Act One Podcast
Act One Podcast
Producer Karen Covell and Composer James Covell
Act One Podcast - Episode 28 - Interview with Producer Karen Covell and Composer James Covell.
James Covell is an award winning composer who writes music for Film, Television, Theatre and the Concert Hall. Karen Covell is an independent producer of film and television, as well as the founding Director of the Hollywood Prayer Network. The Covells have co-authored three books: How To Talk About Jesus Without Freaking Out, The Day I Met God, and The J Bomb.
The Hollywood Prayer Network (HPN) seeks to identify, connect and empower Christians who are working in Hollywood and throughout the entertainment industry, uniting and encouraging them with prayer and community and equipping them to live lives that demonstrate the love of Jesus Christ. HPN encourages and mobilizes Christians around the world to pray for the people who work in Hollywood and seeks to have every Christian who is working in the entertainment industry prayed for by individual Christians outside of the industry. HPN also coordinates prayer for the whole of the entertainment industry and the content being produced, as well as for the entire Hollywood community – that they would understand their value as children of God and seek to know Him completely.
The Act One Podcast provides insight and inspiration on the business and craft of Hollywood from a Christian perspective.
Influence is more powerful spiritually than power. And so we're in a place here that tells stories. Jesus didn't come as a politician. Jesus came as a storyteller. And so why did he do that? He knew it was more effective. So we have to look at our culture and say, really, who's the most effective? It's the storytellers.
James Duke:This is the Act One Podcast. I'm your host, James Duke. Thanks for listening. If you like what you hear, please subscribe to our podcast and leave us a good review. My guests today are Jim and Karen Covell. Jim Covell is an award-winning composer who writes music for film, television, theater, and the concert hall. Karen Covell is an independent producer of film and television as well as the founding director of the Hollywood Prayer Network. The Covells have written three books: How to Talk About Jesus Without Freaking Out, The Day I Met God, and The J Bomb. Jim and Karen are longtime friends and supporters of Act One, and it was my privilege to speak to them recently about their life and ministry here in Hollywood. I hope you enjoy our conversation. Jim and Karen Covell, welcome to the Act One podcast. It's great to see you guys.
SPEAKER_02:Thanks for having us.
James Duke:Jim and Karen, you guys are uh the patron saints of uh Christians in Hollywood.
SPEAKER_02:Um a lot of spiritual blindness patronizing.
James Duke:Yeah, yeah. Yeah, sorry. Did I say that wrong? Yeah, let me. I was reading, I was reading off of a cue card. Yes, you're the patronizing saints of uh the Christians in Hollywood.
SPEAKER_01:Patriots or the Saints, either football club.
James Duke:No, but but you guys are truly beloved. Um, the community. You've been on here for uh a long time, and I want to spend some time talking about your careers and uh just your investment in the Christian Hollywood community out here. I remember when I came out here in 1998, I was uh a student at the Los Angeles Film Studies Center, and you guys were guest speakers. Um, and you spoke, and it was the first time I ever heard anyone use um this term that you guys have used for a while now. And I'm not saying that you invented it, but you guys talked about being quote unquote, you know, missionaries in Hollywood, what it means to be uh a person of faith, living out your faith uh in the uh in in Hollywood. And so I would love to start our conversation there.
SPEAKER_01:Well, there's a debate about that. Uh I think I invented it, and Karen thinks she invented it. That's a big problem.
James Duke:That's that's the debate. That's the debate.
SPEAKER_02:But also he thinks he's funnier and he's not.
SPEAKER_01:So it's some are in delusion.
James Duke:I I I the the I remember it was, yeah, it was 98, and and obviously I had heard people talk about that kind of aspect before. Um, but you guys uh you guys present a case for it. That that's the thing that I love about your heart, and I think the thing that is just so powerful is you guys for years have presented, have made the case for the need for people of faith to come out here and treat Hollywood almost like a a tribe of people that a missionary would go to and they get trained to and be prayer support and all that kind of stuff. So let's start there. Let's let's start with you guys' pitch for those who are listening on what it means to be a person of faith and coming and living in Hollywood and working in Hollywood.
SPEAKER_01:Well, uh, first off, we call it the world's most influential marketplace now. Uh 20 years ago, we do both.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, we we call it the mission field, but some people are don't get the word mission field, they get worried about it. So we put in marketplace the same thing. It's like marketplace missionaries. So, regardless of how people feel, if they feel like they get that concept of mission field, we are all there. If they feel uncomfortable about that because we've got bad stories about missionaries coming in and trying to change people, you know, then we call it marketplace. So, depending on the audience, we want people to feel totally comfortable that we're not here to change people, we're here to recognize a spiritual need in a people group, and we get the opportunity to come in and use our gifts and talents and share our faith along the way.
SPEAKER_01:And the central core to that, to that belief is that in scripture, Jesus says you're the salt of you're you're the salt of the earth, you're the salt and you are the light. Um, so if we're salt, salt does two things. Salt makes things more flavorful, so which is what believers here should be. We should be make we should actually we bring out the flavor. We are not the flavor, but salt brings out the flavor. And then as Dean Batali would say, we keep with the we keep the place from rotting. So we keep things from rotting, we make it better, we're the salt, and and we should be the light also. So I think I think that's the central biblical truth about this, is why is why, as believers, anywhere they go, they should be the salt and they should be the light. So that's where that's where the basis of it starts.
SPEAKER_02:And it it hit us years ago when we first we did not come to Hollywood to to minister, to do anything with the church. We we were totally focused on our careers. I was a producer, Jim was a composer, and we wanted to be salt and light, but we wanted to do our work. And it started getting really hard. So in the early 80s, we thought, wow, we need we need prayer, we need other Christians. And we literally had to work to find other believers at the time in the 80s who were Christians and professionals.
SPEAKER_01:We were 10 years old at that point.
SPEAKER_02:We were 10 years old. And so it was hard to find anybody grown up enough to understand what our concept was. And we finally found six people and got together and started praying. And we prayed for each other, we interceded for the industry, we met every month, and that group uh eventually became known as Premise, and it lasted 33 years. So we really got that concept of praying, building community, encouraging co-workers in the industry and making Christ more visible. But then we realized there is a gap between the church and Hollywood. Hollywood hates the church and the church hates Hollywood. And uh, we wanted to build a bridge between the two because we have a foot in both worlds, and so did a lot of the people we started meeting. They had a foot in church, a foot in entertainment, and neither side understood the other. So we thought, how do you build that bridge between the two? And we realized you can't make Hollywood like the church. We have boycotted them. The church has been awful to Hollywood. They've judged them and pointed fingers and thrown their TVs out, you know. But if you pray for somebody, you can't hate them. So we thought, okay, if we can get the church to pray for Hollywood, then their hearts will change and they'll stop hating Hollywood. And that can be the step of building a bridge between the two. And that's when uh 20 years ago I started the Hollywood Prayer Network. So we're trying to build spiritual growth and community in the Hollywood, and then we're trying to get Christians on the outside to embrace this place as a mission field.
SPEAKER_01:And so we came here as indigenous people because we met at USC. Um, I came uh as a music composition major. Uh Karen came as a as a theater major. And so we met doing we met doing a show called Pippin, and I saved her show.
SPEAKER_02:No, I gave him his first job. I was the producer.
SPEAKER_01:And so so we we came here just to we came here because we wanted to come here. This is you know, the Isaiah says the call of God is going out. So we came here because we wanted to work here. Um, so we did shows together, we were platonic friends for six years, and then we fell in love. Um I said, Karen, you're a girl. She said, Jim, you're a boy, and there we were.
SPEAKER_02:There we were. Got married, had kids, and we're still pals.
SPEAKER_01:Um, so uh that's that's still romantic. I know. So that's how we got. So that's how we got here. Uh and that's and that's how we've continued to stay here because Karen is still is still producing. I'm still, I just finished 50 episodes of Tom and Jerry on HBO Max. That's a shameless plug. Um so uh go kids, go watch Tom and Jerry, HBO Max. Or just listen to the music. Just listen to the music. Um so that's how we that's how we got here. Uh here's the first shameless plug. This is a book called Thriving in Babylon. And that's uh this this is this has been the this has been Thriving in Babylon by Larry Osborne. It's a fabulous book. This is a book where like I've underlined every other page, it's just it's just incredible.
