Build From Here
Build From Here
When Training Goes Wrong- Gun Shy Scare | Jason Albano’s Story
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Jason didn’t grow up hunting. He didn’t grow up training dogs either.
Like a lot of people, he started with YouTube, piecing things together and hoping it would work. At first, it felt like progress… until one moment in the field changed everything.
After a bad experience with gunfire, Jason was convinced he had ruined his dog.
In this episode, he shares how he worked through that setback, what he did differently the second time around, and how stepping back and following a clear process helped rebuild both his dog’s confidence—and his own.
If you’ve ever wondered whether it’s too late, or if you’ve made mistakes with your dog… this story will hit home.
Want to learn how to train your hunting dog with confidence?
Visit: Cornerstone Gundog Academy
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Visit: Retriever Training Supply
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Welcome And Meet Jason
SPEAKER_01Welcome to the Build From Here podcast. On this episode, I'm so excited to be introducing to you CGA member Jason Albano. Really an incredible member. His story is really encouraging. When he submitted it, and I kind of read over that, I was like, wow, you know, a lot of people have the same story. They start this journey, they go down a path, and then they find themselves at a place where they don't know if things are going to work out. And that's kind of where the story really begins with Jason and his teacher. Like he came to a place where he, you know, it was basically a hard pill to swallow on where his dog was at. Gun shyness was kind of one of the big uh concerns that, man, this dog may not turn out. So uh if that is you and if you've had that experience, I think you're really gonna enjoy this episode. But Jason has a lot more to offer in this, lots of tips, lots of um value that we're gonna be able to uh pull out from his story. And so I'm so excited. I also want to just say Jason is uh I want to honor him on this call before we get going and a model Cornerstone member. Uh I I mentioned this on the live leader call we had the other night. We have uh basically we have leaders within Cornerstone that are helping support the community. And uh we had this call, and uh Jason was out blowing some snow because of that northeast uh storm that happened up there, and he wasn't able to make it on the call. But I had hopped on one of their calls at the Boston chapter, he heads up the Boston chapter, and uh uh hopped on one of these calls, and I I don't even know if they knew I was on for a little bit. I just kind of popped in after I put the kids to bed, and Jason was just taking the time and listening to members and encouraging them and helping them on the journey. And honestly, it was uh I was like, wow, this is so cool to have people like this helping other people. And that honestly, him it really he is a model member in showing our culture, our culture is that we care about people, right? We prioritize relationships and connection, and Jason fully embodied that core value uh on that few minutes that I was able to hop on and hear what was going on. It was just so cool to see. So um that said, Jason, I'm so glad you're here. Welcome aboard, excited to share your story. Yeah, thanks for having me. Very excited. Yeah, man, it's gonna be it's gonna be great. I know uh I'm excited to talk about your pup. Or really you've got two pups now, so we'll kind of dive into that in a minute. But before we go into the pups and all of that, um let's just go in, man. Where did you grow up? I would love for people to get to know you a little bit, and then we'll dive into the fun stuff on the dogs and and then the really fun stuff everybody wants to see, which is the problems.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. Um, so from right outside Boston, Massachusetts, um, I own a landscaping company. Um, and you know, clearly it's winter right now, so we're not doing any work right now.
SPEAKER_01Um tell me about that uh snowstorm you guys just had, because that we don't understand what that is like down here in Alabama. Like we the worst we've ever got was Snow Mageddon, and that might have been like you know 10 inches.
SPEAKER_00So we got about two and a half feet with this snowstorm. Um, and the thing the the thing about this one, it was a blizzard, so it just it dropped four inches an hour, and it was just so hard for people to keep up with it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it was it was what do you I mean when you say what does two and a half feet look like? I mean, does that like cover up the driveway completely?
Boston Winters And Daily Life
SPEAKER_00Like can you even get out of the the house? If you don't if you don't keep up with it, you cannot get out. It's it's really uh yeah, yeah. It's um and then there's things called snow drifts, so the wind will blow the snow, and what happens is you can have two inches on one side, but you can have five feet on the other side. Really? So like doors could be like kind of blocked off. Yeah, yeah. Whoa, yeah. So yeah. So um, you know, it all this all really started with, you know, I wanted a dog, had to get a dog. So it all really started with my wife and I before we got married, we got Maggie, who was a go a field golden retriever. And I I did not know what a field golden retriever was at the time. I was like, you know, oh, I just got a golden, you know, there's okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, but then I when you got this, when you got Maggie, was that just like for y'all's family dogs?
