Build From Here
Build From Here
Anyone Can Take The Next Step: First Time Retriever Trainers Jarod & Melody Free | BFH #064
Training a retriever can be a rollercoaster of triumphs and challenges. Jarod and Melody Free have grown familiar with these ups and downs over the past 18 months. Join us as Jarod and Melody share how one expensive house repair lead to them taking on the challenge of training their dog, Punch, on their own with the help of our courses. From tackling the fetch hold release phase to navigating the nuances of retriever training drills, their story is a testament to the power of persistence, patience, and fun in retriever training.
All right, here's where. And it was at that fetch hold release phase where we were at.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that phase was a little tough on us, I think, Because I think that's where I saw every time we would do was it fetch and hold in the garage.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And she would drop her shoulders and her ears would go back as she walked into the garage and I was like something's wrong, Like she's not. This is supposed to be fun.
Speaker 1:Anytime, if I raise my right hand, my left hand, she's going to turn to her left. When we have spatial pressure she'll turn the right way, but in an open field it's a little bit. That's the generalization, right? So that's, it's a little bit different. I expect you to you know what back is, but now we need to figure out which direction is which. So let's take punch out. I know I can go shoot three, four or five ducks. She had some great retrieves. I tried to get her to. Instead of coming back to me, I was trying to get her to come back and hand the bird to me. She just swam right past me, right past Melody, and just swam back to place and just went and sat on place.
Speaker 2:She went on place for probably 30 seconds before I had to walk over there and get it.
Speaker 4:That's hilarious. Cornerstone Gundog Academy online resources to help you train your retriever. Welcome to the Build From here podcast On this episode. I'm so honored and excited to have a couple on Jared and Melody Free.
Speaker 2:How are you doing Pretty good, Doing good how are you?
Speaker 4:Josh Doing good. Welcome aboard. And let me just say before we get going, it's an honor to have you guys on. We just got back from the field training with your dog and y'all have done an incredible job. Just the obedience, just the punch was just so engaged and just so eager to work for y'all. So I think one of the biggest things that I just want to hit on the front is that you can tell that your dog does stuff because it wants to do it, not because y'all forced it to do it, because y'all built that team bond. So I know we'll get into all that, we'll get into your story and all that. But I just wanted to highlight that because, like it very much stood out when we were out in the field. I'm sure even the camera guys noticed Like it was. Y'all have done a really good job and I'm proud of you all.
Speaker 2:I appreciate that it's been a lot of work.
Speaker 4:Well, so you made the drive here. Let's talk about that, where you guys are from, and we'll kind of go from there.
Speaker 1:Definitely so. We're originally both from the Dallas area, so DFW Frisco, specifically Born and raised, went to college out on the East Coast and now we've moved back. We've been there for about four years since we've graduated and settled down in a small town, kind of northeast Dallas, nice.
Speaker 4:Where did you all go to school, liberty?
Speaker 1:University. Okay, cool, I went there for two years played baseball Really. Then went to Ouachita Baptist in Arkansas, nice. I got to experience all the craziness there, but you were there for.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I stayed there for four years. At Liberty it was kind of a blessing in disguise to do that, because we had been together for so long to do long distance, kind of right before we got married, just to learn how to communicate, how to be your independent person before you make that big commitment. But yeah, so time has definitely flown by and now we're stuck together forever.
Speaker 4:So let's talk about that. When did uh y'all met in middle school, before then, or yeah?
Speaker 1:Yeah, so we we met in eighth grade. Wow, uh, I was not as outgoing as I am now, a lot more quiet, and I had just changed schools. It's kind of hanging out by myself. This girl felt bad for me and was like I'm going to go sit with this hot lion. Wow, came over and sat next to me and just started a conversation and just we clicked from there and we've been together for Every time someone asks how long have y'all been together?
Speaker 2:I have to like try and do the math.
Speaker 1:We're starting to get past finger counting, so we're good Wow.
Speaker 4:Wow, that's so cool. So you always just felt like that's important to you, like if you see someone like you could just you have that compassion like you need to yeah.
Speaker 2:I guess I was a little bit more outgoing. I think it's flipped. I'm kind of an introvert now and he just all the time.
Speaker 4:so that's pretty cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah, wow, we fit together well.
Speaker 4:So y'all so did y'all stay in school, like go through high school and everything? Both decided to go to Liberty to get or just worked out that way, or yeah.
Speaker 1:So I kind of followed her in a sense. We went. So we we both were very competitive in the sports that we played. She was a soccer player, I was, I was a baseball player and my, my dream was to go play at a D one school. Wow, and I got an opportunity to go play at the same school that she had that she had committed to a few years prior. So I was crossing my fingers for that. I had a few other offers that I was waiting out on and eventually had the coach reach out and was able to go and hang out there.
Speaker 1:But it was so interesting because when we did go to college we've always been just tight, wow, and always done everything together, haven't gotten sick of her. Even seeing her every day I can't get enough. That's so cool. But then when I went and played at Watchtower, which is, I mean, 10 hours plus, it actually was really great for us because she was able to develop great relationships with girls on her team. I was able to do the same on my baseball team at my new school and now we have like even just on the drive here we stopped at a friend that I met playing baseball halfway across the country that's going to be one of my best friends for life, that's so cool.
Speaker 1:We've been together a long time and now we've been I think we've been married about three and a half years now.
Speaker 4:That's amazing. How did that conversation go, that decision? I'm sure like you're like hey, this is a big move, like we're about to be 10 hours apart and clearly y'all had been together for a while. But that was kind of like did that take some thought?
Speaker 1:or like it had been boiling over for a while for me. I wanted to play college baseball so desperately and I do I was going to do anything to get out and play, and I was only getting a little bit of playing time. The guys that were in front of me were just I mean, they were just better than me.
Speaker 3:It's hard to admit.
Speaker 4:It was hard to admit then. Now I'm cool with it Thanks to real man to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:They were just better than me, and so, no matter how hard I worked, I was always that kind of guy. I was like the only reason I was on the field was because I worked hard at it.
Speaker 3:Makes sense, yeah.
Speaker 1:So I wanted to go somewhere.
