Heath’s First “Real” Season With Oakley | a Dog That “Gets To” not "Has to"

After years of old-school, collar-heavy training, Heath found himself rebuilding a dog after two ACL surgeries and starting over with a new puppy. In this episode, he shares what changed when he slowed down, trusted the process, and focused on building a dog that gets to work — not one that has to.

From rehab setbacks to a 300-retrieve season with Oakley, this is a real conversation about patience, fundamentals, and what it looks like when the work finally pays off in the field.

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Transcript

Meet Heath And His Dog Journey

SPEAKER_00 1:14

It means so much to me to be able to hear someone, be successful their dog, and see how they've been successful, overcome the challenges and get to where they want to be. And so I'm just excited to bring them on here, guys, and introduce you to him. Welcome aboard, Heath. How are you?

From 90s E‑Collars To Positive Methods

The Double ACL Saga And Rehab

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Doing good. Doing good. Glad to be here. Happy to be here. And uh I just I love talking dogs. I mean, it's it's I just I like being around dogs, like training dogs, working dogs, hunting dogs. It's just uh it's a whole different aspect of hunting when you when you have a dog involved, and then when it's your dog, you train that dog, and then you get to see the dog do what you put so much time in. There's no there's really no feeling like that. That you're like, hey, they really pulled this off. And then you're like, well, I reckon we pulled it off, you know, because through the training, you're like, man, I'm never gonna get there. I'm never gonna get there. And especially with this program, I've trained dogs in the past. Uh little background. I went to Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College in Tipton, Georgia, graduated there with a forestry and wildlife degree, went to work on several plantations up in Middle Georgia, and had trained dogs under or alongside other people. And we're talking late 90s. And the course and well it wasn't a course, it was just what you did. It was it was rigid, it was uh a lot of collar training because that's all we knew. I mean that's what we did. And I got out of dogs for a good little while. I bounced around on several plantations and then I decided my daughter wanted a dog way back. And I said I wouldn't get back in to no dog. I mean I was just I was just that's a lot of work, a lot of time. So we got her dog, and uh he at and and uh he was a male, chocolate male. Good dog, smart dog. And about just before he turned two, he tore his crucial ligament. So we was we was moving along good, and they said, you know, the doctors told me that you ain't got many options, you can amputate or do surgery. I'm like and my daughter, she's at she's at this time like 10, and she's like, You're gonna fix him, ain't you, Daddy? Yeah, I'm gonna fix him. So, and they said, you know, you got a 90% chance, 80 to 90% chance he's gonna tear it the other way. So we went through the rehab, six months of rehab. You got a two-year-old male lab in a crate for six months. You can put him on a leash, carry him out to the bathroom, put him back in the crate. So he's going stir crazy. I got him in the shop. I kept him there. We're we're just in there doing whatever, kept him tied to a four-wheeler so he couldn't jump or run. He was just in there with me, and we were scheduled. This was on a Sunday night. He was scheduled to go for his final checkup Tuesday. Surgery went great, everything's good. He had I had him over on the placeboard. I said, Come on, buddy. He stood up and his good leg slipped off the placeboard. He yelped and sat down. I said, You got to be kidding me. So I went to the checkup, told him I said, check that leg. He said, Yeah, he tore the other one. Because all that weight has been on the other leg all this time. I said, Well, fix it. Wow. So then with him now to tell we were doing at the time when he tore his first one. I had a guy out there throwing bumpers, about 100, 125 yards. He's throwing the bumper, I'm shooting. He's, you know, he's done acclimated the gunfire and all that. He's going, retrieving, and when he took off, I or I shot, then I seen him, he took off, made it about 20 yards when he tore the person. Okay, so I didn't think nothing of it, no big deal. I rehabbed me for a year. Both legs are six months. And when I got him back out, got him rehabbed, good, he's going. Now I was just gonna pick up where we you know, I went back through some stuff, brushed him up, then I went back out to shoot. He don't run off. He don't, when you shoot, he'll set out. The last thing in his mind is I heard a shot, I went through a year of rehab with two surgeries. Now I can make him retrieve.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 6:32

But if it's if it's a 10-yard retrieve or 110-yard retrieve, he's gonna walk the whole way. He'll walk out there, pick it up, walk back. You don't if you don't have a gun out there, he's wide open. I mean, he I mean he could do anything you want him to do. So when all that happened, it was kind of in the midst of that, there were some dogs I had hunted with previous. I knew they was having a litter. I said, I like that line, I like that litter. I'm gonna get a puppy. Because I didn't know what this was when he's rehabbing. I said, I don't know if I'm gonna get him back or not. He may be a couch dog.

unknown 7:15

Right.

