Build From Here
Build From Here
Building a Community of Gundog Owners with Ken Witt | BFH #065
In this episode of the Build From Here podcast, host Josh Parvin interviews Ken Witt, a Founder's Member of CGA and the creator of Gundog Nation. Ken shares his journey from a rural upbringing in Kentucky to becoming a lawyer, military veteran, and passionate dog trainer. He discusses the importance of mindset in training, the transition to retrievers, and the value of community in dog training. Ken emphasizes the need to preserve hunting heritage and encourage youth involvement in the sport. He also highlights the significance of consistency and patience in training dogs, as well as the therapeutic benefits of working with them.
cornerstone gundog academy online resources to help you train your retriever welcome to the build from here podcast.
Speaker 2:this this week is special, uh, first of all, in a lot of ways. But it's an honor to have cga member ken witt on and a lot of you probably already familiar with him now. I mean his podcast that he has started, gun Dog Nation, has been blowing up just since the beginning. He's got an amazing message, an amazing story and I believe the community that he is building is partly why that thing is blowing up so much, just because it's gathering the right people. But you're going to get to hear on this episode the background, his story, because not only is he starting his own podcast and really beyond that now he's crushing his own podcast but he's also a CGA member and he's been with us for a hot minute, maybe one of the very first members. I'm a founder, I'm a founding member, he's a founding member. So welcome aboard, ken. How are you doing this morning?
Speaker 3:Great, it's a huge honor. And I texted Joss earlier and said hey, this is my first podcast as a guest, so this is a really weird great honor. And you know, even though I've been a member of y'all since the beginning, in 16 or 17, whenever that was, I told Barton on the podcast like, hey, you know, I didn't really think that that was for me, I just joined it because I like Barton and I always drink the Kool-Aid, the Barton Ramsey Kool-Aid, you know, and I've been a follower of him. I tell him it's cult-like. But anyway, then later on I was talking to Barton Years later. I said man, man, I want to be a pro trainer. You're not a pro trainer, I want to, I want to be hardcore trainer. He said, man, you got cornerstone, don't you use it?
Speaker 3:I went well, and that was the beginning. I was like you know, I need to use it. I paid for it. But I will say I got a bargain. You know, y'all, y'all, you knew what I paid for it. Now it was a steal, but that was the reason when it started. But but, I've been all the way through it, got the certificate for it, literally, and I refer people to it all the time. Just got a buddy of mine, I think, who probably joined last week. That's amazing. Yes, we can talk, but I'll let you go. Josh, you know me, I can rattle all day.
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, ken, you're a really interesting gentleman. I would love just for people to get to hear some of your background. I mean, we've known you for a while and every time I get on the phone with you you tell me these crazy stories that are just it's kind of crazy how it all falls together. So you just seem to have this draw to you to get to some really cool situations and things have just worked out in some pretty crazy ways. But where did let's go way back? Where were you born? Where did you grow up? We'll go from there.
Speaker 3:I was born in Laxton, kentucky, but Hyden, kentucky, is my home. My mom went down there because it's a big hospital. We live in southeast Kentucky in the mountains. I'm right next to Harlan and Hazard. I can be in Virginia or Tennessee in probably 45 minutes from my home.
Speaker 3:Very rural background, uh, very isolated. You know, father was musician, my brothers are musicians in Nashville. My grandmother was a pretty well-known organ and piano player in our County Every so I grew up around music and later became a banjo player and I thought you know what? I better have a day job. Bluegrass is not going to pay my bills.
Speaker 3:So I went to straight out of high school at University of Kentucky undergrad, graduated in 91 with a degree in political science, history and education, excuse me. And I went to law school at Northern Kentucky University, graduated in 94, took the bar and practiced law in Kentucky, got a Tennessee license also to probably oh gosh. Well, I was elected county attorney, county prosecutor in Kentucky. Same thing in 98. And I think at the time I may have been the youngest or one of the youngest ever elected in Kentucky, somewhere in that range. And that's what I was told.
Speaker 3:And then the next term I ran. After that term I ran for county judge executive. So I did that one term and when it was over I was like you know I don't know if I really want to start from scratch and build a law practice again and I became a land man in oil and gas and led me to Pennsylvania for Shell Oil for two years. I did three years for Consol Energy, Tennessee and Kentucky East, Kentucky, east, tennessee and then moved to Midland, texas, with Shell in 2012. And I've been here in Midland ever since. Wow, but you know that was my history.
Speaker 2:That's amazing, and you did a stint in the military as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was in the Army Reserve and active. I was a JAG Corps. I went to airborne school so I am a paratrooper and I was getting ready to go to air assault school and tore my bicep tendon so I didn't get to. I got washed out, wow. And then, you know, I was reservist at Fort Campbell. I was activated for desert, for enduring freedom, and, uh, I got out 94. Wow, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I was so as soon as I was elected County judge I think five weeks I was I was deployed but uh, but luckily you know I got to. I've stayed stateside Campbell and I went to Indiana too, but I was a JAG at that time, so non-combat.
Speaker 2:Wow, wow. So that's just crazy, all the different backgrounds. So how did hunting fit into all this? Obviously you grew up kind of in the country a bit. Is that where it all started, or did it come later in life?
Speaker 3:You know it's interesting. So, um, my dad was a hardcore musician so he he'd hunted some. He wasn't a big hunter. My grandpa who lived beside him, he wasn't either, but he'd always worked horses. And what got me into dogs is I think even at the time I lived beside my grandpa he didn't have his own dog, I swear. But people you know, we lived in hiding there. There was no leash laws, no fences, everybody's dogs ran around the street and he would have neighbors dogs doing tricks. It was, and I just thought I was amazed and just, and then I got a dog and he had that dog doing everything and I just was like how do you do that? So fascination. That never changed and then probably got up and I started hunting some.
