Feedback: The Right Words at the Right Time

Unleash your best in life and work with the Game Changers Podcast! Join Eric Boles and  Dale Dixon as they explore the power of feedback and the importance of timing. Discover how the right words at the right time can transform your leadership and personal growth. From positive feedback to constructive criticism, learn how to make your feedback more meaningful and impactful. Dive into the nuances of giving and receiving feedback and gain actionable insights to become a more effective leader. Don't miss out on this podcast that will revolutionize the way you approach feedback and unleash your potential. Subscribe now and become a game changer in your own life and work!

Transcript

Dale:
the right words at the right time to unleash your best in life and work. Welcome to the game changers podcast. I'm your host Dale Dixon. I help leaders be their best on stage and in front of the camera. And I'm the chief innovation officer for a better business bureau. Eric Bowles coaches trains and inspires leaders to unleash their potential and the potential of those around them. Great to be with you, Eric.

eric boles:
to be with you my man.

Dale:
Today, we're talking about feedback. And it's not just the importance of feedback. I think we've covered that in previous episodes. But you've had some real world experiences just in the past week just in the past couple of hours in working through the timing of feedback. So when we say the right words at the right time, it's that right time piece that we're really going to dive in to today.

eric boles:
Yes, yeah, you know, I, and those who are listening right now, we've all had this experience in not attaching, trying to attach intent on the back end, but sometimes we may have heard the right words, but we didn't hear it at the right time. And because we didn't hear it at the right time, it's hard to wonder not were those actually the right words, you know what

Dale:
Mm.

eric boles:
I'm saying? Because timing does. a matter and you know, is it at the right time I can do something with it? Is it at the right time with greater context involved? Not only what I heard, but what I delivered. And so I like to say this is the nuance of leaders. This is really nuance of living life. But for many leaders who are listening right now, everybody talks about how important feedback is. But I don't think we do enough of this. is having the conversation of the timing of that feedback. You know, I go through enough, I've said before, go through enough assessments, 360s, performance reviews, other assessments, it happens all the time. And I often get asked a question, you know, Eric, can you work with my team? They're kind of shocked by the feedback, or leaders who are going through it, it's like, ah, I'm really concerned about what might come out. And he goes, what should I do about that? I said, to be concerned. They said, about what comes out? I said, no. Be concerned that you don't already know. Be concerned that it's going to surprise you in the first place because you're going to work hard anyways. And there's nothing more painful than finding out information. And you've been going off one expectation or even your motive only to discover that what you've been doing hasn't been hitting the mark. And you could have known that already. And vice versa. To have someone in front of you who's been working hard on something, you give them the feedback. You see how they take it and they look hurt. And you're like, ah, I want them to be better at taking this feedback. It's not that they didn't take the feedback. But by the time they found out the feedback, how long did they go working on that feedback? I mean, so you, it's, It's a double loss. It's the feedback that I'm not hitting the mark. But then I went this long not knowing I wasn't hitting the mark. Right, like you know what I'm saying, because I've been putting all that effort in. I don't get that time or that effort back in not only effort and time, but the emotional hit we take. It's already hard enough to find out you're not hitting the mark. But to have to find out late that you're not hitting the mark. Oh.

Dale:
So I think about a continuum of time. And I think most of our listeners understand

eric boles:
that

Dale:
that a

eric boles:
a

Dale:
once

eric boles:
once

Dale:
a year

eric boles:
a year

Dale:
evaluation

eric boles:
evaluation

Dale:
just isn't even

eric boles:
isn't

Dale:
in the

eric boles:
even

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realm

eric boles:
in the realm

Dale:
of possibility.

eric boles:
of possibility

Dale:
It's so

eric boles:
in

Dale:
far

eric boles:
so far

Dale:
outside

eric boles:
outside

Dale:
of what high

eric boles:
of what

Dale:
performers

eric boles:
high performers are doing.

