Build From Here
Build From Here
“What If I Fail?” to “Let’s Train Another Dog” | Chad Batton
Chad Batton’s story is one every handler can relate to: starting with doubt, feeling the pressure to “get it right,” and hoping to do justice to a well-bred dog. What began with a fear of failure quickly turned into a deep passion for training, community, and the entire retriever lifestyle. In this episode, Chad shares how Cornerstone Gundog Academy helped him build confidence, overcome defining moments like fetch-hold-release, and eventually discover the joy of training multiple dogs. His journey is honest, encouraging, and packed with insight for anyone on the path of building their first retriever.
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Podcast, podcast. Call the hunter and corner dog and lie. Gotcha apartment. That's the retriever honors. And the trials and trials that linked to a great gun dog. Build from here is presented by Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy. Online resources to help you train your retriever. Now your host. Gotcha apartment.
SPEAKER_01:Welcome to the Build From Here podcast. On this episode, it is my great honor to be bringing a longtime CGA member on. And whenever we get members that have been with us for this long, it literally just fires me up because it's, you know, I think back to the, you know, this time period when people were getting involved where Cornerstone was at at the time and compared to where we're at now. And uh I'll just say we definitely didn't have things together then, and we probably still don't have everything together perfectly now, but definitely not then. There were so many flaws and everything, but it's people like this that mean so much to us because they are they're the foundation, they're the building blocks, they're the ones who supported us when we're at the bottom, and now they continue to support us. And that just speaks volumes to me. It uh it's just a great honor to be supported by people like that. And everybody like that has a special place in my heart, just like every Cornerstone member. But uh, anyways, I'm excited to be introducing you to Cornerstone member Chad Batten. He's uh a great member again, been with us since July 4th of 2017. So very early on, we started in in 2017 publicly. We launched in 2016, the fall, November, around the Black Friday time period, we launched that to uh friends and family and then kind of rolled into that public launch there. But he's been with us that long and he's a great story, and I can't wait to share it with you. So without further ado, Chad, welcome aboard. We're glad you're here.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks for having me. I'm I'm excited to be here and excited to do this with you guys and uh kind of tell my story of uh my time through Cornerstone. So uh I'm excited.
SPEAKER_01:Well, that's awesome, man. Well, let's uh, as we always like to do, let's go back kind of pre-Cornerstone. I love to go to the roots because I think one common value we all share in Cornerstone is we're passionate. We're passionate about waterfowl hunting, we're passionate about our dogs. They're not just a tool, they're a family member. And um, so but all that starts somewhere, you know, and I want to know where that started for you. Did you know where's what's kind of your earliest memory of of hunting? What got you into into hunting? Was it uh a deer hunt? Was it a squirrel hunt? What you know, where where did it all begin if you if you have your earliest memory of hunting?
SPEAKER_02:Uh so my earliest memory doesn't go back too far. Um so I grew up just outside of Indianapolis and I was more of a city boy. Um I was in the sports and things like that. I uh I had no hunting um growing up. Uh nobody in my family, my dad was one of five boys, four farmers, had plenty of land. Um, but I just nobody hunted, and um it it just wasn't there for me. So um it was in college, um, I met my wife at Indiana University, Go Hoosiers, and uh and that was really, you know, she she lived down here in southern Indiana, um, is where she grew up, and her family had just moved back to their family farm. And uh her uncle was a big hunter, um, deer and waterfowl. And uh so towards the end of college I kinda decided, man, you know, it might be kind of fun to go out deer hunting. So uh I took a couple trips and drove down here and hunted a couple times my first year. Um never did see or kill anything, and I think I went the second year and never killed anything. Um and I was pretty discouraged, obviously. Um But then the next year um we had graduated college. Um I had taken a job down here, and so I moved on down, and um I still remember we laugh about it to this day. I was out deer hunting and um had an eight-point buck, not real big, uh, walk by and I shot and killed it. And uh I text my wife, I'm like, hey, I just killed a buck, and she's like, No, you didn't. And I'm like, I I did. Like, I said, but uh, I'm gonna need you to come help me. And uh he's like, seriously? I'm like, well, your uncle's gone. He uh he drove a UPS truck at night, and uh I was like, I'm gonna need some help back here, so I need you to get the tractor and drive it back here. And uh at the time she was laying down in bed with a migraine, and uh next thing I know, she shows up and she's on the tractor, and uh she shows up out there and she's got her Ug boots on and she's got these mittens on with fur around the top of it. And I'm like, oh man, this is not gonna be good, you know. And so this is something I'd never done, I'd never even seen it done. And she's like, What are we gonna do? I'm like, Well, I'm I'm gonna have you hold my phone and we're gonna watch a YouTube video on how to do this. And so we would we would piece it together, and she would hold the phone, and I'd watch a little bit of the YouTube video, and I'd I'd do what I needed to do, and we'd push play a little bit longer, and you know, eventually uh it was done. But uh yeah, that was my first experience right there of uh that and we still laugh about it to this day that she'd come out there in her Ug boots and her furry mittens and stuff, and the the mittens were ruined, they had blood all over them and everything. So uh that was my first experience uh hunting, and uh it's pretty unique.
SPEAKER_01:I've never heard of a story like that. That's uh that's still laugh about for sure.
SPEAKER_02:Um yeah. I mean I so from there, um I remember I'd go to some uh Ducks Unlimited banquets and stuff, um just because they were a good time. And and my wife's uncle, he was involved in them. And uh we'd go to him and stuff, and we'd talk about waterfowl hunting and stuff, and I'm like, man, I I there's just no way I'm getting up that early to go sit in the cold. I'm I'm not doing that, you know, and I thought he was crazy. And uh so then it was I believe 20 November of 2015. Um, I decided, you know, I'll go with you. I'll, you know, I'll go. So uh we went out there and uh I I can still see that wood duck flying in, and it it was coming right at us, and I swung up and to the left and I shot it, and it flew over and landed on the other side of the trees, and I was like, okay, this is pretty fun, you know? And uh we ended up killing four birds that day. I killed a hen wood duck and uh Gadwall, and uh nice that was the end of it. I was I was hooked, and it hasn't stopped since.
