Build From Here
Build From Here
Passing the Torch | Marshall Anliker
Josh sits down with longtime CGA member and founding supporter Marshall Anliker to talk hunting, dogs, and the power of community. Marshall shares how a blizzard goose hunt with his great-grandfather lit the fire for waterfowling, how that led him to British Labradors and Southern Oak Kennels, and why Cornerstone has been part of his last three dogs.
From college days stacking classes around duck hunts to running a roofing company and training high-drive British Labs at a high level, Marshall opens up about genetics, discipline, reward timing, and what it really means to “train the dog in front of you.” If you’re serious about building a steady, family-friendly hunting companion and you love hearing real stories from real CGA members, this episode is for you.
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SPEAKER_00:Welcome to the Build From Here podcast. On this episode, it's my great honor to be introducing you to Marshall Ann Liker, an incredible CGA member. He's been with us for a long time, a founding member. He's been uh, you know, I think you're on our second dog now. We're gonna have so many good stories to talk with, uh, Mr. Marshall here, so much good things to cover. But uh, I just gotta say it's awesome to see before we bring him on that um to have people be with us for so long. You know, Cornerstone's been around since the fall of 2016 at the recording of this. And uh, you know, here we are in 2025, we're wrapping up 2025, and just to see people stay with us for that long and then continuing to train dogs because of the lifetime access and all that. It's absolutely incredible. So uh without further ado, let's bring Mr. Marshall on. How are you doing? Welcome aboard. I'm awesome, Josh. Thanks for having me. Privileged to be here. Man, it's it's my honor. Uh remember we had a we had a film with you and uh Moose from back in the day. We maybe we can link that up somewhere. It's definitely still out there. Definitely an inspirational film. Uh y'all kid y'all had a good goose hunt on that film.
SPEAKER_02:You know, believe it or not, we uh we bang them up a bit around here. Yeah. We're not in it for the practice. We're not in it for the practice.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you know, if you're gonna do it, you gotta do it right. You gotta go all in.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Well, let's um, man, let's get a little bit about you before we get to your background and history. Just tell us uh for the family, the cornerstone family, and for those that are just you know podcast listeners, where are you from? You know, what do you what do you currently do? And uh we'll go from there.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so I was born in southwest Kansas, uh, grew up an outdoorsman, uh, thanks to my great grandfather really taking me under his wing from a young age. Uh and he effectively gave me the bug. Uh carried that through high school, went to Kansas State University, um, where I really fell in love with waterfowl hunting. And um today I live in Overland Park, Kansas. I'm one of the owners of a roofing company here called Assurance Roofing and Exteriors. Um we do roofing and siding and gutters, both residential and commercial across the state of Kansas and about half of Missouri. Wow.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, that's uh and there's a lot of that out there. I guess, you know, I guess when I now that I think about it, when I've been up in Kansas, you don't see as many brick homes, a lot of sod ink as I was driving up through there. So that's that's big business.
SPEAKER_02:It's uh it's pretty spendy to put brick on. So uh a lot a lot of people up here uh fall into the McMansion category, so they like that cheap stuff. I mean we do all of it, but I try to push people away from the cheap stuff um just because I'm a buy once, cry once guy, right? Amen.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Well, that's awesome, man. So you fell in love. What what a um what was a defining moment for you in college that really made you fall in love with waterfowling?
SPEAKER_02:Man, I actually kind of have to take a step a little bit further back. So my fall in my true fall in love moment with waterfowl hunting was when I was 12 years old. Um, I was hunting in a pit blind in Phillipsburg, Kansas, with my great-grandfather, my dad, and two friends of ours. And it was a blizzard that morning, and there were only two geese that flew in, and I shot one and my great-grandfather shot the other, and that was my first goose and his last goose because nine days later he died.
SPEAKER_00:Oh man.
SPEAKER_02:So um it was truly like a proverbial passing of the torch. Um, I catch a lot of catch a lot of crap from my family because he was ate up with the outdoors, and I basically just picked up where he left off. Um but then uh at Kansas State, I mean, the public land access around the university for waterfowl hunting in general is just next level. Great. Uh so I was one of those guys that stacked his classes on Monday, Wednesday, Friday, or Tuesday, Thursday, and uh made sure I shot a limited ducks before I went to class.
SPEAKER_00:Man, that's awesome. Wow, that's a powerful story too. I think a lot of people can resonate with that, especially as they age, you know. A lot of times the the passing of the torch is a real thing and uh you know those fond memories, and then you move on and then you keep keep going and pass it on to the next generation. And that's what it's about, is making sure that we continue this tradition because it's uh it's deep rooted, and there's a very there's really very few of us when you think of waterfowlers in general and and hunters as far as the overall population. I was talking to this uh about this with somebody the other day. Um we were talking about you know just what you eat, well, what you get the grocery store organic versus non-organic and all that. Then we start talking about uh you know actually getting your meat, and I've got a friend that is has never done that. And I think I'm gonna have the opportunity to take them out, show them what where you know where the meat actually comes from, what that process is like, actually going through the process of cleaning the animal and then processing it yourself. And it's uh it's just amazing to think about the society we live in. And nothing wrong with it, but you you walk in the grocery store, you pick up a packaged piece of meat, and it's delicious, don't get me wrong. You take it home, cook it, and that's that. But that's not the way it's always been. Yeah, there you have to work for it to get it.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely. The uh perspective changes the further away from the dirty work, right? Um, everyone enjoys a T-bone steak, but uh very few people have the gumption to to produce cattle and slaughter them, right? The same way that we harvest um waterfowl or any kind of game. Yeah. But you know, to speak to that, uh one of my favorite things to do in college was take somebody hunting that had never hunted before. Um maybe m maybe my favorite experience was a guy, he and I did not see the world the same way, very different politically. And uh one morning I was headed out and he was still up from the night before, um, fraternity party, and he decided that, hey, you have an extra set of waiters, I want to go hunting with you. So he just came, he just came along and and hung out, and uh he started to understand our perspective a little bit, and and props to him for you know taking the chance to come out and actually experience nature at that level with us. Um I mean, it might have been a little bit of alcohol induced, a little bit of liquid courage. It might have might have been what got him over the over the hump, but one of the guys that used to put up you know a stink about me hunting decides to go hunting with me and he changed his perspective. So that was a pretty special story as well.
