EP: #052 Ever wondered how dedication and passion contribute to the world of retriever training? Join me as I chat with Matt Papke, a CGA member who has transformed the life of his canine companion Luna through perseverance and commitment. We trace Matt's journey into hunting and the experiences that led him to become a duck hunter, including his first deer hunting experience with his friend Grant.
In this episode, Matt shares the heartwarming story of picking up puppy Luna during the pandemic and the training process that followed. Get ready to be inspired by Matt's hunt-testing journey with Luna as we delve into the excitement, challenges, and triumphs they faced together.
We discuss the importance of maintaining control and focus during hunt tests, as well as how Matt adapted to Luna's energy levels and distractions. Through Matt's experience with CGA and the dog training community, he learned how training a dog can be seen as a work of art that is continuously improved upon. Don't miss out on this incredible story of growth and success in retriever training!
Want to train your dog like Matt? Visit https://www.cornerstonegundogacademy.com/52-plus-page and sign up today.
EP: #052 Ever wondered how dedication and passion contribute to the world of retriever training? Join me as I chat with Matt Papke, a CGA member who has transformed the life of his canine companion Luna through perseverance and commitment. We trace Matt's journey into hunting and the experiences that led him to become a duck hunter, including his first deer hunting experience with his friend Grant.
In this episode, Matt shares the heartwarming story of picking up puppy Luna during the pandemic and the training process that followed. Get ready to be inspired by Matt's hunt-testing journey with Luna as we delve into the excitement, challenges, and triumphs they faced together.
We discuss the importance of maintaining control and focus during hunt tests, as well as how Matt adapted to Luna's energy levels and distractions. Through Matt's experience with CGA and the dog training community, he learned how training a dog can be seen as a work of art that is continuously improved upon. Don't miss out on this incredible story of growth and success in retriever training!
Want to train your dog like Matt? Visit https://www.cornerstonegundogacademy.com/52-plus-page and sign up today.
Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy online resources to help you train your retriever.
Speaker 2:Welcome to another episode of the Build From Here podcast. On this episode I'm so excited. We have CGA member Matt Papkeon and I've got to say first of all, it's an honor to have him on. He's just done an incredible job with his dog, luna. In fact, him and his wife have both worked on training that dog, but they just I remember seeing that dog at member weekend and I was just blown away. I thought, man, they've really really put in the time and effort And they followed the program to a tee because that dog is just absolutely crushing.
Speaker 2:But, without further ado, let me bring you on, matt. How's it going? I'm doing well, thanks. How are you? I'm doing so good, so excited to have you on board and excited to talk dogs. Talk your story Before we get into your training story. For me it's always fascinating to hear how people get into this right, because there's so many different walks of life, so many different on ramps to end up at CGA with a dog and train a dog that you're hunting by yourself. So I'm curious what got you into hunting? Let's go back to the roots of where this sucker might have started, where this story may have started.
Speaker 3:Yeah, probably quite a while ago. I mean, as a kid growing up I never really did a whole lot with hunting. Generally, if your dad doesn't hunt or your grandpa doesn't hunt, then you're not really into hunting. We did some fishing so that kind of got me interested in the outdoors that way. So I actually didn't get into hunting until my early 30s about 10 years ago.
Speaker 3:Wow, yeah. So I mean I guess I got a little exposure before that. My father-in-law was big into hunting. He actually was pretty high up in Ducks and the Midden in Wisconsin. That's awesome. Unfortunately his path and mine didn't coexist as far as duck hunting, but I hear about all of his stories and stuff. So he's had a couple English bread labs and I thought they were really good house dogs and I heard all the great hunting stories. We did some farm pheasant hunts a couple times with the dogs So it was kind of cool to see the dogs work as far as that goes. So that kind of got me interested in the dogs and labs. We had a lab when I was in high school too. I was just a family dog, didn't seem too smart either. It was kind of funny. I'd look at you and you just didn't think it was thinking of anything whatsoever. I've seen a few dogs like that in my day.
Speaker 3:That's very cool.
Speaker 2:That's interesting to get started a little bit later. So what's the background? What really got you hooked in as you got started a little bit later?
Speaker 3:Pretty much, i got this buddy that has now become my great hunting buddy. The guy I met that I worked with. We worked together for probably 13 years or so now. His name is Grant and he was outdoorsy and he was starting to get established in life, having a job and wife and all that kind of stuff. He had turkey hunted before and he wanted to take me turkey hunting And so we had turkey hunting and heard some gobbles and stuff. It wasn't successful, but it was getting out in the woods and it was awesome. A little later that same year he ended up getting a new bow and wanted to do bow hunting And he invited me to the archery range while he was practicing and brought his old bow for me And I eventually ended up buying it from him and shot my first deer that same fall.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:What was your?
Speaker 2:first year. Was it a day or a buck?
Speaker 3:It was a little eight point buck. Anything is a trophy with a bow.
Speaker 2:I mean, yeah, that's impressive for a first year to end up with a buck, absolutely.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it was a lot of fun. My work schedule, i feel like, was kind of conducive to just putting in the time, since I didn't really know what I was doing. But after being out there a whole bunch, i finally got one.