SPEAKER_01:I could tell when you told me that when you first went duck hunting, I'm like, man, you got bit hard because we're by July 4th, 2017, here you are training your own duck hunting dog. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I uh I got bit hard.
SPEAKER_01:And um so uh so you fell in love with the duck hunting, maybe even more so than the deer hunting and just I haven't deer hunted since.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. So um a lot of people ask me, oh yeah, you deer hunt and all that. And I'm like, no, I don't. Uh after I went duck hunting and spent that winter duck hunting, obviously, um, you know, the the ability to stand up, walk around, eat, have some coffee, you know, talk, have conversations and stuff like that, it just deer hunting was gone for me. Uh I didn't see a reason to do that anymore. Um, and obviously I didn't grow up deer hunting. You know, if I had a long history of it or something like that, um, I probably would have stuck with it, but it it just it it didn't compare to the waterfowl world, that's for sure.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, that's awesome, man. So when you were uh if for like a lot of first hunters, first time waterfowl hunters, and I think back to my time, you know, what what was that experience like? I mean, obviously you remember seeing that first wood duck come through. I mean, I feel like a lot of us, you know, especially if you're deer hunter first and you become a waterfowl, you're all we're all reluctant thinking, man, why is is this going to be fun? I'm just shooting at a bird flying through the air. But then you get out there at all the different sights, the sounds, hearing the wings, all that, man, it just it gets you. It's something that really uh gets after you. Was there anything that stood out to you specifically from that hunt that was it just all of it together, the camaraderie that made you fall in love with it? What what was kind of just yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Um it it just kind of all fell to girl fell together. It was just a perfect storm. Um, you know, seeing those birds come in and seeing them work and and watching him use a call and and how he could call at these birds. And and then when you um, you know, obviously I didn't have any of that hunt where you get them backpedaling and and you know they're locked up and it's like, man, this is just awesome. But it's it's more than just it's more than just the hunting aspect too. It's just being out there in nature and you know, waking up with the sun and waking up with the birds and and just seeing all that. And um where we hunt is uh fishing wildlife area. I'm lucky it's five miles away from the house. Um, you know, they got 1800 acres of water and 8,000 acres of land to use. And and so we go over there and hunt, and you know, I can be there in no time. Uh, but it's just the bald eagles, you know, flying over, and it's you know, like I said, waking up with the birds, seeing the sunrise in the fall, seeing the sun hitting the leaves, and that's things that a lot of people don't get to see. And and you know, that really that's as much of the hunt as the actual hunting part of.
SPEAKER_01:Build from here is brought to you by Retriever Training Supply. Build unforgettable moments with your retriever and equip yourself with the tools to create a lifetime of joy and discovery with your dog. Retriever Training Supply offers the tools you need to train your retriever with confidence. To shop now, visit Retriever Training Supply.com so that you can strengthen your bond, inspire new adventures, and train with confidence, knowing you have the right tools for your retriever. Yeah. Oh man, I love it. Makes me want to go out right now. Yeah. Yeah. And not too far. Where did uh I mean I know. I mean, goodness, it's uh literally a week or two. It was so close. Where did the dog come into the picture? Was your uncle a dog guy, or you know, where where did the dogs come into the picture?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so um shortly after that year, I um I grew up with a chocolate lab. Um, had a couple chocolate labs growing up, never hunting dogs or anything, just you know, pets. And uh I can remember old Sadie, uh, she carried a softball, uh hard softball in her mouth. She slept with it in her mouth, and her teeth were like grinded down where that ball ball sat in her mouth. And it just sat there perfectly. And that girl, she could she would retrieve a ball as long as you would throw it, I promise. And uh so I was I thought, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna go get a chocolate lab because you know I'm duck hunting now, and I'd love to, you know, see a dog work. Um at this time I hadn't seen one. He didn't have a dog. Um in the past he had had a a Chesapeake, and um I don't know specifically the training level if there was any training done. I've heard stories of carrying stones in his pocket and they'd shoot a bird and throw a rock out there and the dog swim out to the rock and then they'd wind it and he'd just go pick the bird up. So I I think that was the extent of training on on his dog. Um, but uh so he at the time he didn't have a dog or anything. And I thought, you know, I'm gonna I'm gonna get a dog and and see what we can do here. So um I picked up Nellie, she was a chocolate lab and a German short hair mix. It was just an oopsie um that I had found. And uh I was one of the German short hair too. And unfortunately, she had a lot more German short hair to her than she did retriever. Uh so um that kind of kicked off my journey. I still thought at the time I'm gonna try training her and stuff, and I I had no experience, obviously, um, new to the hunting world and stuff. And um I I was trying to, you know, look through YouTube and stuff, like all the resources we have today, and I found I came across uh a guy, Cody Bellinger, and he had a series that he was starting called Training with Gypsy. And uh it was kind of similar to CGA, but he was just doing it on on YouTube, and I thought I'm gonna do some of this. So I started working with my dog and stuff, and and she did all right and stuff, but like I said, she had a lot more German short hair to her than she did retriever. Um so uh that series I don't think lasted too long, but that series led me to Southern Oak because he had gotten Gypsy through Barton somehow, somehow. Um so I had found Southern Oak Kennels, and uh I started following them, and I was like, man, these dogs are pretty amazing, you know? And uh followed them for a while, and uh my first dog, she didn't quite work out. She picked up a bird or two, but she she was very short hair and she didn't handle the cold well and all that type of stuff. So um I thought I'm gonna I'm gonna get a Southern Oak dog. So uh started talking to my wife and stuff, and uh at the time we had one kid already, he was about a year old, and we knew we were planning on two kids and stuff, and she's like, you know, I just I think we need to wait until we have that second kid so that he can grow up with the with the dog as well, and you know, so all the kids can have the bond with the pup as well and stuff. I was like, okay, I said, uh, well, we're planning on having one here, you know, in the next year or so. How about I go ahead and put a deposit down? So she's like, hey, that's fine, you know, if you want to put a deposit down. So art of the deal.