SPEAKER_00:You know, it it is, you know, if you think about that, it's very perspective shifting. Like you get out there, it's a very intimate experience, and you get to share it with a small group of people, whether you're you know deer hunting, waterfowling is water fowling, let's say six to eight dudes, tops. Sometimes three or four dudes, you're sitting out there, you're watching sunrises together, and you're doing something together, accomplishing something that's not easy, takes effort, um, a lot of work. So that's pretty cool that uh it changed when you say it changed his perspective. He he just didn't couldn't see why you loved it so much, and then getting out there, he's like, Oh, I could see how someone could enjoy this.
SPEAKER_02:Or exactly. Um, you nailed it. That's exactly what it was. And I said, Do you want to go again? He goes, No, one time was good, but I appreciate I appreciate you taking me out. That's hilarious.
SPEAKER_00:Oh man. Well, that sounds like he had a pretty amazing uh college experience and able to hunt and all that. I did the same thing with my dog training. I made sure that uh my classes lined up to where they were, you know, not too early in the morning so I could do some work with the dogs and then also get off in time to continue that out. And then also made sure there was never a class on a Friday because if it unless it was online, other than that, you gotta be out there, gotta be out there getting at.
SPEAKER_02:100%.
SPEAKER_00:Hundred percent. Well, how did you get into uh the roofing business and the exterior business?
SPEAKER_02:Oh boy, so kind of a roundabout way. Uh started working in construction when all my friends were uh being lifeguards at pools and mowing lawns. I was uh working for a general contractor building custom homes, and decided that that's the career route I wanted to go is is get into construction. And that's why I went to Kansas State. At Kansas State, I got a construction science and management degree, moved to Colorado, built high rises and resort hotels for a few years, and at that point my wife and I had gotten married, um, and we got tired of Denver's traffic, moved back to Kansas City, where I did more of the same, right? So I was building hospitals and um other commercial structures uh as a project manager around Kansas City and met my business partner, Don Scott. Uh and man, actually, we met through Labradors originally, um, but we're introduced by a fraternity brother of mine, Kyle Williams. I don't know if you know Kyle or not. Oh, Mr. Kyle, yes, we do. So real well. Yeah, so Kyle and I are fraternity brothers, and he's good buddies with Don. Um, we were actually on our way back from I think the second Southern Oak Kennel Summit, and I expressed my frustration with my current role, and Kyle just turned to me and said, you know, I think Don's looking for a business partner. You might talk to him. And uh we hit it off, and kind of the rest is here history. Now we're seven, seven years into a partnership and looking towards eight.
SPEAKER_00:Man, that is really cool. It's amazing how those connections just line up and uh you know, a lot can happen when you when you meet. That's kind of the same corner song got started just through meeting some through some Labradors and meeting a couple of people, and that's how we ended up uh here, and now that's how you and I ended up on this call. It's uh Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Everything is a sequence of events.
SPEAKER_00:That's right. Well, when okay, so as a waterfowler, you know, speaking of a sequel sequence of events. Let's get let's get to your events and your journey as a waterfowler. Were dogs in the picture with your granddad or in college? When when was a dog first introduced to the picture for you and waterfowling?
SPEAKER_02:So growing up, I always wanted a a hunting dog, right? Now, growing up in southwest Kansas, we hunted way more upland than anything else. Um, but frankly speaking, my parents weren't really um big outdoorsmen, right? And so there was never a a big push for us to have our own dog. Like my my great grandfather had had Brittany's and they were the worst hunting dogs you've ever seen in your life. I've never seen a pointer blow up more fields in a row than than his Britney's. Um I think he had five or six of them, and they were all named Mac. Right? So one would die, and then it'd be Mac two, and then Mac three, and so on and so forth. And it's actually the running joke in the family that uh if somebody's dog isn't listening, someone will yell across the field, Mac, Mac, uh just because that's how my great grandfather used to yell at his dogs. But um, no, I I got into dogs just because I've always wanted one, right? And as soon as I had the means and a place to keep them, that's when I decided to pull the trigger on a Labrador. Um and at the time, so Barton Ramsey and I both met through uh the Dakota Decoys promotional staff. So we were both members of the pro staff for for Dakota, and I put out a message randomly one time asking if anyone wanted to come hunt in Kansas. Barton raised his hand. Um I took him on a hunt with with a few guys um from Tennessee and a couple buddies of mine from Kansas State, and we banged him up, and uh one of the guys from Tennessee had never experienced uh Kansas mallards on a small farm pond before. Um I don't know if you have either, Josh. Have you experienced that?
SPEAKER_00:I have. Um man, I I got a lot of my hunting has been done in Kansas. It's uh it's kind of this beautiful hub of of waterfowl, but it's uh there's been times I've missed it too. If we leave early, everybody always smokes them when we leave early. So I could think of one farm pond that we left early, snowy day, and they crushed them. I still regret leaving early. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I mean, we were we were landing birds 150 at a time, right? And and they were eight-yard shots, right?