Speaker 2:That's hilarious. Yeah, sometimes it's not about knowing the most, It's just about putting in the most work.
Speaker 3:Yeah right, and as my evolution, at least as a deer hunter, has come along, i feel like I'm out there less and less days to find that success as you learn more. So hopefully, as I get a little bit more into duck hunting, i'll find more success that way too.
Speaker 2:But yeah.
Speaker 3:I guess going along. Then Grant, again, he got a chocolate lab and he's really big into researching So anything he gets and does he researches a ton. So he put together kind of his own training plan with a whole bunch of YouTube videos. I'm sure he read everything he could as well and had a really nice dog, Took me hunting with him. We just did a walk in on this little river with my first duck hunt probably five or six years ago.
Speaker 3:And he shot a hen woody and almost landed on top of us And his dog's first retrieve was like three yards.
Speaker 2:I mean it counts, That's awesome.
Speaker 3:That was pretty neat. And then I had a little fishing boat. at the time I ended up building a homemade blind. We got some blind grass and went out to a local marsh and started getting in duck hunting that way. Yeah. but I was surprised how well he did with that dog. She marked pretty well And she was kind of noisy sometimes. But then again. I feel like that was because my inexperience as a hunter. If she got a more retrieve, she might have been able to be a little bit more quiet.
Speaker 2:That's hilarious, yeah It was pretty cool.
Speaker 3:Grant had the dog and I had the boat. He'd borrow my boat if I was working. I'd pick up his dog if he was working.
Speaker 2:So that's pretty cool. It worked out pretty well that way. Oh, that's awesome, man. So that obviously was pretty impactful on you to end up where you're at now Lots invested in your own dog. Was that dog kind of your inspiration to get your own dog, or what's the story there?
Speaker 3:That dog for sure, maybe some of my father-in-law's dogs too. Eventually, i think my wife and I, megan, we were always going to get a dog. It was just a matter of did we have the time to be fair to the dog. My work schedule I have a lot of days off. I worked like 312 a week at the hospital, but so that's 4 days a week that I could potentially be hunting, training, whatever, but those are 12-hour days. My wife worked a salary job, or still works a salary job, but being in at the office all the time was just not. We didn't feel it was fair to a dog to be home, especially in a puppy state, 10, 12 hours a day. Eventually, megan got a job right before COVID. That was 100% work from home. Oh cool, then we're like it's on, we're going to get our dog.
Speaker 2:That's great. That's great. So it was already. It was in the plan all along. It was just a matter of time. So, when it was in the plan, okay, were you thinking about your city dog? Were you thinking about a hunting dog at this point, or you're just thinking about y'all just want a dog in general? What led you down the path of a beautiful, well bred retriever like you got now?
Speaker 3:So Megan's dad's dogs were English, bred dogs from Champion Lines and things like that. That was kind of the inspiration to get an English lab. We threw Grant again in his research. We heard of SOK And there's an outpost in Wisconsin. So we kind of hooked up with the Facebook page and they ended up having a couple extra black females. So it just kind of happened stance within a few weeks of looking And I think we even put in for the weight list on SOK and actually put a deposit down on Luna before we even heard back about the weight list.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, yeah. So then it was just a matter of time of waiting. Did you consider any other breeds, or you kind of wanted a lab that was like y'all's ideal dog?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think we pretty much always figured we'd have a lab.
Speaker 2:Nothing wrong with that. Incredible retrievers, i mean, they're some of the best. They're some of the best, so alright. So interesting there. What led you to doing this yourself? Did you plan to send your dog to a trainer? Had you thought about training the dog yourself? Was that even like a consideration for you guys?
Speaker 3:Yeah, i always would want to train a dog myself.
Speaker 2:Is that just experience with your buddy's dog?
Speaker 3:Yeah Yeah. That dog was awesome. They had a great bond and I thought that would be something that would be ideal. Not long after we put down the deposit, i was like researching ways to train a dog and things like that, and that's how I came across the EGA.
Speaker 2:Okay, Cool, That's cool. What was your initial thoughts when you saw it Was that you're like hey this is what I'm looking for. Did you think about it for a bit? What's your story there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I thought about it a little bit, and that was not long after 52 plus came out, i think. I think we put our deposit down in March of 2020. Yep, right as COVID was starting to kind of start up. I don't know how long the 52 plus part has been out, but that, like I'm not, i don't have a ton of time to research or I'm always busy doing things and I don't necessarily research a ton, so having that all like in one spot, you know where you could just kind of progress through it at your own pace, was something that just seemed ideal for me, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that makes sense. I can see that. Well, let's get to the puppy pickup day. What was that? Let's talk about puppy pickup day. What was that like for you guys? That must have. Well, before we did that, how long at this point had you and your wife been wanting to get a dog?
Speaker 3:That's a good question. I mean, i I don't know that we had plans to get one, but it was kind of like, yeah, we'll get one when we can, yeah. And I think she just got that job where she could be 100% work from home that February, so it only been like Six weeks to two months that we're like, hey, we can now get a dog. That's awesome. Take long to pull a trigger, that's cool And now that's awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, didn't that? didn't take long at all. So you pick, you got that. That pulled the trigger. What? uh? yeah, let's go into puppy pick up day now. How, what, uh, how did that go for you guys?
