Episode #051 From his first duck hunt in South Central Louisiana to training his very own hunting dog, Cullam Pope has been a passionate outdoorsman since childhood. On this special episode of Build From Here, we welcome CGA member Cullam as he shares his journey and the challenges he's faced while training his Labrador Retriever, Beau. Join us as we listen to the inspiring story of dedication, resourcefulness, and the unbreakable bond between a hunter and his dog.
As a father, Cullam has been passing down his love for hunting to his sons, emphasizing the importance of conservation and respect for the environment. We delve into his past experiences during the '70s and '80s and how the sport has evolved over time. Cullam also highlights the value of teaching woodsmanship to young people and how squirrel hunting can help hone those essential skills.
Tune in as Cullam shares the ups and downs of training his first hunting dog; from the first click and treat to the breakthrough moment, Beau finally fetched a dummy. Discover how he found unique solutions to overcome obstacles in training and the role his son played in the process. You don't want to miss this heartwarming tale of perseverance and the joys of sharing a lifelong passion with the next generation.
Want to train your dog like Cullam? Visit https://www.cornerstonegundogacademy.com/52-plus-page
Episode #051 From his first duck hunt in South Central Louisiana to training his very own hunting dog, Cullam Pope has been a passionate outdoorsman since childhood. On this special episode of Build From Here, we welcome CGA member Cullam as he shares his journey and the challenges he's faced while training his Labrador Retriever, Beau. Join us as we listen to the inspiring story of dedication, resourcefulness, and the unbreakable bond between a hunter and his dog.
As a father, Cullam has been passing down his love for hunting to his sons, emphasizing the importance of conservation and respect for the environment. We delve into his past experiences during the '70s and '80s and how the sport has evolved over time. Cullam also highlights the value of teaching woodsmanship to young people and how squirrel hunting can help hone those essential skills.
Tune in as Cullam shares the ups and downs of training his first hunting dog; from the first click and treat to the breakthrough moment, Beau finally fetched a dummy. Discover how he found unique solutions to overcome obstacles in training and the role his son played in the process. You don't want to miss this heartwarming tale of perseverance and the joys of sharing a lifelong passion with the next generation.
Want to train your dog like Cullam? Visit https://www.cornerstonegundogacademy.com/52-plus-page
Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy online resources to help you train your retriever.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Build From Here podcast. On this episode we have CJA member Colin Pope super excited. He is the first one in our studio here. They were all set up so it's a big moment. We're excited to have you on and celebrate you. How are you doing? Doing great, glad to be here, Glad to have you here. It's man. you've been with us for a little while now, so we won't jump straight into the dog story. I want to get a little background because I always love for the people that are listening to the episode to get to know you a little bit. just to know some context, because obviously if you're a Gun Dog Academy member, you love some hunting. so what's your story there? How did you fall in love with a great outdoors?
Speaker 3:Well, i grew up in South Central Louisiana and had a family friend that got included in some duck hunts on the coast of Louisiana back in the 70s and early 80s and was just hooked on that. That was always still my favorite hunting that I've ever done. They always had great dogs, lots of ducks. Now I live in Mississippi. Now I have for some time and I've got property that I hunt in the South Mississippi Delta. We have great deer hunting. We have all kinds of game.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:Everything's very and I've been trying to establish duck hunting for my sons the way I had it growing up. It's been challenging, but it's coming along. My youngest son has been asking for a dog since he could talk and we finally decided to get him a puppy. one of the puppies that's connected to Barton went through Barton and got him a dog for his 14th birthday. That's awesome And started so this is a dog's name is Beau. He's not quite three now and we've been. I've been just going through it, that's awesome.
Speaker 3:And we're, the duck hunt is coming along. Beau didn't hunt him his first year, kind of left him at home, for that got him 52-week plus didn't happen in 52 weeks for me, it kind of happens in chunks each year. Hunting season in particular, the training for me and I say the only thing wrong with my dog is handler related for sure. But Beau hunted this past year, picked up a lot of ducks and it's you know we're. you know I'm in week 45 now. That's awesome. I got to come back with it this spring and it's all about handling now And he does. he did. his steadiness and his drive to retrieve is couldn't be better. You know we're working on handling now And that's I think. once we get that handling polished up, i think he's going to be where where we all think he can be.
Speaker 2:So That's good. So you said you hunted in the 70s and 80s. I guess that's when, when we're in, we're in the lead right.
Speaker 3:Definitely She's some six shot lead and it worked really really good From what I remember.
Speaker 2:Imagine so. So Louisiana that's I've always heard that's a good, good hunting. there I've only done a little bit of hunting there It was.
Speaker 3:You know, in those days it was just, you know, every the Mississippi flyway all migrated. You know, you seemed like in those days there was a at least the way I remember it there was a more consistent push of ducks that just migrated right there. So we had, you know, it seemed like you had new ducks all the time. The way I remember that camp running is that they had these massive spreads of decoys that did not ever pick a decoy up. They were always out there and ducks came, came in, because it was always new ducks. I'm finding, you know, things we've worked a little harder these days, oh yeah, but when I was a kid and I, you know I may have looked at all that through different lens than I do now.
Speaker 2:Well, that's possible to you. So what? who was the first person that took you on a hunt, like, were you hunting from a child?
Speaker 3:or Yeah, i probably started going when I was about nine or 10 or something like that, and my father would take me with his buddy and Do you remember your first experience in the in the duck blind? Yeah, yeah, i do. I remember hunting in in my first duck hunt was over near Lake Charles And I think my dad took me down there and we got with a guy and sat in the blind and saw almost nothing And I think yeah, i think we had one.