SPEAKER_00:Um so I don't think I've experienced it to that level yet.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean, those are few and far between, right? You might get a couple of those a year, they don't happen regularly. Um but anyway, take Barton on that hunt. We we hunted around Manhattan for a for a few days, and I got to see his dogs work, and that's when I decided that I was gonna get an SOK dog. Um that was really the beginning of you know, Barton and I's friendship grown, and we've hunted together a lot since. Um, but I think back in those days, I think Barton had like five or six dogs total. Right. So that's a couple years ago.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, it's uh things have changed a little bit since uh since those days. A bit. A bit. Let's talk about let's talk about an SOK dog real quick. Because I know you you're very high on them and I am as well. A well-bred dog, and you know, I think even if you're even if we're not even referring just to SOK dogs, I do think SOK, if you when you think of it, everybody knows that's a well-bred, that's gonna be a good dog. Uh and you know, why is it gonna be a good dog? Because you're you're stacking the odds in their your favor with genetics and everything, but there's a lot of passion that goes into it. I've known Barton a long time now. And uh the passion that he puts into, in fact, as we are recording this right now, I saw before we got on here that he made a post. He's on his way over to the IGL. And uh, for those that don't know what that is, that's the International Gun Dog League. And a lot of the dogs that, or basically all the dogs we run, myself and Barton, are gonna come from the lineage over there because of the level of training that has to happen to achieve the things that they achieve is is just remarkable. But it's not just the training itself, it's the obedience, it's the family aspect. Like these dogs cannot just be a good, you know, champion on retrieves, they have to be a good champion in the home as well. And so that same passion he has as he's over there right now, he's I guarantee you, he's gonna be looking at the dogs. He's gonna be watching them run. He's gonna be paying attention to the details of, okay, I like this tendency or I don't like this tendency. A lot of times the character traits and tendencies you see from the parents will end up being passed down to uh, you know, the dogs if it, especially um if it's not um, you know, if it's kind of cultivated. So that's something to watch out for too when you're picking a puppy is you know, if there's tendencies you don't like in the parents, it's okay. Just be hyper-vigilant on making sure you don't reinforce those so that you diminish that as much as possible. But let you know, from your perspective, um, what what made you decide, like, hey, was it just because of that connection with Barton early on? I mean, obviously back then you didn't realize the level he's gonna be at today, but was just something about the way his dogs work, is that what drew you in and said, that's the type of dog I want? I would love for just to hear more on that. Like, why did you decide I want this dog? I want to go here with Barton and what led you to that. Build from Here is brought to you by Retriever Training Supply. Build unforgettable moments with your retriever and equip yourself with the tools to create a lifetime of joy and discovery with your dog. Retriever Training Supply offers the tools you need to train your retriever with confidence. To shop now, visit Retriever Training Supply.com so that you can strengthen your bond, inspire new adventures, and train with confidence, knowing you have the right tools for your retriever.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so uh there might be a little confirmation bias in this, right? Because I was young whenever I was first getting into it. And and I won't say that a British Labrador is the perfect Labrador for everybody, right? It's kind of like there's no perfect fit for any vehicle, right? So if we're being honest, 98% of the hunting population, the British Labrador is perfect for, right? Um they have everything that I'm looking for. Um and you know, and as far as picking a breeder, go find a guy that's an absolute nerd about genetics, right? So my background back in Southwest Kansas is I grew up around our family farm and ranch. Um and genetics is something that my grandfather took incredibly seriously when it came to the the cow herd, and it's paid dividends long term, and I've been able to see that success um with the quality that they produce, and it all comes back down to genetics, right? So we're not only looking at appearance or performance, we're looking at everything all bundled in one, and we're looking for the characteristics that we would really like to see produced, right? Um and so I'd be the first one to admit that I will describe characteristics that I'm looking for, and then I'll start doing research, right? I'll ask somebody like you or somebody like Barton and say, okay, these are the traits I really enjoy in a in a British lab. So like for me, um, I do a wide array of hunting, uh ducks, pheasants, big honkers, lessers, specks, snows, all of it. And I need a bigger than average British Labrador for carrying big honkers back through foot-tall corn stalks. Not that little dogs can't do it, it's just they can't do it as efficiently as a larger dog can. Um but at the same time, I'm not a field trial guy, right? Like I'm not a white coat guy. Um, so I don't need the biggest motor I can possibly get. Um I really like the balance with a British Labrador that has great demeanor and tendencies around the home. Super chill. Um I love that they're like they're tested on their demeanor, right? It's the only real group that is tested on demeanor, right? Um I love that. I do not like barking dogs, I don't like whining dogs, I like no noise at all. Uh it's kind of like the old adage of what people used to say about it. Right there behind you.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I see right there just sitting nice.
SPEAKER_02:That uh six-month-old Labrador passed out on the chair, right? Wow. So, yeah. Um that's what I'm looking for, right? And what's crazy is this dog behind me, if this was my first dog, he would have been way too much dog for me to handle, right? He has a huge motor for British Labrador standards. Um like that dog has to be worked every day, or he won't be like that, right? But those are the things that you learn as you get into training dogs is that you have certain characteristics and there is give and take with each one of them, right? Um if you have a higher drive dog in the field, he's probably gonna be a little bit higher drive around the house as well, right? Those are just things you have to be honest with yourself about. Um, it doesn't mean they won't learn to be chill and they won't learn to be disciplined. Um, but back to the testing of of British labs, I mean it's the perfect test for laying the groundwork for the capacity in which they can waterfowl hunt at a high level, right? Um if I was a snow goose guide and I was planning on them having a hundred retrieves a day, I probably wouldn't be going the British lab route, but I also probably wouldn't have that dog, you know, sleeping in my house. It'd probably be a kennel dog, right? So it's just a balance of finding, you know, what you're looking for out of a Labrador.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, that makes perfect sense. And you know, I feel that's what separates Cornerstone a lot as a whole. Like the vast majority of our people are like you said, they want what you have there, a family companion first. Like this this dog isn't a tool, like a, as you said, a kennel dog. This dog's a part of the family. Right. And it goes out and hunts with us, but it also goes to the lake with us. It goes and does whatever we do, the ballpark, you know, while our kids are playing, all that type of stuff. That's kind of you know who we serve a lot. And so it's uh 100%. And but you're only gonna get that, like you said, if if that's what you're curating that, but also breeding, you know, that's one thing I would encourage people to is to see, you know, take breeding seriously. Um it can make your it can make your life easier, you can make your life better because you there's a certain flow that happens, whatever dog you get, every dog has a special unique gifting, God-given abilities and talents that that's the flow that you you know you're gonna go, right? So sometimes you don't you don't want to work against the grain. Like you said, if you look at this dog that's got this high-end motor, um, you don't necessarily want to stifle that. You just want to find a way to fit it within the bounds of of what you're doing. And so I feel like uh I like what you said there. And let's talk a little more about that. Compare your where you're at now to where you know your first the first dog that you talked about there. You said if I'd have had this dog now, I you know, I don't know if I'd have done as well as because I already had some experience. I would love to just hear a little more about that. Then we'll kind of dive back into uh the history on uh you know picking that first dog and then we'll then we'll round about how we ended on this dog here.