In the latest episode, Eric Boles and Dale Dixon explore the transformative concept of "seeing is believing," and how it impacts our attitudes and actions. Through an engaging anecdote about a flight experience, they highlight the importance of perception and how it shapes our behavior. The episode emphasizes the need for leaders to cultivate the ability to see things from multiple perspectives, fostering humility and creating a learning environment. Tune in to the "Game Changers" podcast to gain valuable insights on leadership, perception, and personal growth.
In the latest episode, Eric Boles and Dale Dixon explore the transformative concept of "seeing is believing," and how it impacts our attitudes and actions. Through an engaging anecdote about a flight experience, they highlight the importance of perception and how it shapes our behavior. The episode emphasizes the need for leaders to cultivate the ability to see things from multiple perspectives, fostering humility and creating a learning environment. Tune in to the "Game Changers" podcast to gain valuable insights on leadership, perception, and personal growth.
Dale:
you will find what you look for and seeing is believing. Welcome to the game changers podcast. I'm your host Dale Dixon. I help leaders be their best on stage and in front of the camera. I'm also the chief innovation officer for a better business bureau Eric Bowles coaches trains and inspires leaders to unleash their potential and the potential of those around them. Eric great to be with you again today.
eric boles:
I'm glad to be back with you, my friend.
Dale:
As we just dive right into the content for this podcast, one of my favorite maxims is you will usually find what you are looking for. So really, the question is, what are you out actively looking for?
eric boles:
That's right.
Dale:
And that ties right in, as I said, Oh, tell me more about what you're thinking. As you said, I think this podcast is seeing is believing. So go ahead and get us up to speed on your definition for seeing is believing.
eric boles:
I remember a long time ago, my mentor of mine, he would say often that, do you ask the question, do you see opportunity in every difficulty or difficulty in every opportunity, right? I love the maxim, I love the quote, sound good, but I never truly understood it at a deeper level, like how true that is, how you see things. I didn't realize, and I like to start, that perception truly is power, right? Because if your perception is not right, it's kind of like a math equation. If that part's not right, it's hard to make the rest of it right. I shared the story before to different groups, but I remember on a flight, I'm on this flight, Dale headed to Houston. This was a number of years ago. But I was going down there to speak with NASA. It was a great opportunity. I was going to speak with NASA. And the primary focus was on obviously teams and all those different areas like that. But we're going to talk about this, the power or significance of attitude when it comes to performance in teams. And those who are listening know that attitude is defined as a habitual way of thinking. It kind of controls our spontaneous reactions, right? Like how I... Anytime you want to know what somebody's attitude is, just pay attention to how they react or respond. It kind of gives you an insight of their attitude. But what I didn't realize is how significantly attitude is influenced by how you see something. So I'm on this flight, heading down there to talk to NASA about attitude. All right, we're all on board because the guy's speaking about a positive attitude. As I walk down the aisle... I noticed that, you know, the plane is packed. So not quite in the X-row. Those who know me, I'm about 6'4", 235, 40 pounds. So I'm not the smallest guy in the world. And you know how Murphy's Law works. I look in the row I'm in, who's sitting next to me, who's the two guys next to me? The other two biggest guys in the plane. And what's funny, Dale, is the exit row that we looked two spots down have three women in it. Two of them have their feet in the chair. Okay, so,
Dale:
All
eric boles:
have none
Dale:
tucked
eric boles:
of those
Dale:
up
eric boles:
other
Dale:
curled
eric boles:
than me.