Speaker 3:What what they call in that area? they call a gray duck. As a gadwall flew by, i had a single shot, h&r 20 age, with that lead. Six shot in there and never shot a duck before and and, and you know, drop the duck.
Speaker 2:Really, it was a cripple. That's awesome.
Speaker 3:I think the guy had to go out and get it. I don't know. I don't think we collected it, but that was the very first hunt Saw one duck, one shot, that was it. But I was still still interested, and then some much better hunts happened later.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Yeah, i mean that's. that's good for your first duck to to hit, i mean. I don't think I hit my first duck for some time in in the hunting there I was. I was shooting a lot, i wasn't hitting a lot.
Speaker 3:Right, it's. You see it now. you know, some kids are. You know, if you take a kid and they have a bad experience, some kids will say you know, i don't want to do that again, and some kids are just all about it anyway. And I think that was one of those kids. I just liked everything about it, whether there was action or not.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's hard not to. It's so fun to be out on the blind. What was your first experience with a retriever in the field?
Speaker 3:Okay, so as I started to continue to get to you know, usually over Christmas time I'd get invited down to. This was in Baccon Island. I'd get to get out and hunt at a nice camp down there And my host, our family friend, had a beautiful golden retriever that was really well trained and did a you know steady. I was amazed by it. The dog just did. It seemed to me at the time that the dog knew what everybody was thinking and just did what was required. Right, and maybe he did. You know, maybe that's the way it was, but I was. You know that that was definitely all that stuff happening around that, you know, 10, 11, 12, 13 years old. That really shapes you. Shapes you how you think about what you want to pursue.
Speaker 3:Yeah it was definitely important.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so that kind of you were pretty much hooked. So that was whatever you were going to be doing, was going to be involved with hunting of some sort, it sounds like Yeah, I think so Yeah. So where did you get from there? So that was your first experience, you know, obviously, growing going up through high school and all that, what was kind of your hunting like at that point? Where are you getting out?
Speaker 3:a lot by yourself, yeah, i mean, i think that we, you know it was a small game for me when I was, when I was not doing that. It was, you know we were. We did a lot of squirrel hunting. Yeah, and not with a dog. We, you know we, we have we have a squirrel dog now that we run sometimes, but you know, it was all you know. You and your friends would go out and pocket full of shells and go go hunt squirrels. Some rabbits would be involved. You might get a dove hunt or two at the beginning of the beginning of the year And deer hunting wasn't as big as in the 80s. We weren't. We didn't hunt, hunt deer as much. We'd turkey hunting the spring. But I think that that doing all that squirrel hunting, i think that really is a great way for young people to learn woodsmanship because you really you get out there and you're moving through areas of of the woods that you wouldn't ordinarily.
Speaker 1:Yeah, That's pretty cool And I think that it you know if you want to.
Speaker 3:I had a guy that tell me one time that was involved, involved in those those years with me. So if you want to know where deer are budding, ask the squirrel hunter, because they're. They're out there in those weird areas where nobody ever walks.
Speaker 2:It makes sense If you just deer hunt.
Speaker 3:you're slipping in and slipping out, but if you've done some, you know, if you're out there busting the brush doing that other sport, then you, you really know the woods. I think it's a great way for for young people to get started. Oh, that's great. Small game hunting.
Speaker 2:So it sounds like kind of what I'm hearing you, a couple of things that I've heard you said. You know you kind of were hunting in the 70s and 80s for waterfowl, loving the deer hunting. You sound like you kind of have a little heart, a bit of a heart for conservation it seems to Sure. Let's talk about that for a minute. Cause hunting 70s and 80s versus now. you're having to work harder for it. What's you know, is that pretty important to you to support conservation?
Speaker 3:Oh, i think so for sure. I mean, i think you know there were times back then when ducks were scarcer too. I remember the point system that people talk about. I remember hunting when every duck you killed had a point value assigned to Well, you know, if you shot a, you know if you killed a redhead or a canvas back you were done for the day and you might I don't remember everything about it, but it was. there were really limiting what you could shoot back then, how much, how many birds you could kill. So that had happened back then too.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:I think, from a conservation standpoint, where you know I've got, you know, land that's in WRE, which is, you know, wetland reclamation programs. You know, taking marginal farmland and converting it back into wetlands that support ducks. Yeah, i've got a bunch of land in that that I'm working all the time to, you know, be in compliance with, and that's what that's all about creating. You know, where there used to be soybean fields, now we've got, you know, invertebrates that gadwalls can feed on. Wow, you know, moysole grasses are being cultivated out in all this acreage. I think it's a great program That's awesome That we participate in.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's great. I think that's especially for the future generations. So you've got your son. I remember when first member weekend came out, yeah, you had your father's son, you had Bo there, and so obviously for the next generation it's important to keep that heritage going For sure, for sure.
Speaker 3:You know I've, you know, put those boys in a lot of you know the best I could have put them in situations that I thought I was in when I was younger, and you know they're both. I've got two sons. They're both really into it. Yeah, good woodsman. That's awesome For sure, i mean, i mean, i think that's a good way to get out and walk.
Speaker 2:I love a good just in the fall, especially just as you're going out through the woods. It's hard to teach a kid how to move in the woods quietly and not, you know it's, but they, it's kind of it's a little bit like the dog training.
Speaker 3:It's like you know this first few years you're like you have to pick your feet up. You got to pick your feet up. Don't step on the sticks. You know, avoid all that After a while they do. Yeah, so, yeah, so yeah. It's a good way to get out and walk, you know, avoid all that. After a while they do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i'm not quite there yet. My, my little girl is still young and we've got another one on the way, so we'll, we'll see, see as we get.
Speaker 3:That's a good place to be in. You got it all to look forward to. Oh no, i'm excited.