Speaker 3:I was like you know.
Speaker 1:I want to go somewhere where I can go get playing time. And when I told her I was like, hey, I'm thinking of transferring, I want to go play, and she was like go chase your dreams. That's awesome and that's how it's always been, and I feel the same for her.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually remember that moment it was. I usually get pretty stressed and anxious about big decisions like that, but I just felt so much peace about it. I was like I can't, you know as tired as we are, I can't make you stay here out of guilt or obligation. I was like, oh, do what you want to do, I know how hard you work.
Speaker 2:So like I had said earlier, it was such a big blessing in disguise because of you know just how much we grew as a couple, even though we went from seeing each other every single day to now it was like three times a year because both playing sports like we can't fly home or drive home, and you know we don't have any weekends to spare so home, and you know we don't have any weekends to spare.
Speaker 2:So wow. But then, um, we got married right after graduation and so it was just. It made all that so much more sweet so much more perfect it. We cherish that time so much, that's really cool, so much more.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I'm sure that seems like it strengthened you guys bond and now you're I mean, if that's you know that strengthened your bond training a dog together oh that was a whole
Speaker 1:new test that was a whole new one, yeah, so before we kind of get into the dog training.
Speaker 4:We got to talk about hunting, so y'all, both hunt y'all both passionate about hunting. Um, I don't remember the exact story, but I believe you were into it first and then maybe you introduced her to the sport. How did all that go? Who got you into hunting and then? How did you get her into hunting, and absolutely what time and timing of all?
Speaker 1:that Me getting into hunting is actually pretty funny. I was 10. My dad got me a little youth model 870. Nice, I was obsessed with wanting to go shoot it. But we'd go and hunt dove every once in a while. He grew up down in like South Texas area, like Port Arthur, orange, duck hunting in the marshes back when you could, no one would catch you sneaking onto people's land. So he has a bunch of pictures of just all the straps of ducks they would shoot down there. It's great stories. But after he got married and had me, I'm the it's like 10 or 10, 11 years he didn't hunt hardly at all. Since he moved from south texas up to up to north texas and dallas and I was 11 I really wanted to like.
Speaker 3:I kept seeing hog hunting videos I really wanted to, really want to do that um my dad.
Speaker 1:instead of giving me like a rifle or something to go do that, he got me. It's July, my birthday is in July, so he got me a blind bag and neoprene waders and I was like what am I supposed to do with this? It's 110 degrees. I was mad. I was kind of spoiled at the time. I was really mad about it.
Speaker 3:And's so funny.
Speaker 1:Little did he know it would spark, I mean, something that I've been obsessed about for 15 years Wow, I can't get enough of it. We cut our teeth walking in at some of the local lakes over a few years. Got a boat Wow and that transitioned into. Next step was getting a, a trained dog, from someone and I would take her even when no one else would come with me, even when he had work. I'd skip school, go sleep in the truck with with Remy and I'd go hunt with myself if I had to.
Speaker 4:Man, that's what it's about. That's awesome. Some of the best gifts come in like, like that, you know like. I don't know Some of the best gifts I've had. When I first got home I was like, yeah, I just don't know about this but it turns out to be one of the very best gifts.
Speaker 1:Oh, the very best. That's cool. That sparked into when we met in eighth grade when we were about 14. So I'd been hunting for probably three, four years at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then did not come from a hunting family at all. I've always been like an outdoors person, always liked to be outside. I'd go fishing with like my dad every now and then and but I'd always had an interest in hunting. But no one did take me or anything like that. And so when we had met and he's already kind of insane about it it was really intimidating and you know we were 14. I just wanted him to like me, so I, I think I had either you had offered to take me or I kind of offered it up like, oh, I'll go with you, and, um, I honestly don't even remember my first time at all because I kind of thought it would be like a one and done just so that I could hang. And, uh, turns out it, it snowballed into really you know, soon enough I was, you know.
Speaker 2:He got me a blind bag and then I got my own gun. And now my wedding anniversary gift this past year is my Sitco waiter.
Speaker 4:There he is. That's amazing, that's awesome.
Speaker 2:It's snowballed into something that I'm also really passionate about. It's been cool individually, because I like it too, just by myself, but then, obviously, I have a very unique hobby that we do together Wow, and every year it gets more and more crazy.
Speaker 1:I vividly remember I know you don't remember but I vividly remember before we're going out and hunting, because at the time we had just gotten layout blinds. The water has been super low for a number of years. So we're kind of water is 40, 50 yards from the tree line, so you kind of have to figure something out to be low profile. So we bought, we bought some layouts and I'm sitting there and someone that hadn't shot a gun a whole lot Layouts can be a. It's kind of an intimidating thing. We're in the driveway and she's lit, she's laid down like all right, you go like this and you go up and shoot and you're like you can only shoot this area. This is how you load the gun.
Speaker 2:I remember we sat for hours just going over everything, so overwhelming yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'll give it to her, our first hunt. Funny enough, we shot. I mean, we shot like one bird and it was this beautiful plumed out late season Drake shoveler. Oh yeah, and I couldn't even see it. It flew in straight into the sun, oh yeah, shoveler and I couldn't even see it. It flew in straight into the sun and she pulled, she popped, popped up. I didn't even see it and she shot one time and killed it.
Speaker 2:I think he's making this up Cause I do not remember.
Speaker 1:I got the picture. There's a picture of it, I just don't remember. I got the picture, it's real, it's a really funny picture.
Speaker 2:I'm just like holding it and wait Waiters that are way too big for me, that's so cool.
Speaker 1:It's blossoming into something where we get to share it together. Now that's really special. Now, throughout the past 18 months, training punched together and it's the same thing that we've always done just pretty much everything together. I know some guys like their alone time. Personally, I like to share it.
Speaker 4:I like the team effort thing too. I mean, there's nothing better than that. Like you said, it makes sense for some, but that team effort thing is the way to go.
