In this episode, Dale and Eric discuss the Gallup 2023 workplace report on employee engagement. They highlight the concerning statistics that show a majority of employees are angry, stressed, and disengaged. They emphasize the importance of clarity in leadership and the need for recognition, approachable leadership, clear goals, and strong guidance. By addressing these areas, leaders can create a more engaged and productive workforce.
Takeaways
Chapters
00:00
Introduction
00:36
Employee Engagement Statistics
03:32
The Importance of Clarity in Leadership
08:50
Recognition and Approachable Leadership
14:41
Clear Goals and Strong Guidance
23:55
Conclusion
In this episode, Dale and Eric discuss the Gallup 2023 workplace report on employee engagement. They highlight the concerning statistics that show a majority of employees are angry, stressed, and disengaged. They emphasize the importance of clarity in leadership and the need for recognition, approachable leadership, clear goals, and strong guidance. By addressing these areas, leaders can create a more engaged and productive workforce.
Takeaways
Chapters
00:00
Introduction
00:36
Employee Engagement Statistics
03:32
The Importance of Clarity in Leadership
08:50
Recognition and Approachable Leadership
14:41
Clear Goals and Strong Guidance
23:55
Conclusion
Dale (00:01.794)
happy, relaxed and engaged, bucking the trend to unleash your best in life and work. Welcome to the game changers podcast. I'm your host Dale Dixon. I help leaders be their best on stage and in front of the camera. I'm the chief innovation officer for a better business bureau, Eric Bowles coaches trains and inspires leaders to unleash their potential and the potential of those around them. Every week we gather around the microphones and we have a conversation to help leaders
unleash their best in life and work.
eric boles (00:34.609)
What's going on, my friend? Glad to be here.
Dale (00:36.55)
It's fit. It's great to see you. So I sent you the Gallup 2023 workplace report that depends on how you want to look at it glass half full. They've never seen employee engagement this high since they've been watching it's been tracking upwards since 2020. It's now 23%
eric boles (00:58.407)
Okay.
Dale (00:59.158)
That's the good news. Now, if you have 100% and you subtract 23, the majority is still 77%. That would be what did the article say? angry, stressed and disengaged is the majority.
eric boles (01:16.713)
Wow.
Dale (01:16.95)
So I, that's the data and we've got a whole bunch of data that we're going to go through just to open our eyes to this. But you're working with companies all over the world. Are you seeing what this report is saying?
eric boles (01:34.437)
Oh man, that is a great question. I may not be seeing it directly, okay, and the reason is it has a lot to do with at where within the organization are you spending your time. So what I've learned is I appreciate the fact that I work with a lot of leadership teams, a lot of executive teams, and typically because I deal with so many people leaders and that's
And for many organizations that starts around, there's managers obviously, but that's usually directors and above. Sometimes you gotta get beneath the surface to get down to what's really going on. And what I look at is not necessarily just the data in terms of all the assessments that they do and the employee engagement surveys and studies we do. What I am paying attention to though is,
What is their retention rates? What's their turnover numbers? What are their customers saying? Are those improving? Because those are usually indicators of leadership. I know it's an easy generalization. I don't want to oversimplify this. But typically, that's what you're seeing. They have some things within internally that are going on. So hearing what you just got through saying,
does not surprise me. I guess it kind of throws me a little bit for a loop in relationship to, you know, where these numbers are. I mean, we did go through a pandemic. We did have some interesting circumstances, challenges all over the place. And what I keep hearing that, man, there's jobs available, just not enough people to fill them. And the people who are in them aren't happy either. So that's alarming.
Dale (03:32.47)
So here's what I like to do. Let's, let me go through the data first and I'll just give some specific numbers and I'd encourage the listeners to key in and think about these numbers from the perspective of your business. So if you have 10 employees in your company, think X number of those 10 are actually dealing with this. So if you've got 10 employees, 23% of the workforce is engaged, that means only.
2.3% 2.3 of your 10 employees are engaged because here's the deal. In a large number is just a statistic. And we can't relate to it. A single number is a story and we can embrace it.
eric boles (04:09.607)
Yeah.
eric boles (04:15.362)
Yeah.
Dale (04:16.678)
So I'm asking listeners to think about the single number in your business as we go through this. And then just to set the context, I'd like to have a conversation about it from the leadership perspective, but also for that person who's in their car driving to work listening to this, who might not see themselves in an executive role right now, but they aspire to be or but they can lead from anywhere in the organization. So it might be the frontline worker or somebody else to say, you know what, how do you respond to these numbers? So
eric boles (04:40.305)
That's good.