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So um frankly speaking, it's just yeah, he's a much higher drive dog, right? Uh and and it wasn't that the other dog didn't have drive, it's just different, right? So it and it was absolutely experience-based, but it was also time-based, right? So now that I'm running a company, there are times when I'm incredibly busy, but I can almost always carve out 30 or 45 minutes in my day. It might be at one o'clock, it might be at 6 a.m., it might be at 8 p.m., but I can usually carve out 30 to 45 minutes to train a dog, right? Um, back when I was a nine to five employee, that wasn't necessarily the case, right? There were times when I'm working dark to dark, and that's actually why that first dog went away to training, is because I was working dark to dark when back in my old life. Um but this dog, um a lot of it has to do with understanding how dogs learn today, more so than I knew before, right? I was complete novice with my first dog. Um I was probably one of the people that inspired you and Barton to uh start Cornerstone because I was blowing him up with questions, right? Um and the biggest deal is like learning what's okay for the dog to get away with at a certain point, right? Are we working towards the skill that we're building, right? So we have a task we want to accomplish, we build skills to accomplish the task, right? And at times before I was so worried about messing a dog up that I was a complete perfectionist about everything. And like now with this high drive dog, if I was that much perfectionist to start before we laid down the actual skill and and reinforced and honed that skill, this dog would get so bored. Right? I have to continue to push him on a daily basis. It's amazing. If I give him easy retrieves, he'll give me easy effort. If I if I push his mental limit, then we're going to achieve at a high level. I think that's probably why this dog is excelling at training the way he is, is because um now with a little bit more experience under my belt, I understand uh the the way the dog's mind works to where I made a post in Cornerstone this morning about we're going, we're gonna take a couple steps back. Um we've already started pattern blind, which is amazing at six months old, right? But we're taking a step back and we're just gonna make everything bigger, right? So we're breaking out the dummy launchers now, we're doing 150, 200 yard marks with 200 yard memories and just trying to get that stuff dialed. And I'm just gonna keep making it bigger to keep him like mentally engaged. Um smart. But I'm but I'm going to start, you know, fine-tuning everything to where we're getting better lines. Um, we're not shopping bumpers on a memory to pile, right? Things like that that I was letting him get away with because we were developing the initial skill. Now we're honing the skill, right? Um, because and again, that just goes back to this dog, Bruce, my old dog. Um, I mean, Moose was a phenomenal gun dog. I mean, he's still my favorite gun dog, probably always will be, just because he was really my first, right? Um, but I would get in a yelling match with that dog and he would raise his middle finger to me and it would drive me crazy. Right. There were there were lots of uh hundred-yard marches to have a discussion in the field, right? Um so it it just overall, like this this dog is is going to be an absolute rock star. Uh it's cool to to watch and uh be able to guide him in that direction. Um but it it just comes down to understanding the dog, you know, more so than I did when I first started. Uh it's the same same way that you know, I'd probably encourage most novice trainers to probably get a little bit more of a hard-headed dog than you would really like, because it is easy, easy to hurt the feelings of a soft dog. And I've had an incredibly hard dog, I've had an incredibly soft dog, and this dog falls right in the middle, um, which is right where I'd like to stay.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You know, it kind of comes down to a lot of times, like we especially when we're you're new at something and you're you're working through, a lot of times it's easy to overcompensate because we which is fine. That's part of learning, right? A lot of like you said, maybe starting with a harder dog might not be a bad thing. Um, because if you do make a mistake and you've overdone it, then the dog will let you know. But also at the same time, uh, you know, it's nice to have that softer dog too, to where just a little bit of pressure that gets their attention, like, okay, we're good to go. We're good to go. But um, so your first dog after so after that hunt and connection with Barton, so that came through the Dakota Pro staff. Yep. Um let's kind of fast forward a little bit. When when did Cornerstone come in the picture for you um with with this dog? Uh was it right when you got the dog or it was not.
SPEAKER_02:So I Cornerstone was released in like, I want to say like March. Right? Does that sound right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, like March of 2017. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Fall Founders Club was well, actually, see if you bought in March, you got in the Founders Club. April of 2017 is when it went full public. November of 2016 is when it went to the founders, the founding members.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So and I don't remember exactly where I fell into that, but um Moose was six months old, November of 2016. And so at the time um I was building this giant resort hotel out by Denver International Airport, and I was working 5 30 in the morning until 7 o'clock at night every day. And so obviously, I wasn't going to lose the opportunity with the dog to keep him and his momentum moving forward. Uh, so I went ahead and I sent him back to Southern Oak Kennels for three months for training um to get me basically back to time change. And then uh I think I got him back. I did. I got him back in February and we hunted the next day. I got him back, um which which was great. Um that's awesome. He just he just happened to be, you know, far enough along in training. Um, you know, I got him back at nine months, and this isn't a typical experience, so let me let me preface that for everybody. But um I worked my tail off with that dog. Uh he he went to Barton's guys, um already retrieving doubles and you know, good good foundations laid. Place was perfect, heel work was perfect. Um or as perfect as it can be for a six-month-old, let's be clear. But anyway, it uh it allowed the trainer Brad um to really push that dog. And then when I got him back, I mean, we were already casting. So um took him on his first week of hunts the week I got him back. But so with Cornerstone being, you know, really just getting started about that March, um, I remember like pestering you guys being like, so when are we getting the advanced modules out, boys? Because uh I'm ready for those. Um but then the next dog I had, I used Cornerstone um entirely for the first year of training with that dog. So this is actually my third dog. Um the third in Cornerstone.
SPEAKER_00:Wow. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. This would be the third. Um but uh yeah the second dog we had a we had a genetic an anomaly um we made it through the first year of training and found out that he had a pretty substantial heart murmur which had made sense as to uh why he was having a couple of the issues he was having um but that happened right even if you uh stack the cards in your favor occasionally you get a bad one yeah nothing nothing wrong with that right it's unfortunate but it happened how did that first year go with your second dog so kind of transitioning doing it all yourself how how did that and what when was this was the what are they step-by-step courses out at this time or were you still following the module uh it was a module series it was still module series at that time um this was like five or six years ago now something like that um but yeah I mean I I mean frankly speaking I'm not a very not very good at following the plan perfectly um I'm I'm the guy that uh ingests all the content and then manipul manipulates it to the the way I want to do it right so um what I always tell people is you know cornerstone's an absolutely amazing system um but if you want somebody that's going to follow it to a T, I'm not that guy. Um just because I'm I've for whatever reason I'm a challenge to status quo kind of guy so I just always try to do things a little differently. But all the principles from Cornerstone is where I got the basis for how I train dogs.