Dale:
up in a chair.
eric boles:
Yeah, yeah, curled up, you know, knees in elbows, right? Like, and they're sitting there, just plenty of room, turned towards each other and everything. I'm not saying that, you know, not because there's women, not because, but the three biggest guys are sitting right next to each other. Anyhow, when I walk up, I apologize to, I say, you know how it works, man. The guy on the outside sees me, he laughs. But the gentleman in the middle, who's the biggest guy, he gets up. He has, like, overall, like, look, clearly he looks like a farmer, right? Like he looks like he's a farmer out of Midwest, but like Paul Bunyan big, right? Like he's a big dude. Well, first of all, he never looked at me or acknowledged me. He finally stepped on the side. And then when I'm walking in, our shoulders hit. So I went for him. That's all. That's. objectively has taken place is that our shoulders bump each other. So I am already frustrated too but on a scale of one to ten I just went up to about a seven right in terms of like hey man I don't want to sit next to you either right so I sit down and then he sits down he's so wide that our shoulders can't help but hit again right and now I'm like now I'm getting angry okay but you know what ends up happening next competition that ever existed when two men have to sit next to each other on a plane. The dreaded armrest. Right? So who gets control over the armrest? It's Dale and both of us reach forward at the same time. So now you got, I have half of it, he has half of it. I can feel the pressure. Now I don't know if he's pushing, but I'm pushing. Right? Like I'm like holding on to it. I mean veins are showing up in my forearms. Dale, this is I couldn't even tell my wife. She was so, like when I told her later, she goes, are you kidding me?
Dale:
I'm
eric boles:
But
Dale:
going to go ahead and
eric boles:
I
Dale:
turn
eric boles:
was,
Dale:
it off.
eric boles:
all thought has left the building. The only thing I can picture, and this is what's going on in my head, is this guy doesn't like me, I don't like him. And you can pretend, you can put all kinds of reasons for that, you know what I'm saying? You can walk in, I look at him, big guy, he looks like he's from the farm Midwest. I walk in, I'm six foot four, 235 pounds. I'm a black guy, maybe it's... It's amazing what the mind can do. This isn't said out loud. Nobody likes to talk about it like this, that these kind of thoughts go in people's heads. But this was happening to me at that moment. I'm grabbing an unrest. I am so upset that I am literally thinking, man, this might turn serious, man. Now keep in mind, we still haven't said a word to each other at all. Nothing's been said. And these are all the stories going on in my own head, right? Mr. Positive Attitude guy, right? Dale, this is how it concludes. The plane starts up. We realize it's about to happen. He literally grabs the armrest even harder. And this is what he says. Oh, God. I've never flown before. Literally everything he's doing. because he's scared to death. The stories I told to myself, the attitude that I have, my frustration, everything. And all he said was, man this is the first time I'm flying my helicopter. And I didn't tell him everything I was thinking. I just turned around and said, oh man it's gonna be okay, man we're gonna do it. You'll be fine. But part of me was so embarrassed, so upset, but I realized how easy we can a sensitivity training at all? No. Did I have to go through a class or anything? No. What changed? My actions changed because my feelings changed. And my feelings changed because I could finally see correctly. My feelings and my actions weren't the problem. My perception was. I didn't see the situation right. This happens so often. And what's even crazier is If we're not even humble enough to know that we got to really work on, or more importantly, we have a choice on how we see, if you don't think you have a choice in how you see, then you start, you know, the statements say this way, we're far more rationalizing than rational. We gather information to prove we're not crazy. So if I didn't even give room for that change, I would have went the entire flight with a whole story in my head about a man. who's the nicest man in the world. I prejudged him. I had an attitude about him. I mean, I thought all kinds of crazy. I started thinking on his behalf about me and none of it was true. And the only thing that changed my attitude and everything was realized I didn't see it correctly in the first place. Now I say that kind of in a funny way because keep in mind, I was on my way to NASA to talk about the importance of positive attitude. And that is what I was doing. The running joke is. And I made it crazy that the very keynote speaker was coming down to talk to him. Got arrested for fighting on a plane. Anyhow, I share that story to all listening is to say this. The one thing we have to work hard on and where we should spend so much of our time, we spend so much time telling people don't feel this way or don't behave this way or don't act this way. when we should be spending more time figuring out how are we seeing things in the first place? And one of the responsibilities for leaders right now are our people seeing correctly? Am I seeing correctly? Because the process works like this, see, feel, act. And the part I got the most control over in that is how I see. Feeling in action is pretty automatic. But if I can understand the control I have. is how I see things in the first place. All of a sudden I start realizing just how much influence and control I really do have.