SPEAKER_01:The art of the deal right there. I like it.
SPEAKER_02:So December of 2018, I put a deposit down on my dog for 2021. It was a three-year wait. Um, and at this time, um through Southern Oak, I had already found CGA and uh, you know, signed up for you guys because I needed to prepare for the next three years before this dog came home, you know. So uh I I I was trying to gain the knowledge and everything now um at the time and and before the puppy came home. So um finally she came home in October of 2021. And um then I trained her and I met some some great people. Um were my good buddies, you know him, Kevin Reich. Uh absolutely he uh we got litter mates, and um I met him, I reached out to him, he's on CGA, and uh I saw we we were litter mates, so I reached out and you know said, Hey, I think we got siblings here, and to this day we still uh we talk every day and uh we talk about our dogs and uh we uh took a trip last year, hunted down in uh southeast Arkansas, and um I'm hoping to make a trip down there to his hunting club this year and uh hunt the girls together, and and uh so I've met some great people just through this and through that, and it all comes back to the community. Um, but so I finished her up, and uh it's a long dog story, but so uh no, I love it. I finished her up and I I had bit the bug so hard in dog training and I loved it so much, I was like, what am I gonna do now? And uh so I started hounding my wife. I'm like, hey, look, like I I think I need another dog now. And she's like, what? I'm like, I I just really think I need another one because I need to start another dog, and I just love doing it. And and she saw the passion that I had for it, and and she knew that I loved doing it. And you know, I was outside every day, I was home with my dogs and stuff, and uh, and so finally I said, I need a black one because I got brown and yellow already. I need a black one to go with it. And uh one day she came and and I'd I after months of asking about it, she finally said, Hey, either you need to buy this black dog or I'm buying a new car. And I was like, All right, done deal. And so I reached out to a guy and I put my deposit down on my black dog, Belle, and she came home in July of 2023. So that's how I ended up with my dogs that I got in the house. So um, it's been quite the journey.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I love that story, man. That's uh timing is everything. You've got that figured out. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. And that's oh man. But I I bit the bug in the training world so hard and and I fell in love with it. I really developed a passion. Um, you know, when I was young, I was really involved in sports, and and to this day I still hold a really competitive edge to myself. And uh, so this allowed me to kind of get back into competition and and challenging myself um to make myself better, to make the dogs better. And that's kind of where this has taken me is to um help my competitive nature.
SPEAKER_01:Um I love that, man. Well, let's go to where you see you got the first dog, some challenges just wasn't what you were looking for. Right. That happens with a lot of people, right? Sometimes we don't know fully what we're looking for. And so we just get starting started, and then maybe we get the dog or that we want, maybe we don't, if you know, if you don't know what to choose. Then let's start with a training journey where you started falling in love with it. Let's go to the first dog, actually. Starting with a YouTube series. Um, is that where you started to fall in love with it? You clearly you like you had enough intrigue after that that you're like, you know, let's let's go further. Let's you know, let's get this course, let's start trying to learn to train this dog, and then let's get a you know another dog that we can actually turn into something.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I mean that's where I started to develop a love for. And uh, you know, I saw little things in her, and like I s at the time I was so raw I didn't really know a whole lot. And I'm trying to follow this little YouTube series, and and uh a lot of it is exactly how CGA starts out with your basics and and your fundamentals and and building that good base to build off of. And uh, you know, she she did fine with it. She was she was a good dog and stuff, and and but I just I started to see things in her and I'm like this you know, at the time I didn't know genetics. Um, you know, I just thought you could you could go get a dog and and make it what you want it to be. Um you know, I didn't understand all that at the time. And then um I thought, you know what? I found CGA and stuff and I thought I need to go find a dog with the genetics with with everything that is there. And um that's where I found Barton in Southern Oak and uh reached out to him and uh got on got on a litter um from S O K Fox Ridge with Miles, and um I knew when she came home, I knew it was different. Um you know, at eight weeks old, you can tell it's this dog's different. And um genetics maybe.
SPEAKER_01:You've already had a little experience, right? You're taking it even more serious, yeah. You even paid paid for the the videos, yeah, jumping all in. What was kind of the big factor for you? You just really wanted it to turn out and just give it all, give the dog all that it deserves. What was kind of like like, hey, I need to, you know, not just use YouTube, I need to go all in here. What was the determining factor there?
SPEAKER_02:It kind of goes back to like a semi-competitive nature and and failing, fear of failure. Uh honestly, it's the fear of failure. And uh that's not something I like to do. Uh, you know, I don't want to fail at anything I do. Um, and I knew I had to get better. Um so uh when I found CGA and I started kind of watching the course and and seeing this, I'm like, hey, you know, I think this is this is what I need right here. Um they're gonna they're gonna teach me how to be a handler, and through that I can teach the dog to be the dog that I want. Um so I I took the leap. I took the leap and uh spent the money, and it's probably the best money I've ever spent. Um so um right there it it was it was honestly I think it was the fair fail sorry fear of failure. And uh so uh, you know, that's not something I that's a real thing, right?
SPEAKER_01:I mean because you've already you had a situation that didn't turn out exactly like you want, but now it really is bigger, like you've invested a lot in this dog. Right. The the dogs aren't inexpensive and that's potential that the dog has, right? Because you said genetics. We all know if you're buying a well-bred dog, the potential that's sitting there. I've heard a lot of people say it this way to me, like, you know, I I just want to make sure I do justice. I want to do right by this dog because I know that it's it could do it. I just want to make sure that I'm able to do it.
