothic doom metal bands, like again, the Peaceville bands, especially uh Anathema, Paradise Lost, and My Dine Bright, and you know, Catatonia for those people who call it Peaceville 4. Um, those are the ones in terms of the Death Dune ones that I think really leaned into the Gothic stuff.
SPEAKER_01I I agree. I I have them up here too, like Paradise Lost. Um you know, they that whole Peaceville group was where I think it really starts. And uh Paradise Lost in particular, back in 89, um Nick Holmes was interviewed, and he said, or the interviewer said, You're not really metal, you're not really gothic, so what are you? And Nick Holmes said, Call us gothic metal, then so it he just kind of was like, just call us gothic metal. Um they're not metal. I don't know, but that's that's what they said, and uh, you know, they uh they also kind of went on to say, the guitarist Aaron went on to say that in Bradford we used to go to a number of clubs where one minute they'd be playing serious gothic music and the next minute they'd have on Creator or something. So just uh, you know, clearly they're getting their influences from a lot of different places. Uh Nick Holmes said that the band's early influences were Black Sabbath and Dead Can Dance. Ooh.
SPEAKER_00Dead Can Dance, I could definitely hear that.
SPEAKER_01Um, so yeah, Paradise Lost, My Dying Bride, you know, and um Anathema, right? Just like these three in in particular, I think, were were definitely the start of all this. Um they kind of did their own things too, like Anathema kind of went on and did some other stuff that wasn't even really metal, but yep, my dying bride, of course, went even deeper into the Death Doom. But it's really with the commercial success in the 90s and the 2000s that this stuff really comes to the forefront. Typo negative. We've talked about them to death, but they are they are the you know, they are the band. Love them to death. They love them to death, they're the band that really um that really got this whole thing moving in terms of of breaking through to the mainstream. And um, so yeah, the bands like them, and we've talked about all these other bands too, like Theater of Tragedy, Cradle of Filth, Lacuna Coil. I think the late 90s, early 2000s scene was um just huge for for gothic metal. But there was also a lot of movies in the 90s that were lending itself to this stuff. I mean, people were in love with vampire movies in the 90s, right? Uh or or just goth movies like The Crow, oh the uh right, the Crow, uh Bram Stoker's Dracula, the Francis Ford Coppola movie, Blade, Interview with the Vampire, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, the Underworld movies, right? Like all these movies were coming out in the 90s and the early 2000s. So there was this huge um desire, this huge craving for this kind of bleak but romantic world of Gothic, uh, specifically through the vampire, because vampires were fucking hot. And then Twilight ruined it. Twilight ruined it.
SPEAKER_00I like werewolves better anyway. Yeah, see, there you go. There you go.
SPEAKER_01But what so that's kind of how it started, but what's the current state of Gothic metal? And I and I gotta say, I love watching your channel when you when I when I hear you're gonna do a gothic metal record, I get really excited because you know there I you guys um you guys do all kinds of different metal, but I can tell when you do a gothic metal, you in particular, you kind of get this like light in your eyes where you're like, Yes, you know, gothic metal.
SPEAKER_00Um I mean it it brings me back to a point where again, like it's that crossover period between like watching these cool bands on MTV in the 80s, like Sisters of Mercy and The Cure, and then like that discovering typo negative, like, oh my god, this is so cool.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00So I I I get giddy in those, but the current state, honestly, there's been a resurgence in terms of like goth metal bands, like and like getting back to like those like traditional, like like Sisters of Mercy, Ceusy and the Banshees, and The Cure, Bajas, like stuff like that, like really implementing that, and then you know, making it just like a little bit heavier. Like, I think again, like uh Tribulation, they absolutely nailed it on that last album. Like that is uh damn near a perfect goth metal album, right? There, like that is brilliant representation of like the style itself, and there's more of those bands showing up, and uh bands willing to like experiment with that, like you know, maybe not as much the imagery, but definitely the sound. Like, there's something about those, like those clean, shimmering tones that while they are cleaner and not as heavy, they still evoke a more dark sort of vibe overall. Um, hearing like gothic synths show up a little bit more. I think it's it's kind of like in a good spot right now. Like again, you have Tribulation, you have on two others. Um, I mean, I think Sisters of Mercy is still out there touring. Um Kenny Hickey's been approached about doing a typo thing. Uh, I know, I know he's they're thinking about it because Kenny was like, Yeah, it'll be kind of fun playing those songs again.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it would, but but oh man, how do you do that?