SPEAKER_02:And the reason is because it talks about Daniel. And Daniel went into Babylon and he had to change his name to a pagan name. He probably got castrated, he had to teach the seers and all the dark witches and everything of that time. He was thrust right into the middle of that, and the only thing he said he would not do was eat their food. He was willing to give in to other things in order to make an eternal difference, in order to bring God and serve God in that place. And we see the exact connection to Hollywood.
SPEAKER_01:I think it's like being thrown into the writer's room at a Netflix series. That's exactly what happens. That's where you're thrown into. And then you have to decide what your, you know, what your what your list is, what you're gonna hold on to. Again, you're in Babylon.
SPEAKER_02:Uh and every Christian is different. We all have a different line to draw. And it also depends not only on our faith and our personalities, but on our career choice. Actors have harder decisions to make than assistance. It depends on where you are and what you do, but we want to encourage every believer not to be like anybody else, but to find out with their walk with Jesus what are their choices? How can they grow in their faith? How can they be faithful to him, but not be so legalistic about I can't do this, I can't do that, that we're not affected.
James Duke:Yeah, that's good. I I will give you guys credit for being the originators of what I think is a powerful um phrase, which is I remember you guys saying this years ago, and I've quoted you guys, so many people have quoted you guys in saying this, and that is Washington, DC, in our country, Washington, DC is the seat of power, but Hollywood is the seat of influence.
SPEAKER_03:That's it.
James Duke:And I I wonder if you could really help break that down for our audience. What do we mean? So when we ask people to consider prayerfully coming out here and being a part of what we're doing out here as followers of Christ, you know, act one, we're we're we're doing our best to train Christians to work in mainstream entertainment. Uh what do we mean when we use language like Hollywood is the seat of influence? And how how how can we be influential as filmmakers and as Christians working in the business?
SPEAKER_01:Uh well, first off, when I when I've we've talked to people in Washington about that, and the people in Washington will say, well, you know, Washington is just Hollywood for ugly people. So just start there. So if you're ugly in Washington, if you're beautiful, come here.
SPEAKER_02:Otherwise, they're just the same. The thing that's amazing to us, and why we're so passionate about that, is that we don't understand as Christians that the influence touches the heart, the power gets to the mind.
SPEAKER_01:So we facts go straight to the head, stories go straight to the heart. Facts go to the head, stories go to the heart. And and we know that hearts are influenced by stories, by by by moving hearts. And I think I think maybe the best example is when you started that when you started Hollywood Pro Network, you thought there was at that point because millions of people would pray for politics.
SPEAKER_02:Oh my gosh. I talked to a friend who started uh an email chain of people praying for American politics, got like five million people within a couple of years. And I thought, if I could get five million people to pray for Hollywood, the world will change. Well, here we are 20 years later, and I have like 20,000 people. And what we learn along the way is the spiritual battle. Christians will pray for our president, pray for our mayor, our congressman, our councilman, whatever it is. Politics is something every Christian embraces because they think that's where the change happens. But there's a spiritual battle that the enemy says, Oh, don't waste your time in Hollywood, that you'll lose your faith if you go there. Get a real job. Those people are hopeless. And so the enemy keeps Christians away from a place that's touching hearts and changing lives and changing, uh, creating culture. And so we have to realize that influence is more powerful spiritually than power. And so we're in a place here that tells stories. Jesus didn't come as a politician, Jesus came as a storyteller. And so, why did he do that? He knew it was more effective. So we have to look at our culture and say, really, who's the most effective? It's the storytellers. Now, ironically, the biggest gross export in America are video games. It's the storytelling, it's the interactive part, it's emotionally getting us. If there are more Christians in video games, we don't even need Christians in politics. Put them in video games. It will change the world.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, C.S. Lewis, C.S. Lewis, who is probably the um the world's greatest apologist, uh, said any amount of theology can now be smuggled into people's minds under cover of romance without their knowing it. Any amount of theology can now be smuggled into people's minds under cover of romance or art without their knowing it. So uh that is the way that's the way we influence the world is through art, through storytelling. Um, and uh there's a great uh there's a great podcast, and this is the second shameless plug. If you go to jamescovell.com, go to jamescovell.com, and there's a thing that says creative community. On that creative community tab, there's a there's a uh talk by Tim Keller, talk by Tim Keller, uh, and it's about the influence of um the friendship between Lewis and Tolkien and the Inklings, who were a group of writers that got together, uh, drank and smoke on Tuesdays, got together on Thursday nights at their uh in their rooms at Maudley College, and were writers and just tore each other's scripts apart and really created a deep, deep uh theology in their art uh and in their in their between their art and their theology. That's that was the first step.
SPEAKER_02:From Oxford, England.
SPEAKER_01:From Oxford, Oxford. And then second off, they they knew that art was the best way to influence culture. Art was the best way to influence culture. Um, thirdly, they had a community and they knew that that was a critically important. And fourth, they did it because it brought them joy. They weren't doing it to become, I don't want to be I want to become a famous writer someday. So, those that aspect of how uh of how we as artists are here and we're here to literally change the world because those guys got together, guys and women got together, they had a creative community, and that creative community literally changed the face of the planet. Because had it not been for C. S. Lewis, uh Tolkien never would have finished Lord of the Rings. And also, uh, had it not been for Tolkien, C. S Lewis never would have come to Christ because Tolkien led Lewis to Christ. Uh, and because of that, um, because he finished Lord of the Rings, then George Lucas said, I never would have written Star Wars without Lord of the Rings. There would be no Game of Thrones, there'd probably be no Marvel movies. They literally changed the planet because a group of believers got together and were in community and worked together, and they knew that that was the place to there was no politics involved anywhere, none of that nonsense. And that's how the world changes. I love that now.
SPEAKER_02:We need Christians in politics, we need Christians everywhere, we need Christians in education, we need them in medicine everywhere. I'm not saying that, but what I'm saying is if Christians can get the understanding that they can have influence supporting Christians in Hollywood, praying for the creative people, and not just focusing on, well, that they've got too many swear words in that, or that offends me. Here's another thing I hope people can understand. If they want the content of film, television, music, video games, internet, everything to change, the content will not change until the hearts of the people creating it change. And the hearts of the people will not change unless we pray for them, share our faith with them, build loving relationships with them, and lovingly lead them to Jesus. So all the Christians that say, Well, I won't watch that show because there are too many swear words. Have you prayed for the person who created that show? Because I guarantee once they become a Christian, they won't write that same stuff anymore. And that's what we want Christians to understand, both outside and inside of Hollywood.
James Duke:Look, I I'll I'll say it. I I do think that we're in competition for quality people with going into politics versus coming into the Hollywood industry. And I I I equate it to proactive versus reactive. I I think I think working to create culture uh as content creators, as filmmakers, as storytellers are here, I believe we're the proactive ones. I believe the politicians are the reactive ones. That's just my opinion on it.
SPEAKER_02:It's absolutely true because we are creating culture and they are legalizing it.
James Duke:Yeah, and they're reacting to it. And and if you look at every significant movement within our culture over the past 100 years, even um, but especially so over the past like 40 years. But you can go back a hundred years and you can see the most dramatic changes that have happened in our cult have happened in our culture by culture makers, and politicians have had to respond to that. And I think that we we sell ourselves short sometimes because yes, of course, we want Christians in every aspect of of society. Um, but artists are the tip of the spear. Artists are the tip of the spear, and there is the artists are the prophets, yeah, they're the prophets, and there are grave consequences when we ignore that. And um, I think that we need, and I love you guys have have done such a wonderful job of just mobilizing people. By the way, I celebrate that's 20,000. Getting 20,000 people to pray is is it's not five million, but boy, that is a great number, Karen. That's beautiful.
SPEAKER_02:Thank you, because I just get discouraged. Like, come on, people.