Dale (04:47.074)
23% say they're thriving at work right now, 2.3 out of your 10 employees or 23 out of your 100 employees. 59% are in a quiet quitting mode according to the Gallup 2023 workplace report. They say the quiet quitting means basically they come in, they sit in front of a computer, they don't know what to do or why they do it. And I think that's, that's really important to keep in mind. And then 18% are actively disengaged.
eric boles (05:10.006)
Wow. Yep.
Dale (05:17.134)
Gallup calls this the loud quitting, they're actually doing something to be disruptive in your company. Now here's globally, this is costing us 8.8 trillion with a T trillion. That's a number I can't even wrap my head around dollar figure, but it's they consider it 9% of the global GDP. That's what it's costing us this level of disengagement in the workplace.
eric boles (05:23.389)
Hmm.
eric boles (05:35.213)
No surprise.
eric boles (05:42.935)
Mm.
Dale (05:46.806)
44% of the respondents say they're stressed, over half are looking for a new job. So if you're a leader right now, you can just think about what would it take to replace half of your organization because half of them are looking for a job right now. And what does that mean to you? Bamboo HR says job satisfaction is at its lowest since 2020 is another data point on that report. But here's what I thought was interesting, Eric.
eric boles (05:58.845)
Right.
Dale (06:16.434)
one of the lines in the story was we've given workers more money, more flexibility, and more support only to come up short.
eric boles (06:26.4)
Wow, wow, wow.
Dale (06:28.894)
So your response to that and then let's work through what the workers say they want.
eric boles (06:35.261)
Gotcha, gotcha. A couple of responses I have. The first thing is usually when you hear data and you hear numbers and you heard me say this once before we're as individuals, we human beings many times we're far more rationalizing than we are rational. We usually gather information to support what we already believe. So somebody listening right now going, oh yeah, I know 23%.
is what that number is, but I'm fortunate. I have 10 people and I know at least eight of them are fully engaged. And the running joke I say many times, this is like parents who swear they know everything their kids are doing. Yeah, okay, really. Usually what happens is there's a whole lot going on under your watch that you're not aware of, especially.
if you're not searching for it, especially if you're not asking for it. And more importantly, especially if you're not yourself as a manager or leader, fully engaged. It's amazing how a leader will sit there and go, no, why people are engaged, but are you even engaged with them? Like, do you know really what's going on with them? Do you know what matters to them? Do you know what they want? Do you know what they need? These are simple, practical examples, but the data is one thing, and I'm glad what you did
Dale was so good, you made it personal for everyone listening. I don't even want you just listening and thinking about the number of your employees. I want you to think about who reports to you by name. And I want you to just sit there and think about them by name. Is Steve engaged? Is Sally engaged? Is Cheryl engaged? Is Pete engaged? Is Sherry engaged? Like, I mean, really make it personal. And the reason I say that is, man, if you're going to...
Dale (08:04.33)
Mmm.
eric boles (08:23.777)
Ask tough questions. Start with asking tough questions of yourself. Like this stuff is fascinating. We're gonna hear the things that they come up with and we're gonna speak to that. But I want those listening, make this personal. This is one of those things I say, look, make practice harder than the game. Like put yourself through the ringer right now so it makes it a whole lot easier, right? At game time when you're directly dealing with your folks.
Dale (08:50.37)
So that's a fantastic response for the leader to these overall numbers. When you think about what the workers that the next question in this Gallup survey was what would you change about your workplace to make it better? And 41% said, engagement and culture was where they want it 28% put it at pay and benefits, and 16% were at well being. So what does engagement and culture?
eric boles (09:10.066)
Wow.
Dale (09:19.706)
mean according to the Gallup results. It's for everyone to be recognized for their contributions. Managers are more approachable and can talk openly. More autonomy. They want to learn more things. Especially if they have a repetitive job. And they want to be respected. That's that's like table stakes right there. That's
eric boles (09:46.46)
Come on.
Dale (09:47.15)
and giving everyone a fair chance to get promoted and clearer goals and stronger guidance. And as I read through those, I'm thinking, okay, we've got a masterclass and how to do all that stuff. Just listen to previous podcasts. But there's one word that keeps coming up. And that would be clarity. Here's what you're doing. Here's what to do why you're doing it to bring value to what you said earlier. And clarity about
eric boles (09:53.031)
Wow.