SPEAKER_00I mean, it's me. Like that you you find something to get Nick Holmes, get Nick Holmes.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, okay.
SPEAKER_00All right, there you go.
SPEAKER_01Well, yeah, there's a there's a lot of great gothic metal bands, like you've mentioned Tribulations, um, Unto Others, Hangman's Chair. You mentioned all those. Uh Cemetery Skyline.
SPEAKER_00That was one that I almost brought up here because I really like that debut, and I believe they're already working on a new one.
SPEAKER_01Good, bring it out. I want more. That band's great.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I I mean I know that um Michael can do clean vocals, but hear him do entirely clean vocals, like he's got a good croon. A lot of the songs were driven, they were still heavy, but again, it's more lush, it's more atmospheric. I mean, they got the keyboards from Amorphous in there, and that dude can you know just compose all sorts of beautiful soundscapes and textures. It's a great rainy day album.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I I think there's some great stuff out there, however, you know, a lot of the OGs are gone. Uh, typos gone, theater of tragedy is gone, uh, Anathema's not really doing gothic metal anymore. And we talked about it, Lacuna Coil is doing more generic alternative and new metal. So, you know, it's there's a lot of those bands that were great that are no longer really doing what they were doing, but um I think um right now we're seeing a lot of bands doing a lot of crossover where it's like they're doing death metal, doom metal, black metal, but they're throwing goth in. It's like it's a cool mix of like goth is still there, but it's not okay, it's fine if you experiment with other stuff as well. And uh I like that. I think that's really cool. I think it's great to kind of have goth, but also to try other things with it.
SPEAKER_00I think it's great. I feel like a good chunk of it also can kind of like maybe merge twin and doom metal because do metal will always like kind of welcome that sort of vibe too. Right, right. Um uh there's definitely some bands out there that are doing that currently, but yeah, I mean any any genre in terms of their like ability to hang out and still be vibrant is predicated on what's coming in in terms of like younger bands, like you need you know, youth, you need new bands to keep the singing alive. Yeah, and I think goth metal has some at this point. It's always been sort of a niche genre, though, in terms of metal, so it's gonna need some really good ones to stand out. I think it does have some though. So, you know, I think I think we're gonna get you know another resurgence. I'm gonna keep looking for more goth metal bands this week.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, for sure. Me too. But uh, let's talk about our favorite songs to close this out. Where are 10 our 10 favorite gothic metal songs, and we can we can go back and forth on this one. Um, what you got, man?
SPEAKER_00This was a pain in the ass. Good. Oh man. All right, again, this is a mix of new and old. Uh, definitely some bands we've talked about, and maybe one. Okay. All right, there were two we haven't. Yeah, no, maybe just one. Uh, for me, the first one on my list, Catatonia, Old Heart Falls. Um, off of Fall of Hearts. It's an amazing, dark, gloomy album. Ravens on the cover. It's uh it's proggy, but it's I don't know. It kind of it came at a time where Opeth really wasn't making great Opeth albums, and it kind of scratched that itch, but it also had just that you know melancholic, dreary sound. And this song has a chorus that should have propelled them on every fucking radio station, but somehow didn't. Giant, huge. It it just spoke to you. Rent's fluttering vocals were amazing. You have these like soft, like Hammond organ scents, beautiful guitar work. Oh my god, the guitar harmonies are gorgeous. It's it's such an evocative, wonderful, uh, gloomy and depressing song, but god, it's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, Catatonia. I gotta listen to more of their stuff. I gotta be honest.