James Duke:We'll get to five million one day, but boy, that's a beautiful that that's beautiful to hear that there's 20,000 people around uh all over um praying for for for the Christians in Hollywood. I you know, for you guys, I'm sure there are times over the years that you have found yourself. You know, discouraged. There's been plenty of times when you've been like, wow, this is a hard road to plow. But I'm sure there are also examples of those moments of grace that God has given you, both as individuals and as a couple, uh, whether it's uh in your own work or just through ministry, those moments of grace that kind of keeps you going. Can you think of a couple of can you think of a couple of those moments that you could share with our audience that moments that just God just blessed you with wow, this is why we do what we do, this is why we invest in how we invest in people, this is why we pray. Um, are there just some stories you could share with us, maybe one or two of uh of end whether it's individuals or projects or whatever, that you um that God just just blessed you guys with? And maybe maybe it was a time when you were going through some um frustration and uh God brought you out of it by some some encouraging um situation.
SPEAKER_02:I have one last week. Last week we had a young man stay with us for four days, and he is the fiance of a woman who is an a new industry professional. And the fiance who was staying with us was coming to visit, they're getting married in a few months, and he is a businessman, and he came here really not wanting to live in Hollywood. They love each other and want to get married, but he was not convinced about this place. And we didn't know it. We just invited him in, let him stay with us so that they could spend time together, and he was in our home, and we spent time talking to him and getting to know him a little bit. And just a couple days ago, we learned from the woman who's an industry professional that while he was here, he changed his whole heart and said, I can live in Hollywood. I met the Covells, we talked about the industry, and I can live in Hollywood now. That's worth everything to me. Now this couple has a shared vision. Now they can live here, and she can fulfill the desires of her heart. He can be right here supporting her without that attitude that often comes with ignorance of, oh no, not that place. That's a terrible place. It's a place like any other place. And it's so important to the industry professional to want her future spouse to share a vision. And we watched it happen, and that's really, really worth it.
SPEAKER_01:Let's see, I'll go way back uh when uh our son was eight years old. Um, he had a brain tumor. And um we uh we hadn't we had we hadn't worked that year at all. It was just like a it was a it was a it was just a giant hurricane of things that happened.
SPEAKER_02:We joked and said we couldn't pay people to hire us then.
SPEAKER_01:It was just it was just brutal. And um, so uh I that was probably like we're discouraged. We were discouraged. Um, but uh because we had been, because there was we had premise and we had a we had a large group of people that came around us, prayed for us, gave us money, did things for us, you know. Cut our lawn, walked up and just handed us stuff. Amazing! Yeah, um that was like okay, we're discouraged, but because again, because we're in community, people came around us, um, we could we could keep we could keep going forward.
SPEAKER_02:I by the way, our son is fine today, miraculously fine. But we learned about prayer and about the love of community then, and it changed us forever.
James Duke:So we when you guys um look at the the changing forces of our of our business right now, and for years we've talked about you know, come to Hollywood, make a difference in Hollywood, uh, work in Hollywood, work alongside other people here in Hollywood, help us build the community of of faithful believers out here. When you look at the changes that our our business is going through, um, have you changed kind of the way you present that? Because the community, quote unquote, of Hollywood has expanded outside of these zip codes, right? Like what we call Hollywood now is all over, right? It's huge in Georgia, it's huge in I mean China and Canada, and even there's all kinds of stuff developing um in New Mexico now and just all kinds of stuff. So I'm just curious, looking at the changing landscape of our industry, um, how do we nuance this uh this call to action for Christians? Because I think you guys just tapped on in your own personal story something that is so important. If people get anything from this podcast, I pray they get this. You cannot do this alone. You need community. So, how do we call people to that when the community itself is kind of fractured literally all over the world now? What is your advice for Christians? Um, do you do they still need to come to Hollywood proper? What what is your advice on how Christians should engage in the culture through Hollywood today?
SPEAKER_02:Well, you're right. Hollywood is global. It's it it's a it's not a specific place anymore. We saw that a lot during COVID. I was discouraged at first during COVID that so many Christians who we had poured into or we had loved or we had felt like we were walking alongside left. And then I thought, no, wait a minute though. They came here, they got a vision of the power of the arts and entertainment, and they're gonna take it somewhere else. And that's a really good thing. Years ago at the prayer network, I started local chapters around the world. We now have 152 local chapters in 39 countries. So we have either prayer warriors or we have creative professionals all over the world connected with us to say, pray for the local artists in your city, in your country, in your region, so that this global idea of Hollywood is followed by prayer. And so people in Norway, people in China, people all over the world have a connection to say you're not only pursuing your career, but we believe this is a mission field right where you are. This is a marketplace that needs prayer. And we have prayer warriors everywhere. And that's been growing as Hollywood has grown out of this specific LA locale. The the chapters are growing. The people are getting this vision of, oh, wait, we can pray for people everywhere. We can be creative professionals anywhere. We still need community, we need prayer, we need the support of other believers, but we can be entertainment and art professionals anywhere around the globe.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, and being intentional, starting your own inklings group is the first step. Yes. Uh, getting together and cultivating that, because you know, basically the pastor doesn't get you, your family doesn't get you, so you need to get with people that get you. Um uh and then second off, I think I think there still is the idea that, well, I can just sort of be somewhere else and sort of do this thing. Listen, that that that's not true. That's just not true to a certain extent. Uh, that if you want to write, if you want to write television, um you need to be in Los Angeles. You need to be in community and you need to be there to if you want to be in theater, musical theater, you need to be in New York. If you want to be in the music business, uh in general, if you're a songwriter like this, you probably need to be in Nashville. Um, if you want to be a composer, you just pretty much got to live in Los Angeles. That's just, you know, you can't be a now, yes, you can be a composer and become successful here, and then maybe you can go start your studio somewhere else. But that's just it's location, location, location. It's relationships. And if anything we found during the pandemic, relationships are not fostered over Zoom. They're they're not. You have to be in the flesh and touch this person and say, like, oh, I see. So that's that's uh I believe that's somewhere in people's idea. Well, I'll just go move somewhere else, come away, I'll raise my children someplace safe. Well, that's just a that's a lie from the enemy. We raised our children right here uh in Los Angeles. They went to public school for 75% of the time. They love Jesus. Um uh they are out doing their own thing now, and we're still here. So we're still here, and we're in relationship. And that's um that's critical. We're here for two things, uh to love God and to love others.
SPEAKER_02:And that's it. Now, it is fabulous how the industry is growing in Atlanta, it's growing in Louisiana, it's growing in Texas, it's growing in Canada, it has been growing in Canada. It's been, there are other cities that are that are either starting, duplicating, or expanding on the Hollywood community, but they still need community and they still need that mindset. Because I had a friend tell me not long ago from Nashville saying, I envy your Hollywood community of Christians because everybody in Nashville is a Christian. And so we don't feel the need for each other. We don't go out of our way to pray for each other, to spend time with each other, to encourage one another. And he goes, I envy that because I want to be needing community to the point where we are strategically making an eternal difference. I don't want to be mediocre and just assume, well, everybody's a Christian. So I think that's a gift that we have that, and I want to see that in other cities. I don't want people to go somewhere safe and then just kick back because everybody's a Christian. We still want artists to be on the edge to say we need Jesus, we need each other, and we have to take steps to really make that happen.
James Duke:That's really good, Karen. I I think that yeah, we works. We've I've definitely had those similar conversations with people in Georgia and um and Tennessee. I want to ask you guys a little bit about living your faith out here in Hollywood, in the industry. Uh uh as you mentioned, there's fewer of us out here. The remnant. Yeah, the remnant. And so with that comes this uh huge need and value, obviously, for um just growth as a person of faith, like not just to have a stagnant faith that just um that just kind of sits there and doesn't really grow. And and I and I think the the scripture is full of of um calls to action for believers to develop their faith, to grow in their faith, to um to uh mature in their faith. And um, and yet there's all kinds of things in in our culture in our in in this area that kind of war against um uh some of this stuff, and and not not probably dramatically different than pretty much any place else in the world, uh, because there's always going to be things coming coming against the church. But at the same time, it does feel at times out here, it does feel maybe uh more of an intense pressure. So, my my question to you guys is this how do you counsel, how do you counsel and encourage Christians to live out their faith working in an industry that isn't necessarily um comfortable with their faith? How do you encourage them? Because you know, at Act One, I often uh ask our students, one of the most important things you can do is not be weird, right? Like, like just don't don't be weird about your faith, right? Like live your faith out, love people, be Jesus to them, just don't be weird, you know, and so um things to all people so that some might be saved.
