Build From Here
Build From Here
How Training a Boykin Spaniel Brought Us Closer | James Rousse
BFH #067: Ever wondered if you could train your own hunting retriever without professional help? James Rousse and his wife faced that question head-on when they brought home their Boykin Spaniel puppy, Benelli. What followed was a journey of patience, perseverance, and unexpected life lessons that transformed both dog and handlers.
Growing up in the hunting culture of Louisiana, James always admired the incredible work of retrievers in the field. When the opportunity arose to get a dog of his own, he chose the compact yet energetic Boykin Spaniel breed and committed to training him personally using Cornerstone Gundog Academy's Complete Retriever course. Despite having no previous retriever training experience, James and his wife tackled each lesson as a team, videoing sessions to identify areas for improvement and holding each other accountable.
The challenges were substantial – sweltering Louisiana heat that required creative solutions like training tents with fans, the need to modify standard hand signals for a smaller dog, and James's natural impatience being tested at every turn. Yet through consistency and focus on finding ways for their dog to win, they gradually built an incredible bond with Benelli. Their efforts culminated in a remarkable first hunting experience, where their young dog completed a challenging blind retrieve in foggy conditions that seemed impossible for a novice.
Beyond the hunting skills, James shares how the training process became a lifeline during personal struggles, providing structure and purpose when he and his wife faced two miscarriages. Now expecting their first child, they've witnessed how Benelli has become increasingly protective of his pregnant "mom." James's perspective on dog training transcends mere obedience – it becomes a mirror reflecting our own character, teaching us patience, resilience, and emotional intelligence in ways we never expected.
Ready to transform your relationship with your retriever? Visit cornerstonegundogacademy.com to learn how you can build an exceptional bond through structured training that brings out the best in both you and your dog.
Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy Online resources to help you train your retriever.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the Built From here podcast. On this episode, I'm so excited to be introducing you to CGA member James Roos, and James is an incredible member who has put a ton of work in with his dog, completed the full course, 52 plus, which is the complete retriever course, and really is just passionate about his dog, and so I'm really excited to hear his story. Let you hear his story and celebrate his success and win along the way. So, without further ado, welcome James. How are you?
Speaker 3:I'm doing well, man. Thanks for having me Excited to get this thing started. I know we talked about it in the past and now we're finally able to get the ball moving, so definitely excited to be here.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me, man, so glad you're here. And man, it's just again. It's an honor to be anytime we get to celebrate members. And for those that are unfamiliar with Cornerstone, while we're so passionate about our members, is our members really? They want to have a great waterfowl retriever, they want to have a great hunting dog, but also a great family companion.
Speaker 2:And if you've ever tried to train your own retriever, then you've probably been overwhelmed. Because we all have right, there's a lot of information out there, and if you ask for advice, it leaves you feeling oftentimes more frustrated than when you before you ask the question. You might have been frustrated before, but after you ask the questions you get frustrated, right, because there's too many conflicting opinions. And so that's why I get so passionate about Cornerstone members is they cut through that confusion by trusting Cornerstone and following the courses. But not only that. What I get really passionate about is they face every challenge with a smile, right, because dog training is not this straight road of easy success. This is something that requires patience, endurance, dedication and consistency, and it takes a special person to exhibit those traits. And so anytime we get to have someone on like that that's exhibited those traits, it just gets me excited because that makes it worth it for us at the end.
Speaker 2:You know I was telling you, james, before before, when we were on the call. Like you know, I love training my dogs and I get a lot of value and reward out of that for myself being able to say I did that. But I get even more excited when someone like you has successfully trained their dog using the labor that we put into it, and it means so much to us. So thank you for doing that. Uh, I'm just excited to have you here, man. So, uh, that said, where, uh, where did your journey all start? Where did um did it? Did you, were you passionate about hunting or you know? Actually, let's even go further back. Where did you grow up? And let's get a little background on you where you know where you're from and all that good stuff?
Speaker 3:yeah, sure thing, man. Uh, so I'm from a small town called Cutoff, louisiana. I haven't lived there in some time now. I still go, my family's still there, but nonetheless I grew up with a rod and reel in my hand and a shotgun and rifle. You know, just hunting, fishing as just a way of life. Down there People do it, and just something that my parents, my relatives, everybody instilled in us and we just hit the ground running with it, met my wife and ended up putting our roots down here in Shrever, louisiana. So we're on the southern end of Louisiana, southeast end. But yeah, it's still a way of life where we are now and just led me into the retriever world. Always wanted a retriever, my parents. They got me a beagle cause they said no big dogs in the house, and then uh, I discovered the Boykin Spaniel, and, uh, so, and that's where we are today.
Speaker 3:It got a Boykin Spaniel from Grove Hill, alabama, and and now this little guy's like a rocket man.
Speaker 2:Those Boykins are awesome, they're full of energy and I just love their demeanor. So when you said what led you to the retriever Ultimately like, did you see a retriever out in the field or you just seen it on the internet what made you say, yeah, I really would love to have a dog?
Speaker 3:So hunting over somebody that had a retriever whether it was a guided hunt or with friends seeing the work and seeing the level of relationship that owner and or the handler had with that dog, it was amazing and like the dog would go and retrieve things that I didn't even know, I thought the bird fell somewhere else and the next thing you know the bird is across the pond and the dog has it in its mouth and I'm thinking, nah, that dog's never going to find it. And when I saw that I was like that is awesome, I want to be part of that. And it just led me down the road and came across Cornerstone on social media and was like hey, what's this man that?
Speaker 2:is cool. Well, we'll jump to that here in just a second. But I guess what was your first memory of hunting? Or is there any memory that stands out to you about the outdoors in particular, or is it just the collective as a whole, like you just liked it all?
Speaker 3:So I think my first time was uh, rabbit hunting Uh that was like the easiest way to do it.