SPEAKER_00Dive in.
SPEAKER_01Uh, my number 10, I've got Cold and Distant by Hangman's Chair, one of the newer bands on my list. I just fell in love with that album, Loner, and this song immediately stood out with its chunky, swirling guitars, the moody atmosphere, and the vocals that sounded like they were kind of foggy at times, kind of whispery.
SPEAKER_00They're very layered. I love how they do the vocal production.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, but yeah, Hangman's Chair, Cold and Distant. Love it.
SPEAKER_00All right, next up, another band that we've brought up quite a bit, definitely me, My Dying Bride, and a song Black Voyage off of The Angel and the Dark River, which I might argue is probably one of their most gothic sounding albums. Next to Turn Uh Turn Loose the Swans, maybe that one it almost sounds like Doom Metal at Renfare. Uh, but god, this song, uh, one of the longer cuts in this album. It's miserable, it's got these just gloomy scents. It's it feels like there's like a fog that just hangs over the entire album. And I I love it. Like it's this this lush, almost kind of like damp sound, like a damp London street, and you know, the shadows of people walking through. Like it's creepy, but again, uh romanticized. Again, Aaron sounds as miserable as anyone possibly could. Uh, and again, the switches between growls and his uh dramatic delivery. It's just an absolutely bleak, but just very melodic, catchy song. I dig the hell out of it.
SPEAKER_01My number nine, I've got Theater of Tragedy. Haven't heard of them before, right? Uh with Venus. And uh this this song is really symphonic, very Victorian, uh, beautiful vocals from Liv. Got that like dark, melancholic, ethereal, dreamy atmosphere all at once. It's like the Cocteau twins meets typo negative, but you can definitely hear where they influenced a lot of bands after. So yeah, theater of tragedy. They had to make my list, and I went with Venus.
SPEAKER_00Alright. I still gotta get some theater of tragedy. I think I have a bunch of tracks on like compilations from fucking forever ago. Alright, next up for me. This band has not been brought up, but it this guy's been in bands with a lot of these other bands, especially one that I just brought up. Uh band called God Thrim. And uh their song Devils, uh, off their second album. Uh God, what's the name of that one? Fucking oh, damn it, I forgot the name of the album. There you are. It is Distortions, their second album. And this one features one uh Hamish uh Glencross, who is a former member of My Dying Bride. He actually stepped on around uh the dreadful hours, and this is a newer band, but it has a very old school sound, like it's almost like that perfect meeting point between Paradise Lost and My Dying Bride. Heavy, riffy. He brought his wife in on this album, and she does some very ghostly, haunting female vocals, and he doesn't necessarily growl, but he has like a roar, a presence to his vocals, but it's also very melodic. And this song Devils is probably the most like straightforward riffy song, like it's just driving, it's chuggy, it's still got the atmosphere, but there's a little bit of extra aggression, like a crowbar or something like that. And the song just hits, like it's just got a good fucking riffy hook, and it still sounds drab and you know just gothic as hell.
SPEAKER_01Nice, nice. Yeah. Um, what do I have here? Number eight. Oh, a band we've uh we've mentioned already several times, Tribulation, Strange Gateways Beckon, um, from uh Children of the Night. Yep. Love this song, it's got that vampiric quality to it with the organs and the piano at the beginning, and then the growling vocals kick in. Uh he sounds like a demonic vampire. I mean, that's what he sounds like. Uh, it fits. It fits.
SPEAKER_00He's got a clear growl. It was very comparable to um Michael from um Dark Tranquility.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Register kind of growl where you can make out everything he says.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, it's he's a great vocalist. Uh, and it's it makes sense considering the album is called Children of the Night, and the and the cover of the album features an image from a silent movie called Les Vampires, right? So it all works, it all fits very they really play up that vampire angle perfectly.