Speaker 3:I hunted hardcore in high school. So two of my best friends growing up, mark Baker and Craig Sizemore their fathers hunted heavy, so I was with them all the time. So started squirrel hunting and heavy. Mark had coon dogs, walker, and we started coon hunting some. I did with him.
Speaker 3:But we live in the mountains and if you chase a dog that run in deer which is what they did you'd walk for days, you know, literally walk all night trying to find that dog, and back then I don't think we even had a transmitter. You know the old transmitter. So walking straight up, now, if you've ever been in Appalachia that part of Appalachia we don't have valleys like East Tennessee has valleys, we have hollers. So it's straight up, straight down. Wow, you walk that about four or five hours at night and no sleep. I kind of got washed out of coon hunting real fast. I was just boy. This is rough, and if they hadn't ran deer it probably would have been a different ballgame. Wow, probably would have been a different ballgame.
Speaker 3:So later on I think it was my cousin, todd Horton, about like a brother to me and he's like you know, whitman, you love dogs, you love to hunt, why don't you hunt with dogs? And I was like, wow, yeah, why don't I? So I think that's when I got into rabbit dogs, beagles and squirrel dogs. I had some squirrel dogs and I guess too, the only other thing I was into really heavy is I got into Schutzen protection dogs. I had Shepherds, then later Rottweiler from Germany Dogs. I got my dogs from Germany and Hungary, czech, slakia, and then now I have Dobermans, because I just want something a little gender, a little more civilian adaptable dog, right. Right, because the males are they're great, super intelligent, but they're crazy, but they're the best at what they do. But I had an incident with a female Malinois and that's when I got out of the Malinois business, you know, trying to buy a child, and I was like, yeah, yeah, that's when I got out of my business.
Speaker 3:You know, try to buy a child and I was like, yeah, yeah, I better scare you. So, yeah, and I. So I'm in dobermans now and just have two, and I've got retrievers wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. You know, one question I should have asked earlier. It just hit me as I was sitting there thinking about the, you know the, the mountains and the night. Did you ever write any music or um? It just kind of got me thinking. I'm sure, like you're hunting and being out in the country had to have influence on some banjo playing.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think, keith, you're probably better at that than me. For sure, I wrote some my brothers. You know my brother Brandon played the Dixie Chicks. He's one of their videos. You know my brother Jason played with Exile. For years They've played with everybody Jason Aldean, billy Carrington. So I grew up around and my dad played with Les Turner and JP who were founding Exile members since he was in high school. He started playing with Les in high school so I did write some. I've got one song that I almost got recorded. I've got one song that that we almost I almost got recorded. At the time my high school classmate friend was a VP at Sony Records so he got, yeah, he, and he passed away, unfortunately with cancer.
Speaker 3:He's a great guy and died way too young, but he was from my hometown, wow. And he got one of my songs to Show Dog Records. It's called Drunk Dialing.
Speaker 3:I don't want my daughters to hear that, but it's not cute, but I've got four kids and uh, my one daughter really goes church lot. I don't want to hear that song, but it's uh, it was pretty funny and and we almost got it cut, you know and but it just didn't make the cut on an album. It was. That's toby key's record company, wow and wow. So anyway, that's about as famous as I got which is not famous and then I played bluegrass for eight years in a band called north fork that I kind of founded.
Speaker 3:Two of the members, donnie and brad stevens, have been very successful in the gospel charts. Uh, one, brad's a preacher super talented guys. I was probably the weakest link in the band by a long shot. Johnny browning was our guitar player we that. He still plays everywhere. Johnny traveled with Ralph Stanley as a kid so I had, we had, I had talent around me. You know that's amazing, but that was funny. We played a lot of churches, festivals in Eastern Kentucky, virginia, east Tennessee, southern Ohio was kind of our circuit. You know we opened up for Ronda Vinson, we opened up for Skaggs, we opened up for Ralph Stanley at his we got to play the Ralph Stanley Festival. That's probably the big claim to fame. Wow, we got to be with one of the opening bands there.
Speaker 2:So I did that for and I was practicing law and playing the banjo. That's pretty impressive. That's hard work to be law practicing and playing the banjo it was.
Speaker 3:And then we got a bluegrass show. I had a bluegrass rodeo show on WSGS and hazard and it's a hundred thousand watt station. So we had listeners in Southwest Virginia, west Virginia, southern Ohio, east Tennessee and I had a ball doing. I think that's why I got on the podcast. You know, I that was we there's me and two other guys and we just had a ball doing that show. It was one night a week, wow. So yeah, I'm not real good at anything, josh.
Speaker 2:That's why. I keep dabbling trying to find what I'm good at. That's so cool. I mean it really is. I love. You know we're big into music. All of us are, my dad is myself and just love all that. So it's pretty cool to hear those stories and I mean I'll let you look here. Yeah, look at that, oh yeah that's just to scratch the surface.
Speaker 3:Yeah, anyway, that's amazing no, it's good.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're in. I'm in my home studio here now, so, um, it's uh. I mean music impacts everybody. But I think I mean, even when we're going to train, I mean you got to have your your jam session going like you got to get pumped up on the way. Sometimes you've got to have that chill. It depends on what kind of day it's going to be. When we're going to train, if you know you've got to go tackle something big, I've got the chill music on. If I know it's going to be a fun day, I've got that pump music on.