SPEAKER_01 7:15

So I went on and bought the puppy, and I thought, you know, I got this puppy, I got him now. That's I got to train out some major problems. I said, I I need some help because all I had ever done was, you know, a lot of collar training, a lot of rigid, just whatever books or videos I could get a hold of way back then. And then I was just looking at YouTube videos one night, and somebody mentioned y'all. I don't know. I said, Well, there's a program. So I got to looking at it, and uh I said, Well, I got him that's in this shape, I got a new puppy. I got to find me a time point, I got to get me a program I can follow with two different age dogs, and one's got major problems, and we got to get this puppy from puppy to on through the program. So then that's when I called you. And uh I said, Well, let me check this thing out. You answered. That surprised me to start with. I said, Well, I said, he he put a number down there and he answered. I said, So it must be pretty legit. And then after we talked, I kind of like what I heard and then researched it some and then decided to buy it. And it has been it's been phenomenal, especially with two age, two different age dolls that you can pick up on one. Now, I've not got him completely through all that, but because being able to time frame stuff with the program, I think he's a whole lot further along than where he would be with me with no, you know, and that's when I got, I said, I said, man, I gotta have some help. I got me in some problems. I can't train my way out of. I just didn't have the the knowledge to train. And you know, you hear the thing that if a a dog's ever gunshot, you'll never get out of it. I disagree with that. Any dog can be trained. Now, why most trainers say that is because they don't have the time or don't want to put the time because they're got other clients' dogs there, or the client don't want to spend the money that it's gonna have to take to keep that dog there that long. So with both of them coming on, I said, I gotta get something. I found y'all's program, and it's and it's been a game changer as far as the the step by step, the time to to get it all done. Now the female Oakley, the one that uh that uh now she's she's phenomenal. She's gonna be she she just turned three and she's gonna be a good dog. She's gonna be she's gonna be there.

Discovering A Step‑By‑Step Program

SPEAKER_00 10:18

That's amazing. Yeah, that you've you put two through it. Um let's kind of rewind a little bit back to the 90s when you were first getting into this. Um so you're in Georgia, southern mid mid-Georgia, somewhere down through there. Um hunting, is that something you grew up doing? Is that um you know, just hurting in college? What's the story there?

SPEAKER_01 10:41

I grew up hunting with my my grandfather and and our family. We uh done mostly dove hunt. Uh he loved to dove hunt, so that's kind of where I got in it into dove hunting. And the type of work that we that my family did, we put in underground drainage pipes for farmers, so we had access to immense piles of land, and we could dove hunt every weekend. And uh that's where I got started. I did not start deer hunting really until college or later. And I got into that part, that's what kind of got me away from the dolls. I really got into deer hunting and just just went full bore into bow hunting. And then that is uh I just then when the dolls come back along, I I kind of got away from bow hunting as much and got back into dolls. But that's that's kind of how I got into kind of and I kind of done the deer hunting on my own. None of my family really deer hunted that much. I just kind of got in on my own.

unknown 11:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

So getting into the dogs and all that. Um let's walk through your story with Cornerstone. So obviously we trained a little different than maybe what you had trained with with the past. How was that coming into that, you know, experiencing this different way of training and how did that unfold for you?