Dale:
I think about that saying everybody is fighting a battle you know nothing about.
eric boles:
Ugh.
Dale:
In that case, he was fighting a battle of the nerves flying for the first time.
eric boles:
Oh gosh
Dale:
And anybody
eric boles:
babe.
Dale:
who's anxious about flying should know what that's about. So
eric boles:
Yeah.
Dale:
it what a fantastic reminder of that and also think about how do we intentionally step back and view our circumstances as a third party bystander?
eric boles:
That is
Dale:
Because if,
eric boles:
so good.
Dale:
you know, in that moment where I'm... I think I know what that person is doing. I think I know what that person is thinking.
eric boles:
Yeah.
Dale:
If I were to step back and objectively say, so what could be going on here?
eric boles:
Yeah, yeah. And isn't it funny that, you know, the ability to see properly and not assume is huge because it establishes context, right? Like in the absence of context, I mean, everything looks right, you know, to you, right? And it reminds me of, you know, when... Stephen Covey talked about it years ago, talked about what happened when a father was on a bus, or I think it was a bus or a train, the kids are out of control and everybody's sitting around. It's, hell, but you're just judging that father. Why don't you get control of your kids? I mean, some of the people there were angry about it until the father simply says, I just lost my wife, so we're good. And none of those people had to go to a seminar. Nobody had to go to sensitivity training. Nobody had, just instantly, their feelings changed and because they felt differently, they behaved differently. Now all of a sudden, they were scared. What changed? Just what they could see. And your statement right at the beginning is everybody's fighting about this doesn't mean they're, you know, people hear this and think, so that means Everybody has to have some deep problem going on so we can't acknowledge the behavior. No, I'm just saying you're working with better information. When you go into stuff knowing that what you see is probably not all there is, almost guaranteed it's not. And so the further you can see, the more impactful and influential you can be. We use different words for that. We talk about how effective a great leader is or... influential person is. Why? Because they got vision. What does vision mean? They just see better. They just help others see. And because we can all see similarly, we feel a certain way, which then allows our behaviors and actions to align. Because we see the same thing. If we don't see the same thing, we're going to have all kinds of problems. And this is just the awareness of where I like to describe Adele is. If I would just slow down work on how I'm seeing it has saved me a boatload of frustration. There's times the way I see is accurate but there's probably a high probability that a lot of my angst and pain and suffering has to do with a sight problem more than a feeling or behavior problem. Everybody's trying to change behavior when I'm like if we can just change help people see better we're gonna help them probably act better.
Dale:
You also mentioned the word humility as you were talking
eric boles:
Mm.
Dale:
through that.
eric boles:
Yeah.
Dale:
And that ability to step back and observe a situation and acknowledge that there are some other things at play requires a significant amount
eric boles:
Oh, God,
Dale:
of
eric boles:
so
Dale:
humility
eric boles:
good. Yeah, man.
Dale:
for all of us as leaders.
eric boles:
Yes.
Dale:
So riff on the humility aspect for a while.
eric boles:
Yeah. Well, one of the things I love is with the word humility, you know, it comes from, humus, it's come from, it's actually the agricultural term, right? Like it means rich, fertile soil. That's kind of where it came from, like. my humility, that means the soil is receiving, it is able to grow. There's a learning environment. So you show me a humble leader. A humble leader isn't a leader who thinks less of themselves. They just think of themselves less often, right? And so they're interested versus worried about being interesting. They lean in. And so when somebody's humble, they're eager to learn. And people confuse that with style. We're not talking about personality. We're just talking about directionally, where you lean. Man, I might aggressively want to learn. I might lean in aggressively. I'm quiet even if I want to talk. But it's because I know there's so much more there. There's so much. And that's what we want to get to. Because if I can see more, now I have greater access. And I always say this way, like, the way I feel about something has everything to do with how I see it. The more I can see, there's a high probability my feelings for them or for it or whatever goes up. It strengthens, right? It shouldn't be shocking for us to realize how this works. Usually, most things I'm bored by, I just don't know enough about. And here's what I... discovered about this, Dale, is I can't explain it, but I have watched some documentaries lately that there's no way I would have ever in my lifetime been interested in that. But as we begin watching, my wife and I watch it, the further they go, the more interesting it becomes. And I'm like, wow! I never knew, like, you know, that could be so fascinating. I find myself not doing it. It sounds so crazy. Well, one night I was watching YouTube videos, like I'm telling you like 25 minutes long, of individuals whose primary job is to scrape and clean and cut the hoofs of cows. So a cow who has a bad hoof or donkey has a bad hoof or a horse, not even a horse, but donkeys and these cows, they go through it and file them down And I mean, I am just fascinated by it. Like, why am I interested in that? Well, not really, but the longer I stayed there, the more to it there was. And the reality is everything has a lot more to it there. I mean, what they say about an iceberg, only 2% to 5% of an entire iceberg above the surface. We judge everything by what we can see above the surface. And we don't try to see what's beneath it. But the minute we do, everything becomes far more fascinating.