Speaker 3:Uh, you know, you didn't need a boat and didn't need anything. Just find some briar bushes and give it a kick and jump in it, if you're willing, and see if something runs out. Uh, so yeah, I think rabbit hunting was. I remember all my friends were hunting way before me and I was like I always wanted to do that. So my dad one morning said hey, I'm going to come pick you up from your friend's house or go rabbit hunting. In the morning I was like that's awesome, did not sleep at all. We went and ended up killing my first rabbit, first time I've ever hunted, and that stuck with me ever since. And then just going on hunts with everybody in my family and just being around it just made me dive deeper into it and had a strong passion for it ever since.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Does your whole family hunt, or just your dad, or how does all that work?
Speaker 3:So my dad hunts when he can when he can, when he, when he can, and my two other brothers hunt, my oldest brother doesn't, but for the most part the guys mainly hunt, my sisters do not.
Speaker 2:Nice, nice. Yeah, it's kind of the same same for my family. It was really just mine and my dad's thing and my sister sister I think she went on one squirrel hunt, if I remember correctly. That was about it. That I could recall she liked to fish and all that, but that was definitely not her thing. So the Boykin what led you? Was it a Boykin dog that you saw in the field the first time, or you just decided the Boykin was the way to go for you?
Speaker 3:So actually it was a Labrador retriever and Chesapeake and I saw the working. I saw how hard a Chesapeake worked. I was like, oh, I want one of those. They're just a big, tough, resilient animal. They'll run through a brick wall for you, nothing against the Lab. I just saw, like, the intensity of that Chesapeake.
Speaker 3:However, I was also kind of in the mindset of that Chesapeake. However, uh, I was also kind of in the mindset of my parents. I did not want a big dog running around. Uh, I had beagles, uh, growing up, so I was so used to that uh drive from them and a smaller dog and I was just kind of looking for something that was good, family oriented, something not too big to be inside. And and, uh, I came across Boykin Spaniels one day and started reading about them and say, man, these little things, they look very pretty and they look like they work really hard. I watched some videos on YouTube and Facebook and I was just like these little things are some machines, like I'd like to give it a go. And I didn't know what I was in for until I actually bought a Boykin. You know, did all the review on them, but mainly my wife is what sold me on the Boykin. You know did all the review on them. But mainly my wife is what sold me on the Boykin.
Speaker 3:She waited till after we had a party for her father and the next morning she waited until I was a little hungover and she's like, hey, what do you think about going to Grove Hill, alabama next week? I'm saying where's Grove Hill, alabama, first of all. And she's like, well, that's not important. And I was like what do you mean? And she goes and she put a picture of a dog in front of me and I was just like I said I don't know, we just moved into the house. We're probably here maybe a year, year and a half, and I was just like I don't think about it. She goes. Well, I already put a deposit down. We're going next weekend. She goes. You don't have any plans, right? I'm just like I guess I have plans to go to grill hill, alabama, and that was definitely the best decision she's ever made for me dude, that's so cool.
Speaker 2:wow, yeah, so how was uh? When did you find cornerstone in the process then? And you weren't even thinking about having a dog? At this moment it sounds like it was kind of thrust upon you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so I saw Cornerstone just from playing on social media one day. Yeah, and social media is weird, it picks up. I guess it's listening to our conversation right now honestly Probably.
Speaker 3:There'll probably be a post about Cornerstone on one of my feeds when I get off of this podcast, but I saw it just scrolling through Facebook. I'm saying that looks pretty cool and I'm a person that I like if I like being responsible of the results, if I'm putting into something. So I was like this would be definitely in my alleyway. But before I lean towards the Boykin, this kind of answers the question I'd already reached out about Cornerstone Like what was it like beforehand. So I had an idea of it after I saw it, because I wanted to get a German short hair pointer, mainly because I liked how they looked. They had a good drive to them and no one also wanted a dog in the area. That nobody had. Everyone has traditional labs down here and I just wanted something different.
Speaker 3:Um and the gsp just wasn't my route and no no, the boykin spaniel ended up being that way and and I'm pretty set on that dog moving forward- yeah, yeah, that's boykins.
Speaker 2:I mean, gsps are great, but boykins and labradors are are pretty cool. Um, so you already were familiar then you, so you already knew that we had a course that would help. I mean, gsps are great, but Boykins and Labradors are pretty cool. So you already knew that we had a course that would help you learn to train. So what's your story there? Were you thinking of training your dog yourself or were you thinking of sending it to a trainer?
Speaker 3:It sounds like maybe you were already thinking about training it yourself, because you had already obviously done a little bit of research. Yeah, so I was thinking about doing the training all on my own.
Speaker 3:Yeah, um, just because I wanted to be responsible for the results and uh you know, I've seen bad reviews about people sending them to um a trainer and the dog wasn't responding properly when the handler came, or the handler had setbacks, or some dogs had some different levels of aggression when they got them back, and oh, it's just and just. I I didn't want that granted down here. There's dog trainers everywhere, so you hear nothing but positive results as well. Um, but I just wanted to be responsible for my own results and and see what I'm capable of doing, especially for the fact that I'm not a patient person. I want results immediately. So it was more of a process for me to learn, not the dog in the whole way through it.
Speaker 2:Nice, well, so let's talk about that, you know, because this dog training journey requires patience. How did, how did all that go for you?
Speaker 3:So I believe a man is as great as the woman that's standing with him or beside him. I believe a man is as great as the woman that's standing with him or beside him. My wife definitely kept the patient level to an all-time high and then I realized just through research and all that boykins don't respond well to negative reinforcement, Even if they do something completely wrong. Finding a way to take a positive out there and not typically rewarding the dog but making it almost like a positive negative result, as we learned in the training program. Um, but really having my wife hold me accountable as a handler and say maybe it's not the dog, maybe it's you, like dial it back something, and that kind of helped form a level of patience there, Like hey, uh, the woman I love is telling me something. I better listen you know that's funny.
Speaker 2:You said that. I've heard somebody say that recently too, and it's uh typically when you listen to that woman that's beside you.
Speaker 3:that can, that can go well for you. Yeah, I think honestly, in some situations she was a better handler than me.
Speaker 2:I'm just like maybe I need to take notes on what she's doing. That's pretty cool, though, and being humble like that and listening and paying attention, I mean that's clearly served you well. So it sounds like y'all have done this together as a team. Did she do the training too? Did y'all both go through the course together?