SPEAKER_00It was it was a fan, you know, I like I said, I mean, um, I have no hunting background whatsoever in my family. Um, my father never hunted, no, no one in my family. There's no history of hunting whatsoever. Um did y'all ever do any outdoor stuff? What we what we do, we're avid fishermen. We love fishing. We go to Cape Cod, we go to the Northeast, and absolutely love fishing. I mean, you can see it on the head. Um so go the nort go the northeast, fish, uh, black sea bass, striped bass, two and I, you name it, we're catching it. Um, so that's what we would do. There's no, but there was no hunting. Um, so we got Maggie and she was a family dog, and we just, you know, she was a great dog, you know. And then after that, we had about three kids. Um, three wonderful children, two two girls and a boy. And um, you know, the kids absolutely love Maggie. But again, how old are the kids now? I have 12, soon to be 12, 8, and 6. So wow, that's cool. Yeah, that's cool. Very, very, very, uh, very busy right now. Um, but they're great kids. So as the years went by, Maggie turned 12, and we I decided, my wife says, I wanted another puppy. So I went to get another golden, um, you know, right up in New Hampshire. But she, so Marlene, um, when we went up there, she is a English cream golden, so different, different breed. You know, I don't think English cream goldens were really bred to hunt. I think it was more of a family dog. So we got her, brought her home, and you know, then you know, a few years later, Maggie did pass away. Um, which which it's it's you know, it's never fun to have to lose a dog.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I'm curious, like where where did the where did the hunting come in? Yeah. Yeah. So you got this, or were you when you got uh Marlene, were you thinking about hunting at the time, or was this still you're thinking, just repla getting another dog for the fish?
SPEAKER_00Just getting another dog, just you know, hadn't wasn't thinking about hunting whatsoever. Um I fish from late April to mid-September. You can fish later than that, um, but I have three kids. They go back to school. I have no time to run down the cape and go fishing with sports school activities. God, for you, do you have is it like uh about an hour and 20? Hour and 20 minutes. So it's not bad at all, right outside Boston. Um so between October and I'd say January, I had really nothing to do. You know, I just I needed to fill a void or you know, fill a gap in a hobby. And I hate golf. I try golf and I'm not golfing, it's just not happening.
SPEAKER_01I'm not too good at that either, man. It's uh I've spent a lot of money on golf balls, I'll say that.
Fishing Background And New Hobby
SPEAKER_00Yeah, exactly. I I gave up on it. My clubs are you know built like in the basement, buried somewhere. Um, so my friend Sam, he said to me, He goes, Why don't you try hunting? He Sam pheasant hunts, he deer hunts, he does some duck hunting. He goes, Why don't you try hunting? I said, sure. Like, what do I need to do? I have no idea how to start this um process. And he told me, get your LTC because you need a license to carry in Massachusetts and get your hunting license. So, okay, no problem. Um, did all that, got my Mossberg 500. You know, I went to an outdoor store and I said, hey, listen, I need a shotgun for pheasant hunting. And they said, okay, you know, Mossburg 500. It was like$500, and I was I was ready to go. 20 gauge. So I was ready to go. 20 gauge. Yeah, yeah. Um, so ready to go. And what happened, you know, Sam has a GSP, a um GSP hound mix. Sorry. Nice. And yeah, great dog. His name was Blue. His name is Blue, sorry, he's still around.
SPEAKER_01Classic. Classic.
SPEAKER_00Classic, right? GSP name. We so Sam says, you know, opening day is coming up. I'm gonna take you to a hunting spot a little further out that's stocked. It's a WMA, and they stock it once. So Massachusetts is they'll stock once, twice, or three times, depending on the size of the field and how many people they get. But he wanted to take me to a smaller area because it was my opening day and it was Blue's opening day. So he didn't want a bunch of shotguns going off and going crazy. Um, which I, you know, I was like, okay, thank you so much. You know, this is new to me. Um, because you know the only time I really shot my shotgun was at a shooting range or a skeet shooting.
SPEAKER_01Well, I I gotta ask something here because I'm I'm just thinking is what you're telling me. I see a license to carry, that means to even have a gun like in the vehicle at all, or yeah, so you have a gun at all.
SPEAKER_00What does that mean? That's so license to carry, um, or you so you can get a license, sorry, you can get a license to carry, or you can do, I don't know what the other class is called. I think it's class B. I could be wrong, people are gonna say no, no, no. Like, um, but um license to carry is pretty much you have to apply to get a gun. Um Wow. So yeah, yeah, you can't just go to a store and buy a gun. Nope, you need to go to the police station, fill up paperwork, background check, everything like that. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we have to do a background check here, but you don't have to go like apply. You could go and then they'll now I've been into a gun store one time and uh I think I was buying a shotgun, and uh this one guy uh was buying it and then they turned him down. Like I guess the background check didn't check out. So he's like, Yeah, we can't can't sell it to you today, come back the other day. I was like, Yeah. I was like, oh, that's a little that's a little funny, but uh then I ended up getting mine, no problem. But um I think that has to do with you the past history on someone and all that. But that's interesting right there because the culture, I'm the reason I'm asking, I'm curious for a hunter's as a culture, like where I'm at in Alabama, like hunting is a pretty big part of the culture, at least from where I grew up. I grew up in uh a school called Corner the Corn for short, because we had cows right next to our school and like we're out in the middle of nowhere, and all my buddies hunted. So like that's just part of like the culture. Seems like it's a little bit different up there. So that is uh that's interesting to me, and like getting into that's a little intimidating to be getting into something like that. I feel like if the culture is different, because that could there's some barriers to entry there.