SPEAKER_02:We don't have to be outcasts to have an influence. We can be enjoying them, being like them in the sense of being an artist, being creative, walking alongside, understanding them, and then having the confidence that we have a message and a love that they haven't experienced.
SPEAKER_01:Uh, it's being authentic. Yeah. Okay. So if you're off if you're being authentic is probably the first and foremost thing that uh, and being genuine, because people are attracted to that. Uh, you know, in the in again in the writer's room, uh, the idea gets popped out there, and nobody says, Well, what do you think? What do you think? What do you think? And they're just looking for someone that has an opinion that is settled in their opinion and what they believe. So I think authenticity is probably the is the first thing.
SPEAKER_02:And the second thing is that we really have to love the people that we're here with. We can't have people as projects. I'm at this workplace because I know the bosses need to become Christians. Well, do you love them? Do you know who they are? Do you spend time with them and ask them questions and learn about them and share life with them? We we learned a great thing just recently from a friend of ours who is a missionary in northern Uganda, very difficult place. And she said that she was driving from one city to another years ago and felt fear, like, wow, I'm this is scary. And she stopped her car and said, Lord, I'm so sorry. I feel afraid. Um, I think I need to have more faith. And she said she felt the Lord saying to her, No, you don't need more faith. You need more love. You need to love these people. If you love them the way I do, you won't have fear. And I think that's the problem with Christians. We have anger and fear because we don't love people enough. And if we really are called to a people group where we are sharing gifts and talents, we're sharing careers, we're walking alongside them, we have to love them so much that the obstacles don't discourage us. The the closed doors are just a part of the about the culture. And we're not um angry or afraid or frustrated. We just love them so much that we know that's the reason we're here.
SPEAKER_01:Uh Jeremiah 19, uh 9 and 7 says, But blessed is the man who trusts in the Lord, whose confidence is in him. He'll be like a tree that's planted by the water that sends out its roots by the stream. It doesn't fear when he comes, its leaves are always green, it has no worries in the ear of drought and never fails to bear fruit. So it's where our confidence is placed that is the crucial, is the crucial thing. So I tell this story when I'm talking to Act One or when I'm talking to any group of students, I say we have to have confidence, and where we put that confidence is crucial. So I was called by a music supervisor over at Universal to come uh send my reel over. So I sent my reel over, and then so I start the follow-up calls to get the meeting because this person said uh she said she wanted to be with me. So I start to make the calls and then I start to get the runaround, like, oh, I'm sorry, she just stepped out. Oh, I'm sorry, who's calling? Oh, she's not available right now. And so it's about five or six times. And finally, uh I realized I'm not gonna get this meeting. Five or so, there's like five or uh like my five or five or six phone calls. And then finally I tell the assistant, the last phone call is that Mary, I just want you to tell your boss if she knew who from my father was, she probably wouldn't treat me this way. So thanks very much. So I hang up now. Of course, I'm not talking about my father in Albuquerque, New Mexico, talking about my heavenly father. And so literally, like in two minutes later, the phone rings. The assistant calls and says, Um, can I could could Mary meet with you tomorrow at 10 o'clock? Oh, sure, I'm glad to come in. So I go in, we have a meeting, it's all uh it's all lovey-dovey, everything. She never asks who my father is, but I had the meeting because my confidence was in who my who my heavenly father is, not my earthly father.
SPEAKER_02:Now, my not that person or that boss or that associate.
SPEAKER_01:Uh so but if your confidence is in there, if your confidence is there, then you can be authentic, you can love each, you can love one another. When in a year of drought, you'll never fail to bear fruit. Uh, all these things are all these things are uh essential in where your confidence is is placed. So that's first and foremost.
SPEAKER_02:And if our confidence is in the Lord, we can get through hard times. One of the things that we get sad about with some Christians here is when things get hard, they think God is letting them down. And that's not true. God never promises us that it's going to be easy, that because we love him, everything's just going to be handed to us.
SPEAKER_01:God's never gonna give you more than you can handle. That's a lie. He's going to give you way more than you can handle because then you need him. Yeah, it's this is a uh in first uh this is in 1 Corinthians, it's it says, friends, we don't want you to win, we don't want you to be unaware of the difficulties we experience. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so much that we wanted to die. But this happened that we might not rely on ourselves, but on God who raises the dead. And that, yes, he's going to give you more than you can handle. This is much too difficult for you, but he's put you in this place because he wants you to give him the authority to let you to let him lift you up.
SPEAKER_02:And we've gone through crazy hard times where it would have been so easy to give up, and we would have felt like God was showing us this wasn't right. And the fact was, God was building our perseverance. I don't know whether it's stubbornness or faith, but man, he has built it up in us because we know the the goal is ahead, and we can't look at the at the ditches in the road. We have to look at the goal and say we're headed that direction. And God is with us, He's encouraging us, He loves us, and He's gonna care for us along the way.
James Duke:Yes, that's beautiful.
SPEAKER_01:We may have been in a ditch, but we are never in a rut.
James Duke:So yeah. Well, uh you guys are touching on a lot.
SPEAKER_02:We're never in a rut. No, we're in a rut, but we're never in a ditch. I think that's anyway, doesn't it?
James Duke:Um no, you guys are touching on uh not that last part, but the other stuff you said was a lot of wisdom. Um no, but seriously, there's a lot of really good stuff there in terms of kind of unpacking it a little bit. I think that uh one of the things that um Jim, when you speak about confidence, uh we all know that something that the majority of artists struggle with um universally is insecurity. There is such a deep-seated insecurity in artists, there's a constant questioning of am I good enough? Is my art good enough? Is art, is my writing, is my story, are my stories, is my music, uh, am I am I able to do this? And and then we we do that, and at the same time, we then begin to compare ourselves with other artists. And so if we say, look at that person, they they have jobs, they have money, they have wealth, they have success, you know, in the eyes of the world, you know, whatever we that then just feeds that insecurity even more. And it's even for Christians, this is an incredibly difficult tightrope to walk in this business. But yet, what I hear you guys saying is yes, acknowledge it. We're human beings, we struggle with this, but we don't have to because as followers of Christ, we have the power of the Holy Spirit where we can actually acknowledge these are our struggles, but don't succumb to them, right? Like we this life will beat you down, it will pound you down into the floor. But but as followers of Jesus, we serve a resurrected God who can resurrect us in our worst moments, in our defeats. I I I love someone said once the criticism that atheism has against Christianity or is you know, the whole, what was it, uh Nietzsche or something about religion is a crutch. And it's like, well, yeah, because we acknowledge that we're sick and we need crutches every day.
SPEAKER_02:I love it that I have a crutch.
James Duke:We we acknowledge that we are yes, we acknowledge that we are broken people in need of a savior. Uh, so I really, I really like what you guys are are are saying with that. Do you for you guys personally, where does this joy and passion come from for you guys? Like um, I I know you mentioned earlier, Jim, that you guys met at USC. Tell us a little bit about your story as a couple. Uh, clearly, God spoke to you guys uh early on about how to just because this is hard. Like living out here is hard. You've acknowledged the hardship. And so I'd love just to hear, I'd love for people to hear your journey. I it's really important for our audience to hear that that you can you can have a great marriage, you can you can um you can raise kids, you can have a career, uh, you can help take care of other people. I I'd love while living out here and working in this business. And so let's start at the beginning of you guys' relationship. When when God first brought you guys together, Karen, what were what were what did you start out doing in the business? And Jim, what were you doing in the business at the time?
SPEAKER_02:Well, I grew up in Chicago in a home where we went to church, but we knew nothing personally about Jesus. And I came to USC to be a theater major, and I was assigned a college roommate who was a committed believer. And all my freshman year in this little dorm room, my roommate was on a mission to get me to understand the love of Jesus. And by three weeks before the end of my freshman year, I was walking through campus and I said, I said, God, I want what Debbie has. But there are three things I don't want. I do not want to tell anybody about you because my dad had taught me there are two things you do not talk about politics and religion. Second of all, I do not want to be a missionary. And third of all, I do not want to go to Africa. But other than that, you have all of me. And I miraculously became a Christian right there. And the first thing I did three weeks later was go back home to Chicago and share my faith with my mother, and she became a Christian. And then I realized years later, oh my gosh, we're missionaries in Hollywood. And then years later, we took a trip to Africa. It was the best trip of our entire life. So don't tell God what you don't want to do.