Dale:
are doing.

eric boles:
But there's this,

Dale:
But

eric boles:
and

Dale:
there's this,

eric boles:
I'm thinking

Dale:
and I'm thinking from a

eric boles:
from

Dale:
timing

eric boles:
a timing

Dale:
perspective.

eric boles:
perspective,

Dale:
If we're having

eric boles:
if we're

Dale:
a

eric boles:
having

Dale:
once

eric boles:
a

Dale:
a

eric boles:
once

Dale:
week,

eric boles:
a week

Dale:
oh, three

eric boles:
O3

Dale:
one on

eric boles:
one on

Dale:
one,

eric boles:
one,

Dale:
and I'm

eric boles:
and I'm

Dale:
providing

eric boles:
providing

Dale:
feedback

eric boles:
feedback

Dale:
on a weekly

eric boles:
on a weekly

Dale:
basis,

eric boles:
basis,

Dale:
am I hearing

eric boles:
am I

Dale:
you

eric boles:
hearing

Dale:
say

eric boles:
you

Dale:
that

eric boles:
say

Dale:
even

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that

Dale:
needs to

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it

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be

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needs to

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tightened

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be typed

Dale:
up more

eric boles:
up

Dale:
that

eric boles:
more than

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in the

eric boles:
in

Dale:
moment

eric boles:
the moment

Dale:
where

eric boles:
where...

Dale:
something's I see something's not working or I'm questioning something, I'm providing an instant piece of feedback or what? Let's define the timing aspect.

eric boles:
something, I see something's not working, or I'm questioning something, I'm providing an instant piece of feedback. Let's define the timing aspect. Yeah, yeah, there are things that we, in our weekly one-on-ones, if this is the pace or the rhythm by which feedback happens, you know, because sometimes you may not be around to see something in the in-between time, but you say that happens. And this is why I always think... you know, instead of adding a different component, just make those one-on-ones more meaningful. Like make sure it's just not a reporting out. Make sure you dig inside of, right? But many times, like, I was great. I'm a particular client that we just began working with and she says something yesterday that I never, it was so good. She goes, as a leader, what you call out, what you walk by and call out or what you walk by and don't call out is also feedback. That's telling people what's acceptable and what isn't. So in a retail, I had a good friend of mine named Charlie Davis. He had a huge influence on me and he was an executive director for a YMCA and then he became CEO for YMCA Pearson, Kitsap County where I live. But I remember every why that he led, the parking lot would always be spotless. And they were like, why would it be spotless? Because Charlie never walked by a piece of paper in the parking lot without picking it up. Now he can say the parking lot needs to be clean, but every time he reached down and pick it up, it said to everybody, the parking lot needs to be clean. We picked it up when he walked around the place. He always picked up something. And people were like, oh, that said a lot. Yeah. He said it. in his actions also he said it in his words. Also when he saw someone do it, he praised it in the moment. When he saw somebody not do it, he said it in the moment. The feedback was constant. So people knew what better look like. They knew what he was looking for. So when they would have their one-on-ones, there was no surprise that, you know, hey, Charlie defined you caring about this place. You caring about all of our members in terms of, hey. keeping a place that allows them to want to come to that's clean. Well, this particular one I had, she talked about that all the time. She does even in the work environment. One of your people on the team has a good meeting. Don't just say you had a good meeting. Give a film review, quick one. Hey, great meeting. I loved how you called this out and directly dealt with this. Hey, a side note on the next time, you might want to do this. You didn't need a 15 minute, do it in the moment. It's just a few little words, but it matters. Also, it creates an environment where people go, because now I can course correct, now it's reinforced, now I don't have to remember to talk about it. And then when we have our official formalized one-on-one, now that can allow for some of the deeper feedback or direction or engagement that happens. But I think the missing piece so many leaders are doing is they're not giving feedback. frequent enough and if they are it's incomplete. It's either one side or the other. You know, either it's all things that still need to be fixed because those are obvious and I always tell leaders who just give feedback of what's not right, y'all that's not hard to do. Okay? We naturally gravitate to what still needs to be done. So giving feedback about what's not right is I'm not telling people not to do that. I'm just saying that's obvious. But the either working or more importantly, Dale, are the things that lead up to the results. I always like to say, are you giving feedback on the causes that lead to that result? So if somebody gave the right effort or called something out or are diligent or they came back in court, acknowledge that because what you acknowledge you get more of. So anyhow, not to talk

Dale:
Let's

eric boles:
all day.