First Pheasant Hunt Without A Dog
SPEAKER_00Oh, the yeah, the culture is definitely different. I'm not sure about down south, but can you guys hunt on Sundays? Yes, yes, we cannot hunt here on Sundays, we are not allowed to. Yep. Wow. Um, I'm not sure why. I think they're gonna change it, but yeah, the culture is definitely different up here. Anywhere, even on private land or just WMA? Anywhere, anywhere. Wow, even bow hunting, anything like that. Yep. Interesting. So, yeah. Um, so yeah, just so I, you know, we went to the hunt uh the WMA, and Sam brought me out there, and he says, Okay, Jason, you go to and sorry, Sam has trained blue. He trained him um blue himself. So um he told me, go to the right side of the field. I'm gonna go the left with blue. He goes, You don't have a dog, you gotta kick up all the thorns and everything, and you know, just go through it and see what you can get. Um, you know, he he wanted to focus on blue. He didn't want me really around blue yet, just because you know he won it's blue's first time, wanted blue to focus. Wasn't sure how it was gonna turn out. Um so I'm walking through, I'm getting all messed up with thorns and you know, sticks and everything going to my boots. And um, so I look over and I see blue walking around sniffing, and Sam's kind of standing there watching blue, falling blue a little bit, and all of a sudden I see blue point, and I'm just saying, you know, and then all of a sudden, pheasant pops up. Sam walks over, pheasant pops up, shoots it, throws it in his bag. I'm like, wow, that this is great. Like two, and I'm walking around trying to, you know, get a bird up by kicking myself, and you know, I'm I'm my dog, I'm my own dog. Um, wow. So again, blue does it again, points, Sam walks over, kicks up the bird, shoots it again, and he has his limit within 15 minutes. And I'm thinking to myself, I'm just like, wow, I'm like, this is amazing. I'm like, this is absolutely great. Um, and Sam's just a big smile on his face. You know, he asked me, he goes, Hey Jason, you take a picture of me and Blue with the birds, and I said, Of course, take a picture. And I'm looking at the camera, I just see this big smile on his face, and Blue's standing up so straight like this, like really proud. And I'm like, this is awesome, this is great. I I missed a bird, a bird flew by me, I missed it. You know, first time hunting, I was like, okay, I got to shoot my gun, it's okay. I missed it. Um, and on my way home in the truck, I'm like, I need a hunting dog. You know, this is my first day hunting, and I'm like, I need a hunting dog. And I'm thinking to myself, I was like, well, I have a dog at home, I have a golden retriever. And I was like, I can train Marlene to hunt, there's no problem. You know, Sam did it, you know, he you know, he did it with his GSP. Like, why can't I do it with my dog? Um, so go, I ordered a bunch of books. Books, books didn't really work out for me. I'm more of a visual person, so you know, I had to, you know, I was like, how can I do this? Got on YouTube. I'm a YouTube warrior. I mean, I'll watch fishing videos all day on YouTube. So I said, you know what? I'll I'll yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01That's it, girls. They they love it. The girls love Gale Force twins because they're they're family friendly, so yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. That is a great great podcast as well.
SPEAKER_01Um so got on YouTube and how old was Marlene at this Marlene.
SPEAKER_00We're talking about yes, sorry, yeah, because Maggie passed away. Yeah, um yeah, Marlene is about she was about six months, seven months. Okay.
SPEAKER_01So at this point you aren't thinking about having a hunting dog, and then now all of a sudden you've had this amazing experience, and it's like, I got a hunting dog now, let's go. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because that's cool. You know, even even back then, like I didn't know people had dogs for hunting. I didn't know anything like that. I had no idea. Um, you know, when I had Maggie who was a field golden, I I I had no idea she was bred to hunt. Like I didn't know that was I know they're great family dogs as well, but I thought they were just golden. I didn't know there was like four different types of golden retrievers. Um so um, so I went on YouTube and I was watching a bunch of videos, and you know, I would take piece by piece of the videos, and I said, Okay, well, Marlene already knows how to sit, she already knows how to retrieve, she's okay at heel work. Um, so I was kind of like looking at them and I'm like, okay, she knows this, she knows this, she knows this. So in my head, I'm like, all she really needs to, I need to know if she's afraid of a gun. Um, which, you know, yeah, now looking back, I'm like, this, I I'm I'm a terrible person. Um hey, look, you that's the general thought.
SPEAKER_01Like, so the truth is most that's a that's a reasonable thought. I'll say that. It's not that you you just if you don't know, you don't know, but that is a reasonable question. Like, okay, I'm gonna make sure my dog is good with gunfire. If you don't know, right? Uh I know where you're going with this. I uh based on what you just said. I already have a feeling on I know where this is going.