SPEAKER_01:Jim said, I don't want a billion dollars, God. That's what you do. That's right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Now I got my joy from my dad. My dad was, I'm just I'm my dad's girl. His DNA was just joyful. He was fun, he was lively, he was just great. I think Jim got his joy from prayer and reading scripture because he is and memorizing scripture. I truly think that that's just it keeps because you get funnier as you've got to look more scripture.
SPEAKER_01:I'm just first off, I'm just the trophy husband. That's all I'm doing. I'm just the trophy husband. Um uh and but I mean, the the most critical linchpin here for us is that we started praying together as a couple. We started every day 37 years. So we've been married 13,748 days today. Uh, and um, because I knew renew Karen's contract every hundred days. I know how to negotiate. So we prayed together every single day. That is a that is the essential, yep, it's the essential thing for us as a couple. Absolutely. Um, and um, we also we had a after about like 10 years into our marriage, we came up with a mission statement for our marriage, and we encourage every young couple to come up with a there's a reason God brought you together, there's a reason God brought us together as a couple. Our mission statement was threefold. First off, how do we get people to pray, praying for each other? Uh, praying for people on the outside, praying for people in entertainment. Prayer is the first point. Second point was how do we share our faith in a culturally relevant way? How do we be authentic? How do we tell stories? That was the second thing. And the third, that this is the most influential marketplace. This is where culture has changed, this is where things happen. So those were the three things that we gave put together in our mission statement.
SPEAKER_02:And it gave us the freedom to say no to things that don't fall within what we believe is the reason God brought us together.
SPEAKER_01:Yes, because my wife can say no to nothing. Say no. Yes, it's not happening. That's mine, that's our life in a nutshell right there. Lucy. Oh my gosh. So so that so that's foremost, uh, the prayer being a crucial, crucial part of it. Um, praying with our children every day also a very important part.
SPEAKER_02:And we we really believe that bringing scripture in, when we don't know how to pray for something, we just read scripture and we pray for that person through scripture. We don't know any wonderful, incredible words to pray. I I always even joke and say, I don't pray, I facilitate prayer because it's such a daunting thing to think that you know, I know how to pray. But we can pray through scripture, and you taught me that. And just the biblical principles that I believe have given us strength. Another thing that has changed with me a lot is when years ago Jim said, okay, we could work seven days a week and kill ourselves, or we can recognize the Sabbath and stop on Sunday and take time with God and be with each other and rest and not just be on this treadmill seven days a week. And I would have done that, I would have worked myself to death. And he introduced that. I look forward to Sundays. It's a time of renewal and refreshment, and it's it's different than every other day. And it's it's why God, God didn't do it to punish us, he's doing everything to give us more life and more joy and more uh effectiveness. And so following biblical principles, praying together, reading scripture, I don't know, I just think we need him desperately, and he fills us up.
SPEAKER_01:And we do find joy in our work. I mean, I I enjoy I enjoy writing music for TV shows and films, and that's and every day is different. Um, so whether it's animation or whether it's live action or whether it's music for a library, or I work with the London Symphony, I recorded with London Symphony, but a lot of times it's me and a guitar player here. I mean, there's so I find joy in whatever it is that got people say, What is your most favorite project? I say the one that's paying me the most money today. That's fine, you know, so that's what that's good. Okay. Uh so we find joy in in everyday things that way.
SPEAKER_02:And I think we we have to ultimately find joy in our purpose more than our circumstances. And I think that's a big difference. Christians are looking to avoid pain, we're looking to have things come easily. I think a lot of believers don't realize that they're hanging on to the Lord just so that He can make their life better instead of changing us from the inside out and making us more Christ-like, which ultimately is better, ironically. But in the short term, I think we have to, we have to be in life for the long haul and know. I believe Hollywood is one of the slowest mission fields in the whole world. We have to slowly build relationships, we have to slowly build a career, we have to slowly build access. It's it is not overnight. And you have to have that mindset to go, okay, I'm here for the long haul.
James Duke:We're long haulers, yes.
SPEAKER_02:We're long haulers, yeah.
James Duke:Long haulers. I, you know, I grew up, I grew up in the Bible Belt. I grew up in Tennessee in Memphis and came to faith as a as a I grew up in a Christian home and I came to faith as a as a as a little kid. And um uh when I came out here, I noticed that it it felt different, you know, like it it it it felt different in in many different ways, not uh aside from the obvious things like the dry heat versus the humidity and the traffic and the traffic, yeah. In in the Bible Belt, there is this sense of a cultural Christianity where um you're really trying to discern um as best you can how to live your life in accordance to scripture and the people around you they understand the language, they understand the mindset, but they might not necessarily hold to the actual faith because they grew up in a you know in a in a culture that the the stories of the scripture, the name of Jesus, everything is it's it's all just permeates to the top and uh or not or percolates to the top, uh, but it does permeate the culture. Whereas out here, the uh I oftentimes it surprised me how many people I know that I'm friends with that I'm the only Christian they know. I'm the I'm the only Christian they know. And I've had some hysterical conversations with my friends who are who are not Christians, who are the only Christian they know. I remember one of my favorite ones was very early on when I moved here, I was working at Warner Brothers, and one of the guys I was working with, he told me it was right before Y2K. You remember the craziness of Y2K?
SPEAKER_02:Everybody lost their minds.
James Duke:And I remember my friend Steve, he said to me, He's he's he asked me, he said, Hey, we were talking about Y2K, and he goes, Yeah, like what are you gonna do? Uh New Year's. He's like, Are you going into a bunker or something? And I was like, excuse me, what? And he goes, Well, you know, you're a Christian, right? He goes, Don't you think the world's gonna blow up? And I was like, What are you talking about? And he went on to tell me that that was his understanding. He's he's like, Oh, I thought Christians thought the world was gonna blow up. He's like, I thought you were, I was like, No, no, it's like, let me explain to you how this works. So, anyway, it I tell that story to relate to kind of what you're saying, and that out here we kind of have this um unique opportunity to represent Christ in a way that it blows stereotypes, it blows stereotypes like it. That's why it feels more like a mission field, like to back to your back to kind of what we were talking about initially, which is you know, when when a when a when a when an old school kind of classic missionary would move into a village someplace of an unreached people group, the idea was they were to move there and they were to learn the culture, they were to learn the language, and they were then learn how to translate the love of Christ into the language of that culture. And people that that they would be that would be the only representative of Christ that that village would know. And living out here feels a lot more like that than oftentimes other places in our country where people I can't tell you how many people they they never even heard of Jesus outside of the using his name in profanity. Yeah, and so for you guys, one of the things I think is fine so beautiful is that you guys have embraced this life, and by embracing this life of being like, no, no, we'll choose like we'll live this life of you can identify us as a Christian, we'll take on that burden, we'll take on that responsibility, but but you haven't done it alone, and you've built a family through doing it. And I think that's one of the things that's so beautiful and encouraging for other people to see is that you guys have chosen to live this life in this town in such a way that is pleasing and honoring to God, but by no stretch has it been easy, by no stretch has it been without its own pains and issues and all that kind of stuff, and yet you've done it and you continue to do it. And I just thank you. I thank you for the example that you've been to so many of us.
SPEAKER_02:Well, thank you. It's by the grace of God, and honestly, if we want to talk on a human level, we're disappointed with how our careers have not gone to the place where we want them to go. I wanted to run a studio, I wanted Jim to be the top film composer of all time, and it we're not there. But we have so many other rich joys along the way, and I wouldn't change it for anything in the world. But there are so many stories while you were talking that I think about this culture here. I mean, Jim scored a movie. We were at the rap party, the typical Hollywood rap party in the house in the Hollywood Hills. You know, we're out on the balcony overlooking Los Angeles, talking to the director of the film. And I don't know how he gets on these topics, but somehow it came up where Jim said that we didn't sleep together before we got married. Well, you would have thought that that director had heard that the world was about to end. He was so thrilled.
SPEAKER_01:That is the weirdest thing I've ever heard. I could write a book about that.