SPEAKER_00:That's awesome. Yeah I mean you wouldn't be in business for yourself if if that weren't you and uh and yeah that's uh that's the beautiful thing is you can adapt it you can uh you know make changes and be successful because everything we do is rooted in principle um so as long as you if you catch the principles you're gonna win now if you start trying to change the principles you're gonna lose uh horribly not only will you lose horribly but you'll win yeah yeah and you'll beat bad habits into your dog whether you're intending to or not so don't do that don't change the principles principles are good amen so let's now let's fast forward so you train for a year and then that kind of stopped there this dog came along I guess on as your your next dog how's everything gone so far what's been if you know your experience have you done anything differently than you did with your second dog or you kind of staying on track with what you've been doing how's uh it seems like I mean if y'all are already expanding distance at this point it seems like y'all are doing some good stuff.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah um more so is just you know continuing all the fundamentals I learned with the first dog, right? And there were mistakes I made and bad habits I created just by being a first time trainer. Uh you know for example like lining drills uh I have a completely different sequence than I used to have right so before I just line the dog and send the dog now I will line the dog and then tell it good right like there's your hold right there's a line we're gonna hold and then I'll tell them to go back right whereas before if I was just running a memory not thinking about the future I would have just released the dog on its name right just like little things like that that you learn um from making that mistake in the past because then I'm telling the dog like hey this is a memory or you don't know right so like right now it's a memory but as we get into more advanced blind work like right now we're doing memory to pile where the dog can basically see the pile right we're just getting those fundamentals down but I'm keeping you keep that sequence right so you tell the dog you don't know where this is right and that's the dead bird command. So all right dead bird good go back right um that is my memory release today whereas before it was just dog's name and what I didn't realize at the time was I'm telling this dog that there's a mark out there and you should have seen it right and in reality it wasn't a mark and I'm just telling it two different things. So now there's a differentiation between a memory slash blind and a mark right mark is name release and memory slash blind is dead bird good go back.
SPEAKER_00:That's good stuff yeah yeah you learn a lot along the way it's all in the details sometimes it's hard to get all the details as you go because you drink it through the fire hose especially if you've never uh done it before I will say I do believe it's never been easier now with uh the step by step nature of the of the updated courses for those that do the step by step because we did show a dog that has never had any training so uh you get to see what it looks like when the the wheels run off and that that tend to happen a lot Miss Violet you gave me a run for my money uh which is a good thing you know everybody always tells me man I'm just so happy Violet was like that I'm like yeah I'm glad you're happy about that it was uh it was a challenge for me but it was a good challenge.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah well and I can't imagine training a dog with all the distractions of a camera crew around right like that just takes it to a that just makes it a whole new level of challenging because like my wife will even ask me to take the kids go train the dog.
SPEAKER_00:It's like can't do that yet like give me a minute with this dog we have to be one-on-one here we have to be intent um you know we're getting to the point where we can start introducing bigger distractions and it'll reinforce the training but that fresh puffy with uh those distractions would not make this an easy task no and I I understand what you're saying with the kiddos now too you know I train my dogs with the kids and they're fantastic distractions running all over the place throwing stuff when you're not supposed to out so you can take the bumper out there go through it and throw it now that's perfect steadiness throwing it two feet of the dog. But yeah the camera thing and I would say one of the biggest challenges with it was talking to the camera because we filmed everything live action as it happened and and kind of narrating but also basically doing two things and teaching you teaching the dog at the same time that uh that became challenging and Violet was pretty sharp. She kind of figured that out she's okay if he's trying to talk to them on the camera then I'm gonna see what I can get away with here. So you definitely give me a run for the money there.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely that is exactly where my head went um because again you know these higher drive dogs right like they want to please but if they don't have their mind completely uh utilized if their their entire bandwidth is not utilized they're gonna try and figure out how to get away with something yeah right that's just part of intelligence right kids are the same way right you have a smart kid probably going to try and be sneaky at some point it's just about how you uh guide them into making the correct decisions right so same thing with dog that's a good nugget I I think we need to unpack that a little bit I like what you said about the bandwidth the entire bandwidth you know a lot of time I find that people when they're looking at their dogs they think they're they're coming from their human perspective when they're thinking about the challenges they face with their dog right as humans we're more logical we think through things like we analyze it from all kinds of different perspectives.
SPEAKER_00:Dogs are very not they don't do that right they're very much instinctive in nature which means it's kind of you know like a fish when you're dangling a lure in front of it. It's either going to bite it or it's not it just happens quickly. So same thing with the dog. So if you're facing challenges with your dogs um it's you know it comes down to what you just said is the bandwidth being fully used or is it not? And most of the time dogs are never malicious in trying to you know get on their nerves or do something they shouldn't do. Most of the time it just happens that that's the way the the situation was set up. But that's kind of a big thing to unpack because a lot of people I think a lot of people miss that because they're viewing their dog from their perspective thinking, oh this dog must be thinking all of these things. In reality the dog's not thinking much it's kind of more focused on one thing after another that's why if you delay your correction timing or you delay your timing on anything it doesn't land right and therefore the dog doesn't receive either the correction or the reward if it's not in the right time because the dogs have already moved on to the next thing.
SPEAKER_02:Right and that's that's another thing that you learn as you train dogs too is how to accurately mark stuff. Right. And like for an example um like last week I think there was a guy that posted a video in the Cornerstone app um doing heel work, right? And there was there wasn't a snug lead right there was a lot of slack and when that dog would drop his nose it takes longer to react to give that accurate correction and so it takes a lot longer for them to understand what you're trying to give them and and the way you're trying to guide them right so it it just comes down to the way I look at it anyway is I I try to dogs are pack animals right they understand three tones they own a they understand a wine they understand a bark they understand a growl right and then at the same time they uh they really think almost in binary right it's either good or bad yeah and you know there's a little bit of wiggle room in there and there is a little bit of thinking required by them but I mean that's in my mind how we break down every single task that we're we're trying to get to every skill right it's like all right well if he wants to do this I'm going to make him do that because he's going to find success because I'm pointing him in this direction right um and just thinking about it from that perspective as opposed to I want my dog to heal and say okay well if I want my dog to heal let's walk through like how we get there. Are we getting eye contact from that dog? Are we getting the dog to look for us look to us for direction you know things of that nature as opposed to I'm just gonna drag this dog at heel until it it comes to heal. I mean eventually you'll probably get the dog there right um but not out of respect. He'll do it out of you know fear right and and that's not what you want right you might get the compliance that you're looking for but you're not developing a relationship in that fashion right that's why you know the clicker training is is fantastic because you know that is a positive aspect um of the training you put a slip lead on them you know there's a little bit of negative reinforcement there but it's just so easy to mark the bad behavior and I think marking good behavior is just as important as marking bad behavior and vice versa right um just based on how the dog learned right the like those harder dogs like my first dog if I if there wasn't negative reinforcement he wouldn't listen he didn't care right so so it's just it's kind of a catch 22. There's no perfect system and a lot of it is about reading the dog in front of you and understanding how they they think and learn.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah if you can grasp that concept you can win. And it and it comes down to just like you said good reward timing but also good negative reinforcement timing because you got to do it right with a lead whatever using if you happen to be using any collar you're time if you use it at the wrong time you've really just messed up. If you do it at the right time that's great. I do you know that's why I think early on clicker and treat the way we train is so good because you can, you know, a lot of people will run into a problem man my dog's not doing this right um when they start with a clicker and treat. And they're kind of doing it's just the timing's a little off the dog's just doing this instead. Well that's actually what you're rewarding. So you get to learn from that then you shift it and all of a sudden wow the dog gets it versus you know if you're going straight force early on um and you make a mistake you really limit your dog's that relationship and I like what you said about the the relationship is what we're going for. You want to have that good relationship with the dog. How would you describe um the relationship with your dog currently you know with the way you train um you know focusing on that because you know a lot it's not just do the task it's you said a a good word developing that respect. How would you describe that? And and maybe you've probably learned a lot from from the original right from that first dog to the second to the third dog now you just do you take a different approach. You take a more relaxed approach which gets that dog that connection.