Speaker 2:It's already going by so fast. It's just crazy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3:I mean when I you know I've first got the place that I'm talking about. They were like eight and nine years old, So they're now you know, sophomore, junior and high school, both bigger than I am. So about five minutes ago, Yeah, Wow.
Speaker 2:That is crazy. That is crazy. So well, so big, in in all outdoors. it sounds like how did, how did you make that decision? And it sounded like maybe your son was one of the reasons you made a decision to get a dog. Is that something you all had been dreaming about before? Or was it just something that it was more he wanted, or like you had been thinking about it?
Speaker 3:He wanted a dog and I thought, yeah, i think he needs to have a dog. He really does. He's kept this up for a long time. I think he's serious about it And if we're going to have one, i want it to be a dog that can work. Yeah, and and so you know, took that very seriously I want our job, our dogs to be. You know, do a job, and you know my passion is hunting and and you know, and duck hunting in particular. So there was no choice for me. It was going to be, it was going to be a lab. I reached out to a friend of mine that has a fantastic dog that I think they got from keys years ago and and just got hooked in. You know, just met him and he was gracious to me and just got involved with the whole program there.
Speaker 2:So That's awesome. So puppy pickup. When did you find out about Cornerstone? Did you already have your dog? Did you? were you researching how to train a dog? Were you even thinking about training the dog yourself?
Speaker 3:You know, i think when I started talking to Keith about it, that seed was being planted that this is a possibility. Yeah, and it was very much like you know. It just happened very naturally. I told him you know, i think I'd like to do it myself, but I need, i need to be spoon fed how to do this. He said well, funny, you say that because you know we've got. We've got something I think you might, might, should look at. And I did. I was like that's, that's exactly what I need to do.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:I need as much. I need to be shown exactly what to do. It's a in order to get, because it's it's a lot of elbow grease. You can't take the elbow grease out of it, but you know, it helps me to know that every day I go out with that dog. You know, i know what I'm about to do.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And I'm going to be able to achieve that without without that guidance.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. So when, when, when he taught to him about that, I guess, did you think about it for a bit? Are you kind of like, Hey, let's go ahead and pull the trigger and dive in and it was obvious Yeah, i needed it, it was.
Speaker 3:It was obvious what to do Awesome.
Speaker 2:What was your first experience like diving into the course, when you opened it up and just started giving it a try?
Speaker 3:You know I remember getting him out and you know, you know I've realized I needed to get certain things together And what I remember most is going and buying the materials to build a place board. Yeah, i'd never thought it was the first time I ever heard the word place board. And the first thing you do that I remember, you know, kind of working on, is you get your. You know you get your puppy to put its feet up on the place board and get on there And you know it, it all went very, very smoothly And he seemed to want to do. You know he was just a kind of a little machine when he was seven weeks old. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:And it's one of my favorite parts of the training. Just the first, i mean the initial start. You know, when my wife she filmed 52 plus or we, she didn't know what she was getting into.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I don't think yeah, we're going to film this dog training There's a lot. She didn't quite realize how long that was going to take.
Speaker 3:This is going to be your life. It was.
Speaker 2:I don't think she realized that. I told her I was like, yeah, it's more than you think, there's a lot to it, but you know that first click the first treat on the board. I mean I remember us filming that And I remember. I like I remember it as like it is yesterday now, but just like thinking, yeah, at least we got the first thing done. First step in the right direction we got.
Speaker 3:we got a long road ahead, but it's always good to see that that first part just Very encouraging to have that first, those first few lessons that are doable and the dog can naturally do. Yeah, it was great.
Speaker 2:It was great, that's awesome, so you go through. That was a big moment for you, and did your son? was he involved with this part of the training too? As much as he can be, you know he's you know they're, you know, as students.
Speaker 3:You know he's in school all the time and doing his thing, but he wants to come out and train whenever we can. He's come to two training weekends, as you know, and had a great time. He'd like would have loved to have come up here this time.
Speaker 3:He'll be back, he'll be, back Good, but you know a lot of the training that you know. To get in there and really get to do the consistent training has really happens when he's in school. They get out the door and I'll shape my day so that I this is what works for me They get out the door and I go straight and do that. Well, it's cool in the morning and so I'll go through it with him, keep him up to date, show him what we've done, so that way when we're in the field he can handle the dog. But unfortunately he has to go sit in math class and chemistry and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:It is tough. I bet that's eaten him up.
Speaker 3:He would stop school in a heartbeat if we said it was okay and just figure that stuff out on his own. But, like I say, i try to keep him abreast of what's happening so that he can't handle the dog along with me. So that's awesome.
Speaker 2:So kind of picking back up What point of the training journey you're early on. What was your mindset like around week three to ten, somewhere in there, when you had some success? This is your first dog. Things have gone pretty well thus far. Maybe you run in a couple of bumps, but overall pretty good. What was your mindset at this point? What were you thinking about, like the rest of the training and everything?
Speaker 3:I was looking forward to getting to the hunting part. I knew that was coming and I would peek ahead and see what was coming up. I'm very locked into just grinding, just going in order and following the program. The first ten weeks I think went very smoothly. I don't recall having too much trouble at that time.
Speaker 2:It was moving through what's happening at that time It's obedience mostly Obedience combining It's more your transition really from basic obedience to intermediate obedience and really the next phase from there is advanced obedience, where you're transitioning into the field work Right.
Speaker 3:And trying to get him to be a socially acceptable dog upfront and into mind and do our thing with him. That first member's only weekend I came to and everybody's dog was. I remember you said hands up everybody's dog that's under a year old and everybody's hand went up So we all got our dogs. Puppy pickup happened in COVID. These dogs were socialized a little differently than you might ordinarily. It's not a problem long term. They have their might bark a little bit at a stranger for a minute, but that doesn't last. But yeah, the first ten weeks were good and I thought you know I'm clearly a genius and this is perfect and everything's going to be fine And you know, at week 10, I've got 42 weeks left and we're finished.