Speaker 4:Totally Because you just get to enjoy things. There's just some moments out there hunting that you can't describe it to people. I mean, we can try to describe it as we're on this episode, but you don't know it until you've been there. You have to experience it. 100, so it's a punch. So clearly, y'all we're gonna fast forward. No dog in college, I imagine. Too busy, too busy, yeah. So y'all got married. What a lot of people get a dog when they first get married. Is that the case? Or you have to wait a little bit? What was y'all's idea? I'm like we need to get a dog we waited for about a year.
Speaker 1:I knew, given my previous dog, remy, I knew how important it was to have a good bloodline. I knew it's not this, uh, all this stuff. And at first she was like I don't want to. Like, I don't want to get her trained, like convinced her into it. We saved up for expensive it's very expensive. And so we saved up for a calendar year. Um, at the beginning of that we got in line for first pick female from uh, tim seguin and blazing gun dogs. Not sure if you're familiar with that oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Uh, killer dogs. Um, and that's that it was probably a year into. It was when we ended up getting punch. Wow.
Speaker 4:That's awesome. So y'all were saved up for training. Yeah, what was that? The previous experience? I think you said you had another dog that was already trained right, Was that the previous experience. I think you said you had another dog that was already trained, right?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did your dad sent?
Speaker 1:it to training or you sent it to training or how did all that go? So we got Remy as a started dog. Okay, she was about a year when we got her and we just had seen she was a little bit, a little more timid, but she was very sweet. But I mean, there was no mark mark, there was no blind that this dog really couldn't do and wow, um I know a lot of guys like to boost their dogs up she was, she was, she was great. Yeah, I mean I love like. One of my favorite memories was we shot this bird and it sailed off. I mean 250 yards across, across this late, like across this finger of the lake, landed in the bank on the other side. She was over retrieving another bird and so line her up, send her on it swims all the way across, tell her to hunt it up on on the other side, gets it from under a log and brings it back like this was this type of I mean, it was something that like I would have never.
Speaker 3:I've never got that bird ever and so that was kind of like it's one of those cool moments, because she'd do things like that all the time.
Speaker 1:So our next dog had a lot of, had big shoes to fill, and that's why I saw the importance of going and getting a dog trainer. Like I could never do that, I don't have the time, I don't have the energy, the knowledge, all of it. It's, it's so, it's too much, I can't handle it. Yeah, and so that's why we ultimately like at the beginning it was like all right, we'll save them, we'll save up this much, um, we'll have enough training for I'll have something saved up for the dog. And 12 months of training wow, and after that we'll reevaluate. Do I want to learn, learn and then keep the dog? And 12 months of training Wow, and after that we'll reevaluate. Do I want to learn?
Speaker 1:learn and then keep the dog up myself or just keep sitting her back was kind of like the initial plan.
Speaker 4:Okay, well, what changed?
Speaker 2:Our air conditioning broke in the house. That's honestly that's what, and so it was. We had to pay for it. You can't, you can't, be June in Texas and not have air conditioning. It was so hot, so we had we had to pay for it. You can't, you can't, be june and texas and not have your condition. That was so hot.
Speaker 2:So we had we had to buy a whole new one long story short and we were kind of like well, I guess we're trying to punch ourselves, and so yeah, um, I think we had. We had gone back and forth between doing cornerstone and sending her off, and so just doing cornerstone is the next next best thing and it has been. Just I'm so glad it happened that way way it's been such a blessing because to think, you know, sometimes I'll think and be like, wow, we had sent her off, like we wouldn't even had all this experience with her, all the memories.
Speaker 2:And she'd be down somewhere in Houston or something like that. Right now we don't even, we don't even get to see her, and whenever she is back it's. You know she's our dog, but kind of not. And you know you build such relationship with her whenever you're doing the training. I know that's kind of a cliche thing to say, but it's so true. It's just I don't know. I think she's a he would agree too. She's a very, very, very affectionate dog.
Speaker 2:Just, I mean, if she were here, her head would just be right here, just sitting there, and I really think that's because of all the hours that we have spent together.
Speaker 4:um, I just not only does it bond you to the dog, but bonds the dog to you as well. So I'm so glad it happened. Wow, that's crazy. And so y'all took the plunge and then decided I mean, obviously you don't want to wait and try to save up more while your dog is just waste away, right?
Speaker 4:it's important to get started quick you know well, so you maybe had some apprehension before, but so your back is against the wall now. Now we've got to actually do this. What was your thoughts when you pulled the trigger and like, were you still nervous about this, like when you first got started, or did all that pretty much go away? Whenever you're like you know what we're just going to do it.
Speaker 1:I was. I don't know if we felt. I think we felt a little different. She's a little more loose with things. I'm very rigid. As soon as I did the research I was like, okay, cornerstone was the way I want to go.
Speaker 2:Watch the videos as much as I could four times through the first like three months of life, I was like all with 52 plus in one sitting, I was like we can't do this, oh my gosh, I was like we'll just take it as it goes.
Speaker 1:It's fine, he's like no, we have to watch the whole thing. Yeah, very rigid, a little hardheaded sometimes, but that's how I always treated baseball and that was the only reason I was ever good. Yeah, just pushing through exactly again. You get a program, you stick to it, you do exactly what it says and you'll end up on the other side.
Speaker 1:a better player 100, and that's how I was looking the same way as as training a dog and, um, it was, it was nerve-wracking. I mean it's, it's the unknown right. It's like you get this puppy that is this thing gonna even know how to retrieve? It's the unknown right. It's like you get this puppy that is this thing going to even know how to retrieve anything? Is it going to have it drive? Is it going to be able, or is it just going to end up being a log that sits in my house, which I would still love it just as much.
Speaker 1:That's how we bought it. I bought you like I'm not spending all this money for you to sit at my house, let's be honest. So it is nerve-wracking. Yeah, it's, it's the unknown. So you want to make sure that, like, you're as prepared and you give that dog the best chance that it can have. Yeah, because it's it's. Its potential is so much more than 100 what I could probably ever give punch. Yeah, and so she can. She can probably do a lot more than what I have her doing right now, but yeah, that's where I have her now is something we're very proud of.