SPEAKER_02:Right. And that's I mean, these dogs, when you pay and for the genetics and and they're bred to do this, it's all in there. You just have to unlock it and find a way to communicate with them and you know, teach them that hey, you guys got this in you, let's just refine it. And uh so I wanted, like you said, to do the dog justice, um, and I was scared to fail. Um, so I uh bought CGA and and like I said, I put in the work uh to find success.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome. Where where along the way did you meet um Kevin? How how long did it take for you guys to connect up and build a friendship?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so uh right after it wasn't long after, I don't believe, um, that we picked up, I I kind of reached out to him. I seen him in CGA and I was like, hey, uh we got litter mates and stuff, and and right then, you know, it took off, hey, every day talking, hey, how how's your pup doing, you know? Hey, what what are you working on? Are you seeing any challenges? Uh, you know, all this. And then it came to um fall. It'd been, I I believe the first members weekend, a fall members weekend, or the last fall members weekend you guys had. It was the last fall members weekend you guys had. I said, huh? Or, you know, we talked about it and we decided to both go. And uh he rented this uh little place down there called the Tin Can that we stayed in. And uh yeah, so uh we we met up down there in Nashville. I'm in southern Indiana, so he's not too far, a couple of three hours or so. And uh we met up down there with uh Kevin and Ben, and uh we kind of all drove down uh in a convoy and followed each other down there, and uh so we went to Members Weekend that time and met a lot of great people, and that really I think kicked off the friendship and everything. And uh I I'm honored to call him a good friend. Uh there's been plenty of times I've relied on him to in situations and he's he's contacted me in situations. I've been to Nashville and met up with him and stuff. So um we we really have a a good friendship, probably as close as an Indiana Hoosier and a Kentucky Wildcat can be.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, Kevin's laughing as he's listening to this right now. I know it. Uh that's awesome, man. Yeah, that's one of the things we didn't think about when starting cornerstone like we just started out thinking, yeah, hey, let's help people train their dogs, right? Because it's a real thing, it's a real problem, and people aren't getting the results they need. And so we wanted to help people do that. But one thing we didn't foresee was the whole community aspect. Um the the hear stories like this, to hear how you guys have built that connection, strong friendship. I mean, that is so cool because that carries on for years and and generations. And like I think that's to me, that's one of my favorite parts here about what we get to do and is connect with people and help other people connect.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Absolutely. And um, you know, when I talk to people about Cornerstone, I'm like, you know, the biggest thing is the community and use it, you know. If you use the community, um, there's answers out there for everything. And everyone within the CGA community is great about jumping on to help you um in any way they can. You know, if you're facing a situation, I'm not sure how many members you guys have now, but I'm sure there's somebody out there that has faced that situation and they're gonna give you a different angle to look at. And you know, that could be what solves your issue.
SPEAKER_01:So yeah, 100%. Going back to one of the things I want to go on some now dive back into your dog training journey of actual, let's get into some training stuff.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:The fear of failure, you decided to jump in. We wanna, we wanna fix that. Now, even with the course, there's still gonna be challenges pop up. Like you said, hey, there's something pops up you can ask in the community. But the reality of training a dog is there's gonna be days where you look at this dog and think, I don't know if this is gonna work out right. What let's go to maybe one of the challenges that was kind of that that you faced that you were able to overcome. And I would love to just talk through that because part of what we do here at Corinth Some 2 is be authentic. Let's be real, man. What did you face? How did we overcome that? What was some of the big learn lessons that you were able to overcome?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, so you know, um when I first started, I thought with Charlie, uh, she was the first dog I put through CGA, and uh I thought, you know what, like this is simple, this is easy, you know? And uh it was it was about the time I reached fetch hold release, and that seems to be the number one sticker on everybody. Um that's one of the key things you see every time you get on. Hey, I've reached fetch hold release and my dog won't hold it.
SPEAKER_01:And um, so I remember I was a defining moment because it's like, oh my gosh, if my dog doesn't hold this, is this all for nothing? And then everybody panics.
SPEAKER_02:And if you if you listen to other podcasts and you listen to read other books and stuff like that, like you said, it's a defining moment in your training right there. And you don't want to do it wrong. And uh it can be scary, and honestly, it it can be scary. And and I think that was the biggest thing leading up to it, is I would I was worried about coming into it. And um, so I remember picking up the phone and calling Miles, and I'm like, hey, you know, I'm I'm reaching fetch hole release. And I I seriously considered sending her off to him to get through that part of the training because I was worried about messing it up. And um he kind of talked me through it, and he's like, you know, it it's not that big big of a deal. Um you know, these dogs, Charlie, she I could throw anything, she's gonna pick it up and hold it and carry it, you know. And and so it was there. Um, and it goes back to again communication. I had to find a way to communicate to her that, hey, this is what I want you to do with it. You have it there, you already do it. Let's just refine it and make it a little better. And so um I took off on it, and you know, honestly, it was like I said, I think it was my body language, my worriness that she fed off of. You know, I I think she fed off of that, and and you know, dogs feed off of your body energy, um, things like that. So uh when we would approach a session, I could feel myself start to get frustrated those first few reps, and you're trying to do get her to bite on it, and and there's nothing there. She's like, What do you want me to do? You know, throw it on the ground, I would run over and pick it up. But when you're holding it in front of their face and I want you to reach out and you know, bite it. And they're not doing it, and instantly the frustration starts to kick in. And it's easy to get frustrated with these dogs. And I know I've heard I've heard Barton say it many times, and it's one of the best lessons I've heard, is when you start to get frustrated, just stop. Walk away and and come back another day. Um, because when you start to get frustrated and and your dog starts to feel that frustration, all you're gonna do is one, you're gonna do something you don't want to do. Two, you're gonna create that anxiety within the dog that is gonna lead to other issues down the road, and you're gonna end up going backwards. So, you know, when you start to feel that frustration, just walk away. Come back later, come back tomorrow. Your dog is going to be fine not training for a day, two days, three days, four days. We know how they retain information. So uh when I approach that, that was my biggest challenge was you know, fetch hold release and just slowing down, slowing down through it, yeah, enjoying the process of fetch hold release. It is a process. The whole program is a process, and you have to approach it as a process. Um, I think a lot of people get caught up in seeing these projects. trainers and stuff and and they whip dogs out in no time and they think that's what they need to do. That's not what you need to do. You need to enjoy the process, take your time and and I think when everybody can do that and and you enjoy it and you have a good time doing it, it leads to a much better dog.