SPEAKER_02:100% well and you know I I kind of have to go back to dogs being pack animals right like if you're not alpha to your dog you're not gonna get anywhere right like for example I walk into the room and this dog is misbehaving with my wife and I have to get on her like you're not alpha with that dog. And you know there are plenty of people that that don't like uh hands on any animals um but the whole thing you have to understand how dogs understand pecking order right and so when that puppy's really young and he's misbehaving I'm not talking about slamming a dog nothing like that. I'm talking I turn him over onto his belly and I will pin him the same way that a dog will pin another dog into submission right and there's nothing abusive about it there's nothing aggressive about it. It is just turning him over making them submit right and when I do that early on um we have established that we're friends until I don't until I'm not allowed to be your friend anymore right um and and again there's no malicious intent behind any of that it's just how dogs understand they're pack animals right there's one alpha in the pack um you know they might be below you know the alpha level they might be below be below the alpha female right um but they understand their pecking order right so like right now we have this dog and it happens with every puppy especially with kids around is the dog will try to jostle with the kids as to advance themselves in the pecking order of your quote unquote pack around your house, right? Where everyone listens to mom and dad but I don't feel like I need to listen to these kids because they're not my boss, right? So you know with me having young kids it's a little bit more difficult but if my kids were seven or eight years old I'd be having them do the exact same thing. Turn the dog over, pin it down wait till it submits let it up and praise it right like it listened. So that's that's one way that I I start garnering respect, right? So I don't think that you can you can but it's a lot more difficult um establish the respect respect without the fear of retribution a little bit. It's kind of you know it goes all the way back to the Bible right you know we you can't spare the child of the rod right um discipline is discipline is discipline and it doesn't matter what we're talking about. There has to be disciplinary action in every aspect of life right we all experience day to day your dog is no different um so establishing that you're alpha early I think is very important but then also you show them that whenever they're doing what they're supposed to be doing they get rewards right and early on it's treats later on like now we've made the transition that all of his rewards are retrieves right and so he does what he's supposed to do he gets a retrieve he doesn't do what he's supposed to do there'll be a reprimand andor no retrieve right um and so you just build that relationship to where the dog starts to truly trust you right like when this dog's a year old he'll go through an adolescence phase where there'll absolutely be a middle finger middle finger in the air and he'll say I know more than you do I'm not gonna listen and you know we'll have to duke it out as far as you know the jostling for position of I just won't let him pick it up. We'll just recall and recall and recall and recall until I get exactly what I want from the dog just through attrition. But you can't have that relationship without establishing from a very young age that I'm the boss there's this life is great as long as you listen right and and I think if you do that you'll be successful in training your dog. And it doesn't matter if it's a waterfowl retriever if it's a pointer or if it's a just a house pet, right? I I give this advice to all of my buddies that just come over and they're amazed at how disciplined my dogs are and I'll be frank with them like you don't you don't have it in you to have a dog that's just disciplined because you're not willing to not be your dog's friend at some point.
SPEAKER_00:And you have to have discipline period I'm glad you brought that up you know leadership requires that and that's what you're gonna you got to lead the dog well. And um but also you know a lot of people like you said some people are afraid to to discipline the dogs and maybe it's because they don't know and then sometimes you find someone on the opposite and they let things keep going on and on the third or fourth time they go and they correct it and then they wait. And then the next time it's on the second third or fourth time again. In reality when you're working these dogs if you don't like something you should correct it minute one. And that and correction looks like depends on the dog depends on the situation all kinds of different things. But you know correcting it quickly goes a long way and as you said I like I'm really glad you brought this up it's just a good concept uh I'm sure everybody listening to this is appreciating it right now because I think you're getting some good nuggets. I what the last three minutes of what uh Marshall just said was fantastic. Um but rewarding and then disciplining go hand in hand and it's also clear communication if you're choosing to reward but you're choosing or choosing to correct depending on the circumstance that's clearly communicating to the dog this is what I'm looking for and that's strong and good leadership. That's not bad. And there are times like there are certain non-negotiables right jostling with the kids right that's going to require discipline and quick swift discipline the sooner you do it the better the faster you do it the better rather than letting it drag on up because a lot of times it's not a big deal. If you let something happen and go on for you know weeks or months then you've created a habit and now when you discipline it it's going to require repeated discipline over and over for the dog to finally get it because up until that point from the dog's perspective you've allowed that to happen so the dog thinks it's okay. So you get to choose what is okay and what is not okay. And I find a lot of people are learning to navigate those waters of okay you you create the environment you create the rules and then it's up to you to enforce and make sure the dog listens to that. And I think you know it it goes a long way. So I'm really glad you brought that up because that can I hope that helps a lot of people especially if you're dealing with puppies and stuff that you don't like. And obviously there's different levels that you're gonna do it at you know an eight week old nine week old puppy is not going to perceive and receive things the same way a six and eight month old dog is either.