Speaker 4:So should be really good. You know one thing we had a training on this. We need to get another training out so that people can hear this again because it's a really good concept. I'll try to dumb it down in about one minute here, but basically, like you know, as a trainer, like and I think we're going to talk about this in a minute because you know you like you know as a trainer, like and I think we're gonna talk about this in a minute, because you mentioned something you know maybe a little like rigid, hardheaded at times, and so part of this process, uh, refines you as you go through, because in that personality that you have fits really well, the go with the flow at times. But there's that blend of finding that perfect blend of, okay, when do I need to be rigid? But there's that blend of finding that perfect blend of okay, when do I need to be rigid, when do I need to be loose, and that's really hard to find. But you can't find it through trying to get it here. You just have to feel it and you have to experience it and go through that process.
Speaker 4:But we you know trainers go through like a four-phase process themselves. Like both of you, everybody, I go through it. Every time I train a dog. We go through it. It starts with a dream phase. Like you have this idea, like you'll have this idea I want a duck dog. I'm buying a dog to go hunting with me. Y'all's dream kind of got turned upside down because it's like we had one plan but now we've got to alternate, which is great.
Speaker 4:But then you go through the process of starting to train. A lot of times we run into what's called the dip phase. Right, that's where we were on cloud nine, but now we're not, because we realize how far we are from that dream. And so there's one path forward at this point it's develop, it's to grow, and you have to go through the development phase. And once you go through development, you can finally go to the demonstration or the fulfillment of that dream. But really, where the rubber meets, the road is from the dip to the development. Those are the two most important parts, and as you grow through the process, that's how you're going to get there.
Speaker 4:So and it seems that y'all have already done that and we've already talked about this a little bit when we're out in the field, but some of the challenges maybe you face, right, it sounded like you wanted to just follow it perfectly to the T and, and that's good, but one of the things in Cornerstone is that it is meant to be followed, but it's meant to not be rigid. It's meant to teach you what you need to know so that you can make adaptations on the fly, you can make choices on the fly that work. How have you all found, how long did it take you to figure that out? Was it something like that was clearly obvious, or it kind of like was just a slow unfold as you went through some of the weeks to where you're at now, to realize okay, maybe we need to do things from different angles at times.
Speaker 1:It took me longer than I'd like to admit. I think it took me seven months to realize that, and the only reason I did was because of her. And that's why I think doing like when, Josh, when me and you talked on the phone and you said, oh, let's do this podcast, it sounds really great and I said I need to do it with Melody. Yeah, Because I would not be anywhere near where we're at right now without her, Right, Because she's more light, she's more fluid and I'm a little bit more rigid. So, having the mix between the two, it was we did seven months of obedience, cause I had to make sure that she did everything exactly perfect before we moved on. And Melody's like I hope you know we don't need to spend three and a half weeks on a heel. I hope you know we don't need to spend three and a half weeks on a heel, but we did. But I did because I'm a little hard-headed and it was amazing once we got to that point where she was able to bring me into all.
Speaker 2:Right, here's where and it was at that fetch hold release phase where we were at yeah, that phase was a little tough on us, I think, because I think that's where I saw every time we would do was it fetch and hold in the garage yeah and um, and I'd be like, come on, punch, let's go do it, because I would do that with her while he was working, because he works at home, and she would drop her shoulders and ears, would go back as she walked into the garage and I was like something's wrong like she's not, and this is supposed to be fun.
Speaker 2:And there's rigidity Isn't a bad thing, I think like you're saying like there's a trust, the process, keep doing it even when it's not working out. Um, but there's that fine line and I was like the we're so past, so far past that line, like she's not even having fun, like what's the point? Um, so I think I like I remember the day you were having calls in your office and we had some frozen birds in the freezer that we were going to use for training and I knew he was going to be mad, but I went ahead and got him out and got her excited about him and she was so excited and she was happy and jumping around and that's when it clicked for her to grab it, because beforehand she would just kind of smell it and look away and be sad.
Speaker 2:And then it was probably going to her and I spent an hour doing that in the garage and then I went and got him. I was like, come, look at this.
Speaker 3:And she was doing it and he was like what, what did you do?
Speaker 2:I was like we had fun. So I think that kind of flipped a corner for the both of us, because there is that fine line between trusting the process and doing what the program says is it's. It's there for a reason. Yeah, but not every dog is the same, and some dogs, I would imagine, love fetch and hold and some a lot don't, and so you kind of have to figure out.
Speaker 2:You know the little tricks and personalities and the quirks and things like that. So A lot of it was trial and error A lot of trial and error.
Speaker 4:That's good, and and it's the gets to versus has to as well, and exactly I think you all have a great grasp on that and a lot of people don't, because it's not super clear out there. Like a lot of the training methods out there. It's like we're gonna force our dog to do this because if I say it, it's got to do it. Look, that's great, right? I mean, yeah, we want our dogs to perform like we have an expectation maybe a higher expectation than even some of the people that are training that way for their dogs but not at the expense of the dog itself. Like there's that fine line of we're going to find a way to unlock this dog, which you did, which is so cool. You're like, all right, let's just try something different. And you tried it and you unlocked your dog. That's what a trainer does and that's what. But it doesn't.
Speaker 4:Good trainers also beat their heads against walls. I mean, you're just going to do it, you're going to go, and it's like, man, this isn't working, this isn't working. What makes the trainer good is that you choose not to quit and you'll have that drive and you're. But we're going to keep going. Not quitting is just that ultimate key. But how do you feel like some of the methodology, just like some of the things you're learning. Do you feel like that made it like you know, I don't know how your last dog was trained versus this dog, but like the gets to versus has to. Concept Like we're going to, concept, like we're gonna, if we can get our dog to do something because it actually wants to do it, versus like my dog just has to do this because I tell it to you. Do you feel like some of that helped y'all, as y'all kind of have gone through as well and little by little on, uh, pull back the layers on all that?
Speaker 1:yeah, absolutely. I think, um, these dogs are bred to be able to do this. It's our job to be able to foster that, hone that in and direct that energy into the way that where, rather than me saying you have to do this, no, it's, they get to because this is fun for them. Right, this is what they live like, this is what they live for, right, and you can, you can a hundred percent tell if you're, if you're thinking like I did, where you're, you're going on the Facebook page and you're like my dog doesn't like bumpers. You're at six months old, seven months old, and you're like you're at six months old, seven months old, and you're like my dog doesn't like bumpers. You know, maybe bringing out the tennis ball might help it might help.