Speaker 2:Yeah, And you think you're, you're like we're getting real close on this. Let me look at the calendar.
Speaker 3:What day will I be done with this?
Speaker 2:Cause you know, that's what I was thinking.
Speaker 2:Typically go that way, unfortunately you know, that's why we always say we help people know where to start, what to do next and then how to solve problems. And there's a reason we put that how to solve problems in there For sure, yeah, cause I mean they come up. And our goal is not just for someone to follow the program which it is you should follow it reasonably close but the goal is is for people to learn as they go through it. And I learn how to think like a turner. Not just learn get your dog to do stuff, but learn how your dog works, why it functions that way. And then how can you take that knowledge and be prepared to solve problems when they arise? you know, i mean, it's just it's going to happen. What was kind of your first um roadblock? you know, typically people will hit two or three. Well, i would consider major roadblocks when they're training their dogs. And when I say major roadblock, that's a point where they're pulling their hair out, thinking that their dog, they, they might need to go get another dog.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i mean, i don't think I'd I never felt that way, but I did come to places a couple of two, three times where I thought just really it just out of my comfort zone is where I would put it, where I think I don't know how to solve this, i'm not sure what to do here. Um, a lot of times I could push through, just keep trying, look ahead a little bit in the in the program and see where we're headed. So I have to. you know, i can get tunnel vision on this week and this lesson and just sit there and grind on this lesson. Well, sometimes it helps to get a little bit of go, get some feedback from some other members or look ahead and see what we're really trying to accomplish here, take a break, change locations, something like that, and get through it. Um, the first big problem I had is, i think, probably very common. uh is somewhere about week 18, give or take.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 3:That's when you're, you know, stopping and you're getting the pup to fetch the dummy. Just hold the dummy in his mouth. Now the dog puts everything in his mouth because it gets everything. Bowling ball doesn't matter, he's going to put it in his mouth. And so we're out here doing our work and he won't put a dummy's mouth. And is he just the craziest thing? And I'm not the only one, and it's just a, it's just a funny quirk to this training. I mean, i don't fully understand it, but I had had a bunch of trouble with that And you know, i stopped on week 18 for a long time It might have been 17, 16, somewhere in there, um, but I can remember sitting and, you know, had the little plastic fence set up with the run in it and we were about there and we were just stuck on them fetching, essentially fetch a dummy.
Speaker 2:You know, i think a lot of that's a hard place to be Like, that's a hard spot Like I get it cause, like you, you've had so much success up to that point. Things have gone fairly well and you're hoping that you're really. I think what makes that spot hard is, if you look ahead at all, you realize I'm about to be using a launcher, i'm about to be doing a bunch of fun stuff, which is what I really was looking forward to, right, and I think there's this one little section that goes right before it. And for people that are not using our program, um, other ways of training, whole conditioning or, in a standard American style for sketch, and those programs take to, you know, quite a. It can take a while, four, six, eight weeks, depending on the dog. So, fortunately, typically, i would say the way we've done it, unless you hit a, a snag, it'll go a little bit faster than your standard routes of doing it.
Speaker 2:But it's a very mentally challenging thing for the handler and the dog, cause it really I think I don't know this. Up until that point you can kind of skate by, if that makes sense. Yeah, you can get by it and maybe not realize it. But when you get to this point, there is no, there's no as a get and buy. I mean you, it's going to test your muster a bit. You really gotta.
Speaker 3:Well, now that we're talking about it, i'm remembering more. Um, the memory is cranking a little slower than it used to. You know, getting him to hold the bumper properly, he would play with the bumper. Yeah, We, we're not trying to play with it, we're trying to work with the bumper. So I've got a great picture of my son Clay when he was at the members weekend and it was like the dog and him, and I've got this close up shot of them both. He's holding the bumper in front of the dog's face and the dogs looking at him and they're just at this stalemate and they, you know it's nothing's happening, but they're going to just sit there until he, you know, try to get him to fetch it for a hot dog. Yeah, and we were going through that. Now This is all kind of coming back to me.
Speaker 2:So he would. I do remember that because I remember at member weekend we did a little demonstration on fetch, hold and release and um, yeah, i remember us working a little bit after and obviously it says that well, you're not going to solve it today, but I mean we were working and we had the hot dog and it was a bunch of people.
Speaker 3:You would sit sitting in chairs holding a bumper and yeah, I remember that.
Speaker 3:And the dogs looking at him like I don't know what you want me to do. Yeah, so, but you know, worked through it. He was in in the end with this dog and I don't know if this is this is just a quirky thing with him. We had some scrap lumber around and he loved this piece of two by four that I noticed. He would always get it in his mouth and it was about the same size as a bumper. It was the same size of bumper and he would walk around with that in his mouth all the time, and so at some point I just put the bumper away and did the started doing that week with this little two by four. That's awesome And we'd had. We did that for about three days and then we put the bumper in and he, that was it.
Speaker 2:That is crazy. Something as little as that, huh, that's amazing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:What? so you just started. I guess you're kind of sitting there thinking about it and just like, hey, maybe he, maybe he'll like, maybe he'll like this.
Speaker 3:He was already putting that in his mouth and carrying it around in the proper way, like he was fetching it right in the middle. Wow, you know, and just the way you want to hold it, hold the bumper. So I just saw that happening and just substituted it and it didn't take long at all. He was holding, he would hold the bumper. That's fantastic.