Speaker 3:Hope you. pick up day was a little different because that was the end of April, like right when cold, we are sort of ramping up. so It seems like they normally make kind of a big deal about it. I have, you know, the sire and the dam there and you can meet them and kind of mingle around with everybody else that has the same litter, but There wasn't any of that And actually because we had just jumped on that letter toward the end, we didn't even get a pick. Wow, wow, i don't know what I would have picked anyway, being my first dog. It's like, okay, i don't have a choice, this is awesome.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does kind of make it a little bit easier on you, and I will say it all turned out extremely well, so oh, Yeah, we say that all the time she's.
Speaker 3:We can't Say enough great things about her and she's just what we need. That's awesome. No, we showed up there and you know the, the breeder, you know, carry her out and set her down on the lawn, and she Ran right up to my wife and she picked her up and I don't think she set her down For like half a day.
Speaker 2:That's great. Oh, man, that's so fun to pick up puppies like for that. Just Puppy pick up day is awesome. That's that first moment, that first bond that you make with them. I mean, it's just so exciting to like be holding that little Pup full of potential and to be thinking about what one day you'll be doing with them. Oh. Yeah, it was, it definitely was so I Guess y'all, y'all, at this stage you already had cornerstone, or your did you buy cornerstone before. After you, you got your pop. I.
Speaker 3:Think it was probably three or four weeks before we ended up picking her up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so y'all were prepared then for for pick up day. You kind of knew what the you already had your mind set on here's we're ready to hit the ground running on our training. You kind of knew what you needed to do, oh.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we did that and we read another book or two. There's Actually a really good book that I would suggest anybody that wants to get their dog in the home by Pippa Mattinson I think she's an English trainer and it's like the happy puppy book. So they're great stuff about you know, the potty stuff and the crate routine and that kind of stuff. That Really, with you guys and that together We had all we needed.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, that's awesome. So let's fast forward on the on the training. So you dive in. You hit the first few weeks of training. What? What was your training experience? I think, if I'm not mistaken, y'all have completed 52, plus up into this point, correct? Yes okay, so we get it full. We get the full story here. What uh right? Yeah walk us through. Walk us through your journey following 52 plus.
Speaker 3:So I didn't want to rush through it too much. I was eager, but giving that she was born like right at the beginning of March, she would have been about Seven, eight, nine months during our hunting season here in Wisconsin. So I had already planned to not hunter. You know, being the first dog didn't want to mess her up, trying to go too fast or do things too soon, so we kind of just plotted through a little bit and She was really easy to train, you know, up until about week 40 when we got into some more complex stuff. Yeah, you picked up everything pretty darn well, that's awesome, we. And then, like, when we got to, finally got to like hold conditioning and stuff was like the following winter So we got to do that inside. That was good, i think. Before that we even did some intro the hand thing over there on top of like two or three feet of snow. Wow, doing that in the winter, you know, doing the hand, the casting between the two place boards.
Speaker 3:That's awesome and Needing to get out of dodge a little bit. We ended up Running a place in Florida and we wanted to bring the dog. Must have been like March then, of like 2021, then, yeah, she would have been about a year old and We just rented a place. Megan could still work, i had to take off some PTO or whatever, but it had a fenced in backyard. That was about an acre Wow, awesome.
Speaker 3:That's incredible kind of dumped into a little bayou. So like I went to Home Depot, i bought our lane stuff and we started our retrieving the lane while we were on vacation.
Speaker 2:It's a great vacation plan right there. Get out of the snow and get down to Florida, where it's nice. Well, it could be a little hot, but yeah, that's all. Well, march, yeah, march was probably pretty nice down there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i ended up being great. I think in the two weeks we're down there, i think I got through three weeks of training.
Speaker 2:That's all. Yeah, that that's pretty fun right there. So, wow, that's that's interesting. So, yeah, let's talk about that for a minute And then we'll kind of dive back into your story, because I want to hear a little more there but, so training in the snow.
Speaker 2:So Wisconsin obviously are gonna have quite quite a good winter. What, uh, you know, for a lot of people in the southeast like me, where I live and just even other places where it is, it's snow a lot, what, what's, uh, what's your challenges like? How have you navigated some of those challenges? also, maybe for those that are up there in the snow, you know, maybe you give some good advice to them on how to handle all that.
Speaker 3:Sure, i mean, we didn't have to do too much different. The one thing that I would say that we had to pay close attention to was what the dogs pads And the days where that was troublesome were more of, not days with fresh no, because fresh no is pretty soft.
Speaker 3:Yeah but it was days like if the snow has been on the ground for a while, maybe there's a little bit of a thaw and then a refreeze. When there's some like iciness to it, yeah, that's when she would maybe get some cracked pads and things like that. So we Have used a like a saver kind of a product to kind of condition the paws and make them a little bit more hearty and less likely to crack. So now we, we kind of, we kind of train year around here And we definitely don't stop the exercise Because it's winter with those no shooting and things like that, just for regular exercise and the winter. But it's great. He's an active pup, that's for sure.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's, that's without question. So that's great advice for those up there in the snow. And I would say, yeah, but whether being active, what? what was the middle of the training like? so all the the first introduction, right after you get past the fetch, old and release, and all that, how to? You know you kind of, for a lot of people that may not be familiar with our, with our course, you know It's. I call it walk, jog run. You know it starts off slow, then you start picking up the pace and all of a sudden.
