In this episode, we explore the disruptive forces shaping our world and how leaders can navigate them. Eric Boles and Dale Dixon unpack the key principles of change management and the role of AI in transforming businesses. From embracing transparency and addressing resistance to the power of a growth mindset, they provide valuable insights to help leaders navigate the ever-evolving landscape of disruption. They also discuss the fears and concerns surrounding AI, the importance of clear communication and setting boundaries, and the potential for AI to free up employees to focus on high-value work. Join us as we uncover the strategies and mindset needed to thrive amidst disruption and harness the power of AI as a game-changer.
In this episode, we explore the disruptive forces shaping our world and how leaders can navigate them. Eric Boles and Dale Dixon unpack the key principles of change management and the role of AI in transforming businesses. From embracing transparency and addressing resistance to the power of a growth mindset, they provide valuable insights to help leaders navigate the ever-evolving landscape of disruption. They also discuss the fears and concerns surrounding AI, the importance of clear communication and setting boundaries, and the potential for AI to free up employees to focus on high-value work. Join us as we uncover the strategies and mindset needed to thrive amidst disruption and harness the power of AI as a game-changer.
Dale Dixon [00:00:02]:
A principled based approach to artificial intelligence to unleash your best in life and work. Welcome to the Game Changers Podcast. I am your host, Dale Dixon. I help leaders be their best on stage and in front of the camera. I'm also the Chief Innovation Officer for a Better Business Bureau. Eric Boles coaches, trains and inspires leaders to unleash their potential and the potential of those around them. Eric, great to be with you today for a conversation about artificial intelligence. So I'm going to let listeners know that artificial intelligence is very much in play with this podcast.
Dale Dixon [00:00:37]:
There's a number of tools that are being used behind the scenes and hopefully you don't even know it, don't necessarily see it, but it's happening. But I've had a number of conversations with leaders, Eric, in the last several weeks and just have know as we do, keeping our finger on the pulse of what's going on around this idea of artificial intelligence. And there's some fear there's definitely unknown around it. But I think for the purposes of our conversation today, it would be fascinating to look at disruption because artificial intelligence is somewhere on that continuum of disruption as far as new technology. But take the technology away, take AI away and let's just look at a principled based approach to handling disruption in our businesses, no matter where that disruption is coming from. And we'll use AI as an example for this. But I really think the principles apply to the AI disruption just as the principles have applied in the past to other disruptions that we've faced in our business.
Eric Boles [00:01:44]:
Completely concur. It takes me back a number of years ago, and it was described this way, in terms of how we typically deal with a disruption or deal with a change, especially when it catches us not by surprise, but can go to a place we may not have anticipated. Our first response is typically rejection. Like we reject it that's first. The second response is typically we can see how others can use it. I can see that's relevant for their business, but it's not necessarily relevant for mine. But then we move to the third step, which is we see how we can use it on a limited or relative basis. Right? So we use it in a very limited capacity.
Eric Boles [00:02:42]:
For some of us right now, it's maybe viewing it through how your kids used it in school or a CPT chat or I think that's the right CPT chat. I think I'm saying that correctly.
Dale Dixon [00:02:55]:
Chat GPT. Yeah, I've heard so many different variations on the theme, but we know exactly what you're talking about. We know what you mean.
Eric Boles [00:03:05]:
Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's funny because I got three people on my team who's using these AI tools all the time, but I just hang. Okay, cool, it's great, but I'm not doing it myself. But soon and if we're not there yet, because many people just don't know how much AI has been used already, but behind the scenes and eventually you gets to the fourth step level, which is how did we ever get along without it? And that typically is the process that we go through, especially when it comes to disruption. It's just initially we reject it. Second thing we do is we can see how others can use it. Third is we can use it on a limited basis. And then fourth, we look back and go, how did we ever get along without it? And I kind of see that the direction on many things when it comes to disruption that we're moving towards.