Speaker 2:And that's that's what I love, too is thinking outside the box, i mean, and that's what we want for people to do, and that's a great example. I love all the different ways I hear members thinking, and that's a really great way to think outside the box You'd take you're taking something that he's already doing good and then using it to your advantage.
Speaker 3:I think we polished that stuff up in our in his our personal history. You kind of polish it. I just gave him the two by four and three days later, boom done. But in reality I was probably frustrated for three weeks or something like that. But it was, it was a little bit of a thing. I've kind of forgotten that part.
Speaker 2:It took a minute took a while, So how did it feel coming out of that? I mean, I guess it was amazing.
Speaker 3:It was like you really can work this, you really. This can really happen If there's doubts creep in.
Speaker 2:You're like is my dog going to turn out, you know? is it going to be? that's easy. Like anytime a problem arises, i mean I feel like that's the first thing that's going to come up at your. You start thinking well, okay, you know and some of that is too is the level of standard you're training to too. Like you know some people and that's what you can't really tell. Like you see people talking all about their dogs. Yeah, my dog did fine. I, you know, i did whole condition or whatever, and I was done in like three days.
Speaker 2:But there's also a standard that we're shooting for. I mean, for us we're going for pretty much perfect delivery. We want our dog to grab it in the right spot. We want our dog to come put it in our hands without us having to reach for it. We just want to hold out our hand and the dog puts it in her hand and then it's ready for the next retrieve. That's a whole lot more work than a dog just grabbing something coming in, either just dropping it at your feet or just dragging it by the tail or dragging it by the string of the bumper. That's two different things, and so some of that I would say could be that That's a good thing, that you're frustrated because you weren't settling for a lesser standard.
Speaker 3:Right. I think it's important, like a lot of this stuff, that you're building these skills one little increment at a time, and if you decide that one of these little things is insignificant, you skip it. It's going to speak later And so I learned, very, very honestly, i don't know why we're doing this, but I'm going to do it because you know, i think that I did that a little bit with whistle stop in the very beginning. Whistle sit Yeah, whistle sit in the very beginning And I thought, well, i'm going to tell him to sit. I think I didn't even realize that I was just going to skip whistle sit. Well, that's important, because that's whistle stop, absolutely.
Speaker 3:And then whistle stop is handling And so that experience. you know, when I see that there's a detail that needs to be polished, there's a reason for that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Yeah, Absolutely Yeah. We pretty much, I think. Everything that's in there. There wasn't any filler, You know. I mean you got to think about it. We're filming for 56 weeks, So we didn't want to take any extra time to add any filler that didn't need to be there. If it was relevant to creating an incredible retriever, we put it in there. If it wasn't, you know we didn't do any like fancy tricks or anything.
Speaker 2:We focused on a incredible, consistent retriever, which is what we're hoping for, For sure. Yeah, So what so? going out of that moment, you face the challenge. You ever came the challenge. That's another thing we I love about telling. Allowing people to tell their stories and the opportunity of you coming on to share your story gets mixed out. It is you get to share those triumphs, What, what was all that like?
Speaker 3:as you're going and moving forward into launchers and everything else, Well, you know it's important, I think, to you know, you have this little thing that you're trying to do that you're having trouble with and you work through it. Now you've passed that, you're on to something else. Well, you, you know, it's like anything else and you go through through in life. You, you know okay, well, i have that same feeling now I'm trying to get through this week and I'm having trouble. Well, we know we can get through this. I'm not sure how, but you know we're going to, we're going to keep working on it, make it happen. Yeah, yeah, you know the. He always did well with with, with, you know, marked retrieves, launchers never gave him any problems. He never. You know, i was easy. I was worried he was going to have trouble with gunfire. No problems there, fortunately. Another major problem I had as we moved into launchers and you know wingers yeah, whenever I have an opportunity to work with a winger, he was completely unable to deal with a string on a dummy.
Speaker 3:Really, He would just lose his mind and just go into play mode. Oh yeah, he would. He would come to a dummy with a string on it It could, you know and he would just grab that string and just start. He would lose his mind and start playing And he's spinning around a circle with a tip of the string in his mouth. It was just ridiculous.
Speaker 2:Oh, man, that that had to get you going there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I, you know, i just couldn't seem to do anything about it. And, and you know, i checked in with you know, with the group, and I think Keith told me he's like, cut that string off, cut the string off. And I thought, yeah, i didn't think of that, yeah, and that was the end of the problem for a while. And he's matured Out of it. For, you know, every once in a while I, you know, i had one dummy with a string. I thought I need to have some trouble with it for a while, but now he's passed it, it's over, and you just kind of grew out of it.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. The one thing I want to hit on there too. I think a lot of people think that you know, maybe I'll just let it just keep happening and the problem will eventually go away. That's not really how it works And that's what I love about how you handled that there, like you didn't just like maybe it'll go away. You're like, Hey, i've got to get help, i've got to figure this out, because if you let it keep going, it that actually is conditioning the dog to keep doing that And it can make the problem significantly worse the longer you let it go.
Speaker 3:Acting. You know cutting up like that when it's work time? Yeah It's. You know that's your. Your hunting simulation? Yeah That's right.
Speaker 3:If you think about thinking about being on a hunt with in your dog decides I'm going to go both wild, you know, and and he has not done that in the field, that's awesome, i think you know it's. I think you want to step on that Now. he's he's a great all around dog. He is a, you know, a great pet also. My wife Pampers him and he's you know he can do all that. But when it's work time, he I've really tried to keep him. he understands when this equipment is on and we're dressed like this or any of these signs, he's he is, it's it's on, he's ready to work.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3:You know, so yeah, that's interesting, you brought it up like that. I'm kind of dredging all this up as we're talking. It's been a while since all that's happened. but we did, we kind of stopped, didn't, didn't ever really allow it. That's amazing. It was tough. It wasn't I didn't just tell him no and it stopped. It was a process. Yeah, i know that I'm thinking about it, yeah, so that's, that's huge.