Speaker 3:Josh, it's funny you said that To me that's so important on that one day this week. I've done so many podcasts this week, but the mindset. I was with Ronnie Smith. I was on with Ronnie and Susanna Smith yesterday, smith Kennels, and we were talking about mindset. I said you know, I've had days, josh. I've walked outside and I had so much stress and so much on my head that I thought I better not train right now. I walked back in and had to reset. You know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, you know, yeah, yeah, because your dogs and you know it's way better than me. Your dogs pick up that energy so fast, easy, especially if it's a dog you've had a long time. They know you better than yourself. Yes, that's incredible. Well, let's, let's kind of fast forward a little bit from all that to. Since you're a founding member, you know, you've kind of been with us since the beginning. What was this when you were getting retrievers? What's your story there on the hunting dogs, like the waterfowl hunting dogs?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I got introduced. I should say I got into retrievers first, not so much as a waterfowl guy, because you know in eastern Kentucky there's no flyway. Western Kentucky is excellent duck hunting, I'm told. But I wasn't a duck hunter, I was a hardcore deer hunter, bow hunter yeah, big game, you know all that. But so what got into retrievers is shed hunting. I I'd started shed hunting a lot, loved it, it was good exercise, good way to scout. I owned a pretty nice farm in Kentucky at the time and living in Texas and ended up gosh about 886 acres together up there. Wow, and I loved it. I got into shed hunting. I thought it's great exercise, it's a good way to scout. And I started in that Jeremy Moore community, you know, studying his, his techniques, training my own dogs watch his videos. Met some other, carly Farron, northwood's training. She's up in Wisconsinisconsin, she's a. She's actually the one that introduced me to southern oak. Wow, and she had dogs too. That's how I got into labs really that's amazing.
Speaker 3:So I called bart. Now she gave me his phone number. I called him and this was in 15 and I put a deposit on a dog which in in a year in advance, he had gotten. The dog was named Jet. He bought it back from me and there's a storyline to that. It's in our podcast. But uh, that was the first. And then, before Jet was even conceived, I bought a dog named Pace off of him. That was already started and anyway, that's how I got. And then I just man these dogs. I was getting from Southern Oak and I had a wild rose dog. It was one too, and it was a good dog, a really good shed hunting dog. So I trained and trained and then posted an Instagram picture and ended up somebody offered me some really crazy money for one of my dogs that was a shed hunter. Wow.
Speaker 1:And I was like heck, I want to train another one and I sold her to Wisconsin.
Speaker 3:She went to Wisconsin, and so then I had Pace, who was fully trained to do duck hunting, and I thought, you know, I need to start doing this. And so I kind of got in. I know I'm still not a big waterfowl hunter, I'm more upland, but I think I got into it because of the dogs more than I did the love of duck hunting. That makes sense. I know that sounds I wouldn't say that in Louisiana or Arkansas, but you know. But that's really what got me into it, into that style of hunting was, and I thought this, this, this training is so complex. You know, like like protection dog training is, is, is. It's not easy either.
Speaker 3:But advanced retriever training, like you have in your in a CGA course, that stuff takes a lot of time, a lot of work and to you know, if someone wants to go all the way through your course, they're going to have a finished, fully finished dog and that's an accomplishment of big proportions. Wow. And I feel so bad that all these years I had that tool, the CGA tool, had it on my phone and didn't utilize it until you know, probably a year ago or two, that I really, really deeply utilized it. Wow, and you know you're going to laugh. But my doberman, who's now doing protection work, starting, he's going to try to title him next year. I started him out doing everything that we do in CGA. He knows how to place board. He knows how to hand signals to the place board, you know, and I haven't casted him yet. But well, yeah, I can cast him backwards to the back place board. That's amazing, but it's the same concept, why not?
Speaker 3:You know, Right, right, it's obedience. There's the same principles. So people can get your course and do the short course I guess you got a better name for that but they can get that course and train any dog for great obedience, great healing, you know.
Speaker 2:That's really cool. So for you it was the love of the dogs. Obviously you're pretty passionate about the dogs that's part of your heritage and seeing them work. What was it like? So you saw the Labradors and I guess you kind of were just into that concept, maybe learned about the British stuff, taught the Barton and saw how they're doing all those crazy hand signals and no e-callers and all this and that that's big, the big part of the attraction. How, how has your journey been thus far Like, which is interesting. You said you know you didn't really utilize it right away, which is, you know, one of the beautiful things. Say you know when you buy, buy it, you've got lifetime access, it's there for, uh, you when you need it. And you started kind of diving in how, how has it been since you?
Speaker 3:you dove in and went through the process oh gosh, it's, it's, it's turned everything around before. I was just thinking, right before bart and I actually had gone to a robert milner seminar in miss his seminar, mississippi. He had an English gentleman there and so I went that route and then got over into Barton's world with Southern Oak and at the time I was teaching shed hunting and blood tracking on these game ranches in here in Texas with labs and they were excellent and I competed in the Texas blood track association with a lab. That's a funny story, a really funny story. I took a female 10 month old pup there and won an amateur against it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but it was all she looked like she weighed 30 pounds.
Speaker 3:You know a little, she was a pup and so. But you know I really love the British dogs. I guess I was never exposed heavily to American dogs or knew the differences at the time, other than what I learned. But anyway, getting over back to the question, um, I was trying to think I guess it was about early last year that I really got deep into the videos and then this year, you know, I made it a point to finish it all the way completely. And what's crazy, what I love about Cornerstone, is that I've got four, three puppies.
Speaker 3:Now that I'm working and I'm going through, even though I've been through all this stuff, I still pull it up each day, yeah, and look, because you know there's things I'll forget and it's right on my phone and I would watch it when I'm driving. You know, have it on my dashboard and just have it play in the videos, Because I know, hey, I'm at this stage with the pups. I don't go through this again. It's amazing. You know, if I was paying a pro trainer, I have to go back and take it to a trainer and there's nothing. I'm not knocking pro trainers, but that saved me lots and lots of money. Lots of money Cause any trainers, nine, 50, a thousand a month, some of them's 1300 a month, to board and train, and well, you know, and that's fine, if that's what you want to do, it's 100%, reasonable, too reasonable too, I mean, if I was doing it.