Dale:
because as you said, we gravitate to be able to point out what's wrong. Let's rest there a moment and talk about how to make that type of. Criticism as constructive as possible. So if you know, words matter, timing matters, calling it out in the moment matters, how do we make that as constructive as possible?

eric boles:
It's when you contextualize it to something bigger. If it's only, like for instance, I work with a very large growth store on the East Coast. They're phenomenal. But the example is this, is the CEO walks in. And every time the CEO walks in, or you'll see a VP who's doing a store visit, they'll walk in and they'll notice. a piece of fruit that's bruised or something isn't right or isn't shelved right. And they say, hey, that needs to be done better. Okay, that's in the wrong, that needs to be here, right? Now, clearly because of who said it, they're gonna make sure that's right. But if they don't know why it matters, it becomes everything, right? One of my mentors and he's had a huge influence on my life, but he was an executive for... for a large retailer who sells coffee, they sell green coffee. But I never forget, he had a saying that he would often say, it's not about the mints, right? It's not about the mints. And the reason he would say it's not about the mints was there one time they moved the mints, they had to move the mints or something and they moved the mints and people were like, oh, does it need to sit here or they sit here? Well, the bigger issue is, how does it best serve the customer? The reason for moving the mints. is because of what it does for the customer. So many times when we have feedback, and even if it's a critique, it's, hey, I need you to do more of this, and this is the reason is, the reason is it allows us to be more effective here, which leads to the ultimate goal we're going after. But if you just make it about that one action to be course corrected, they think it's just about that action. And so they do that every time without understanding the bigger reason behind it. You may have heard the saying once, it was the... It was funny, there was a particular young woman who was making a ham and she would always cut the ends off the ham, right, and then put it in the oven. So one day her husband was like, why are you cutting off the end? Because this is how you do it and this is how you do it effectively. Well one time she ends up asking not her mother but her grandma. She goes, because this is how my mom did it, this is how my grandma did it. Well she asked her grandma about it, she said, grandma, can't you tell them the best way to make the ham is to cut the ends off? She was like, no, baby, I cut the ends off because that was the size pan I had. Right? So even though you give somebody feedback, if they don't know why, all of a sudden, you get stuck in that spot. And so even when we give feedback, remember, the danger is that feedback can cause them to not think broadly, make them think small. Just include the why behind the feedback. This doesn't take forever. Like I used to think, hey, Eric, like I had a coach who told me when I was in Green Bay, Mike Holmgren, I'll never forget one time I was running half speed and he's like, come here. And I got over there and I had a coach, John Gruden at the time who had, he would say a whole lot of words, right, he, John Gruden, I mean, he had a lot to say, right? But Holmgren would say, Coach Holmgren would say in just a few words, he came to me, he says, I need you to run full speed every time, do you understand? I said, yes. Okay, and I was like, oh man, I got a run full. He says, and it's not just because of you. If you don't run full speed through these other three routes are dependent on you getting out of the way. So when you go full speed, it's not about you just getting the ball. Running full speed to help you get the ball, but it also creates greater space for these other routes that are coming behind you. It was a game changer, because I wouldn't run full speed if I didn't think I was gonna get the ball. Man, you're more connected than just that. And for so many people, if you give them full speed, just feedback, run full speed. Now I'm doing it just because my boss said so. But I'm not always that motivated. But when I realize other pieces are connected, our greater goal of being effective are connected to me doing this one part, all of a sudden, now I'm getting feedback and I have a greater context of how it impacts everything.

Dale:
It's really the chess player being able to see everything on the board, having that perspective. And then as the pieces are moving, helping the individual people on the chessboard, so to speak, understand their place, where they're going

eric boles:
Right.

Dale:
and the reason why it's that context piece.

eric boles:
Adele, what you just got through saying, this is why sometimes when we give feedback and say, hey, this is what I want you to do, sometimes it's good for a leader and we definitely do not want to insult people's intelligence or come across patronizing or anything like that, but sometimes we didn't say, okay, this is what I asked you to do, but why do you think so? Why do you think I have you do it? Now, that setting matters. I wouldn't necessarily, in a group setting, I usually share the why. In a... in one-on-one setting, I can ask the why of them. Just to make sure we're aligned. I'm asking a why, not because I don't think you know, I'm asking a why to make sure we're aligned in terms of our why. So I gave you this feedback, why do you believe it's important? Well, because the answer can't be just because I said so. I want them to be committed to me as a leader. I want them to know I trust them and believe in them. But also, I want their motive and their drive to be greater than just their relationship with me. Because that wanes. Some days, they ain't gonna be happy with it. Some days, I can tick them off. And so, if I'm completely dependent on their commitment tied to me, I don't want all that level of responsibility. But if I can make sure they're connected to the bigger purpose, and I can reinforce that, in all our little engagements, it changes everything. I tell leaders right now, when you go about giving feedback this way, it makes giving feedback and going through the process of giving back way more exciting, way more fun. It's way more intriguing because now you're truly growing your people, you're teaching, you're developing. Then the same thing I would encourage people, when you're receiving feedback, there's no hesitation to go, I gotcha, and I'm okay, I'm gonna work on that. But can you tell me the why behind that? So this isn't just what your leaders, as a leader, what I give. I'm also, if I'm being influenced by others, I ask for it as well. Because I want to know more, and it influences. Now it helps me see, and the better I see, the better I will do. And so this is why right words, right time, but the context of that is so important.