SPEAKER_02:So you've got to play absolutely the game with the level of dog you currently have well and you know the the one thing I would add to what you just said is you know if you let them get away with something even three or four times and then you correct them on the fourth time, you're confusing the dog. 100%. Right? You all you did was dig a bigger hole because now he's confused. He he doesn't understand why you're upset now because you weren't upset the last three times it happened. Whereas if you see that negative behavior the first time and you mark that negative behavior, then he knows I can't do that. And then the next time he does it and you mark that behavior, I can't do that. And so you're just putting the guardrails up that bounces them between it's like having bumpers and bowling, right? Like they're they're going to bump each gutter and it's your job just to keep them out of the gutter, right? And and you can narrow those bumpers as you progress in training to where like what I was talking about earlier, I allowed this dog to shop bumpers on piles on uh memory to pile because I'm just trying to stretch this dog at this point. Right. And as soon as he's stretched and he's confident going back, that's when I'm gonna hone that skill and then shopping is no longer going to be allowed right um but I won't I didn't let shopping go on you know a long time. It was mostly like two days I've got to get that dog back right and I and I'm more concerned with the distance that I am um with with the shopping aspect of it at the other end for that period of time and then I go okay we checked off the box of I need to get him back there. Now let's correct the other thing that's going on but you can't correct both things at one time. We have to pick one thing at a time and so that's why I like that analogy of you know you're at a bowling alley and you have bumpers over the gutters to start then you remove the bumpers and you start narrowing the lane right to where there's way less leeway and pretty soon you have a straight line and that's exactly what we're looking for.
SPEAKER_00:This is good stuff man. You can tell you've been doing this for a few years now I'm still no pro trainer like you Josh. I'm just alert low low one of those lowly novices running around you know at Cornerstone we believe that uh the the those lowly novices are where it's at you know we know well I'm confident that if someone like you takes your dog and you train it yourself, you can get the best results that way because you care the most. You're gonna put the most time the love into it and that's what produces the best results. Uh not to say you're gonna get good results doing anything other ways there's lots of great ways to do it. And you have to and like you if you rewind to what you did you know when you were working more you've got to make the right decision for your dog. And I would always encourage someone to do that. Hey if you if you don't have the time send your dog off but find the right person. Don't just send it off to someone random don't be cheap. Invest in your dog right and find the right people who do the right thing or if you've got the time and fortunately it doesn't take a lot of time you know if you can do like you said 20, 30 minutes um three or four days a week you can have a great dog. You're gonna win over time. You just got to make the good decisions. I want to I want to hit on something I was going to go one direction but I now that we're here I just think we should go another direction. And that's because of what you just brought up. You brought up some very um fine details and the nuances of training and you know someone listening to this that maybe if you've rewind where you were when you got your first dog you might be listening to this oh man I don't know if I'm gonna be able to figure all that out right well obviously you have figured it out over time but I want to kind of bring in the way that that is easier for people to figure out and that's the community aspect right um we actually just launched your you've got a chapter up there in your area Kansas uh city um Kansas we've got a chapter up there and I think that is a great way to have you know just something to talk about and I would love to hear your perspective on community because in fact this whole thing has happened with you the whole dog thing has always been about community. You met Barton and you've kind of been connected to the community from the very beginning. But let's talk about that maybe shed some light on some of the like some of the lessons you've learned along the way and maybe just having someone over your shoulder being hey you know maybe you try this and how that's helped you because you know if someone new is listening to this man all that sounds good. I'm definitely grasping it but I'm a little overwhelmed on how to apply it. And I I never want anyone to be overwhelmed on that because one thing is and you could shed some light on this I'm sure you didn't figure this stuff out that you know now by just saying well I'm not gonna learn you kind of are passionate about it and you went all in and you said I'm gonna figure this out and you made some mistakes along the way. And our our goal is never to avoid mistakes. Our goal is to focus on doing the right thing and then along the way when you make the mistakes you realize that doesn't line up with the right thing and you make those changes. But I think a big part of that's community. So what's uh let's talk about that man what's key cornerstone's community just the overall dog community meant to you and how is that basically attributed to get you to where you're currently at today with your dog and you know on your third dog doing well and moving in the right direction with it.
SPEAKER_02:Right. So I think first of all you have to start with it's okay to suck at something right like Tiger Woods wasn't wasn't the Tiger Woods we knew the first time he swung a golf club right um it it's all about development right and if you can be honest with yourself and accepting that you need help and that you don't know um you're already light years ahead of where a lot of people start um like if you don't know then you don't know and it's okay not to know it's just not okay to go on without knowing right like you have to figure it out. The community you know within Cornerstone I mean so prior to Cornerstone there was the Southern Oak Kennel Society which basically functioned as cornerstone for just Southern Oak Kennel people right and that's where I really got my first you know piece of dog training community um giving tips and tricks and have you thought about this kind of situation. Then we progressed into Cornerstone's Facebook page um and again same thing right and what's interesting is you'll get somebody that just joined and they'll have a question and they won't know where to go right and the cool part that's that happens in these communities is the guy that knew nothing three years ago can now help them at a level that is really uncomprehendable because they've been through it, they've done it, they're happy to provide advice um the you know the there is one issue with communities and that is the guy that's trained one dog thinks that they're an expert in dog training right um that is certainly an issue um because every dog is different right um I mean and hell I'll admit it I was one of those guys right you're like oh I've been there I'm excited I want to help you um and so you give a pointer and turns out that it worked for your dog but it might not work for another dog right um and you know that's just kind of the nature of the beast right you're gonna run into that but the community is incredible right um getting together training with people there is no better way to advance a dog um than with training with other people in my opinion uh just reinforces steadiness there's no better denial than watching another dog pick up a bird right um hands down no better denial uh it allows you to be hands on with your dog while somebody else is running their dog that's incredible right because like when you send your dog away to training and that trainer has six dogs out on dog stands and your dog misbehaves he can't correct your dog and run the other dog at the exact same time whereas if you're training your own dog and you're getting together to do group training you have your dog 100% of the time so you have your hands on your slip lead or you have the verbal the ability to make a verbal correction right away right those are invaluable things for building not only the confidence but also the relationship and then again marking good and bad behavior with your dog right like if your dog's sitting at heel with you and this dog just watched uh you know a triple mark with the blind and he has to sit still and be quiet and he does that effectively like good right good dog um and just again just building that confidence that we're we're doing the right thing we're doing the wrong thing whatever um we're we're marking good and bad behavior when we're doing that but then um you know beyond group training aspects of it you know questions frustrations I mean gear right like even gear when when you first start you're like what dog vest do I buy right like what what kennel is the right kennel do I need to buy a gunner kennel or like what's my situation you know um do I need an outdoor kennel? No maybe I don't know depends on your situation but like getting all of that feedback from everybody um is very good and I think you know to the point that I brought up like there are always going to be the people that give their opinion and you'd rather they didn't um that's part of it. But then you also learn that there are people that are giving really good nuggets um and are happy to help you and it just helps develop relationships.