Speaker 2:100, I mean you, you don't want to, yeah, cheap out on the trainer. If you're going to go that route, right, you want your dog to get the best that it deserves and and make sure you're paying someone enough to where it's. You know they're. They've got that extra motivation, uh, to get out there and do it. It's.
Speaker 3:It's important to do that if you're going that route it is, you know, and you and I've talked about this and. But what I like about the train it yourself, that cornerstone does you're, it's a do-it-yourself method. 100 and uh, matter of fact, I even called bart one time about getting a dog worked on some training and he's like man you got, you know he's again. He's referred me back to Cornerstone. Why go spend that money? So he's saving, he's cutting himself off for making money by just going Instead of using him and paying him a monthly. You got Cornerstone and he knew I had the ability and I was like you know, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 3:But my point is the bond that you build train your own dog. You'll never substitute that. That's true, you know, know, and that's what we talked about. I talked about ronnie smith yesterday, smith kennels, and they do britneys and pointers and and they're trainers, they're pro trainers. But they even tell you the same thing. I mean, yeah, you know, a pro trainer has your best interest at heart, like barton, when they tell you, hey, you can use train it yourself. And there's no, you'll never, ever, there's no substitute for the bond you build with that pup, that dog, because it you know, you know how it is, it's a team.
Speaker 2:It's really. It's really hard to you know to to put that into words, because it is that connection you get and also just the experience you get for yourself. That's one thing I kind of want to talk about with you as well, because you're a student in the game, right? You love? Yes, sir, right you love. Clearly, you're kind of into all aspects of any type of gun, dogs, hunting dogs and all that.
Speaker 2:So how have you, as you've gone through the course and that's what a lot of people you know, what I would love for a lot of people to see is, like you know, cornerstone is really a systems, procedures, a process, like we built, a process that just works right. It's like you get that consistent result because it is a systemized process, but, more so than anything, the trainer, the person watching the videos this is you and this is where I'd love to get some of your takes, since you're such a student in the game. How do you feel like you've grown as you let's just put the dog aside for a second and just talk specifically about the individual as you've gone through, watched the videos and studied what is any eye-opening moments for you so far?
Speaker 3:What I've loved about it, josh, is the troubleshooting I've learned when I hit a snag, and what I love about what you guys did. I've told people this me and your dad had this conversation. You all used a dog, through the entire process, from puppy to the same dog, and when I watched that pup, I told you dad, I was like, oh my god, I want to kill that dog two or three times, you know, I mean, I was like that dog, it's insane and I know what it is. It's that high drive. Yeah, you know, crazy, intelligent high drive, which, what's funny, is, that's the dogs I want. Now, you know, used to, I didn't. I wanted a lazy dog, you know, but that's not dogs I want. Now, you know, used to, I didn't. I wanted a lazy dog, you know, but that's not what I want. When I hunt, when I tailgate drops, I want insanity, you know, managed insanity.
Speaker 2:That's what I want.
Speaker 3:That's a good, good way to put it. Yeah, and so when I saw you working, violet, I thought that's managed, insanity that dog's got. And I, and I actually was thinking, man, as it went on and progressed, I thought, man, I want that dog. He sent me that dog, you know. But so for the listeners, josh could have used a much easier kind of more trainable dog that didn't mess up. And what else he could have done. He's good at video. He could have edited that stuff out.
Speaker 3:There's stuff I was like man, I can't believe Josh didn't edit that out. But you know what? Then I realized this is genius. He's showing what goes wrong in training with every normal guy and gal that trains. And it's not this perfect world and your dog's not going to do everything perfect. And every day that pup who looked like a rock star, monday to Wednesday, on Thursday she goes off and runs out in the weeds, you know, in the weeds, a hundred yards away, and she's gone. I mean gone, and that's happens. That's what real dog training is, and learning how and then watching how you receive her. Like. You know, when I was young and full of dogs and a dog ran off, he'd come back and I'd scold it. Well, what did that do? It's never going to come back to me again, cause it's going to get its butt whipped, or it's going to get screamed at.
Speaker 3:So watching how you handle that, then I think, yeah, that's what you do. So the troubleshooting to me in times of and you almost troubleshoot every day, that's right.
Speaker 2:That's what I love.
Speaker 3:I loved watching the video and seeing how you react, and you know because I've got a dog doing the same thing sometimes, or more maybe more so that's what I loved about it, and I love the fact that you all made it raw, unedited, basically in that respect, and it's real and that makes it authentic, and that's it made me buy into the system even more. That's real and that makes it authentic. It made me buy into the system even more. That's great. You know, you could have just showed everything perfect every day. You could have edited out all the mistakes, but what's that teaching us? Right? It's not realistic.
Speaker 2:And that's so true, like when you go out on the journey and I think a lot of people listening to this can hopefully relate to that, even from your perspective, right, you know, so often out there, everybody's presenting themselves in the very best light, because that's just human nature. We want to be, you know, respected, liked, valued. We want to be seen as we know what we're doing, but inwardly, nobody really always feels that way and that the fact is like, hey, inwardly, like some, sometimes there's this imposter syndrome. Let's talk about that for a second too, because, as a first time person to train a dog and I'm just generally talking now, but you can go back on any of your experience, whether it was the beagles or whatever when you're when you got that first dog and you're working it for the first time and you see all these other people like doing all these big, amazing things, it can really feel like you almost don't feel like you're part of it, like you should belong, but in reality nobody, I think, really realizes.
Speaker 2:Or I would just say and we mentioned this on our podcast, the one that you had me on you know, you, you can feel that way and that's okay, but the truth is you got to be confident in yourself. The one place you just don't want to be is the place where you think you've got it all figured out. That's the dangerous place. But most people, I think, can really relate to that imposter syndrome. Have you ever felt that you've had that as you've been training dogs and, if so, kind of talk me through just how you were able to navigate some of that?