SPEAKER_02:What is that about? So we started this conversation. It never even crossed his mind that you wouldn't sleep together before you got married. It was a totally outside the box concept for him. Now, for Christians that are used to being around Christians, well, that's obvious. But we are in a place where this is brand new information. And he wasn't offended by it. He was so intrigued. We started this whole conversation. Slowly, other people started coming around us. Soon I looked around and thought, oh my goodness, we're holding court. It was wild. And it was just because we just casually mentioned that what we chose to do was so counter-cultural to what he was used to that he needed to know more. And that there are so many stories like that. Oh my goodness, where we just be ourselves, we walk into a situation, and somebody is so intrigued that they need to know more.
SPEAKER_01:I had a friend who was a composer and I met with him for uh numerous months just because he was going through a very deep dark depression. And uh at one point he left a message on my machine that said, you know, I just want to, you know, I I've never had uh a friend like you, like one of those born-againers or whatever it is. I don't know what that's about, but uh I just appreciate you being my friend. So here we are, just being countercultural, being authentic, caring for people. Uh, and and that's kind of that's a key to survival.
SPEAKER_02:It really is. It's also an issue that more Christians need to talk about here because they come with the concept of what is right and what is wrong. And a big challenge that we talk to young people about these days is you got to decide what part of your faith is cultural and what part is biblical.
SPEAKER_03:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:We got to start peeling away the cultural beliefs because they're not always biblical.
James Duke:That's right.
SPEAKER_02:We need to be outside that cultural church box and be more radically Christ-like.
James Duke:That's right. That's beautiful. Well said. Well said. Jim, where did your love of music come from? And and when did you decide that you wanted to pursue pursue a career in music professionally?
SPEAKER_01:Um, so I grew up in a in a Southern Baptist church environment where you sang in church in church choir from day one. So I was always singing in choir to start with. Um, my first instrument was trumpet. Um, and then I started playing. I taught myself guitar in junior high because that's how you get girls. Uh, and then I taught myself piano in uh high school because that's how you get girls. Uh I guess it was a theme. I write a song for you every year for her birthday. Because you got this girl. Because I got the girl. Just write them a song. Um, and uh so there was nobody in my family that was in show business or had any idea about what this was. Um, and um, so I didn't know, it's just it was kind of it was kind of a passion that I I wanted to do, and um I just I just pursued it. Um and he really he actually jokes and even says the only thing my dad can the only instrument, the only instrument my father could play was the radio. So I mean there was like no music, but he did play a lot of cold train, a lot of uh brewback, uh a lot of jazz, uh Nat King Cole. I mean, that's what was kind of like my earliest memory musical memories that kind of growing up.
James Duke:Um, so when did you know? But was there a moment that you thought I could make money doing like when I would just I'm curious, like wait a minute. Do you do you make actually make money doing this? Oh my gosh, why because there's I mean, there's lots of uh part, I mean, because there's lots of people out there who obviously are are talented musicians and they enjoy they enjoy music, but that's a there's a big difference between just enjoying music and actually saying, no, no, I can actually pursue this as a career. Was there a was there a particular um anything that basically led you to that?
SPEAKER_02:That's an interesting question.
SPEAKER_01:Uh my first okay, the my first gig. Okay, it's this.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_01:This is my first gig. Okay, sorry. Okay, Jim Covell Lounge 9 to 1.
SPEAKER_02:It's the outside of a roadway inn in San Diego.
James Duke:Okay, okay, this is an audio podcast. So let me describe what we're looking at.
SPEAKER_02:Okay of the roadway inn in San Diego that says Restaurant Lounge, Jim Covell nine to one.
SPEAKER_01:Nice, nice.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I wasn't even actually was 20 years old. I wasn't actually even old enough to be in the lounge. So I but I was and I was making uh like the 300 bucks a week. That was like wow, 300 bucks a week. So um that's that's good money. Wait, that's good money for now.
SPEAKER_02:That's good money today, right? Uh the weird thing is we never neither one of us ever felt like God had called us to this. Both of us really just wanted to do it. It was just an interest that we uh stubbornly kept fighting for. I mean, even at USC, Jim came into the USC composition program as um on probation. They didn't even fully accept him, they weren't sure because he wanted to do this pop music, this film scoring, and they were more classical. And he literally was like one of the only people in this program who actually graduated and got are living what you got trained in doing. So it wasn't that, oh, God wanted us to do this. I mean, honestly, Jim jokes and said, You know, you're called when the phone rings.
SPEAKER_01:So um I don't think there was uh there was not any doubt, I guess, about again, starting out back being in the in the music business. I played in the clubs. I wanted to be Elton John, I wanted to be the straight version of Elton John, uh, or Jim Croce or Barry Metal or something like that. So that's what I wanted to do. And then I so then I got my degree in music composition. And so I said, How do I make a living? This they said, we don't know, you got to figure that out. But since I was at USC, I I started scoring films at USC with other filmmakers, and um, so that's that was just a logical uh step.
James Duke:What would what what would you have? So here's a question for you what would you have done if you had not become a composer, a professional composer?
SPEAKER_01:I probably would have built houses.
SPEAKER_02:Really? Builds everything, our entire house is redone because when he's not writing music, he's building something. He's adding he's gutting a he's gutting the kitchen, he's putting in sky. Highlights, he's he's just amazing as a carpenter.
James Duke:Oh, that's very cool.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:I would have made a lot more money at that, probably. But that's uh ultimately that's unfulfilling. That's a that's my biggest hobby.
James Duke:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Karen is my biggest hobby, but that's my second biggest hobby.
SPEAKER_02:I don't know. I'll take that. Umby.
James Duke:There we go. Karen, when you were when he when you renew your hundred-day contract with him, just change make sure you change the language, the title of that.
SPEAKER_02:You're not kidding. Thank you for the thank you for the insight. Oh my god.
James Duke:What about you, Karen? When when did the idea of having a career as a because you were you started out in theater, and how did you go from um being a was it were you're a theater major?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, I was a theater major, and then I I was in a very creative home growing up. My mother had been an actress, my father had been a singer, and my oldest sister who I looked up to was an amazing actress. And so I wanted to be an actress. In high school, I was the lead in the play, and I thought I'd go and be an actress. And I got to USC in the theater school, and the first week I learned that the freshmen weren't allowed to act in the main stage shows that they had to just train for the first year. And I thought, well, what the heck? I didn't come here just to be in class. So I started a freshman theater company. And I lined up getting money to get a stage on campus, and I got the freshmen together, and we did shows and we performed. And I realized soon I wasn't on stage. I was running the show. I was getting the money, I was setting everything up. And then I started being in the assistant director and finding out the behind the scenes how that worked. Finally, by my my junior year of college, the the head of the department came to me and said, Karen, what are you going to do when you get out of school? And I said, Oh, I don't know. I said, I'm really good at a lot of things, but I'm not great at really anything. And he said, My dear, that's the definition of a producer. And so I thought, oh my gosh. And then he pointed out I had never been on stage for the last three years and that I was doing all of these things behind the scenes. And I said, Well, then I want to be a producer. How do I do that? And he said, Well, we don't have a producing major here. And I said, Well, let's start one. Can I start and can I get a theater producing major? So I formed a theater producing major at USC, which is still there. And I got that degree and I went out and just loved being the one to put the whole project together. So I thought I was going to be in theater in LA until I graduated and find out there is no way you can make a good living at theater in LA. So I got a job at a TV production company and started getting really excited about that. And now I produce shows, I create ideas, I have a producing partner and we're working on projects. And I just love it. I also love that I'm involved in the Producers Guild. I have met the most amazing people there. And again, it's a lot of people who have never met a Christian.
SPEAKER_03:Yep.
SPEAKER_02:And it's incredible in a place like Los Angeles to get these opportunities to be creative, to love people along the way, and to see how God is just showing up all the time.
James Duke:That's great. That's so fascinating. So you helped launch the theater producing major at USC.
SPEAKER_02:Yep. Yep.
James Duke:That is really cool. That is very cool.
SPEAKER_02:I just had to produce something else, I guess.
James Duke:Um, so if we go on campus, we'll see the Karen Covell statue like right outside the doors, like you, like oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Keep looking. You're gonna look a long time.
unknown:Oh my gosh.
James Duke:Um, so let's talk a little bit about what I know is your has been just this baby that has birthed out of your passion for loving people in Hollywood, and that is the Hollywood Prayer Network. Um, for for anybody in our audience, I think probably most of the people who listen to our podcast have probably heard about it in some way, shape, or form. But for for those who haven't, um, what is the Hollywood Prayer Network and how can people get involved?