Speaker 2:It's just pretty much your your sprinting And once you get past that, fetch old and release stuff. It's, it's a pretty quick. We're kind of throwing a lot at you. How did Kind of Luna handle, handle all of that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that was. That was amazing. Like you run is is No joke. I actually kind of went by so fast and it and that's like you're getting into retrieving stuff, that's the fun stuff. So yeah, it was sort of a blur because we went through it and you know, she just Picked up things really quickly and with Megan helping remind me to be positive, luna. Luna thrives on the positive energy, that's for sure. Yeah, Yeah I.
Speaker 3:I remember when we were, you know, like doing the lining memories and kind of think, fitting the distance, that went Awesome. I think I put up one video where she was doing a Retrieve some property that we use as like 200 yards, you know, as you build out the lining memory and a lane kind of thing Like the mown lane. That was super fun and just It was super easy to train on. That. That's cool. Well, one one thing.
Speaker 2:I want to hit on how, what was your flow for going through the course? Because you know you've had some really good success with it and it seems like things have gone For the most part, smooth. For you know, i think it's a really good thing to do Smooth, for you know, typically people run into like two to three like major hurdles along the way and it's different for everybody. Um oh yeah, but for y'all, y'all seem to not really hit anything until, like you said, that week 40, it was just pretty much smooth sell and how, what did you do? Did you? How did? did you watch all the videos at once for that week? How? what was your flow like? How did you study? How did you like go through through the course?
Speaker 3:No, i would. I would definitely watch the the videos for the whole week, maybe not always a checkpoint, because you could get a couple of sessions in before the checkpoint is, you know, to see what we're going for, especially the ones that had the midweek checkpoints and things like that. But I watch all the videos and then I sometimes rewatch them. You know, i would have the training grounds and stuff like that, but I feel like I don't know if it was like the maturity of the dog, because we went through it more slowly, that helped, or we weren't trying to just push through for the sake of pushing through.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you said doesn't sound like you put any pressure on at all. You were happy to get there when y'all got there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the goal was, i think, that second hunting season, which she would have been about 18 months. So you know, we didn't even get to the fetch hold release until she was almost a year old.
Speaker 3:So it was already after you know where some people get some robots with the teething and things like that. Yeah, y'all no problem there. Yeah, so I feel like you know the people that are powering through, and that's great. You know go at your own pace, which is awesome. But I feel like that might have been for us why it was so much so smooth.
Speaker 2:I would tend to agree with that. I think a lot of it. Sometimes it's the pressure or the fear like, hey, i'm trying to get this done by this time frame so that I can do this when you know, and honestly, even if you do that, i mean so how long did it take you to complete it then?
Speaker 3:We probably didn't complete it till she was about well, let's see, she was almost two at the members weekend in 2022 when we met all you guys. Yeah, So we didn't complete it, so probably about two and a half years old.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good time frame right there to really that's a good pace. That's a healthy, happy pace to where you make it fun, you know, super enjoyable.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's very interesting to hear there. I'm always curious, you know, and it also depends on the dog. So this dog just happens to be exceptional. But that hasn't come without hard work, you know. I mean you've just, it takes the same amount of work or effort to train a dog, no matter how good they are, And the amount of time that it takes depends on how much you compress the work or how much you stretch it out.
Speaker 2:So I think that's what a lot of people don't understand. They think, oh, i can get it done super quick. Well, at the end of the day, the same amount of reps have to be done for the dog to be proficient, no matter. I mean, there's like a general rule of thumb. We talk about that 75 to 50 rule 75 reps to acquire a skill, which is what most people would consider their dog ready to move on. Well, that means your dog's just got the hang of it. What we consider dog ready to move on is 250 successful completions of a rep, and that's, you know, that's fluent at a skill and they're ready to kind of continue moving on from there. So you just can't really get around that. But it sounds like I like your perspective on that and how you went through it, just taking your time, not not rushing it. So things went good. You kind of picked up your running doing well. Let's talk about some of the challenges you face, because that's what everybody wants to hear, like what went wrong and how did you? how did?
Speaker 3:you solve it. Yeah, no, that well, some of it. I feel like I'm still working through, but it might have been because I introduced the deadlines after that first member weekend, right After that first member weekend. Things went really well and I'm impressed, other than maybe a barbecue incident. We will need to tell that here in a minute.
Speaker 2:We can't not do this podcast without telling that That is wild Yeah that was if you're okay with all that story. Yeah, i'm okay with that, Okay.
Speaker 3:Other than that, like you did, amazing And the big the thing that was in my head that you guys had preached before and I think I heard a little bit at the start of that member weekend was don't test your dog. You know this is in a place to test your dog. Try and set it up for success. You know, putting in a situation that you know it can succeed. And that was in my mind the whole time because we were like week 40, 41, i think it's right, where you start blind retreats. And so there were some blind retreats set out that member weekend but I was like we haven't even done that.