Speaker 2:Every dog likes a good tennis ball, but the bumper.
Speaker 1:I've experienced the same thing. I went to go write the same exact post at six or seven months. My dog doesn't like bump. Yeah, look at their body language of how they react, how they respond to respond to a number of of how you're training, like how you're training it, and you'll be able to tell if it's that they're doing it because they have to or they're doing it because they get to Right. And that's where I vividly remember one of our training sessions she's not enjoying it, she's not retreat, like she's kind of running out and getting the bumper. Yeah, kind of running back. I mean, you saw how quick she is, unbelievable.
Speaker 3:I mean one of the fastest dogs I've ever seen.
Speaker 1:That's not just because she's my dog.
Speaker 4:It's legitimate.
Speaker 1:It's crazy impressive. She got wheels. She didn't used to do that Right, and the only reason she started doing that is because we started having more fun. Wow, and really what we found for Punch was all right. If you do something right, what is like, yes, that's for me. She's doing that because I told her to. She's not doing it because she gets to. What is the get to? The get to is something fun, a fun bumper. Some people don't like the fun bumper. Personally, that unlocked my dog's potential.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I agree with that and that was because you're like you need to throw more fun bumpers and get her excited and I was like, no, I don't, I'm not doing that. She's going to learn how to break your dog's not going to, it's not going to ruin your dog If you're more consistent on being steady and your dog's reward is that fun bumper or figure. Every dog's a little bit different. Whatever is fine for them Um, for us it was. It was fun bumpers with punch, and now she's.
Speaker 2:Yeah, as long as you're showing there's a difference between the real bumper, the real retrieve, and a fun bumper For us. She knows that if we're swinging it like this she knows it's a fun bumper and she gets all excited and she can go whenever she wants.
Speaker 3:It makes sense.
Speaker 2:But she knows that when she's at heel or if she's on place, then it's serious.
Speaker 1:It's go time, right right, so, and that was the what we kind of, and that was something you didn't teach us. That that was, or the that specific thing. That was something that, as we went through the process of learning all the different weeks and we got to um month, seven, eight, whatever we were at at that time, it was something that you had said, or in the foundations piece. It was that generalization or like how specific dogs are to certain commands.
Speaker 1:Right, it's like you can sit at home. Why are we at Home Depot or Shields and you can't sit in there? What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2:It's still that way.
Speaker 3:It's still that way yeah.
Speaker 1:I was thinking. I was like well, if this dog's very specific, why don't we, whenever we do real training, she's on place, or she's at heel, or she's remote sit somewhere? Fun bumper is all right. Take her off place, swing it around, have a good time, let her know that this is time for fun.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And we throw it for her and that hasn't really affected our breaking at all. Most of her breaking is because if the water splashes, it's fired up a lot. She can't stand a good splash, but we're working on that she did good today.
Speaker 4:We did work through that. We had Violet and her working together and I think that seemed to help her. Like after we had a couple of that, which is funny. You mentioned that I didn't think about that. I spun the bumper and then she broke and that's what that was. So that makes a lot of sense now.
Speaker 2:I was like okay.
Speaker 4:So that was my bad. I'm sorry about that. That is something good to talk about real quick too, because being lenient with your dog, when you put them in new situations to reteach them or generalize, a lot of people don't think about that. So when they go, you go to, let's say you go to like. Let's say you go to Home Depot or wherever, and your expectations are here, but your dog's abilities are here in this environment. They have to be retaught and those are dangerous places to go to at times too, if you go at the wrong time and the wrong person walks up, nothing against them.
Speaker 4:But like, when the people come up and they start reinforcing your dog, falling all over your dog, and it's pulling on you, all that's doing is reinforcing it. So your dog has those expectations moving forward. So you really have to be cognizant and this is just one scenario and I haven't always done this right. So my dog would love to be excited too, because for some reason, people just want to come pet my dog when I go out in places. I think that's most dogs. I probably need one of those shirts that says don't pet my dog.
Speaker 4:I've never been able to do that. I just don't want to wear that shirt. You know what I mean. But it's like understanding that generalization principle. I think if we understand those concepts, it's okay to be a loose underdog If they're a pro in the yard but you go to a new place but they're like a newbie, it's okay.
Speaker 1:We're just going to work through it. That's what training is for. That's right. What's the point of training if you're going to go to a new spot or do something new and your expectations are too high? It's great to have expectations. For me, expectations are wherever we go. Now I've worked on it enough. Your obedience is going to be good, not in every situation. Wherever are you going to be able to mark that burden exactly the right way that you need to? Or you're not going to be able to do the right hand signal at the right time? Right, we haven't worked on that enough. Yeah, and that's where that's something we were working through today.
Speaker 4:That was fun too. It was just crazy like little details. Little details make a big difference.
Speaker 1:That was that was, and getting into that. Um, what we did basically was punch when we we we just got back onto um hand signals from when she was, when we introduced it, when she was really early. Yeah, um, now we're back into doing that in the field. Anytime I, if I raise my right hand or my left hand, she's going to turn to her left, and so how do we? When we have spatial pressure, she'll turn the right way, but in an open field it's a little, it's a. That's the generalization, right, so that's it's a little bit different.
Speaker 1:I expect you to you know what back is. But now we need to figure out which directions, which. It's spatial pressure, it's simplifying and shortening down, and that's what we did to get how do you? Ultimately, the goal is get the dog win, yeah, and so how do you shorten it up or add spatial pressure to all? Right, you're going to understand that left hand is you turn to your right, right, and that's what we were able to do. And now I can go back home in an open field and do exactly that, and over time we'll stretch that distance out 100% and then we'll have both directions unlocked and there'll be a great application for the field with it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it is all about those wins. I always go back to this story. When I was a kid, I'd come downstairs at my parents' house and we always had the forks and the spoons in the same drawer and I'd get my morning caffeine mixed up every single morning. Well, I don't know why they decided to move it one day, but they did. They moved it to the drawer on the opposite side and I know that they moved it and I even think about it when I'm going downstairs. I go downstairs, I'm sleepy, I go to the wrong drawer. I did. When I'm going downstairs, I go downstairs, I'm sleepy, I go to the wrong drawer.