Speaker 3:Yes, from day one she was by my side through every session, didn't matter if she worked late. She would literally ask me hey, hold up, I want to be part of this. Didn't matter if the mosquitoes were coming out. She wanted to be part of every session and, uh, you know I'm glad she was, cause it helped shape both of us into better people. Um, and just build a relationship with our dog we never thought we'd have before. Like, I had beagles before and training them was nothing compared to training a retriever, and just the relationship I formed, compared to the relationship I had with animals in the past, was completely different.
Speaker 2:Wow. So how old is your dog now?
Speaker 3:Benelli, he'll be two in May, all right. Knocking on the door of two years old.
Speaker 2:Two years old. That's awesome. And y'all have completed the course. That's amazing. Y'all have breezed right through it and it sounds like together, as a team, y'all have made it happen. You've got that strong bond. Well, just describe that bond. What would you say? Like you know, I guess. Describe what you'd say the bond looks like between you and your dog and and also your wife and the dog as well.
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah, so, uh, our bonds intangible, you know it's. It's hard to put something physical to explain what it is. Uh, it's something that I probably never even have with a best friend. Uh, you know, just when you look at them, you just see loyalty and trust, no matter what. Uh, it's like integrity as well, Cause, and making you the best version of yourself.
Speaker 3:Like I started thinking, like I want to be the version that my dog sees of me. Uh, because of that, and you know, and my wife probably said, okay, you maybe shouldn't be raising your voice right now. I mean, look how your dog's responding. I'm just like, ah, you got me there, and whether it was a work related issue or just something that upset me that day, she was just like, think of how your dog would respond, or put that in her training perspective. You know, for that type of outcome and and just seeing, you know, being able to be there with my dog through anything, and the training program was actually kind of a crutch and sometimes cause my wife and I had two setbacks last year and uh, we, we had two miscarriages and we, we used the training program as like fuel to kind of help get out of that situation or those, uh, when we were going through it, just, hey, let's go train the dog.
Speaker 3:You know, if we weren't, if we didn't pray about it, we went train the dog and and uh, so that I think that helped shape the bond greater than anything. Uh, cause we got to see him enjoying his time out there and just uh, driving is in any little thing we'll do, Um, and when he would come back to you and just the look in his eyes, like you could, just it's something that, like I said, it's intangible. You can't, you can't put it really in perspective. Really, Now, the bond with her, that's, he protects her in every way possible. Like we're expecting right now, we, we have a baby due in August, 25 weeks, Thank you. And I can't even hug her. He's so protective over her. If I go to hug her, he steps between us and I guess because boykins have that chesapeake in them. Uh, he just stares at me like don't touch my mama dude, that's cool.
Speaker 2:Wow, man, that's a. That's a powerful story there and I appreciate you sharing that too. And it's amazing how just and it's cool that you and your wife is challenging as that was are able to maybe grow together closer to and found something that y'all could both do and spend time together doing. That's a. That's a beautiful story, man. I appreciate you sharing that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no problem. I'm glad the program was a way to help as well. You know, people always turn to things and I'd rather use this as my type of addiction.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Amen, Amen. This is a. It's an expensive addiction, but it's a.
Speaker 1:it's a worthy one, and it's a it's good for the family.
Speaker 2:I'll say that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we ended up with three gunner kennels for one dog.
Speaker 2:So yeah, each vehicle and one to sleep in there you go yeah, shout out to gunner, they got some great kennels. We love them, we've been with them for a while, but clearly you love them too, or you wouldn't have ended up with three.
Speaker 3:That's right, yeah. Whenever I saw a slogan like you don't love your dog if you don't have a Gunner, I'm just like, ah crap, you got me there. It's like a diamond commercial. Like you don't love your wife if you don't buy this diamond for her.
Speaker 2:That's right. Oh yeah, you're going to have to go pull out the checkbook and go with it.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's right. Yeah, they're, they're, they're like the Yeti coolers of the dog kennel world in my opinion. No question, I'm not speaking for Gunner.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, we, we love them. Well, let me ask you this so was this your first dog to you and your wife's first dog to ever train? Did y'all train any dogs before, or have you trained any dogs before or her?
Speaker 3:So, um, the first dogs I've ever had were beagles, and training them were completely different. You know, just kind of exposing them to scent trails and putting them in bushes and stuff and kind of letting them run and use each other for training. It was almost like a pack mentality Wasn't. Wasn't that difficult, uh, but for us this was our first dog together, first training program ever. Um, yeah, so this was our first dog together, first training program ever. Oh, wow, yeah. So this was the first time we ever went through an actual training program. Um, they, what was great about it was like it was like a guided course, rather than going, look at youtube videos and trying to create your own or spending a whole bunch of money and sending them to a trainer and and just having a dog under our roof every day was awesome. I don't know if I can send my dog for three months at our training course. That's just me.
Speaker 3:But people do it. They get great results. I'm not knocking that at all, I support them as well. But yeah, so that was the first time we ever trained a dog.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh man, well, that's so cool. That's so cool. We were talking earlier and it sounds like you have done some.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah. So in the beginning I think it was week 10 and 11, we ran into obstacles with him not wanting to go to place. Granted, we were doing that in 115 degree weather, and he just did not want to respond.
Speaker 3:I went as far as buying a tent for him with a fan blowing on him, a little mister and everything going on, and he just did not want to respond to it. We took that training indoors. I actually reached out and y'all um Facebook messenger profile about both of those weeks and, um, I was like, look, I took the training indoors and he did phenomenal in that environment. And then the feedback I got was just focused on generalization. You know he may have some hurdles with different smells and everything when you go back outside, but uh, I was just trying to find a way to have him win and it worked for us. It definitely worked for us.