Speaker 3:Yeah, you know like I got to. Of all the years I've been a CGA member, I got to go to my first retreat this year in April with y'all in Alabama and I show up with probably the youngest dog puppy there and I've really not worked her that much she had. No, it was just basic, basic, basic, you know, simple obedience stuff. But she'd never been in water and I'm watching all these other people I was like, oh man, I got a long way to go. I got a long way to go, and so I felt so kind of intimidated but everybody there was so encouraging that that didn't last long. You know, that feeling didn't last. And then, you know, we did stuff with her. She did so many things that she'd never ever been exposed to. One was water, one was water retrieve, and then we, you know gunfire. We got her induced to gunfire and she just nailed it. And you know I'm walking around around there my chest stuck out like a proud dad, you know, and uh, so I guess in that respect I didn't really have the imposter syndrome so much as intimidation. Wow, that makes sense, yeah, yeah, and knowing I've got the ability to get my dog to that point, but I just thinking how much work. I got a long, long road to get there.
Speaker 3:Now, that's the thing. If you're going to commit to this, it's not all roses, it's work, it's patience, persistence, consistency. I mean, you preach all this stuff. I listen to your sermons, every video, you know it's uh, yeah, it's it's. You just got to know that, going into it and just take your. Take it day by day. I think that's my best advice. If somebody's going through CGA, it's just take it one day at a time. Sometimes it's not good to go look at, these dogs are doing all this stuff. Cause you're like you know what I mean Cause you want to be there.
Speaker 3:But you don't want to jump steps to get there, because then you're ruining the foundation and that's why, your course, you call it the best word build from here. It's building a house. So you know, I know I want my dog to do what the I want my dog doing blind retrieves with hand signals and but my dog's learning how to get on, play sport, you know, so I got, and I just I can't. That's my goal, but I want to look at today and what I do the next day and the next day. That's right and, and so I have to like repeat that bill from here in my head when I'm training puppies that's right, it's.
Speaker 2:It really is putting one foot in front of the other and we talked about that on a recent podcast, in fact. Um, the tip that's going out this week actually talks about that that. Hey, you know, everybody can take that next step. It's literally just you got to put the next foot in front of the other, because if you're thinking too far ahead but you're comparing where you're at now and you're starting to feel bad about that, that's a problem Because that impacts the, the mental aspect, that impacts how you train.
Speaker 2:So it really is kind of a trainer mental game. You've got to be on your your. Your beliefs got to be right. Once you get that belief right, that can help you push through any of the areas that can be challenging. And also one thing we don't talk about and I haven't actually talked about this, so I really would love to kind of bring this up is it's okay to actually stop and smell the roses too and enjoy where you're at. There's going to be times, once your dog's trained, you're going to look back and you're going to kind of think back. You know I miss when I was facing those challenges, because I learned so much during that time.
Speaker 3:You're right. You know I want to say something about your emails. So you know, when you go to church and you hear a sermon, you went oh my God, this sermon's for me. Then I go again next to them like, oh my gosh, the Lord's speaking to me, this sermon's for me. Man, you know he's talking to me Every time I open your email list and you've got some problem solving about a pup. I went, that's meant for me. I'm having that right now. So I feel like every time I see one of y'all's weekly emails, I'm like, well, heck, he's reading my mind. I feel like I'm in church.
Speaker 2:That's funny, that's so funny, but yeah.
Speaker 3:But go ahead. I digress from your question, but it hit me because the last email you posted, I thought, wow, I need to read that right now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, let's talk maybe a little bit about that too, because some of that you've trained lots of dogs and is there, you kind of resonate with that, like looking back, oh man, you know. And sometimes, like we also forget, like you know, like you get a dog that's trained, you forget the puppy stage. Oh yeah, I'm going to get another puppy, it's going to be so fun, you know. And then you forget about the barking and the potty accidents and all that.
Speaker 3:Oh, I don't know what possessed me to have three pups right now. Actually, I'm almost ashamed to tell you, I have three retrievers and a Doberman puppy. All puppies, oh man, all puppies.
Speaker 2:Oh man.
Speaker 3:The Doberman the new Doberman is the youngest female and I'll do four sessions back, one each session, and I'll go out and do it again. And man, when I come inside, I come inside my brain's fried. I feel like I'm out of practice law and I just did a trial. I just come in and just, but I love it because I've got these dogs that are crazy wild and then within a week they're doing every little thing I want. That's amazing, this is awesome. So that's why I do it.
Speaker 3:I don't ever advise to do over one, you know, but I have, and it's just the way the things lined up. I was able to get some exceptional breedings bloodlines that came available and it's like a couple of them were actually once in a lifetime kind of things that happened. So I was like, yeah, I better, I want to. I know this is a perfect breeding, it's, it's what I've been looking for, you know. That's that's why. But yeah, yeah, it's uh, I don't know, I mean I I don't know what else to say about that, but that's awesome. But I love to watch puppy development. It's, yeah, it's something because they're so raw it's like a.
Speaker 3:It's like molding clay. You know, like a potter, you've got a lump of clay that looks like a blob and you're just molding it every day to to your finished product and there's no, there's no satisfaction like finishing cornerstone and having a dog finished that you finished. I don't think there's any substitute for that now. Or does that make me more better? You know a better trainer than some pro trainer who works with like five dogs a day, seven days a week, five different personalities.
Speaker 2:No, I'll never have that kind of experience and exposure, but I still learn a whole lot, you know right and you that bond which is irreplaceable, and it's that and you and that dog have that bond, and then it's those special memories that you get to share, that are you just can't replace it. It's, yeah, you can almost measure your life by dogs If you look back and you can go through your seasons of life. You know, hey, I had this dog when I was a kid or I had this dog when, you know, when I was first married or whatever, and it's, it really is kind of crazy. You can look, look at your life and remember the different dogs and that helps you kind of remember the different seasons of life. It is.