Speaker 3:So, with all these extra distractions and people in a different location than we normally train, i didn't think it was the right time to try starting that That's a smart move. That's a smart move. You did really well there and meeting some people and starting to see about some hunt test stuff. I was like, yeah, that's good, we should maybe think about doing some of that In some ways, just kind of going at our own pace, was great. But the whole meeting a goal to train for Because, honestly, before that members weekend, i think the six weeks leading up to it, we trained and got through six weeks of the 52 plus.
Speaker 2:Wow, just getting ready for a member weekend.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we kept progressing along, So that was fun. So we started training for some hunt test stuff and I met Jake there and he looked me up with some other people up here in Wisconsin that have done some hunt tests And that was where we hit kind of our first hurdle with the blinds. And that's me being a novice trainer, i think. More than anything, let me tell you what not to do. So we were doing really well on like pattern blinds and we were even getting some good distance, 70, 80 yards maybe on some pattern blinds. And when we got to coal blinds we did it in our normal spot and she did pretty well.
Speaker 3:And we moved to the second location, as we're starting to try to generalize, and I ran from one location and then the next day I came back and I put blinds. We ran from the same area but I put blinds in different spots And that confused that I got And she was like no, but it was over here yesterday. She ended up kind of teaching her to hunt it up herself, and so that has been our struggle.
Speaker 2:So the blind ended up. so it sounds like she just happened upon it when she went rogue And exactly.
Speaker 3:Oh no.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, yes, that's bad, that's bad That was very bad.
Speaker 3:So that was like. You know, i thought back about it. I'm like, oh, i know totally what I did wrong here, but it was a struggle to get over that. You know, mega was nice enough to come out and help us somewhere I had blinds set out. She would, you know, throw it down if the dog listened to the whistle stop And was, you know, pretty close within like a cast of being there. Or sometimes we just left it down and she'd be in the vicinity to pull it if she started hunting and ignoring the whistle. But yeah, that was a struggle, i did that. And then on water, i had to put a long lead on her So that she, you know, decided to go rogue when she was doing, you know, ignoring the whistle stop. Yeah, give her a little pressure to bring her back and start it over and Help her to learn what she's supposed to do.
Speaker 3:Yeah that was our biggest struggle and we kind of are still working through that and another, i think, repercussions of of that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah. Once they learn that they can not, how? yeah, that's just bad, because you really want them to develop, develop an association of Wow, my handler knows where everything's at all. I gotta do is just look to them, yeah. But if they find that, that, that accidental Reward, they're like oh man, that's how I get these extra birds. I just need to run around a little bit and use my nose and I'll find it.
Speaker 3:Yep, and of course you know then. Then I lose my positivity as well when things are happening. So that's just. You know, snowballs, yeah, man.
Speaker 2:That mindset is so crucial when you're training and it's. It can be a challenge. You know, doesn't matter who you are, i don't care if you've always had a good, positive mindset. Training a dog will challenge you and you will question things. I mean, it's just gonna happen, oh For sure. So that's good.
Speaker 2:So it sounds like you've worked through that. What, what? so it sounds like one of the biggest things you've done To work through that is is to have Megan go out there and help make sure the dog isn't rewarded. If, if he, if Luna decides to take a little Escapade, run with her note, with her nose right, so if she starts to ignore you, hey, we're picking those bumpers so that the dog learns no reward for that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that and and if you wasn't able to come out, i put a long lead on. You know, 50 yard or so, a couple leads put together so that I can't they know I don't let her get it.
Speaker 2:That's good, That's good. That's a good tip there for anybody struggling with that. What um? well, it's. I mean, I know people are probably itching about this one now. They're wondering about the the incident It member.
Speaker 2:Well, let's let's go into that story a second. Let's lead up to, let's start with, member weekend, your first member weekend experience. So what were you thinking? Yeah, so obviously y'all made a commitment that to drive down from Wisconsin so a good little haul, probably 10, 12 hours. Yeah, what I, you, what did? what were your thoughts going into member weekend where y'all are excited, shot, nervous, you know what? what was your thoughts there?
Speaker 3:Yeah, i think, overall pretty excited, i mean I I think at that point you know, we had hadn't quite got into blinds yet She was doing really well and I just, i think I kind of had the sponge mentality.
Speaker 2:I just really wanted to learn.
Speaker 3:I mean, she was only, you know, about a year old and we've been doing well, but I still know that I had a lot of fun at that point. So you know, we show up and we were a little late. There was some traffic It seems like there is always down there on that Yes, in her state, but you guys. So we ended up walking down the hill to where there was a little setup that first night And that's where the nerves kind of sort of kicked in. You know, when there's 20 dogs all lined up and you know 30 or 40 people there and running what looked like big dog stuff, and we were just a little dog and Novice trainer at the time, that's so cool. But now we got out there eventually in front of everybody. And you know, i tried to keep it simple. I don't even think we're doing double marks yet. So I just did a couple singles and she crushed it. So that's cool, it was fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's a good moment when your dog does you right like that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, yeah, let me So. Then the dinner was back up at the top of the hill, right?