YouTube Training And Gunfire Mistake
Opening Day Panic And Regret
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Um, so yep. So I I I buy the blank pistol, I take her in the field, and you know, I have her she was very good at steady. Like I, you know, with her food, I had her wait, and she was really good at that, you know, before and I tell her, okay, you can eat now. So she was actually really good at being steady. So I w had her sit, wait. I went a hundred yards, and I shot the blank, and nothing, like nothing. She didn't jump or anything. Um, got closer, shot it again. I didn't throw any bumper. Like, I when I watched the video, no one was throwing a bumper. So I was like, okay. So I shot the gun again, closer, shot the gun again, and so on, so on, and nothing. No flinch, nothing. Um holding her, or you just had her just sitting there. I just had her sitting there. That's pretty good. That's good. Yeah, she's very obedient dog. Um, but it, you know, as the story goes on, you'll hear more. Um so the next day, I really didn't waste any time. So the next day I got some blanks for my shotgun and did the shotgun shooting with the blanks just a little louder, and still nothing didn't move or anything like that. So I said, okay, she's ready. You know, I just did this once. There was no repetition. There was no um, you know, I wasn't con like doing it like every like once a week or anything like that. She did it once and I was like, she's ready to go. Um opening day came, we're ready to go. I got Marlene a new vest. You know, she's she's got a nice bright orange vest, she's excited. She sees the gun. She sees her, I ha I do have an e-collar on her just in case she runs to the road or something like that, just for safety. Um and we got out to we went to Medfield, Massachusetts, and it's another small WMA for Pheasant um opening day, and I was like, this is awesome. No one was there, so I'm like, this is perfect, no one's gonna show up. And we just got out on the field and you know started hunting, and she was sniffing around, and I was like, this is like she's doing awesome, like nothing can go wrong here. Um all of a sudden I look over the parking lot because it's small. I look over, one car shows up, another car shows up, about 15 cars shows up, and there's four people in each car, and they each have two dogs in each car. And I'm saying, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was like a war zone. Oh man. I but Marlene had like she saw the dogs and everything. I I got nervous in the beginning because I didn't know how she'd react with other dogs, hunting with other dogs, and she had no issue whatsoever, you know, running around with the, you know, with other dogs running around. Like she stayed with me. She went, you know, it was looking for the birds, went in, and a guy came up to me, started talking to me, and his dog, he had a black lab, you know, very nice guy, just started talking to me, but it there was a pheasant, there was a um rooster two feet away from us that Marlene didn't see. The black lab kicked up the rooster, the guy shot really close, you know, not too close to Marlene, but you know, shot near Marlene, and that's when she started um jumping on me. So she started jumping on me, and after that she started running around again looking for birds, so I didn't really think anything of it. Another shot went off, she started she kind of went down like that and then jumping on me uncontrollably, and I knew something was wrong. Um Yeah, so I just tried I got her, you know, we were walking back to the car, and I I wanted to be calm about it because I didn't want to bring it to her attention, like saying it's okay, it's okay, you know. I didn't want to bring it to her attention. Um, but another shot went off, and that's when she started to bolt to my truck. Um definitely, definitely got really nervous about it. Um so got her in the truck. On the way home, I'm thinking to myself, I just ruined my dog. I just like I I I ruined my dog. I thought she was ready. I felt terrible. I wasn't mad at her, I was mad at myself. I was like, I I did something wrong and I don't know how I'm gonna fix it. So I get home, I tell my wife about it, and she's just like, Have you thought about hiring a trainer um instead of going to YouTube? And I said, Yeah, you know what, you know, I'll make a few calls. Made a few calls. I can't afford that. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01It's not cheap, I'll say it's it's not cheap.
SPEAKER_00But they also wanted my dog for two years. Oh wow, yeah. They said, you know, master, you know, master hunter, 18 to 24 months for two years. And I was like, I I'm not you're not having my dog for two years. Like, um, we're not doing this.
SPEAKER_02Wow.
SPEAKER_00Um Yeah, it's it and it was a lot of money a month. Um so I went back on YouTube just to see what's going on, and all of a sudden, you know, you know, the ah moment when the cornerstone thing popped up um when I was on Facebook, and I said, let me let me just try this. Let me let me give it a shot. I went into it. I hadn't when I signed up, I had no idea there was like a community and a forum and everything like that. I thought I was just getting a list of uh things to do and um yeah, so you know, signed up for that, and I started from the beginning. So I did the 52 week, started from the beginning, and you know, even though I knew she knew sit, even though I knew she knew heal and retrieve, but she didn't know place. I had no idea what to teach place because I, you know, I wasn't I don't have a list of things on YouTube. I'm just clicking videos that pop up, so it was just random. Yeah. Um so we went through all that and we were just going through the whole program, and when when we were going through all that, Marlene's confidence level was just like through the roof. It was just a totally different dog. Her confidence level and my confidence level. And it's just yeah, so you know, after going through that and we're going through the lessons, um, you know, and then you know, we practiced the gun training on there, and I think with her confidence, and you know, because when I shot the first blank again, I thought she was gonna like jump on me or bolt, but she was just standing still, like her chest, like it was like blue, her chest was like out, like super excited. Just and like I think she was more excited the gunshot off than anything. That's awesome.
Finding A Structured Training Path
SPEAKER_01Let me I gotta ask a question here. So you started from the beginning, so that took you a little bit of time to get back through there. Um what so you weren't in a hurry at this point, you decided, look, if we're gonna do this, we're gonna go back and we're gonna take our time and make sure we do it right.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_01How was it going through the structured, you know, easy to follow system compared to the YouTube videos just in the first few weeks? Was there did you notice any difference for yourself in the first few weeks or for the dog? What what did that look like? Because that's definitely a different flow than getting on YouTube. And and the YouTube videos are cool, but there's a lot of good YouTube videos. But like you said, there you know, you're clicking random videos and there's just no structure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, there's no structure. So with the the cornerstone when when I went through so I'm gonna actually quote someone that um was on the the dream team meeting that says you need the ingredients for the recipe. Um so it's yeah, so I mean with the the cornerstone, I felt like I had it it gave me more patience with my dog when I was seeing everything on there. Um just having that list of things to do because everything adds up. Um like you throw this ingredient there, and then that that complements this ingredient and complements this ingredient. Um, so it definitely, you know, that helped me and my dog and Marlene.