Trust The Process And Read Your Dog

SPEAKER_01 12:12

I had never I had never really even heard of a click or treat training. I just, you know, you just keep doing the the way I was doing it, you just keep doing a drill, or keep doing something until the dog decides it's gonna catch on, or you use a collar enough to calm it down. And I never really liked that type of training. It was successful in all intents and purposes. It just you just never, I just never really liked it. It was I call, you know, I I say it was rigid. I like now with the cornerstone, I like the the clicker tree, you get a whole lot more responses. There's some trainers out there that don't do treat training. There, I mean that's fine too. But with the limited time I had with a family, a girl and playing travel ball, going to college, or still in high school, and then going to college, the the treat training speeds up the process to a pretty good degree. You can move along a little faster. And then the step-by-step that that y'all have in your program, and and let me say this in here too. I I like your program, but you may not like this. When you showed struggles with ballot, it's not a program that you get, and it's just, you know, all the YouTube videos you see is yeah, this dog knows how to do this. Okay, that's great, that's wonderful. How'd you get there? When you hit a struggle, how'd you train your way out of this? And I like seeing the struggles with Violet because you I'm like, okay, now what does he do from here? What did you do from here? That was something I I never had. That once you train your way in a problem, okay, evidently you did something wrong, or you missed something, or the dog was trying to tell you something you missed. And now how do I get out of this? I trained something and I got to train it out. Now, how do I do that? And that's where I always got frustrated, stuck, whatever. But I like watching your step-by-step. And if you struggle, you told, hey, okay, this is what's happening right here. We we got this struggle, let's back up or let's do something different. And then, and I and like I say, I I think I put it, I told you before that you got to keep in your mind it's a it's a marathon, it's not a spring. Because if you try to rush through this thing, you're gonna have a lot of holes in your train. And a lot of holes in the dog. Now, can the dog do it? Yeah, but is it is it the best way? Probably not.

SPEAKER_00 15:32

And uh Yeah, so that's something that's important to you is is the quality of your your dog. Not just does your dog do it. But I want to hit on that really quick because that's just important. So many people are out there. Let me give my dogs. So much. So much, coming from the reasonable way of trade. That we used to be. Were there holes in the dogs before, or is it just more of the attitude of the dog just wasn't exactly kind of what you're used to now?

Fun Over Force: Motivation Matters

SPEAKER_01 16:38

Well, I don't know if there was holes in there because you can you can get it out, but it didn't always seem now the dog enjoyed the hunting, the dog enjoyed the the retrieving, but it didn't always seem to me the dog was having fun. The dog was doing the job, but was it having fun doing it? Where with y'all's program, it always seems like the dogs enjoyed what we're doing. And and you can tell that once it, you know, because all dogs are a little different, but once they start to shut down, okay, you you you went a little too far, and now you're gonna pay the price for it. You know, so you gotta learn to read them that they're gonna. It just always seems everything y'all did was was fun and very low pressure. You can pressure somebody or even a person, you can pressure a person, pressure a dog into doing something. They may do it. It's like a 10-year-old kid, seven-year-old kid. I'm going, I'm gonna do it, but I'm not liking this. Whereas y'all's program, it always seemed like the dog was having, was enjoying what they're doing without the pressure. Now, do I use a collar? Yeah. I got some uh she's been collar, or both of them have been collar conditioned, and I and I think it's important. And I use it as a long leash. That's the only time I ever have to, you know, what I'm saying is if they're fisting to get into something, some danger, or I can get their attention and get them back to me like right now. They got per, you know, great recall, but sometimes a dog is a dog.

SPEAKER_00 18:35

Yeah, you know, I think what we're kind of talking about, the I like the theme where you're going. And uh, you know, there's nothing wrong with an e-caller if you use it properly. Right. Um, what we're looking for theme of the dog does it because it wants to use different animals and what people do when they really want to do that. What's the journey? For the week of tests. Um I would love to just know. Um let me ask this, and then we'll get into that. So when you started with your first so you started cornerstone with your first dog, not with a three-year-old dog.

SPEAKER_01 19:59

No, I started uh Is that right? Well, kind of with the first dog. Or you started dog. I I didn't start I started with my male lab for after he was two years old, after I had those problems and then had the puppy coming in. So she started as a puppy, he started at two years old. Which I had the foundation in him. That's cool. But but I was just having to move him further, and I said, Well, I got this puppy too, let's let's go with it and let's put them both on it, and and that that's kind of how where where I started with them.