SPEAKER_01:Wow. That's pretty profound.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah so eventually we worked and I took my time with it and stuff and and you know like I said communication and consistency once that was all there, you know, it and she figured it out, we just flew right through it.
SPEAKER_01:So wow. You know it's uh I'm I'm glad you brought all that up. I mean you really I don't think I could say it any better but we will kind of dive into that like you know when people face problems right a lot of times we fixate on the problem and then we just keep trying to hammer out and fix the problem.
SPEAKER_03:Right.
SPEAKER_01:And sometimes and I wouldn't I might I might as go I might go as far to say as oftentimes that makes a problem worse. Like you said taking that step back. I like how you phrase that learning to enjoy that part of the process enjoy the challenges you're facing instead of viewing it as a a task it now becomes just a way of life hey this is part of the process we're going to enjoy that and would you say that when all that shifted is kind of your mindset shifted is when things kind of breezed on and then y'all cruise right on through?
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely and and I mean that's not the only time I found myself frustrated or you know anything like that. And you know I I listen to a lot of podcasts I I read books things like that and and try to take things from many people and and that's what like you said just that relaxation and that's when it all kind of flipped like hey this is a process relax enjoy it because like we said earlier I I'm not doing it to rush a dog through I'm not doing it as a career or anything like that. You know I'm doing it as a hobby to enjoy myself to enjoy being outdoors with the dogs um so that was kind of my my thinking of it all I love it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah I would say I want to pull out something else you said there just for the people listening because you just said so many good things that are really just crucial to like being truly successful dog training. One of the other things I want to pull out is um is the mindset component you said that the dogs are going to feed off of you. They're going to feel what you do. And so stepping back to focus on enjoying is key but that gets down to what you're thinking about. You know if you're thinking about you you said another thing you know if you if you keep training when you're frustrated you're going to do something you shouldn't do. And where does frustration come from? That comes from what you're thinking about right you're looking at this dog like you should be holding this why are you not getting this you got everything else so well why is this a problem? And you start so you start questioning and asking all these questions and start to get frustrated and it comes back to mentally, you know, a big thing that we try to talk about a lot is mentally making sure that your head is in the right space. I don't have a problem with questions or or being frustrated but the season and the time that you do it is important. If it's during the training session that's a no-go you got to have your mind right during the training session. Yeah you could be frustrated as mess after the training session once a dog is in its kennel and you're away from it and it's not going to sense your frustration sure go ahead be frustrated then pull your hair out then don't do it in the session don't let on to that and that all for me I don't know about for you and I'd love to know some of uh some ways that you navigate around it but for me that comes down to focusing on what I'm thinking about in the training session. So rather than I and rather than asking the question man why are you not getting this I'm thinking okay what angle can I approach with this dog to maybe help it take the next step. I'm not even focused on getting the completion of the whole behavior right that is causing the frustration. I'm just focused on can I get a step in the right direction and if it's fetch on release and the dog is not wanting to grab the bumper can I at least get the dog to sniff the bumper right that's why I start thinking about upon and that becomes my focus and then boom we got that I move on to the next thing and I have found that that drastically speeds up things up for me. But for you along that process it sounded like community miles and reaching out to others was a big component and realizing okay maybe I everything is okay like we're going to be okay. I guess what for you was the big concern, the frustration it comes back to that fear of failure like you come to this defining moment like, what if I fail what if this dog doesn't work out you're even considering sending the dog off is what was there anything that you can recall that was a big perspective shift specifically or was there any things that were you when you're in the training session you started thinking differently kind of like I was just saying or maybe it was what I was just saying. I'm just I'm just curious to hear from your perspective.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah I mean it's similar to kind of what you were saying and and through reading and things like that you understand you have to understand how the dog learns. And um so when that frustration starts to hit it's typically it's because the dog's not performing the way you want it to perform. But that's not the dog's fault. More than likely it's because you haven't adequately taught the skill yet you know have I not adequately taught the skill or is it is it due to the distraction level for the skill level that we're on right now. So you have to kind of break it down can I simplify the skill and I think that's kind of what you were saying is when you're in a process and you know the dog won't bite the bumper hey can I get a nose touch. So you're starting to break it down you're starting to simplify things to find that win to get success. And that's kind of what you got to do to help your frustration level is find success. Because when you find success you're not frustrated right and so um you got to simplify the behavior or you got to take the distraction away if the skill is there more than likely the distraction's too high for where we are in the training program. So um usually you can navigate between either simplifying it or removing distractions um to make sure that the behavior of the dog is there and and teaching it the proper way. So that's doing that doing that is going to bring your frustration level down and like you said when when you when you get done with your training session I like to I video myself a lot and I want to go back and watch and look at things and you might pick up on something hey you know that's why right there that she did this. Hey that's why she did that and you can look at it and be like man that was my fault you know I got I got frustrated with the dog but that was my fault. And so you can be frustrated at yourself later but there's no reason during training to be frustrated and if it is like I said just walk away you know your dog that dog I can tell you 100% of the time that dog wants to do what you want it to do. You know it doesn't matter what the skill is that dog wants you to do wants to do what you want it to do but the number one thing between me and that dog is communication. That dog doesn't understand what I'm telling it to do. It doesn't understand the English language you know it associates a word with a skill and eventually that skill is associated with that word. So it wants to do whatever it is you want it to do it's you gotta you gotta communicate it and find a way to communicate that skill to that dog with that word so that it can learn that's cool. Man did you ever think you'd know this much about dog training no I love it man you're laying the gauntlet down I mean you're giving some good advice I meet I meet random people on the streets and and start talking about dogs I'm like man you really just opened up a can right there like we're gonna be here a while and stuff. So uh you know I I just love it and I I love every aspect of it um it keeps me learning and um I continue to you know pick up a book here or pick up a book there or listen to podcasts and things like that because I feel like if I'm not learning or continuing to learn or or shape my program then I'm doing a disservice to the dog um you know because I got I got to make myself better and the only way to make myself better is to keep learning.