Dale:
Yeah, I'm making a note that for a future episode, we're going to dive into the power of what I call childlike curiosity.
eric boles:
Oh, I love that. I
Dale:
So
eric boles:
love that.
Dale:
hold on to that one. And if you're listening, we'll be talking about that at a later date. So I was reading today and in the reading, it was really interesting on this humility aspect, because the author was talking about this idea that we're scared to be humble as leaders because the fear of being taken advantage of or being seen as weak. And he countered that by saying, it truly is the
eric boles:
Yeah.
Dale:
great paradox that when you are humble, it is actually the maximum level of self-confidence you can have in a situation. And the ability to do these things, to see, you know, seeing is believing, and to be aware, and number one, of what we're looking for, to be able to step back from a situation, to assess outside of ourselves objectively, to have a level of humility to do it. actually shows such a level of self confidence in the best way possible through these
eric boles:
Yeah,
Dale:
situations.
eric boles:
I love that you say that because I fundamentally believe that it's like humility, vulnerability, like the relationship between all those, you know, to be a vulnerable leader is actually, it is a confidence. It takes confidence to be vulnerable. It takes confidence to be humble, right? Even the word vulnerability, it means assailable to danger. It literally... presupposes risk, right? And we're saying that's what you need to do. You gotta be more, not risk averse, but more risk taking in your humility, in leaning in. And the reality is, I'm glad you said it so well, when a leader's willing to go first, and look at, when they go to see more, because the reality is unique, this is the difference between, and if this was sports, I've said it often, the really great, coaches, they're really great leaders. They are also making decisions by what they can see, but not just what they can see physically. They can see beyond, they can see through. What they see is deeper, it's either further or deeper. They look at a person and not just look at them, but they see them and because they can see them, they tap into the the feelings and if I can tap into the feelings, I can tap into the actions. We know we need structure. We know we need, those things are a given. When people hear this, they're like, oh, but we got stuff to get done. You're gonna get it done. But if you don't tap into and see more of those you're leading, it's gonna take you longer to get what you're trying to get done done. I mean, you know, the best way to connect with someone is to see them, like to really. see them and that is that takes work because in the absence of usually things that I don't The reason I can't see is because I'm just looking at you I'm not seeing you and if I'm just looking at you then all I can look at is how you either behave and How I translate your behavior has far less to do with you and has more to do with all my previous experiences No one really looks at anything objectively, right? And this is what separates many good leaders from the others. So many of us are far more rationalizing than rational. We just don't realize that, man. We do very, the same way I make jokes about what I did with this gentleman on the plane, it's a great reminder. But the reality is, I do it all the time. And I don't just do it with a stranger, I do it in my house. There are certain things that are said to me by my family members, and because Who said it? I didn't hear it. Cause I don't see beyond where they're at. Like this is what I'm used to seeing, therefore this is what I'm seeing again. I have blind spots, right? And this is where that whole phrase, blind spots, comes from. It's a sensory locking out of what may be right in front of your face. This is why in, we call it. you know, if you ever looked at Skitoma cards, or, you know, where something's obvious right in front of you, but you can't see it. And they're like, why can't I see it? And why do they call it Skitoma? Because in the Greek Skitoma means blindness, right? I put right in front of you, but you can't see it. We gotta realize people are walking Skitomas all the time. So you gotta look longer to be able to actually see what's there. And the leaders who understand that, they have access to information most people will never have because they can see.