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Okay. So as you went through the process, what you know, was there any stumbling blocks where you hit like that because it especially if you've come from a different background of training? When you start trying to train our method, that sometimes can create a conflict. It can be a little challenging to work through those barriers. Or was things reasonably smooth for you, or was there any like, hey, you know, you had to work around until you finally realize, oh, this is how I get my dog to want to do it, not have to do it.

Starting A Puppy And An Adult Together

SPEAKER_01 21:08

I say yes, but then when you me as a as a person and the trainer, when I would slow down and say, wait a minute, let's follow it, let's trust the process. I don't think the dog had as much trouble as I did. Because with a puppy, when you're starting, there's just there's just days there that you're gonna get frustrated. And I had to remind myself, listen, trust the process, trust the program, and let's just keep going. And so they the dogs never really had a problem. I mean, they're just like, What are we doing today? And but I had to retrain myself not to get frustrated, not to make them do something, and is it Slower? Yes, it is. But that's the beauty of the program. Because you solidify stuff before you move on. So as long as I kept my mindset right and followed the program, then they they I mean they caught on good. They didn't have the same no problem now. I think the male dog, he liked it better because I had started him on my previous only way I knew. It's the only way I knew to do something. And I will say I never I never liked, I never really did force fetch. I thought that was very unfair, inhumane to a dog. So I had always done whole conditioning, and where I picked that up, I I think in the years and years ago, I saw a video of Jeremy Moore and and looked at some of his stuff. And so I done the whole conditioning with them. But once I with the mail dog, it took a lot longer. I used y'all's program to do it with the with with my three-year-old way back, and I mean she picked it up, boom. I mean she was just on that where a lot of people I I I see the post on on the Facebook of a lot of people struggle with with the the whole fetch. She had no problem. I mean she picked that up. We just moved right on through that. But now a problem she has is something that probably a lot of people don't struggle with. This seems simple. To get her to run a straight line, she's gonna loop out to the right about 10 yards off every time. I run her in the lanes, I run her beside she does great in the lanes, great beside a fence, but you pull her back out, she's gonna loop out, and I'm thinking, but we're gonna get there. I mean, but it but and I say that to the other people, don't get frustrated if you can't get through something because here I am. One of the toughest things in your program, I think, is to fetch hold to get for people to catch a hold to and the dog to catch on to. We blew through that. And here I got a dog that's probably got three hundred three hundred retrieves under that is listen to anything, she whistles stop, she casts good, but can't run a straight line. And I'm thinking, how can you do all this other stuff and you just won't catch on to the straight line, baby? But it's it's the dog, you know.

SPEAKER_00 24:58

And that that's encouraging for a lot of people to hear. I think they're probably okay. Maybe I'm not doing too bad then. Maybe I'm not doing too bad. It's amazing how it's an emotional game though. You get so close to it and you get so in the mix that something goes wrong, I get hurt. It doesn't feel good when things go wrong.

unknown 25:17

Yeah.

Stumbling Blocks And Mindset Shifts

SPEAKER_01 25:18

But you got to just, you know, again, remind yourself this is a marathon. I'm gonna have this dog for 10 or 12 years. Don't push it. You've got plenty of time to hunt with these dolls and do. And me personally, I it depends on how the hunting seasons fall, but I usually have never hunted a dog under a year old. That's just my personal. I think you have a younger doll probably don't understand a lot of the hunting situation. I think you problems arise quicker because some stuff's not solidified. I mean, you gotta realize you take a nine, ten-month-old, even a 12-year-old, I mean a 12-month-old, they ain't been alive but ten months. They ain't been on this planet but ten months. And the first month of that was with mama. The first month and a half was with mama. You really didn't get to doing stuff with them till you got them home three to four weeks in. So let's take two more months out. They ain't they ain't been really cognitive of what's going on but eight months. And we've been on the, you know, however old we are, we think, why aren't you getting this? And I think when you hunt them too young, I think you cause a lot of problems that you're gonna have to train out later. Because we and and we're all guilty of it, we let things slip during hunting season because we just we're too focused on the hunt and we are the dog. And when they're young like that, they they you give them that structure and then you start letting things slip. Whereas in my opinion, I hunt them at about two years old, I start hunting them. This was Oakley, like I said, she spent a turn three. This was really her first hunting season. And I just done a a lot of the training for two years before you put them in situations maybe they're not ready for.