Dale:
This reminds me of conversations that I've had with my 20 year old daughter who's working inside of a. a local operation for a national chain. And I, most of our listeners, both you and I have been in this in one of these in the past. And she talks about somebody from the corporate office coming through every couple of months. And you know, it's, they use a seagull approach, fly in, crap all over everything. And then they fly

eric boles:
Yeah.

Dale:
out and And the damage it does to the local operation is so significant when you flip it and look at it from the perspective of how you're recommending it be done. If this person would come in and actually invest some time make time

eric boles:
That's

Dale:
to

eric boles:
right.

Dale:
share the why behind

eric boles:
Yeah.

Dale:
Hey, I noticed that the counters not set

eric boles:
Yeah.

Dale:
up. like we want it to and here's if it's set up this way, here's the result of that. Or I see that this is happening inside the back office. And if we did it a different way, like this, here's the here's how it impacts the business down the line. It provides a sense of ownership for the people who are receiving the feedback

eric boles:
Thank you.

Dale:
and gives them a reason to be excited for the next time rather than dread having that person

eric boles:
I know. I

Dale:
fly through.

eric boles:
know.

Dale:
and make their deposit inside quotation marks.

eric boles:
Dale, I wish I could sit down every single leader who has to visit or whoever's role it is from the corporate office or from anywhere else who stops by and comes through. And you're going to have to be there anyway. So you might as well do it well.

Dale:
Hmm.

eric boles:
You're going to make the visit anyways. So you might as well do a good job at it. It kind of reminds me of the... The great Bill Russell quote, we got to play three games in three nights. So if we have to play the game, we might as well win. So you got to visit, you might as well do it well. So what makes that powerful from an example standpoint is the beautiful thing about having someone who flies in from a higher perspective, they have a bigger view of, from a strategic standpoint, of what's taking place, right? Like why we want this and what, but you got to share the why. But the other thing that helps them is you also think for that person flying in, you also need to know what it's like at a ground level because that should influence some of your decision making as well. So the feedback goes both directions. Here's what we see from up here, which is very safe. The closer you get down to where the action happens, we have to have your perspective as well, because that can begin to frame how both of these have to work together. So often, when an individual who are flying from a higher level fly in, they have a tendency to tell people how it should be, which is good, right? But they don't always take feedback coming back the other direction, which can influence then how it gets done. Because you need both. This is why, like I talk about all the time, but in the NFL, people are shocked by this. They're like, hey, the coaches call the plays and are, do you know how much influence the coaches? The play calling is just as much influenced by what they hear from the players who are actually on the field Then just where they're sitting above the communication is going all directions So you got coaches up in the press box you have the you have the coaches on the sideline You have the players on the field you even have backup players who are watching their position Giving insight to the player or giving insight to the feedback loop is going all over place Which then makes the decision or the action we're gonna take as thoughtful as possible. This is why the feedback when we talk about right words, right time is multiple directions. It can't just be one way. We want people seeing from the press box. Man, there's even a different perspective. Back in the day when they used to have the Goodyear blunt up in the air. That's even a higher perspective, right? But it's not concerned about the play calling. It is being able to let us know the weather conditions that are on the way. People are like, that matters. Oh yeah, you start calling pretty aggressive plays if you know a rainstorm's on the way or if you know a snowstorm's on the way during the game. Like there's certain plays we're calling now that we're not gonna call later. How did we get that? Someone's giving us insight from a much bigger perspective of what's on the horizon. And it's getting all those pieces to work together and that's why these feedback loops are critical.