Speaker 3:You know we talked about me and you and your dad. You know, when I was forming this podcast that you know we were trying to think about. You know what do I want about? What messages do I want to put out there? And it was such a good session to do all that. It was several sessions, but to me, one of them is I want everybody to feel that they belong to a community of guide dog owners and not just retrievers. I know retrievers is the biggie in the industry, but everybody, because you, you know you learn Dog training is dog training. Yeah, when you get into specialized training, like treeing or versus casting for hand signals, it's different. But all that foundation works the same and I had this talk with coon, guess you know I want.
Speaker 3:But the message that we wanted also is for people to feel comfortable, to have a place they can come and talk about it, just like CGA has. Y'all have weekly night. You know call-ins and everybody gets to talk about and I love that. I mean everybody says, hey, my dog's doing this, can I get some advice? And you don't feel like you're an idiot, because no one makes you feel that way. You know they want to help you, and that's what I want. I want to take what you guys are doing and broaden it to the all breeds and honey. But no, I don't know, john, if that answered your question.
Speaker 2:Well, you know, I like what you're talking about there, just the good community too. Because, too, Because a lot of people do try to make people I don't know what's up with that. You just want to put people down, make them feel bad. Really, I think it has more to do with them trying to make themselves feel better about themselves, but it doesn't really work in the long run. There's no greater feeling than to help other people without putting them down right, Because there's no reason to. We've all been there. We've all been there. We've all been through those challenges and you know we'll all face challenges.
Speaker 2:So, instead of you know, dogging somebody, it's like hey, look, that just the simple hey, I understand. Like, hey, look, I get it. You know, hey, my dog was is crying. You know when, when the person's in an apartment with their puppy and their neighbors are getting upset because it's been about two weeks and it's still crying, Dude, we are getting upset because it's been about two weeks and it's still crying. Like, dude, we get it. That's hard and unfortunately there's not like a simple solution to that other than like, if you can just like, hold on till the storm's over like you're gonna make it you know, you just gotta hold on a little bit it's a.
Speaker 3:You know that's the toughest part. Uh, is that that crying in the crate? Yeah they'll quit. And then you know, like you guys teach how to handle that. There's no off switch solution, but it's the way to handle it. You know, you don't. You don't go and grab them while they're crying, then that reinforces the cry.
Speaker 2:Right. Right, it's always about the root. If we can solve the root, we solve the problem together. There's no medicating it. If we solve the root, there's 100% the best way to fix it.
Speaker 2:But I do want to talk about one thing, and then I would like to kind of talk a little bit about gun dog nation a little bit and, and maybe you know, just share with everybody some of your, your passion. But we kind of talked earlier about the early phase in your training, all your dogs using cornerstone, especially in the foundation, even your dogs that are not going to be gun dogs. But one thing I kind of wanted to talk about is we, we also hit on the, the fact that, like when you're training, like we all want to get to that finish stage, we all want to have this great dog. But you have as a trainer and I want to focus more on the individual person that's doing the training right now than necessarily the dog. But there's lessons that you have to learn as a trainer during that period as well.
Speaker 2:If you don't learn them, the big dog stuff becomes more of a challenge later and it's like simple stuff, like learning to read your dog, learning to communicate with your dog and without being in a hurry. Right, because communication is everything. If you want to be able to do two 300 yard blind retrieves but you can't communicate with your dog at heel, you might as well kiss that goodbye. Yeah, you might get a 200-yard blind, but if you want consistency in your dog training, you got to get all these lessons right here. This is kind of a hard question maybe to ask you, but I'm going to ask it anyways. What has been one of the biggest lessons you've learned as a trainer in that phase, whether it's the early obedience or all the way through the fetch phase of training? Right, because that's all the foundation, that's what is the building blocks of a good gundog. Is there any lesson that stands out to you, whether it's reading a dog or whether it is delaying your response just to observe your dog? Is there anything else that may stand out to you?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know I took Maverick, my older lab, to a club and Maverick's a rock star in my opinion. He's a Southern Oak dog and he's the one I've got in South Dakota right now, but anyway, he was going to go out. They had a dummy from a launcher go and hit the water, something that he'd done a million times. He takes off and it's like he didn't mark it, it just froze, got down in the water, it went into some reeds, marsh marsh, at a pond and and I was sitting there going. You know what is wrong with my dog?
Speaker 1:what the world is he lost it.
Speaker 3:The other guy in the club, who's a very experienced guy, and he's like again, this he's never, he's never been here before. He didn't know these dogs and and I was like it's like he's lost all the training he's ever had, wow. And then you know, they was like here's why. And explained it to me. And then, right before we left, I said guys, you ought to let me carry the running one more time. It had been an hour because there was a lot of people there. We did the same exact launch, same place. He nailed it Wow, and it was just that it was new surroundings and that's common sense, right? I mean you should know that.
Speaker 3:But see, maverick's trained in so many different places. Why here? Why now? Why has my dog just lost everything he's ever learned? Is that what happened to my dog? And that's stuff, that Cornerstone that you have those days and you just got to learn to observe your, your dog, figure out what in the world is going on in his head and then understand it. And I learned all that from cornerstone, even though it had never happened to me, right, public right, if that happened to me on the training grounds and I could have just processed, but I was worrying about everybody else. Like yo, this ain't my dog, you know.
Speaker 3:But you know, it's like, it's like your son that you know, it's like, it's like your son that performs badly at a ball game you're like you know. So, um, yeah, I mean that that was one thing I thought you know I've had. I know this. Why am I even doubting him? Yeah, yeah and uh. But when he went back at the end, had the validation and he did exactly he went straight line through the marsh into the water. Wow, just like that, came back in like a rocket.