Speaker 4:I do this for like months because I've been doing it for years. It's the same concept. Like you can win the day just by getting wins and repetition, because at a certain point it's just muscle memory. Like if you do something enough. Like you're going to fall back on that more often than not and that's also a dangerous thing. If you do the wrong things enough, like if you let your dog just get away with things too much, that can be dangerous, but you can't have that expectation if you've been letting your dog get away with something. Like to go all of a sudden.
Speaker 4:Now I expect my dog to listen in front of other people. That's too much of a burden on them and it's going to make you stressed for no reason, because the dog is going to do what it's been doing the most of. So it's important to get that repetition, like we talked about here, and getting the dog the win. And some people I feel like and we talked about this earlier are afraid to cheat. It's okay to cheat to get your dog a win. It's about the win for the dog, because every win is a step in the right direction. It's all moves. It's never a big jump, it's all little steps in the right direction. And every step in the right direction I consider that good. Any step in the wrong direction, we consider that not good.
Speaker 4:It just takes us away from where we want to go. I just wanted to hone in on that, because you said something so good. I felt like we had to drop that tip Absolutely.
Speaker 1:And so many people think I thought initially I was like I need to go out and I need to train my dog for an hour, and you said little. Like so many people think, I thought initially I was like I need to go out and I need to train my dog for an hour, yeah, and then you said little steps.
Speaker 1:So this is what this reminds me of Like once I figured out that our attention span isn't that long, right, we need to make sure that we, like I, will always have 20 minutes 10 to 20 minutes in my day to go out and get enough small wins to make that day worth training. That's all that dog needs 100%. Yes, now we can, like today, we can go out and train for an hour and a half and she can handle it now, and that's just a maturity thing. But when you're going through your first 18 months, those little steps enough little steps. I mean, think of where you end up in 18 months after a bunch of little steps.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and that's why that consistency piece is is so wildly important yeah, it really is a series of decisions, good or bad, where I was talking about the other day with someone because I was thinking about, like you know, like you work out hard and then you see some results. But it really you and I've learned this from the dogs you can control exactly what your dog looks like by their food intake and you think about what you do the most of as humans. Like we eat more than we work out. Like you might work out if you're just superman, you might work out two times a day. Right, you might do that five days a week. Well, we're eating-plus times a day. You multiply that over the whole year, even if you're not doing a lot during those times. It's just the compounding effect of little decisions, whether good or bad. Eat bad over time, feel bad.
Speaker 4:Eat good over time, feel good, dog training, little decisions. You feel like you're making no progress but you compound that. I don't know. Maybe it's the secret key to success or something, but whatever it is, it just you wake up one day and it's like how did we get here? Y'all didn't wake up today and just go out there and train your dog once, to get where y'all are at currently and to have that beautiful heel work, the beautiful recall. I mean she was out there, your dog was running. You let her out because you were airing her when we got out and then you called her and she came on the first whistle recall and set on place immediately. And you didn't do that from going out there and just giving off. You did that because you were intentional. That was effortless for you today, right, but you put in effort before.
Speaker 1:I wish there was a video compilation of what had to go through to get that, for example. I was telling you this earlier, but for everyone listening, like we live on our homes. We live on an acre. We don't have a fence.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I literally had to buy this dog collar that had a tracker on it. It's called five dog collar. Um, I think you guys should look it up. It's great, but we'd be out training and she would run you turn around and she's gone, gone. I mean, I don't even know where, it's so stressful.
Speaker 3:Three four houses down.
Speaker 1:I'm like I don't know where my very expensive dog is, and so much so I had to buy a little tracker collar to be able to track her down the street. I can't buy a fence for an acre yet Maybe maybe one day, but that wouldn't be a cheap fence.
Speaker 1:No no, it is, and I've already looked into it. I'm going to sell a lot more stuff, but it was so many frustrating but consistent days that now you, you see vision. You're like all right, I want my vision, my vision for this dog, at the very least, I wanted to have amazing obedience. Yeah, that's the.
Speaker 1:That's the foundation of a great gun dog, yeah I mean it's, it's safe, it's a dog that people want to be around. That and that was something I a buddy of mine that had an older dog um, I was like and I know he had trained I was like what are the things that like, what's? What is a great dog to you? Look like, and like overwhelming more than the, the backhand signals, the crazy 200 yard marks, that that the bird sails way out, or the, the crazy drive that the dog has. It's like the dog is, has really great obedience and it has good manners. That's right. Yeah, that was like. Uh, and that to me. I was like all right, I'm going to make sure technically I could have this dog ready to retrieve when she's eight months old, 100 per year, one you totally, could people do it?
Speaker 1:all the time, all the time. But for me, I'm like I have a, I have a longer vision than that, and now we don't have a whole ton of bad habits. I get. I just get to teach good habits. That's what I think. That was something. Cornerstone did such a great job as, like, they teach you how to teach good habits and if you follow it the right way, you don't have to follow it exactly how I did sometimes, but you overall, follow the structure of it and sacrifice some of those early things that, like, you want the short-term win right, but you have to look at the long-term vision, right, and that's where, like now, we can go out, we can go train, I can beep the whistle and she comes and sits and heals. That's amazing.
Speaker 2:I think you would really like to see this video that he has. I think she was probably I don't know a couple months old and we were working on the whistle, recall and he just happened to be videoing the first time. She came back to the whistle and she's probably 50 yards away and he does it. She starts coming oh my God, she's actually coming and he flips around on himself and he's like shocked and here she comes.
Speaker 4:It's a really sweet video.
Speaker 2:But it's, I think, kind of going back to what you said. Before we even picked her up on puppy pickup day, we had already made a decision, Because we picked her up in June. We had already made a decision we're not going to hunt her the first season.
Speaker 2:It's so tempting you kind of just want to throw them in the water and make them a water dog and again, some people can do it and it works out great. But I think for us, having made that decision before we even picked her up, took so much stress off because we could just, if we wanted to, spend three and a half weeks on a heel.