SPEAKER_00:I mean some of my best friends are people that I met through the outdoor industry right and we might live in different parts of the country but we still talk every week right and just building that community is irreplaceable that's awesome man I'm glad that it's meant so much for you and it's uh yeah it's meant a lot for for our members I believe and for myself even I'm really excited uh you know we're we'll kind of start to land the plane here because I can't I was looking at the time I can't we've almost been going an hour I can't even believe it. It just goes by so quick. We'll have to do another one a follow up so you've got six month old back behind you. We're gonna have to follow up at about a year after this past hunting season and then that Next year we'll we'll do a follow up and see uh you know where it's at, how you're feeling. But also I want to follow up uh in the future since so your chapter as of the recording of this, um the the Kansas City chapter, let's talk about that, what you're most excited about, and then we'll we'll kind of land the plane on some final advice that you could share with someone.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so uh my my biggest deal um with the Kansas City chapter is giving some others some opportunity that I was gifted whenever I was first getting started, right? Um, which is a great place to go and train. Um I've been very fortunate um to be able to uh put together some pretty crazy training um grounds just outside of the Kansas City Metro. Um and it's still developing, it'll be really cool. Um I might have to host a cornerstone event there in the future. Um I'm actually in the process of building a big VRBO property that'll sleep 24. It's a giant barn to minium. Um but uh then me and a few buddies have a quarter ground outside of uh outside of Kansas City that used to be an old tree farm. Um so on that piece of property we have three ponds. Um I mean we can get as technical as you want. Uh on the on the bigger pond, it's like seven acres, and we can run I mean crazy, crazy, crazy marks. Um I think the craziest one I've I've set up out there was land, water, land, water, land. Um right. And I mean you can you can push you can push dogs to advance stuff out there, but then also, you know, for you know, guys that have young dogs, um I've got lunge water, we have um kind of technical peninsulas to train on, and then the cool thing that's unique about this property is since it was a tree farm in its past life, all the trees are planted in perfectly straight rows. And so when it comes down to teaching, casting and tea drills, whenever you're starting off like a novice dog, I can send dogs down a hallway, right? That's wonderful on either side, and we have 200 yards of a straight run that at the midpoint has a cross section that I've cut out, right? And so we can run T and double T through a hallway to just start that dog off, and we can reinforce hey, if you don't stop whenever I blow this whistle, you're gonna blow past your hallway. Right. So when I say stop, it means stop. Otherwise, you're gonna be confused, right? So we can really build on that stuff, but then also um, you know, technical cover and everything else. So it'll be a lot of fun to have everyone out. Um so look forward to meeting other new people in Kansas City that I haven't had the privilege of meeting yet. Um, but yeah, should be a good time. We'll try and get together once a month or so and do some training out there.
SPEAKER_00:That's awesome, man. That's what we've been doing in the Birmingham chapter about once a month. Or yeah, at this point we've been doing once a month. Actually, uh had a new guy come out. He's actually not a new guy, he's been in Cornerstone for three or four years. Just the first time he's ever been able to come to one of the events. He was out here, his name's Riley. Great dude. Um, he was able to train with us this past weekend, and it man, it was a great training day. We did a mock hunt setup just kind of because we had some people getting ready to go do some goose and duck hunting. So I was like, man, let's make this fun. We'll put out the decoys, we'll go the whole nine yards. And it was fun. By the end of that day, I mean, especially in small groups, you know, member weekends amazing, and you would get, but there's 50, 60 plus dogs. When you and we still divide everybody up in groups, but at these training days, you know, you got four, five, six dogs. When you're in that type of group, the amount of work your dog gets is it's unbelievable, especially in two to three hours of training. That dog is going to get a lot, and yourself, you're gonna get a lot of work.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, well, and the big thing there is, you know, going back to bandwidth, right? Is even if you have that advanced dog, you put them in that environment where they're going to tend to want to be competitive. You're you can leapfrog a dog to a different level in a group training situation, right? As you know. Um, and I love watching that happen. You you go to a group training, and I remember being, you know, the guy that had never been to group training before, and then you take your dog, you're like, whoa, this dog's different now. Like, he's more focused than he's ever been. He's like he's more deliberate because there wasn't competition before, and I love that competitive aspect of a dog, um, but it can also be a negative thing, right? So that's the beautiful part of getting them introduced to being around multiple dogs before you go and hunt the dog with multiple dogs, right? Um and and that's a step that's missed, and then you have, you know, the good old-fashioned bird thief, right? You don't want that, right? So, no, it's uh there is nothing better for developing a dog um once you get to a more intermediate to advanced level than group training. It's fantastic.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I appreciate you for stepping up to the plate and leading that chapter because I know the people in the in the Kansas City area are going to be very grateful for that. It's uh like we just said, I mean, you can't get any better than training in a group of people and making things happen. Uh, we are up on time, so let's I want to end with what's your biggest, your last piece of advice if we could give one just strong nugget specifically to someone maybe getting started uh like yourself back in the day. Like what would you say, like, hey, here's my here's my one-minute spill, here's what you should do, uh, here's my encouragement for you.
SPEAKER_02:Consistency, right? So number one is consistency. Um, be consistent on training, be consistent on discipline, be consistent on reward. Uh everything is consistent for that dog every single day, right? As much time and as many people as you can get that dog around, do it. But be consistent. Just because you're in a crowd doesn't mean that they get to get away with things, right? Um, so pick your crowds wisely. Um, I wouldn't suggest uh an art fair to take your dog to for the very first time because you're probably gonna need to get after this puppy a bit, right? So um be intelligent about that, but consistent, right? Um anything you can do consistency-wise for a dog is going to pay dividends in the long run. So be consistent. And then if you don't know something, ask a question, right? And there's no better place to ask that question than in the cornerstone group where somebody that knows what they're doing is gonna get back to you.
SPEAKER_00:Man, good advice. I like it. And that, man, thanks for hopping on. I appreciate you and excited to see where the next seven to ten years goes here. We'll uh keep them excited about that pup you got back behind you. You get a legacy right there. We're gonna turn it into something and appreciate you for being on, man.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I appreciate you, Josh. Thanks for uh everything you guys do. Cornerstone's amazing. Thank you.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks for listening to the Build From Here podcast. To learn more about retriever training or our podcast, visit Cornerstone GundogAcademy.com slash podcast.