SPEAKER_01:So I love it. That's awesome man. I I'm proud of you for what you're saying here. That makes me you know feel good about you know helping you along the journey. Obviously you know we're not the only reason you've been successful the community the people around you that's a big part there's so many components that have to come together um but just hearing what you're saying and the advice you're sharing I know people out there listening to this I know they should be able to appreciate it you know and sometimes you don't know until you just start doing what you're doing then you realize how profound the things you just said are and how you know impactful they are because they they really do make a big difference.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah um so let's go on to the next phase in the in the journey in the story you you get breakthrough you you crush the barrier you're now on your way when was kind of one of those first moments especially contrasting to your first dog you're like wow I really think we've got something you're like we're really moving you know where I want to be like we're getting close to getting to where I want to be what was there a specific moment that stood out to you uh with the second dog here I mean there's not really a specific moment um but I know once we got past fetch hold release work and we moved into uh doing some handling and things like that I was like okay this this is fun now you know and and I I absolutely love the the puppy stage um I love the transition work all that I love that phase because it's your your reward and success is seen dang near every day you know you you see a dog learning and picking up and you're like man this is awesome once you get more advanced and stuff it might be a month or two months down the road before all of a sudden it clicks on that dog and you're like okay you know and so your success has become less and less you know but um yeah there I think when I once I got into handling and stuff like that and and started to see those light bulbs clicking on for her and kind of she's thinking okay you know like this is fun and uh she's a she's a high powered dog as you can probably imagine from Kevin's dog you've you've seen this Mabel a lot they are a lot alike and uh so she is a girl that wants to go she wants to work and so when I got her out and was able to start stretching her out and doing some things uh she really started to flourish and I remember there was a time I I reached out to Miles I'm like hey like this just doesn't seem to be working and he's like well think of it like this you know you're you're doing something that is monotonous with a high powered dog that uh think of it as when you were playing sports and the season just started and you have a month and a half of practice and you don't ever get to play a game and you just got to practice practice practice you want to play a game right and so these dogs are like okay you know after two weeks of doing the same thing it's like what are we doing here? Like you know so I figured out with her the best thing to do was to kind of keep moving and and continue to keep kind of refining the previous things but to kind of keep moving because it it kept her mind going and kind of kept her mind fresh. And so that that seemed to be what really worked for her because she was she was a lot of dog and she wanted to go and uh it it kept her going and kind of thinking she was playing the game rather than just practicing all the time. So um but definitely getting into handling and stuff that was that was when I seen her like okay this is this is gonna be fun and uh I thought the same thing I love that.
SPEAKER_01:And you know I'm glad you answered that question. That was fantastic. But also you just said something else that I kind of want to unpack a little more is the keeping moving thing. I think a lot of times that this isn't just a journey to see if your dog is going to turn out I think this is a journey for us as trainers like do I have what it takes? And a lot of times sometimes we doubt ourselves or because we especially if you've never done it before, you know, we we downplay it we question ourselves too much and we hold the dog back when in reality as you said I found that if I kept the dog moving forward that things went better. And a lot I think the reason we hold the dog back at times is not because we don't think the dog is good enough. We start to question are we good enough or am I doing a good enough job? Because we don't want to move too fast because we don't want to miss something. Yeah so you just said I just wanted to highlight that because that was that was a good that was a good thing to be said there.
SPEAKER_02:And and it's cliche everybody says train the dog in front of you. And you know that was what I found worked best for my dog. It's not going to work best for everybody everybody but I found that was what was going to work best for her. She was a dog that wanted to go and and wanted to move and so I found that if I continue to work forward I could continue to improve the skills previously taught because the way the system's built up that you guys have have done a nice job of building where it builds on top of each other and each skill builds on top of each other. So even though you're moving forward you're still working on those previous skills that are still there. And yeah I mean like I said every dog's different uh my second dog Belle she came along she was a lot less fiery she was a a very soft dog Charlie is absolutely the most hard headed dog and so uh they are they are you gotta love those hard headed dogs. Yeah they are complete opposites of each other and um it's been fun that I I I'm glad that's how it ended up too with them being complete opposites because it's it's helping me as a trainer learn how to train different types of dogs. And so I mean I I'm glad I had the high power dog before I had the soft dog because I think if I had the soft and slower dog first that high powered dog would have come along and it would have really shook me. So I'm glad it worked out the way it did.
SPEAKER_01:That's awesome man. This is just you're this is incredible. I'm loving this your stories man and they're they're just so powerful.