Dale:
Before we hit the record button, you said something really interesting. It's hard to see wrong, but do right.
eric boles:
Yes. It is such a simple phrase, but it's true. If I see wrong, I can't do right. And if I do right, it's by accident. And I know that's a good phrase, but you see right, you do right. Why? Because if I see right, I'm going to feel right. If I feel right, I'm going to do right. So see, feel, act. That's the order. And what we like to do is instead of starting with how are we seeing this, we like to start making correction as how are we doing this. And I'm telling you, that is the, that's the branches, right? Like we're hacking at the branches. And why are we, why is that bad? Because branches grow back, right? The root of that is how we see. If we can see properly, now we're striking the root. If I can get us to see properly, then I don't have to worry so much on how we feel and how we're gonna act. So we need to take the time early to see properly. See right, do right. See wrong, do wrong. Leaders, our job is to help our people see.
Dale:
And when our people see us leading by example, it
eric boles:
Come
Dale:
makes
eric boles:
on.
Dale:
a massive difference in how they see right.
eric boles:
Come on, man, that's it, that's it. You know, I wish somebody said to me that, okay, so if I see right, they never do, everybody just does, I said no. But if we can see right collectively, when we see right together, we're right. Now we have the process to make things right. Right? You know, this is, it's just not, you know, we make it right, because we can see right, and we're constantly working on that. So. When we are off, we can get course-corrected faster. And I'm connected at a deeper level. Man, when I am working to see properly, and you mentioned it about humility, one reason that works so powerfully is sometimes in order to truly see, it's no longer about me. Like, while I'm working on that, I am not consumed with myself, right? If I can't see properly, what I'm seeing is not necessarily objective, what's there. What I'm seeing is completely influenced by my past experience and stuff. So in many cases, I'm projecting. I'm not even actually seeing what's there. And so this is why that should create at least enough humility in us to even if I'm reacting, even if I say something's not okay, but at least it creates enough pause, at least to either validate that, or I get new information that I changed. I'm not talking about function without feeling. No, man, there's certain things I'm passionate about, feel for. I can't see on my reaction. But because I know how this process works, it should at least create pause enough to then humbly assess what's actually going on. Sometimes I just need to pause a little bit before I just completely jump to conclusions, like I do still far too often.
Dale:
Another way to visualize this is through target fixation. We, you get focused or you know fixated on a target in your in its mental in this case. You know I think of it, riding a bicycle down the road and you get fixated on the rock on the side of the road and if you just. focus on it, you will hit the rock, even though in your head you're saying don't do that, don't do that.
eric boles:
I'm sorry.
Dale:
And in a previous podcast, remember you talking about football and receivers and the way they don't just look at the football, but they're looking at the tip of the football
eric boles:
That's right.
Dale:
as it comes in. So
eric boles:
Yep.
Dale:
it's what are we choosing to actively be looking for?
eric boles:
Yeah.
Dale:
And it needs a level of specificity.
eric boles:
It does.
Dale:
in order for us to be successful.