Speaker 3:We had the time.
Speaker 2:You know we weren't trying to rush through and ignore bad habits. We were, you know, reinforcing good habits. And now, you know, this season will be her first season. We've taken her on a few teal hunts and even though we haven't seen as many teals we'd like to, you know she's, she's steady, she's in there. The few that fall she's on them and it's. It's so much more rewarding having such as a steady, obedient dog than you know trying to reel her back in and getting frustrated.
Speaker 2:So it's definitely worth that first season sacrifice of just in my opinion, at least for the dog that we had, it was definitely worth it. Yeah, that's awesome.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and it's good to just put in that work, even though it takes more time, and not have to bandage things later. Like y'all are saying, and like you said, the long-term vision is just so crucial to hold on to, and a lot of people sell themselves short because, number one, they may discount themselves and think, well, I couldn't do all that. So you know what, since I'm not sending it to a trainer, it doesn't really matter as much. If my dog can just go get a duck, great, I'll throw rocks or whatever and we'll go get a duck. Yeah, your dog's going to do that. I mean, that's pretty much built in if it's got the drive.
Speaker 1:Exactly.
Speaker 4:But you're selling yourself short when you can do what true guys are doing and just saying, look, I'm going to shoot for something a little bit higher if you aim for something and you fall short, if you have a high goal and you aim for it but you fall short, you're better off than aiming for short and then end up shorter than that Right 100%, or maybe you hit your goal or exceed it. I feel like I find a lot of the members end up exceeding their goals Like they. They jump in. They start here thinking they're going to be here, but over time they end up being a lot further along than they ever thought they would be which is really, really cool to see.
Speaker 4:One thing I want to talk about with you guys is a little bit of a different topic, but we've already talked about this a little bit, and this is something I know a lot of people struggle with. If they've had dogs in the past myself included every trainer I feel like if you've had that, you know what you consider once a lifetime dog. Before you've got the dog you're on now or maybe you just had a really good dog it's very tempting to compare them to your current dog. Have y'all faced any of that and, if so, how did that impact your training?
Speaker 1:I think a good like a good and bad thing was I wasn't involved. I wasn't really involved in the training there. Right, um, I would help. My dad really did the the upkeep on, uh, on our past dog, uh, so I I really it wasn't as bad as like what I needed to expect for a, a first time for me training a first time dog. So I was, I was still green in that area.
Speaker 1:I think what you're talking about is I might miss out on a few things or I might sink, like with Remy, some of the things that she was able to do when we're out hunting. I don't know if Punch can. She definitely won't be able to do that year one, and so managing my expectations in those ways is probably going to be the hardest thing to do, right, right, but I still know, since I trained punch, I know exactly what she can do, I know what, I know what um wins that she's going to be able to get Right. And then down the road I have to put things into perspective. Remy was four years old doing some of the, some of the great stuff. That's pretty good perspective. Down the road, I have to put things into perspective. Remy was four years old, doing some of the great stuff.
Speaker 4:That's pretty good perspective to consider when you really think about it.
Speaker 1:Exactly so you have to take a step back and say what's a long-term vision? I want Punch, at four, five, six years old, to be able to do similar stuff that my other dog was doing, and I have three years to do that. Able to do similar stuff that my other dog was doing, and I have three years to do that. Yeah, and so I have. I have the. If you keep the consistency there and you keep working those little steps, little steps, in three years is going to be 100%. So, um, I think that's really the only thing we might struggle with this year.
Speaker 1:but quote unquote struggle with yeah, yeah, year yeah, but quote unquote struggle with yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Makes sense. Anything for you.
Speaker 2:No, I think you said that really well. Yeah, I think you had made a comment earlier and it kind of goes back into what you're saying.
Speaker 2:is you know, sometimes people can sell themselves short on you know the dream that they have and they think, oh, I can't do that. And I kind of thought that too Initially. You know, you look, we kind of talked about this earlier. You, you, you get cornerstone and you kind of look through all the videos and you see last week, and you see Violet doing awesome stuff and you're like this dog ain't going to do that.
Speaker 3:But everybody can take small steps you know, and that's all it is.
Speaker 2:Um, and so I think anyone that's listening like you you or I was mentally about a year ago you can take small steps and it does take time, but the time is so well worth it.
Speaker 4:That's really cool. I love that. I haven't really thought about it from that perspective, but yeah, just calling it, everybody can take small steps, 100%. It's easy to feel like, oh, I can't have that, but you can have the next step and if you do it, that's just so cool, I love that concept, that and have the next step.
Speaker 4:And if you do it, that's just so cool. I love that concept. That's awesome. What's been y'all's greatest moment together as a couple with this dog thus far? That's a good question. Or greatest maybe in training? It doesn't even have to be training, it can be just any moment with the dog, but maybe training or related or whatever, what have you got?
Speaker 2:I think we might have the same one on this. My mind is blank. I'm like it's all great.
Speaker 1:I think there's two. One it's for the dog and the other is for us. First one for the dog last year, right at the end of our fetch hold release, there's a local lake that we live close to. It's like let's take, punch out. I know I can go shoot three, four, five ducks, nothing crazy. God. Shoot a few birds, let's see where she's at. And no expectations if she'd break, if she didn't, if she didn't know how. At that point we hadn't even gotten to marking a bird right. Um, she just known, throw the bumper, go get it. Did a little bit of fetch hold release with a with a dead bird, so she kind of understood that, not how to hold them, um, but we went out, you should. At first she didn't understand that the birds were coming from out out there, not from me facing us in the blind.
Speaker 2:And we were, we were facing out, obviously, and she's just looking, just looking turn, turn and she's just facing me, like waiting for us to that's so funny.
Speaker 1:But we had a, had a number of ducks, had four, five, six, come land in the decoys, got to shoot, got to shoot our six and went out. She had some great retrieves, some of them. There's one a little bit further out. She didn't see it so I walked her out there and she was able to get it. I tried to get her to. Instead of coming back to me, I was trying to get her to come back and like hand the bird to me. She just swam right past me, right past Melody, and just swam back to place and just went and sat on place.