Speaker 3:Yeah and I think we hung out a little bit watching I don't know. I think Barton was there and he was running some as dogs, so that's kind of we need to see the finished dogs kind of running, and or the the older dogs run. And then we moseyed up a little bit later I think most people had already eaten and While we were down, you know, at the setup earlier I saw somebody that had their dog leased to their momo, like oh, that's a good idea. It was pretty steady, she stays on place. Well, i will, i think I'll do that.
Speaker 3:So I set up the momo right behind our vehicle and Least her to that, and then we went over to get some food and Eat and everything and we sat with our back to the table, kind of the opposite side of the tent, yeah, i don't know. Five minutes later, so There was this big crash and I'm like holy cow, what the heck is that. I turn around And I see I think we had a pink leash on her and I see her collar and and I'm like, oh, it's my dog.
Speaker 3:Aha, moment, apparently there was flames that flared up from the sternos this whole. She basically dragged that momo behind her. She went under the barbecue table, coming straight toward us. That's why all that whole table of barbecue over on top of her in the ground and the sternos flared up And it was. it was crazy, it was it was without question.
Speaker 2:As it happens, so quick to My, my wife was leaving, like she backed out because she was going back to talk, talk to her baby girl in, or something like that. I don't remember. Anyway she was leaving, i don't know if, because I will say Luna had just been sitting there, so just still, still, as could be. So I don't know.
Speaker 2:Maybe she got stung by a bee. Something caused her to like get scared, and I have no idea what it was. So she's going, she's pulling out and all of a sudden, boom, that table flips over. Luna was scared like what. what just happened? It was like just an incredible commotion there. Thankfully, thankfully, thankfully everyone had a, except for two people, i believe, which was Barton, and then Shane Actually had his ribs on his plate When this. he was like standing at the table when the table flipped over on him. So Unfortunately for Shane but he we're all good He came back to the next member weekend.
Speaker 3:So that's uh that we're all good. Yeah, no, and in the aftermath it was kind of scary because I think we ended up Um, i think it was like a pea collar that we had on her, so we're, you know, tightening around, luckily, probably evenly around her neck, and she did a loop almost all the way around the tent until somebody was able to grab her. Yes, um, and she was pretty worked up and covered in barbecue And, being a young dog and nervous, he was jumping all over me, she was jumping all over megan, so we recovered in barbecue. It was crazy.
Speaker 2:You got the full southern barbecue experience, that's for sure.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, oh my gosh that.
Speaker 3:I do gotta say the The response from everyone was Of concern for Luna, like, and it's like a testament that I think that community of the cga members that you guys have built up, because everybody was like how's Luna, is she okay? Is she okay? I didn't get any like even feeling that anybody was like you know the judge, you like I can't believe that happened and Your dog did this. I hadn't. There was nobody that did that. Even the next day, you know, people were coming up Luna okay today, she okay today.
Speaker 2:That's awesome And that was awesome.
Speaker 2:It's hard to find that in communities, and I just think that's one thing I love about our people is we everybody at least that I can tell Um something about the cga family the community is that it is concerned and caring, which is, which is great. It's uh, it's nice to be part of that and it's nice to have people like that. Just we're. We're so grateful for everybody, for that, specifically just um, because that that is a tough spot, um, to be in, especially if people were wanting to nag about it, which that just reflects on them. But, uh, thankfully it reflects really good our members, because everybody's okay, man, we're gonna, we're gonna watch out for you, which is awesome.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, it was, that was. It was amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, let's, let's fast forward to, uh, another. So we kind of we've kind of threw you into the fire again on this past member weekend. Uh, you show up and we're like, hey, how would you, how would you like to lead, how would you like to lead a group? What? uh, let's talk about that experience. How did that go for you?
Speaker 3:Oh, that went pretty well, um, again, like just the, the positivity of all the members and stuff, and it kind of lucked out. I think the people that were in our group, um, you know everybody had the right mindset. There were some different ages of dogs and, um, you know, there was some nervousness for sure, because at that point I had still only been, you know, training a dog for only a couple years maybe. Yeah, so It was.
Speaker 3:I was trying to like channel my inner shame because he was our group leader on that first member weekend And he was positive and friendly and, you know, asking about everybody's dog and what their challenges are and you know, the biggest thing that was that I tried to think of was to Simplify to get success. Yes, there was, you know, people That maybe had little struggles with the way certain things were set up, but almost any drill can be made easier to get that, get that win. And You know it was again kind of out of my comfort zone but it was good for me and that's cool. You know, i learned some people in our group too. So, always open to learning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i thought y'all handled that well. I mean it. Obviously, when you step into something new like that, it's easy to be out of the comfort zone, but both you and Megan and Megan, your wife, helped a ton too and Y'all y'all did a fantastic job. I think y'all you'll took care of your people and you let them well and, at least from the people I talked to in the group, they were real happy. So, which is which is which is great.
Speaker 2:You know, i'm thankful for for people like you, because, as we do the member weekends and we have so many people there, we just really it would be hard to do without without our members like you that have come back repeated times and I've really grown through it and I've then step into a little bit of leadership. It'd be hard, for, i mean, we have so many people where there's no other way to do it But to divide and conquer, and having you guys lead those groups makes, makes it possible. So thank you for that, and And for us, you know, the belief is it's always we're always about next steps, helping people take that next step. So I always feel like that that that opportunity is an opportunity for growth too, because it allows you to.