Dale Dixon [00:04:01]:
So I'll start with a principle that I hold dear in my life and as a way to orchestrate my leadership path, and that is the principle of childlike curiosity and being really curious about what's coming around the corner. And that's really what's informed me along the path. And I have so much to learn, but I'm really curious about what AI brings or what a disruption can do. I intentionally lean into curiosity to avoid being triggered by fear or a fight, flight or freeze mentality in the face of disruptive change. So I find that there's the balance that I'm looking to. I want to lean into curiosity so that I don't end up being sucked into fear. And it's an intentional process. So if we lean into this principle of being curious, where have you seen that serve leaders well in facing disruption? And then how do we start to apply it when it comes to AI? And I've got some ideas, but I'd love to hear you riff on that for a few minutes.
Eric Boles [00:05:22]:
Yeah, I think the first thing you ask, I think is, good there's a curiosity. I challenge leaders, especially very busy leaders, and based on their role, we live in an environment where we can't run out of information in the day and age we live today. So not only is being curious and having a desire to learn I've said this before, but I just believe we live in a time where Eric Hoffer's quote is ideal, which is in times of change, it's learners that inherit the earth, while the learned are beautifully equipped to deal with a world that no longer exists. That is exactly not only where we live, but I believe we're going to continue to live there. With that being said, I do believe people should give some form of boundaries around the learning experience. And what I mean by boundaries around the learning experience, what I mean is boundaries such as I want to recognize this tool or this tool or disruption, but also I want to look at it through the filter of how does it relate to my world, how does it relate? That gives it some context, right? Like, I need help usually when it comes to something, learning something new. This is a little side note for all those who are listening and specify a learning standpoint, it is much easier for us to learn on top of what we already know than learn something all by itself. So anytime you learn something new, you're always looking for, how does this not only relate to my world, but what do I already know that can help make this make a little sense? Right? And I think if we do it more from that angle, our curiosity level goes up naturally because we're looking for the benefit of it, not just what it does.
Eric Boles [00:07:20]:
Right. Because there's individual I know right now who have leaned into AI and they are leaning into the side. That's just so technical. That's not even relatable right. That's not what you do. What you're looking for is what part of that are you leaning in that you can see relatable? Not easily, but that can be assimilated and can be applied to your world.
Dale Dixon [00:07:48]:
Which that's funny. That's quite the segue because the second principle that I've got wrestling around in the back of my head is this idea of fighting for clarity. And you're talking about being super clear about the implications, impact opportunities that we see. This was really brought to bear. I spoke to a college class last week and the issue of AI came up and the professor asked, what's the impact of AI on these students and their career opportunities once they leave school? And my initial reaction was, oh my, the sky's the limit. But it requires you to have this insatiable curiosity about what AI is doing, what it can do right now, and be tuned into what it can do in the future related to your specific careers. But let's get clear, human beings are very important in this ecosystem. And so with the students, I broke it down and worked to be very clear about the opportunities and the challenges.
Dale Dixon [00:09:02]:
I know inside of our business that there is a significant level of fear that and I think this is true for a lot of businesses, there's a fear, especially among frontline people, that AI is going to take their jobs. So let's get clear about what we see AI potentially being able to do in the organization in the near future and potentially in the far future. But let's be clear and transparent in that right now, so that we start to maybe it's not going to alleviate the fears, but it addresses the concerns. And there's nothing like sunshine as a disinfectant, especially around fear. So we talk about utilizing artificial disruption, in this case artificial intelligence, to eliminate the mundane tasks. We should be letting technology do that. And what are some of those mundane? And getting clear, what are some of the mundane tasks and how do we free you up to do much more high value work? And what does that high value work look like? So it's the open, honest conversations where we're fighting for clarity.
Eric Boles [00:10:12]:
I love you had the conversation there with these students in class, and it's a wonderful transition to what I experienced last week was I was actually with group of leaders, insurance company, but very effective, very successful insurance company. When they dug deep into the details, you can see how many things need to become automated, which is going to be AI driven. And it's not eliminating jobs like you say. It's eliminating so many tasks that do not require the kind of intellectual capital that's being used on it right now. And what I mean by that is you got these high end underwriters looking at these little things that something else can be done so they can properly use their time on the right things. Now, when I say use their time on the right things, and those listening hear what I'm saying is so often if I'm using my energy, my thought power on things that don't require it, it still exhausts that energy and time. So when I get to the things that really do require my thought, there's a subjectivity to it, right? There's more nuance. I got to have the time and the energy to do that.