SPEAKER_01Um that's cool. Maybe took the pressure off you a little bit. I would imagine. Oh, for sure. Especially with how I mean it seemed like honestly, I mean what you're saying, it seems like training was going pretty good. You clearly knew what you're doing on the obedience, like to have your dog sit at 100 yards, that that shows that you're doing something. Yeah, but um after that experience, that definitely has you questioning everything, you know.
SPEAKER_00Very, very hesitant questioning, yeah, questioning everything. Um and you know, like I said, when we started from the beginning, it it we did kind of speed through um the pro not, you know, speed through because she already knew some of it. Um, but like I said, when she was doing it, when I had her sit, like going through that process again, she did have the confidence to do everything. But yeah, it did take the pressure off both of us. Um so when we took her hunting, um, sorry, so we went through the process, did the gunshot, practiced everything. It was um Thanksgiving.
SPEAKER_01Did you feel after going back through the gunfire? So you I'm sure that first session you're really sweating.
SPEAKER_00Well, I was holding my breath the whole time. Um, we did we did it differently because so my my daughter came with me um and she held the leash um while I shot um and you know I threw the bumper. So it was I think throwing the bumper distracted her from the gunshot as well. But um it gave it gave her a purpose. So, you know, I when I did it in the the beginning the first time with the YouTube video, she didn't have a purpose. I shot the gun and she just stood there. You know, now when I shoot the gun and I threw the bumper, she's like, okay, like I had that's a bird, I need to go get it. Um so yeah, I was sweating bullets, and it's yeah, and she just did great, she did really well, and we did that many, many, many times. That just wasn't it. Made sure it was right this time. I made sure it was right. Um we we just yeah, practiced so many times.
SPEAKER_01Um what did your wife say after coming back and things? I'm assuming she was pretty ecstatic that it yeah went good.
Rebuilding Gun Confidence With Purpose
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Well, she could just see on my face I was so discouraged. I think she felt more bad for me than anything. Um felt bad for Marlene, and yeah, she was very, very happy that you know Marlene, you know, handled the gunshots pretty well. So um practice, practice, practice. Pheasant season came up again. We this is the real defining moment here. This is a real defining moment. So, you know, I the you know, I wanted to practice some more, so I didn't take her a couple times. I was just I think I was just nervous at this point. I did not want to see that she was scared again, I was afraid. Um, but it was actually Thanksgiving morning, and my oldest daughter, um, she said, Hey dad, do you want to go pheasant hunting? And I said, I said, Great. I'm like, you know, your daughter asks if you want to go hunting, you say yes. You you you do not say no. Um and I said, This will be a tradition, we'll start this up. And she goes, Can we take Marlene? And I said, Yeah, for sure. Like, yeah, yes. I was like, you know what, why not? Let's do it. Um we take Marlene, we get we go to the same place in Medfield, it you know, because it's only 20 minutes away. Um couldn't waste any time on Thanksgiving, couldn't take too much time up. Um, so we went to, yeah, so went to Medfield, and Marlene jumps out of the truck, she's all ecstatic, and it's just a different dog. Just confidence level through the roof. Yeah, just totally different. This is the same place. You're going back to the scene of the crime. We're going back into the scene of the crime. Yeah. Um, so no fear of going back. I that's that's what ran across my mind. I was like, she's gonna see this place and say, no, I'm getting back in the truck, I'm not staying here. Um, but no, she she went out, she was wagging her tail, she was sniffing around, you know, and Maeve and I, we got our vest on, I got my gun and we started walking, and we're walking around, and Marlene um she doesn't point much because I just notice golden retrievers don't point much. So she kind of just sniffs and wants to, she scares the bird. So and I haven't really trained her to point, so that's on me too. But um she scared the bird. I go to shoot it and I miss it. And I I look over very slowly just to see if Marlene's still there, because I was like, if she bolted, I'm in trouble. I look over to see if she's still there, and she's still there, and she's looking at me like, dude, are you kidding me? Like, I just set that I set that bird up for you and you failed, and I felt so bad. I felt terrible, but she did not bolt. She actually, after I missed that bird, she just kept going, like searching around. Unfortunately, we did not find another bird that day because they, you know, it was a Thanksgiving, they stopped stalking, and you know, we were lucky enough to find that bird. But I was just so grateful that my daughter was there and got to see that, you know, training works. It, you know, she did not get scared, and you know, like I said, she was I think Marlene was just more mad at me for missing the bird.
SPEAKER_01Dude, that's incredible. That that is a testament to the work he put in because you know, miss unfortunately, they didn't get to have that reward that that they need to reinforce. But I mean, clearly that I think that's also a testament to the style of training that you that we do with Coruscant and how you implemented it, because this whole thing is about gets to, not has to. So like there's no the dog is going to be happy no matter what happens when you train that way. Because it the motivation is I like what you said. It sounded like the dog wanted it just as bad as you, if not more, then you wanted it. And that's that's what we're after. So yeah, man, good job. That's incredible.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. And it's, you know, between me and the dog, we're a team. It's it's teamwork. That's you know, it's like five basketball players on the court. Like, you all got to work together. So, you know, that's right now, like Marlene, we're we're just buddies, we're a team, and you know, yeah, I'm excited that she overcame that, and I also overcame it.