Speaker 2:Absolutely to grow yourself.
Speaker 3:Yeah, thanks for the opportunity and and you're welcome. Yeah, my pleasure, i'm glad to help out going forward too.
Speaker 2:Awesome. Yeah, we'd love, love to have you help out in the future and look forward to the next member weekend. So well, what's next for you guys, as you continue working Just on the training, what, what are y'all kind of looking forward to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, i think now that we, you know we got our season, our HRC season title Oh, that's so ago, so that was, that was fun. We I don't know the the hunt test community is Is a little different than CGA, but It's a good. It's a good way to focus your efforts of training and I think we'll probably try for some finished level stuff.
Speaker 2:I think I'll be well.
Speaker 3:Oh, thank you, i'm, it's possible. I think we can work, work through it and get to it. Even on the season last test that we did, i didn't feel super confident, yeah, but I, in retrospect, it's probably because I've been trying, we've been trying to lengthen distance and we've having some breakdowns in that Adding of distance, which, yeah, of course, that makes sense. And then we went back to the season this. Then, since she crushed it, i'm okay, this is good. We are closer than I than I think that's good.
Speaker 2:Well, the jump from from started to seasons a little bit more than you're gonna see from season to finish, thankfully, which is cool. So you've what. We do need to talk about that. So what? so it sounds like Jake may and may have got you into some people that were into hunt test. What's your what's? let's talk about your hunt test journey thus far. So Everybody knows course on trains differently than the standard Way of training out there. For what a lot of people do, that, especially that run hunt tests, they have a different methodology and just different approach to training. So what was it like going into that world as a CGA member? and and how did you navigate that? and Let's talk about how you found some some awesome success there, obviously earning that title, which is incredible.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm, honestly it was. It was not a crazy transition. The. I ended up joining a, an HRC club around here and And the. They're not a huge club and there's only a handful of I don't know active members, i would say, but they were pretty positive too, so I feel like I lucked out in that right. I, you know, met some other people or and seen some things where People maybe use a little harder hand, so to speak. Yeah, when their dogs don't don't perform how they would hope. In my head I always go back to it's got to be the trainer, not the dog, right, most likely the dogs can learn, although the, the Scenarios or the setups there's, there's something about them that just takes the energy Level up even a notch more for the dogs. We ran our first test. We ran a couple of started tests just to get a sense for the whole hunt test stuff. I think this was May of 22.
Speaker 3:Yeah and The start. It is really simple. I felt like you can keep your dog on a leash so they're not going to break. But Luna and I hunted the season prior and she didn't break, so I thought that would be okay. Um, and there's just two single marks on land and two single marks on water and We crushed that. Um, you know she was already probably almost two at that point in time. So, yeah, um, i was already kind of gunning for the season stuff.
Speaker 3:But, um, the first hunt test we did at season level, when I thought steadiness was no big deal Like there are little idiosyncrasies that come up with that and that extra energy level is just crazy. Like I never thought through eating the leash off your dog, because a season dog Runs without a leash, right. So I had, you know, a cgap collar that was fairly tight and like I Take it off of her to Start. I think it was like a walk-up or something like that. Um, i take it off of her and she kind of whips out of it, and then The control was lost there and I think we were down from the judges ducks, so she ran over and started sniffing on the judges.
Speaker 2:Oh man.
Speaker 3:That's rough. It was just downhill, for it was just downhill for there. and then then the walk-up, which, basically, you got to shoot a popper at a duck that's launched from a winger that lands probably 10 to 30 yards away from you. She broke on that and got the bird and it was basically over after that and I was not even considering that being an issue.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow. So that was a shock for you there.
Speaker 3:It was, um, i mean the blinds. At that point we were working through the whole teaching her to hunt on her own for the blinds at that point too, right, so our blinds weren't up to snuff either, which is okay, um, but uh, it's just crazy. The energy level, like all the dogs around, all the people around The wingers, add extra excitement that and absolutely. You know, She just gets so amped um at hunt test especially.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, everybody does dogs, dogs and handlers, that's true, and they can feel your energy, so they'll feed off you if your energy isn't right. But, um, no, we did. Uh, we ended up. The next one. We were for a weekend. We were going to both do saturday and sunday Up in northern wisconsin and I thought we were really good. Um, they had what they called a breaking bird on the water. There was it landed like 15 20 yards right in front of her and I was a second bird and she launched and went and got that one. So We ended up feeling our second season attempt as well, Oh man man, um, and Something I might have done differently going forward is I.
Speaker 3:I continued to finish where I probably should have just stopped her and like Hey, no, you, that wasn't right, yes, and just stopped, um, but we had worked so hard on the blind that I moved over and it did the blind And it was like on a point kind of an unangle away. Yeah, she did like a one, a perfect sit in the water and an angle back, cast right to it, and they're like that was the best blind we've seen all day, you know, like man, ah, but we broke on the first man, man, what's encouraging to that?
Speaker 2:that kind of adds a little bit of fuel fire for you.