Eric Boles [00:11:50]:
Also, as a business, you got to think about returns. Is that the best use for people who are getting paid this, to be spending time doing that and then to go deeper with it? People are like, well, AI's intelligence is artificial intelligence and there's no limit. I said, True, but the amount of intelligence you have isn't as important as the thinking that guides it. So we still need people thinking to guide that intelligence. And that's the direction we're going. We're going into a thinking environment. We're going into a serving environment that is happening. This is not doom and gloom.
Eric Boles [00:12:28]:
This is not about scare or anything. But I was with IBM and I was with one of their executives as they were talking to a group, and they were just saying, look, this is what we're projecting. We're projecting that your kids who are if you got kids who are under the age of twelve or younger, reality is we believe that 80% to 90% of their jobs that they're going to have don't exist today. I mean, just process that.
Dale Dixon [00:13:01]:
See, that excites the innovator in me. I'm like, that's exciting. What's on the horizon?
Eric Boles [00:13:07]:
Yeah, in our reaction to it. But they don't exist today. And so you're sitting there going, well, if they don't exist today, they're just going to disappear. No, but the speed by which technology is improving, it's not just time, it's multiplied time. Like, it isn't just, oh, in ten years things are going to be different. No, in the past, what ten years represented is very different than what ten years represents today. Literally every year that goes by, the technological advancement, the speed, the new ways we're seeing how this technology can be used is compounding. And so clearly, to be afraid of something that's kind of inevitable.
Eric Boles [00:13:57]:
People will say, well, how do you get rid of the fear with the very thing you said at the beginning? Dale which is you become curious. You're usually afraid of what you don't understand or what you don't know. But if you lean in to know it to the degree that's necessary, then all of a sudden you realize, man, a lot of this stuff adds a lot of value when used properly.
Dale Dixon [00:14:20]:
So the next principle to talk about would be what I call transparency with boundaries. And this would be the opposite of if we're looking for what oftentimes happens, people just bury their heads. I'm not going to use it, not going to look at it, or a blind. It's not going to impact my business. And there's a lot of employees who say, I'm just not doing it. We were really surprised inside of our organization. And I just read a study, I don't know if it was in the Wall Street Journal, but that the number of employees in companies who just don't know or have refused to even look at the potential of AI as it relates to the business that they're working in. Whether you're in leadership to frontline and the importance for leaders to be curious about this, be very clear, but also with especially those frontline employees be transparent about and I call it transparency with boundaries.
Dale Dixon [00:15:26]:
You don't have to give away the secrets of the business, but here are the ways that we're going to do this. It also is super important from an ethical standpoint if you're using AI. That's why we started off the conversation saying it's actually used in the background for processing the audio quality of this podcast. It helps with any of the text that you would see in descriptions and social media posts were relying on artificial intelligence. But being transparent with that helps people see it in use and better understand it as well.
Eric Boles [00:16:07]:
You know, it was someone who said it this way to me one time. They said, you know, around the levels of competency, right, and because of how fast change is happening, especially in the way that you were just describing it. But it's one thing to not know or at least know you don't know, right? Like we call that I'd rather be consciously incompetent. I don't know, but at least I know I don't know. There's nothing worse than the primary levels of incompetence, which is I don't know and I don't even know. I don't know, right? Like, I am not even awake.
Dale Dixon [00:16:55]:
I don't want to know that I don't know.
Eric Boles [00:16:57]:
That's the worst because that all translates to I just don't want to know. So you are literally living, hoping or trusting that things that are on the way are never going to touch you. And so one of the things I think is big is the principles you were describing. But within organizations I ask organization or at least the leaders. This of organization all the time in terms of the mindset in the organization, the philosophy, how we are a learning organization. And when we say learning, it's not just learning, it's the principle of learning. It's not just what you're learning. It is actually the principle.