SPEAKER_02:Let's go to us uh the first okay so you did the the handling the light bulbs are clicking let's let's go to when it probably really quick clicked the first few hunts or so let's talk about that experience what was that like was it a challenge was it awesome like what happened it was uh awesome so as you can imagine here in southern Indiana we don't have the best duck hunting um it's I mean it's it's just not we don't we don't have very many birds um back in the day from the way my wife's uncle talks you know they had they had quite a few birds come through the area and and hunting was a lot better so uh I still remember the first day um we drove over to Glendale um we there was 21 parties there that day um which is a pretty good number for there and we drew 18th out of 21 parties and uh wow luckily we picked a spot that we kind of knew uh that tends to hold birds and I knew this was Charlie's first hunt and I thought man if I could just I hope we can put a few birds in her mouth you know just to do her justice so uh we uh we get in that boat and we start heading out and and Glendale is full of tree stumps and um thankfully he has been driving that lake for probably as many years as I've been alive and he knows his way around it and it's really impressive. However uh I think he was sitting in the back of the boat and he couldn't see the guy in the front of the boat and it was so foggy that you couldn't see anything. So there were no trees to help guide yourself. And uh so we start going out poor visibility right there very very and so we start going out and uh we're driving and he's driving where he thinks he's going and he's like well it should be kind of over here and so I pulled up my phone thank goodness for cell phones these days I pulled up my phone and I was like uh Jay we're going the complete opposite way we were going north and we should have been going south and we had got spun around and so I I pulled out my phone and I pulled up the compass and we navigated with the compass to get to our spot and so we got to our spot and we got set up and stuff and uh it was shortly after shooting light and you and I love a good foggy hunt keeps the birds nice and low and you know keeps them in there and uh better hide hiding for you you know and uh all of a sudden the teal they wanted back in this cove we were in and they started buzzing in and I mean they came and they came one after another and uh I remember that first retrieve we knocked one down and and she sat over there and I released her and she took off and she went out there and she picked it up and come right back and I thought okay you know the the monkey's off the shoulder here now you know and uh I thought okay so the first few retrieves and stuff you know I I just I was focused on her and making sure um she was doing what she needed to do and uh she was ready that she was 100% ready um she picked up a couple cripples I remember uh she had a couple cripples something she had never seen before um and and it was funny to watch you know that first few times that that bird dives on that dog and they're like whoa you know and they pick their head up and spin around like where'd that thing go? So it that was fun to watch um end up picking up 15 birds that day and uh it was the best hunt I had ever had at Glendale and that was her very first hunt and uh man I I I couldn't have been more proud of her the guys I was hunting with were extremely proud of her to the point that now uh my wife's uncle tells my wife that if anything ever happens to us, make sure that she gets the dogs. So wow we we were pretty ecstatic and uh she's done nothing but get better since so I I'm really happy with her and she she has she has been great and uh all due to cornerstone.
SPEAKER_01:Man and the work you put in and and just being a a follower of the process like you said you've you've used the word process a couple of times and I think you're the people that understand that it is a process like just go through it. It will turn you out a good dog in the end if you just do it. You're gonna face challenges that happens. That's going to happen along the way. Don't quit when you face challenges keep going through the process and it and it works out. That's an incredible story I mean an incredible first hunt 15 birds and the first one I mean thought the relief you know you get because I mean that's kind of the interesting thing about this dog training journey I mean it's almost a gamble in a sense like you know it's going to work we know it's going to work out but you're looking at one to two years before you know if this thing ever works out like you want it to yeah it's a faith journey too it takes faith in the process.
SPEAKER_02:It is and I mean you know there there's more than just birds to it uh you know it's about being outdoors and and spending time um and you know if I couldn't go hunt my dogs uh I would I would still enjoy being outside training with them um you know it gets me outside gets me active things like that so um obviously the birds are are the icing on the top um and getting to watch that dog perform uh I I still think about it and I tell my wife the first few hunts I I took her out there and she was fine and and I'd send her after a bird and she'd come back and I'd send her after a bird and she'd come back and it's like 45 degrees out and she's sitting over there just shaking it as fast as she can shake and I'm like I just I don't know if she's cold or you know this is my first dog. I'm like I don't know if she's cold or what the problem is but she will just trim her and uh so I got to looking around and it was just obviously it was just adrenaline. She was full of adrenaline she just wanted to go so I was telling my wife about this and then uh she was like are you sure she's not cold and I'm like no this is adrenaline like this girl is ready. So we went to a hunt test and she went with me and I pulled that dog out of the truck and she was tremoring just as fast as she could tremor and it was you know it was 70 degrees or something and my wife seen it she's like holy cow like she really does you know I'm like yeah like she loves it you know and uh it's it's funny to watch how dogs learn and how they do that you know if I walk out in the garage at four o'clock in the morning that it's amazing how fast they pop up because they know hey it it's way too early for me to be waking up we must be going hunting and and you know they pick up on that type of stuff and it's it's amazing how quick dogs learn and and how they are able to distinguish that type of stuff and I mean it truly is it's uh I love it man and I I love seeing the dogs win I love seeing handlers win and it's just incredible.
SPEAKER_01:So y'all have had you years of great hunting since and you you've got another dog you've trained in the process. What is what does life look like now for you guys?
SPEAKER_02:I know you you've got a family y'all are busy is the family involved with training at all or is it kind of something you do how how does all that goes I mean mainly it's me doing the training and stuff but uh my boys uh they're eight and six years old um they are outdoorsmen through and through um they live down at the pond we we're lucky to live here on 80 acres uh mostly farm ground uh but we uh we have about 20 to 25 acres of hay and grass you know um with about a two and a half three acre pond so um the kids are are spoiled rotten you know they live down at the pond they're they're big fishermen stuff like that and they've caught more seven eight pound bass than I could ever dream of so and and the amazing thing is they do it on hot dogs. Um I I keep joking that they have these fish trained that I take these bait casters and fish with these fancy baits and stuff and I can't catch a single one but they'll go down there and catch an eight pound bass on a hot dog like it's nothing. So but they they're outdoors when they're out outside through and through um there it's nothing for when I'm out training sometimes they'll walk up and you know they want to run the dog and and do stuff. And so it you know family is involved um the the dogs are the best uh baseball retrievers ever you know uh the kids enjoy hitting golf balls and so they sit the dogs on place and and they'll sit out there for half hour to an hour hitting golf balls and you know the dogs go pick them up for them they don't have to walk that's awesome they you know it's things like that and but they're they're definitely involved and um we love our dogs dearly absolutely oh man that's so cool life is so full every moment matters and it's so beautiful I love that and this year uh this year was the first time I've got to take my boys on their first duck hunt so uh really wow um they've been with me you know just sitting in the blind and stuff but uh this year they got to go and uh took my oldest on first day we seen a lot of birds um we just didn't get anything in close enough for him to be able to fire a shot but uh so we didn't get anything that day so the second day I packed up my youngest and uh took him out to a little pond that I knew about and I was hoping that we could get something in there and uh boy the wood ducks start coming hot and heavy early and and got one right in there right in front of him and he jumped up and the smile on his face when he fired that gun. And uh I'm not sure how many of them he hit but he told me he killed two out of the four. So uh and I know he was right on them so maybe it was him but uh just getting to spend that time and I know there's many many years ahead of me sharing the blind with both of them and and the dogs and I know I'm really looking forward to it and I know they are too I love that man and that and that's what it's about too not just you know way way we say it at a retriever train supplies build unforgettable moments with your retriever.