Speaker 3:But yeah, so the big win you were talking about, I sent him on a 250-yard retrieve one day and he knocked it out of the park. Granted, when he got back to me he was definitely dead and sluggish. I had to use some encouragement to get him to come back to me. He was probably thinking like, if you love me, do not make me do that again. But yeah, he went out there, he didn't hesitate, ran straight to where that bumper was, picked it up, brought it all the way back and uh, yeah, I mean, once he hit about 20 yards though he was like just dragging and I bet yeah, when he sat on the place board, he had perfect form still.
Speaker 3:Uh, he was holding it perfectly. Granted, he was breathing heavy. But I was like that is absolutely insane that I sent this dog that does not speak english 250 yards away and he had to run 250 yards back to me. I mean, I it just that blew me away. In that moment I was like this training is a lot greater than just a video I'm watching telling me how to read my dog's body language and everything like that.
Speaker 2:Wow, Wow, I mean you said, I mean there's a lot of golden nuggets right there, man. I mean especially just, uh, you know, just trusting the process but also trusting your dog and uh, seeing that big moment, it sounds like it surprised you that he did that good on a big retrieve like that.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, yeah, Because it's like you don't know how they respond, because I've seen him do great at 50. Then we moved to 100. He did well, we took, we went to like 110 and it was like whoa, he like totally forgot what he was doing. It's like man. So 250, we had literally made the jump from 200. So I'm pushing it back 50 yards so I think he can do it. And he did it Like he did it right away, and I was just like that. We opened up. That was his second, that was his second distance that I sent him on that day, so he wasn't completely drained at that moment. But after that training I'm just like, ah, probably not work, you might get a pulled muscle or something. Yeah, yeah, but no, it was uh. He was young too. He wasn't even a full year yet. He was. That was uh, january 2024.
Speaker 2:So yeah, man, that is a spunky dog right there, wow.
Speaker 3:Well, those boykins have so much energy like a Red Bull.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, constant, just all over the place Jitters, I love it. So you said you ran into some challenges. Let's address some challenges, because you know everybody wants out there on social media land, wants to present everything in the best light. But the reality is we go into this thinking it is going to be, hopefully be smooth, but the truth is there's going to be some challenges that we face along the way. That's just. That's just what it is. They're just going to be there. And let me ask you this question too, before we address challenges. So, going into training, since this was your first retriever to train, was there any like thoughts in the back of your mind that, like, was it kind of like, hey, we're going to try this and see how it goes, or are you pretty confident it was going to work from the beginning? I'm just curious to hear for you?
Speaker 3:Yes, so we, we, the way we looked at it, um, we identified good, uh, a good breeder. First, to make sure we weren't just buying a Boykin Spaniel. We wanted a dog that would also have field results as well. Um, so we went in with that approach. So we found a dog. His mom was a great hunter, his dad came from a solid bloodline, um, so that was step one. Granted, he was the first dog that chose us whenever we went pick him up. So that was another feather in his cap, because that showed that most interest. And he was also in my wife's argument. He was the cutest one on social media. So that was the one we were going for, immediately for. So that's awesome yeah.
Speaker 3:So that's that's why we selected him and went that route, but yeah, kind of went sideways on that question but no, no, that's cool.
Speaker 2:I was just curious and it sounds like you were confident because of the breeding. I'm a big supporter in that and we'll support anyone, whether you have a well-bred dog or not. The reason is it's possible to train any dog, but I think from a trainer's perspective or a new person's perspective, if you can stack the odds in your favor, you might as well do that, because it's just better to make it easier on yourself and a well-bred dog doesn't guarantee great results, but it does oftentimes. It makes things easier on you for sure.
Speaker 3:And another thing too is like, if he wouldn't have turned out to be a great retriever granted, he doesn't have a whole bunch of retrieves wouldn't do much hunting this past season, yeah, uh, but he did well whenever we sent him on birds and, uh, whether it was dove or duck, he does a lot better with dove, probably because of his size, yeah, but nonetheless, um, yeah, I just I I had confidence in him from day one and I just something I didn't want to give up on. And if, say, he wouldn't have adjusted, well, he would have been a really obedient house dog at nonetheless, but we went in with the mindset that we weren't going to give up on him. Uh, you know, if he was, if he came from a hunting bloodline, he was probably going to have some drive in him, uh, so we were going to try to push him to be his best and that was our goal going into it. So that's that's what we framed it around.
Speaker 2:I love that perspective and mentality, cause that's what it is about. Right, you're going to take this dog and it's got this God given natural ability and it's our job to just bring the best out of them. Sometimes we try to force the dogs to be something that they're not, and you're better to work with their strengths, because we all have strengths personally. Every human has strengths and weaknesses, and the dog's going to have strength and weaknesses, and a lot of times people focus on those weaknesses too much and when you start focusing on that, that becomes this downward spiral to where things just don't go like they could. But when you start focusing on the strengths and you make the strengths even better, sometimes those weaknesses will get a little bit stronger too, or they'll just dissipate some and they'll just disappear. But it's really about getting that focus Right. So I love that mentality. I mean, it sounds like man. It sounds like y'all got to figure it out going through this process. That's cool.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So it's just it's to figure it out. It's one thing to watch the videos, but it's actually getting out there and do it, and when your dog's not listening to you, you're trying to. You got you start figuring out why he's not listening. And and part of my wife's process in the beginning was, um, I had her, uh, videoing what we were doing so I can see if I was doing something wrong or where. Where were we failing at? Was it too, where we're going too long in sessions or things like that? And then after that she was just kind of hooked. It just became second nature. That's something we did together. And then when those episodes happened, or events, if you will, that just was the driving home force, like it's all of us together every time we're going out in the field, and it's even to the point she'll come on, hunts with us just a video and see him do well, uh, she cause she's so proud of of how happy he is when he does those things. And she's not a hunter by any means.
Speaker 2:That is so cool, man. I love that. Wow. Hey, I hope you're enjoying the episode so far. I just want to stop and ask a favor of you real quick. If you are enjoying this episode, let me know, Like, subscribe, hit that notification bell that way you can be aware of any new content that we release. And also just let me know what you're thinking. Maybe there's something that stands out to you, or maybe you just have a thought and you'd love to comment. I can't wait to see what you put in the comments and can't wait for you to subscribe. So now back to the podcast free to subscribe. So now back to the podcast. I mean, yeah, you got to be proud of your dog, especially when they're doing some big dog stuff and when you're just approaching two. Can you imagine what your dog's going to be doing at three and four years old? Now that you've come to this place, you know the world's your oyster for this dog.