Eric Boles [00:17:36]:
Because I like to say growing leaders are learning leaders. Right? When you're a learning leader, you understand that it's not only important for me to learn, but it's also for my people to learn, where we're all curious, where we're all learning from each other. And as a result, we're that much smarter. We're able to find new ways and new. Many times people are always assuming when a new technology comes, it's going to take away from this job. Yes, but you're aligning the job with the person as if the person's possibility to grow or do something different isn't there. So our greatest strength for change is, and especially as technology continues to advance. Man, we were saying it 30 years ago.
Eric Boles [00:18:23]:
My mentor used to I mean, he was teaching change 40 years ago, nothing's, we're using the same principles. But he used to say all the time, he goes, hey, it's not that your product is world class, your people are world class. And if your people are world class, they're world class learners. So their greatest strength is the need to adapt. So we may have to change entrenched behaviors to take advantage of new opportunities that are in front of us. When AI shows up or new technology or disruption, what it usually disrupts is entrenched behaviors, our routines. And so we sometimes look at the routine and confuse the routine with the purpose and the value. No, you're still valuable as the person.
Eric Boles [00:19:09]:
Your routine or what you do now may shift. And that's our strength. If you were stuck and couldn't change, then you become like a machine or one of the tools we use that is no longer valuable. No, you're a person. We learn and grow and adapt. And this is why I'm always emphasizing the company of leaders. I was like, remind your people they've made changes before, not just in business, but in life. It's constantly changing.
Eric Boles [00:19:38]:
So if you can get that mindset right, if you can constantly emphasize that, then people know, if I did it before, I can do it again. But if you skip that part of it, that part of change and only bringing the technology, it's hard for people not to see this technology replacing me. No, this technology is replacing the task so we can find greater value in a different way.
Dale Dixon [00:20:02]:
That is a powerful approach that you just laid out for leaders to take. And you talk about change management, and as I'm aligning the principles that we're talking through, they're really big buckets for the specifics around change management. So when you think about clarity and transparency, you're talking about being straightforward and open with the team. From a culture and a mindset standpoint, you're empowering people to see themselves adapting to adopting the disruption that's coming down the road and preparing them for that disruption. When we talk about this idea of transparency, I think it goes both directions. It involves these concepts around anticipating and addressing resistance inside the organization. That's where a level of transparency is necessary. It's being open to providing training and support, saying, hey, we as a company don't know this.
Dale Dixon [00:21:05]:
We're going to go out and actively engage in some help to better understand it. These are big buckets that we're talking through specific to change management. The last one on my list that I think is really important, that I'm really spending some time to better understand and to sharpen the edge, is around experimentation. And this is looking at small seizing small opportunities to test the disruptive force, which in this case is artificial intelligence. So the importance, let's talk through the importance of having an experimenter's mindset in dealing with disruption.
Eric Boles [00:21:54]:
Yeah, the way I like to describe it is this way. I've used this framing, but I think this helps shift leaders mindset, especially when it comes to disruption. Dealing with changes like this is we need data. We have to have data. And the way I like to describe data is, please, those who are listening right now, do not, when I say data, view it through the lens of, oh, let's go get these reports and do analysis. No, what I mean by data is, in simple terms, just need reps. We need reps. We need reps by which we can learn from and course correct, then do it again in course correct and do it again in course correct.
Eric Boles [00:22:38]:
So the best way of saying that is we have to train. And training requires reps. Training includes what we're going to learn from doing it right, what we're going to learn from doing it wrong. So when you go into it, you're like, hey, our greatness, we're not going to try to be great. This is why I say all the time, we're not trying to be great, we're not trying to be successful. We're going to train to be successful. I would say as leaders, title leaders, trying to be great leaders, no train to be right. And that includes the whole concept of training, includes mistakes, includes discovery.
Eric Boles [00:23:20]:
And the beautiful thing when this is done right, the company embraces training. So we learn from other people doing it. So it's almost like I'm on a team, but there's ten of us, but every time one of us does it, it's a rep for all of us. And so if you multiply that by ten, we're getting each one of us try something ten times, that's 100 reps at something that we're learning from each other. This mindset has to coincide with what you just got to describing because confidence, my confidence, many times people believe confidence is like we have to be confident. Yes, confident enough to get up again. People think confidence is going to make sure we do it right the first time. No, don't need confidence is just going to go right the first time.