SPEAKER_01So that's incredible. What uh what's the next hunt? Did you have you had a I'm assuming you've had a hunt since where you were able to close the deal on some birds?
SPEAKER_00No, so I mean, so pheasant season um is over in November. Oh, it ends in November. Oh wow, wow. Yeah, it's early. So Massachusetts, it starts in October and sorry, it's over December 31st, but they stopped stalking in November. So it's pretty much over at Thanksgiving. It's pretty much over. Um we did I I didn't really get much duck hunting in um just because I just got so caught up with deer.
SPEAKER_01I understand that now. I don't blame you. I don't blame you. Do you all have big uh bucks up there?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I actually um I shotgun hunt a lot, and then this year was my first time bow hunting. Um you're addicted now. Yeah. Oh my god. So I hunt behind my brother's uh house in Hall, uh it's in Holliston, Massachusetts, out behind his house, and I got it would have been an eight-point buck, but he was he was a bully buck. He just got all beat up, so all his you know, antlers were gone. Um, but he was 180 pounds. And yeah, so I got my first buck bow hunting season this year.
SPEAKER_01Wow, that's yeah, I mean, to kill a buck with a bow, it it takes something. I'm I'm uh I want to do better at bow hunting. I tend to do better when I'm about 500 yards away and that they can't see me or smell me or hear me.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I did everything. I I did everything in like my because my cousin bow hunts, and he's like, hey, you need to smoke your clothes, you need to do this, you need to do that. So I'm outside, like, you know, I have like I use the beehive can smoker to smoke my clothes. Um I'm smoking my underwear, you know, in front of people walking by. That's how crazy I got. Well, that yeah, that's uh that'll get you fired up right there.
Thanksgiving Hunt Field Test
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Well, that's awesome. Well, so um I've got uh other questions. So that was a huge defining moment that went great, and so you've continued the training. Was that this past Thanksgiving uh 2025? So what made so now you've got another dog too? What made you decide to go ahead and pull the trigger and get another dog?
SPEAKER_00Um yeah, so like you know, both dogs were my choice, my wife says. Um, so I you know, I like Marlene, like she still needs more training. Um, my two-year-old dog, and you know, we're still working on some things, but I I always wanted two dogs. I always like having two dogs in the house. Maggie passed away, that it was kind of like an empty void, you know. We needed two dogs. Um, you know, I feel like two dogs, Marlene needs a friend as well. So I said, why don't we get also a hunting buddy for you? Um, I don't know what I was thinking, but it's yeah. Um so we have a 12-week-old field golden now, uh, Goose, who's from Colorado, and her mom and dad are actually their um master. I don't really know the hunt test terminology, but I think they're master, like they they just passed their masters or something and and hunts that's great.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're probably master master hunters, I would imagine, got their titles um maybe even master national. Oh, really? Okay, wow. Wow.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. Um, so Goose is from a great bloodline. I got her because just I want to continue training. Like I I want to start over again. I know you I know with you know Marlene, like you know, you gotta um reintroduce things every year. Um, but you know, I enjoyed so much training Marlene, I wanted another puppy to train again to just do the same thing and watch her grow and see how and see her progress. Wow.
SPEAKER_01How um so when did you get your puppy about eight eight or nine weeks?
SPEAKER_00I got I got goose uh eight weeks. Yep. Eight weeks.
SPEAKER_01So you're already going through some of the first few weeks of Cornerstone. How is that going for you with uh with Goose? Kind of you know, different this time. You're starting from ground zero following the easy to follow system.
SPEAKER_00So training Marlene was a lot easier because she was older and she already knew some of the things. Training Goose is like training a firecracker right now, she's everywhere. Um but she it's so yeah, so Marlene was easier, but Goose also, since she has the you know the bloodline in her, she has you know the hunting DNA in her, she's also doing really well. Um but training in you know, she so Goose already knows place, she knows heel, she knows sit, um, she already knows steady. Wow, yeah, she's retrieving. Um because she was also training.
SPEAKER_01She's a firecracker, very driven there.
SPEAKER_00She's very driven and a high prey drive. Um, Marlene, I had to kind of get a prey like like build that prey drive into her.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00But Goose has that prey drive and training her. Um it's it's they're both different in the same way, but also the same in some same in the same way. But using, you know, using Cornerstone, it just makes it easy. And you know, having that having those courses and you can just go back to those courses, um, it's great because like if you had YouTube, sometimes I'd lose a video and be like, oh, I gotta find a new one or do this this. But having that forum is just you know, you have it right there and you're you're good to go. Wow.
Deer Hunting And Bow Season Bug
SPEAKER_01Yeah. The I love the the drivey dogs. It's uh and there's nothing wrong with like a dog like Marlene, but it is nice to it's it is easier to hold one back than it is to push one forward, if that makes sense. It's definitely easier to kind of you you want you almost almost want them a little overboard so that you can kind of pull them back in uh if you if you like that type of thing. Some people may not, some people may want that more calm, relaxed dog. And I will say sometimes the the more drivey dogs are a little harder to handle, but once you get a hold of them, like and you get dialed in, it's it's money. They're they're good.