Speaker 3:You can continue developing them even more. Oh yeah, I cannot wait, like I've always been one chasing whitetail deer in the fall and this winter time, and now, with a little one on the way to you in August, till season in September. Uh, we'll probably put a lot more focus on staying home in the? Uh coastal marshes and crawfish ponds. So uh, but now he's going to be getting a workout this year.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. Well, now that can be part of the whole family. All right, your little, your little one's going to be able to play a role in this and it's fun, and for my kids it's. They love like, uh, both mercy and joy. My, my little girls, they love going to see the dogs. Anytime I get home from work, that's the first thing they're doing. They're knocking on the basement door. Hey, let's go, let the dogs out, let's go, let go train the dogs and and play with them. So you'll have that to look forward to you. It's going to be, and especially with the base that you've got on your dog now, that's going to really help you too, because the dog's trained, so now you can spend extra time right with your family and your, your dog will already just fit naturally in because it's already part of the family.
Speaker 3:that's pretty cool yeah, yeah, he's at every family event. He's he spoiled. He's going to have a little shake up when Camille arrives, but with all those curly hairs, I see a lot of pink bows in his future.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, yeah, just wait. You're going to send a tag us in that picture. We'll have to post it up on the social.
Speaker 3:That'll be cool. Yeah, not seen in training.
Speaker 2:It makes it even more fun. Seen in training, it makes it even more fun. Well, what's um? Did you run into any other challenges along the way? That um that you want to share about? Maybe to encourage some others if they've run into the challenges as well?
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, uh, working in heat would probably be number one. Um, we probably have nine months out of a year that it's hot in South Louisiana and it gets humidity.
Speaker 2:Oh, it's the worst I've ever experienced.
Speaker 3:It's crazy, absolutely terrible. Um, so, finding ways to win. You know, like I said I I put a fan out there. I actually went by a tent, a pop-up tent for him keeping his blind under there, keeping his fan cool, having a fan running in his blind. I mean, opening day for dove season, we were in the hundreds and we went for opening day. It was foggy, it was just set up for a dog not to win, it was just hot, foggy mosquitoes. It was absolutely miserable. And I'm almost like that's when I knew my wife Well. I always known she's loved me, but I knew she definitely loved me in that moment. She was sitting through that absolutely miserable weather, brutal, and and I, the birds just weren't flying. We ended up. We got his first retrieve that day. It was a blind retrieve because I shot it behind his, his MoMars blind, and that back end was closed. So but he did well Nonetheless. So heat would be probably number one. Two was hand signals.
Speaker 3:In the beginning I had to find a way that he would win. Uh, you know, if I was just sending an open palm for him to go over to his left, he would not respond. I think he was getting confused. Maybe I was holding when I would send him back, maybe I was holding it too close in motion, uh, because I'm also think I gotta think about it. He's a lot smaller than a normal dog. Yeah, he's a 34, 35 pound boykin, uh. So he's even smaller on the normal dog. He's a 34, 35-pound Boykin. So he's even smaller on the Boykin side. He's closer to the female weight. So I had to think about how was he viewing me? What type of perspective? If I get down on his level, does it look the same to him? So I had to incorporate both hands to send him left or right. And once I incorporated that, that's where he started winning and that's what he knows now for sending him left and right. And that's kind of cool about the program it teaches you how does your dog learn, how does your dog win, and kind of tailoring that to the modules as you move forward. So those were two big hurdles and keeping him entertained, mixing it up, making them creative.
Speaker 3:Boykins have a hyperactive brain. They lose focus quickly if you do not keep them creative. Um, boykins have a hyperactive brain. They lose focus quickly if you do not keep them entertained. And that was definitely something not just going through the motions of it, just and and the repetition. Repetition was one thing, but finding ways to do repetition while making it challenging each task. We did it Cause if not, he would do like three of them and I can see he's starting to drift off and in different, in a different world. But just just having the patience and having somebody to humble you you can't humble yourself in those moments is a great way to do it.
Speaker 3:I think training with two people my wife and myself was great because it helped them. When other people would enter the room or enter the environment, they were like yeah, your dog can train with anybody here. It's like wow, and I think that was part of it. Plus, um, our neighbors have dogs and we would train in our backyard. We live on it's almost an acre. Uh, we had about 32 acres behind us. We'd work them on um, with all different types of scents and smells, like coyotes, all those type of things. So, um, exposing him to all those scents and having him work through it as a puppy and we live all. We also live right off the highway, so the other challenge was having him not run to the highway with no shot collar on. Wow, um, so we would go pretty deep on a 32 acre property, prevent something like that from happening and uh, so, yeah, just, I guess setting up outside boundaries too, because he would book it sometimes. And it was just like this dog's never coming back, like you just take off running.
Speaker 3:We have a five collar that tracks where he's at at least. Uh, he is chipped so he decided to slip away completely. Maybe we'd find him. He's a pretty dog, so I doubt someone would want to turn him over. Maybe they'd see this. This dog is absolutely wild because it's a Boykin Spaniel, bouncing off the walls if he's not being used properly, uh, so, yeah, just keeping him entertained if yet. Cause their energy level is insanely high, the summer heat, uh, or just Louisiana heat and humidity, um, hand signals were. Hand signals were pretty rough, I'm not gonna lie. Um, and it's just I. Once I found ways to make him win, they weren't difficult at all. Uh, patience as a handler, that is a big one. Uh, because, like I said earlier, you're teaching a dog that does not know human English and just trying to find them to comprehend you and I have a Cajun accent, being from the South, so I don't know if that messed with him any, being he's an Alabama boy.