SPEAKER_00Oh, 100%. They're they're excellent at it. Yeah. Uh my next one is a band we've brought up before. Uh, actually, a band you brought up just before me, Hangman's Chair. And it's one that I uh brought up off of the last one, Sad Addiction. The worst is yet to come. Uh, this song, so haunting, so driving. Like the delay and reverb and the guitars, like again, there's this like cloud of like you know, fog and neon lights around it. Like, it just has this just again, like super left sound, the wailing vocals, the big vocal hooks on the chorus, but it still has like again, like a driving, pounding, you know, energy to it that I like. It's a good headbanger at the same time, even though the guitars they don't necessarily feel like super heavy or chunky, they're just big, but everything on that album is big. Like again, you'll hear that snare thwack and just echo for fucking forever, and it's the coolest fucking thing. Uh, yeah, I I love that song. That might be my favorite song that I've heard by that band so far.
SPEAKER_01They're they're great. I'm so glad I I found out about them. They were yeah, they're just one of they're one of the the gothic metal bands right now that's just really excited me. Yeah, this I'm interested in every album they put out. So for sure. All right, my next one, I got Moonspell, uh, Capricorn at her feet. And I, you know, we talked about Tribulation with the vampire. Moonspell really does well diving into the werewolf stuff, the werewolf aspect. Um, I love I love when bands do that, when they like pick a theme and they kind of go with it like that. And um, the lead singer here, Fernando Ribero, I believe his name is, he starts off singing in a very gothy tone before he brings out more of a that guttural sound. But that the song is just this like slow, dark, dreary rock song. It's just you know, metal song, really, but it's a rocker, it has a rock uh quality to it. Just love it.
SPEAKER_00I need to dive into this band's discography. And I I really enjoyed that new one, and I ordered it, it should be here tomorrow. Oh, nice. I need to I need to get some more of their stuff because you know, as soon as I said, Oh, this is my first time really listening to an entire moon spell album, all the fans come over there. Holy shit, you're uninitiated! We have two of our favorite albums. So I got like a long list to go through. All right, my next one, another band that we've gone over, uh, though from a different album, The Gathering, and the song is Roller Coaster, which is the opening track off of If Then Else. There's something about this song that uh it just gets me every time. Like the lush, kind of wispy guitars, the pulsating sense, that kind of slow, almost doomy rhythm, and of course, Anik singing over all that. It's such a beautiful song, very reflective lyrics. Uh, I love you know how echoey she gets in certain parts. Uh, it's heavy, but it feels kind of like again, like light and airy at the same time. There's just something about that song that I've I've just been I've been in love with that song since I heard it. Uh yeah, I had to have some gathering on there.
SPEAKER_01No, for sure. They'll be on my list. Oh, I'm just you wait. Just you wait. Uh my number six pick, I went with Draconian, uh Stellar Tombs. I mentioned them earlier. The song earlier, epic song though, from them. And I think while Theater of Tragedy definitely was the architect for the Beauty and the Beast vocals, Draconian really perfected it and has kept it going. Uh, I think this six this song is a great example of that. Just incredible dual vocals between male and female vocalists, just a very haunting track. Stellar Tombs, whenever you have Tomb in it, it's like okay, you know, it's it fits the aesthetic perfectly.
SPEAKER_00All right. Another band that's been brought up, but a different album. Uh Tribulation and the song is Hour of the Wolf. Oh. Uh yeah. Probably uh it might be my favorite song by the band. There's something about that guitar line. It's it's absolutely beautiful, and how they layer it with the harmonies and such. Like it's almost like a goth metal, like blue oyster cult song with like harsh vocals on it. It's catchy. I I love the little like almost Jason Voorhees like echoes towards the end. But that driving rhythm, the beautiful lead on there, too. Uh that song is a flat out rocker, and it's almost again like one of those things where it borders on both goth rock and goth metal. Like, here's this meeting point. Like, if you changed like the guitars a little bit, made them a little bit lighter, maybe you'd be more goth rock, or change the vocals entirely, have them sing throughout the entire thing, which he showed up that he can do. Uh you'd have a goth rock song. Like it doesn't come across as you know ridiculously heavy, but it's got that darkness to it. And again, wolves, wolves are fucking cool too.