SPEAKER_00 27:29

Yeah, that's good. That probably served you pretty well. How was the first season?

SPEAKER_01 27:35

It was good. It was good. Now, like I said, I use her for quail hunting, so I use her as a flush dog.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

And nice, nice.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

There's struggles there. If if somebody's gonna do that, I would say solidify your obedience and the foundations tremendously. You take a dog out of a duck blind or a dove field that's sitting beside you, you you shoot one or two birds, they wait, you send them on the retrieve, they come back. Quail hunting, you she's flushing, there's eight to ten birds getting up in her face, there's two other bird dogs running around, there's two to three guys shooting. That's a lot going on. That's a lot of chaos, that's a lot of distraction. Now, has she done that perfect? No. No. We we're really having to work on our because what I got her doing, she flushes, then I set her to the whistle. Now, does she always do that? No. They don't have any birds get up real close to her face. She forgets what she's doing sometimes.

SPEAKER_00 28:43

But yeah, I would too if I was the dog.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

That's what I'm saying. I mean, that's a lot of temptation. You got ten birds getting up right there to your nose. She does it probably 70% of the time, like I want her. The other times we we're still working on it. But again, it's a marathon. And however much you throw at these dogs, and I probably threw her in the fire quicker than I should have because I didn't do enough of bird work early. And so she's getting there, but but again, she's just turned three.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Was the quail hunting? Was the quail hunting part of her first season as well, or did you do that a little earlier? Or you didn't know.

SPEAKER_01 29:27

No, that was that was this past season. I mean, I took on a few hunts just to let her see what's going on.

SPEAKER_00 29:33

See, I've done 300 birds then this this past season.

SPEAKER_01 29:37

Right. Between dove and quail and and ducks.

SPEAKER_00 29:42

Oh man, that's a really fun first season right there. That's awesome.

Versatile Work: Quail, Ducks, And Rabbits

SPEAKER_01 29:46

And most of that's quail, you know, because you know, we'll put out 50 to 60 birds, and she's gonna retrieve 90% of them. And you'll run two hunts a day, so that's a hundred retrieves. That, you know, do they get all of them? No, but there's the potential there for so most of it was quail. But then, you know, and I live I live in South Georgia, so our ducks is limited. So we get what ducks we can. So there's a very false small percentage of that in this ducks that she's retrieved. But she transferred from the from the upland to the when you go to the to the river in in the beaver swamps. She handles it good. She's to stay steady. That's good. Yeah, stay steady, and you can tell that watch their mind. And that was another thing I want to say about y'all's program. It taught early on how the dog learns. Watch your dog, see how it learns, you know, and that's something I never knew. So you can tell it's a whole different mindset with her when we get on a quail jeep and she's wide open and real fast. She knows this is gonna be fast paced, she knows when I carry to a duck blind or the or the beaver swamp, I put it on her stand, it just clicks. She's like, okay, we're gonna sit here. Because this is not quail hunt. And it took a little bit to make that transition, but if you work with them, they they're smart enough to figure it out.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

That that's something that uh yeah, that's something that a lot of people I think. Yeah, we've we've had a lot of people asking. Can you do can you do both land dog and uh and a water dog, waterfile dog and do the foundation? Pretty easy. You got any tips for anybody specifically on that transition? I know a lot of people out there may be interested in that.

SPEAKER_01 31:53

Uh do your foundations tremendously good. Your your your your heel, because she has to walk at heel with me until I send her in the flush. And if you can't get that right there correct, then it's hard to to control them in a chaotic environment. So get your heel good, get your sit good, get your stay where I tell you to stay. And then the the the sit to the whistle. Those and and that's basically anything you're gonna do with a dog, if you can get a a recall, a sit, and a stake, you can about do pretty much anything you want to from there. But if those are not solidified, you're gonna you're gonna have trouble. And that being an upland or in a or in a duck hole. I mean, if they can't be steady you you're gonna have problems.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

100%. What um what's been one of your greatest moments so far with your pop?