Speaker 2:It might have. That's pretty funny right there. I love what you're saying, all of this really, but I love how you keep hitting on a central theme that we hit on in the videos, which is find a win, get a win. It's all about the win, right, and you know training, how we train differently than a lot of the world out there. Right, where our goal is to train, to where our dogs gets to do it, it's not a has to do it. They're doing it out of desire, right? We believe the desire is already in them. So why should we have to force our dogs to do something that they already love to do? Because if we're not preparing them and training them properly, then then we're not doing it right. If we're having to force them to do it, we're not doing it right.
Speaker 2:But a lot of that comes from finding a win, and you keep talking about that. So what was one of the early realizations of? Okay, finding a win makes sense Because you see people at all different levels that are still learning that concept and even though it sounds simple, it is simple. It's something that sometimes we want to overcomplicate this whole training thing and think, oh, we got to do these big, complex things but in reality it boils back down to are you getting successful steps in the right direction and are you getting wins? So was there a moment where that kind of like clicked with you? It's like winning is getting a win every day is what matters, kind of like clicked with you.
Speaker 3:It's like winning is getting a win every day is what matters. Yeah, sure, sure, uh, definitely so, um, yeah, I learned that cause, uh, I know some of them, some of the training for like a negative reinforcement without hurting the dog, given, um, not an aggressive tug on the lead, but enough to let the dog know, hey, you need to pay attention. I learned if I pulled too hard he would just completely shut down. If I would scream at him in a very loud voice if he wasn't listening to me, or something I can basically just call that training over with. There was times where I was just so frustrated and that goes back to the patience I'll blame the heat of summer. No, I'll take full responsibility for it. I'm not going to lie. I'd raise my voice super loud on that dog and I saw him shut down, ears tucked, tail between the legs, sit and just sink on that place board and my wife's looking at me like that's on, you Don't look at me. And I'm just like damn, she got that on video too like I'm gonna look like absolute monster. Animal control is gonna be called on me. I never laid a hand on the dog, but I'm screaming at him like a madman and just so you know, looking in the mirror and realizing that this is a 35 pound animal. I'm a 200 pound man, six one. Like I already have an intimidation factor with size on this little fella. So maybe back off, ease up on them. So you know my tone of tone of voice mattered. Yeah, tone of voice and not being too aggressive with lead corrections.
Speaker 3:You know, I'm glad like the program never really talked about using shot collars. They're great in dangerous situations. We live in a world down here where alligators are everywhere, like there's situations I won't. If I'm going hunting like a local marsh and it's hot out, I'm not bringing Benelli, uh one, my wife would never forgive me if something happened to him and I would probably put myself on harm's way just to get them. Um, yeah, so uh, I see why people use shock collars down here to definitely redirect their dog if a gator is coming to them. But then I would be scared at the same time I'm not shocking that dog and the dog's thinking is doing something wrong when it's really doing something right. Right, you know. So just finding a way to wind without using that type of collar reinforcement.
Speaker 3:And those were challenges because I saw how a lot of dogs responded easily to situations they weren't doing well. Once someone put that shock collar on them, and I viewed it as well. If my dog's not doing well, if I'm tugging that leash pretty hard, I'm raising my voice to him. He'll probably do really bad if I use that collar. So that's why I stayed away from it, and it's just not how I feel my dog can have the best results. What works for me may not work for somebody else. Uh, given what their dog's tolerance level is. Uh, but you know, uh. So, yeah, those were ways that I found I needed to change it up. If not, I'm just going to create a dog that's terrified, probably a thunder uh, and won't do well with gunshots, and that would just negate everything we've worked so hard to do. So, yeah, that's finding what made him not do well and not doing it.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a good point. And on the collar thing, I think it's a good point too. I think it actually will serve people really well, even if you are going to use a collar, to not use it for a period of time and to learn to get your dog to respond without it. Because if you can't get your dog to respond and listen and comply without a collar, you 100% don't need to be using a collar, because at that point you don't understand training yet. Once you can train your dog and that doesn't mean your dog's not going to have these spells, like you said, some challenges Maybe they don't listen. I'm not saying your dog's going to listen perfectly before you use it, but if you're not solid on your training fundamentals and it sounds like y'all got there then you definitely don't want to be throwing that on there Because, like you said, it'd be easy to make a mistake and there's a lot of people that misuse that tool because it's a powerful tool and used wrong, that's not good. So I love that how you're attacking from those different angles and getting those wins as well, because when you get the win, your dog trusts you more and the way we talk about it in the course, and you know this, it's about that trust bank. You're either depositing or you're withdrawing. If you're depositing in the trust bank meaning you are a good trainer, you set your session up right and your dog is winning then your dog is going to trust you more. If you do the amateur thing that a lot of trainers do, they withdraw from the trust bank because it becomes more about them.
Speaker 2:Let me see what I can do by training this dog and therefore you start testing and pushing your dog every session and then at a certain point your dog stops trusting you because you've pushed and you've tested too much and you've basically withdrawn all your deposits. So there's that fine line of balance. It's okay to withdraw from the trust bank, but you need to make more deposits than you do withdrawals. And I'm all for pushing the boundaries right. Because once you've generalized your dog, at a certain point you've got to know their breaking point. You've got to know like, okay, I can trust my dog in this situation or I can't trust my dog in this situation. The only way to do that is to put it to the test and find out. But you don't want to test day to day. You really want to train day to day and test periodically to find your dog at that level. It sounds like you all have done a really good job with that, especially between you and your wife, working through the training together and kind of coaching each other up.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yep, her name spelled with like five letters, so that's the quickest way I can spell accountability right there. She definitely holds me accountable.
Speaker 2:That's awesome. That's awesome. Well, what's uh? What's been your greatest memory, greatest moment, greatest memory with your dog thus far? Or maybe you and your wife together and the pup, um, as far as training goes, and turning it into something you're proud of?
Speaker 3:All right, yeah. So my, my greatest moment would probably be his first retrieve, cause it was a blind retrieve. He retrieved a bird in the fog that I shot behind him. We weren't, we weren't getting birds flying in at all. Um, probably cause it was foggy. Dove couldn't see the ground, they were staying on the power lines and top of trees.