Eric Boles [00:24:07]:
Confidence is that's bounce back. And the word confidence come from the word confidence, which means to trust, you have to trust that even when it goes sideways, we get up and we can do it again. This is what comes along with it. So no one has the ideal answer. I mean, the reason why even some of the companies right now who probably are on the front line when it comes to AI and AI usage, what makes them on the front line or what puts them so far ahead, is they have found ways to work it into what they do every day. So why is Google getting so good on the AI front? Why is certain? One, because they get billions of opportunities to practice it every day. There's reps happening with how they go. So the more you do something, the better you get at it.
Eric Boles [00:24:59]:
And so from a mindset standpoint, it's very important, as you were just trying that we need to practice it like we get better by practice. Even if I relate it to a football example, my coach, not only my coach described, but it really came from Coach Dungey, tony Dungey. Coach Tony Dungeon used to say it all the time. He said, look, we get paid to practice, we play for free. Like everybody wants to play on Sunday. But the real thing that matters is your reps during the week. So you are paid to get as many reps as possible during the week. So then when it gets to Sunday, we're prepared.
Eric Boles [00:25:42]:
This is the same mindset we have to have when it comes to disruption AI. And I'm saying AI right now, but please, whoever's listening to this, you can plug whatever in. If your company right now going through change, if you're going after something different than you've gone before, if you got a new revenue goal or your KPIs have changed, your key performance indicators have shifted the market, everything I'm still talking about, you still got to do it with reps. So the sooner we can have more of our team with the right mindset as, hey, we're going to align ourselves, we're going to try to put a good plan together and a strategy. But what we really need is having that strategy tested by having as many reps and things as possible so we can course correct.
Dale Dixon [00:26:30]:
Awesome. Okay, so just to recap for folks, as we've talked through this, and I think we've just scratched the surface, I'm sure our listeners can message us with a bunch of other ideas that would be fantastic topics to dive in deep. But if we start to look at disruption, specifically at artificial intelligence, as the big disruption coming down the pike for us and we lean in with curiosity. We are sure that we are clear about what we see, the implications as leaders for AI, that we're transparent with boundaries with our teams, and that we are experimenting, that we're getting the repetitions in getting those reps in on a regular basis. Is there anything else you can think of off the top of your head that matches in with those or good foundation for preparing for disruption?
Eric Boles [00:27:23]:
Yeah, those are good foundations. The only thing I encourage, only thing I would add, is every individual own their openness to this. So these things we describe can't just be directed to the people you're leading. All of us are touched by it. So practice this. Use these things we're describing with yourself, like can remember. And I always encourage teams to remind themselves. Part of our confidence also comes from reviewing our highlight film, reviewing our past.
Eric Boles [00:27:56]:
We've made change before, or we wouldn't be here. We've adapted to change before or we wouldn't be here. The thing we're trying to figure out is how do we make sure the changes that are coming? We make them work for us instead of allowing them to just happen to us. And that is something we have to decide on. That is one of those things. Right now, we are going to talk about how this is working. This isn't happening to us. This is happening for us.
Eric Boles [00:28:22]:
But to make that happen for us, all the things you just got to describing Dale, have to be front and center.
Dale Dixon [00:28:30]:
This is what you you can only preach what you practice.
Eric Boles [00:28:34]:
That's it. Come on.
Dale Dixon [00:28:37]:
Okay.
Eric Boles [00:28:38]:
All right, my man.
Dale Dixon [00:28:39]:
Just to wrap things up, a little few housekeeping items. If you would rate and review this podcast, we would be most grateful. Just do it right there in the app that you're listening to this. If while you're there, you've just discovered us today, but you haven't necessarily listened in the past. If you would hit the subscribe button, that would be fantastic so that you are notified every time a new episode drops. You can always reach out to Eric or myself. You can find Eric@thegamechangersinc.com. I'm at Daledixonmedia.com.
Dale Dixon [00:29:12]:
So subscribe, rate, review and connect. Those are the big asks for this podcast. You have yourself a great week being insatiably, curious, clear, transparent, and always putting in the reps to unleash your best in life and work.