Foundations That Transfer Across Fields

SPEAKER_01 33:04

Uh probably one of the I I think I posted the video on the on the uh Facebook. I mean on the on the uh members website. We was hunting this past year on the river and we we was duck hunting. Shot some ducks and one was a pretty that there was a a slew of water between me and the river, and then the river, and she saw one go down. But the second was a total blind retrieve, and it hit on the edge of the river and rolled down the river behind the some logs, a little bit of brush and log. And I said she did not see that bird at all. Because we there was several wood ducks come in and we we shot at them and she saw some of them, and so I took around there, lined her up, and sent her, and I thought, here again, you know, I'm thinking she's gonna run crooked. She's you know, she's got this little thing about running crooked, but she done it perfect. She went through one body of water, went through the other. She she ran on past it, so I was able to I handled her some, stopped her, called her back to me, casted her over. She found it in that brush pile, came back across the river, right straight to me, delivered a hand. And time she delivered it, I I said, Good girl, she ran, jumped back on her stand over. I'm like, I didn't even tell her to go to play, she just jumped back up there like she's ready again. Like she looked at me like, hey, we've been doing this a thousand times. And I tell people, I said, Look, when you see, I don't want to compare it to your children, I mean, because they're adults. But when you train that long and you see them pull that off, I mean, to me the hunt was over. And most of the guys are like, I was like, look, y'all, y'all don't realize what she just pulled off right there. She went on a total blind at about 50 yards through two bodies of water, found this duck, and then come back. I said that was pretty awesome. And then we was quail hunting one day, and it is during quail season, it's it's rabbit season then. And some guys wanted, we got into some rabbits. And they said, Can we shoot these rabbits? I said, Yeah, shoot them if you don't do. And you know, they do out here, you know. And they shot some rabbits. And I I said, now before y'all shoot these, y'all all gonna clean them and eat them, right? They said, Yeah, yeah, we just want some. I said, Okay. So they had shot some rabbits, and I saw one where they hit it. I said, Well, I'm gonna I'm gonna see what she'll do. So I lined her up and sent her, and she went out there, picked it up, retrieved two or three rabbits to me. I'm like, you know, this is pretty awesome right here. She ain't never had ain't never seen a you know, had a rabbit in her in her mouth. But she retrieved them. And I thought, okay, this is working. You know, this this is going. So probably that's probably the two at up to date, the two proudest, you know, moments of her short career so far.

SPEAKER_00 36:31

Oh, that's amazing. I love doing the versatile stuff too. Where I mean these dogs really are incredible. I mean, they can do pretty much anything you want them to do. But that is amazing. I mean, two bodies of water, five bodies. That's a very challenging. Never know how it's gonna work out.

SPEAKER_01 37:30

And I I will say go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 37:37

Uh you go ahead. Yeah, you go ahead.

Best Moments: Blind Retrieves And Poise

SPEAKER_01 37:38

Oh, okay. I I've I've picked up on something that somebody may want to watch. I've done a lot of long retrieves. And when I started into the the the casting that that part of it and the back casting, when we start back short, I noticed that both of them ran past the bumper like just mock three going past it. And I will caution people don't get hung up all the time on doing long retrieves. Mix back in your short retrieve because we think, oh, they got that. And they do when you're doing a marked retrieve or you're doing a blind retrieve because we want them to go further. We have a the farther they go, it makes us feel better. But when we train a lot of that in, we we we skip way over the short retrieves again. And I noticed that even with with uh when I was quail hunter, a bird that fell short, because all of them's blind, I mean they had to stay in the bush, you know, they had the weeds and all, she would blow past that son of a gun. And I'm like, you know, but that was my fault. I trained her to go. So that's a tip, too, to don't don't forget your basic stuff. Always put it back in there so that the dog is not anticipating with going long, but to go out and start hunting right off the platform or right from heel, you know. And that was something I had to back back up and retrain.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Wow. That's a good tip. I think uh that and that principle as a whole. There's a lot of times that you gotta be careful. Sometimes you don't know if you're training in something. And that was a perfect example of that. And then you'll you'll figure it out. Oh, one day it doesn't take long to uh see what I did there. You gotta you gotta work through that.