SPEAKER_02:Oh, I love it. We have three purposes. One is to encourage, mobilize, and challenge Christians on the outside of Hollywood to recognize Hollywood as a place where Christians should be and to pray for the people here so that we can have an influence with support of the Christian body. A lot of Christians who come here are completely beat up before they even start because their family doesn't think they should be here, their church is not supporting their move here, and they feel very alone. The second purpose is to build a community of people here because artists tend to be very isolated and we need each other. So I try to build and network Christians to get involved in the church, to get involved in a small group, to get involved in a prayer group, to find friends that really can be open with about their life here and build a strong community. It also makes us more visible as a people group to know that we need each other. And the third thing is to encourage people here to share their faith with their non-Christian friends, associates, co-workers, bosses, creative partners, and do it in a way that's not trying to make people change, but just to be excited about our faith and to have confidence in God and to let other people know about it. Because artists are intrinsically very spiritual people. This is not a people group that's against spiritual things, it's a people group who want to know more about that. They just don't have access to it. And so I actually, you mentioned before that it's a hidden people's group. I actually years ago called the U.S. Center for World Missions, who started the phrase hidden people's group and said, you guys, this is an amazing concept. It's absolutely true. You have a list of countries and people groups and all over who are hidden peoples. You forgot one place, and that's Hollywood. And they laughed. The guy laughed on the phone. And I said, No, no, no, no. We have our own culture, we have our own language that we speak, we have our own gods that we worship, we have no access to the gospel. There are literally people here. We have given them a Bible and they've never touched a Bible before. This is a hidden people's group. The celebrities in Hollywood are untouchables. We can't even get to them, let alone people on the outside. And so that's the third thing to get excited about sharing our faith to a hidden people's group. So I started it 20 years ago. We just celebrated our 20th anniversary. It's been, as I mentioned, very slow going. But what I have found in the meantime is that the spiritual battle is worth fighting, that this is such an important place that when Christians' eyes just glaze over when they hear prayer in Hollywood, that's that doesn't make sense to just keep praying. Lord, you're the one to soften hearts, you're the one to change perspectives. I just have to keep spewing the news and letting people hear it and then let the Holy Spirit work on them. But since the 80s, when we came until now, we barely found six other people to found to start a prayer group then. And now we know of over 10,000 Christians in Hollywood. And that's only the ones that we know. We know there are so many more. And I'm not saying that's because of us, I'm saying because we are a part of a movement of God that started in the early 80s to decide to let Christians know we should be here. It's okay to work here, it's it's possible to build our faith here. And I just want the Hollywood Prayer Network to be one of the places that people can go to be encouraged in that. Now, if people want to join us, oh my gosh, you just go to HollywoodPrayerNetwork.org, click join the movement. We have prayer partnerships where we have a Christians on the outside matched with a Christian on the inside to pray for them as their medium missionary. We need more intercessors. We have a kids and teen prayer calendar every month. It's uploaded by one of our amazing local chapter directors that you can download it for kids, youth pastors, parents to say, let's not let just our kids mass consume things, but let's have them praying for the people they're watching on Nickelodeon or Disney. They're listening to on their the music that they listen to. We have the local chapters around the world. People can go online, look down our entire list of local chapters, and the local chapter director and their email address is right there. You can reach out to them, see how you can get involved, or if you're from a place that doesn't have a local chapter near you, get a hold of us, we'll help you start a chapter. We want to have chapters in many more countries around the world. And then we have our bi-weekly call sheet where people every two weeks can read how they can pray for inside issues in Hollywood. How can we pray for the Iopsy strike potential? How do we pray for someone who's struggling here? How do we pray for business issues, personal issues, projects? Um, we just want any way for people to get plugged in and join us in this movement.
SPEAKER_01:And if you'd like to support Jim Covell, go to jamescovell.com. I'm accepting all donations. You are you are hopeless.
James Duke:I love it.
SPEAKER_01:Hopefully they're going to send me money.
James Duke:I love it. I wonder there, I I oftentimes, and I know you guys do too, and this is why I want to ask you this question. I often interact with two types of uh two types of people are I put them in two different types of categories. Oftentimes they are they are Christians that that hold one of two extreme opinions. And I wonder if you could, if there, if these um individuals are listening to this podcast, I'd like for you to to to to address them. One is the Christian who says, look, I'm a filmmaker, I'm an artist. If if if it comes out that I'm a Christian, it's completely incidental. I keep my faith private, it's not connected to my art. I'm just trying to pursue my art. Frankly, I'm embarrassed of all types of Christianity that's out there these days. As far as I'm concerned, like people can, you know, people can interact with Jesus in some way, any way they want, but I'm focused on my craft, my art. Um and then the other category that I interact with sometimes is the extreme opposite, which is you know, I'm loud and proud, and I want to tell everybody about Jesus. And and frankly, I don't even know if making film is worth it. And if if I'm making film, it has to be only a film about Jesus. I can only make films about Jesus, I can only make films about the Bible. Uh, why waste my time on this dirty, dirty culture? So I what is your advice to both of those individuals?
SPEAKER_01:I'll address the first group, you address the second group. First group, you need to have a well-thought-out again. This is going back to the Tim Keller podcast on my website. Um, you need to have well thought-out theology of how your faith integrates with your work. If you don't have that thought, I believe you're just gonna waft and wander. Uh again, going back to Tolkien, Tolkien believed that whatever he did, um his the his worldview, his faith should be integrated in his work. And I believe if your faith is if your faith is not integrated in your work, then I believe then you're being inauthentic, uh, you're not being real, and you're gonna wander. Now, everybody has a worldview, and you need to you need to figure out what that is. If you believe that the you know the world is lost, it's you know, man is just an idiot walking along the path of no redemption, then fine, that's your worldview. But I believe you have to think about as an artist why am I here? What is it I'm trying to say? Uh and and where am I going? And where, you know, those all those dramatic questions. Who am I? Why am I here? Where am I going? And then I say, and then when am I going to get paid? Okay. So those are the essential questions for an artist. So you must have that, uh, you must have that in mind, I believe, to authentically be uh engaged in your craft and to uh and then how that works out. And you are just if you're if love Jesus, or as St. Augustine said, love God and then do as you please. Love Jesus and then paint what you see, uh uh write music for what you hear. That's that's the most that's again, that's being authentic, and that's and that's thinking deeper about uh why you're here. And uh uh I have a I have a great book called Um Um Um Spiritual Lives Spiritual Lives of the Great Composers. All of them have again have a theology of why they're here. Uh Stravinsky said, I don't I don't really create music, I just do what God has already given me and I put it out there. So if Stravinsky has that, uh you need to have you need to have some theology also, or else you're just gonna waft and wander. Um, these are um even David Bowie um uh said, you know, I feel like finding the finding music and finding those, that's a search for God. So you need to have that first and foremost in your mind as an artist while you're here.
SPEAKER_02:And the other group, uh, you have nailed the two sides, Jimmy. It's exactly what it is. The other group is the people who seem so called by God that they don't understand the culture they're living in. They don't care enough about the people. They don't want to be excellent at what they do to really have an impact. The irony of Hollywood is you can't just be a Christian and walk in and change people's lives. The way you, the way you have any impact here as a believer is to build relationships, to gain respect, to be a coworker, to be excellent at what you do, so that people will then listen to what you have to say. But we can't be bad professionals or not professionals at all and think people are going to stop and go, oh yes, you have something to tell me about God. We have to live holistically. We have to be great at what we do, or at least striving to be. And we have to bring God in authentically into our life. If we are either extreme, I believe we become useless. And the Christians that come out here with a holier than thou attitude and aren't really seeking to be a part of the process of an artist, they're not going to gain the opportunities that they need to really have an impact spiritually. And they are not only neutral, they're a detriment to the rest of us who are trying to walk authentically every day.