Speaker 2:She went to place for like probably 30 seconds where I had to walk over there and get it. That's hilarious.
Speaker 4:She just streamlined.
Speaker 2:I'm going to place.
Speaker 1:And so that was like she knew her job.
Speaker 2:That's what she knew at the time you know that's when generalization something might be.
Speaker 1:Really it's a good thing because she was like she only knew go back to place that's all she knows, she didn't know, baby cuck is later, later in those weeks and she was only eight months old at that time, right, yeah? Later in the weeks you do remote sit, throw the bumper, come back heels to get the bumper go back to place. We hadn't gotten to that yet, yeah, so she only understood place bumper back, and so I was like I'll take that, I guess. So that was.
Speaker 2:I would say that was really exciting, I think the rest of the day I spent the rest of the day sending those videos that we took to all my friends. This is great, okay.
Speaker 1:So that was, that was a great win. I would say, um, not one specific moment, but just the overall process, that we've been able to do this together. We've been together for 15, 16 years. There's different challenges and different things. Marriage was a new experience for us three years ago and we slowly got was a new experience for us three years ago and we slowly got. We're able to figure out what exactly does that mean to have a great marriage. And then you go through. Another big step A lot of people take is having kids. We don't have kids yet, Um, but in the next, next big thing, a lot of people get a dog.
Speaker 1:Not everyone trains their dog, um, and especially not everyone trains their dog to our to the level dog, to the level that we're expecting. That's right, but the things that we've been able to learn, especially just like the communication piece between both of us and just understanding how each of us work individually at a deeper level, something that you probably never intended for a cornerstone to- teach somebody but that's so like. You do this together and you get to end up with what a great duck dog.
Speaker 2:And two, I get to have a better relationship with my wife, which makes it even cooler, cool but I think it's cool about it too is like, right before we started doing this, I was worried that. You know, I always thought that a dog needed to have one master.
Speaker 2:And so I was concerned that if we both did the training equally, like we've done, that it would confuse her. But in reality it's. I think it's made her better because she knows to listen to everybody, whether it's me or or just you. Um, I think she was about a year old and we took her, took her to this little beach area on a lake and some kids were throwing a tennis ball for her and there was probably like a six year old little boy and he goes over and tells, tells the kid, tell her to heal, tell her to mind it, and this six year old kid was directing the talk.
Speaker 2:I mean so the fact that she was listening to a child, I just think it's that is from having both of us do it, Um, so I think that was a really cool part too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, wow, great win. Yeah, it was a great win.
Speaker 4:That's awesome. I would say so. Well, what would be? I mean, it's been just an incredible episode. I feel like we've covered so many good nuggets and just it's been amazing to hear y'all's story and even that, like you're right, that is a surprise we You're right, that is a surprise.
Speaker 4:We weren't even thinking about that we were going to show them, but that's so cool. What would be kind of some final thoughts that you'd like to share to maybe people that are listening, maybe in your shoes, maybe a couple that's listening to this that's thinking maybe they just got a house, maybe they're thinking about maybe they got an apartment, whatever they're thinking about getting a dog and thinking about starting this journey, or just anybody in general just starting the dog training journey. What would you share?
Speaker 1:Yeah, definitely For myself. I would just say there's a reason you love duck hunting. There's a reason you love bird hunting. I know most people going down this path are probably pretty serious about going out.
Speaker 1:Love to hunt If it's you like, hanging out with your buddies if you like to hunt, if you like to chase, whatever it's you like hanging out with your buddies if you like the hunt, if you like the chase, whatever, like, whatever it is that you really enjoy. This is like adds such a new level to it's totally different than I've been on both sides. I've had a dog trained, I've trained, I'm now training my own dog is such a next level experience gives you something to do throughout the whole year. You end up having a bond with a dog that you didn't, that you didn't know was possible and that just alone, and not only going and like having that at the home, but also going out and having that on the hunt, is like. It's like having a best friend that unconditionally loves you all the time and it's like all and that's what makes man and like someone that's 18 months, 19 months down the road.
Speaker 1:Now it's something I didn't understand. That that level of love I could have for an animal wow, 18 months ago, and so it's. You won't be able to feel it until you feel it. And all those little steps, all the frustrating days, all the holy crap. I'm not doing the right thing, what's wrong with me, what's wrong with my dog. All those little steps end up being worth it and you end up having a dog that's 10, 12, 13 and sucks when you lose it. Yeah, and it's like that's that's the price of having a good. A good bird dog is. I've experienced it once it sucks, but it's worth it, like every.
Speaker 1:Every piece of it is so worth it yeah, so yeah, absolutely I think you so?
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely. I think you know we talked about the the once in a lifetime dog, and there's so many people who it's. I'm that person that every dog I have is a lifetime dog and obviously we're a little biased Everyone's a little biased their own dog but I think going through the training course is what makes your dog a once in a lifetime dog Cause you can go out and buy a well-bred dog with a good bloodline and just let him rehearse it on the couch all day and their personality is going to flatline, their drive, their work ethic is going to flatline.
Speaker 2:But when you and your husband or your spouse or your family and your friends go out and put so much into the dog, they put back into you and that's what creates that once-in-a-lifetime dog. And so she's only a year and a half old and we'll just be sitting on the couch and we'll just be like is she that once-in-a-lifetime dog? It's so cheesy, but as she's sitting there and again, her head is just right here all the time. She's so physically affectionate, which I've never had in a dog. So I really think, um, you know and for anyone who's listening, whether you choose Cornerstone or a different program, you know, the point is is, yes, they're just animals, but there's something special about, about the dogs. And so you know, definitely take the time and energy to invest, because it's worth it for sure.
Speaker 4:Wow, I mean I don't know if we should say anything else that's, y'all have just crushed it, absolutely amazing. So thank you guys for hopping on again. It was an honor. It's an honor to get to have you here and to get to see your dog in person. So maybe we'll get to see that dog pick up some ducks soon absolutely appreciate you having us josh you bet, thank you thanks for listening to the build from here podcast.
Speaker 3:to learn more about retriever training or our podcast, visit cornerstone guundogacademycom slash podcast.