SPEAKER_01It's gotta have wolves, right? Wolves, wolves, and vampires. Yeah, the werewolves beat the shit out of vampires. I'm just saying. Hey, speaking of werewolves, uh, there's that movie coming out this year.
SPEAKER_00Uh I saw the trailer, like, dude, that looks hella creepy.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we'll see. We'll see.
SPEAKER_00I think there's another werewolf movie coming out called Wolf and the Lamb, too.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_00Something like that. I saw a trailer for it. Like, man, are we getting crazy for werewolves again?
SPEAKER_01Yes, we are. I guess we are. I'm all for it. I'm all for it. I know the howling, American Werewolf in London. I mean, my number five, I'm going with Cradle of Filth, and I'm going with Nymphetamine Fix, which actually features Live Christine on vocals. Amazing song. Um, arguably the most atmospheric song from them, one of the most atmospheric songs, a gothic poem in metal form, is basically what it is. Live Christine's vocals are gorgeous combined with Danny's shrieks. I think it's a really epic song, and it's one of the ones that instantly grabbed me. I was just that was the song from the album that made me go, Oh yeah, I want to buy this album. And um Nymphetamine was uh the album that got me into Cradle Filth because it was more accessible than some of their earlier stuff.
SPEAKER_00I remember didn't they do they did a video for that song? Yeah. It had like yeah, Live was on a swing. Yep.
unknownYep.
SPEAKER_00Cleavage kept getting closer to the TV screen.
SPEAKER_01Oh yeah, you know, hey course it sure is tight.
SPEAKER_00I hope she can breathe.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, I None of us were complaining, right? None of us were complaining at all.
SPEAKER_00No, no, no. No, no. All right. Next one list. We brought up this band in passing, but I don't think we brought up well. I I brought up one album and it's it's the one. TMAT.
SPEAKER_02Oh, nice.
SPEAKER_00Song Whatever That Hurts. Uh, that's probably my favorite TMAT song. I I do like the old death metal stuff, even though it's Sumerian Christ garbage recording in terms of like the production. But Wild Honey, and by extension, the guy EP too. That is why I think again, like one of those bands that just like wrote like some of the best goth metal out there that just kind of I don't know, it kind of didn't catch on immediately because they changed from death metal, but whatever that hurts, that song is gloriously heavy, it's got the atmosphere, the riffs in it are you know a little bit of an echo of death metal in there, but it's still very much that goth metal realm. The clean vocals are nice, they're kind of raspy and a little bit sinister sounding. God, when it gets heavy though, like the big, doomy, just gloriously heavy riffs. The production of that album is amazing. Uh, yeah, I strongly recommend that one for anyone that hasn't heard it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Excellent, excellent. My number four, I've got Lacuna Coil with Swamped. Um, you know, it opens comalies off, it's accessible, like I've talked about many times, but it does have that Eastern, Middle Eastern quality to it, which was really cool and and apparently intentional. Christina was trying to get that sound. Uh, but yeah, they just had a great dynamic between the male and female vocals. And it was the first um it was one of the first songs I heard from them because uh Heaven's A Lie was the first, because that was the more popular song. But Swamped was probably the next most popular song, and then also it kicked the album off, so it's the first song you hear when you throw the album in. Just incredible, incredible rock uh vibe, but also got that um great layering to it. Love it.
SPEAKER_00My next one, surprisingly, is Lacuna Coil swamped. What uh yeah, I love I've I've always loved that song. Yeah, like her vocals, and I love how they set those vocals a little bit further back in the mix because it almost sounds like she's like singing from a ziggurat, yeah, like from the top of the point, and then kind of like projecting it downwards. Uh that Middle Eastern touch immediately got me. They played that one live too. I was like, dude, this song is fucking killer. Her voice is amazing. Um, but yeah, like it's got that solid groove, there's a big, beefy riff behind it, so it's got a good heavy appeal to it. It has the atmosphere, it's got the melodic hooks, like it's it's just a well-written song. It's yeah, you know, like it's it's arguably a single, like they probably wrote that one's like, yeah, that. Yeah, I think that one's good right away. Yeah, definitely. Wow.