Speaker 3:It did. And so then we came back the next day. Um, i think we did a bunch of like Denials with a tennis ball in a park or something the next morning, just to get some energy out and Don't go until we say you go, that's right. Um, and then we've now passed the last three in a row to get our season titles. So That's excellent. Um, yeah, no, it's. It's uh frustrating and and challenging and and fun all at the same time, but, um, i'm using it as a goal to continue with the training. Um, deadlines and things like that motivate me.
Speaker 3:Yeah so that's kind of why I'm leaning toward Continuing on and maybe doing the finished level, just to keep my, keep my my mind in the mindset of training and continuing to progress. Berlunah and I that's excellent.
Speaker 2:No, I think that's a solid move. Definitely got to always have that goal in mind and then get those hunt tests knocked out. Then we'll have hunting season coming up and then it the cycle repeats. It's.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah that's crazy too. You say that recycle, repeats this year. I was surprised at the things, like last year being her first like full hunting season, um, where she was in a good spot and could handle, and things like that. The things that popped up this spring were crazy, like dropping birds when you get out of the water or things like that. I'm like holy cow, what You never did that before. But it's fun. That just is me learning to be a trainer that you're just gonna have to work on stuff every year.
Speaker 2:You know it's like one of those things, like they're a perception may be that, yeah, one day I'll have a finished dog and then it's finished, but really it never just stops like this. This is a work of art that you always add to for the life of the dog, for as long as they live. You can always improve upon. You know, if you're comparing this to a sculpture that an artist is sculpting, you can always improve upon it. It's just a matter of chiseling away little by little. Um, if you keep that constant state of improvement, nothing degrades really. But if you're like, oh, i've made it, it won't take long and it's, things will start to degrade pretty quickly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, i, i definitely learned that, uh, coming out of last season into this season and um, that's great though, because That's good to know and I can plan for it and it's, you know, luna has got me. I'm outside almost every day that I'm not at work with that's incredible, doing some training or just hiking or You know it's, it's awesome. So, yeah, i can look forward to hopefully she has a nice long length.
Speaker 2:Lord will and she will. That's incredible. So, yeah, that's another benefit of having a dog too, that is, is they do keep you going, they get you out and out and about well, um, um. You know, this has been incredible thus far and I'd love to have you on another podcast at some point as you continue your journey.
Speaker 2:I love to talk about some more things, um, but in closing in closing, what would, what would be One of your greatest Thing, what was one of the things that stood out the most to you? like what lesson did you learn As far as training a retriever has stood out the most to you? That like rear. Like you, it just like hang your hat on, so to speak.
Speaker 3:Yeah, i think I found the the most success with um, with training and stuff, when I, you know, wasn't trying to to see what she can do, so to speak. Yeah, you know, when I was seeing what she could do with hunt tests is when we had some of our struggles. Wow, and that was kind of my mantra. When you know that first member weekend, you know, don't test your dog. You know, do everything you can to set it up for success. You know, put it in situations that it can succeed. And I think that's probably The best thing, because if you're not trying to test your dog, you're less likely to get frustrated as well.
Speaker 3:Right and so you're positive, the dog's positive, and it just snowballs in a good way.
Speaker 2:That's good advice. That's good advice. That's incredible. Well, well, matt, it's been a pleasure having you on Um. What last thing? we always close on this question What would be your advice? Um, outside of, i threw that one in there. That was a fun new question, but what was uh? what would be your advice? What would be your advice to somebody that's uh thinking about getting into this? that, uh, that's just, they're brand new. They don't know anything. What would be your advice?
Speaker 3:Honestly it feels like a plug, but I for me, that was me, i was, this is exactly me, and 52 plus just the way it built on itself And you know, you're able to see violet from puppy to gun dog, with the mess ups in between. Um, i learned more than um Than anything from seeing you guys work through that stuff. You know, seeing when it goes wrong, and That's the handle of stuff. I feel like, yeah, learning what to do and how to respond when you're not seeing what you were hoping you would see.
Speaker 3:Um and positivity wins over and that Yeah, yeah, you don't have to.
Speaker 2:You don't have to force it to make it work. Sometimes it seems counterintuitive, right, when things go south, it's like, oh, we got to put more pressure here and fix it, when in reality, sometimes less pressure is more. And Just how you handle a situation and it's hard to put into words, uh, but how you handle a situation can, can get the outcome you're looking for without, uh, without even firing a shot. Really, it's just a matter of just how you position things Right. Well for sure, well, that's been that's good advice to you. Thank you for sharing that too. By the way, we're always appreciative of that. When people recommend us, that tells us you you've enjoyed it.
Speaker 2:Um, and I will say I have. I can attest, i've seen Luna in person and I've seen Matt, his wife, in person. They've just done an incredible job with their dog and, uh, you know just exemplary cga members. Just put in the work. You know you're, you're diligent, you've been out, you've been consistent and that's More than anything. You know, if you, if you put in the work, you don't have to to know everything, but just put in the work, just on a consistent basis, and you can end up with something. That's something pretty good. But, matt, really it's been a pleasure to have you on. I do look forward to, uh, seeing you guys again as soon as we can, and, um, yeah, maybe we'll have you on here again at some point. That'd be great. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you, sir, and until next time We'll see you then and build from here.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the build from here podcast. To learn more about retriever training or our podcast, visit cornerstone gun dog academycom slash podcast.