Speaker 3:So I told my wife, I said just wait here with dog, I'm gonna go walk, look at the tree line, see if I can flush anything out, put some type of bird in the sky. So while I was doing that, lo and behold, of course birds are gonna fly right over. Where we were. They flew right over. I saw that, uh, and then they started circling back. One left and, uh, one came back. So I shot at the one that came back and it fell right on the side of a canal. Oh, wow. And I told my wife I was just like hey. I said, send benelli over to me. I'm gonna just point him in the right direction. Hand signal. Hopefully he follows it. I said it's foggy, uh, I saw where the bird fell. I knew where it was. It was like 25 feet away from it, was not far. Wow, uh. So she sent him to me, he was already shaking and crying uh like in excitement, ready to roll the gunshot. And so he came, ran straight to me. I made him stay in heel. He is shaking like crazy just looking everywhere. Of course he doesn't see it, um, and the grass is failing was kind of tall because it was on that canal bank. So I just pointed in the right direction hand signal, sent him back. He ran and it kind of helped because the canal acted as a back border. I'm really glad he didn't jump in it because I cannot keep him out of water. He ran straight up to it and it looked like he was going to go in the canal at first and his nose was down the whole time. And when that nose hit that bird he just froze, lifted his head up, looked at me, picked it up, came running back to me and I was just like this is what it's all about. It was fantastic.
Speaker 3:That was our biggest win ever, just to see we put in all that work and we weren't completed the program at that point. We were at the end of it, probably in the late forties yeah, uh, but or maybe early fifties, cause I know it's 52 week plus, it's like 56 weeks total. Yeah, uh, but yeah, we were right at that end of it. Uh, so, yeah, just, uh, the environment was not set up for the dog to win and he won. Uh, that that's why it was such a big win for us. I still have the shotgun shell and everything.
Speaker 3:That was the only shot I shot all day. Wow, that's the only two birds that flew near us all day. Uh, yeah, we just packed it up and went home after it was. It was probably the best feeling ever, you know, and just seeing his excitement, we actually, just to keep him entertained while waiting for a few more, we threw the dove out in the decoys with the spinners, uh, letting him go run, pick him up, bring it back. Uh, and he, just, he was so focused because I put it on top of his um, his momar spline, and he kept wanted to try to lift his head up and look over the top to grab that bird. He was just so focused on it. But, yeah, that was, and that's the only bird we killed that day. And he, he was, he performed when he shouldn't have performed well.
Speaker 2:That's awesome and that's just a testament to your consistency and following the course and putting in the work Right. And that's why we trained to that high level, cause sometimes there's a you know we do a lot of repetition and there's a reason for that, because some conditions are never what you hope they are and if you don't train to the level where they can't fell, then you will run into a situation where it runs off the rails. So that's amazing that your first retrieve was like that, as a blind retrieve, all odds were against you and then absolutely did great. What did your, did your wife get to see the whole retrieve to?
Speaker 3:Yeah, she didn't get that great of a video of it, but she has it. Um, it was. It was amazing. I kind of wish she would have got it on camera. The of me shooting the bird too, because I felt like a badass, like one bird flies over, I shot it one shot, dropped it and the bird, the dog, retreat. I was like that would have been so cool for a little process. Granted the next dump hunt, I went on. I shot terribly. I missed everything that flew in. But nelly's looking at me like what did we? What are we doing here?
Speaker 2:yeah, this isn't what I remember. Before you were one shot, one kill. This is totally different before everybody was thinking that's crazy.
Speaker 3:Oh yeah, he was thinking that he was doing something wrong because I'm not sending him, and I was just like I'm sorry, buddy, I don't know what it is today, I'm just off. But no, she was there, she was happy. We both kind of had tears in our eyes and it was amazing to see, it was fantastic. And it was like at that point she was like I'm coming on every hunt with y'all. This is awesome. I even bought her a pair of waders and she won't walk on water that she can't see through, so it's pretty awesome.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, man. Well, so how does that first hunt compare to like your first session on week three? You know, when you actually start with a place board. You know some of that. If you look at those two days they're drastically different, but there's also kind of a similarity. Right, it's a new beginning, a first, and tell me about kind of that contrast that you experienced your first day training versus your first time hunting.
Speaker 3:Sure, yeah. So that first day training almost, if you will, sets the baseline of what your program or what you're going to get out of that dog from the beginning, because that first day it's four different little sessions. They're like five minutes apart, three to five minutes, uh, with like a 10 minute. Five to 10 minute break in the middle. Get the, let the dog rest, because it's very stimulating for them, uh. But in that moment it was just putting your dog on the place board with a whole bunch of treats and clicking it. Every time those treats hit their mouth and just kind of stepping away back Dog comes to you then kind of hoping they go back to that place board and the minute they go you hit it.
Speaker 3:Because everything is nonverbal in the beginning. Yeah, because you're teaching the dog like, hey, this is what's expected. And then you add those verbal cues to help them in the process and to show them like, hey, this is what's really expected. But teaching them nonverbal at first really shows them like, hey, this is the task, this is what we're going to do, moving forward and we're just going to throw some help in there to help you win every time. And then taking that plays board, situation of little dog wiggling his tail off because he's getting these little bitty diced up hot dogs and then put them in the field where he's not necessarily getting a treat. He's doing it for a rub behind the ear and a good boy.
Speaker 3:Uh, you know it was. It's just completely different because you you go into it really nervous and I'm a by the book type of guy. I created a spreadsheet for every week and I was recording his sleep. I was recording everything like how much time between each each restroom break and what was the variance from last week, and all types of things like that. I'm a little data nerd, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:That's awesome.
Speaker 3:My wife was reading the log the other day and and it goes back to all the way to that first training where it's just laid out, laid out, laid out, laid out following week by week, by week, and I was so worried about staying on that that line, Like hey, we just finished week three, we need to go to week four. Well, not necessarily week three can be a whole month if you need it to be, yeah, and just realizing that, that you know sometimes it takes some time to win.