Speaker 2:So you handled that well. That clearly has served you well. What, um, you said, i believe y'all have hunted correct, y'all? Yes, okay, so let's talk about well, let's. Let's talk about that first season that you let him skip. I know that was tough. What thought process. How old was he? What? all what decisions went into that? Because I think a lot of people mess up there. They want to get their dog real world experience and dogs do need real world experience. But if they're, only if they're ready, let's see, we got him.
Speaker 3:I remember he was a small puppy in October, so he you know he was. Let me think about this. I think the first year was obvious He shouldn't hunt And I think the second year was when it was a possibility that he could hunt, we kept him back one more time, and I think that it would have.
Speaker 3:My thinking was that it was, um, it wasn't just going to be, you know, out there and limiting every time in 30 minutes with constant action. There was going to have to be a giant steadiness element to it, right, right And um, it's almost like with a kid. I don't, i don't like. When my boys were small, i tried not to take them on any too on too many terrible hunts. I took them on plenty of terrible hunts, but it was never intentional. If I knew it was going to be bad and slow, i tried not to take them. If they got bored, we left all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3:I think the same, you know, i wanted I felt like he just wasn't ready to go through that And I wanted him to, you know, be ready to be steady and ready to retrieve, but put him in a position to always think about what you say in the videos. You want to set them up for success and, you know, take him on a hunt that might not have been, that might have been too slow or the retrieves are too challenging. When we weren't, we hadn't been through that work yet, so I just did, you know that. So the first year when it was possible to hunt him, we weren't. I hadn't proved him out in the training And I wanted him to, you know, i wanted to wait until it was going to work well.
Speaker 3:And so this past season, which was, you know, 22, hunting season 22, he, you know, we were, he hunted in a, you know, we set up a mo marsh wherever we were hunting and he, you know, loves that. Mo marsh does extremely well with it, was incredibly steady, and when we had ducks in front of him, he, he was game. That's awesome. Pick him up, you know. So we're still working on some. We're still working on remote handling and that kind of.
Speaker 2:Thing but he's, you know but you got yourself a dog getter. I mean, you got a dog that goes, picks up your ducks and wants to do it.
Speaker 3:That's awesome, really big time. You really, you know, fire it up to do it.
Speaker 2:And I think you did a good job there too, because a lot of people that says the temptation is there, I've got, I've got me a duck dog, I need to take it out there. Well, yeah, maybe. And that's an interesting case because most people I say most, that may be an exaggeration a lot of people will see if they can get by with things like okay, I think my blog is kind of there, I like how you handle it. You're like I. You just clearly weren't 100%, so you just didn't take him, And that's a good move. Too many variables.
Speaker 3:I thought when he was at that level of experience and, as a matter of fact, god, i think I would have forgotten all this if we weren't doing this interview. So what I really what I did at first for him, that first year I took him to a was it Mallard Vale up in up south of Memphis where it's a there's it's like a shooting preserve where they have basically semi wild mallards up there, and I took him up there and shot 10 birds And they're, you know they, they come flying in and you can, you can take them right in, you know, in a good spot for the dog.
Speaker 3:And he got some retrieves the first day we got up there and I'd been, it was time for him you know I've been doing some gun dog training and gotten into that portion of it Got out there with this live shotgun and these birds flying around. He lost his mind again because he was having a new experience and he was jumping in the water at the wrong time. He would see the birds coming in, he was breaking and just kind of just got too excited And so this was the thing where we can't. The guy was nice enough. The night I got there we went and shot some birds that needed to be cleaned up, got that out of the way He would go out and he was ran out and was barking at a cripple. It was just, it was a mess.
Speaker 3:The next morning we got out there and set up in a spot and he sat there steady and picked up ducks And it seems like he just needed to. You know we repeated it. We did it in the in the evening and then we went back the next morning and repeated the situation And it's like he. He was just more calm and you know I should have to bring him along like you would. A child, yes, and you know he had a too excited the first time, settled down the second time That's perfect, So yeah.
Speaker 3:And so things have gone, i guess, pretty well, since then, yeah, so then that happened at the end of I guess it was in 22, but it was at the end of the 21 duck season went up to the shooting preserve, shot some birds for him, had a great time doing that, and then he hunted wild ducks in 22.
Speaker 2:Wow, and so he would have been. You got him in 2020. So he had been around two at that point.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, so we got him in the fall of 20. Okay, so one, two, so he's two years old. So he kind of did the kind of practice hunt with wild, with you know semi wild ducks, and on to sitting in the black, you know, going out in the cold and shooting woodies at first and gadwalls and stuff like that. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:What was your first wild in the wild hunt like? And I guess, what was your let's talk about your, your mindset going into it? Obviously you already had the semi wild hunt, So you kind of had some reference for what you were going to experience. What, how did that go?
Speaker 3:I was alone on the semi wild hunt. Once I was on the wild duck hunt I pretty much I would I brought either my kids or a friend out there and I would sort of make shooting myself a secondary thing. I would kind of put the shot lean shotgun and I was going to work with the dog and kind of call and run the hunt Me. me shooting became sort of maybe it was a little too much for me. Got a lanyard of calls and a dog whistle and the dog and the kids and the guests and something's got to go.
Speaker 3:So I had a great time. If I'm, if I'm putting other people on ducks and they're shooting, that's just fabulous. Oh yeah, i can't beat that. But you know I didn't. You know he I think he was ready. I think holding him back was was the right thing to do, getting enough training under his belt before he had to deal with a wild, because you get out there and you're hunting wild ducks it's very unpredictable and they're coming from that's where you didn't think they were going to come from and they're falling in difficult places.