SPEAKER_01:But those moments really involve family they involve other people friends family the whole nine yards um and this is I mean like you said your boys are are blessed to have this because like I mean to have well trained dogs no not everybody gets that and to have that experience to where when we go hunting we've got a dog that picks it up because you dad did a good job training you're kind of modeling the way and and one of our hopes too is that in in producing those good dogs is we in will inspire future generations to do the same and you know applaud you for doing that because you clearly are inspiring them to do that. That's something they're probably going to want to carry on one day when it makes sense. You know at this point they're taking it all in but one of these days it's gonna be like yeah I've got to have a dog too and then it's gonna be their turn to pick up the torch and and start training a dog themselves.
SPEAKER_02:That's gonna be cool. I'm I'm excited about it. Yeah what my oldest he actually he wants when he grows up he wants to be a conservation officer with a cannife wow and uh so I thought you know that that would be awesome to be able to be a part of and uh he's actually he's joined the 4H uh he runs my my black dog in 4 H, um dog of obedience and agility. So um you know he's involved there and and does stuff with her and stuff. So um like I said it's you know being able to carry on generations I know my wife's uncle uh he didn't have no kids or nothing like that. So when I was able to join him on the hunt and stuff you know I I know it probably really sparked his eye because now he's got somebody that he can count on to go hunting with and and pass his legacy of hunting on to and now his great nephews are going to be able to enjoy that as well. So it's like you said it's it's a family aspect dogs, CGA, everything you know it's all about family and community and building things together.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah that that's what it's about and maybe everybody listening let's let's try to take someone new hunting. I I think back to early I was young in school and I had a buddy who didn't hunt but he was interested in it. And so we uh I think we went up to deer hunt in Kentucky if I remember correctly and uh now he's hooked now this was we we were very young my dad encouraged his dad brought them along and they're hooked on hunting now they've been hunting for years and now they're into waterfowl and everything too and it's uh he even trained dogs with me for a little while it's uh so just getting that one hunt is oftentimes all it takes to get some hooked for for life.
SPEAKER_02:One hunt yeah I uh I have a guy I work with and uh he uh he went hunting with me one year he's like hey uh you know I might go on a waterfowl hunt with you and and I took him out there and we had a really nice hunt killed a handful of birds and stuff and uh I think that next spring he was he was looking for a yellow lab. He was like man that was awesome.
SPEAKER_01:You know and so he found one and I was like hey you know send her over I'll I'll help turn her up and so we got her worked up and stuff and now he he just got uh a puppy so uh I'm wow I got her every other day when he's at work and uh so we're working through her so oh man I love that well continuing the legacy that's what it's about and helping other people win and just having a good time but man uh Chad this has been an amazing podcast I feel like you shared just so many like we if if people will take what you said and listen to that like that's gonna make a big difference for them. It just reminds me of some lessons that are just so crucial for us to all learn and and to remember even for myself to make sure we're remembering those things. Slow down, enjoy it. Have fun. Absolutely don't rush the process trust the process all all these different nuggets that you shared are just fantastic. I can't even believe we're coming up on time here. I would love just to know like if you think back maybe one more piece of advice or maybe not even a piece of advice just something you would encourage people to do like hey I'm you know you're talking to somebody that's never done this before they they they have the interest like they're maybe on the edge I don't know if I have what it takes. I don't know if I can train my dog what would you encourage someone with uh that's in that position that just is asking you for advice?
SPEAKER_02:Well I'd tell them to take the leap. You know obviously I was I was in their same position I had the fear of failure. And um you know that there's no reason to be afraid of failure. That's part of the As we said earlier, you know, you're gonna fail, and there's gonna be times you're gonna fail. But if you trust the program and you trust the process and and you really enjoy it, you're gonna make your way through it and you're gonna end up with a dog that you can really enjoy. And you know, if if you a lot of people think that they need seven days a week to train a dog or six days a week, and CGA breaks it down really nice, but if you can get out with that dog two, three days a week and you know training and get good quality reps, it doesn't take a lot to make a good successful dog. And um, you know, like I said, my my favorite thing that I always go back to is trust the process. I know it can get annoying saying it and stuff, but you have to trust the process that you have built, that you have put in the work, and when you do that, success will arrive and you will be happy with the dog that you have put in front of you. Um so you just gotta take that leap, um, buy CGA, follow the program. The community is gonna be there for you. Um, I know Josh, Barton, whoever, they're all gonna be there if you run into a problem. And um ever everybody's here to help each other out. And that's one thing I love about the dog world. Um, you know, everybody is always gonna help everybody. Everybody wants to see the dog win. Um, you know, even when you go to hunt tests or anything like that, it's it's about the dog. Um, people want to see the dog succeed. And uh there's nothing better.
SPEAKER_01:Well, Chad, thank you so much for sharing that. And maybe we'll have to do a follow-up sometime. I know we didn't uh we didn't get to talk about hunting tests or anything like that, but I would love to talk about that uh maybe in the future with you on one. And uh just thank you for time and thank you for sharing. And uh I appreciate you, man. Been in a fantastic episode.
SPEAKER_02:Absolutely appreciate it, and uh look forward to the next time.
SPEAKER_00:Thanks for listening to the Build From Here podcast. To learn more about retriever training or our podcast, visit Cornerstone Gun Dog Academy.com slash podcast.