Dale:
I'm guessing

eric boles:
I guess

Dale:
we've

eric boles:
we've

Dale:
probably

eric boles:
kind of buried

Dale:
buried the

eric boles:
the

Dale:
lead

eric boles:
lead

Dale:
on the

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on

Dale:
most

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the most

Dale:
powerful

eric boles:
powerful

Dale:
and important

eric boles:
and important

Dale:
type

eric boles:
type

Dale:
of feedback

eric boles:
of feedback,

Dale:
and that

eric boles:
and that

Dale:
would

eric boles:
would

Dale:
be

eric boles:
be

Dale:
positive

eric boles:
positive

Dale:
feedback

eric boles:
feedback

Dale:
in

eric boles:
in

Dale:
the

eric boles:
the

Dale:
moment.

eric boles:
moment. So

Dale:
So as

eric boles:
as

Dale:
we

eric boles:
we

Dale:
wrap

eric boles:
wrap

Dale:
up,

eric boles:
up,

Dale:
let's

eric boles:
let's

Dale:
talk

eric boles:
talk

Dale:
through

eric boles:
through

Dale:
about

eric boles:
about

Dale:
the

eric boles:
the

Dale:
intentionality

eric boles:
intentionality

Dale:
of

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of

Dale:
a

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a

Dale:
leader

eric boles:
leader

Dale:
to

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to

Dale:
watch

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watch

Dale:
for

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for

Dale:
and

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and

Dale:
call

eric boles:
call

Dale:
out

eric boles:
out.

Dale:
the right things along with the reason.

eric boles:
Yeah, so positive feedback, the most, let me call it, I like to call it not just positive feedback, I like to call it powerful feedback, right? Because positive is truly powerful. And one reason it's powerful is you have to search for it. You have to, I always like to say, when you're given positive feedback, especially when the results haven't fully manifested in themselves, because leaders, you gotta understand this, if you're only celebrating when the scoreboard changes, you're no different than a fan. you're no different than if everybody's celebrating when the scoreboard's working in your favor. So how does that separate you from anybody else? Okay. But your strength as a leader is you are celebrating the causes that lead up to the scoreboard changing. So you're paying attention, and you gotta find those. This is why I tell leaders, you gotta be a good finder in the midst of fault, right? Like instead of being a fault finder, be a good finder, but that's intentionality. You... You got to work to see that, right? So I'm going in looking for the things that I can celebrate, praise, reinforce. Why? So I ignore the negative. No, but some of the things that you are seeing that are the causes of the results, if they do more of it, you will get less of the things you're complaining about. I mean, this is how it works. This is why you got to be so intentional with this process. So it's leaning in, it becomes, Powerful feedback and the powerful feedback is you're finding roots that lead to the fruit you want and you got to do that on Purpose that is not an easy process, but it's the most powerful form of feedback you can get

Dale:
Finding roots to the fruit you want.

eric boles:
Mmm.

Dale:
You said it.

eric boles:
That's it, my man. That's it.

Dale:
Okay. Well, I think we've got some actionable things for us to work on this week out

eric boles:
Yes,

Dale:
of this

eric boles:
my

Dale:
conversation.

eric boles:
guy.

Dale:
Thank you so much.

eric boles:
Yes,

Dale:
This

eric boles:
sir.

Dale:
has been fantastic. The most important thing, be looking for the roots that deliver the fruit you want. I love that. We'll have three asks of our listeners out of this number one if you haven't already please subscribe to this podcast you can do it inside the app that you're listening to us on we're all over the place whether it's Spotify or on Apple Google Play you can also rate and review the podcast while you are there if you would give us a five star rating we would really appreciate that write a sentence or two in a review on how this has impacted your leadership and what's happening inside your organization. And then we'd love to have you connect with us. You can find Eric at the game changers inc.com Eric is also active on LinkedIn and Facebook. You can find him there. I'm at Dale Dixon media.com and would love to hear from you. If you've got a topic you'd like us to cover in the pod upcoming podcast, definitely shoot us a line and give us some ideas on some on some leadership issues that we could tackle right here on the podcast. So thank you for that. Eric, you have a fantastic rest of your week.

eric boles:
You too,

Dale:
And

eric boles:
my friend.

Dale:
we will catch up next week. This is the game changers unleashing your best in life and work.