SPEAKER_01 39:49

And so they you know, so let me ask you this.

SPEAKER_00 39:52

Oh, you got yeah, you go ahead. Go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 39:55

I was just saying they'll pick it back up, just back up. Realize you made up you as the trainer made a mistake. We sometimes don't like to say we made a mistake, but okay, I caused this. So what do I need to do to fix it? Again, trust the program. If you got to back up, we're we're not in a race. Now, we we see a bunch of dogs on YouTube, or we see our buddy's dog, or we see, and we're trying to get our dog there, but you're not in a race. You know, you're it's you and your dog, so if you call something, back up and train back through it, and then you'll get back where you where you were. Just trust the process. It's the is probably the biggest tip I can tell anybody. Trust the program, trust the process, and you will get there. And then there's a lot of stuff I keep having to do that I'm like, you know, they're not perfect. They they didn't pick it all up, so you go back. Is she where I want her to be? No. But I've not put everything in her yet either. I've not had the time, I've not put the well, I'm saying it's just not that time. I've not had the time with it. And but she'll get there.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

Right. Yeah, and that's the right mindset. They'll always get there little by little if you put in the work. It just takes time and effort. Um let me uh let me ask you this. Are you in testing work? Um, the um, what's been your experience with that community thus far? Yeah, you posted up that video and stuff in there. And you've been with us for quite a few years here. I would just love to hear your thoughts on the community and and how that has helped you on your training journey.

Common Training Traps And Fixes

SPEAKER_01 42:00

I like it because now I don't post a lot on there, but I read most all of them. And I pick up some tips through there, and I'll post some that if somebody's running into a problem, what I like about the community the best is you never hear anything negative as to what somebody did wrong. You can go on, there's other Facebook forms, and it just burns me up when a guy will come on there and say, Hey, I got so-and-so, so this is happening, and then everybody starts bashing the guy. Well, you shouldn't have done this, or you should have. He knows he's got a problem, that's why I ask y'all. You know, don't but with the the the community y'all built, everything's positive. And I and I can't tell the number of times that I've seen on there, hey, it's a little much to get in here and give me a call. Somebody post on there, give me a call. And they're willing to take the time because the person knows he's got a problem, that's why he's asking the question. He just can't get past. So he doesn't need somebody telling him what he's done wrong or how bad he did it. Okay, I know I did it wrong. Now help me get through this. And and I I've just never seen nothing negative whatsoever on there. And and I like I said, I've probably seen a lot to say, hey, give me a call, I'll help you. And that that's amazing in today's time. You know, a lot of people thrive off other people's misfortune, or they think, well, my dog's better than their dog, or I like that in the community. That there's a like I say, I don't post a lot on there, but I do read all of them. And I pick up tidbits in there too. I'm like, okay, hey, I need to file that, keep that in the back of my Mine, in case I run into that, this is how these guys, these guys did it.

SPEAKER_00 44:05

Yeah, there's not much room for uh for pride in dog training. If you get prideful, you'll be humbled very quickly. It doesn't take very quickly. But I love the community too. I love the people. And like you said, um you know I think that's just a a culture thing. The culture in Coruscant is different. And um I really think a lot of times that's the way the the same approach that people are taking with their dogs or the force I'm gonna force the Xbox Z to happen taking that same brunt approach on people. And I don't like that approach with people or with dogs. Uh it's a much better if someone comes to the conclusion themselves or the dog does themselves than it is for someone just to beat them beat in their heads. And uh the internet land all the time. And it is a shame. Um, in fact, everybody knows it. People are scared about it because I'm glad we have people like you and other people that jump in and help you. Because people aren't afraid of post. And like even if you've got a question that may not you know shows that you're agreeing, that's okay. You don't need people in your corner though. Because if you ask a question at someone that's new, and it's an interesting question that may could you know bring some uh heat, but you've got people that jump in and just encourage you, you're gonna ask a question again. And otherwise, if you get hammered, you're probably not gonna be asking a question again. You'd probably just be seeing if someone else asks the same question.