Speaker 3:That's my dog you know, so that's going to happen and you know you got to realize I've not been to a lot of testing stuff yet. I'm new at that part of it. That's what I'm doing now. Right. So now I know, you know, I know what to expect, but you know I should know that already, because you guys teach that.
Speaker 2:Well, sometimes you got to learn it in life. Yeah, we teach it, but sometimes the message is there. You just got to go through the fire to see that the message is real right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that's why you know I think there's no substitute for getting out tests and hunting with your dog and cause you can train all day Right and you can nail it in training. It's just like when I got in law, got out of law school, I'll never forget, somebody walked out. I was working with another attorney. They want to do a divorce case. Well, I'd studied all that Heck, I just took the bar. I knew family law but I didn't know how to file a. I don't know how to file a divorce.
Speaker 1:Can you pull a file and?
Speaker 3:show me. So they pulled a file of a really good attorney and I just photocopied everything. Well, I reinvented the wheel. Right, that's right, that's right. But my point is you can learn and learn all this practical theory, but you've got to get out and practice it. And even though you know all this, you've studied all this you're the cornerstone Magna Cum Laude graduate, unless you get out in the field and in real life situations. That's the finishing touch that you need after the class. That's right.
Speaker 2:After school. That's really good. That's a great point. I love that. It's the truth. You just got to go put it into practice, right, and you got to be like you said. You got to be unashamed, you got to be willing to put in that work and even if you feel uneasy about it, just do it and you'll see it unfold. You'll see it work out.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and even, like I said, maverick's a rock star. I mean he's great, he's great and I was like and he is, but still he can go somewhere in that scenario and just everything's lost and you're not going to do that, you're never going to figure that out until you do it.
Speaker 2:Wow, that's amazing. Well, before we kind of wrap up and then we'll ask the final question that we ask everyone, I would like to just let you share a little bit about gundog nation. Uh, you know, I remember you calling me about this idea and I was like I think this is an amazing idea, I think you need to do it. And uh, you were, you were well on the way and uh, now you're really well on the way Cause it's actually in action and it's happening, uh, like crazy. I think we should have another episode of that release and, as we're recording this one, so pretty stoked about that, yeah, when, where did the idea of gun dog nation come from? And you know, what are you hoping to to be able to to share with people and what are you hoping to be able to help people accomplish?
Speaker 3:So I listened to a lots of podcasts Cornerstone, the Lab, chris Rudd. I've been listening to lots and lots of podcasts and I'm a sponge. I read everything. I get my hands on dog-related videos, training seminars and I wanted to do something. I thought, man, I would love this. I don't have a lot of talent in this life, but I love to talk dogs with people and I'll get on the phone and talk to somebody in Wisconsin or Montana or wherever South Dakota about dogs and talk for two hours and it might not be labs, it might be whatever. You know my protection dogs. So I thought you know how could I use that passion and do something that's different but still is a benefit to people? And so the name hit me just driving down the road and the nation part of the Gun Dog Nation came, because I'm a University of Kentucky grad. We're the big blue nation, right. So that's right. I thought you know that's what I want. I want I want people to feel. I thought you know that's what I want, I want people to feel.
Speaker 3:And then you guys Keith and Josh Parvin did so much for me, bringing this together into a concise ideal because my mind works in quite crazy and weird places and I'm all over the place, but you all really owe everything to you for getting it toned in and creating a theme that's real, that I really want to have, not just a fake theme that you, we, write down. It's just lip service, right? I want to believe what, what the theme is. So the theme is we want to build a community of people who can come together, feel confident and not worry about. You know, if they got questions, they want to learn about dogs. You'll learn about training. This is a place for everybody to come to and the website's up at. You know it'll be more, so we'll have people join, email letters and stuff and hopefully by next week that'll be ready to go.
Speaker 2:Amazing.
Speaker 3:And we can have email list. People can chat, have forums and talk about stuff, feel comfortable, feel like they belong to a community. But also and I'm going to touch on this I've got a guest coming on from Raglan Gun Dogs. He's a dentist up in Illinois. We're going to talk a little bit about the politics and I try not to do that, but let me tell you, you know, you go to England, you go overseas. There's no e-collars.
Speaker 3:I was told that a certain friend of ours once filmed a trial, had videos and those got requested to come down quickly because of the animal rights movements in these countries. We know that these countries are much more liberal in Europe than we are here. So I want to preserve our heritage. Gun dog hunting is a tradition that goes back centuries and it's it's a way of life, it's a passion, so, and that goes from coon hunters to duck hunters to whatever, any way that you hunt, game with a dog, and we need to be aware we need to come together as a group. You know, like you know, that is I had this.
Speaker 3:My buddy friend of mine's son was the 2024 coon dog champion. We were like you know, I remember back home you were either red bone guy or black and tan guy, or walker guy or blue tick guy and everything else was trash, right, you know? And and you know like it's like. Well, heck, I've got my own biases and retrievers. You know, I, I don't want a silver lab, I mean, and I actually am a purist I like yellow and black. I mean, people got chocolate labs and they're some of them are rock stars, but I'm a purist, you know, that's just me, I'm old, whatever. So you know, I want to put all that aside and one of the actually it's something I told bart. I stole an idea from him too. He's always wanting to build bridges and try to.
Speaker 3:You know, we people argue about what kind of camo you wear and stuff. That's foolish. Very true, we need to come together. That's right. As dog, as gun dog owners and all breeds, we need to come together and and be a group, be a community and preserve our heritage and be aware of social policies that might take that away. Um, you know we use guns and you know, in events, uh, we use birds, animals, dead birds, and events, and if you think that can't be taken away with a stroke of legislature, you're wrong. So, being aware of that stuff and sticking together. Also, I want to educate gundog owners about nutrition. I try to mention nutrition to health every podcast. I try to podcast, I try to, and also I'm going to have a Texas A&M vet about this new uh kind of disease.