Speaker 2:That's awesome, man, and I love like that contrast, but it's all. It is all that reward, right? You know, starting from the very beginning, we're teaching the dog seek out, reward, think for yourself. And I don't think there's a better contrast than your, your first hunt and the first session we started with teaching the dog to think for itself. And you, you started your hunt with a dog thinking for itself, trusting you but thinking for itself. You, you started your hunt with a dog thinking for itself, trusting you but thinking for itself, and that contrast is just so cool. And to hear you say, uh, you know, you're, you're tracking the, the reps and and just enjoying the process and that nervousness that you were feeling, that's something we all feel. And when we get our dogs out there, you know, I remember and I know everybody remembers this, right, it's, it's the moment of truth. Is this? Did it work? Did it not work? Because you don't really get to put it to the test until that day, and so that's amazing that it just went so well.
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Speaker 2:As we kind of wrap up here and just sharing your story, I mean we'll have to have you back on. Maybe you and your wife we could have back on and, uh, have you guys share even more as you continue the training process, especially as the little one comes along. You could talk once the little one's here, camille, you can talk about how all that interacts and changes uh things. But you know you shared so many good tips. What would be like one of your top two, one or two nuggets that you've kind of like held on to through the whole training. That's really made the most sense for you. What's the one or two things you think about every time you're going out to train that helps you stay centered and focused?
Speaker 3:I think about the excitement out of the dog Once you take it from just a place. Poor concept to this is what you do. This is how you have fun and making sure that it stays fun for him, just seeing how he thrives in whatever environment will put him in, and I think it's like the look on his face when he look, when you guys link up in eyes and you see how exciting it is. Like you, you alluded to it earlier when you grab a shotgun, I grab my shotgun to go turkey hunting. Uh, I don't remember if it was last week or weekend before he threw a fit that I was leaving the house with the gun without him. And uh, I was. I was joking with my wife. I was like he's a boy can spaniel. They were originally used to flush turkeys out of swamps in south carolina. I'm gonna take him turkey hunting with me. She's like absolutely there's rattlesnakes, that's fair, he wouldn't know what to do.
Speaker 3:But no, just seeing out of my top two things it's the drive and excitement you see out of the dog and just the relationship you create with them In terms of social skills. Luckily, I was able to take him to work with me some days. It's an hour drive that helped with travel with me some days. It's an hour drive that helped with travel. Uh, so you know, he spent two hours in a vehicle with me just going to and from work. Uh, and just seeing how he responds in public with people, um, you know we'll take him to home depot academy and he's staying in heel and he wants attention from everybody because, as a puppy, oh yeah, we brought him into those environments when it was safe to do so and uh, you know, just seeing the excitement and just seeing how personable he is with people and he I'm not going to lie, he has anxiety issues he's definitely attached to me.
Speaker 3:That's awesome Well a lot of them do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, we get attached to these dogs, they get attached to us. What would be one thing is, I guess, the final question I have for you to share. I so what would be one thing is, I guess, the final question I have for you to share. I always love asking this what would be something you would share to someone in your shoes getting started, you know, maybe to ease some of their concerns of like, because we all have the concerns coming into it, right? Maybe their question in the back of someone's mind hey, I'm afraid I may fail at this. What if my dog doesn't turn out? You know, those are some real questions that people have, or maybe some feelings that people have. What would be something you would say if you had a buddy? That was kind of hey, I'm thinking about doing this, you got a good dog. You know, is this something I should do? How can I know this is going to work out?
Speaker 3:So basically, I would look at it through a perspective, because when you're training you're going to face some level of adversity. That adversity is a privilege, and learn from it in those moments, because it's going to give you an opportunity to learn and develop not only as a handler but as a person as well, because that dog's going to teach you things about yourself that you didn't realize and it's going to make you look in the mirror on some days and say, hey, I need to be a better person or I need to speak to in a different tone, or things like that. I guess it's going to develop a level of emotional intelligence you didn't realize you needed and people will be like you're crazy, you're talking about a dog, and at the end of the day it's like no, it's a reflection of yourself, because you're the one putting in the work, and your work into that dog will help create that outcome. And it goes back to adversity. You're going to face those moments.
Speaker 3:How are you going to pick yourself yourself up or how are you going to fix this situation when it goes bad? So it's more than just a dog training moment. It's going to kind of help you navigate through adversity and use it use as use what you learn from adversity, that it cultivates innovation. You know how are you going to find ways to win it and take those nuggets. Apply it not only to your training, to your everyday life. So I think the training goes beyond just a connection and teaching a dog to go get birds when we're fully capable of doing it ourselves.
Speaker 2:Man, that's awesome, man. Well, it's been an honor to have you and that nugget you shared is very encouraging and hopefully anyone, even if you're in the middle of the training process, takes that to heart. Right, those challenges they are. I love how you said they're a privilege, right. The adversity you face is that opportunity to grow and it's clear that you've embraced it. And as long as we're willing to embrace growth as people, we'll do well. And, man, I'm so excited for y'all. I'm so excited for your baby that's on the way, excited to see this next chapter as y'all enter into that, and this next hunting season for you and your dog. I think next chapter as y'all enter into that, and this next hunting season for you and your dog, I think it's gonna be cool and I can't wait to see your dog in person and see that little spunky boy can run around and get some photos and video of that dog. It's gonna be cool that's right.
Speaker 3:Yeah, we'll have to make a members weekend, for sure. And uh, yeah, maybe next time, if we make it out there, he'll come, he'll, he'll attack uh tag along with us. But yeah, man appreciate the time and you know, I'm more than happy that I decided to go for it and do the 52 week plus program. And uh, it's my selling point to everybody now whether you just want a dog that's excellent, with obedience, or a dog that is going to do the unthinkable for you, it's, in my opinion, it's the best route to go.
Speaker 2:Well, we appreciate that man and uh, just again, we appreciate you and it's an honor to have you on and people like you on this to share your story. So thank you.
Speaker 3:I appreciate it, josh. Thanks for your time and, like I said, y'all program goes without saying. Thanks, man, thank you.
Speaker 1:Thanks for listening to the Build From here podcast. To learn more about retriever training or our podcast, visit cornerstonegundogacademycom slash podcast.