SPEAKER_00For sure. For sure. Yeah, and yeah, and goose, I mean, one day she'll listen and one day she won't. Um, but we're getting there. And you know, some days I notice she has she doesn't want anything to do with me and you know the training, and I just I leave her be. I'm like, oh, you know what, let's do it tomorrow. Because I don't want her to like, you know, not like the I don't want her to not like me doing the training or anything like that. Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_01You're doing the right thing. A lot of people, one of the big mistakes is they they force it. Um like I was talking to somebody the other day that maybe a similar story to you, they they had an older dog, they were not in cornerstone yet, and they I I think they actually just joined, but they were having uh a problem where the dog just was losing interest on things and it was quitting. And kind of the way uh they they actually were using another program and they had talked about that and I had asked questions and I was like, well, what figuring out what's going on? And one of the things that they were doing is they they were pushing to the point that the dog was tired of doing it, and then they it they would just stop when the dog quits. If you wait till the dog quits, you're teaching your dog that it's in control, that it can quit when it wants to. If you choose and you control when you quit, which means stop early, because we're not going to force a dog to pass what they want to do, at least at this earlier ages, you know, you might do some of that later when they're older, but um early on, especially you want the dog to quit on your terms and you want it to still be hungry for more. Leave gas in the tank so that that fire is there and it stays there.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. So yesterday with goose, I was just working on some retrieving um in the house because it's just so much snow on the ground, it's impossible to keep her, you know, in line with me. Um so we're doing in the house yesterday, and she I I would throw this the small bumper, the puppy bumper. Didn't want to go get it, nothing. So I said, okay, we're done. Like we're done here. This morning we did we did some training, same thing. Grabbed it, brought it to me. We did it three, four times, and that was it. And she looked at me, she looked at me like when I finished and was like, We're not gonna do more. It's like, nope, I want you hungry tomorrow. Yep.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That is such a and that's one of the easiest things to do when you choose to do it. And it it's not hard to do, and it really does make a huge difference.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yeah. And Marlene's the same way too. Some days she wants it, some days she doesn't. Um, but I'll tell you right now, it it it is hard to try to train two dogs. I mean, I I don't I tried it once doing it together, and I was like, never again.
Adding Goose And Training Two Dogs
SPEAKER_01Um once once goose gets to be about a year or so, it'll be pretty easy to train them both at the same time.
SPEAKER_00Yep, yeah, but there's I'm hoping to get goose on Marlene's level by you know this um October. Oh yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01I don't see that being a problem at all. And then Goose will be uh approaching a year, maybe um you got December, yeah.
SPEAKER_00They both have the same birthday. Do they really?
SPEAKER_01That is crazy.
SPEAKER_00That is crazy. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. I don't know how that happened there. That's wild. I have no idea. That's just the same time we got the puppy. Um yeah, but yeah, Marlene, you know, definitely defied the odds. I went on retriever um training sites, like Facebook pages, and they just I said I have an English cream golden, and instantly they're like, that's not a hunting dog. You can't hunt with that dog. And I just I you know, and you know, that's the thing about Facebook and YouTube forums and Cornerstone, Facebook and YouTube, they're gonna tear you apart. There are some nice people, don't get me wrong, there are some great people that want to help you. But when you go on Cornerstone, it's all help. And you send a message out, and you like two minutes later, you're getting nine responses on how you know you can get some help. Wow. Which is amazing. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01But yeah, it is unfortunate. That's I guess that's the way of the world. I don't know. It's uh I I've seen some nasty threads on there, and I'm like, ooh, yeah, that's bad. I feel bad for the person because I'm like, man, they genuinely wanted help. And then you get these bozos on here that are just like shredding them. I'm like, that ain't any good. Like that's not gonna help. No, it's it really comes uh from self-serving one of the things about cornerstone, like you said, people are helping. We have a culture of like we're gonna serve others, and if if I take care of you, someone else is taking care of me, I don't have to worry about it. I think that's where it comes down to the the just, and this is not just dog forms on Facebook, this is just general social media land. It's it's a self-serving ecosystem of I'm going to make myself feel better, and sometimes that involves putting other people down, which is unfortunate because that is a dead end street, anyways. But yeah, um, we're glad you're we're glad you found us, man. I'm I'm glad you you got into the culture that's supporting you.
SPEAKER_00I'm so happy it just popped right up on Facebook. You know, the the forum that I was getting beat up on, all of a sudden, Cornerstone pops up and one of those sponsored and said, Hey, you know, I was like, this is awesome, you know. Um, but I like, you know, like I said, Marlene was, you know, don't they one guy even told me to get rid of my dog and you know, oh get her get rid of her and just get a field gold. And and um after that, that drove me. I was like, no, like she's gonna be a hunting dog, she's gonna be great. Um cornerstone, it you helped me out a hundred percent. Wow.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I believe most dogs can be trained, and most dogs can be trained to hunt. Like it's it's in there somewhere. Um, most dogs can be trained. It really comes down to, I mean, you clearly your resolve is there and you put in the work, man. And it seems like you had already had a really good dog trucking along there and uh had those challenges. I mean, your story's incredible. I hope it I know people that are out there that have that gunfire issue are maybe feeling a little bit of relief right now, knowing that okay, it is possible to work this thing around. Um what let me ask you this. What was so would you just say the secret to fixing your problem a gunfire was to go back and not try to actually directly fix the problem, but go back and work through a process so that the confidence was built?