Speaker 3:It's plaguing all, all dogs any, all breeds but it's from a snail and it's waterborne, yeah. So I can't tell you more about it, cause I'm not trying to be secretive, I just don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But I had. It was on the phone for an hour this morning, so I'm going to have that person. I want to educate people about taking care of their dogs all breeds and training. So what I enjoy about Good Dog Nation is I have people like you, like Chris Rudd, like Barton Ramsey, like Ronnie Smith, who have more experience in their fingernail than my whole body about dogs and training and nutrition and working dogs. So every podcast, I'm a student, I'm listening to man. Wow, I'm writing this down. I listen to the podcast several times because they've said a lot of stuff that I want to know as a trainer and as an owner. So I feel so lucky that I'm on here listening to these pros, these experts with all this experience. But, sher, I also have the passion I have, so that's kind of what my dog nation is and I try to you know, I want that to be contagious.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, to me it is. I mean, if anybody's listening to that part right there, to me it really stands out to you. I love what you're talking about Everybody joining together and just protecting the heritage right, because we it really stands out to you. I love what you're talking about everybody joining together and just protecting the heritage right, because we need to be able to pass this down to the generations. You know, it's something that has impacted my life. I think anybody listening to this it's impacted their lives and you know, we'd be crazy to think that we shouldn't have this for our kids and their kids and then their kids and so on, so that they can have these experiences, because it really you learn a lot of life lessons in the outdoors. It makes you a better human, it makes you a better person, because you just learn about life and we definitely got to preserve that, josh, you just brought up a point that I skipped.
Speaker 3:It's very important. One of the other points of Gundog Nation is to encourage youth to get involved. Yeah, I mean, the heritage dies without that, right. Right, and you know I try to talk about that each podcast. We don't always get to. I try to make it a point. But you know, what better than a child to be out there, boy or girl, learn the responsibility of taking care of an animal, competing with that animal, building a bond with that animal? That's right. And you know, honestly, you know we use the term therapy dogs, but just working with dogs is therapy 100%. You know, I mean, my dog aren't therapy dogs, but I can go out there with my dogs and get rid of lost stress, even if I'm training them.
Speaker 2:You know, and it's stressful to train sometimes. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But it's also good, you know, I don't know, trained sometimes, yeah, yeah, but it's also good, you know it. I don't know, I don't know how to explain. I mean, dogs are therapy. Uh, I think from practicing law for years and then divorce, work stuff. But I'd rather fool with dogs, you know? Oh, yeah, ten to one oh yeah, well, that's amazing.
Speaker 2:Well, thanks for sharing that and they can really just find you. I mean, you're, you're everywhere.
Speaker 2:Now you're not gonna have a hard time, you're going to have a hard time finding them. Gun Dog Nation your website will be up Probably. This episode should air next week. So, honestly, by the time someone's listening to this, hopefully your website will be close to being up, maybe already up. We got social media. Just Gun Dog Nation. There's a group, there's a Facebook group you can be part of. Uh, there's a group, there's a Facebook group you can be part of that. Things already exploded. We started it and I looked at it the next day. I was like there's already 200 people in here. I was like this is crazy, it's just just blowing up.
Speaker 3:So yeah, thank you for that and and so and, just so you know the the website will, and I think she's about got it finished Amazing. You all have helped me in that too. So much, but yeah, yeah, we have an Instagram page. You know I'm a lot older than Josh, so I still need social media expertise. My boys are, you know, all my kids fool with it, but my youngest son is probably the most you know savvy. My oldest son just now got a Facebook and he's, you know, he's 21 years old. I like that. I'm glad my son, justin, he just got a Facebook page.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So my youngest son, gage he's the one in the UK and well, justin, in college too. They're both in college, but yeah. So, but you know, yeah, I mean I love it, I feel it's a privilege to me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, that's amazing and if you're listening to this, go check it out. He's already got some amazing episodes up and there's more to come, and the roster you've got coming up is just amazing, so you're going to want to listen to the episodes. It's really cool, pretty stoked about it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, I get so excited each time I have a new one, you know, and they're all. It's all different. I don't have anybody that's got on there and said the same thing as the last person. That's what I'm trying to do.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Well, this episode has been a pleasure. It's been a pleasure to have you on, amazing, to have you as the first, your first time being a guest, which is incredible. What would be just some final words? I love to ask this to everybody, just because one of the things, like you said, we always try to, we want to pass down things that we learn, we want to help other people, right, what would be some way that you know, if someone you were talking to somebody right now, just having a conversation with somebody that was brand new to this, what would just be like one thing you would encourage them to do or to think about, or just, uh, you just one piece of advice you would share, like if you were shaking hands, like hey, we got to go this event's over, we'll see you next time. What would be some final words that you would share to someone?
Speaker 3:I guess, training being my primary thing, uh, when you're training a dog, just uh, be consistent, patient. I'm not a patient person, naturally, so that takes work. And uh, and just read your dog, read that pup, try to figure out why it's not doing what you want. And it probably is, that it doesn't understand what the command is. I think that's the most basic, fundamental thing in training. That sounds easy, but it's not always easy to do that.
Speaker 2:That's right, that's amazing. Well, ken, thank you for hopping on. It's been a pleasure, it's an honor to have you on and I'm excited to see you continue to help preserve heritage and grow a community of people that can just connect and really enjoy their gundogs.
Speaker 3:I love it. Thank you so much. It's been a great honor being on here. This is my first guest podcast appearance and I feel very fortunate that you asked me to.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the Build From here podcast. To learn more about retriever training or our podcast, visit cornerstonegundogacademycom slash podcast.