Dale (10:15.462)
Hey, here's feedback on the job. Fantastic job. That's the praise that the person wants. Or here's a way to improve what we want.
eric boles (10:25.961)
Look, we are, but I want to emphasize this point. I've said it before. I'm going to, I love this study, this assessment, this poll that was taking place because I can't scream this any louder, right? I can't scream it any louder. This is what my coach said to me about TNT and this is what I love saying to Evergrande. You win.
Dale (10:26.434)
I'm preaching to the choir.
eric boles (10:54.125)
when we win the TNT plays and I thought it meant explosive and the coach looked at me and says no it means when we do the things that take no talent we win games. This is the ultimate definition of TNM takes no money. We are literally hearing from the very people polled themselves saying that if 41 percent say
The things that take no money, they do take your attention. They do take focus. It does take intentionality. But really what we're screaming really loud is it takes leadership. And leadership has nothing to do with your title. Leadership says, hey, our people are up on what they're in on. They want to know feedback. They want to know that they're adding value. They want to know that they're making a difference. We have the opportunity to say how they're making a difference, engaging with them.
We get to hear their ideas. They get to hear. They get to know what we want, not only from them, but what we want for them. They get to give the feedback back. All this is happening, and none of that takes money. None of it. Does it take time? Absolutely. But clearly, whatever time you're taking right now isn't giving you the kind of return you're looking for. Right? Bill, I cannot. It is amazing to me when I talk to leaders who's like, well, we don't have the time to do that.
Dale (12:13.966)
I'm going to go ahead and turn it off.
eric boles (12:20.709)
Well, wherever you're spending your time, it's not working very effectively. So you might want to use some of the ineffective time on the very thing people are saying makes you more effective. But it just, I mean, dear friend, and I love her, she wrote the book, Multipliers. And she did such a phenomenal job. But Liz Wiseman, and when she talked about the ability to multi, she asked a simple question every time she's working with a group. It's if.
Was there a time was there a particular leader or somebody who when you were working for them? They gave you a hundred percent of you could you didn't want to let them down you gave him a hundred percent of your effort Everybody says absolutely. So what that says is there is a gap between my regular investment of my energy and time and what my ultimate commitment can be and the differentiator between getting 80% of me or 100% of me had everything to do with who my leader was
It had nothing to do with how much you paid me. It had nothing to do with how tough the job is. It had nothing to do, it has everything to do with the very things everybody's identifying in that top 41%, which we can clearly screen. Those are all the most basic fundamentals of leadership. And if we took it seriously enough, we literally would see a significant increase, not only in commitment, but in loyalty, in ideas, in ways that people work together. I mean, the.
The reciprocal effect of this is mind boggling, yet we still want to spend all our time on just, I'm not denying pay and benefits and all that stuff, but like most things, if you give me a raise this year, I appreciate it. But the reality is most things have to keep getting bigger in order to keep working. That's not bad, it's just real. But the other stuff we're talking about, it gives a return that you can't measure. Like it's...
The return on doing a few of these things better? Anyways, man, you see how I'm, like, y'all, without question. Oh.
Dale (14:24.25)
passionate. It's coming through. So yeah, let's break this down. Number one, recognition, recognition for the contribution. And it needs to come from the leader. Where have you seen? How have you seen that done really well?
eric boles (14:41.161)
There's a few, I got a ton of leaders who are working intentionally on it, but it's not only where it's worked well, but the mindset you have to have with it. And so what's really important, even if you go all the way back to those who are like the experts on motivation, immediate recognition is the most influential recognition. Like see it at the moment. Like when you see, we call it coaching in the moment, right?
Why? Because if I can, if I acknowledge it, if I see it, even in a meeting where not only what somebody performed, but I'm talking about a little thing, somebody speaks up or somebody asks a tough question or somebody really needs to lead in, interrupt it right there and like, hey, I like that thing. I want more of that. Guys, do you see how so-and-so challenged so-and-so? I want to see more of that in our meetings, right? Because that's how this gets to a good place. Then go right back into the meeting. I promise you, everybody heard that.
And you're going to see more of that. Why? Because you recognize it and you reward it in the meantime. Also, it's the mindset of being what I like to call a good finder, not a fault finder. There's somebody here right now who's like, oh, recognition. No, what we're saying is you probably do recognize when something goes sideways or wrong. When we say recognition, we're really saying, do you catch people in the act of doing things right?
And leaders, the best good finder that exists, are the leaders who can recognize or find the good causes of success, not the results of success. Everybody knows how to celebrate that. Like I tell leaders all the time, brother, you're just a fan then. We're all celebrating when the scoreboard works in our favor. The question is, do you know how to celebrate or catch people that act like you're a fan?
of doing the right things that lead to the right results. Like catch people after doing that. When a leader does that, well, that's a game changer right there.