SPEAKER_01That was is that the first crossover? Um, I think we've had crossover bands, yeah. But song, wow, song wise, I think. Well, I mean, there's still two more spells. Well, there's two more. Let's see what we get. I am guessing there's a couple bands. I I think two of these bands are gonna be on there for sure for you. Um, my number three though is The Gathering with Strange Machines. It has a much more gothic rock feel at times, but the guitars are metallic. Uh, Onyx uh singing is fantastic. She has a very powerful delivery on this one. Very muddy riffs at times, can remind me of Doom, and it has a fantastical quality to it, very daydream-like. So you love that song. It's one of my favorite goth metal songs, period. You know, it's just gorgeous.
SPEAKER_00I need to get those early gathering albums.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah, you gotta get them. You gotta get Mandy Line. They did, I think. Mine's a reissue. Um, I'm gonna hunt them down.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I bought mine online because I haven't seen them in stores, so I bought if then else new and then they broke up like not long after that album. Like, well, fuck yeah, yeah. All right, my number two here. Uh might be a band we've brought up a lot. Uh Paradise Lost. But here's the thing it's not an older song, it's a newer song. In fact, it's off of their last album, Tyrant Serenade. Oh, second track. Yeah, yeah. You heard it, you know why. It is infectious. Like, yeah, oh god, man. I've been listening to this band for years, but I've listened to that song enough. It's almost like top five choruses, like the balance between the roars and the singing. He's got this his his delivery is so fucking good. The production of that album is beautiful, the riffs are so damn heavy. Uh, you feel it again, like it's evocative. Like you can feel all the gloominess in the verses and how the chorus it does kind of soar a bit, but the growls keep it kind of like tethered back down to that fucking just huge, heavy, chunky sound. Paradise Lost rules. I guess cap it off of that. Any arguments, you're you're dead wrong.
SPEAKER_01No, no arguments for me. In fact, Paradise Lost is my second pick as well. All right, but it is uh is an older song, it is hallowed land. Um I love the guitar tone at the start here from from uh Gregor Macintosh. It reminds me of Fields of the Nephilim and with a cleaner sound. Uh it has this that swirly psychedelic sound, and Nick Holmes is singing cleanly on this one, no growls, no grunting. Uh, it's just a gorgeous uh gothic rock slash metal song. Just fantastic.
SPEAKER_00That's what they do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's what they do. Now, I'm I'm guessing our number ones are gonna be the same band, but maybe different songs here.
SPEAKER_00It might be. Yeah. Well, all right. It's typo negative. All right, everyone's everyone's shocked right now. Yeah, shocked. Hush fell over the crowd. I heard it. Yes. Uh, my song, though, in praise of Bacchus. Oh, okay. There is something about that song, like the soft beginning, the breathy vocals, uh, just hearing him build up the tension to she hates me. Yeah. And into those glorious melodies. Like, holy shit, in terms of like some of the most melodic riffs that Kenny has ever played in a typo album. Those might be it. I I love that song. Like, that's always been a favorite of mine. Again, my favorite album, the Silver World coming down as a whole, but there's something about the the energy on October Rust that just fits October and gothiness perfectly. And that song, fucking beautiful. It's a perfect song in my mind. It's gorgeous from start to finish.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, typo is my number one as well, but it is Wolf Moon. Ooh. Wolf Moon. Uh, it's one of my favorite songs of all time. The mood, the atmosphere, the melodies, my god. It's just uh it's just a dark, beautiful, romantic song. Even if we talked about the subject matter being a little ridiculous, it's still romantic. I mean, it's there's something romantic about it. Have you ever seen the movie Meridian? No, I haven't.