Community Culture And Real Support

SPEAKER_01 45:40

And you and it's it's like when I got into the program when when I run into the trouble with that mail dog. You don't know what you don't know. So how are you gonna get by this? And if it's a crazy and and you're asking a question, and the first answer you get is from some guy that's been training 10, 15 years, and he bashes you for something, well, buddy, I just didn't know. I didn't I didn't know it. And because all dogs are different and and there's more experience with them. I've often said that, and I feel really inadequate even doing this podcast because I don't think you should give too much advice till you've trained about your 50th dog, you know what I'm saying? Because you ain't seen it all. This may work for you, it may work great. It's like I'm saying with Oakley, she picked up the fetch hole, we blew through that, and she'll fetch up anything. I can tell her to fetch up a hammer off the floor. She go get it and bring it to me. But the next dog I get, we may be stuck there for two months. They just, you know, don't get it. And if you ask those kind of questions and and you first get hammered on it, well, now you're frustrated. You don't know where to turn now, so now you're looking at the dog and you start taking your frustrations out on the dog, and training just went out to window. I mean, everybody shut down, man.

unknown 47:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:15

But this I'm glad you're doing this podcast. I really am. I'm glad you're on here and sharing. And everybody has something valuable to offer, even if you've only trained one dog or two dogs. And it's uh I mean, just hearing you talk, it's amazing what you've been able to learn. And you know, especially coming from a different training background uh and using this, you know, you seem to have had an amazing experience with it. I mean 300 retrieves per season. Really nice blind retrieve, picking up versatile, you know, rabbits, quail, duck. That's uh that's incredible. What a what an amazing story to get get to share. And uh, you know, it it's it's it's amazing. So we're glad you're here, glad you're sharing.

SPEAKER_01 47:56

Thank you. Thank you. Enjoy doing, you know, if I can help somebody, that's what it's about. And you don't do these things to to brag because I'll be the first to tell you. She's got a long way to go. She's got a long way to go. And sometimes and I I will say that if you go out training sometimes, sometimes they got a bad day at school. We have a bad day at work, we have a bad day at school. Sometimes they just got a bad day at school. Just get a win and get out of it. If it ain't nothing but a but a a recall that they sit, you get that and just come back later. Don't keep forcing. They just have a bad day someday. And and if you keep forcing, you're gonna undo a lot of stuff to this point you've done. And just begin to recognize they're not gonna get it today. I took her out before and my wife even said I come back in about five minutes. She's like, That didn't take long. I said, She her mind wasn't in it. Her brain wasn't in it, and before I get frustrated, let's just quit. Let's just go play and do so. We'll go swimming or something. Like care of a little swim. And then a little bit later we'll go back. But you gotta learn to read your dog that hey, they ain't got it today. They just ain't doing it. And that's us.

SPEAKER_00 49:25

That's probably the best advice anybody can give. I mean, that's the mark of someone that has some maturity in training is being able to set your own agenda aside. Say, you know what? I want to do this, but you don't, and it's okay. We can do it another day. That's hard to do.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

We can do it, we can do it another day.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

That's maturity.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

There's that marathon again, you know, that hey, they just not feeling it. Maybe they don't feel good that day. Maybe they whatever. We have bad days all the time, and we expect the dog not to have bad days. But they do. They're they're living beings, so they're not always at a hundred percent.

SPEAKER_00 50:07

Yeah. Well, Heath, it's been an honor to have you on this podcast. I think, you know, as we as we kind of close this down, I think that was some great advice to share. What would be, you know, I always like to ask this question at the end, you know, what's kind of your your last what would be your advice to yourself getting started or to someone that's getting into this that's never done this before? What would be like your one or two words of encouragement that you would share with them as as we kind of close out?

Bad Days, Quick Wins, And Patience

SPEAKER_01 50:33

Uh if you get in a lab, remember you're getting a little pterodactyl for about the first three months. Don't get frustrated there. And then learn really, if if they're starting your program, really take a lot of time on the part of how to read the doll, how the dog learns, and that'll save you a lot of a lot of frustration going forward. So how they learn, understand what kind of dog you got, and then trust the process. Just trust the program and and go with it. That would probably be different. You're finna get a lab. I mean a lab to lab. So up until that first year, you got your hands full with a lab.