Dale (16:43.67)
managers who are approachable and can talk openly. And I'm thinking about this. Oh, we haven't, there's the, there is the verbal, we have an open door policy, you're welcome to reach out anytime. And then there's the cold hard fact that just doesn't happen.
eric boles (16:47.765)
Oh!
eric boles (17:02.153)
That's really... Yeah, one thing I always encourage leaders to do is, if you got an open door policy, then use the open door to walk out of your door, openly, into the lives of the people around you. If you're sitting there, kind of open door, and you're like, hey, nobody's coming in, because leaders have to go first. So go first. Go meet them where they're at. That literally is your job. Right?
Right? If you're just sitting in your office waiting for people to come to you, then what is your purpose? Like I say all the time for a leader, if a leader is not causing their people to perform at a higher level in conjunction or that's more congruent with what their potential is, what is the point of that leader? Like if I can play well enough by myself, why do I need a coach? Our players should be better as a result of being with that coach.
then they would be without it. So guess what, coaches, go meet them. The open door policy means you're willing to go first, and if you go first, they'll come back in. But you have to be willing to. The one point I wanna make too about open conversation is the leaders who shut down the conversations when they start getting good, or they shut down the dialogue because they're a little uncomfortable with a little conflict, they're the worst, right? They're the worst because the magic comes out.
after that. It's not that we conflict resolution. Really, conflict resolution doesn't take place. Why? Because we quit in the middle of the conflict. Like, let the, like, finish it. Like, get to the other side. If you go through some discomfort, keep going. And then when we get to the other side, we're better for it. No, what happens is the leader, they didn't like a tone or something, didn't write, and we're like, well, we want to be, we want to create the safest environment possible.
I am not talking about being insulting or disrespectful, but what you did not create is a safe environment. What you just created is a bitter environment because something didn't finish. But if we are in there and we give people permission to share completely in their thoughts and context for it, and we get to the other side, man, those are the kind of teens people want to be a part of. Cause that's real. Now we got an authentic environment.
Dale (19:26.246)
Um, we said respect was table stakes. I mean, that's that goes without saying giving everyone a fair chance in getting promoted.
eric boles (19:34.021)
Woof. Now, I'm sensitive to that. I'm sensitive to language. And so I am very, very sensitive to language because I'm telling you right now, there are certain things, I want people to be treated fairly. And sometimes being treated fairly and being treated equally are not the same, right? And I know I want everybody to have
Dale (19:41.58)
Yes.
eric boles (20:04.193)
opportunity and I'm all for that. Now in an ideal world everybody's opportunity is the same but that isn't the real world. Come on let's just call it what it is. But also the kind of investment effort work that people put in. There are some qualifiers that matter right? Like one leader I work with and he asked he was like well so-and-so
I want to make sure they get an opportunity because they're here every day and they did that. And he was identifying that. I was like, I'm 100% with you. I appreciate that. But for you as a leader, that particular leader, this leader values presence, actually presence, almost over productivity. So, so, so they have a tendency. And I just said, look, I just want you to understand your bias. It's not a negative thing, not a bad thing. I just want you to aware of it. So you are crediting somebody on your team.
who works hard and gives a whole lot of grind because it's similar to you. So they function like you. And so they stay late and they come early. But there's someone else on your team who is so amazingly effective and efficient that they don't stay late and they don't come early. Why? Because they plan better than anybody else on your team. And if you don't notice that, that's a mistake. There's nothing that used to bother me more than Dale than a coach. We always had these coaches on the team.
that sometimes they would be harder on a player who made it look easy. Because they make it look easy, that means they're not trying. And that is the wrong mindset to have. And so any thing, now, if you're working for a boss who thinks that way, I'm sorry. But if you are a boss, make sure you are not being, you are not biased towards that because you will have a tendency to value or recognize what.
It's kind of similar to you. If you had to be the person who had to overcome all these obstacles, you have a natural predisposition to lean towards the one who looked like who had it harder. And then you're missing the ones who, no, they're just more effective because they're more thoughtful. They take thoughtful action. They're just not wasting motion. So you got to be able to see those things. So I like the statement they said, but that is one of those ones where there's a lot of nuance to that.
eric boles (22:22.861)
And so it's very important as a leader looks at it that, you know, assess that, evaluate that, and then make sure what does that look like in the world you're in.