SPEAKER_01:You know, Matthew 13, 34 says, Jesus used stories when he talked to people. In fact, he didn't tell them anything without using a story. And then Mark, it says the same verse, and but then it says at the end of that verse, it says, it says, and when he was alone with his disciples, he went back and explained the meaning to them. So when Jesus told stories, he didn't even, he wasn't even out there with the story. He let the story be, there was a mystery to it, like, what is this about? He wasn't hitting them over the head with scripture in that sense. And that's the kind of stories we have to tell. And if you're not telling stories like that, then I believe you're not being, you're not, you're not following the model of Jesus because his stories were like, I don't really get it. What is it? What does that story mean? I think that's the kind of stories we need to tell.
SPEAKER_02:Now, there is there are niche markets that have been there, will always be there, and they are legitimate. The faith-based written market, interestingly, is doing a lot more crossover now. We're we're about 20 years behind Christian music. Amy Grant was the first big crossover.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:She was a Christian singer who was then starting to be accepted in the secular world. We're seeing that more with films right now, but it's fine to make Christian films. There is a market for that. If you want to make a martial arts film, there is a market for that.
SPEAKER_01:I believe you should make horror films because if you make horror films, you can just put evil right out there and you can put Jesus right out there with a somebody put on the cross and you can just say, Jesus, get behind me and you can kill demons or zombies or whatever.
SPEAKER_02:Yes, and that's a bitch market. But we feel like we are here to reach a secular market where we integrate our faith with our skills and our gifts. We love people along the way, and we offer what we have when we sense God leading us to someone who wants to hear. And oftentimes it's people just coming up to us and saying, Why are you different? You know, it's it's not that scary or hard. We also pray for people, and when you pray for people, get ready because it is not going to stay bland. Believe me, that's not going to happen. So the people that are too spiritually minded, we really want them to integrate being all things to all people as well. And people that are too just just get my career going minded, we want them to integrate more of their faith into it. Otherwise, I think they're missing the full abundant life that God has for us.
James Duke:Absolutely. Absolutely. I I think also it comes down to I I think often of just humility. It's like both both groups need humility.
SPEAKER_02:Good point.
James Duke:They come with a there's a level of arrogance that they come into it. And it's like, you know, scripture talks a lot about humility because the choice is either you either humble yourself or God humbles you. And I would much like scripture says, you know, either embrace humility or be humiliated. And I would much rather embrace humility. Yeah. And and and and so for both groups, I think they can go look, there's a there's there's more to this. There's more to this, and there's a lot more to learn. I want to wrap up our time. This has been one of my favorites. I love you guys. It's just such a joy to best you've ever done.
SPEAKER_01:This is the best you've ever had.
SPEAKER_02:Okay, you just how longer is it?
James Duke:That time, yeah. I I uh this is this is at least in the top 20, and I think I've recorded 21 of these, so it's only um, but uh I I do I love you guys to death. Um, I think the world of you, you've been such a blessing to me personally, you've been such a blessing to so many people, you've been such a blessing to act one and so many people um that have gone through act one. And I just want to thank you guys, and I want to do something a little different, a little special. Typically, I close my podcast by by praying for um um our our guests, and but the reason why I do that is because at uh uh we do that at act one, and it's it's something that we feel is very important because so many people come and give of themselves for act one, and and and we feel like the the very least we can do is lift them up um to God. And so, but I was wondering if before I pray for you guys, I was wondering uh since I have um such prayer warriors here, the leader of the Hollywood prayer ministry, so much of your passion has been praying for others. I wonder if we could take just a few minutes. Would you guys pray for my audience? Pray for those who are listening to this podcast. We've got professionals, I could tell you, I won't mention names, but I've been contacted by some people that are significantly high up in the industry who have found us through this podcast and listened regularly. I've obviously been contacted by people who are amateurs who are just starting out. So there's a wide range of people who listen to this podcast, who are Christians, who are um struggling day to day, uh, trying to figure out how to live life working in this business. Karen and Jim, would you guys just take the next couple of minutes? Would you would you pray for them? And whenever they listen to this, they might they might download this podcast and listen to it a year from now, but it But you and I, the three of us know that God stands outside of time and space. And I just uh was wondering if if if as we pray, um let the those who listen, let them know that they're being prayed for uh wherever they are uh when they listen. I I know this is getting very uh TBN-ish. I'm not trying to get a lot of Christian television here. So I'm not trying to freak out, I'm not trying to freak out some people here, but I do believe in the power of prayer. And would you guys just lead us in a prayer for our audience right now?
SPEAKER_03:Sure.
SPEAKER_01:Lord, I pray that the light of God will illuminate the eyes of uh the imagination of this audience, that they will be flooded with light until they experience the full revelation of the hope of his calling. That is the that is the glorious inheritance, Lord, that he has in each one for each one of those who follow him. Lord, um we are a desperate people and we need you desperately. So I pray that you will flood our imaginations, Lord, that you will uh give us insight to love others more deeply, to care, uh, to be followers of you, Lord, to be filled with the Holy Spirit, to trust you uh with an undying, uh unending love. Lord, thank you that that we love one another because you first loved us. So help us to do that in every possible way, Lord.
SPEAKER_02:Lord, I thank you for the people listening and I ask that those who are struggling, that they will never give up, never surrender from the great movie of Galaxy Quest, that they will know that you have brought them here as a as a honored, respected remnant of Christians who you believe are strong enough to make it as professionals, to grow in our faith, to build relationships and to live the abundant life. That's that's a privilege that I pray that the audience who are here to do that will experience. And Lord, for the people that have been here a long time and have reached a level that is beyond what they ever imagined, would they keep their eyes on you? Would they know it all comes from you? Would they realize that they still need each other, maybe even more than they did before, and that they need you desperately? And that's right where you want them, in a place where their arms and head and eyes are up to you, and you can then do your work in a mighty way. And Lord, I ask for the people who are listening to this that really struggle with Hollywood, that they will know you are here, you are active, you are moving, and you want more strong believers here. Let no one stop a young Christian from coming to Hollywood. Let no one stop praying for someone who's already here, and let everybody listening to this podcast embrace this place as a beautiful place of storytellers who are touching the world. And I ask that you shift hearts right now, that you open up minds, that you expand people's territory to really believe that being in Hollywood, being in entertainment, being in any city around the world of a creative community pleases you and that you are glad and thrilled that we are a part of it. So, Lord, do your work. Let us all come together in unity to recognize that wherever we are, whatever we're doing, we need you. Let us be excited about being storytellers and let us encourage others who want to be storytellers. And Lord, I also pray that if there are people here that are struggling with all the hardship around them, that you would give them an unoffendable heart. I pray that as believers, we will take nothing personally. We will not let things get us, but we realize that it's part of a bigger world that we are just a part of and that you're the one ultimately in control. So we thank you for these people. We ask that they are filled up and encouraged and empowered today. And we pray this in Jesus' name. Amen.
James Duke:Heavenly Father, um, thank you for uh Jim and Karen and thank you, God, for just their heart for you. Um thank you for the way you have bound them together as a couple and as a family. Um, thank you, God, for the way you have shown your light through them. God, we fully acknowledge that there are good times in life and there are hard times in life. And yet we also acknowledge that you are God throughout all of those. And Jim and Karen have continued to shout your name from the rooftop and do their very best to live according to uh your promises and your uh commands, God, through all those times. And in doing so, they've been such a blessing to so many other people. And we thank you for that, God. We thank you for the lives that they've touched and impacted. And I pray, God, now for even the more lives that they will touch and impact, just through living a life that's pleasing and honored to you, um putting you first. Um and God, it's just a beautiful thing to see uh uh a couple and a family not only survive in this business but thrive. And God, we I just pray a blessing upon their marriage. I pray a blessing upon their family and their kids' lives. God, I pray that you would uh bless their careers. Um God, I pray that you would give them expand their influence um in what they do and who they work with. God, I pray that you would give them, even this week, you'd give them brand new opportunities to meet with and encourage people who maybe don't yet know you. And God, uh just thank you for this time together. Thank you for the blessing that they have been to Act One over the years as well. And uh, we love you, God. And we pray this in Jesus' name in your promise as we stand. Amen. Thank you for listening to the Act One podcast, celebrating over 20 years as the premier training program for Christians in Hollywood. Act One is a Christian community of entertainment industry professionals who train and equip storytellers to create works of truth, goodness, and beauty. The Act One program is a division of Master Media International. To financially support the mission of Act One or to learn more about our programs, visit us online at Act One Program.com. And to learn more about the work of Master Media, go to MasterMedia.com.