Speaker 3:All that you know, Yeah, but you know I think he did really well. I think you know we I probably had him to something like week 40 before he went wild, before I took him on a wild duck hunt, That's a good spot to be.
Speaker 2:I mean, at that point I think you're a really good dog on your hand, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So let's go ahead and kind of, where you're going, where you're at now with the handling, that's really your next phase. You run into a challenge there, what you know? let's talk about the challenge and see what we can work through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:So I think the next big stumbling block that I've come across and it was concerning for a number of reasons, and I'm going to remember this one better because I'm in it right now It's not ancient history.
Speaker 3:So he has been doing brilliantly with, you know, directional hand signals, and he always has a drive to go, pick up the bumper and do whatever I want him to do. That stuff was solid. But what happened, you know, when we are now in a place where we want to set the dog up on a remote memory, bring him back, send him on that and then stop him with the whistle, have him look back and then send him on another mark that he doesn't know about. That's what I was working at And he apparently you know what I'm seeing with him is if I send him, if he's on place, and I send him after a bumper that he knows about, it's almost like you know, now I'm giving him a signal that is contrary to what I've just told him to do And he just doesn't seem to grasp that at all, yeah, just as he blow on through, and then he's blown through the whistle and going for that bumper.
Speaker 3:So as I tried to work through that, I was doing all kinds of things to try to get him to stop in the middle of that track so I could stop him, get him to look at me and I could send him where there's another bumper Right. And as I sort of tried to start to push him to do that, he started getting tented. He started, he was on place I would send him and he wouldn't go with the first time in his life.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow He was just he was, you know, just stuck.
Speaker 2:He's like I don't know what to do.
Speaker 3:I don't know what to do, stuck. And then he's out there and he's like looking at me going are you going to blow the whistle at an odd time? I'm not sure what you're going to do. And he started to get tentative instead of just exploding like he usually does, and I thought, okay, i'm making a mistake here. And it wasn't just that I wasn't getting the lesson taught, it was that I was undoing past lessons. Oh yeah, and so that's when I thought I need to. I would like to reach out and get some guidance here, because I thought I was going, i was going backwards. I wasn't just stuck, i was going backwards.
Speaker 2:Yeah, spiraling out of control Right, and so you know that dog was just he.
Speaker 3:The way he acted up to then is I would blow the blow the comeback whistle and he would just come straight. He always comes straight back and he started to sort of be unsure about the whistle, no matter what I was doing with it. So I really felt like I needed to just back up and get some input.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. So what you said? you'd tried a couple of things to like try to get him to stop, but it wasn't really working. What were some of the things you tried?
Speaker 3:I was you know I was getting the second place board and putting it out there and trying to blow the blow the I'd send him and I'd try to blow the blow the stop whistle right at that place board, so he's had given maybe a visual that I'm supposed to stop here And I really just was. I felt like I was making a mess. Yeah, he was confusing him and Did you do any.
Speaker 2:How does he do on the? when you set him out midway between the bumper and then you are sitting towards the bumper, you recall him and you stop him on his way back without a bumper, does he do pretty good on that? He can do that, okay, so we're good there.
Speaker 3:If I call him and stop him. He's got that And I'll. You know, i spent a lot of time. I spent more than just a week going through that, where I would you know cause it takes time When you get in that you have to, as all of these lessons you got to. You can't get out there and be in a hurry. You have to have plenty of time and do your time. So go out there repeatedly and let him go all the way to the bumper just as many times as you stop him. Right, listen to what you said on that very carefully. And so he would. You know.
Speaker 3:There was a time I remember him saying you know I'd stopped him some. You know you start, get him, send him back or call him to you, and he'd be waiting. Are you going to? you know, it was a kind of a. He was anticipating the whistle, but he could do that. But sending him out and trying to stop him when he's on the way to a bumper was that's where that's where it started for me, any other things you tried to work?
Speaker 3:through that. I tried to shorten the distance down. So I was working with the place I was training We had. You know I was trying to put the bumper in some cover and you know I'm working. I'm working with 100 and 125 yards, maybe maybe 150 sometimes, and I was trying to bring that thing down to inside of 50 yards And that unfortunately didn't. I didn't magically fix it.
Speaker 3:And I think he was starting to get a little bit tentative about you know instead of you know, i would send him and he was just tentative about going at this point And I felt like I just needed to stop for a minute.
Speaker 2:That's, that's that can happen. I've got some ideas and some things we could work through. Now there's a couple of ways I typically would work through something like that. Sometimes I'll work through it backwards, if that makes sense. So on one hand it's good to drill down and try to focus on that one problem, but sometimes when we drill down and focus on the one problem too much, it just causes a host of other problems. So sometimes you have to go. Really what I'm saying is position from a different angle which we might want to consider trying. Or we may want to just try a couple of things like put the bumper further away but have the dog stop at like 10 yards. You send them, stop them at 10 yards. Or going back to the vocal command set, then add in the whistle in, and there's just a few different things we can try instead of because obviously I mean there's nothing wrong with what you tried, it just didn't work.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, and it may have worked for another dog, but for this dog it's not working. So what do we do? We just got to keep positioning, positioning different things, different angles, until we get something that works like we want it to. If that doesn't work, my next, you know, i would try probably that initially, just see if we could do it quick. If that doesn't work, then I would go from a completely different angle And I would build confidence on driving out. I know this sounds counterintuitive, but I would do even more getting them to drive out and go pick stuff up, drive out, pick stuff up. But then I would also simultaneously work on simple whistle stop away from that area and like fun stuff, like as soon as he stops throwing a tennis ball or a bumper, i'm rewarding him for stopping when he's excited.