SPEAKER_00No, it's there's there's werewolf romance in there with Cheryl and Finn.
SPEAKER_01Okay. But you know, it just builds and builds to this epic finale, and they just had such good harmonies and uh catchy hooks, and this is one of them. And I love the keyboards on this Josh Silver, you mentioned before. Uh, he's just making it sound he makes it sound like a creepy full moon. I don't really know how you do that, but he just nailed the mood with his keyboards. It's almost like you know, someone said, Josh, give me a full moon on keyboard, and he did it. Like, it's just um it's amazing. I mean, one of my favorite songs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, there we go. Again, vibe always captured on those type of albums.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Gothic metal is um, I think, you know, we talked about death metal being here to stay. What about gothic metal? Is Gothic Metal here to stay?
SPEAKER_00I think Gothic Metal is here to stay. Again, it's it's more more niche, I would say. Yeah. You know, it gets you know, we've already talked about bands that have kind of like bordered on it a little bit. Like we have goth elements like Doom bands, Doom's definitely here to stay, I'd say. Yeah, so I think elements that will remain, and uh again, I think we had enough of a resurgence that you know there's newer bands that are coming out with like a kind of a classic sound that I know I wasn't the only one going, hey, that shit sounds pretty fucking cool. Yeah, uh, so I think you know, maybe a few years ago I'd be like, I don't know. I mean, you know, losing Pete hurt. Like it hurt momentum for the style because you know, even on that last album, it was fucking awesome. I love that one. That was a great album. Um, yeah, but I don't know. I think I think we're actually in a better spot than I I thought we were a couple of years ago. So you know, we'll see. It again it's predicated on you know newer bands coming in and putting out killer albums. So here's to the newer goth bands. Get out there and fucking do it.
SPEAKER_01That's right. Goth is never gonna die as a style. Like that's that's here to stay, no matter what the OG goths, the trad goths say, you know, they always like to say goth is dead. It's not dead.
SPEAKER_00Um, they want everything to be dead.
SPEAKER_01Well, they want everything to be dead, yeah. They they they thought when the Batcave Club closed it was dead back in 1985 or whenever it's like there's been a run of like hyper conservative goths out there that I've seen.
SPEAKER_00Like, dude, your existence doesn't make any fucking sense.
SPEAKER_01No, not at all. Not at all. Alright, let's spin the wheel. Let's see what we got for the month of August. Here we go. We're spinning the wheel. Oh boy. What did we get? Oh, you've got to be shitting me. What do we got? It's doom metal.
SPEAKER_00We wheeled it into existence. We talked enough about it.
SPEAKER_01We talked enough about it. I mean, are you guys gonna get sick of this type of metal? I mean, I I it's it's different enough. It's different. I mean, typo negative, no. Well, Paradise Lost might make it on this one though, too. Well, my dying bride will make it. Um, but then we we'll talk about the classic 80s Doom bands, because you know, actually, Doom is perfect because Doom is so all over the place. Kind of reminds me of Death Metal with uh just how many different types of Doom Metal there are, because you get the funeral doom, you get the death doom, you get the you get the traditional epic doom, you know, like because if you if you take like trouble, oh yeah, you compare it to like Bell Witch or uh something, it's like not even in the same category, you would think. It's like what the hell? Like Bell Witch. Esoteric and yeah, oh esoteric.
SPEAKER_00Say yeah, or what's I I have I have a lot of esoteric albums, all of them are double disc.
SPEAKER_02Oh, jeez.
SPEAKER_00Oh, I I saw them at MDF. Oh, you did? Oh my god. I did that was an experience. Like face melting heavy.
SPEAKER_01Well, guys, get ready because uh if you thought gothic metal was bleak, wait till we get to doom metal. Um, you'll want to crawl into your grave um like immediately. So stay tuned. We'll be doing death metal next. Thanks for joining us. What doom? You said death metal. Oh sorry, doom. I can't I can't speak, man. Doom metal. Doom. All right, we'll see you next time.