Community Support And Core Takeaways
SPEAKER_00Yeah, a hundred percent. So I think going back and doing the uh beginning of the training kind of it helped Marlene forget about the gun shyness. Um, like I said, it built that confidence up for her. So I because if I think if I went right back to it, she I I don't think she would be a hunting dog right now. I think if you know, yeah, since I followed The steps from the beginning until then. I think you know, I it definitely helped her because if yeah, like I said, if I went in there, she she would have saw that blank pistol and the shotgun and said, no, running back to the truck. Um I recommend staying the course and don't skip any steps and you'll you'll find yourself that you you'll have a great hunting dog. Yeah, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's awesome. Um trying to think what else I got for you. I think I've got one. Ah, goodness. Let me ask you, actually, I do have a couple more questions. Yeah. What are you most excited about with both Marlene? So, Marlene, you still got uh a time plan for her. Like we're going here, we've got a vision where we want to go. You've got it, you're in a good place now. You overcame one of the greatest challenges that you could have, which could prevent her from being hunting dog. Now you've got a hunting dog. What are you most excited about for uh Marlene? And then what are you most excited about for Goose as far as this next year of training? Obviously, I think you mentioned you know you're planning to have you know goose pretty well trained by October. Any things on the horizon that stands out to you that you're most excited about?
SPEAKER_00I'm just excited to get you know Marlene back out in that field because it it was kind of unfortunate that you know pheasant hunting season was almost it was pretty much over. And I'm just excited to have her back out there and you know see what she can do. Um, you know, I'm bringing her back, like I bring her back to that field when I can when there's no snow on the ground. Um, and she absolutely loves it, and you can just see in her face that she's like looking for birds and everything. And I'm just you know, I can't wait to get her back out there. Um what I'm excited for Goose is um so for Marlene, she's not um she likes the water, but she's not in love with the water right now. So we're working on that with her. So there's always work to be done with her on that. Um what I'm excited for Goose is she loves the water. So I can't wait to get um duck hunting with goose. Um, you know, I don't know. I think Marlene's gonna be able to do it. You know, she knows all the commands and everything like that. It's just that water issue right now.
SPEAKER_01Um when you get them both working together and Goose is old enough to do it. Oh, you will that won't be a problem at all. That's if I've ever had a problem, I always get another dog involved. Like at member weekend, like you'll see like some dogs that have never been in the water, and then all of a sudden you see like 10 other dogs jump in the water. This dog's like, man, that looks fun. They go and jump in, and then it's a good thing.
SPEAKER_00That's what I'm excited about. That's what I'm excited about because I know Goose and I know like her parents were very you know, they're water dogs. Maggie, a field golden, she was down the bay. When she ran away, I knew where she was. Maggie was not trained. Maggie was not trained whatsoever. Great dog, but not trained. And when we got home from the beach and she wasn't in the house, she was down the bay swimming chasing ducks. So um she would have been a great hunting dog. Just I had no idea what to do. Um, but for Goose, yeah, I'm just I'm totally excited for her to be able to hunt with her sister. Um, you know, get out there and just see that her because Goose has a great prey drive right now, and I can't wait to see that in action.
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's awesome, man. Well, I'm excited. We're gonna have to have a uh another episode. We'll have to follow up uh this fall sometime after uh you get a couple of those hunts, and uh we'll we'll talk about Goose and Marlene. That's gonna be excited for you, and I'm excited we got this next you know series of months to train. That'll that'll really set you all up for success. So you ought to be able to gain some good traction this summer.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. I mean, we're gonna get some warm weather coming up and daylight saving, so it's it's it's it's gonna be um you know just amazing to get out there and have them run around and get to work. So yeah, I can't wait, man.
SPEAKER_01I'm I'm excited for you, and I just want to just say thank you for hopping on, man. This has been an incredible episode. I I know it's encouraging because there's a lot of people out there that need to hear that. I mean, honestly, if you look at some of the biggest gun dog problems, it's water fear and then uh gunfire fear, like the dogs, you know, something goes wrong. So I I hope this word spreads. I hope everybody that's got a dog listens to this podcast because I know it will help them and encourage them because it the truth is it's not over. And I will say you did things right. So looking back on it, like you I love what you said. You you avoided some of the major mistakes. One of the first mistakes someone makes is when that dog gets fear, they start saying, Oh, buddy, it's okay. That's a reinforcement, and then you've reinforced that fear. You chose not to do that, you did a lot of things right, even before the course. So that really, really helped you. Had you done the others, it would have probably been harder to unravel. But even if that happens, and even if someone's done that, like you still can overcome it. It just you just don't want to attack the problem head on because that in oftentimes makes the problem worse. Doing what you did, stepping back, going through, and then rebuilding the dog's confidence is pretty much the most proven way to solve those problems. Exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and once you see that confidence boost, I mean there's no stopping the dog. 100%.
SPEAKER_01Well, Jason, thank you for hopping on. It's been a pleasure. I look forward to the next episode with you, man. I I can't wait to share the story of Marlene and Goose continued. Hey, thanks for having me.