Speaker 2:So, yeah there's. We can do a couple of things like that and just kind of play with it until we figure him exactly out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and remember, like in an earlier part of this conversation I was talking about, in the very that first 10 weeks, i sort of, almost without noticing it, had kind of blown off whistle set.
Speaker 2:Yes, i had to go back and clean up, so you think that's coming back to Bacchia a little bit. I think this is part of this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i really do. I think it can get cleaned up.
Speaker 1:It can definitely get cleaned up. It's been cleaned up so much other stuff.
Speaker 3:But I think it's just that was ignoring whistle set for a few weeks made whistle stop a little harder, and now this now we're kind of doing this, so it's, it's. I think that that may be the genesis of it.
Speaker 2:Well, it could be, but that's okay. Maybe That's more than likely it is. I mean, if you, if you skip anything, it can come back to Bacchia, but that doesn't mean you can't conquer it later. So I think we can. I think it wouldn't get you through that For sure, I think. So No problem. Well, what's I mean kind of as we close this out? we kind of talked about that which you know once we finish this podcast we got to get out there and do some training and come back and say how it goes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, might as well.
Speaker 2:I mean I think we should we can talk about that, get a little bit of footage and share it with everybody so they can see what's going. But kind of as we, as we close out this episode, what, what, what are you most excited about moving forward? Just kind of sounds like you got a pretty solid gun dog in your hands already And you know, i mean that's awesome. Now that you've done this, you've invested two, two and a half years, you got some things that a little tweaking here and there and you've got not just a great gun dog but you've got an incredible retriever. Yeah, i mean that's pretty awesome for two year investment.
Speaker 3:I really think this is so pivotal. I feel like this is you know everything. all of this is important. Whistle sit was important, come to find out, but you know this, this right here.
Speaker 3:it's like he's teetering on like the the edge of just sliding down to a finished gun dog. If I can you know, if, if, if I can get him to what he's doing is he's on the verge of learning, when I'm giving whistle commands and and hand signals, that he needs to be very interested in that, because he's I'm showing him where the duck is right, we're showing him where the bumper is or whatever it is we're picking up And that's going to be. you know, in the field that's constant. It happens all the time, every time almost. So it's. you know, as I was, you know I hit a bad snag and was starting to make him tentative on things he'd never been tentative about. This is a very important moment. Yeah, I really think this is like the critical moment to his maturing and being finished. Yeah, right here.
Speaker 2:I think we can. I think we can knock that out And I think, like I said, you know, if we try one thing and it doesn't work, then, based on what you're saying, typically that's the game we play, right, you know your dog's doing good, but if you start to see their personality reel back in and not be what it normally is, it's typically assigned for me like Hey, let's change the. I call it flipping the tables. Let's flip the tables on them, change everything and then change their whole routine, get them into a new situation so that they're excited to do it.
Speaker 3:Now that you're mentioning that, i think he was. you know the place we were in a rut of. you know we're in a pattern of training in this one spot And I can see him being. I think he's a little bored too, so I think it's a good, it's a good time to switch it up on it and get him somewhere new. So perfect, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, typically how we close this out and always like to ask this question if you could give yourself some advice before he got started, what would that be If you could? knowing what you know now, what would you tell yourself three years ago when you were looking at getting a dog and getting started training it yourself?
Speaker 3:Well, i mean I wouldn't do too much different. I mean I think that you know, getting involved in CGA right off the bat was critical for me because I just I need that structure. If I have to, you know, create my own lesson plan, i just I was not going to happen, i was not going to be able to get it done. You have, in the best of circumstances, you have windows of opportunity to go train. We have other things going on, unfortunately, and you have to be efficient. You have to know what you're about to go do. You have to have a plan And you know this, the 52 week plus, just you know, is structure enough for me. It allows me to get it done. I would do that. If now, what I would do differently, i would probably, you know, go forward and get all that gear together right off the bat, everything that you're going to need. Get it, just get it and have it there.
Speaker 3:And I think the biggest thing is you know, busy people. I think that you have to. You have to plan your session and you cannot get out of your truck and get the dog out feeling rushed. Yeah, that's a good really. You've got to be settled down, you've got to understand. This is how much time I'm going to spend and I'm not going to rush through this. I'm not going to try to get this done quick so I can go to another thing, because the you know, the dogs pick up on your that vibe If you're feeling, if you're, if you get out there and you're nervous and you feel I've got less time than I normally do today you might want to train another day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good, that's really good advice.
Speaker 3:You're about to not have a good training session at least my experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, it's true, I've done it myself. You know, trying to rush through or on top of that too, is like trying to like. Okay, I'm going to accomplish all of this in today's session.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:You come with your agenda. Sometimes that agenda gets erect.
Speaker 3:No, you have to be willing to walk that 200 yards out there with that bumper, yeah. And then we're going to do this, we're going to heal and walk out there again because we need to. You know, do it in different ways, and this takes times. You have to plan, you have to know that you're going to do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know, keep that nervous energy down. Don't be in a rush. That's the main thing. I've done it a lot and I just know that's solid. It doesn't make a good training session if you're rushing, yeah.
Speaker 2:Well, that's really good advice. I'm glad, glad you shared it. I think there's some really good things that people could learn from your experience that you've shared here on this episode And really it's been an honor to have you. I appreciate you coming on and talking through some of your challenges, some of your successes, and I really look forward to seeing how the rest of the journey goes for you and looking forward to getting out there in the film here.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, it's been my pleasure. It's been a lot of fun. Yes, sir.
Speaker 2:Well, thank you.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the build from here podcast. To learn more about retriever training or our podcast, visit cornerstonegundogacademycom slash podcast.