eric boles:
Yeah, Dale, you hit it right on. And this is the this is the amazing thing that everything we talk about the way we feel and the way we behave, those are those follow. They don't necessarily like I say all the time. People say, Eric, you emphasize feelings because feelings follow. It doesn't mean they're important. They are. They're incredible indicators. They give us energy. It's the emotion. But remember, feelings rarely lead there. They're terrible leaders sometimes. Sometimes they can be off, because the way you feel has everything to do with how you see. And if you're seeing off, then your feeling is also off. That's one, anytime I run into a person, it's like, I'm like, I'm just mad. My daughter's like, I'm upset. I said, why you, because I just feel, and she goes, and I said, all that may be accurate, and I don't downplay it, I don't, I never tell her how to feel either. I never say don't feel that way, or don't, no. The question is, what are you thinking about, honey? What are you seeing? Now, if you can articulate that to me, now we can maybe assess how you're looking at something. Because now we're talking about the root. But trying to get her to change the way she feels without changing the root of that feeling, that grows back. That comes back. We're not looking for temporary relief. And so when you talk about lock on, you know, you're talking about, you know, the focus smaller, like when I talk about catching the tip. Psychological, there's a psychological term called lock on, lock out. Whatever I lock on to, I lock out everything that's inconsistent with it. So if I lock on wrong, if I lock on to the wrong thing, everything I see that supports that is probably wrong as well, right? Okay? But if I can lock on to the right thing, that helps me then lock out everything else. It was amazing when the gentleman on the plane helped me lock on to the right thing. I locked out every other excuse for him. Like all of a sudden, he became the greatest guy in the world, just like that, like just like that. And the only thing that changed was my perception. He didn't have to go to a class. He didn't have to prove it to me. He didn't have to do any of that stuff. And immediately I wrote, what an incredible guy. I mean. It was amazing how many things we had in common, how I talked through him, how he said thank you so much for there. He laughed about being the biggest guy, and he said, man, I don't know if I'm gonna be able to even get out that exit road door. I mean, we had so many good humorous moments, but I'm gonna be transparent with you, Dale. Like, it would be embarrassing for me if he knew all the things that were going through my mind before I got that information. I don't tell this story like, ah, no, that's the sad part. And there's sometimes I get to sit back and go, how many other missed unbelievable opportunities have I lost out on? Just in my life, because I saw wrong. I mean,
Dale:
That's
eric boles:
it's humbling,
Dale:
a sobering
eric boles:
man.
Dale:
question.
eric boles:
Yeah, it is.
Dale:
That is a sobering question for all of us to contemplate.
eric boles:
Come
Dale:
It applies
eric boles:
on.
Dale:
to every single person
eric boles:
Yep.
Dale:
listening, every single one of us.
eric boles:
Mm.
Dale:
But to lighten the moment, who actually got to use the armrest for the rest of the flight?
eric boles:
I just turned kind of sideways. I mean he was so big he had nowhere else to put his arm. Right? So I let him have the arm rest. Mine was on the side of it but for some reason man after that conversation too I didn't even think about the arm rest anymore. I mean
Dale:
But
eric boles:
somebody
Dale:
did the
eric boles:
asked what's
Dale:
person
eric boles:
the most
Dale:
in
eric boles:
valuable
Dale:
front of you lean their seat back?
eric boles:
This is what I do gotta tell you, Dale. There was some good pre-planning. Anytime, all three of us all tapped the people in front of them after the plane took off and said, hey, you have no place to, you cannot recline this seat because there's no place your seat will recline to. Our knees were right in the back of the chair. But appreciate the people in front of us. They kinda understood. Oh man,
Dale:
Yeah, very good. Well,
eric boles:
anyhow,
Dale:
thank
eric boles:
my friend.
Dale:
you for this so much to think about
eric boles:
So
Dale:
as
eric boles:
much my
Dale:
we
eric boles:
man.
Dale:
think
eric boles:
Yep.
Dale:
about, you know, what are we looking for day in and day out and making sure that we're looking, looking for the right things because
eric boles:
Yeah.
Dale:
as we said at the beginning, seeing is believing.
eric boles:
That's
Dale:
So
eric boles:
it.
Dale:
thank you for that reminder. Alright, this wraps up this week's conversation. Thank you so much, Eric, we can let folks know that they can find you at the game changers inc.com you're also active on LinkedIn and Facebook. If you haven't subscribed to this podcast while you're in your favorite podcast listening app, go ahead and subscribe. While you're there, we would really appreciate it if you could just say something nice about the podcast
eric boles:
something nice about talking to
Dale:
through
eric boles:
us.
Dale:
a review, and then leave us a five star rating. Hopefully we have earned that from you today. This is the Game Changers helping you to unleash your best in life and work.