Dale (22:32.414)
And you'd better be as the leader be able better be able to clearly articulate the why was this person promoted? Why did this person assume the position in the in the team and give the reasons? Is it because oh, they showed up early and they stayed late? Well, now that's what you want from everybody. You just to your point, you set the bar, but you'd better be able to articulate it. If that's what you really want. That's what's important.
eric boles (22:38.749)
Come on. That's right.
eric boles (22:55.765)
Hahaha
Dale (23:01.458)
articulate it and that it's also a good thought process to check yourself is my bias coming in
eric boles (23:06.801)
That's right. That's right. And this is why I love these kinds of conversations about, you know, like, and you're starting to get an assessment, but I love this because even the process of clarity, like your why behind some of these decisions or why someone was promoted or why this happened, whatever, it just, everybody feels clearer. It's the uncertainty, it's the unknown, it's leaving me to my own imagination. I tell this to leaders all the time.
Don't leave everybody to their own imagination because they're rarely filling in that gap with, oh, my leader must be really competent and sharp, right? That's not what we're typically doing. Ha ha ha.
Dale (23:49.226)
Let's see last thing on the list that I want to that I want to touch on clearer goals and stronger guidance.
eric boles (23:55.697)
Yes. First of all, we've talked about it before. We've emphasized when we talk about clear goals and clear goals. The best way when people hear clear goals, that's just not with a number. A clear goal is something that I can see even in my mind's eye. Seeing doesn't mean it needs to literally exist. It just means it's described in a way that
what I see in my mind, what I picture in my mind, matches what the leader's speaking to. This is why when, and again, I can't emphasize enough, I love when Covey said it, we gotta begin with the end in mind. But the end, we gotta be able to see it, because if I can see it, I can now feel it. And there are so many people who are not sure what they do matters because they don't have a clear picture of what it is they're...
working on or what they're attempting to or what they're going for. So in the absence of clarity, what it also kicks in is I don't know if I'm doing a good job or not. And I don't want to just know I'm doing a good job because my boss told me so. I like other indicators that I'm playing well. Like I make a good catch, make a good play. I make a good sell. I make a good thing on this day. I like to know. And the way that I do that is with clarity, clear goals.
clear benchmarks. I want clear assessments and evaluations. I shouldn't have to wait once a quarter to hear how I'm doing. I say that to leaders all the time. You're going to wait that long for your people to find out if they're doing well or not? Now, here's the thing. If your people are not or are doing well and you haven't told them, that is a real problem.
If they're not doing well and don't know that, that's even a bigger problem. Okay? And the in the lack of frequency in terms of how, whether they're making progress or not. I mean, there's nothing worse than I've worked for three months and now you tell me I may not have been doing a good job. I wasted three. I could have course corrected long time ago. And now you tell me I look.
eric boles (26:20.345)
There are certain things that deserve it, should tick people off. That's one of them. Because any leader not letting their people know the progress they're making or the lack thereof, I'm looking at a leader and say, change your title. Okay, because that's not what you're doing. Like, what else are you doing? What? If you're not doing it, then you're just a scorekeeper. Then change your title. But then you got to, you people got to know where are they at?
Dale (26:27.776)
percent.
eric boles (26:49.369)
in even in your own mind. And so we can at least get aligned, right? Like this is what good looks like. This is what you're not delivering. You may even change the leaders. Actually, you are delivering. I just didn't see it the right way. Whatever it is that takes place, that has to be done.
Dale (27:05.686)
100% Well, the challenge, if you run a business, don't let $1 go toward that 8.8 trillion lost. Because you have angry, stressed and disengaged people. This is how you have happy, relaxed and engaged people what we're looking for.
eric boles (27:26.441)
Fit.
Dale (27:26.654)
And it was really those points. So thank you for leading us through that. Thanks to the Gallup organization for putting these numbers out and giving us something to think about and talk about for the podcast. We appreciate it. We'll ask our listeners if you do us a huge favor. If you would write a review, hopefully we've earned a few kind words from you in your favorite podcast listening app. Also give us a rating. Hopefully that five stars is right there. If you haven't done so already, subscribe to the podcast in your favorite podcast playing app.
and share this episode with someone who you would who you respect and who you think it would be of assistance to. We would love to hear from you. We're both active on LinkedIn, you can find us there connect there. Also, you can find me at Dale Dixon media.com and Eric at the game changers inc.com all one word the game changers inc.com is the web address. With that have yourself a fantastic week.
engaging your team.
eric boles (28:28.089)
Awesome, my friend.